How to CEO: The Path to $10M (Pete Caputa, Databox Edition)

I'd say that the. Probably the biggest challenge over the last, not so much this past year, but like the two previous years before, is that I was still doing such a variety of things. I was like an individual contributor in some ways, still a manager in some ways, definitely directing certain departments because we lacked somebody that had enough experience or confidence.

Just looking back at your LinkedIn profile, I realized you had advised so many companies as well as being early at HubSpot.

Yeah.

Drift, PandaDoc, you got partner stack. Those are all names.

Yeah.

And high on the list in lots of Revop stacks.

Yeah, I think I could have done that like for a living if I had wanted to. Based on HubSpot success and the program that I built there, the reseller program that I built there, a lot of people would inquire with me to say, hey, could you give us advice? I still get one. Still get on. I had a call yesterday with somebody really successful software company that's struggling to figure out how to do channel sales. And so most of those companies, that's what I was advising was like, how do you build out your partner programs?

Yeah. So when you joined, I think you told me when you joined HubSpot sub 10 people. Is that what you told me?

15. Yeah, I was 15.

And you. Was it just like a junior sales role?

There was only one type of sales role at the time, but yes, I was an individual contributor. I carried a quota and closed deals. Yeah, closed deals, yeah, exactly. On the. On calls, as many hours a day as I could. Yeah, it was all inbound, inside phone sales.

Nice. And then built it up. Climb the ranks.

Rang the bell.

Stock Exchange.

Yes. All that stuff. Yeah. Went from individual contributor to manager to director to vp. I was the first one to do that in New York. Most of the other VPs were hired in as VPs and did pretty well, obviously. Also very lucky and fortunate to join and have my experiences align really well with where the company was going. But yeah, quite a ride. Got to go to the listing. The New York Stock Exchange watched the Bell get run from the floor. So it was exciting ride. Looking back now, I realize how special it was. Yeah.

And this is just from my earliest days when I would talk with CEOs about the ride when they had some good success. A lot of people would comment on how the company. There would be a lot of turnover. Like a lot of times the early employees, the company, they couldn't mature fast enough to take on some of the positions that maybe the founders would want them to take. But you were able to ride that. I'm wondering how many of your fellow employees were able to share that journey with you and rise as the company rose a lot.

HubSpot had a culture of promoting with from within. And so there were quite a few people that started either as individual contributor, our managers and rose through the ranks especially I'd say for the first six years, I think we. We were still a small, scrappy startup. We were selling to SMBs, which wasn't cool back then. And I don't think recruiting exact like experienced executives would have actually been that easy for them. I wasn't the one doing it, but for the most part we just built this culture of come in and it's pretty. I think the right word's egalitarian, like you're basically going to do if you do well and you'll have opportunities if you do well. There was also still a very, I say, an entrepreneurial approach to running the business, where we were given opportunities to just do things that we thought would make sense for the business. And if it worked, we were given the opportunity to explain why it worked and how you could do it even better if you had more resources. I was one of the first ones to do that at HubSpot where we, Brian used to say, go from like nights and weekends project to alpha to beta to built into the business. And so when I started the partner program, I was just an individual rep and I realized that I could turn some of these marketing agencies into resellers and help them a lot in a significant way as we did. And so I just started doing that as part of my job and they were a little worried about it actually. At first I was told to stop doing it by some people, but then the numbers really started to look amazing. I was doing significantly higher productivity than the rest of the sales people who weren't doing that. And. And then I was invited, then I was invited to say, hey, you must be doing something right over there. Can you come and explain it and tell us how you maybe do more of it and all that. And so through a series of presentations, eventually I was put into a role where it became an alpha project where I was like, all right, we just want you to do this exclusively and we're going to stop sending you inbound leads from regular companies and you're only going to work with agencies. And if you can make that work, then we'll think about how do we add more resources to it to grow it further. So it was an entrepreneurial place, basically.

That is super interesting. We didn't go over that last time. So this is our second conversation about this because the first one had some technical glitches and we've been fighting those. But I think that's really interesting because I meet so many founders who really want to be able to do things like that with their employees. And I've also been in situations where the company would do that but then they wouldn't. It just wouldn't continue. And the contributor gets bored and leaves.

Right? Yeah. We had this system set up where every quarter for any of those programs there would be a review. So I would put together a presentation on what we did, what our numbers were, why I think things are working out where we're struggling. And that was my opportunity to say, hey, I need this part of the org to do things a little differently or hey, I need this resource if you want me to continue growing this or hey, I have a problem and I don't know how to solve it and I could use your help. And so there was these meet review meetings. All the VPs would be there sometimes in the early days Brian and Dharmesh would show up to those meetings and, and we, that would be the opportunity to just continue on and have engagement and support from the rest of the management team in the org.

That's fascinating. Did so who made the decisions about those resource allocations? Or was it just once you showed other groups, hey, we're getting these results if we could just have X, Y and Z from you, yeah, we can get these other results. And they just leaned in. Or was it there was an early.

Days, it was Brian making most budget decisions. Brian Halligan was a CEO so if we wanted to add headcount somewhere we'd have to get his buy in. He was, it was pretty easy to convince him to add salespeople. In fact, at some point during the program they came to me and said, hey, can we add 20 salespeople next year to this program? I'm like, I have no freaking idea. But we could try. And so like that. As long as salespeople were being added, it generally wasn't, it wasn't pushed back on because it wasn't that HubSpot didn't have access to resources. We raised a shit ton of money along the way from these venture capital firms but. But we needed to make sure there was an ROI on that and that one was an easy one. If we could stack reps and they could continue at the same productivity, then that's a no brainer decision.

Yeah, it's such an Interesting story to me, HubSpot, because they started in a space I was originally in around intranets and internal collaboration and yeah, ended up just highly specializing that.

Yes.

Into the platform in so many ways, which I think is interesting. I can geek out on that kind of stuff.

Yeah, totally. Yeah. The first iteration of HubSpot was just like this amalgamation of different tools that were, I wouldn't say popular, but like clear growth trajectory. And Intranet was one of them. In my job, like way back, I implemented an intranet, so I understand the technology there too. But once HubSpot started like pitching that what they had built to other people, they realized that for small businesses, the internal communication wasn't as big a deal. It was much more of like, how do you get new customers? And so that pushed them to focus more in on SEO and lead capture and content marketing and content management stuff.

That is, it's a, it's such a fun story. At Databox, when you joined Databox, you join. I think you joined immediately as CEO or did you join?

I did, yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

How was your role different? Or did you perceive it as different when you stepped in? Or did you feel like I'm going to come do what I do? What was the difference?

Yeah, well, I had started before I joined HubSpot. I had started a software company with a bunch of buddies. I was mid-20s, so we didn't know what the hell we were doing at all, but. But I wasn't afraid to be to lead something. Built a lot of confidence at HubSpot in my knowledge of building SaaS companies specifically. And. And then because of what HubSpot does with marketing and sales and the reputation they have there, I felt like I learned from the best and got a little mini MBA on sales, marketing, et cetera for SaaS companies. I was actually going to start something again. I started meeting with some venture capital firms and one of them, TJ Mahoney, said, hey, you got to meet Davaindia Gabriel, who's the founder, one of the founders of Databox. And I said, oh, I'm not really looking to join a company. And he said, I was looking for a CEO and some of the stuff that you're talking about doing is closely related to what they're doing. And so I ended up meeting with Davarin and. And rest is history. We ended up joining and. And I've been here eight years now.

Nice. Have you seen your role and what you do as a CEO? Has that changed from kind of day one to now because you guys have Gone drastically. Quite a revenue uptick.

So I can share a little numbers just to give us some context, but when I joined, we were doing about $50,000 of annual revenue. So like zero. Almost zero revenue. They had raised $3.8 million and built the founders ad and built out a management team after that. But their original kind of product idea and market selection just didn't scale. They had. Before they raised. They had made like a half a million dollars in that first year, but all those clients canceled basically, and they weren't able to really duplicate that success with other clients. And so they had just pivoted to focus more on working, helping small businesses. And. And that's when I connected with them. So now we're eight years in. Right. We're not the fastest growing software company in the world by any stretch, but we're doing 10 million in annual revenue. And we've been. We only raised an additional million and we have more than that in the bank. So we've basically been operating at cash flow. Break even the business and growing year over year. Grew about 20%. A little over 20% last year.

It's literally outstanding. It's four out of a thousand of the companies that make that first million.

Yeah, it never feels like it's enough, but I appreciate that.

True story. There's your data, Mr.

Box. I know. Just. Yeah, yeah, I've seen movies go faster. Of course, at HubSpot, fast. Of course. HubSpot raised $200 million in venture capital. So it's a little bit of a different approach. But yeah, no, we're both proud of what we've done, but also very anxious to grow, to increase our growth rate.

Has there been any correlation between the types of things you find yourself doing as CEO and maybe, okay, at 2 million, I was doing X, Y and Z. But at 5 million, I had to shift, and now at 10 million, yeah.

I feel like my job changes every six months, for sure. When I joined, I was an individual contributor, really, at Databox, like started over there. There were 12 team members, 11 of which were engineers or designers working on the product. And then one person working in support. One junior, pretty junior guy at the time. He's been with us now for eight years, so he's more senior now. But. But. So it was me and that guy, and we were like, all right, I got to figure this out. Luckily, because of my experience and contacts, HubSpot. With HubSpot, I was able to actually just make some sales directly from people that knew me already and trusted me. Part of the Reason why I joined is I spent some time before I joined just sharing what the product did and showing the product to some other, some potential customers. And so when I joined I knew I would be able to sell it at least to a small market of marketing agencies specifically. And I did sales. I did some, did the customer onboarding with help from my, from Tomi who was the first support guy and then, and then started doing marketing along the way. About six months in I think I hired two junior people, both of them like a year out of school, one in marketing, one to handle customer success and trained them of course and coached them to get them and build processes so that they could do what they were doing. The person I hired for to onboard customers is actually now our director of revenue operations. And so she's been with the company and grown with us quite a bit. And then I'd say about a year in I hired a salesperson, got myself out of that directly, ended up being somebody who was a top performer. HubSpot ended up joining Databox as their first salesperson. And now we're 100 or so people. Fast forward a few iterations and now I have a management team in place who all have strong expertise and experience in their functions. Some of which were with the company before I joined and we promoted him into that role and some of which including the VP of marketing, VP of sales, I just hired six and six months and then 12 months ago. So I've pulled myself out of the day to day. I still am very active in thought leadership type content marketing to help us grow the top of our funnel and engage our customers, engage our partners, gather feedback, et cetera. But for the most part I'm out of the day to day operations of the business in there, fully running their functions.

Yeah. And so today I don't remember if this was a post from today or I happened to see it today, but you're talking about the disappointment with how much content is AI generated.

Yeah.

What I really admire about your content is it does read like a business diary, which I saw in another.

Yeah, think about it.

It's not a, it's not so introspective that everybody can't relate.

Sure. Yeah. It's unique.

There's a unique aspect to it. Whereas here's what I'm observing, here's what I'm seeing with our clients. You really commit to that. That seems like a lot of.

Yeah, I just know I really enjoy it. I joke with my team and my wife. I'm like if, if, if I were Gonna do something else. I'm not. I have no plans to leave Databox Room. We're doing well and I'm having fun. But I would just. Right. I probably just find a few companies I really enjoy, really can try to evangelize for them. I really enjoy the idea of building an audience and gathering feedback and learning from that audience, and as I learn, sharing back those lessons. It's just a fun, iterative process for me. Yeah.

Yeah, it's really fun to watch. I didn't know we met through Max Trailer.

That's right.

By the way, was he part of your partner when you were at HubSpot? Did you meet him then?

Yeah, I knew Max then. He was a partner pretty early on. Not like really early, but like a few years in. He became a. He worked at a marketing agency that became a HubSpot partner, and he ran with it and became a HubSpot expert. And then he. For some reason, he got connected with our customer success team who was looking for help, trying to win back churned customers, canceled HubSpot customers. And he pitched them something and like, a program where he would basically help those customers build a success plan, Like a really thorough success plan. But he had a process for it that he built. And so he. We started sending him, like, churned customers, and he was saving them and bringing them back, and then they're like, hey, can you teach other agencies how to do this? He's like, the business, but maybe. So then he built a process, like a training process and program and certification program for other agencies to train them on how to do what he was doing, because it wasn't just useful for saving HubSpot customers, actually useful for helping new HubSpot customers have build a plan. So.

Yeah, I hadn't heard that part of the story before. That's really fun.

Yeah.

Okay. That. That. That took me off of three other interesting points. Oh, I was talking about the content.

Yeah.

I think. And I'm just going to call this out because for people who watch it, I talk with people that do it, and I feel like it does take time to find your voice and relax into it. You're one of the most approachable humans I've met, and I've met a ton, and I find I do gravitate toward the approachable folks. I meet so many people that are, like, less success than you have, whether it's with Databox or whatever. And they're. I don't know, man. They're like. They're acting like they own the world.

Yeah.

They're doing the. I don't know, it's a different vibe. Whereas you're delivering value. Yeah, there's a humility about how you deliver the value, I think, which is the unlock for delivering the value. Is it. Do you like, sit down and have time where you think about putting this out and it's tangential for me, but now I'm really.

No, it's almost like more of a compulsion or an addiction. Almost like as I go through my day or like when I'm in the shower, I'm thinking about something and actually wordsmithing posts in my head. And if I'm doing something else, I don't. I don't stop what I'm doing and do that, but I will jot down and come back to it. And then usually I'll have a lull between meetings or. Or I'll. Sometimes I'll take a day and go through my notes and like bang out a bunch of stuff. But. But no, it's much more of just like a compulsion that. To share.

I think it does go back. I don't remember who talks about this a lot, but there's a lot about writing gives you clarity of thought.

Yes.

And if you want to be a better leader, clarity of thought is one of the top skills.

Yeah, no, it definitely helps. As far as leading my team is. It's funny, the VP of Customer success said to me once, sometimes I don't learn about how you're thinking about something until I read your LinkedIn post. I'm like, I probably should change that up a little bit. But yeah, no, it definitely helps me communicate internally with clarity. Almost arrive at that clarity. Because if I just jump on a call with someone and start talking about it, I know they're not receiving everything that I'm trying to say. And I know I'm not getting it out as efficiently as I could.

So as you've been growing, whether it's through up through the ranks at HubSpot or here, as the CEO of a growing business, are there any frustrations that really stick out along the way? Gee, when we got to this number of people or this revenue, this thing really started to stress me out. We had to solve for that. And then at the next level, this other thing, are there kind of hallmark frustrations you've experienced?

Yeah, I feel like I live in a constant state of frustration. There's so many things in any business to try to solve. So, yeah, I think, you know, the initial thing was just like, can we find product market fit? And I'd say that maybe took us six months to a year, which I think is not so bad. But. But that was definitely a challenge in the early days. The next one was like, all right, now that we know this specific customer segment was works and would buy, like, how do we get in front of them? So figuring out the start of our marketing was really key and definitely a stressor. I'd say that the. Probably the biggest challenge over the last. Not so much this past year, but like the. The two previous years before, is that I was still doing such a variety of things. I was like an individual contributor in some ways, still a manager in some ways. Definitely directing certain departments because we lacked somebody that had enough experience or confidence to figure out that function.

Super common, by the way.

Yeah.

So that's when you're like 8 or.

9 million 7, probably. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

That really fits with what I see.

Is it?

Yeah, because at that point it's okay, can we hire. Is it time to hire somebody in. We don't have anybody right now, so I'm going to roll up this.

Yeah, that. It was like constantly, should I spend money on this individual contributor that I know I can move the needle, or should I go and order these three individual contributors that I can know, or should I hire somebody senior that can run it? And so I think it's really hard to make that financial decision to say, yeah, I'm going to spend a good amount of money building a management team or not.

I love to hear what you think the answer to that question is, though, around that inflection point.

What.

How did you solve for.

I wanted to. I didn't do one at a time. Like, I didn't do them all at the same time. We prioritized who we'd hire first. So the last two hires, both external hires, were VP marketing, VP of sales, of which I was, or at least heavily directing those functions up until I hired them. And I sequenced the marketing one first because I knew that if I didn't, I'd have a sales leader sitting there saying, what are we doing for marketing? I need more demand. And I'm not saying we have all that figured out that we can't know how to grow demand as fast as possible.

You did do marketing first?

Yeah, marketing was first. And I had a. I have a VP of Customer success. He's been with us for a long time. He started as a director here and he was actually running sales and service. And he did a great job for those first few years where we were really focused in on Being like a self serve, product led, growth type company. But as we have moved upstream a bit, we really needed to operate, operationalize more of our sales function in a more standard way. Like not just support focus, but also being a little more proactive, being more prescriptive, being more consultative. And so I knew that I needed at some point a sales leader, but it was more about like how urgent is that versus getting someone into run marketing. And so I now have somebody running sales and he's been here for five months and we're making progress in terms of where we want to go. But. But I think it was the right sequence, marketing and then sales.

I think that is really valuable for a lot of people because it's a debate that happens.

Yeah.

Inside of companies and you've got the sales background. I think it sounds like you augmented that with how you market and you've got a marketing background as well. But sales is maybe the thing you're known for.

Yeah.

At a, at a company that a lot of people think of as so marketing focused.

Yeah.

And then here you are with that expertise, being in the CEO led. That's those stages between a million and 7 million, as you said.

Yeah.

And so your perspective on it, which seems to have worked, it sounds like, is first I'll get marketing, then I'll get sales. And even though these are two things I'm comfortable doing, it's time let me bring in marketing first and then sales.

Yeah, yeah, no, exactly. There was things in marketing that we wanted to do that I didn't have expertise in too. Like we started spending a lot more on advertising and I had no expertise really in how to do that. I could guess and figure it out, but figured that we get faster by hiring some VP that knew that stuff and knew how to do that stuff. So. Yeah. But that's definitely the sequence we went. But it's not that we didn't have marketing. We had marketing. Oh, I get that.

Yeah. Nothing I should say.

Yeah. Everybody.

I think people know because you've got a great reputation, even if I wasn't aware of it until relatively recently.

Sure.

All my marketing friends were like, oh yeah, wow. I know.

Yeah.

So there's a presence. Obviously you can sell, obviously you can market. But the reason I'm harping on this is I think it's interesting because all of us as CEOs or founders, there's that moment of if I want this to grow, I've got to stop doing the work myself.

Yes. No, that was definitely thing. And I knew that I'VE always known that. But it just comes down to priorities and where to spend money, where not to spend money. And I think for us at least, we needed a large crew of individuals executing the plan in order to, in order to build this business. It's complex products, difficult to sell, difficult to market. And so bringing in the people doing the work was a little more important early on, I think bringing in the leaders to lead it and blessing and a curse that I could do it. And now I'm not saying I did it alone. There's other, there are other people on the team that did a lot of work, but, but we're at this stage at 10 million just felt like the right number. In SaaS land, they say that like when you're in 10 million, like you have real business, you're not going anywhere. You might not get to a hundred million, but you have a good chance of getting 100 million at that point. And it just felt like, all right, if we are serious about going to 100 million, we need to bring in some other people to at a minimum, just for bandwidth. Even in different experiences, even in professional.

Services, I've seen, I had a couple of clients, they've had a great run.

Yeah.

Getting from 0 to 50 million. Hundreds of millions.

Yeah.

But the thing that was, that seems different to me is the founders and or CEOs are intentional pulling themselves out of things and then riding. Riding maybe is the wrong word. But yeah, make banking that intentional leap. I'm not just going to be me with a hub of helpers. I need to create a leadership team and grow here.

Yeah, yeah, no, totally.

So I know you got a family, got a growing business. Do you have tips that you use, like when you. To find a balance between, oh my God, there's so much to be done and I have these other things going on and I want to make sure I'm making the biggest impact.

Yeah, this is a struggle. I think in a growing business, there's always the tendency to say, hey, we could be doing this too and this would help us grow. And there's probably a long list of things that we could do that would have an impact. There's no doubt about that. But I find that at our size, the more we try to do, the less we do it well. And we're sacrificing the, our ability to execute on anything by doing too many things. And so we're big advocates or big followers of kind of the OKR model where we try to identify the things that we can do in a year that will make everything else easier and focus as money as many resources on that those few things as opposed to trying to do everything. But we struggle, right? It's like we don't always hit the targets that we set for ourselves and then it's what else can we do? And we have this conversation all the time and, and it's really hard to stay focused or to avoid distraction I should say on other things that could work when you're doing those things. But what I find is when we do revisit the most important things and think through those things and how we can either recover from a missed target or, or even double down on what we've learned so far on that thing that like that is always a better use of time than asking ourselves what new thing could we do that might help us get where we want to go. So that OKR process has given us that kind of structure to say to decide on what those things are in the beginning of the year.

What is your number one goal for this year if you can share it?

Yeah, sure. Objective. I'm going to go with objective instead. Set a goal if that's okay. Percent yes, okay. I know you know the difference. Most people probably don't but with the objective, the thing that we are really focused in on is better attracting, serving, monetizing our mid market customers. That's the, our number one objective. What we found is that, that our best customers are in that mid market and there were a bunch of unmet needs that they were either living without or moving to another product or using another product alongside ours in order to satisfy. And so we made the big decision really about two years ago to start investigating this. And then this year we made the big decision to say this is going to be our big focus for the year is building out this new functionality that firmly puts us in the business intelligence software space where we are enabling our customers to do much more sophisticated analysis with our product. And so that's been our biggest focus. It allows us to increase our price, sell more of our higher end product, higher priced products allows us to make a more compelling pitch for our partners to resell our product because there's now stronger value and stronger implement, more implementation effort required. It makes, it certainly helps. It seems a little too early to tell but it seems to be helping with retention as well and then of course just expanding our market. So that is really our big focus is that and so the whole team is aligned around executing on that. Even before we launched the features we trained our entire CS and Sales team on database design and SQL and all other concepts that would help them understand how this stuff works. And then marketing did both customer research and positioning work around this and of course worked with the product team to do a big launch is our biggest, like the biggest effort we ever put behind a launch, which we just did about three weeks ago. And then of course product engineering working days and nights and overtime to really get it out. And then there's still work to be done. Like we know that launching it is the first step, but that's really, that's really where our biggest focus is. And that's what we would call an initiative. We use a modified version of OKRs called Objectives, Goals and initiatives. So the objective is get better, do better with the market. The goal related to that is is upgrade MRR and arpu, increasing our average revenue per customers. And then the initial one of the initiatives I should say is, is launching and rolling out and getting adoption of this new data sets feature we call it Nice.

And I believe I know what mid market is, but I hear a lot of different start to twist it. Where do you guys see mid market?

Yeah, good question. We've had this debate internally. I think the Official definitions like 100 to 500 employees or something like that, we've come, we're a little lower. Our sweet spot is like 25 to 250 employee companies. And so that we've debated should we call it medium sized businesses or mid market. But mid market kind of rolls off the tongue a little easier.

Right on. Yeah, I was just, I was to hear how people are thinking about it. Yeah. So actually the first time we recorded you had that was the day of the big launch and then we had yes. So now it's out. It's probably even better. I know you're developing, you've got a course on kind of your business OS that's coming out and you don't frame it necessarily that way. But yeah, tell us about that a little.

Yeah. What we've realized in working with small and mid sized businesses is that they don't generally follow much of an operating model on how they run their business, how they make decisions, how they connect their strategy to their plan, to their execution and because of that they fail to use our product effectively. And of course we have other customers that do use our product effectively and it's pretty easy to spot the patterns of things that they do. We've studied this like in a statistically relevant way and we can see there are certain habits that those companies have that the Companies that fail with our product or don't do well with our product don't have things like taking the time to really understand their customers, understand their competitive space in the market, and think through how they better differentiate themselves through their strategy. And, and then take that and say, all right, let's turn that into a plan that aligns with our goals, our financial goals in the company, and then get, let's get down to the things we're going to do, the initiatives we're going to do, and then have a cadence for reviewing what we've done, what we decided we were going to do, and how it's working, starting, stopping, continuing, coming up with new things, et cetera, based on data. Right. And like almost every one of those decisions should be informed to some degree by data, especially on the execution side. And so what I've been working on is a course. I hope to someday turn it into a book, but a course that, that does that. It helps people go from strategy to planning to execution, to adjusting their plan plan to building systems that help them repeat what's working and then ultimately so that they can scale their business. And when I say scale, I mean grow your revenue without growing your costs on a per unit basis at the same rate.

We call it profitable growth. Right. That's what we.

Yes, profitable growth. Yeah, that's. Yes. Yeah. I'm calling the course tentatively predictable scale. There's a bunch of functionality we've built in our building and the product that leverages AI and data science that helps people make some of these decisions. For example, we have a tool we're developing now. We've released a early version of it, but the next version is going to be awesome, where a user can go in, a customer can go in and say, here are my goals and then here are all the metrics that I think impact that goal in the business. So you could go to the revenue and you could work back all the way through retention and sales and marketing, et cetera, and see the relationship between those metrics and see how well they're correlated. And so that's one exercise that every business should do, which is really actually hard because you generally have all your data in different systems. Doing the math to figure out correlation is not straightforward. And so we're building this system which will automatically help people do that. And so we're building all these functions into either the planning process that we recommend or the execution process that we recommend for our customers to follow. And so it'll leverage data science and AI to help them make smarter decisions more quickly. So that's the genesis or the reason for us, one of the reasons for us to build out this methodology, this course.