EP 574 -The Phoenix Real Estate Investment Market With Cash Now Homes

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This is the no Closer show where you get the latest developments in distressed note investing and learn the secrets of how you can control millions of dollars worth of property for pennies on the dollar. Get educated and entertained by someone who has closed thousands of deals and lives to support you in achieving the same. Now, here's your host, CEO of We Close notes, Scott Carson.

Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, everybody. Welcome to this episode of the Note Closure show. As always, Scott Carson, Excited to be here today. And we continue our market series with some of the hotter markets across the country and doing a deep dive into what's going on in those zip codes in those neck of the woods that many of you guys are either living in or looking to invest in. I mean, I first want to thank everybody in Note Nation for listening, subscribing, of course, sharing the podcast out there as well. But we turn our attention to a market that years ago was really kind of ground zero central for a lot of the foreclosure markets out there. In 2010, I originally started investing in this market back then when there's 14,000 reos waiting to roll out in the market. And that's a crazy aspect of things. And the market has rebounded strong, doing really well, one of the hotter markets of the last couple years out there. And so I was really excited to reach out to these three crazy cats who are doing an amazing job and really doing great stuff. Wholesaling, investing in their market and then also providing really great content on their own podcast out there. They're the hosts of the Cash Narrow Homes Money Making Money podcast. And these three guys have ton of experience in what they're doing in the market. I'm honored to have the men, the myths, the legend of the Phoenix market join us today. We've got George Applicant, Alberta, say hi. And Mark Anderson Join us from Phoenix today. What's going on guys?

How's it going, bud? How you doing? Doing good, doing good.

Guys are doing a great job. How did you guys get started? Let's start with that before we dive into the numbers and some things that we see out there. How did you guys dive into being said you were going to be a real estate investor?

I was in the lending industry since before the crash and even after the crash I was still in lending industry, you know, work for the some of the big banks. And then after a while, you know, I just got a little tired of that. So I said, you know something, let me look into the wholesaling aspect of it of the real estate part. When I started doing that. I just said, you know something, if I want to be doing real estate, might as well have another avenue. So I also got my real estate license was about five years ago, and then just jumped into it and definitely started doing it. A lot of the retail part of real estate. That's when I pretty much met up with George here that I've actually known George from the lending industry.

Oh, really?

Okay, I'm sorry, George. I'm sorry to hear that.

No, I know exactly, exactly. You want to hear the sad part? I was there for 20 years.

Wow.

Yeah. 20 year veteran and mortgage industry. I was a loan officer in that time. What happened was is that still living paycheck to paycheck. We had a conversation a little bit off air that most people were living paycheck to paycheck or at least 30 days behind on their mortgage. Well, that's where I was. And I realized even no matter how much effort I put into trying to excel in my business that I was in, it just wasn't working. So all of a sudden read the book Rich Dad, Poor dad and the mindset shifted from there. Found wholesaling. The weird thing about it was, is that when I read the book and started seeing some of the stuff that some of the strategies that he was performing, lease options, wholesaling and investing in general, I was doing the mortgages for those investors, paying them off. And I never realized it until after I read that book. And so then once that happened, it clicked and I was like, I can do this. I can be the guy on the other side of the table. So got into that, started reading up, reading up, got degree in YouTube University, met up with Albert here and it's been a blessing since.

So Mark, how'd you get started?

Well, I've been in the mortgage industry. We're all mortgage industry people.

I'm so sorry.

Yeah, exactly.

15 years for me. I moved here to Arizona, jumped right in at one of the bigger banks, stayed there for a while, met Albert while I was at one of the bigger banks. We've been friends for decade at least now he started venturing off, doing his own thing. I kind of stayed in the mortgage. Not kind of. I stayed in the mortgage industry for a few years longer. And then recently, what's December? So it's been three, four months. I just couldn't do it anymore. Had that mindset like this. Just I'm not living my life here at the desk. And I quit my job, joined Albert and George. Within days of joining, they gave me a Lead for wholesaling and gave him a call, sold that guy a house. It was crazy. Everything put together. It was a huge learning experience, and I've been trying to maintain that since.

Very nice. Yeah, that's the thing when you come from the lending side, where you've got to check every box, cross every T, and dot every I. Wholesaling and some of the other cryptos. If you're like, what I can actually.

Do, such a relief. Wait, I only need two papers. Are you kidding me?

Yeah.

You're not looking at my credit score.

What, you're gonna lend me money without anything?

Is Ashton Kutcher going to step out of the. So you guys have seen some trends, obviously, 15, 20 years between. I mean, you guys have old man retirement, age of wisdom between the three of you guys, where. I mean. And the Phoenix market's gone through some ups and downs. Been a bit of a yo, yo two years back and stuff like, you've seen it rebound back. Where is the market out there right now? Because one the big thing that when I saw you guys were moving some wholesale deals that had 150, you know, 200 grand in equity, I was like, whoa, okay, we got to talk. What's the market looking like? You're still getting a lot of California investors or you just see more inventory sitting in? Deals that are popping up that way.

Retail wise, nothing is staying on the market.

Yeah, right.

Retail wise.

Retail wise. I mean, it's insane.

Yes.

Properties, they're going quick. Yeah. Within days. So that. Then the wholesaling part, I guess it's a little different. Go ahead.

Yeah. The spreads are getting thinner.

Yeah, they are.

That's what it is. And so we're kind of. We had this earlier this morning that we have to start changing our strategies. Right. So because on a traditional wholesale deal. Right. We used to be able to net 20, 40 on here, and it's not happening anymore. Right. So with them being licensed, we were giving the option in regards to listing it. Some people are still not seeing it. A lot of our competition are kind of overpricing their properties at this point in time. And so we're kind of thinking about doing some hoteling. Right. Get the property, acquired it under contract, clean it out a little bit, put it on the mls and we'll see how that goes. But this is something that we just barely started going into once again, because the spreads are not there and the inventory is not lasting long on the mls.

Yeah, it doesn't. It doesn't last. A lot of the spreads that we are getting here is we're also doing our own flips. We got a little bit pretty much I think we've done multi families.

Right.

Talking duplexes, triplex or you're talking like apartments.

No, duplexes and small multifamily right now. Yeah. And that's where we have seeing the.

Bigger spreads and that's helped us out. Coming from a lending background, we understand some of the numbers. Right. So we understand. Well. Okay, well times four units we're going to know that we're going to net X right. Based off of that and understanding the cap rate and our cash on cash return based off of everything.

So that's what helped us a lot actually. Yeah, the multifamily.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense out there. So days in market very small, less than 30 days of it or less than three months of inventory on the MLS? For the most part.

Yes.

Yeah, yeah.

Oh yeah.

Are you seeing an increase kind of the opposite side? Are you seeing some of the higher priced markets? Because I know you're probably seeing stuff that's that first time home buyer 0 to 300 is probably moving real. But yeah. Are you seeing stuff that's like in the higher range the half millions are higher. Starting to lag a little bit actually.

So here's the funnies inside of our investment community that we have big investment community. A lot of our investors here, they're now moving. The average sales price of a home right here is about 275. Before they were avoiding properties anywhere between the 400, 500 range. Okay. And so since the spreads are narrowing now and a lot of the inventory is now gone especially for that 300 price range and below now a lot of the investors are starting to move to that market where it's a 400500 range. Trying to make those flips happen in the less than million dollar range. Does that make sense?

Totally does. They're just up and again because there's inventory there. But we all know it's a different type of rehab.

Yes it is. Yeah. Different type of rehab is a different type of retail as well. You don't have your regular first time homebuyers are buying a four or five hundred thousand dollars home. So yes, it's totally different.

Are you guys with your investors out there, are you seeing starting to see some more short sales at the MLS and some things like that like in some other parts of the country or. It's pretty small.

Yeah. Still it's pretty small. I'll see one or two maybe I Haven't really seen that many. And those, even though, I mean, those are going like quick too. When you do see, honestly the price that they put. Yeah.

A trend that I am seeing on the MLS though is properties that need a little tlc. Like it's a good structurally, bones wise. But it's the hotel.

Yeah, yeah, it's the hotel.

Yeah, that's. I think we're seeing that in different parts of the country. For the most part, we don't see much here in Austin, but people are always. You guys get an influx of those crazy Californian investors coming over there. Oh my God, for a half million they can buy four places for their seller shack.

A lot of times they come in here like, oh yeah, we selling a property, we just sold a property. And we just move over here. They go, oh my God, you're gonna get a big over here then.

Right. And they, then they buy all cash. So then that, you know, that throws a lot of other borrowers out of the market.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Now you guys access so many things, which is awesome. I love that I can sit here, pick your brain all day on stuff. But we won't do that for the most part. With the mortgage industry. One of the biggest things that we saw obviously decade ago was a lot of the pick A pays. You know, the option arms popping up on a partial interest payment and then you're re amortizing the deferred interest and stuff like that. Have you seen a comeback of that? We know that arms have been back for a while now. But are you seeing any of those popping up by any chance?

So I still have my mortgage license. The answer is no, I haven't seen any pick A pays, not that many. But I've seen decrease in regards to FICO score requirements. So before it was a 660 FICO score, 680 FICO score for a 5% down or something like that. Now they've brought it down to 640. There's a couple of lenders out there at 600 that are willing to lend out almost 100% of the property. And there's not really much of a requirement other than that if you have a job and you have a really bad credit, they'll lend it. So those are kind of the things that I've seen. And then some very unique products. Right. So for self employment. Self employment, where they use the bank, the 12 months bank statements or 24 month bank statements, those are the kind of unique ones where I've seen where they'll do some interest Only or they'll do like a five year arm or something like that.

No negative ends yet. No negative memorization yet?

Not yet.

Not yet.

Wall Street's thinking about it though.

It's coming right?

Well, not doing those. I mean, obviously, no matter what, I think there's going to be a correction. But I think if we avoid the negative ends and all that, those really, really, really, really subprime ones, I think we won't have a big of a bubble as we did in 2008.

Yeah, I think the big thing back then was everybody's like, oh, my value is going to constantly keep going up. It's never going to be 125% LTV.

Never.

You know.

Exactly.

Now are you seeing to a lot of people? Because you guys are, you've got this kind of similar market price range, but we have. Are you seeing people moving more to the outskirts of Phoenix and some of the outlying areas there, investing in those neck of the woods, they don't mind waiting 30, 40 minutes of traffic.

Yeah, I mean, I don't know so much about investing. I know retail. Yeah, more bang for your buck actually. You get that here in the outskirts. I do see a lot of retail doing that.

Yeah. Here in Phoenix, it's funny the way that the market is, is that we don't move up, we move sideways. So like. Yeah, but we don't build up higher. We don't buy, build these big skyscrapers. We don't have these huge condominiums or anything like that. We keep on going outwards. And so what happens is that before from end to end, from the central Phoenix, it used to be a 30, 35 minute drive. Now we're looking at 45 minutes to an hour from end to end. Right. So yeah, I mean the outskirts are being bought up. I think that it's, but it's primary residences that are, that are being acquired right now. And yeah, we're getting an influx of people just moving here. They said, what is it, one in three people that move here are from California. So a third of our population is from California moving here every single year.

I'm so sorry. No, no, no. We got to give big love to our California listeners.

Exactly. All the Dodger fans are coming over.

I'm so sorry for that.

You're a big baseball fan, so I'm.

A big baseball fan, but I'm a Giants fan for Wall. I grew up loving Barry Bonds. Hopefully gets in the hall of Fame next year. But anyway, so the Dodgers may have won seven pennants straight, but they still have no ring to show for.

Yeah, exactly. One was stolen from them.

Yeah, yeah, whatever. That's a whole other thing. Now you guys get a lot of influx of people moving there for the warm climate too. Have you guys seen an increase in like probate leads or properties where. I know you guys have a lot of probably elder care facilities popping up all left and right.

Oh, that's a big thing. Yeah.

Yeah. So there's a huge niche for assisted living. Assisted living, yeah. And we have a ton of investors that are just constantly looking for inventory for people that even homes that don't fit the criteria can be built to build to fit. The unfortunate part of the market is that this area is not built for that, but the demand is here. So nowadays a lot of our counterparts are actually looking for land to try to build these assisted living here because they can actually buy the land, build the building. A lot cheaper than actually remodeling a property.

Yeah, we do get a lot of that.

And just so that, you know, when I moved from California to here, I had no issues with my joint.

Like.

Yeah. All of a sudden, nothing hurt like it was. Yeah. Something about Arizona, the sun out here, it just, you know, it's. It's a relaxing, nice place to be.

Sun's out. Guns out for you, huh?

Do the flex.

So what are you guys finding? And without giving away any of your trade secrets with you, finding your deal activities, investor activities, are you seeing either working for you guys or your network of investors, Are you still seeing a lot of door knocking or yellow cards or postcards or yellow letters or bandit signs? What are you seeing as having the best bang for the buck or these.

Days, I think the virtual assistant is a big thing here in Arizona. Hiring the virtual assistant to do it, making the cold calls and skip tracing, obviously. I don't know. I know there is some big time investors here doing still the mailers, but for us, it's a big part is the virtual assistants.

Wow, I love that. Would you mind going in a little bit more detail about that without.

Sure, no problem. So what we do is we get a list of data, right? So say, for example, we want probates, we'll go ahead and pull in. We'll start to dissect the list, right? So we'll look for high equity or violation codes. From there, we'll just gather a list. We end up putting it into a dialer system. That dialer system, we have a virtual assistant. The virtual assistant will go ahead and dial, basically to try to see if there's any interest on it. From there, if there's an interested seller, then we get that warm, interested seller. It goes into our CRM, we start following up with phone calls, and then we build relationships. Usually when we build a relationship, we don't come at it like, hey, sell this your home or whatever, anything like that. We come from a consultation standpoint. Let's build some rapport. Let's build some trust. What's your pain point? Offer your pain point. Okay, how can we solve that problem? Right? And then, no matter what, whether it benefits us or not, we'll give them the best option that fits their needs. And usually, nine times out of 10, it ends up coming back. And then we end up either whatever we have to do at our end, wholesale, or take it down, fix and flip whatever it is.

Retail.

Right? Retail. Whatever that funnel is. With the three of us, we have so many different options and channels that we can. We have a solution for their problem.

That's a unique competitive advantage that you guys have over most people just being investors. You guys, worst case, you list a property, make a commission, you know.

Exactly.

And it's to the benefit of the seller. Right. You know, you go into a house and it's a beautiful home. Right, Brent? You know, let's just call it under 5 years old. And they want to sell it with the appreciation that that's in this market. Well, you're doing them a disservice if you're saying, okay, well, I'll buy it at, you know, at 60 cents on the dollar. It just. It's something that doesn't fit their needs. So once again, right. The best option may be to looking at us and listing it or, you know, even in this market right now, we'll even throw the option Airbnb VRBO on this property just because of the location that you're here. Make some money. From the most part, most people are kind of reluctant to do that, but we'll give them the option at least. We know we did everything on our end to give them all of the information that they have so that they can make an educated decision.

It's getting a lot harder for us to just say, for the opportunity to say that, no, we can't help you.

Which I love, because we always have a solution for them.

Yes, you should be on the solution. Doctors, we got a solution that's good. We can use that one. We got a solution for housing ails.

There you go. Nice. I like that solution. Doctors.

So you guys, very critical point there. When we're seeing this in a lot of different parts of the country where investors are going to that short term rental model, the Airbnb, the VRBO model, you're not seeing any kickback by the city or any of the other the hotel chains like that trying to fight that in different areas. Here in Austin, they've outruled that. And actually Travis county here, where Austin is, can't do an Airbnb. You gotta be outside the city limits to do that. Which is kind of a big pain in the ass, right?

No, we haven't seen that here. I think the most that we've seen here is maybe an HOA association saying that your lease has to be a minimum of 12 months. But even then it's kind of hard for them to go in there and say, okay, well we've only seen these people for two weeks. I think that's the biggest hurdle. But in reality it's not really a hurdle because people are still doing it.

Right, exactly. And so, and even to get around that. Right. For an hoa. So, okay, great, we'll take out your property and we'll do a long term lease, 24 months against us and then we Airbnb it.

Yep.

You know what I mean? There you go. Now, yeah, we're the owners, but sublease under.

Under that sneaky bastard. That's a nice lease option. Are you seeing like lease options taking in some cases out there? Because we talked, I think we highlighted a little bit earlier with stuff like that, people coming in and doing that aspect of things and putting a down payment and then having a percentage of their lease going towards their purchase price.

To answer your question, sorry, guys. No, no. So not necessarily. Rates are so low right now. People are qualifying, they're qualifying the market. It's been, what is it, 10 years, 12 years since the market crashed. So now all of the people that had foreclosures, BKs and all that stuff, modifications, all that stuff is now gone off of their credit reports. So because of that, we haven't seen very many lease options. Our foreclosure inventory is very small here. It's very small here. And then also our just general inventory is very small. So nothing is staying on the shelves right now. So all inventory is just kind of going off. The benefit that we have that the advantage that we have versus anyone else is that since we're going direct to seller, there's our competitive edge. Right. So we can, since we have all of these tools available to us. Yeah, that's the one thing that sticks out from everyone else. We're able to call the seller, get the relationship and figure, solve their problem, be the solution.

Doctor. Yeah.

My royalties, kicking it on that one.

I think we're more like doing the lease options and stuff that we're trying to get into ourselves.

Yeah.

There are wholesalers here, though, in our market. That's all they specialize in.

Yes, right, Yep.

Yeah, it's just not a lot.

Yeah, exactly. It's very, very minimal. People that are doing that.

Yeah.

Mmm. Good times. Good times. Yeah. That's the thing. I was gonna ask the next question. Have you guys putting a community there together of investors, stuff like, you ever get anybody upset that you were able to make a solution happen for the bar and they weren't able to. You ever see any of that flashback, so.

Well, actually, the funny thing about that is, is that we have a very unique community here. We've all done business together. And a lot of the wholesalers and investors here, I've done business with all of them. And the funny thing is that there's been deals where I'm like, hey, I can't do this one, and I can't figure out how else we can solve it. There was a guy under foreclosure, had very little equity, had 25 grand of equity. It was in a 55 plus community. Boom. We got on the phone with four different investors to try to figure out a way to do it. We were going to do seller, we were going to do a wrap around it. And then at the end of the day, just the numbers didn't make sense because all of a sudden he was so underwater that to pay off the late fees plus the late payments and everything else, to reinstate the loan, it was just going to be too much. So we ended up giving the option for even a short sale. And that was the only option that we could possibly do. But we collaborated throughout the whole entire investment community. And yeah, we came up with these different solutions to try to help them.

It was him. That didn't work.

It was him. So you can't blame us on it. It was him.

But yeah, we do have a very, very good community here of the wholesalers and investors. It's a lot of collaboration here, a lot of collaboration. That' great thing here. Because no matter what, the thing is that when we get a deal and we don't know what to do with, we have the community that we have, we can easily take it to them without us thinking, well, they're going to take it from us. They are so like, oh, no, let's see what we can do to help you guys out with this.

Right? And then that's. That goes back to the mindset, right? We're not of a scarcity mindset. We're an abundance mindset. And so are they. And so then the wavelength comes back. It's like we're not taking anything away from so that we can all get to a better place. As a matter of fact, one of my peers, he was signing documents over there and he looked at the assignment fee and he's like, oh, wow, $60,000 assignment. And he was like, dude, that's awesome. That's awesome. I'm glad that he made that money. Right. A couple of my partners properties that we bought off of a separate wholesaler made their 20k on it and we were like, awesome, keep going. Send me more, we'll buy more.

Yep, exactly.

So, yeah, it's. Once again, it's that mindset. The mindset has to be the abundance mindset. And within our peer group and where we're at, it's one of those things that we're blessed. Not all markets are like that and we've heard some of the horror stories right out there. The reality of it is there's an abundance of deals. There's always an abundance of deals. And so if you get the right people around you, it's just gonna be a matter of time before you. You explode.

I agree.

That's good stuff. Yeah, that's it. Arizona's always had a big investor market, which is great. And it's always good to hear that it's a very cohesive or as I like to say, coopetition. People are competitive, but working together to make things happen. And you can't have that one. Sorry. All right, there's Georgia there. Oh, hey, I like that one.

Write that one down.

Well, it kind of gives me. Are you guys doing anything in the commercial markets? Are you seeing any changes on the commercial space? As we talked about long term care and some of that stuff happening, are you seeing anything else out there in that neck of the woods?

Yeah, I have a couple of developers that are looking into long term leases for commercial buildings. That's kind of where it's at. I mean, we've been seeing a little bit more of the commercial. The reality of it is is that that is such a location based business in certain areas of Phoenix. Right. Some are better than others. Right. So traffic is going to dictate what is going to be an actual good location versus one that's not. And so we've Been seeing them, but it's just not as dense as the regular single family residences out here. That make sense?

It totally makes sense.

Yeah.

It doesn't make sense. You guys are. Was it 90 days to foreclose in Arizona or is it 30 days? What's the foreclosure time frame in Arizona?

I've been 90 days.

90 days, yeah. Yeah. It's still relatively quickly. And you say you're not seeing that many foreclosures. You guys have a. Here in Texas, we foreclose the first Tuesday of the month for the most part. You guys, was it once a week out there or how often does the foreclosure action?

Yeah, I believe it was a week.

Once a week. Once a week, yeah. So we. So everything that we have here in regards to the data that we have available, everything is online. So we don't have to go to the courthouse to get anything that we need. It's already available to us online. And since it's already public information, well, what happens is that the competition is already all over it. So if there's a foreclosure on there or there's a 60, 90. Right. So say, for example, you get lists from TransUnion or Equifax that there's 60, 90 day lates on that. We're already jumping on that. They've already been called for the last four or five months where they've been keeping that rolling 60, and we're already on top of that. So chances are by the time that they get to that point where, okay, tomorrow it's going to foreclose, they give us a call and say, hey, I'll sell you the house tomorrow. Okay, no problem. There you go. Here's cash.

Don't you love that? They could have called you 60 days ago.

Exactly.

We've been telling them we've been posting our face on Facebook and Instagram like, hey, sell us the house.

But I'll tell you something, you still do see a lot of banks doing extensions on the auctions. Yeah. You do see that a lot, right?

Yeah, I think that's everywhere. People have come up. They're either filing BK to delay it or doing a TRO or some sort of temporary restraining order or trying to find a solution. The banks extended it for a little while.

Yep.

We've done that with. We'll suspend the foreclosure on a note deal because they're in a trial payment period. So if they miss a month, then we can always kick it back and get rocking all the way back in that's awesome.

Okay.

Now everybody's favorite asset is apartments these days, for the most part. Are you seeing a big influx of that out there? How's your multifamily market? When we're talking apartments, for the most part, apartments here.

To get apartments here, it's very expensive. So what we're starting to do and starting to look at is looking outside the Phoenix market. Yeah, for the most part, it's pretty expensive to get apartments here.

Mm. Now, outside the Phoenix market, you mean outside other areas? Other smaller areas in Arizona or outside the state altogether?

Outside the state altogether, yeah.

We just started diving into the Wisconsin market. Southeastern Wisconsin.

Good stuff. Yeah. I gotta love Green Bay, that neck of the woods. The one thing about Milwaukee or Wisconsin is always that property taxes are so high up there quite a lot.

Yeah, I know.

That's what we started. Not. Yep.

That was the first thing that we noticed when we bought our first one. We were like, what?

How much we're gonna fight those taxes every year? Exactly. How long is the tax foreclosure in Wisconsin?

Yeah, I know.

Drag it out there. Drag it out there. Definitely. You guys, we talked about a lot of influxing from California and probably getting Southern and Northern California people coming in, trying to keep up with affordability because it's still an affordable market compared to everything in your next door neighbor out there for the most part. If you guys could look at a crystal ball, I know that's a big deal for all of us because that was the case, we'd be in Vegas. Or do you think things are going to go and I asked this because you guys have such a different background and you've got a great mix of being a realtor and mortgage broker and understanding investor market. Where do you think the market's going to go for Phoenix here in, say, the next 24 to 36 months?

I personally think there's going to be a correction here pretty soon, within that time frame. Like I said earlier, I don't think it's going to be like it was back in 2008, because we don't have all those negative M programs. You know, you get into not pay interest, not pay anything. I don't think it's gonna be that big. That's where I think it's gonna head to, but I don't think it's gonna be like 2008.

A lot of our peers, and including us as well, we're gonna be sitting on cash. Right. And there's a reason for that. We expect that the market's gonna Do a correction doesn't mean that we're not buying. We haven't stopped buying. It's just a matter of we're being a little more careful in regards to what we purchase and how we purchase it. We're doing more due diligence on it to make sure that, that it's the right property that fits what we need on it and things like that. Is there a correction going to come? Yeah, we don't know. When a lot of people say, well, Trump is still in office and if he's going to continue on, things are going to continue. A lot of people say the opposite. You know, the answer is I don't know. Right. The only thing we can do is protect what we can and whatever's in our ability. Right. So control what we can control. Right. So okay, well, we'll just be a little bit. Do a little more due diligence on what we buy, be careful on what we buy and sit in a little more cash. So when the properties come back and they're cheaper.

Boom, boom.

Yes, boom.

Cha ching on that. Exactly. Mark, do you want to add anything to that?

These guys will think I'm insane, but I don't think it's going to be as soon as 24 to 36 months with the correction. I think that we'll see a downtick in interest rates on mortgages to make things a little bit more affordable. The UK is already giving 10 year notes at 0% interest. I see a direction, or I think that direction. We're going to head the same way.

International monetary policy guy there, that's good stuff.

That's why all three of us get along. That's the reason why you can agree.

To disagree in a circle there cards right now. The thing I always like to ask, like I just did. So where do you think the market is going to. But you guys have already talked about diving outside of other markets, looking at different things out there. What made you choose the Wisconsin market? What made you kind of look at that aspect compared to others right now?

Yeah, we got boots in the ground.

Okay.

Realtor, we got everything over there. And we got Mark, he's a local.

I actually grew up in Wisconsin area that we're trying to invest in. So I know some of the areas a little bit more detailed than if we just picked one off of a dark.

And the main thing that we're doing in that area is mainly for cash flow.

Mm.

Buy and hold, right?

Yeah. I mean that was my thing is the numbers. I was like, wait a second. So we can buy a property at $60,000 and then all of a sudden rent it at a thousand twelve hundred bucks every single month. Yeah, you know, why not? Why not?

That's our strategy there.

This is also our. We've come up to our goals collaboratively, is to have financial freedom.

Yeah.

At the end of the day is that I want to travel a bunch and I don't want to have to worry about where our next paycheck is coming. Right. So that was the initiative to go ahead and go out there and let's start cash flowing on these properties. So you look at those numbers, you're like, okay, so then even if the taxes are high out there, we could still make it work. There's all kinds of different strategies that you could use out there, but just in general, that number, your rate of return is insane.

Right? The cap rates are good.

Yep, yep, Definitely is, man. That's. When you look at it. Speaking of rent rates, is there a rate number in Phoenix that is kind of a sign of. It's either a rough area, I'll give you an example, like Columbus, Michigan, anything below $500 is a two gun alley, you know.

And we are living in the wild, wild west.

Yeah. But even I guess rents here are getting pretty insane as well.

Yeah. Right. And like to my point before, since we don't go up and we go out, a lot of the areas that were two gun alleys or two gun properties, they've been gentrified. They're starting or if not, they're being bought up right now because there's no more market. If you start going to the outskirts, the outskirts are actually being built. Right. So now the land, now those are all the new builds. So our market is a little unique. Not a lot of inventory. So everybody's just scooping it up and fixing it up.

Is there a number though? Like monthly number, monthly rent rate number.

It just kind of like at like a two bedroom and it's under $1,000. Steer away from it.

Okay, that's exactly. That makes sense. It makes a lot of sense there, guys. Well, hey, man, what's the best way people to tap into you? I mean, you guys are building a community out there as well. I mean, there's been one out there, but you have your guys, your own community follow you and stuff like that.

Yep, absolutely. Yeah. We have a monthly meetup. A monthly meetup with local place and obviously the podcast that we have, we bring on special guests and we, we do all those things to try to connect with our investor Community and help out.

Yeah, give back.

That was the cue for you to tell me the website where people.

Is our actual website. Cash now homes. You can find us on Facebook, Instagram, everywhere else at MoneymakingMoney podcast.

There we go. There we go. Good job, Mark.

Yes.

Pick up the slack of those two.

Slack. I was waiting for him to say it.

You did the whole olay and in Mark's like. Good stuff guys. Good stuff. Love it too. Appreciate you taking time your busy schedule Mark, thanks for setting us all up, bud. It's amazing what will happen when you, you start following people on Instagram and real estate and then checking out guys. It just goes to show that connections are just one connection away from really expanding your knowledge of the market out there. Do you mind if our listeners reach out to you guys? I'm sure you guys don't. Whether they're buying, selling or looking for.

More anything, questions or anything, we always are answering back on our Instagram, Facebook, all of our socials. Yep. So yeah, by all means reach out and we'd be happy to help out.

Yeah, a couple pretty sweet wholesale deals on your website. I just noticed too. I think the first one had a nice little spread there for everybody.

Absolutely, absolutely. Hit us up.

Thanks so much guys. I appreciate so much coming on the note closure show.

Right, thank you.

Thanks guys. Alright guys, Note nation. After you heard it from these wildcatters out there doing some great stuff in the Phoenix market. Market is doing strong as he says, growing out a lot of opportunity. You just got to know where to look at and that's what's so great about having a great investor community in a local market to help you avoid making avoid you making a dud and then helping you find a deal. So go out, take a look at them, check out their podcast as well and check out their website and you go out, take some action buddy. And we'll see you all at the top, everybody. Bye.