EP 489 – Property And Casualty Insurance Pitfalls with Jason Byrd

Foreign.

This is the no Closer show where you get the latest developments in distressed note investing and learn the secrets of how you can control millions of dollars worth of property for pennies on the dollar. Get educated and entertained by someone who has closed thousands of deals and lives to support you in achieving the same. Now here's your host, CEO of We Close notes, Scott Carson. Good morning, good afternoon, good evening everybody. Welcome to this episode of the Note Closure show. As always, Scott Carson, your host to be here and got a special treat on this episode of the podcast out to everybody out in Note nation, all our listeners domestically and internationally. And I am honored and excited to have my oldest friend and a distinguished attorney who is just an amazing guy done some amazing things as well in his life. And he's the host of amazing and hot new podcast called the Bird Chronicles as well. Join us all the way from from Beaumont, Texas, the one, the only, the man, the Myth, the legend, Mr. Jason Byrd.

Well, thanks for having me, Scott. That's quite an auspicious introduction. It's a nice seeing anything anybody said about me. Long, long time. So I appreciate it. It's been a long time since I've been anybody's treat, but from a world Internet famous guy like you, I'll take it, bud.

Oh, come on now. One of the things that Jason and I have been friends since before the summer of our fourth grade year. Right, Jason?

We were about nine. Yeah, nine years old.

Nine years old. Yeah, exactly. We both small town, Ingleside, Texas. We're Ingle dinks from Ingleside, as we like to say. There's about 3,500 people were there. My dad owned the local hardware store, Ingleside Hardware. Your family owned the local car lot, Bird Automotive. And who knew that this small kid comes skipping into the hardware store to buy some nuts and washers and talking trash. Still be friends to this day. Golly, it's hard to believe, what, 34 years ago?

Yeah, it's been something like that. Man, we're getting old. We're getting old.

Definitely. So why don't you share a little bit about kind of what you do and what you're doing. You're kind of your main gig out there.

Yeah, no, as you. Thanks, Scott. I'm a lawyer. Obviously you introduced me that way. And I've been a lawyer for I guess this is my 18th year, so I guess it's gonna stick. Most of the work I do is I've heard you had lawyers on and I'm talking about some legal issues. My practice doesn't particularly tailor play into a lot of what you do. A lot of your work's on the business side, on the back end. And I like to say I grade those guys papers. So whenever there's a problem, that's when I get involved. And so I do a lot of litigation. It's hard to pigeonhole my practice. I call it commercial litigation. But within that there's a broad spectrum of things that we do. I've always done a lot of insurance litigation and what I call first party. So just real simply got first party claims and third party. I'll give you an example of a third party claim. Let's say you're driving your Honda and you crash into me and I'm, I have to sue you. Now I deal with your insurance company, but that's on a third party basis. That is, it's your insurance company. First party claim is, let's say I have my own insurance company and I have my own claim and I make claim and I'm not happy with the outcome or they don't treat me fairly or whatnot. And so most of my practice insurance wise, involves all lines, but involves first party claims. I like that particularly for a variety of reasons. Number one, this is oversimplifying but generally in a third party context, insurance company doesn't have to treat you fair. They owe you no duties, they can lie to you, they can do whatever on a first party basis you paid for that product, they have to treat you fair. And so when they don't, the avenues available under common law and under the statutory structure, at least in Texas and not every state, but most states allows for a little more leverage, some leverage points. So we've got that and then do other things. I call it fighting with the government. And that's pretty broad. Most people's got a view of, well, the government does something, I can use legal process to fix it. Not always that easy. Typically the government operates under this not thought. But under the structure of sovereign immunity that goes back to the English system and the king, you know, it means the king can do no wrong. And that still applies today. The government's immune from anything unless they say they're not. And most notably, those are constitutional issues. One big one we're dealing with right now is are some imminent domain cases. So as a government, I can't come take your property unless I have a public reason to do so. And if I do so, I have to pay you fairly, you know, and that harkens back to taxing colonists for tea. And like that some people on t and not giving them representation and things like that. So we deal with that. And then sometimes there's other constitutional issues that deprive people of life, liberty, ability, happiness. I actually have a pretty interesting case going right now in one of those where I've got a. It turns out I have a client who was sexually assaulted by a police officer. Deputy. And as it has come out, this ain't his first rodeo.

Wow.

Yeah. And since we kind of got a little notoriety on the case and a little bit of news coverage locally, I know it's over a dozen other victims come forward and contacted us, man. And then just to add to the story, he's been this deputy for seven, eight, nine years. He worked as a prison guard before and a preacher on the side as well. His previous coworkers, employee and employers in both the church in the prison contacted me. He's like, let me. I got a story to tell you.

Oh, my goodness.

Unfortunately, I think the guy's been on a tear for a while. You know, we'll fight it out in federal court and go from there. So. So a little bit of that. And then I've gotten to where I don't handle as much volume as I used to and so a little more selective. So I've got a lot of business disputes that just fall under commercial litigation that I do for people I like or people I want to help or things like that. And then a little bit of personal injury, but not much. It tends to be fairly significant situations and not a high volume at a cocktail party. That's a long answer. Usually I define it by what I don't do. I don't do criminal law, and I do do family law. And that helps because at the cocktail party, everybody wants to ask you about their divorce or their child support or, hey, I got this ticket, or some kind of crap. And I just, man, I do this all day. I don't want to talk about your problem. Frankly, my knowledge of it is I got some buddies who do it. Or I remember that 20 years ago on the bar exam. But I'm not fighting over your china or your visitation. Don't call me man. And I can do it. But that's the flip of it, too, is if people are like, well, I really want you to handle this. I said, well, bring me $50,000 and I'll look at it like I'm crazy. I'm like, I'm not joking. And if I'm going to have to do something, I really don't want to do you're going to have to pay up front. And when that's over, you have to bring some more. And that usually quells most of people's interest. Isn't that terrible?

No, it's not. But one of the things that I love about that is you've grown your firm and you've kind of got to the point where, hey, I want to focus on my bread and butter, I want to focus on the stuff and I want to help people. I'm glad to help people. When you had me on your podcast a few weeks back, you talked about that, hey, if you had a friend, something like that, it's in your realm. You're glad to, hey, let's sit down, let's talk, let's see if there's something that makes sense and we'll go from there. As long as it's kind of in your wheelhouse. But you don't want to be the do all be all to everybody because you've worked your butt off, done some amazing things and let's focus on what we can't. Our sweet spot is and stick to that versus trying to be a jack of all trades attorney, right?

Well, it's the same in your industry. And frankly, life is general. I can't be all things to all people. And once I realized that trying to do that, then things are better. I've got a much smaller firm now. I mean I got as big as we had about nine lawyers at one point and probably 20 staff. And that's from starting on your own with just you. And that's it then. Okay. And a part time receptionist. It's a big difference. Overhead monster. Because that's the flip of it too. If I have good people, good lawyers, good paralegals, those aren't low paid jobs. That's a big just monthly nut. And I made good money and it was great. I probably make about 80% of the money now, but I have a lot less trauma and I'm good with that.

Grown kids are growing up. They're all at camp right now there in the summertime there for you.

I have not missing them yet. They've been gone about a week, week and a half. I'm really jealous actually. You and I didn't know this existed. When we were kids. We were fighting at the police station or running the railroad tracks on my scooter or golf cart or go kart. I had this go kart that was fast as hell but so unreliable. And Scott was a big kid. I mean he wasn't as he's put on a little weight. We all have with age. Me, too, but he was just a big kid at 9 or 10, and he was the only one who could start that damn go kart from all.

The lawns that you and I mowed.

Oh, yeah, man. That's why, man, I got close. Scott and I had to run down there and get him, and we'd go kart around. Now they're in the boys, they're at Camp Stewart, and my daughter is at heart of the hills. And these are camps that are not far, not close, but not a lot closer to you than they are. Me out in Hunt, Texas, if you know where that is, just west of Kerrville, you know, near the headwaters of the Guadalupe. And, man, it's just really cool out there. They ride horses and involved in archery and riflery and camping and fishing and swimming in the river and singing Kumbaya and all that kinds of stuff there for a month. So they're spoiled. Yes, but it's a great opportunity because a lot of varsity kids, they don't see that anymore, and I think it's good for them to be out there. And they don't have cell phones, they don't have iPads. If they want something like that, they read a book or we leave them stationary and they write a letter. And that's lost on a lot of people today. And I think it's important. It's part of the human condition. All this technology is great, but this is not something that's. I think we won't, as humans, catch up with what it all really means until after we're way gone. We're not evolutionari tied in to use it quite yet. I don't think so. It makes a lot of things better, and it makes a lot of things harder. I know for me, I have to really put my blinders up, and it's just information overflow.

Oh, yeah.

I like to learn. I like to hear new stuff, but then I can become overwhelmed at a moment's notice almost. I mean, it just. It's overwhelmed. So.

Totally agree that you got to turn that off. It's healthy to turn it off. You know, it's put away. And sometimes it's funny, too. I've seen the joke where you've got four or five kids in a circle and they're all on their phones and they're all texting each other versus having a conversation on that stuff.

I've seen it live in person. So go figure. I talk a little trash on technology here, but then over Here we're talking to you the Internet on a podcast.

Exactly. It's come a long way from us running down the street. And yes, you did hear correctly. Jason and I one time got in a fight and a scrap in front of the police station at Ingleside. And the cop comes out and is like, what the hell are you doing? After Jason threw his bike on top of me and vice versa. And I think I threw a rock at you. Small town has changed a little bit there these days. We've been locked up for sure. In juvenile hall or something like that, versus just getting a scolding and a warning because they knew our parents.

Yeah. We didn't even call our folks. They threatened us, but that scared us. You know, I was scared of the police back then. Now I sue them. Go figure. Thank you for laughing, because it was a terrible joke. But we had some respect for them. And just the fact of them taking our names and our parents numbers, we kept checking in every day, hey, they called your mom. They called your mom. So we lived through it. We lived through it and we made it. And here we are. Right?

And, yeah, Jason went off to valedictorian class, went off to Texas A and M, graduated there.

Since we were in the same high school class. I was a valedictorian. Scott was not.

I was not the valedictorian. No, I was not valedictorian. I was in the top 25% of the graduating class. And you had a full ride to A and M. I had a full academic and athletic scholarship for East Texas State back in the day. And you went on to Texas Tech and got your law degree from the Red Raiders out there.

Are you working?

Are you mentoring anybody? Attorneys and stuff like that? Are you seeing or keep up with kind of what's going on? Law schools and people graduating and things.

Like that, or not so much with the young students because it's a little tough unless you have some kind of entree to somebody. There's not a law school in my community. There's a few in Houston, but that's 90 miles away.

Right.

And so unless I already have some type of relationship with someone, but that doesn't mean I'm open for it. My mom carried some kid from church in here the other day and wanted me to talk to him about law school and this and that. And that part of it's a little hard for me because it feels like another life ago. I've been out of college over 20 years. It's over 20 years ago when I was taken 25 years ago almost when I was taking the LSAT and doing all that. And I have had no reason to keep up with it. So I'm not probably the best mentor there, I know for. I write a lot of letters of recommendation, A and M for good kids around here. And I stayed tied in at A and M a little bit. We set up a scholarship about five years ago there. Just kind of give back to kids, because without people doing that for me, I could have gone to school or would have been a much different situation. And so I go. In fact, I was there about three weeks ago, deal with the foundation a little bit. I don't do much with tech. That's just kind of where I went to school. Plus, it's in the middle of freaking nowhere. Lubbock, Texas. I'll say this, it was one of the better places I've ever lived, simply because kind of just the personality of the community, the people, good people out there. But I attribute it to somewhat of an island mentality. You're just so isolated. You're in this basic desert that's isolated from the rest of humanity, and you're kind of all in it together. But it was good out there. There are some younger lawyers than me here in my community that I've gotten to be friends with. Not many, but one or two here and there that I try to help out. And I don't try and tell them what to do or how to do things, because part of the beauty is figuring it out yourself. But I try to be, if they need a sounding board to do that. But to tell you, I don't hang out with a lot of lawyers in my free time, kind of on purpose. Not that lawyers are bad people, but so many of them, like, in any industry, probably caught in the rat race. And they talk about work just gratuitously to talk about it. Right. You mentioned my podcast. That's kind of part of my podcast is, yeah, I'm a lawyer and I know what I'm doing and I feel like I'm pretty good at it, but I'm not defined by that.

Exactly.

And so to my lawyer buddies that it's. If you want to talk about your case and you're like, hey, I got a question, or, hey, what do you think? Or give me a. I'm happy to do that all day long. Right. But it's going to run your mouth about some case. Like, I don't want to hear that. I've got a filing cabinet full of them, too. Do your job. And I Think some of that too is just how we're trained. You send me law school and it's kind of a viper pit, just they get you geared that way. And maybe I'd be better if I was more like that, but I can't be solely concentrated on. Here's what I do for my professional life. I probably like fishing a lot more than lawyer.

That's what I was gonna say. You do spend time fishing and hanging with the kids, but you've also got a. If I remember correct, you've got a rental portfolio too, there in Beaumont too. Some rental real estate investment stuff that you're dealing with too. And so you've got a great mixed bag of things outside of just being an attorney. You said you're an attorney, but it doesn't define you.

Yeah. You know, the problem with that is I say I like fishing, for example, and other stuff, but I feels like I never do it, you know, I'm always working. Hell, I got a big. Me and my best buddy, we got a big boat down in Galveston. I hadn't been on the son of a Gun in over a year, guys. 54 foot hatters just sitting there, you know, Geez. So when you guys get ready to go fishing, let me know though.

I will.

We actually got it coming out of the water. We're gonna have to do a bottom job on it because it's just been sitting.

Yeah.

But this fall we're ready to run. That's kind of my favorite time to go offshore because your weather's more reliable and fishing's pretty good.

Exactly. And we have been fishing quite a few times. Gigged a lot of fish, fished a lot of, caught a lot of flounder, redfish, stuff like that. Drank a lot of cold beer.

Now we've got that little cabin down at the beach. And I surf fish a lot when I just kind of. It's a throw down just because it's easy. You can work it as hard or as little as you want. Get after it or not. Yeah.

Now take us back a little bit because I got somebody asked a question here online. How would you. If you're dealing with an insurance company because we deal with them all day long on either claims on. Especially like this time of year with a storm, trying to file a claim against roofing, or especially with what we're doing in the debt space of putting insurance on it, not being able to see the interior of the property on a no deal and then foreclosing, coming inside to see stuff. What's the best way if you wanted to fight what you're paying for coverage, but maybe they just decide to not do it. Is there any tips or solutions you would give the listeners out there when they're having to start a fight with their insurance company?

Yeah, absolutely. First off, it's easy for me to say over here in the ivory tower, but you need to know the product you're getting. Yep. And I see it across all sophistication levels. When you're talking to that insurance agent, what are you really keying into? You're keying into that premium number. You're keying into that price and how it fits in whatever your model is and how you. And so just be careful. And you know, it's not universal, but the lower the premium, the most likely the least amount of coverage. And particularly when they send you over the. Y' all probably do it this way. I do it too. It's where they email you over the E sign stuff. E sign documents at the back. Be wary of what you're signing because you're signing endorsements that exclude certain coverages. And those coverages may not be important to you or your business model. Just may or may not be. Just know what you're excluding because typically those endorsements take out big chunks of coverage for only a few dollars. I see it a lot, and this is more in the consumer market, but I say I'll give you an example as the animal liability. So forever most homeowners policies had an animal liability coverage and then they got to where? Well, you know, we don't really want to do this, but we'll do it. And we'll only exclude it if it's a pit bull. Then they got to where? Well, it's. If it's a pit bull, it's a German shepherd, it's a chow, it's a, you know, just all kinds of stuff. Then we're excluding it. And then now I see a lot of policies that they're just not going to cover it. And you got to be careful with that. But more, I would think your audience is a little more geared to the investment market. So as opposed to the consumer. My home properties. And so one thing to just consider is how the coverage works. Okay. Typically we saw the end of it in our careers, but you're not going to see it in your market very often anymore. Is it used to be what called on Property and Casualty all risk policies. Most of the policies they sold were all risk. And what I mean by that is they generally say we cover this property against all risks except for here's the exclusions and they would exclude terrorism or riot or whatever, whatever they put in there. And those are generally pretty inclusive type policies because you start from the baseline of everything's covered unless it falls into one of these little niches. Well, that's changed. I would think that type of, generally that concept of all risk with most of your listeners is just not something that's going to fit into their price model to make money because you can still get it, but it's just going to be prohibitively expensive. So on your property and casualty, everybody's going to have named payroll coverage and on the name payroll policy that the difference is they say, well, here are the things that are covered. Now they still have all the exclusionary language like before, but I'm only going to cover this, I'm only going to cover this. Now with respect to what are the real risks for the investor with respect to insurance, your number one in your historical risk is fire. Most of these policies are going to cover fire. So you're probably, you're safe there so long as you're not the one who burnt the place down or you know.

You didn't go through and drive a barbecue in the dining room.

Right. They don't allow arson and things like that. Now general negligence, they still allow for. I mean if you, but if you do something that could look at like intentional. Yeah, so that's good. There's two areas where I would think your folks that listen to you and are in this, I say no game, but you know what I mean, the real estate investment loosely, the real risk and the insurance issues they're going to see on property and casualty are probably going to be number one, wind related. And that's where the folks, you all need to spend a little bit of time looking at these policies and working with an agent who's knowledgeable. And if you're not sure, ask somebody else. And I've seen it particularly in the last few years on the commercial policies. They're getting really, really tight on what they're allowing for and what they're not. I'll give you a great example. One you're seeing is on your metal roofs, if any of your commercial buildings have these metal roofs, you have some endorsements that most of the major carriers were adding that disallow for marring, scratching, damage, but they're using it very broadly and as a sore. So. And there's a couple of endorsements floating out there that some are tighter than others. Okay. I like the ones that are a little more open because then I can work with them.

Right.

I've got a client actually right now and he's got property everywhere, but he's got some pretty big structures outside of San Antonio and big hail swarm comes through and his roofs are beat to hell. His issue with it most likely is, I would think is he's a real estate investor. He's built these places, he's kind of mixed in with other pools and basically he's going to hold them five to eight years and he's going to flip them. The roofs generally are performing. I mean, there's a few leaks here and there, but they look terrible. I mean they're really, really, really beat to hell. He got a new policy right before this, didn't really pay much attention to it, blah, blah, blah. And he's got this exclusionary language that the company saying we're not paying you for it. Well, you say big deal. Well, to replace those roofs, it's a million dollars. It's a million dollars of roofs. And it's not because it's fancy roof, it's just a big place. Yeah, right. Several buildings. And so now he's left with over probably a couple hundred dollar savings that his agent just slapped it in there and he didn't really talk about it, didn't really look at it, that now he's going to take the loss at some point unless I can basically weasel some coverage for him. And the loss may not be a million dollars at the sale, but it may cost them half a million or 4,000. And it's one of these things too. If you're gonna buy that big of that big a property, if the roof alone cost is a million dollars, I mean someone's gonna boots on the ground, go look at that place. Yeah. What's the first thing you're gonna tell you? Well, they're gonna beat you up saying, hey man, this roof's all beat to hell. And whether it is or it isn't, it sure looks like it. Right? Yeah, that's the truth. So that you're gonna have to deal with it. And so I tell people, I use we have a case of litigation just sitting right. Folks get fired up, especially when it's your business and people are, you feel wrong. So look, you got to start stop worrying about what's right, what's true. When we go down to the courthouse, it's not about what's true, it's about what looks true. And it's the same thing. Well, that roof might be performing, but sure as hell doesn't look like it. Well, you're taking a hit if you want to sell it. So that's the first area and that's general and obviously, I mean answer questions about this all the time. So I'm always happy if you got people with specific questions I'm happy to answer. I'm not going to charge them anything. I'm happy to point them in the right direction. The second area I would think your listeners that is note investor, real estate investor type folks need to watch is the water related coverage because those are the types of things that can small laws can really grow on you. And some of the investor type policies, depending on what state you're in and what form you're using, are pretty limited in the resulting damage. And I'm not saying you need to go get insurance that covers everything. You just need to know what you're working with.

Mm.

Just gotta know what you're working with. Because in some areas for some losses, if you're in the buy a bunch of beach houses in Galveston, I mean your wind coverage is gonna be crazy. It's not gonna be the same thing at your house in Austin and that's gonna affect your bottom line. You have to buy that one real cheap or you're gonna have to self insure or depending on what it is. You know, I've seen folks get stuff out of non traditional markets out of London and other places. There's all kinds of ways to skin a cat. And particularly in the commercial when you start getting into apartments and multifamily and things like that, there's ways to layer your risks that bring down your premiums and you see that fairly commonly that they're basically the insurance companies are collateralizing their risk and putting together a big pool. And there's layers of it. Right. And I'm not getting into the technical terms but basically Scott Carson Insurance has 15% of the first layer and Jason Byrne has 20% and they spread that risk. The markets worldwide are so big they can do that and still make a bunch of money and they'll have no risk. But it ultimately does somewhat help drive the price down for the investor crowd because that's what you're worried about. Look, you don't want to get into something when the carry cost is going to kill you.

Yeah, we've, I've had some friends that bought some stuff in Florida that have water that were in hurricane but the insurance is killing them and they didn't, didn't really check that out that much until they actually Closed on the deal. They didn't do the right due deals on the front end. That's a big thing for people out there. Take a look at what you know. You should be talking to an insurance agent before you're closing or have somebody handling your coverage, making sure, hey, this is what we want to do. This is what we want to protect against this and just not going.

You get a feel for that with experience. Sometimes you got to get burned. Yeah, but it's crazy. I'll give you an example. We've got a little cabin down at the beach. It's nothing fancy. I mean it's nicer than anything we probably grew up in, but it's nothing fancy. Three bedroom, two bath house, elevated down on the beach. It's maybe 14, 1500 square feet. Like I said, it's not much. Insurance is seven, eight grand a year. That's high for that size of house. Yeah, hell, it might be more. I don't know. I have to ask Christy, but. It's sad but you know, and then taxes, about the same. So I mean, it's, you know, just the. For personal carry of that little cabin, you know, it's 1500amonth.

Mm.

Just out the box.

Yeah.

Taxes and insurance. Not to mention the stuff in town. Gotta keep working.

Gotta keep working, brother. Yeah, exactly. Well, that's important numbers to look at because it's, you know, it's not always the first thing that we're looking at when we're looking at assets. You get excited about sometimes seeing cities. You know, I love, I love Florida like the rest of them, but specific areas have been hit hard. I guarantee insurance in Daytona beach is a lot more expensive these days than it was a few years back.

Really? Statewide in Florida is gonna be a tough market. They don't like it. It's the wind and it's tough market. Texas can be difficult too, because of its fastness and its. Look, they know how to underwrite. They know the risk on fire. I mean, they've got that figured out. They know what instant rate per million dollars insurance they're going to have for fire. I mean, that's thousands of years. We got that figured out. What they can't gauge is the wind. They just don't know. And you'll have freak deals. Windstorm over Big Bend, who cares, right? How about take a Cat 4 hurricane up the ship channel in Houston? That's big, you know what I mean? You could have the same amount of wind, but that's a disaster that has worldwide implications in that market. You know, in the insurance market. So to hedge against that, well, you know, you're gonna pay these premiums. I think California's got similar issues, you know, and it's these places that have just the hard risk to gauge. You don't know when you're gonna have a fire out there. You know, you don't. You know, when you're gonna have a hurricane come across the Gulf. You don't know these things. So I try to personally buy as little insurance as possible. And part of that's just because I'm so skewed. I mean, for years and years, you represent people who have problems with carriers, and you see, they may call it outliers, but I see some bad behavior, and I've just got a skewed view. Now, that being said, I never typically have too many problems with my personal claims, you know, but. But I know what to do about it, too. You know, I've got leverage points that others don't, because that's the last. When you're in business, if you're dealing with me, you're not going forward. You know, I mean, you're dealing with me. You got a problem, and ultimately we try to fix it for folks, but you don't want to be there. You want to avoid those problems at all costs. So by knowing what coverages you have, it also can help you to present it in the most, like, the light, most favorable to you. Because, make no mistake about it, there's a reason. There's basically three parts of any insurance company. You got the advertising, marketing agent guys, give me your money, and then you got the investment guys, okay, we got the money. Let's go make money with the money. Then you got to claim people, and they're the redhead stepchild that nobody wants to give them the money. And when it's in their hands, make no mistake about it, they're not your friend. They're looking to reduce liability for the carrier. I mean, that's their job, and they do it every day. And so if you present something, you know, and it may seem innocuous, you know, you're just. But just the words you use, the vernacular you use, you know, it's like talking to the cops. It can and will be used against. You characterize a loss in a way that tends to lead towards no coverage. And I've even seen that trend in my career become more aggressive. You know, 40 years ago, the claims process wasn't quite so aggressive. But they're aggressive, particularly with real estate investors, sophisticated people. You know, you're going to be held to a higher standard, if not technically, legally, just by perception then, you know, Joe Blow with homeowner's policy.

Yeah, that's definitely the truth. In different areas too. We've experienced that personally. Having assets in Chicago and the wrong side of Chicago are vacant properties. You've got to pay through the roof or. And you're still not gonna get a lot of. There'll be a lot of exceptions, a lot of clauses in there for you to get the full coverage that you need for either vandalism or fire.

Well, particularly on the vacancy, you know, typically you're allowed 60 days.

Yeah.

And without some type of. You can be a little different on your commercial properties, but you know, there's some notice requirements and you can extend those times. But a lot of people don't know that. You know, 62 days in, someone comes in and steals all the copper. I mean, breaks out the sheetrock breaks, steals all the copper out of the building, the structure. And that's a big dollar fix. Yep. And that's not a place you want to be and saying, well, it's been vacant. And you're gonna have those causes in every policy you'll have. So sometimes you gotta learn the hard way. I guess. But I'd rather your folks not learn the hard way.

Amen to that. You don't wanna go through the school of hard knocks and try to learn as you go on that stuff. You wanna know, because we've had that happen a few times. Copper got stolen from one property three times in a row.

Yeah, you got it. And watch that, I guess. Watch the copper market, right? When copper prices get high, you better lock your stuff up, man. That's the truth. Crackheads are coming for you. Hey, I've had it happen at the office out of our. I had to put a cage around our AC units, pull the copper tubing out of the AC units. I've got this old house, I've told you about it. It's where we live for a long time now. We moved five years ago, but I still own the damn thing. Anyhow, if anybody out there has any interest in a 5,000 square foot, three bedroom, two bath house in historic district in Beaumont, Texas, give me a call. There's no interest, but it's a beautiful place. It's cool, but it's got this roof structure. It's pitched at the top of the big part and then it comes down to a flat like valley area, big rectangle on top of the. That has. I call them floor drains. But Drains in the room that they go down through the structure and back out down the brick, down these huge drains that, you know, come down the side of the house. These gutters, well, they're all copper. Old lady who built the house, house had more money and she knew what to do with. They're all copper. And now they've been there for 65, 70 years. So they're grainy. Unless you know what you're looking at. You don't realize it, but I used to think, man, I hope these crackheads don't figure out that these are copper trains. Man, they climbed up on this house with crowbars pulling that copper off. No one's got to them yet. But there's more copper all over that place. And then on the, what are the caps on the fireplaces? That's all copper. I mean, had copper all over the place.

It's a crackhead's night. Wet dream when it comes.

Stay away. It's cool. It's a cool house though. Liked being there. Just didn't fit us real well, you know, A lot of space.

Did you run into any issues with it being a historical property? On what you could and could not do to the property? Had to keep it pretty clean.

And they have some restrictions. It's like a whole neighborhood, old town district or they have some restrictions and you're supposed to go through approval to do stuff. But I mean, I ask forgiveness, not permission. Typically. Over there, that's my damn house. But I never did anything crazy, you know, when I do things, I was consistent with how it looks. I never did a lot. Although right before we moved, I had designers come up with an addition. You know, I told my wife we had rich white people problems. You know, we had this big old house, but we had more kids than we planned. And so they were just getting older and they're all sharing a bathroom and all this. And so we're going to add on the bottom. And I would have had to gone through a pretty extensive approval process. Right, but they're not as bad as you in that district. As you see, like for example in Houston, in the Heights. My brother in law lives in the Heights and he bought this house years ago, I don't know, 15 years ago. And when he was single, it was like 800 square foot, tiny little, two tiny bedroom, one bath house. And then he got married and they popped out a couple kids and they were still living there. Man, it just wasn't, it wasn't doing the trick. But all around him, it's kind of Funny is that, you know, there's been this revitalization of this neighborhood that's inside the Loop. I mean, it's just off of downtown and it's a neat neighborhood too. So you have these huge places now are built up all around. By the time he went to do the same thing, he had to go through the district. And it took him a long, long time. I think it took him like a year and a half to get approval.

Wow, they're getting big in that time frame. In a year and a half. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. And then they did the construction. So I think it was. I think it was a challenge for them, but they got a great place in a great neighborhood now. So it'd be the kind of place that just to come in and buy would be probably prohibitively expensive for.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Now, getting closer to the end here. You and I have both gone different routes than probably expected out of high school and different things. And I think we've both done very good for ourselves out there and done some amazing things out there. What's been one thing you've done since graduating, going through college that really just kind of stands out, that you're excited about and proud of?

Looking back, I'm really happy. I've never been to prison. I said that jokingly, but there's some sincerity to it. I mean, I've been to jail a few times, but never prison.

Yeah.

I don't count those one night stays.

Yeah, brother, same here.

You know, more recently, I would say it's some realizations and it's coming to understand my strengths and my weaknesses, working on those things and trying to keep an open mind because the world is changing around us. Yeah. And at a paces at which, I mean, it's always been this way. Society changes, things happen at paces at which that I think are faster than have been in the past. I really do. And when I example I use for that is I say my childhood, upbringing, culture, society around us for me and you is I think more akin to our parents than our kids to ours, if that makes sense. Our world was a little different than our parents. They saw these kids and this rock and roll and whatever, but our kids, it's just more dramatic. So it's not something I've done more that it's just been in trying to be mindful of who I am and who I want to be. And I've been working on that. And part of that comes to realization that, look, I always try to take care of everybody, but I got to take care of myself, too. And so I've been working on that, too, in part of keeping that open mind and working on me. That's part of why I do the podcast. I mean, I don't know what the hell I'm doing with my podcast, and I'm not trying to make any money off of it. I'm not going to get clients off of it. It's not my goal, you know, I mean, it's not my hustle or I'm not going to do some mastermind of. Let me teach you about insurance law. Look, it's just a way for me to try and express myself a little bit, talk to folks that I like and I want to magnify them or learn more about what they're doing and try and have a little fun doing it. So it's really that goal of me trying to just to really make myself better at things is what I'm doing is because it's. It's not a. You know, I used to think, oh, I'm going to do this. I'm gonna get these cases and make all this money and I'll be happy or I'll be good and. Doesn't work that way. You know, sad news. It doesn't work that way. Wherever I go, I'm there. And so, you know, I'm starting to find I have a little more peace by working on me at the same time as I'm doing these other things.

Things.

I'd be going to yoga.

Hey, nothing wrong with that bird.

We'd make that. Yoga's hard. That's good for me, you know, it's good for me to challenge myself with this and also, you know, learn my limitations. Hey, I can do something, but I don't need to be spending my time doing that. I can handle your divorce case, but I'm the. Just stay with it.

That's a powerful lesson, I think. And we deal with that all the time. I'm talking to people. What about this? What about this? I'm like, listen, just find what you enjoy, find what you're good at and stay in your lane. You don't have to try that. It is good to learn new things or nothing against that, but you find yourself running all over trying to do everything. You're not going to be happy. You're going to burn yourself out from burning the candle at both ends, and you're not going to find happiness in the long run. It's going to be difficult. And, you know, I'm happier now doing less than I was doing a Couple years ago, being more focused. I know you are. I mean, we've had this conversation a couple times about things, and that's, That's a powerful message for those that are listening out there. If you find yourself unhappy because you're probably doing too much and you just need to focus on cutting back to one or two things in the max and, you know, and challenge yourself that way.

Right. And, you know, I'll give you an example. Twenty years ago, if you'd told me, hey, you're going to be regarded as probably, maybe not the expert, but an expert in insurance law in the state of Texas, I laughed at you. I mean, God, that sounds so awful and boring. And it's one of these things when you're young, you kind of fall into stuff and then you have a little success at it and then you just run with it. Now I've done it so long, I mean, I've probably had 3, 4, 5,000 first party insurance cases. Just those kind of cases from beneath counsel, hundreds of millions of dollars in litigation just on coverage.

Yeah.

And it sounds so boring. And it can be. But, you know, I used to always think, I'll go to school, go to college, get educated, do good, and I'm entitled to some type of this feeling of the glamour, glamorous, man, you know, it's not. And I have bad days, I have shitty days sometimes. Yep, same here, brother. Sometimes, you know, my goal is to, I just try to have more good days than I have bad. And I still, I think, I still think I have that in my profession, in my professional life. And if I can keep it there, then that's good. If I get to a point to where I'm not having more bad days consistently than good days, then maybe I need to look at doing something else.

I agree. Yep. That's good. Word of advice for everybody out there, because it's. We all have ups and downs, and a lot of people just like to see the ups. They don't recognize the downs out there. No matter what you're, as an entrepreneur, business owner, you have your share of bad to go. That makes the good even more sweeter. As they say, the. The juice is worth the squeeze. When you go through the good and.

The bad in there like y', all, you. What you want to call this line of credit dude, now, you know, give me a minute. You know, I mean, there's challenges. You know, there's challenges. It's how we respond to those challenges in our personal, professional life or any walk of life that really defines Us.

Exactly. And love, love that stuff.

I mean, you've had them, you know, you've had plenty of challenges. I've watched over the years. I've. I've seen you have them. I've seen you think, oh, this is the next best thing, and then six months later, maybe not so much.

Exactly, exactly.

But you've learned from it. And that's one thing I'll say about you, too, is, you know, you're open to learning from those things. And if nothing else, you know how to put your head down at work. And I think that you'd even admit that has brought you through a lot of challenges. If nothing else, by God, I'll just work through it. Well, at least I'll outwork them, you know, that's a lot. That's a lot. 80% of the battle, 90% of the battle. Just show up. Just show up, show up and put some work in. You know, There you go. And I think that's a good lesson. I don't create any profession. Now, that alone is not going to get you there. Right.

That's half the game. And showing up and just putting the hours in and, you know, keep your head down sometimes and then just keep plugging forward. That's the only thing sometimes that you can do to make.

Now, I have a question. Kind of related to that for your business is how do your relationships, your professional relationships affect your actual business practice? I mean, is that relationships across the country, Is that how you get. Get your deals or how does that work?

So, yeah, it's still a relationship business. I find, especially Steph and I were talking about this the other night, that we have a lot more closer relationships with people outside of Texas, outside of our hometown, than we do locally because we've traveled. We spent so much time in the last few years at events, speaking at conferences. And, you know, some of our best friends are just people that are all across the country, look, you know, entrepreneurs that we've spoken with and hung out with. I mean, we've got some local friends here in town that aren't in what we do. But yeah, it's a relationship business. I mean, some of my best friends have come from the no business and vendors and things like that we hang out and shoot the breeze with. But it's also too, you know, those. I'm sure it's like you reach those peers, go through ups and downs, and those are the people you reach out to when you are facing struggles and troubled times or dealing with trying to figure out what's the Next story or what's the next avenue for you as you're going through things? Because everybody goes through stuff.

Yeah. And I was interesting to ask you that because that's one thing mistake I made early in my career, I took for granted or didn't appreciate. And what I mean by that is I never felt like, you know, as a young man anybody had done anything for me. You know, I felt like no one in my family had gone to college. I went to college, went to law school now. Went to law school with, you know, a bunch of kids who were set up. You know, their daddy was a judge or was a lawyer or had this connection, you know, I mean they, and they had to go show up and do the work, but they were on easy street.

Yeah.

I had to graduate with honors and get on the law review and do that. So. Because I needed someone to give me a job.

Yeah.

And I did that and got a great opportunity down here with a good sized firm and this miserable. I stayed three years frankly, because they invested in me and I felt like I owed them. I owed them. And so when I got to a point where I knew they had made money, not lost on me, then that's when I would like to.

Sure.

And when I left, they laughed at me. They said, well, what big firm are you going to? Are you going to Houston, going to Fulbright, going to this? So now I'm going on my own. And they laughed. You know, I didn't have any business or any money or no prospects for any of it. And so I always had this me against the world attitude, which is very good in many respects because it drives me. But with a little bit of age, as I've come to appreciate, you know, it doesn't have to always be that hard. There are good people out there that'll work with you and that'll help you. And I just, you know, first 10 years I didn't appreciate that. And really if I have anything to look back on, I'd say, yeah, I probably could have done a lot better.

I echo that.

Relationships and being open to helping others and more importantly, receiving help and advice and asking for it.

Yeah, well. But I would be willing to bet though that, hey, laugh at you was probably one of the biggest driving factors to prove them wrong. Because I know I went through the same, same thing that helped. Oh, you can't do that. Whatever. Good luck with that. Good luck on your own. And that was one of the biggest driving factors to get to me where I'm at today. And I know it's one of the biggest driving factors to get you where you're at today too.

Yeah, yeah, I agree. Well, man, I like the new window you got going on. Is that a new thing?

Yeah, we're switching. We switched offices and we got some new background stuff. I'm up a little higher, bigger office. As we kind of change some things up a little bit here with what we're doing for the podcast instead of my green the green monster wall behind it. Some people are still getting used to it, but we're tweaking it up and making some changes in the process of bouncing between two offices throughout the day.

So that big city money now.

I wish that was the case, but.

Yeah, a little bit Sunday you got to go. But I want. You've had a lot of success on your podcast. Tell me how many countries and which what all you got going on. So talk to you And I wanted to.

Yeah, yeah, no, we got listeners in over 85 countries out there that are registering with the itunes and things like that. We're going to hit 300 and you probably hit 400,000 downloads in the next 30 days. Being on different radio stations across the country. We've got over a million million and a half hits to the radio station website for our episodes, which is really exciting. So it's been. We're hit our 500th episode here, the first part of August. So kind of crazy that just showing up every day, putting the time in.

That's so much different than mine. Well, that's awesome.

Hey, you know what, brother? I love it. You're starting it. Everybody's got a different story, different thing. Ours is obviously focused on the note game and it's taken over some of the things that we used to do. So it's actually become a lot easier consolidate. But I love your podcast. I love the episode of youf Son. I love it. You had with Wendy Davis on and you had the. I don't know if it's out yet. I haven't listened. But you had the big interview with somebody. Was the senator. I can't remember what her name was.

We're still trying to get that set up. It's not out.

Okay.

You know these people running for president. It can be difficult. But no, I'm having fun with it. I had a friend come on. We talked about a work life balance and she's pretty awesome. She's fitness model. A what all does she does? She does modeling. She's like a trainer. She's got three kids, little kids and is a full time Lawyer, too. Just like, Jesus, how do you do all this? That's what I wanted to talk about.

Right.

And I had a buddy, he's an insurance agent. We wanted to talk about insurance, but he's also an MMA fighter.

Wow.

And so we talked about MMA the whole time. He's trying to goad him to a couple more fights because I don't think his wife and family like him fighting anymore, you know? And I've got a buddy coming on tomorrow. I hadn't seen him in years. He runs a group in Austin called Texas Watch and kind of a consumer advocacy group. And so try to get things that loosely touch on law, because, I mean, that is my lane. I get it. But try to really try and spin it into, hey, here are these interesting people. Here's what they do. But how the legal aspects touch across life in general, in everyday life. And so some of them are going to be a little more legal in nature. And then some of them, like the one with my kid, that was the most fun. He's a handful, isn't he? He's cheese boy. But he's passionate. 11 years old and he's passionate. And so that's the fun thing, is talk to folks who are passionate about what they do, because that makes it interesting. You turned me on to a guy the other day. You had him on a friend of yours, Adam Scheibel.

Adam Scheibel, Yeah. The Million Pound Men. Yep.

The formerly fat guy.

Yeah.

I can relate to him immediately, just because I'm in the middle of that.

Yeah.

Lost quite a bit of weight. Still got a ways to go, but getting there. Yeah. But he's passionate. Yeah. Then the other thing, he was passionate. You had some video where he was talking about Instagram and how to use Instagram to grow, whatever, your media presence. And. Oh, man, I am old. I didn't even understand half the shit he was talking about. And I. Well, I guess I don't want to push my podcast that hard because I'm not doing all this crazy stuff.

Totally fine, brother. Totally fine. You're not your daughter. Take a look at it and help you.

I just got Instagram, mainly because my kids are on it, I think, or my daughter. And I was like, I'm gonna do this podcast. Maybe I'll get an Instagram, man. I don't have the energy for it.

You don't have to. That's the beautiful thing. You're doing great with what you're doing, and I love listening to it, love listening episodes. You're doing it. You're doing a great job, man.

I'm not gonna hit 400,000 downloads anytime soon. But you know what? That's the thing is, I don't care. That's not what it's for. And frankly, if no one listens to it, that's fine. It's for me. It's for me to get better because I find this medium challenge now. I can go into court, I can have my plan, and nothing always goes according to plan. But I know what I'm talking about. I'm there. I'm there in an adversarial type role. I'm there on an angle. I'm leaning on you or whatever the case may be. That's fun and trained for it, geared up for it. That's not the goal with the podcast, whether being on yours or me hosting. And so I find it actually more challenging. It's, you know, have to be a real human being and converse with people without pushing angles.

It gives you an opportunity to turn off that switch. I love that. I mean, that's the thing is when you're out traveling to speaking and things like that. You said in court, you've got to be on Jason Byrd, the lawyer, Scott Carson. And I like the fact of having the conversations where you, myself like this one. This has been one of my favorite ones because it's just two guys visiting and that's what I miss a lot of the times.

Absolutely. We even talked about insurance. Hopefully your folks. Helpful.

Totally helpful. Totally helpful.

And seriously, if you or your folks ever have random insurance stuff. Look, I answer questions all the time. Sure. I get stuff away all the time.

All right, what's the best way for them to reach out to you? Just go to the website. The Byrd Law Firm?

Yeah, the Byrd Law Firm. You can search me that way. It comes up. It's been up for a while, but it's txbyrd.com it's the shortest way I could use my last name and bird.

For those that are listening, is B Y R D, not B I. It's Byrd the bird. Then you can also check out his podcast, listen to it, subscribe to it. You'll love the episodes the Bird Chronicles on any podcasting platform out there for you.

Yeah, it's out there.

Yeah.

I call it the Bird Chronicles. And I think we've got a website up too. Thebird chronicles.com and kind of the taglines where wall meets life. Kind of the intersection of all the good stuff. I'm not as prolific as you two. I mean, how many do you Do a week, three, four, five.

We try to do at least three, sometimes five, sometimes six. Just depends on who schedules what. So.

Yeah, so I'm about once every 10 days.

That's perfect.

Well, cool, man. I appreciate you having me. You know, you can keep me as long as you want.

I know. We'll have you come back. We'll have to do something. Maybe we'll do one live from the Galveston fishing or something like that would be kind of.

Yeah, no, we're happy to do that. And specifically, I'm happy to come on and talk to your folks. Really along the lines of litigation avoidance, because if you're in business, you don't want to be in litigation. And so as the months go by and you see issues here, just make a little note of it. That's the type of stuff I've just done so much, I could talk top of my head and tell you.

I think that would be an awesome future episode. Let's get it booked. I think it'd be a great idea.

If you ever want to do something live where your folks type in, I'd have to have you on there because I'll screw it up as far as the technology part, but have real live here kind of issues. Yeah, I mean, I'm going to give you the legal disclaimer, hey, I'm not your lawyer, blah, blah, blah. But I'm happy to give you some real world advice in a real simple, non legalese type of way. Here's what you need to do. Or don't do that. That's stupid. And try to help. Because I try to encourage people to self help as much as possible. It helps me, you know, act in a reasonable manner and document things in an appropriate manner with whoever you have a potential dispute with. And not only document it, but you're reasonable. Well, then if you can't get it worked out or resolved, and then I get it, what do I have? I have a story to tell you. I was going to tell about how reasonable you've been and you're getting screwed over by the fox and you're just trying to run your henhouse and so it actually helps you in the long run. Yep.

I love it. I think it's definitely a great idea. We'll definitely do that. I've got to run. Jason, now you do too, but thank you so much, guys. Reach. Check out the Bird Chronicles. Check out the Bird Law Firm. Byrd out there out of Beaumont. Jase, thanks so much, buddy. Give my best to Jennifer and we'll see you later. All right.

Brother. Be good.

Alright guys, it's gonna wrap up for this episode. Go out, take some action. Listen, what Jason said. He dropped some great nuggets on dealing insurance companies. First and third party claims and things like that. Read your policy, see what you're agreeing to. And what you do and don't have can make a big bang for the buck in the future. So quit trying to save a nickel in the front. It can cost you a lot in the long run. So we'll see you guys all at the top.

Everybody.

Bye.