Real Improvement Looks Nothing Like You Think

All right everyone, welcome to this, uh, exclusive Q&A with my friend and mentor Nick Peterson. I've shared with, uh, you— many of you, I have shared Nick's book Bumpers, and I know that some others of you, uh, have, have acquired that on your own. And Nick has been a very busy young man. He's released, I don't know, 27 books in the last couple of weeks, couple of months. I have, I have purchased every one that I have access to, and you'll find some of them in the Creative On Purpose Bookstore. I recommend them all highly, but the, the 4 that I go to, find myself going to the most frequently, are in the bookstore. You're welcome to, to look them up there. You can also just find Nick on Amazon. But I don't want to do too much preamble or too much introduction. If you, if you know Nick, then you know this is going to be a powerful session where you can ask him questions directly. I know you get a lot of his insight filtered through, through me in our community calls, but this is a chance to go right to the well and So Nick, I guess if you don't mind, maybe just a quick introduction of however you would introduce yourself to get us started. And then I'm just going to turn it over to the community. They are here to ask you as many questions as we can fit in in the next 55 minutes.

Wonderful. Excuse me, crazy dust storm. Yeah, I mean, Hopefully some people have actually read the books so that, you know, we know what we're talking about here. But I encourage you to ask questions because here's what I find. I did not write for a very long time. I didn't publish anything like in an archived evergreen fashion for a long time because the struggle is always the nuance. And I'm not a good enough writer to, to get all of the nuance, the, the relativity of it, you know, like it's relative and it's fractal and it depends, and it's very hard to get that all on paper in a linear way. So I encourage you to ask questions because, uh, one, there, there's always nuance, and two, it might help me figure out how to better articulate some of the things that I'm always wrestling with, uh So yeah, I'm hesitant to put things on paper most of the time for that reason. So this stuff is also— it's like, it's really good for me to have these conversations. So please ask away or give me feedback, and I'm here for it for 55 minutes.

I don't know if I may. I don't have a direct question in the sense of that I've read your material. I watched one video interview of you and Scott Perry. I don't remember when that was. It was must have been a recent one, um, with things. And, um, I think the question that I would have relates around— if you could reiterate, because I only heard it once, so I didn't hold it— um, the approach you take to satisfy the preference for reclusiveness with serving of the world, or doing— I don't know the language you have around it. Um, yeah, anything that comes up for you around that component. Thank you.

Speaking of nuance, um, yeah, I mean, there's, there's a lot. And so this is, this is the struggle, right, is that it's— you could go we could talk about this for 6 days. Um, there's a few things. There's one that— there's like, I, you know, everybody has kind of a different way of thinking about it in terms of, uh, you know, do you call it— you know, there's who you are, your disposition, and whether that you were born with it or whether it was bred into you or some combination. Uh, some people might call it a life path or karmic package, like your karma. Like, everybody just has a different Everybody is a different person and they're called to do things differently, right? And so part of like understanding yourself is really helpful. There's like, there's like, uh, there's personalities and there's dispositions, and we would say karmic packages, where you just come into this world and you were born to perform, right? That's not me. I'm guessing by your question it's probably not you. But they're born to perform. And sometimes it can be frustrating for people like me because it's like, really? That guy just plays a doctor on TV. He didn't go to medical school. But the guy that played doctor on TV inspired more kids to become doctors than any doctor did. And so it's just realizing everybody has these different roles, and whatever yours is, is necessary. As frustrating as it may be, as much as we're like, oh, that guy doesn't know as much as I do, he— people just like him because he's loud. Well, yeah, but that's his role, you know, like that, that, uh, because if I ran the world, and I'm guessing you, the message would never really get out there. It would only get out to the people that were seeking it, and that wouldn't be good. So one is like just fully embracing and doing the work to figure out like Who am I? What am I? Uh, so you don't try to be something you're not, if that makes sense. So that's the first one, is it's much easier to reconcile the, yes, I have a strong desire to help people, but also I really want to be alone. Is something wrong with me? No. That's step one. There's nothing wrong. That's just who I am. So then the question is, where do I fit in this big system? Uh, for me As an example, uh, I want to be recluse, but I have a very strong drive to help. And so what I do is I spend a lot of time with people— like Scott is a good example. If you know Laurel Portier, it's a good example. I have to identify, like, how can I help one? How can I train one? And that one will go train 10,000. So a lot of And I hope this is helping or answering your question. A lot of it is, yes, you can have an impact, remove suffering, and be a recluse if you pick your— choose your shots, you know, know where you fit. So what does that mean? That means on one side of me, I need some— I need a source, whether that's books, whether that's a mentor. Well, I need a source that continues to feed me what I need so I don't become delusional living in my own you know, like living in my mom's basement reading Reddit forums. Uh, so you need a lineage is really what it is. That there, there has to be a source, a mentor, a corner man, a, a stack of books or something that keeps you from becoming totally delusional. And then, uh, for me, on the other side of me, I need a megaphone. I need somebody that can take what I say and say it louder than I want to. And if you can see it, then you can give yourself permission to sit there and you can kind of see like, yes, okay, I'm still having the impact. Now, the thing to reconcile for me, which I've, I've already done this work, but for people like me, do I care if I get credit? And that's a whole nother thing to deal with, right? So that's Probably for most people, I'm guessing with your personality and with mine, is that's the real thing to wrestle with. Do I care if I get credit? Uh, and if yes, then you just have to measure, you have to see the trade-off and accept it. Okay, I do not want to go stand in front of 1,000 people. I don't want to, but I do want credit. Which one do you want more? And if you can make that decision which is why most people won't, because once you make that decision, you forfeit the right to complain about it. But that's, in my opinion, that's the process, is okay, who am I? Okay, that's me, that's my disposition. And unfortunately, we're zapped onto this planet, uh, sometimes with diametrically opposed or competing elements of our personality. I like— okay, can you recognize them, and can you at least choose Yeah, my headphones, whatever they want. Okay, I'm back. Um, so if you could recognize the competing elements of your disposition, your personality, it's like, oh God, that part of me doesn't like attention, but that part of me wants credit. Uh, fine, that's what it is. Can you at least choose which one is taking the wheel and when? Like, no, I don't want to be here, but I do want credit, so this part of me is taking the wheel for the next 2 hours while I'm up here on stage. And so that's the ongoing work for, uh, for, for people that, in my opinion, for people that prefer to be locked away in a closet by themselves but also have a lot to share and also want want to make sure that, uh, I don't care if I get credit, but there's no judgment to anybody that does. That's— if that's you, that's you. If you do care and you pretend like you don't care, all you're gonna— it's just gonna turn into resentment. So I think it's better to just, yeah, I care, I want people to know my name, or I don't want people to know my name, doesn't matter, as long as it's Uh, honest. Otherwise it will lead to resentment and, uh, it's a, it's a nightmare. So that's how I deal with it. It's just a series of trying to see things clearly, which I never do, but I try. And, uh, try to put myself in a position where I'm not blindsided by, you know, oh, how did that happen? It's more like, oh yes, I knew that was happening. Okay, now I, I can take responsibility for it and then I can decide whether the juice is worth the squeeze. Next time around. And you'll probably find a sweet spot. So hopefully that's helpful.

It more than helpful. Thank you. It was spot on in ways I didn't anticipate but needed to hear. Much appreciated it.

Yeah, of course.

Couple quick follow-ups for you, Bina. This book, Smaller, is my favorite of Nick's new releases. But the line on the back says it all: "If being humble hurts your positioning, you are not that good." And I probably need to just put that on a poster in my office. But the other one, and for everyone, like one of the ways that you can know thyself is by defining your non-negotiables, and Bumpers is a great resource. Or defining like all the things that you don't want and need to decide are just out of bounds. Because once you make that decision and keep your non-negotiables non-negotiable, things get real clear real fast. So just, uh, some places to start if you want to go further. Sandra, your hand is up. Come on down.

Hi, I'm going to start with— I didn't have a question for you, Nick, but you set it up when you started the session. But I'm going to have to excuse myself because your answer might be longer than I can allow. So I'm going to be off camera, but I'm listening in, and then we'll listen to the replay. So I'm sorry about the timing. When you were talking about having these ideas, I was in touch with Scott this morning because I'm doing some work with him too, uh, but you were talking about mulling. Like, uh, you addressed us and said that for, uh, us, if we have questions, just ask them because that helps you get clarity on how you're sharing the word of whatever it is you'd like to share. And so I'm a really good muller, and so I was just wondering if you could go through the process that you go through, or tips for everyone else when we're going through. So I get stuck in not necessarily perfection, but maybe in the sense that I would like to be able to share what I want to share in a way that would be the best well received by other people. What I'm struggling with now is having so many different groups of people in my audience.

Okay, so gift and a curse. That's a great question. I made a video about this years ago and the process has changed, but one of the reasons Uh, I would argue one of the reasons I'm in the position that I'm in is because of this process. Is, uh, like I said, I, I, at one point I realized on one side of me I need source, you know, uh, probably philosophical principle-based source of wisdom or truth. And on the other side of me I need megaphones. And I found myself uh, with a bunch of different audiences as well. And when I— when I rolled out my first mastermind, I had one rule. It was $36,000 a year, so it was a, you know, it was an expensive one. I had one rule: no two people do the same thing. So no two people in the same industry. So I had 44 people. I had a farmer in North Dakota, you know, somebody ran ads, one person worked at Ferrari. It was like, how many different ways can I put myself in a position where I have to say the same thing differently? And so that, as frustrating as it is, when it's like, okay, I got to write a book, but wait a minute, am I talking to the, the business owner? Am I talking to the, uh, I see the Chi Tai Chi, right? So right now I spend a lot of time And the source is my Grandmaster. But I cannot turn around and talk about medical qigong to a business owner audience. I mean, I can, but it's tough. And so it's frustrating, but it's also a gift. It's one of the reasons, uh, I prefer in person too. So To answer a question, my process is this: huh, that's interesting, here's a new concept, a new idea. First, can I apply it to my own life? Now the good news is I do a bunch of different stuff. I own a business, and I have businesses in different industries. I exercise, I do kung fu, I, I do all these things. So first, can I take this thing and apply it to all these different areas of my life? So already it's 5 different things. It appears to be 5 different things. It's one thing with 5 different expressions. Then I will go into groups, either somebody else's group or a group that I created, and I will try to articulate it in the context of that group, and I will fumble around like an idiot for the first however many weeks or months because it's not connecting. Uh, which I imagine is probably similar to what you do. And I just do that, or like, for an absurd amount of time. There's the— like, the frequency is incredibly high, the number of conversations is. And, uh, I run into the, why do you spend so much time with people for free? Charge what you're worth. It's like, no, no, no, this isn't for them. I hope they benefit from it, but this is for me. I'm trying to figure out the core root concept or principle Like, Bumpers is probably the best I've done at it, where— how do I say this in a way that it is immediately obvious to everyone? Because it didn't start out as, you can't win a race you don't want to be in. It started out as 42 different ways of trying to say the same damn thing. And so what I do is I talk to a ton of people And if possible, I'll take— here's a— we just did this, we were in Hawaii. Here's a medical qigong community, here's my business owner community, let's invite them both to Hawaii, right? And then we found activities that did nice, that didn't, uh, isolate any of them, right, or alienate any of them. And that whole time I was just trying to figure out how do I say this thing so they both get it. And that's like my process. It's just always— there's a root, and there is a root. If it's true, and I'm sure you know this, if it's true, it doesn't take a lot of words, uh, you don't need charts and graphs to prove it. If you can figure out how to say it in a certain way, it will become immediately obvious to everyone. And so that's my process, is just trying to figure out what is that thing, you know? How do I say this so it doesn't require the context? I don't have to meet them where they're at and use pre-wired ideas or language they already have or teach them a brand new language. It's like, what is the fundamental truth in this? And then how can I say it so it is immediately apparent to the listener or the reader. And that's like my never-ending struggle. So I don't know if that's helpful, but that's what I do.

It was very helpful, but I— and I had a quick follow-up question. So I know the thing, but it's a paragraph. So that's what Scott Perry's helping me with. What's your process for getting it to succinct, sticky. I guess just keep playing, keep talking.

Yeah, my process may be different than yours because I'm, I'm, uh, I orient very heavily toward function, and anybody that's trying to get it right, like trying to get it perfect, generally they orient more towards form. Uh, so what I'm gonna do And I do this, and I'm doing it right now, is I'm gonna say stuff and I'm gonna pause, and I'm waiting to see how it hits people's faces. So it's like, here's the paragraph, right? And then you go, right? And then you pause, and then you wait. And I'm— I just keep going until I can tell you the one-liners. Can't win a race you don't want to be in. Raise the floor. Like, all these one-liners everybody quotes. Was a byproduct of that. It's like, I got my sentence, I got a whole book I want to try to tell you about, but can I— especially in a room, or Zoom's fine— but can I roll it out very slowly, pause long enough to look at everybody's face and hear what they say? Like, because in that paragraph there's one sentence that probably hits people harder than the rest. So if you hit them with a paragraph, all you're going to know is, did this paragraph move them or not? It's like you can't isolate the variables or the concepts. It's like you threw the kitchen sink at it and it worked, but you don't know why. So I'm going to isolate the variables as much as possible, and, uh, I'm not going to ask Claude and I'm not going to read it myself. I'm going to look at other people's face. I'm going to see how they react. Uh, you can't win a race you don't want to be in. I was queuing up this big monologue, and it was Jeff Moore, and he brain dumped on me, and he asked me for advice. I said, well, Jeff— he said, what do you think? I said, well, I think you can't win a race you don't want to be in. And I stopped, I took a big breath, and I got ready to hit him with my soapbox. And before I could, he said, holy fuck, and he hung up. He called me back like 2 days later. He was like, that was it, man, we need to do a podcast episode. That was— so I wouldn't have found that one line had I just bulldozed him with my, you know, monologue. So it's a lot of pauses, it's a lot of throwing it out there, uh, and just seeing how people respond. That's my process. Um, and when I can get one or two lines that make somebody hang up the phone on me and then ask for a podcast interview, it's like, okay, there's a keeper. Not the one I would have thought, by the way, because it's— they're deceptively simple. Everyone is like a— because it's a, it's a fundamental truth, it's deceptively simple. Uh, and those are the ones I remember too when I read other people. I always remember You know, I'll read all— I'll read one book 10 times and I remember 2 lines out of it. It's like, but those 2 lines were the things that were immediately evident to me and they hit me really hard, and it doesn't even matter what the paragraphs around them said. So you take your— I would take your paragraph, uh, and I would figure out which— you got a paragraph, 2 paragraphs, a page, 10 pages, uh, the stress test is which lines have earned their way onto that page, and you have to test each one. Many of those words don't earn their place. I even took this transcript because I'm rambling right now. Most of these words would not belong there. It's just rambling. And so that's what you want to find, is which, which words, which sentences, which paragraphs have not earned their place by being, uh, self-evident to the reader. And if it's not self-evident to the reader, that's okay. Like, if you write a textbook about medical qigong, it's not going to be self-evident, but that's because it's very niche. You're not— you, you already know your audience. It's either self-evident or you should know your audience, in which case you were— it's what's self-evident to them. So That's kind of the thought. The hardest part is, uh, trying to make an argument to a population or trying to get something across to a population that is not self-evident, because then you got to figure out, oh my God, what are all the prerequisite things they need? And so back to anytime you're going, okay, here's the thing, I would ask Rocky Road, I would ask, uh, Here's, here's what I want to say. What are the prerequisite— like, what's the base knowledge? What prerequisites would they have to understand in order for this paragraph to be self-evident? Well, they would need to know this. And sometimes we don't do that work because we take it for granted. The base knowledge disconnect is so great. So there's a lot of work. Okay, but they'd have to understand this. And if they have to understand this in order to— for what you're about to say to be self-evident, then you've really already defined your audience. That's, that's who you're speaking to.

Unless—

I mean, that's who that paragraph's for. So it's just a— it's really hard to communicate in an archived way, archived evergreen way. Books, courses, YouTube videos, it's much harder than, uh, if you actually care about the person receiving the message and learning something from it, it's much harder than the internet marketers are going to make you think it is. Uh, it is for me anyway. So that's my process. I test every line and I do it like this. Like, I jump on groups of people and I say crazy shit, and it's like, okay, that landed, okay, that hit. And then 3 days later I get tagged in a post. It's like, oh God, you remembered that? I don't remember saying that. But that tells me what sticks with other people, and I'm here to do that, right? Not necessarily shove my thoughts down their throat, but give them— give you as much as I can. And then, uh, hopefully something sticks, and that will inform me as to, like, uh, how to reach more people in a way that's not— not how to get more views, but how to actually reach more people. Yeah, so that's my—

Sandra had to hop off. She just, just dropped a thank you, Nick.

Awesome. Well, I hope that was helpful. That's, uh, my process is not the sexy one, just so everybody knows. Everybody always comes asking for the process, and then it's like, really? I don't want to do all that. It's like, I know, me neither.

Uh, one of Nick's other idea viruses is the process is the shortcut. You all have heard me quote that at you many times, becoming the thing by doing the thing. Quick follow-up on that, Nick, if like that whole— this whole process that you just shared with us is, you know, part of the idea of engaging the field that you've shared before. And but there is this posture that you need to develop, I think, around patience and humility and curiosity and willingness to try things that might not work so that you can engineer situations where the epiphanies or the one-liners will kind of, you know, avail themselves or reveal themselves. My guess is you probably have had that. There's a lot of default programming that allowed you to do that from an early age. But for those that maybe don't have that, that in their, you know, personality or their temperament, what are, what are some ways that people can be half a shade braver when it comes to trying to articulate things in a way that— and, and hold that tension and that space for letting the room reveal what's helpful and useful?

Oh God, there's so many things. Okay, so, uh, isn't it funny, every time it's like a simple question, it's never a simple question. A few things. One, on the bravery— there is no— all right, what people call bravery, I think I talked about this last time, and I got this from Jordan Peterson, uh, life is terrifying. If you're here, it's terrifying. It's like, it's in our DNA to worry about staying alive. Like, we're just terrified. There's anxiety, there's all this stuff. So really, in my opinion, it's about being able to zoom out, decide what matters most to you, and picking what you're afraid of. Are you more afraid of the response you might get from the room right now, or more afraid of what happens if you don't? Pick. Thank you. It's not get over the fear. That's a tall ask for a human. But pick your fear. If you don't do this, then you risk having a message that never gets iterated enough to hit. If you do this, you're embarrassed for a minute, but then it's over. And so they're both scary. It's just our brain tends to get hijacked by the more immediate threat. So I think a lot of it is just picking your fear, like which one is more Which one's scarier to me? Doing the same damn thing 5 years from now that I'm doing right now, banging my head up against the wall, or this room of people going, huh, that guy was an idiot. Uh, the latter is way scarier walking into the room, but in a state of sobriety, the former sounds way worse to me. So I think that's part of it, is just picking— you're getting really clear. I'm like, what am I trying to accomplish? Uh, because maybe making an ass of yourself in front of the room isn't worth it. I don't know, that might be the thing you should be more afraid of. But you can't make that decision if you don't get clarity on, on what, what the trade-off is. So I'm very big on— you're an adult, every one of you is an adult. Uh, if you can see the trade-off, you can make the trade-off, you can live with the consequences, you're good, you know. Um, And so that, that's part of it, is just that responsibility. The second one is, uh, in my experience and my understanding, is pretty much every negative emotion— fear, embarrassment, shame, guilt, uh, ego, you know, all these things— cannot coexist when with curiosity. So if you can find a way to stay in a state of like Obviously curiosity killed the cat. That's why. It's because all your survival impulses kind of get suppressed when you're like, ooh, what's this? What does this button do? You know, what happens if I put this in the light socket? And so, uh, can we stay in a state of curiosity? Can we be— that's probably the part of my personality that's been the most helpful in doing stuff that other people aren't always willing to do is I'm like hopelessly curious about everything. Uh, and not everybody is, but can you put yourself in a state of curiosity? Can you turn, uh, oh no, what if something bad happens into, huh, wonder what happens if I push this button? You know, like, can you just catch it and flip it into like, hmm, Well, I'll never know unless I do it. How would this message be received? What if people don't like it? No, no, no, don't worry about that. Be curious about whether people will like it or not. Then it's not about— you're not being dogmatic about people need to like this. It's a scientific process. What does science do? It forms a hypothesis and then it tries to figure out what actually happens. It doesn't form a hypothesis and then get depressed when they were wrong. That's not science, that's confirmation bias. And so it's actually a very scientific process to go, you know, I'm pretty sure people will like this, or I don't think people like this. There's your hypothesis, now test it. That's the curiosity piece, that's what makes science great. So once science stops being curious, it starts being dogmatic, it's not science anymore. And so you can turn your whole business growth journey into a scientific process. Form a hypothesis, test it. Hmm, that was interesting. Uh, did not expect that, huh? Well, now you're smarter and now you can just move forward. And it, it, that's just how that is. So, uh, those are the, the main things. Now I'll touch on this because the popular subject is totally my opinion, um, but AI, okay, AI is insane. I spent a lot of time with Claude lately. It's like, uh, you know, I was trying to save 30 minutes and I lost 4 days. So wait a minute, uh, this didn't do what I thought I was going to do. Uh, but it's fascinating and it's like super cool. Uh, AI. Here is the biggest advantage we have over AI for those that are worried about it, those who are looking, trying to look around the corner, and those that are like, oh, why would I even write If AI can write— well, first of all, AI writes like shit, but it'll get better. So why would I even write? Well, there's an advantage. So a few advantages. One, in-person connection like this. Uh, two, analog stuff. You know, like I look at Penny and she's got like a plaque in the background and like, hey, I can't do that. It can't give you— I got stuff in my background. So those are, those are small things, but the bigger thing is AI— I just wrote this in a letter, uh, ChatGPT, Claude, whatever— they know everything there is to know about the ocean. They know more about the ocean than any of us do, I guarantee it, but it's never been wet. And it knows everything about pain management, all the remedies, but it's never stubbed its own toe. There is no compassion. There cannot be compassion. It cannot learn. It can only learn what it is told, which means there's a spectrum of things that come through you.

You—

a lot of you have been there, probably all of you, but we've all met someone that's been through hell and back, and you can tell when you meet them, like, this person has experience. They may not be able to articulate it. Nobody can articulate this experience. Right, so AI will always be limited to how well it is prompted or how well somebody can articulate what they're supposed to learn, right? You are not. When you stub your toe, there are no words to explain that, so AI can never learn that, uh, which goes back to the, yeah, put it out there, be receptive, because you're going to pick up things in people's behavior, facial expression, feel, you know, some people are very intuitive and they feel energy. Like, that's all stuff that you can only— it's data you can only gather by putting it out there and be receptive to the response. And you'll never be able to articulate it fully. We've all had feelings where it's like, no matter what, I cannot— you just cannot articulate it. Words don't do it justice. Those are the things AI will never pick up on. And they can only be acquired through experience. And that includes putting something unfinished out there that sucks, getting a response, feeling a feeling, doing all of that. Uh, your— anything you make, that the product, whether that's writing, video, actual product experience, it will become distinct from your experience in a way AI never can. And that distinction, I believe, is going to become more and more, uh, important. So it's another, it's another hedge. It's like, if you don't put this stuff out there, you're not getting that data. And that is your advantage against the machines, is the stuff that cannot be spoken or cannot be articulated. It can only be seen, observed, felt.. And then, you know, when we feel something, we, we change our behavior. We may not even know why. And so, uh, it's a hedge. The more you put out there and the more feedback you get, not in writing, like verbal cues, visual cues, audible cues, you're going to pick up data that ChatGPT can't. And even if you tried to train it, you could not possibly come up with the words to effectively encapsulate everything you picked up. So the advantage is you doing stuff and being receptive enough to, uh, to recognize it, you know, like being receptive, staying in a state of receptivity. So it's a— it's another argument for doing the damn thing and doing it in a way where, uh, it's not perfect, it's not right, it's not— that's never going to happen. Um, so Scott Perry, I don't know if that answered your question, but that's kind of the, you know, pick your fear. And then I think engaging reality and being receptive to what it pushes back on you right now is the ultimate hedge against, uh, whatever machines may or may not be able to do in the near future.

Yeah, I think one of the things I— one of the very first things I heard you talk about is something that I have read in Stoic philosophy, which is that whole idea. I think you phrased it as have a conversation with death. But the idea, like, if you want to overcome your fear, imagine the privilege of speaking to yourself on the day that you die. And, you know, do you want to have a conversation about all the regrets, or do you want to have a conversation about all the moments that you actually took a chance on yourself and did the thing? Um, Bina, you got another question?

Yeah, um, a little unusual. Um, so the question relates to you, Nick, because I need to hear it, but it's what's already in your fields and in your mind that you haven't spoken yet that needs to be spoken. Thank you.

Say that. Was that— was there a question? Ask that question again.

What is it that's in the field of your mind while this has been going on that relates to what you're talking about here but actually hasn't been said? So the question is, what hasn't been said Okay, that is still present from within you.

So like what's percolating that, that— yeah, well, you know, you got to filter yourself, got to be audience aware. Uh, the actual The thing I would recommend, and, uh, it's too bad, uh, Sandra left because I think based on her name she's a tai chi person. Uh, this is what I believe is actually happening to everybody on all these calls, not just Scott Perry. Everybody is— something's missing and, uh, they're trying to do something to see or be seen or both. And that's it. I think it's all, all we're doing because we're seeking. We're humans, we're seeking creatures. We are trying to either see clearer and/or be seen. In other words, we're trying to turn the light on, right? Because when you turn the light on in a world that is very dark right now— what I mean, I don't mean it's dark and evil, uh, that might be the case, but, uh, there's not a lot of transparency, right? Like our governments, our friends, our— what the hell is going on? So, so we're kind of bumping around in the dark doing the best we can, and most of what we're doing is trying to turn the light on. So if you think about a flashlight— and I apologize that this is repetitive, but because I've said this before— but if you think about a flashlight, you go to a garage sale, you get one of those old Mag flashlights, you're like, ah, cool, I'm gonna turn this light on. Uh, the switch is broken, the bulb is broken, right? And so no energy is going to run through this until you restore the form. And so it's like restoration first. You got to restore the form, and only when the form is restored can energy run through it. And then you got to put the batteries in. So this is actually through Father, Son, Holy Ghost, uh, Jing, Shi, Shen, matter, energy, consciousness, same thing said over and over again. And, uh, so then you gotta get the battery in, and then only when the, the structure is solid and energy can run through it and you have new batteries can turn the light on. And I believe that's what we're all trying to do in our own way. And so the thing to look at is generally energy won't run through— money is energy, money is chi if you're into that kind of thing. So if you're going to look at how do I— even if you just— how do I get more money to run through this thing, how do I get more juice through this thing, you got to look at the structure. And I think a lot of people tend to get really caught up in the, uh, batteries and the light And it's, you know, a lot of these— the stuff even we're talking about, it's like, yeah, frequency. You just got to do the damn thing over and over and over and restore and solidify the structure, because energy won't run through it if the structure can't support it. You run too much amp— you run too many amps through a light bulb that's not designed to support it, it just explodes. And if there's not enough energy running through, it just flickers. And so it's It's really a balance. You asked, by the way, so this is what you get. It's really a balance of, uh, running energy through form. And people generally get stuck on the energetics or the philosophy or the astro— astrology and neglect the form because it's hard, it sucks, it's uncomfortable. Um, more fun to be all woo-woo and shit. Uh, and then on the other end, you have people that neglect the energy and kind of the Shen piece, the consciousness piece. They're very Newtonian. If I can't see it, touch it, feel it, measure it, it doesn't exist. So, uh, that's always in my mind though when I'm talking to groups. It's like, okay, because that's a heavy, heavy conversation. And so it's like, restore the structure. That might be your body. It— if you're sitting here in pain, your knees hurt and you can't stand up, uh, it— the best you can do for your business is restore your body because energy can't run through a system that is structurally unsound. And so even if you make money, you won't be able to hold it, you know. And then your business is a structure. It's like, are the systems there? These— the automations work? Like, there's a structure. Uh, so structure, it's the whole game, whether you're building a business, building a family, trying to get in better shape, improve your health. It's how do we balance running energy through form. Too much energy will blow the thing up, not enough and it won't run. And so you want that much energy to run through it, that much money to run through it, you better restore the form enough to handle it. And that could be your body, it could be your business, it could be your systems, it could be your team. But like, what is the shape of this thing and can it handle the energy? So all these questions, to me, I re-translate, they're always questions about people trying to run a certain amount of energy through something, whether that's influence, which is energy, whether that's money, whether that's actually energy. Like, I'm fucking tired and I wish I had more energy. Uh, so it's always a question of, okay, they're trying to balance energy and form. Because we've all been— if you're here, I can almost guarantee you've been there. You've all been there where it was balanced, the amount of energy running and the form, and it's like, boom, the light was on. That's your inspiration when you're taking a shower. It's like, oh, I get it. Like you tapped into something else. That was the moment it all intersected and said, aha, the right amount of energy is running through a properly structured form. Boom, lights on. And then we're like, oh, that's a good idea. And then it got really greedy, and now it's like, oh crap, we're trying to run more energy through this thing than it can support. And so you get kind of cut off from You know, boom, turn the light off and now you can't see again. And yesterday everybody saw you and now they don't. What the hell? It's because the light— the light's flickering and the light turned off. So weird analogy. Um, I wrote a book on it. It is on Amazon, but it's like way out there. So that's what's actually going on in my head, and that usually goes unsaid. It's a good question.

Which, which book is that? I'm, I'm out there, so this is all, this is all my language. We're good.

Let me find it. I don't remember what I call my books. It's called Turn the Light On or Become the Flame.

I think that one is actually free. You can— is that the one that's downloadable as a PDF on your Substack, Nick?

Uh, yeah, yeah. I also, I published it as a Substack essay, but it was like way too long to be a Substack article, so I published on Amazon. Yeah, it's called Turn the Light On or Become the Flame: The Oldest Answer to the Newest Fear. And it's basically, oh no, AI, what do I do? Turn the light on. Oh no, internal combustion engine, what do I do? Turn the light on. No, no, dinosaurs are back. Cool, turn the light on. Like, it's the same answer to everything. Whatever the fear is, uh, turn the light on, uh, because if you can't see, you're screwed anyway. Oh, there you go. Scott's got a copy. So that's always the— what's actually running through my head since you're out there, what's actually running through my head is, and I apologize for it to everyone else because we can make this chaos and order, you know, it's yin-yang theory. It's what stage of yin-yang theory are we in? There's 5 stages. So you can see like, okay, Where's this relationship relative to everything else? Is it sufficient— or sorry, is it, uh, deficient or excess? The energy running through. So you're looking, okay, is it chaos, order, masculine, feminine, tall, short? Is it, uh, excessive or deficient? And in Chinese medicine, it would be like what, differentiation of, uh, uh, whatever. And, uh And then you're looking at the 5, you know, everything kind of presents as 5. Chinese medicine, you're going to probably learn 5 element theory, but there's 5. I don't care what you call them, there's 5 personality types, you know, 5 love languages, 5 vowels, it's always 5. And so then you go, okay, what, which of these 5 have been balanced? And then I just translate it to whatever the context of the room— that's what's actually happening in my head. It's like, okay, we're balancing energy through form. Is it deficient or excess? Yin or yang. You could say chaos or order, right? Is it excessively ordered? Is it deficiently ordered? You don't have to say yin yang. Is it excessively chaotic? Is it, uh, what happens for the recluse is, uh, efficient chaos or excessive order. Growth stops because you just boom, haha, I'm safe, but there's no more growth. And so it's, it's like the same forever. Then I gotta figure out like, what group am I talking to and how do I translate in their terms? But it's the same freaking formula every time: chaos, order, excess, deficient, where. Okay, now how do I say it in this person's parlance? Uh, understanding that we're all just trying— if you run a business, if you're trying to grow anything uh, like I said, a family relationship, you're trying to balance energy through form. And if you're trying to grow it, you're trying to increase the energy that runs through it. And so then it's, you know, how do you keep the form, uh, first restored? Restorative first, restore first, longevity second, sustainable cultivation third. All right, so that's the— that's what's actually happening in my head when I'm having conversations. But I can't say that because I'll get 3 likes on Facebook and then, uh, nobody will ever talk to me again. So we got to go tactical.

Any, uh, any, any brave souls Wanna cue— tee up the last question? Go ahead, Alice.

Um, it's a couple of questions if I can. One quick one is on the books. Um, I've got quite a lot of them as well. Um, I think they're— I've really enjoyed them. Um, has, has it turned out as you expected? Like, um, can you just tell me a little bit more about the books and, and that process? And were you expecting anything, or— uh, yeah, that's a good question because it was— it did not turn out like I expected, I'll tell you that right now. Uh, but the main reason— and again, it's never the sexy answer, nobody ever— don't ever do what I do. Because I can almost guarantee you won't have the same reasons that I had. Uh, I started putting books out because I am moving towards, uh, I don't know, this would be the third time I've retired now. Uh, so I have a very strong desire to help. And I'm gonna be honest, most of the stuff that people find most helpful that I've spent the most time on, I never— excuse my language— I never want to fucking talk about it again. And so it's like, what do you do? You either take the time, suck it up, spend— commit another year or two to archiving it all so it exists for posterity, or throw it away and move on. And I wrestled with it. And so, uh, because it's almost like I'll just throw it away, I'll just give, you know, somebody my Google Drive and maybe they'll do something with it. Uh, and just the way it all happened led me to, okay, I'm gonna take a year and I'm gonna do everything I can to make this as available as possible. And whether people like it or not, don't care. Well, you know, it's just, it's— I feel a very strong obligation, uh, to— so the books are the stuff that I think had to be archived and evergreen. My intent was to write maybe two And through the process of really going, okay, but this isn't for me, this is for other people, and going through and saying, God, this isn't one book, it would be irresponsible to make this one book, like, this is, this is like 8 books, uh, you know, it's like, it was like, goddamn it, this is the worst, uh, but I made the commitment. So I think I published 13 books in like March or April, uh, but it really— my, my plan was for it to be like 2, and I just couldn't. It's like, okay, well, I made the commitment to do this, and I said I would do it right, so I can't go the lazy route. Um, that said, so I just put them out there. I didn't tell anybody really, like, I just started putting them out there, uh, I was gonna not put a bunch of them on Amazon. I just, I just wrote them and I gave them to like my apprentice and said, here, do something with this, you know, share this knowledge if it's useful to you. And then I got a lot of pressure from them. They were like, you have to publish this. Like, Come Home was the, was the one I was never going to publish. It's like, you have to publish this. And so I published it, uh, and what happened is I'd never really spent time— I think it's Amazon— I've never really spent time Okay, so I did this— publish all the books, and I put out one teaser saying this is what I do now. Not explicitly, it's the Gray Wolf book. It's like I'm kind of retiring from the 'let me help you with your business' and I'm going into the 'let's turn the light on like a woo-woo crazy person.' Uh, so the Gray Wolf book was kind of the introductory introduction to like, hey, uh, so I put the Gray Wolf book out and I made an impossible funnel. The back page says, go here if you want to learn more, and you go there, and then it says, uh, enter your email, I'll send you one email, and if you reply to that email, I'll give you the next step. It's like a ridiculous funnel that nobody would ever build. Uh, so I published a Gray Wolf book, I put that page up, and, uh, in 2 days we generated $26 grand from a book I didn't tell anybody about. And an impossible— it was like, okay, what the hell? Where did this come from? And so I started watching, and it's like, Amazon is very powerful. So Amazon is— I've always known it's a powerful search engine, um, but it's, it's more powerful than I had thought. And so I, I put everything on Amazon for one reason specifically. It wasn't even to archive it. It was— I looked at the distribution. I said, look, if I want to send this to someone, it's going to cost me this much to print it, it's going to cost me this much to ship it, and if they don't get it, I got to deal with tracking numbers and stuff. Amazon can print it, ship it, and deal with tracking numbers for cheaper than I can even print it. So Amazon, for me, I was just using it as my distribution center. I was planning on, oh cool, you want this book? I'll send it to them. That, that's why my Amazon prices are like $5. It's as low as they'll set me. Uh, so I was just using Amazon for my own distribution, not for it all. What surprised me is, uh, I'll just pop in and it'll be like 300 books sold today. It's like, where the hell are these people coming from? So, uh, way exceeded my expectations. It did something I didn't expect it to do. Uh, so it kind of— we actually build— not a lot of it's live, but we're actually building, uh, our world with Substack and Amazon as the two primary acquisition marketing channels. And I would not have expected that. Like, I certainly didn't go into it thinking that would be the case. Uh, so yeah, it's been interesting. Uh, I find that one of the most, one of the most surprising things for Amazon, for those of you— because we kind of had to talk about, do you care if you get credit? Uh, the books that do the best and that people talk about the most are the ones that do not have my name on the COVID That was an interesting— people talk about it. It's like, you know, you never think about it But I was like, what the f— take my name off the COVID you know? And I didn't think that would be something people noticed, but they do. Like, I get comments all the time, I really like this book, I actually bought it because the author didn't put his name on it, never seen that before. And so it's like learning all kinds of crazy stuff, but I only learned that because I was mostly just curious what would happen. We're back to curiosity again. It's like, what happens if I don't put my name on this book? Hmm. Uh, so you'll see if you go to my Amazon profile, probably a third, maybe half the books don't have my name on the COVID And, uh, it works better because it's just so alarming. Like, people notice what's missing, which I would not have counted on. Oh, that's my Amazon journey. All right, folks, sorry, one more. Through the books, because you, you are quite about behavior change and changing that behavior and that awareness, like through, through the books. So from Come Home, I really noticed that there was quite a bit of distraction going on in my, my life, that that's what came from me. But through, through the books, has, has there been like, um, a change that's come about you that's maybe hit, hit home somewhere, or hit, hit somewhere that you've decided that there's a next? Uh, yeah, it's a really tough one. It's like, write a book about what you truly believe. And then measure yourself against that book and you're gonna hate yourself, you know? Like, oh shit, like, I'm, I'm violating this in the book about it. Oh my God. And so there's a lot of that. There was a lot of, oh, and then you got to go like, wait, do I really— like, smaller is the best example. I know Scott Perry held it up where it's like, uh, You know, I think if you have to build up your own positioning, your product's not good enough. And in the, like, the paragraph before I said that, I was like, well, I have a friend named Joe Polish. Like, oh my God, the paragraph before I said this, I violated it.

Ah.

And so it's like, yeah, I think there's a lot of, uh, you write a book and you put everything you have into it, it's going to hold up a mirror. And that mirror sucks. So, uh, my behavior changed from my books. I don't know if anybody else did, but it did force me to go, shit, I'm publishing this and, uh, I'm gonna say this and somebody's gonna read this and be sitting next to me and watch me violate what I said in this book. Uh-oh. Uh, so I either got to change what I say in this book or I got to change my behavior. And it is like line by line, paragraph by paragraph, like which thing is true. And, uh, so yeah, the book— the books changed too. I certainly said, you know, I really thought I believed this, but obviously I don't. And so it was like, change the book. Oh God, nope, change my behavior. Oh nope, my behavior is not going to change. Change the book again. Uh, so it's a pretty good, you know, mentor yourself, you know, you turn the mirror on yourself or turn the spotlight on yourself. Um, so it was hard though. It was like, you know, like smaller. It was like, fuck this book, I'm not publishing this, this book sucks. But I only felt that way because it really made me see myself. And so, uh, yeah, it, it certainly changed my behavior and it certainly challenged some of the things that, uh, I say out loud because it's like, wait a minute I just saw that I don't actually, I don't actually believe this because I don't behave this way. So, uh, why do I keep saying it? And so it's that whole journey, uh, but it's tough. It's tough because it threatens your— you learn this is how you market yourself, and then you're sitting here going, oh my God, for me to actually do what I say, I'd have to stop marketing myself. And then there's the Oh no, no, there is a way to market yourself. That's a lot, but it's like just this whole, uh, journey of, okay, well, how do I actually get what I want and adhere to the things I believe to be true? Uh, maybe the things I believe to be true are delusional. I have to, I have to consider that too. And so that's kind of the, you know, the jump from even Bumpers to Come Home is a pretty significant if you've read them both, they're pretty good. Like, just didn't register. It's like, whoa, this is different. It's like, yeah, well, I fought with this one. Bumpers I wrote in a couple hours. Uh, Come Home I fought with, and you know, it was a little melancholy after I wrote it because it was like, goddamn, this book. Uh, so yeah, the whole process and the forcing function— this is going on Amazon, it's getting printed. I can't go in, you know, Substack I can delete or I can go in and I can edit. Uh, once that book ships from Amazon, you have that copy. I can't go edit your copy. So I think it's a good practice. It's probably not going to make anyone a lot of money in the short term directly, but I, uh, I find that the more you can align your behavior with who you really are, it the money tends to flow from some random-ass place you never would have thought of. Uh, so I have a high level of trust in that, but it won't be from Amazon, won't be on royalties, and it won't be on the links in the back of the book. Uh, so I think it's worth it. I think it's great, but I would never recommend it because if I recommend it and you do it, you're gonna hate me.

Yeah, we definitely have to find ways to play our game on our terms, uh, which is— we'll be meeting again tomorrow. I'm gonna— we're gonna talk about another concept that I learned from Nick, the clarity, purpose, collapse time, uh, and we'll be talking about a lot of the things that Nick has talked about here. So Nick, I really appreciate you taking time to talk with everyone today. Nick has indicated that he would be open to doing this again sometime. So between now and then, I am going to recommend that everyone pick up a book of his, and let's, uh, let's come in with some informed, specific questions so that we can get the answers that we need to succeed. Uh, any, any final words, Nick, to wrap it up and take us home?

Hmm, I mean, that was a lot. That was a lot. So I mean, just, uh, I'll, I'll end with this because I just wrote a letter. Uh, I'm relaunching the direct mail newsletter, and it was, it was this. It was the— we just spent an hour and 7 minutes talking about, you know, philosophical stuff, some principal stuff, and Uh, I just think it's important to, to remember that if you, if you take this philosophical— cool, three treasures is what we call it, jing shi shen, turn the light on, all that crap— if you cannot pull it down to reality and use it to improve your life or, uh, the life of the people that matter to you, it's, it's useless. And so it's just like, cool, if any— if you disagree or agree or you're interested in anything that we talked about, I would implore you to go, okay, but how can I apply this to my life? And if you can't, disregard it for now, come back to it later. Uh, that's my biggest— like, the biggest takeaway is, oh wow, that's so interesting and cool, I'm glad it's interesting. Or no, that's— I hate it. Cool. Uh, hate it, it doesn't matter. Can you use it right now to make your life better? And if not, forget about it. You'll hear it again, you know, I say the same shit over and over and over. Uh, that's the practice I would pick up immediately.

Yeah, we spent a lot of time talking about philosophy and principles in the weekly calls. And keep— keeping your philosophy on the ground is really great advice and a great place for us to wrap this up. So thank you again, Nick, and, uh, we'll look forward to seeing everybody on the call tomorrow.

Thanks.

Wonderful. Thank you.