EP 571 – What’s The Deal With Miami: The Miami Real Estate Investment Market With Sarah Elles Boggs

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This is the no Closer show where you get the latest developments in distressed note investing and learn the secrets of how you can control millions of dollars worth of property for pennies on the dollar. Get educated and entertained by someone who has closed thousands of deals and lives to support you in achieving the same. Now, here's your host, CEO of We Close notes, Scott Carson.

Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, everybody. Welcome to this episode of the noclus Show. As always, Scott Carson. Excited to be here today. And I mentioned a week or two ago that we were going to be focused on different markets across the country, some of the hotspots that people love to invest in. That's the great thing about having a podcast I can focus on markets that I love that many of you also end up loving as well. And so we're honored today to have a Realtor and an investor who actually known for quite some time. It's a small world where we found out we're connected to other friends and other people all throughout the world, I guess you could say out there. But our guest today is an expert in the Miami market. She's a real estate agent in Miami, Florida, who also started out in Austin, Texas. She has successful investments in Dallas, Austin, Miami, and a small area in Northeast Texas. She definitely relies on market stats and gut instincts when choosing new investments and executing sales. She also works with a lot of investors and she's also talked about with a lot of investors who are moving into the notes. So we're honored to have Sarah Boggs join us this morning. Good morning, Sarah. How's it going today?

Hi, everybody.

So why don't we talk about you kind of how you got in as a Realtor and kind of your background experience and how you kind of evolved into an investor. You started as an investor first and kind of work our way back that way. How's that sound?

You know, I started in Austin. I graduated from ut.

Hook of horns.

Hook of horns. And straight out of college, I went to work for a local hotel and I was ready to use that degree I worked so hard for and paid so much money for. And I was having a really hard time working myself up that food chain. You know, they were writing me up for coming in early and not paying me the salary that I thought I was worth. So I told my mentor at the time, I'm big into mentorship. And I told him, I said, you know, this is just not what I thought I signed up for. And he said, you need to quit that job right now and come work for Me, I need to find some land, and I'm gonna buy that land and build some homes. And off I went. And that was my introduction into real estate. I worked for a small builder there in Austin and sold all kinds of homes until 2008 happened. Actually, I left before 2008. Miami called my heart out of just nowhere, and three weeks later, I was gone.

Viva la Miami. And that's actually, I think, how we connected originally. I had some assets. I was looking for some notes, I was looking for some comps, and we were looking to foreclose. And you reached out and you pulled. Did some CMAs for me. And we've stayed in contact for a while, and we're also mutual friends with everybody. Sebastian Rusk as well.

Yes. Sebastian.

Yeah. Hi, Sebastian. I'm sure you'll be watching this shortly. Like, oh, hey, how do you guys know each other? Which is a great thing. But so let's talk about the Miami market, because you work with a variety of investors at that neck of the woods, and then also residential. And so moving to Miami as a realtor in 2008 was a really interesting time, huh?

It was scary. It was liberating, to say the least. I knew Miami was such a rich market. There's so much to have there. There's the beautiful condos, but then there's also the distress sales that are sometimes a little quirky, and there's a lot of moving parts, and there's people from all different cultures and all different nations, and it was just totally different than Austin. And that really appealed to me. I really needed that sort of excitement. And I don't want to down the Austin market, because I do love the Austin market. At that point, I guess I was just burnt out, and I felt monotonous in my job in Austin, and this gave me the richness that I was seeking.

Yeah, I don't think anybody will deny the richness of Miami and the south beach area and that whole neck of the woods. It's one of our favorite spots to go in. It's just an energy, a vibe to it, like a heartbeat, a pulse. I mean, you're right. It never stops. Exactly 24 7. Something's going on in Miami. And was such a Florida at that time, especially South Florida, was such an interesting timeframe. Like you said, a lot of distressed sales, a lot of short sales, a lot of banks had stuff that on their books that they were looking to get rid of. I mean, 10 years ago, it could take 18 to 24 months to get a short sale done. Or a foreclosure done in Miami.

They were so backed up, it was unreal.

Exactly. The banks weren't ready for it, and that's why we had a lot of banks going out of business down the neck of the woods. But you've seen it rebound strong, though. Kind of what has driven the Miami rebound in your mindset and your thoughts?

Well, the specific area that I focus on in my residential business is the downtown and Brickell area, which is the area that you see. And all this, all the entry videos with the high rises right there in front of the bay. One thing that not a lot of people know about Miami is Miami beach and Miami are two different cities.

Right.

They're very close, but they're two different cities. And that ocean drive with the neon and the art deco, that's where people from Miami don't go. That's where the tourists go when they want to get ripped off. And, you know, such as Miami, they say it's a shady place or a sunny place for shady folks. You know, you have to be careful in Miami. But the area that I focused on was in, and that I still focus on in my residential business is the downtown and Brickell area, which is all those high rises in the financial district. And what really drove us there was that, I guess, right when we were coming out of the recession, the Great Recession, Venezuela and Brazil were coming on hard times, and a lot of those people just needed to move their money out before it became in danger. And so they did, and they would just buy anything. And it was kind of a running joke for a while that if you can find a Venezuelan client, they'll buy anything. But, you know, you still try to put them together with. Because you still have that client, you want to keep that relationship. You don't want to just cash your commission check and move on. So it was just pairing people up for a long time. Just pair people up, pair people up. And then things got really bad in Venezuela and they couldn't get their money out anymore. Same thing in Brazil. It was tougher for them. And right around then was when the salt tax thing happened up in the Northeast. And all of these millionaires from Connecticut, we got a lot of business from Westchester, a lot from New York City. New York City people love Miami because they still kind of feel at home, because it's still a city atmosphere, but there's a beach, and we don't really get a winner.

It's not quite as expensive as the Hamptons, either. There, too.

Exactly. So New York people tend to like south beach and Miami beach in general and more of the ultra luxury properties. But that was sort of where things went as time went on. And we're still now in the midst of the salt tax refugees I like to call them.

And as the market rebounded above where it was a decade ago and beyond that.

Oh, it has for sure, for sure. I don't see as many distressed sales as I did before in the 2009-2012 range. That was when I really made the most money on retail level distress sales. And when I say retail level distress sales, I mean not buying notes, buying the real estate owned. So the foreclosures already happened and it's on the open market and then you can go buy it. And there were some investors who were still able to make a really healthy profit off of that, you know. You know, you don't have to go through all of those hoops necessarily, you know, and if you need financing, there's financing. There was financing available, then there's financing is loosened up again now. There was a lot of good money to be made for everybody.

Where do you see the market at now in those areas there? Are you seeing things kind of dragging out on the market a little bit on the higher end stuff or is it dropping or popping up on those.

Areas which is like 5 million and above? That's always pretty steady. Because these people aren't necessarily buying because they're getting an amazing deal. They're buying because that's what they want. You know, look at Jeff Bezos. He was actually raised in Miami. You know, look at his purchase. 100 some odd million dollars that he deal that he made on a yacht. You know, he's not buying that because it's a fabulous investment. He's that because that's what he wanted to get for his wife or his girlfriend.

Be careful when you say that or when that boy. Because the two could be different people, right?

All the respect in the world for him if that's, you know, he's living his best life, he earned it. But, you know, and then there's the Ken Griffin who's, you know, buying up everything in the super luxury market. And then there's a luxury market from 1 million to say 5 million. And I see that in condos, especially in the high concentration areas, the higher density areas, that's not doing so hot right now. But at the same time, the sellers aren't necessarily super eager to sell. They're not selling because they have to, they're selling because they want to. So they're happy to hold it. And it's sort of the same thing with the 500 to 1 million range. And then below 500,000, there's not really so much inventory in the downtown area. There's a little bit, but that usually sells to first time home buyers or people who want to actually live there. Sometimes it's a vacation buyer. And there's a tremendous amount of inventory in the 500 to 1 million range. There's not as many buyers as there used to be. The sort of conundrum that these sellers have, especially if they bought brand new, is that this is probably not a good realtor speak for me. But you know, when somebody comes to you and they said they want to invest a million dollars, a lot of realtors would just take the client to a brand new building because they would get a 6% commission and dump that client. The developer would say, oh, you can sell this in two years for 1.5. The client doesn't know any better, so they sign up for it and then the building is delivered a year late. So three years later and it's worth less than what it was when you bought it. And that's the unfortunate situation that a lot of these investors are in right now. And you know at one point that it would have worked because of the currency conversion between these South American countries and the United States, but it doesn't really work that way anymore. It actually works on the other side. Right now these people are really losing their shorts and they can't afford to sell. So they just, they would rather just hold it and not sell it then. So I don't see a whole lot of discounts going on and there wasn't a whole lot of lending going on during this time period of 2012 to 2016 when all these pre construction condos were being sold. Most of them were cash. And I should note too that when a developer sells a condo to a new construction condo to a buyer, there is not a financing contingency. So if financing falls through at the last hour, you lose everything and that's 50% of what you paid. So you know, it's a scary situation for these guys and I feel bad for them. So what they do is they go and they rent them out and you know, try to make up as much loss as they can. Thankfully, I don't have anybody in that position. Some clients I've picked up along the way that were displeased with their situation and said, hey, I bought this condo from this person and it's not making Me any money. I can't sell it for what I want to sell it for. And so what can we do? So I rent it out for them, I manage it for them for a while. And they're all now looking to divest and put that money into notes where they can get more than at most in Brickell. You're getting a 3% cap rate for a show like this and investors like this. It's not a lot.

No, 3%'s not exciting. Those are like California numbers that people are looking for out there. But California is the land of fruit and nuts and all the droughts. You just got a bunch of nuts out there for the most part. That brings up to a couple things on the note side of things. I mean, that's where we've seen a lot of people. I mean, I bought a lot of stuff all throughout Florida over the last 10 years. I bought my stuff in the last four or five because the prices has increased a lot of stuff. So I'm buying other areas now where I can still get discounts for the most part. But it's still. I mean, we're still. I still got some performing notes down in that neck of the woods. We see a lot of people always interested in that neck of the woods, but it's also kind of a lot like Austin Miami. Miami beach area is a hot area if it's something's discounted. The banks often know that, hey, there's kind of buyers waiting in the right price points.

Got really hot after I left.

Oh, yeah, crazy hot after you left. We didn't really take too big of a hit for the most part. I mean, there's some areas like outside of Austin for the most part. And then a lot of the high rises stopped being built. You know, we had what, 36 pre approved downtown condo projects that only four ended up getting built. And two of them turned from condos into an apartment complex because people just couldn't afford it. But we still see that aspect. I know that we look at track marketing and you know, the average median price in the last few years has gone from like 250 to 330, you know, 340, 350 for the most part. And you know, that's starting to really start to price out people in the area here having to either move outskirts or looking to move to other places in the state to take advantage of affordability issues. Have you seen that happen, too? I mean, I know you're working in the Brickell in the areas you just described, but are you talking to other agents and seeing what's going on around Miami.

Just work in Brickell, but that's just where I market myself, and that's a hub. I still do deals outside. I think last year I closed more in Coconut Grove than I did in Brickell because that's just what was moving.

Right.

And I've done a lot of great deals in Hollywood, Florida, which isn't even in Dade county, it's in Broward. But there's some crazy investments up there. Sometimes it's on the quirky side, but there's some good stuff up there.

What do you mean by that? If it's on the quirky side, there's some good investments. Let's talk about that a little bit.

When you talk about investing in Miami and in Hollywood, which is where I like to work, it's a lot different than some other areas where, you know, there's one neighborhood that's really a great neighborhood, and that's going to be a hub of great investments and it's going to be a safe investment and whatever. In Hollywood, it's. There's one street is a great investment, the next street you might be in danger. Another street is a great investment. You know, there's no real neighborhoods. It's street by street by street. And not the scariest streets are a bad investment. I've made some good investments for people on those streets. You have to make sure that the permits are all pulled. You have to make sure that all the codes are up to date. There's no code enforcement drama there. I had an investor on one of the scary streets, and I say scary street just because the investors on that street, they didn't really qualify their tenants before they moved them in. So there were some characters. And in one house, I don't know what happened in that house. It was separated into an illegal fourplex. This investor owned it because. And thank God I didn't do this deal on the front side. I got him out of it. He bought this fourplex at the courthouse steps. Didn't do his background check on it. He bought it for $150,000. I think it was thinking that he could sell it for 250, but there was a $250,000 lien from the water department. Who knows what was going on there, if it was a leak or what. But he ended up having to just dump it for $75,000. He lost his shirt, and I felt bad for him. But it was either that or, you know, negotiate down that code enforcement lane and bring the property back up to code and turn that garage back into one garage instead of three apartments. And things like that happen in Hollywood. They happen all over. But they're more prevalent, I think, in Hollywood. But you know, there's also some really good deals in Hollywood. There's houses that were built in the city 70s and the 60s before the bedrooms were super small. So they've got huge bedrooms and big closets and solid construction and really pretty things. When you invest in Miami, that's really when, especially if you're not a foreign investor but an out of town investor, have an agent there that can go by and look at the place. Do your due diligence. Don't just, oh, this is in Miami. This is going to be awesome. Buy. No, no, no.

Unfortunately, some people are like that. They look at the city and they go, oh, I'll buy it all day long. I'm like, no, you have do due diligence. So I'm so glad you said that. Make sure you have a realtor go by. Make sure you, you know, if there's 12 cars in the parking lot or on the around it go into the house. It's probably got some extra units in there that may not be zoned or permitted for. Right.

There's also another thing I need to bring up as a be forewarned in Miami. Miami, a lot of cities are this way, but Miami especially, there's little villages around and they're inside the city limits, but really they're kind of Miami, but really they're kind of not because they have their own police force and their own city hall, like Miami Shores for instance. And then there's unincorporated areas that are still within Miami, but they're not really in Miami. And in some of those they have totally different code enforcement agencies. And some of them allow, they call it a preoccupancy inspection. And that's when the permit violations are found. And illegal garages closed down to make an extra bedroom and illegal bathrooms. And a lot of investors lose a lot of money on that because they buy into those things and then they have to bring them back to the way they were before the code violations. And that's expensive.

Yeah, that definitely is. We've rendered that a couple times in some of the portfolios we bought where we end up taking the property back and seeing, oh, hey, the owner got creative in their house, trying to stack people in there for the most part as best they could turn into a multiplex versus a single family resident. The foreclosure timeframes have really sped up in Miami or South Florida. Anyway, we should say that Instead of being two years, we're seeing stuff 9 months, 12 months for the most part. It's really kind of cut in half out there. Are you seeing. Obviously we're talking about investment dollars coming up from the northeast area. At one point there was a lot of like $0.40 of every dollar in South Florida. Real estate was international money. Where do you think more of the international money is coming from these days? Is it still not Brazil or Venezuela? It's other areas you see.

We still see a lot more now from Colombia and Mexico. Everybody keeps saying that China is going to become a big player. They've been saying that for years. They even made a direct flight from MIA to Hong Kong and it hadn't happened.

It's probably not being a lot of people on there right now either though too.

I know, right before the whole coronavirus.

Yeah, there was a lot of talk about foreign money coming from China. And you're right about that. We had a few people reached out just like, oh, we're bringing in China money. I'm like, well, tell me when the money actually arrives and then we'll start talking.

Let me see it happen. I'll tell you another place that's new, sort of new on the map over the last two years is Turkey and Saudi Arabia.

Oh, really? I can see Saudi Arabia final on here. Turkey's interesting. That's new. But that's the thing is depending on what their dollar versus our dollar doing and the real estate stuff and other things like that, there's opportunity still available out there. Are you still seeing a lot of the high end stuff, high rises getting built up or that slowed down quite a bit over the last few years.

Slowed down quite a bit. What's happened in there is over the last probably five or six years, between 2012 and 2018, that's been more of the mid range, sort of, so around 500,000 to 1.5 million. And then, you know, because the market really slowed down on that market. So then they started with super luxury, which has done well. But those buildings are all starting to be delivered now. And these are your Ritz Carlton's. Your fianna was a couple of years ago, but Ritz Carlton's are opening right now. And then museum, which is a building in Sunny Isles. It's amazing.

The views are gorgeous property. I actually walking by that one was first being built and like, man, this place is gonna end up being gorgeous.

I wish that you had connected with me while you were in town. We spoke A little bit. But I wish that you had had time to come with me on a couple of years. I could have taken you to the top of that. I mean, it's sick.

It's crazy right now with investors, with you working with investors. And you talked. We talked a little bit about, hey, you've been investing stuff. What's kind of your favorite thing? What do you like? What do you love investing? What kind of gets you rocking and rolling when it comes to your own portfolio, your own investment dollars?

You know, I kind of like the Hollywood properties, all right.

The good neighborhoods are even a little bit of the questionable ones, you know, But.

Well, there's two things here. One thing, one other point that I wanted to make about what's moving now is the trend now that the super luxury properties are all kind of being opened up and sold out. The new hot thing that a lot of people ask about is Airbnb in Miami. And I don't advise people to buy that. You know, it's just my personal choice as a broker. I don't advise it because it's just too volatile. In Miami beach, they still have all of the drama going back and forth with the city over whether or not it's legal. In the city of Miami, as of now, it's legal, but that could change at any time, and the market's really kind of being flooded with it. If there are investors that want to buy that, specifically, I advise two buildings in Brickell that I would. I would send people to, and then maybe a couple in some other areas or buy a house. But I don't advise those new construction Airbnb buildings. They're just too filled with drama and too filled with risk.

Right. That's exactly what happened here in Austin, Texas. Airbnbs are illegal in the city limits of Austin, Texas.

And I think you guys had the same. Because y' all have a nativo building, don't you?

Yes. Yep.

We do, too. And it's all filled with questions right now.

Yeah. Now, one of the things, too, that I saw happen, and some of the stuff there, obviously to worry about deferred maintenance and extra cost, especially on some of the condos with coas, the condo associations, I give the nice thing there, if you're buying the note, where you've got safe harbor, whereas a note buyer, if you do buy a note and foreclose, you're not paying the full association dues. But you, as the owner, if you're going and buying it, you've got to worry about that deferred maintenance Kind of kicking into and hurting your pocketbook.

Right, you do. And that changes from city to city how much it is, because there is a regulation. I'm not 100% sure what it is right now because they could have changed it over the last couple of months, but it was where the. If it was a foreclosure sale, then the person who owned the note would only have to pay a year or two years instead of having to pay whatever they owed, which was sometimes five or six years. Because, you know, people can be operators, they can stay in properties for years while it's in the middle of foreclosure. And that's another thing to be careful of. You know, do your due diligence when you're about to buy a note. People really want to move out because if they don't, they may not move out.

We had one situation where a family of four, four people were on the mortgage and each one, when it came down to it, took the time to file bankruptcy. So it drug out in the BK courts for basically roughly that four year period when one would do it, then later on another one would do it and then that would get discharged and the third person would do it. Oh my gosh. Luckily we were getting it at a steal, but it was a bit pain in the rear.

Yeah, but for every story like that, there's a story like, you know, every now and again you find a unicorn. Like I found a unit back in the late summer in Aventura and the note was for sale for 750. It was quiet, it wasn't like on the market. It was just something I heard about under the table. And the person who lived in the property that was going to be foreclosed, he wanted to let it go. It was a strategic foreclosure and he said, just buy it and resell the property. Property, I don't care. I'm out. I'm moving back to wherever I came from. I'm done. And so somebody made some good money on that one. Unfortunately, it wasn't any of my investors. They weren't interested. Yeah, it's worth 1.5.

That's a nice 100% return on your investment if you can make it happen. Sure, it's tying up. I mean, that's the thing. A lot of the higher end note purchases people kind of shy away from because it does tie up a lot of capital in one asset that could potentially get drug out foreclosures and returns. I was sitting in the Miami airport one day talking with a gentleman across from Me and we got to visit and I asked him what he did. He's like, I do. I'm an international lip gloss salesman. I have this lip gloss company. And I'm like, okay.

And he's worth a zillion dollars. And he drives a Bugatti too, right?

Yeah, exactly. He goes, and he asked me what I did and he started laughing when I told him I bought and sold that. He's like, oh, you would love my deal. I've got a 4 million dollar mansion on Miami beach that is maybe worth 2 million now because of everything. And I haven't paid the mortgage in three years. It's cheaper to be to pay my attorney every month to drag this thing out. I'm living basically for free.

And I'm like, yeah, what an operator.

Exactly. What a crazy operator. He goes, I bought another house that I used to cash out refi 4 years ago, pull a half a million in equity out, bought a house for cash that has no mortgage on it. But that's what's part of that $4 million mortgage. It's not quite fraud, but is it?

Not quite, but kinda it might be, you know, some other areas that are really cool for investment. And one thing to look for when you're investing in Miami is people really flock to certain school districts. And one of them, which I've seen people do crazy things to get into the school district. I mean, rent a whole separate apartment just to be in the area, get put on somebody else's mortgage, they'll do anything to get in. The school district is Sunset elementary and actually saw a short sale in the Sunset elementary school district when I was, you know, doing some numbers yesterday. And it was probably a little bit of a risky short sale. They were saying they want you to buy the note and then foreclose the note, which is fine, but I'm a little bit questionable about that. If it comes from the mls, I would rather it come from the bank.

Yeah, that's kind of a weird situation. Do you know who the bank was on that?

I don't remember off the top of my head. But I mean, I could go back and check. If anybody's curious.

You and I need to talk about that afterwards. We won't do it here publicly for it, but that might be something.

But you know, the property had been on the market for forever. The house, it was a pretty house, maybe a tear down. They were marketing it as a tear down and rebuild, but I thought it was a pretty house to begin with. As long as they've kept it up and it was on a prestigious street and I think it was something like $1.8 million. But that was, you know, again, on the higher end. There's other areas like Kendall or Doral that have great schools and you don't necessarily have to drop that much money.

Things move pretty quickly on the MLS there. If it's priced right, is it priced in?

If it's priced right, yes. If it's priced right and it's in a hot area, then yes. If it's in a, you know, when I say an okay area, I mean something like. If you list a condo in Brickell right now, be prepared for four months. If you list in the Sunset School district, it could be days all dependent.

On zip code area, what's going on there too, which happens everywhere. Here in Austin we see a lot of things with less than a two month inventory for the most part. So a lot of stuff that's priced even close to being right stuff is getting bought relatively quickly in just a matter of 30 days or less for the most part. That's good to be a seller in the right thing. It's not always good if you're a buyer, if you're trying to look at things.

Well, unicorns pop up.

They do.

But if you're a buyer with a, with a time frame, if you're doing a 1031 or something, then I don't know.

But you might need to do a deferred sales trust if you're limited on your timeframe. We just had Brett Swartz on who handles all that stuff. And he's out of California, but he does stuff in mine. We were just actually talking about that market. He's working with a client on a $5 million 1031 and the guys end up doing a deferred sales trust. So bought him time. He didn't have to make an immediate impact in his 45 days or 180 days to close on the thing.

So that's smart.

It is smart. Definitely out there with you liking the Hollywood areas and stuff. Like you like fix and flips, you like rentals. I know you're in all notes space there for it. What do you like the most?

I like the Hollywood area because, you know, it's sort of shown its character throughout time. And I love the fix and flip. I love the architecture in the area. The bedrooms are nice and big and for the same house that you would get in, you know, on a nice street in Hollywood, you would pay maybe 500,000 in Hollywood. Whereas in Coral Gables it would be 2 million.

Yeah. Much bigger bang for your buck than value for dollar. And that's. Are you seeing a decrease in or increase in rent rates in that $500,000 or less rate and then maybe a decrease in rents in the higher end if stuff is sitting there long term.

I'm seeing an increase in the single family homes and a decrease. Well, not necessarily a decrease, but a stagnation in that area in condos.

Awesome. Awesome. What do you think the market's going to be in the next 24 to 36 months? Do you think it'll still keep going up or do you think we're due for a correction?

You know what, I think they've diversified enough and there's enough things coming into, you know, as far as infrastructure coming into Miami that I don't think we're going to see the big crash like we did. I think that these investors who are kind of hurting right now and bought pre construction are going to start trickling off and selling for what they can sell. I do see things in the Brickell area, the condos selling for about 93% of list price. So you know, people aren't taking a bath on the. But that's on the retail market. You also every now and again see a bank that's struggling that over leveraged themselves and they'll dump their notes. That happened to me a couple of years ago and it was great.

Yeah, I keep waiting for that. We're not gonna see 2008 numbers. I mean I remember getting lists in from US Century and Oceans bank down that neck of the list.

Those were great.

Yeah, those are totally great. I actually saw an asset manager, he's at a different bank now, but he was the head of secondary marketing over at US Century Bank. And I was talking to him the other day because he's speaking on a panel at a bigger event and he was like, I hadn't talked to him a couple years. I called him, he's like, is this the Newt guy? And I started laughing because he remembered me. I was going back and forth. I guess that's what happens when you take a guy out to the Miami Heat game, to a finals game in Miami when you're in town.

I remember you.

Uh huh. That was one of the most interesting things that we did see is we have done bought some notes and short sales from some of the guys that played for the Dolphins back a few years ago, some of the previous Heat players. And that kind of brings me to thinking, you know, when LeBron left, you know when LeBron left Miami, they said that was about a $200 million hit to the economy. Did you see? Would you agree to that? Or thinking it wasn't that big of a difference.

Did LeBron hurt the economy?

Yeah, when he left, a little bit.

You know, I think it hurt the Miami Heat economy as far as ticket sales. And there used to be this whole vibe about the Miami Heat we're gonna play when it was D. Wade and LeBron, and that sort of went away. You know, Miami fans are. They're really intense, but they're also very fickle. So I don't think it really hurt real estate as much as it hurt the Miami Heat ticket sales.

There you go. Or maybe a little bit of the tourism with the hotels and things like that, going to the restaurants in downtown area. That makes sense.

But around the same time, when the. When all that stuff happened with the Miami Heat, there was a new cruise ship terminal that opened up right around the corner. And so that brought a whole bunch of new people in, and the new mall in Brickell opened. And you may not believe it that people will travel for a new mall, but people will.

We have seen that here in South Texas or here south of us in San Marcos every weekend. Bus loads and bus loads and busloads coming up from the Valley or Mexico, especially on tax free weekends and things like that. It's just. It's so overcrowded in the outlet malls. I don't even go there anymore because it just gets so crazy on the.

Weekends we used to have in Miami, there's people fly in from Venezuela and from Brazil and they bring their big Gucci and Louis Vuitton suitcases that are empty and they take them through the malls and they just fill it up, fill it up, and then they fly back. So those probably weren't the people that were going to the Heat games, but that did help to keep the economy sort of propped up.

There you go. Exactly.

Sa.