EP 575 -Creating Joint Venture Opportunities For Your Business With Jay Fiset

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This is the no Closers show where you get the latest developments in distressed note investing and learn the secrets of how you can control millions of dollars worth of property for pennies on the dollar. Get educated and entertained by someone who has closed thousands of deals and lives to support you in achieving the same. Now here's your host CEO of We.

Close Notes, Scott Carson.

Good morning, good afternoon, good evening everybody. Welcome to this episode of the Note Closure Show. As always, Scott Carson. Excited to be here today. Big shout out to our Notenation listeners all across the country and our 17 different AMF rated channels. But once again, thank you to all you guys are subscribed to the podcast. Love the reviews, love the comments coming in. Thank you so much. We'll definitely be doing some more shout outs throughout the week on the next couple episodes for those. But I am honored to have a very self proclaimed smartass on today as a special guest. Met this guy in New Orleans a few weeks ago, hit it off, saw what he was doing and it was a very powerful thing for our listeners out there and our students and everybody that follows us out there. And before I bring him on, I think so many people, they're getting to real estate, they're getting in the note investing side of things that often can be kind of daunting when it comes to what the heck do I do, how do I start marketing, I have no network, what do I do? And I think if you're one of those people that are running through those fears and scarcity, maybe a wallflower, networking events or even have the introvert that you're just scared to say what the hell you do. I think this is the episode you definitely want to listen to. So we're honored to have our buddy here. He's a best selling author, student of human nature, he's an avid outdoorsman at five star hotels. I love that he's smartass. Can see and reflect your life mission in 5 minutes flat. Loves having two sons so he can play with his boy's toys. He still fantasizes about his wife of over 25 years. Loves ideas but loves results even more. And he can simultaneously laugh and cry for different reasons at the same time, which is funny. But the thing that you have to realize is this guy is dedicated to instigating a global movement of conscious creators and supporting people to organize their life resources around their passions and gifts. And that's why we're honored to have our buddy Jay Fisette joining us this morning from Alberta, Canada. North of the border, eh?

Hey there's snow out there. I just went for a quick walk and it's like, damn it, one of these days it's going to go away. One of these days. Thanks for having me, Scott. I really appreciate being here.

Hey, man, we are honored to have you. And you and I were just talking a few minutes before the event we met at our buddy Mark Wade, and I just had him on a couple episodes at the Virtual Summits. And I loved what you did at the event. The first part of when you were actually talking about how so many people fail at networking and masterminds, and you see that with a variety of things. I've seen it. You and I both been a part of so many different masterminds adventures. Like, oh, come on, this sucks. What am I doing here? Why am I spending money to take away from my life and family when something's not working? And you're kind of passionate about that a little bit, huh, Jay?

Well, you know, quite literally, I actually have another brand which is called Mastermind to millions, where we teach experts, entrepreneurs to position, launch, and lead their own mastermind groups. And it came as a result of doing personal development work for 30 years and then creating these support groups. So honest to goodness, it's like, nothing pains me more than being in a crappy mastermind group. It's like, why are we bothering? So a couple of great questions and an environment and an intention and some transparency and creating a container that actually works. It's freaking magic. And I see time gain. People on the one side of it trying to do a money grab because it looks like it's an easy thing to do. They're just sitting around talking and on the other side of it, coming to masterminds, waiting for the miracle thing to happen without actually showing up and doing what's necessary. So, yeah, I can go on a little bit of a rant about that. If the show is only 45 minutes long, we shouldn't probably start there.

No, but you and I both agree to that. That's the one thing I think is the biggest misconception, because I think we both agree that everybody and their dog is having a mastermind. I've had a mastermind in my note business for seven years, but we've always focused on what can we do. It's not about my bottom line, what can we do about helping those that show up and how can I play full out with those that are there to help them overcome any obstacles, help them take their business to the next level and really, really help them have those Breakthroughs, because I'm honest. We're open. It's a safe environment so people can really share and grow as entrepreneurs. And honestly, you just don't see that every place.

Yeah. And it takes some skill, and it takes that. What you said, the honesty is like, I'm a big fan, and I tell everybody this is that I fail more than anybody I know. And it's because I take more risks than anybody I know. And for people who work with me, quite frankly, a lot of what they're paying for is my stupid mistakes that I will tell you the absolute truth about so that you don't make. It's like, don't fall in the hole. Don't fall in the hole. I just said, don't fall in the hole. Grab them by the hair. Don't fall in the hole. And it's like, okay. And then it's like, look, just to be clear about this, I just saved you $27,000. And this is why. Oh, I thought I should have walked that way. Those are the pieces that if you can create the environment in the mastermind, where it is the good, the bad, and the ugly, and everyone is willing to come with that on the table, that's where the magic happens. And I think sometimes. I think it's actually created by sometimes what I'm going to call the money grab on the one hand, and then people come in attached to their ego on the other end, and that's just a recipe for disaster on wheels. So I have a whole bunch of vetting questions that I ask people to ask about with masterminds, and if they can't ask those questions and get meaningful answers, then they just run like hell.

Any of those that you'd like to share?

Oh, certainly, yeah. If we want to go down that road. That's awesome. So first and foremost is this. How long has it been going on? Who can I talk to that has actually been in it? Both that has stayed and that has left. So I know both versions of that entire process. I want to know what the financial scenario is as well. Is everyone in the room actually paying the same amount of money? So I once went to a Florida Mastermind, and it's like, for crying out loud, I teach this process. I know what it is, but don't bullshit me about it. By the way, are we pg?

Yeah, we're okay.

Okay. All right. He came out and it was like, so we're in this room, and there's a very heavy hitter from the real estate world in the room. In fact, he Created the first real estate infomercial way back in the 80s. So I know you know, but I won't say. And so we're going through the process, and I know he is their anchor member, used to draw people in, and by the way, I went there to meet him for that purpose, and so I'm fine with it. So I know he's the anchor member. I know that he probably has a clip. I know that he did not pay. I know all those sorts of things. And the first thing out of the mouths of the people leading it is like, everybody at this table has paid exactly the same amount of money. You just started lying to me, like, no, no, no, no. So those are like, I want to know what the financial arrangement is, and if you get a heavy hitter in the room that I have access to, I'm happy to pay for that. But don't bs. Does that make sense? So I want to know what the financial arrangements are. And there are. I've been in a premium mastermind, like with Jeff Walker, for example, the creator of the product launch for you. That's a hell of a difficult mastermind to get into. And when I was there, it was 36,000 bucks a year. But there are people in that room who are only paying 10, and they've been there since the beginning. And that price was grandfathered. All well and fine. If I had chosen to stay, I'd have been grandfathered at 36, and I assume in five years it'll be 50. But the deal is known to everyone at the table, so those are really the biggies. And then the other part I want to know is, what is your facilitation experience? And is this actually something where you're going to facilitate? Because what I'm looking for is a group that shares network wisdom, resources, and experience. And the keyword is group, not guru. And if the guru's doing more of the talking than the group, then frankly, I'm not interested. That is not why I came here. If I wanted to hire you as a coach, I'd hire you as a coach and we'd talk one on one. I don't need to do that with 32 people in the room. Yeah, I love that those are my biggies.

I totally agree with all those. It's important to know what the setup is, how long it is, why people stay, why people have left. Because not every masterminds for everybody. I mean, I've had some great masterminds that I've left that I recommend still to others because they just Weren't fitting on me, but I'm a little bit of a niche aspect. I know you've done the same thing too now. So let's dive in a little bit. Let's pivot a little bit here and talk about helping people overcome. Because yes, masterminds are great and it's a great way to really expand your network. But a lot of people may not have 10 grand, 25 grand, 36 grand to get Rocket on the one. And so there's other ways for them to expand their network and really kind of, as you like to say, build their joint venture relationships out there. And you have a really great thing that I loved that I think I'd love for you to share here today is kind of your 10, your 10 by 10 model for the most part.

Absolutely. Can I share slides that? Okay. Perfect.

For those that are on the radio and audio podcast, you guys will be able to go back and catch this slide on the YouTube channel. We'll keep a link to it there as well on all our show notes. But yeah, go ahead, let's pull it up and we can walk through it there.

And what we're going to talk about is this is a strategy and I'll just give you a couple of chapter titles to contextualize this and to make more sense of it. So my little guy's playing hockey and we're in city championships right now. And I sit down and I got this hack and I think it's actually exercise induced asthma is what it is because I've been pushing hard. Anyway, we sit on the benches and we're all kind of packed and then I cough a couple times and then on both sides you can see this by the end of the game, it's like we're sitting alone.

And there's like one way to stand out in a crowd.

Correct. Anyhow, so my brand, which is called JVology, the perfect mix of people, fund and profit, we teach a variety of joint venture processes to build relationships, to scale business. All those pieces, really what we're after is a. When we build this model, well, it is a steady stream of free leads on the front end and a recurring passive income on the back end by setting up what we call our upstream and downstream partners. And we do that at live events. We just finished JVology Live and JVology Summit in San Diego, which were awesome. We do that in digital programs so people just do it on their own. We do one on one coaching. We do year long consulting basically in this space. We do it front to back from what the hell's a jv? All the way through to introducing multimillion dollar deals to one another in our community. So that's the broad strokes. Now, where I always ask people to start is this idea of how do I begin to understand my upstream and my downstream? So I have the steady stream of leads and I have recurring income. So the first step is this. There you are. And for those of you at home, I'm going to describe this. So this makes some sense. So you might not even have to go to the. Go to the. To the YouTube channel, unless you want to, is that there is a client journey. The people that you serve, the people that pay you money, the people that want your services, the people that buy your houses, the people that sell you a note, the people like, these are your clients. Okay? And we want you to really focus on the client's journey. And here's the honest God truth about most entrepreneurs and where they go awry over and over and over and over again, is that most entrepreneurs aren't focused on the client. They're focused on their magic trick. And when I say magic trick, I mean the thing that they do. It's like, oh, hey, I could finance your house. Or, oh, hey, I could sell you a house. Or oh, hey, I could. You insert the blank. Right? And the truth is, most of us are in love with our magic trick. And frankly, we should be or we shouldn't be doing it. Right? So they're in love with their magic trick, and they should be. But it is at the expense of understanding the big picture of their clients. And what happens is, if you guys can imagine a home, there's this gray arrow which represents the client journey. Then there's you, which is a blue dot. And that blue dot intersects the client's journey at a particular point in time where they want and need the solution that you offer. Let's make no mistake about it. Your clients come to you because they have a problem. And if they didn't have a problem that you solved, you would be functionally irrelevant to them. They wouldn't give a rat's. You know, what about you? So most of us focus on how do I find this one person at this one moment in time right in front of me so that I can actually get a damn client and make some money?

Fine.

Can you survive that way? Sure. But it's incredibly narrow and it is a very transactional process. And generally speaking, you are seen as nothing more than a service provider. So the solution to this, and by the Way, Scott, I know you do a bunch of these things, like crazy. Anything you want to add or adapt or tweak or adjust, like, just jump on in and say about this. Okay, no problem. Okay, so imagine the client's journey. And to your. If you're standing there to your left, just imagine to your left is before. And what I want you to understand is right this very second, there are depending upon your niche, depending upon your industry, depending upon what you do. There are a thousand, ten thousand, a hundred thousand, a million people who are engaging in something that causes the problem that you solve. They're reading a book, they're buying a real estate program, they're getting divorced. They're putting a house up for sale. They are empty, nesting, and the house is too big. They lost their job, and they're not being able to make their mortgage payments. Something is happening that causes this problem that you solve. Now, please understand this. The better we understand the client's journey, the easier this is. And most of us are so focused on the magic trick that we never take two or three steps back to say, well, wait a second. The people that love my magic trick the most, they are all going through X or they are all going through Y. So we called this before our upstream. Okay? So this is the people, the courses, the programs, the books, the experiences, the life stage that causes the problem we solve. So that's before, or we call it upstream, and then there's downstream, which is after. And after is, let's make no mistake about it, with every problem we solve, we create at least 7 to 15 additional problems for our clients. Now, many people go and say, I don't create any problems. Bullshit you do. And it's as simple as if, in fact, you did a big transaction, you had an epic win, you now have have caused a problem of a tax process. You've got to figure out how you're going to mitigate those taxes, or you now have liquid capital that needs to be invested at a rate that is comparable to the previous deal that you did. We are always causing problems with our solutions. So the simple idea here is there's this river upstream that is bringing the ideal client who has the problem that you solve, and then you pass your clients off to the people that solve the problems that you create. Please hear this. Giving your clients better service, giving them a more complete solution, solving more of their problems. And here's the thing that if you take nothing from this whole conversation, write this down, is that when you do this, well, you're no longer a Service provider. You're a trusted advisor.

In this case, in our world, especially in the notes space, the after face would be basically our servicing companies that once we've taught people how to buy deals, they have a servicing company they use, or it's an attorney that they're using to foreclose with, or maybe it's a new group they're attending to help them move their reos. It's a lot of vendor relationships for the best part. But as you say, it's kind of like an inner circle. Hey, here's who we love to use. Our trusted advisors that we would recommend you use. Correct, Correct.

We have vetted them. We like them. We know their program and product is great. We would send our mom there. And we know if something goes awry, and it always does, this is business, shit happens, right? If something goes awry, that it's a phone call away and it is fixed. And so that's the big idea. So here's what we're after. Now, what I want you to understand is that so there's a big gray line, and that is the client's journey. And that client's journey is just doing its thing. Now, we identify the people that create the problem we solve most consistently, most powerfully, and most directly for us. And quite literally, we simply go to them and we say, hey, you know that when you do your thing with this client, that it now unfolds this particular problem? Yeah, yeah, we know that. And you don't solve that problem on your own, do you? No, no, no. That's something that's another person's business. It's like, well, just to be clear about this, I am perhaps one of the world's best at solving that problem, and I would love to help make you more money by serving your clients better. And what you're going to do and what we're going to cut is a deal that says when this person comes to you and you know you have created this problem, you simply refer them to me. And when you refer them to me, we will have a tracking system. And there's a million different tools. Doesn't much matter. We will have a tracking system, and when that person makes a purchase from me, then I'm going to send you money. And what happens is you end up getting paid. Please hear this. When these referrals, and this is something that people don't necessarily follow, which I just think is very important to point out, is that when we do those deals for the person that referred us, the money we send them is Completely bottom line money. It is dollars added to profit. There are no additional expenses, there are no delivery costs. There's nothing else to do except add that to your profit line on your income statement. So lots of people are like, well, I don't know if I want to refer them to them because maybe they won't have enough money to buy my next program or maybe they won't participate in my next deal. It's like all of that stuff is nothing but scarcity bs. Truth is one great referral to somebody who truly solves the problem and you get paid for is the most profitable process in your business, full stop.

This would be like talking with people. And I'll say, maybe it's like the local real estate club here who's educating people before getting referred to us for a class which we turn around and cut a check back for a split like, hey, thanks for coming in, or hey, they invested with us. Hey, we'll throw you back a marketing bonus, but we want to refer them back to you or refer them on to somebody else who's the next step. Or basically it's before they get ready for us to solve that magical problem. And then it's a win, win back and forth.

Precisely. So this process, please understand this, it's harder to get upstream partners than it is to get downstream partners because you need a higher degree of trust, you need a higher degree of certainty of delivery. You need all those sorts of things. But when you get it right, here's what we know. 10 upstream partners, 10 solid upstream partners is actually more leads and opportunity than any business. However it's designed right now, before doing this can handle 10 good upstream partners. Always means you've got to change systems, you've got to add staff, you've got to put a new salesperson in place, you've got to do something because it's that powerful. And please understand this. And this is the other part about why it's so profitable is you don't pay a penny for those leads. You only pay for the result of a client. And that's where this gets, frankly, dead sexy. So that's the front end. Let's just talk quickly about the back end. Now when we're perfectly clear about, yes, this is what I do and I cause a whole variety of problems. And let's be clear about this, the real estate world is rife with downstream opportunities. It's like the second we change financing, the second we buy new property, the second we release property, like everything from literally moving insurance, maintenance, contracting, utilities, cable, like, it just, it's ridiculous. The amount of downstream opportunities there are now, sometimes that's difficult to manage. So obviously we want to be focused on the ones that are most aligned to us and frankly, are most profitable to us. So we simply create a system where we have our downstream vetted suppliers, our downstream vetted partners, our downstream vetted vendors. And we say this, it's like, look, I know you spend some money on advertising. I saw you on Facebook. I see you in the yellow pages. I see I'm old. For those of you, it's like, do they still have yellow Pages? We're in Canada. We still have the. I won't say it. No, we don't still have the Telegraph, but it's not far off. No, but in all seriousness, that we can see where they're spending their marketing dollars. We can see that they're sponsoring somebody's event, we can see that those things are going on. And we just say, look, how about this? How about whenever I deliver a client to you, you pay me and I have this steady stream of clients and they all recognize that when I do my magic trick and solve this problem, that they now have these other seven things. And in fact, I'm going to build right into my system a way to point out the seven things that they should know about if they don't, and highly recommend that they come see you. And on that recommendation, there's going to be a tracking link. There's going to be a process for that. Every time they buy, you just send me money. And here's what's going to transpire, that you will save money on your marketing. You'll have a steady stream of clients. And I'm going to. By the way, the money they send us is pure profit for us. It goes directly to our bottom line and everybody wins. Clients better taken care of. Our partners are happy because we've either sent them leads or sent them money. And we're happy because our business is more reliable, consistent, and profitable. That's it in a nutshell.

Yeah, that's the beautiful thing, is that it's a win win. People don't care if you're getting a kickback or you're getting a commission because they're like, hey, this guy's still gonna take care of me. And most, most businesses will have that figured into their, you know, their pricing point. They can refer a referral. I mean, I have affiliate relationships with a lot of people. I have a lot of JVs in place with a variety of our vendors because it's a true win win. I bring value by delivering clients. My clients like it because they take good care of my. They get, they're taken care of. It's a trusted source and as I always tell them, hey, if something's going wrong, you're not getting the service that you think you deserve. Give me a phone call, I'm glad to jump on the phone or an email and solve the situation. It's that whole higher level of customer service I think that comes with it versus just being a walk in off the street kind of client.

And here's I've been at this 33 years and what I know to be true and when people sort of get their about this, it's because number one, they've designed a closed system. Number two, they're operating from scarcity. Number three, well frankly they're probably not making enough money. And because of the first two, let's be clear about it, it's like, can I do that Anyway in that process, as soon as people begin to expand to this, I've sent clients literally sitting at my desk with credit card in hand and it's like I want to buy your stuff. It's like I'm not the best person for this. It's like, could I help you? Yeah. Do I have experience there? Yeah. Is it my wheelhouse? No, you need to go see Bob and Bob's frankly going to charge you more and do a better job. So you should go see Bob. Those circumstances I wish I had kept better track Scott, because this might seem anecdotal because I haven't kept super track but I would wager that every single person that I have ever said no to buying something and sent them somewhere else has come back and spent more money than they were going to spend in that initial purchase. And it's the difference between service provider and trusted advisor. And we just can't keep pursuing as the world changes, as we get more connected, as social media explodes and as paid ads get more expensive. More expensive. We just can't keep playing for the short win. It will kill everyone is the truth of the matter.

That's I'm glad you said that Jay, because I'm a believe that if you're going to be, I mean you can be a flash in the pan. We've seen plenty of people come in that have something, it's a flash up and their gift but then they don't build that down relationship or the upstream relationships and they're not there. They don't build long term in six months or A year they're no longer visible because they don't have that lifeblood of really adding value to the client journey, value the client's businesses in a variety of things.

So this isn't real estate, but I thought I should just show some quick examples of our mastermind program of the types of relationships so that people can connect the dots because sometimes people feel like upstream. What, who, where, why? So for us, so our mastermind domains program, this is the program we were talking about earlier, teaches coaches, authors, experts, entrepreneurs to position, launch and lead their own masterminds. So for us our upstream is really simple and straightforward IPEC coach training. So any, I'm willing to bet you got a bunch of people in your world who have gotten coach certification and coach training programs, which is a marvelous business card to be super hungry for most and IPEC coach certification when they came to us and they said well look, we know many of the coaches are suffering and the one on one time is just trading time for money. So could we take some of your content about masterminds, put it in our certification program and then if people want to actually get out of the one on one and get to one to many where they have at least a little leverage, then they can buy your program. It's like that's perfect. So that is an embedded content solution for a real problem that they have which is their certified coaches who can't make money make sense. Lisa Sasevich is another great one. So she teaches people how to speak and sell from stage. But lots of people are speaking and selling from stage and they're selling a book and it's like buy my book for 12 bucks. Well it's like great and hit the drive through at McDonald's on the way home. That's all that's going to transpire. So for us, if they do have a book and they have some intimacy, we can help them position a premium mastermind that is the experiential, intimate version of that and sell from stage like Matt. So that works out fantastic. Jane Powers is another speak to sell trainer. Same deal. Dr. Carrie Rose, she works with Thinkific and she teaches people how to do online courses and programs. And if you have an online course and an online program, the truth of the matter is people want more of you. If that has been effective and powerful, then frankly you should be looking for a premium program to say hey, we could come and we could talk about this and be able to share network wisdom, resources and experiences about this. Come do this. So those are just some examples. I'M not going to go through all of them. But if you think about it, each one of those people causes the problem that I solve, which is I want to serve as a coach or I want to serve as a speaker or I want to serve as a educator. And then what? So I sold a $397 digital program that doesn't go very far, but people want more intimacy, so give them a mastermind. Make sense?

Yes, sir.

And then the downstream for us in the Mastermind to Millions program is pretty simple and straightforward. We help people get success with their first mastermind group. And then it's like, holy crap, this is awesome. How do I scale it? Well, now you need a webinar. Now you need a CRM. Now you need some digital funnel to get you through that process. And now you need a community with which to farm and build more relationships and those sorts of things. Now you need a hosting thing for your digital course. Now you need somebody to build all that crap. It's like, great. These are all of our trusted advisors who will take tremendous care of you. And just to be clear, nothing on here in terms of the people I'm talking about are hypothetical. These are all real deals that we've had in place in some cases for decades.

I've got a couple. We've got some similar after affiliates too. Infusionsoft and key clickfunnels. I mean, there's a variety of different things because you've got to have the tools to go build something and those tools aren't. You want to make sure you're using the right kind of tools. Not if you need a pickaxe, go get the right pickaxe. Not versus a hand shovel.

Right, Correct, correct, correct. And so just adding sort of the wrap up to this piece of the 10 by 10. So 10 upstream, 10 downstream, well selected and taken care of in our experience. Adds a zero to your bottom line profit. So if you made 10,000 bucks, you're making 100,000 bucks. If you're making 100,000 bucks, you're making a million bucks. And I'm not talking top line sales, I'm talking bottom line sales. Be clear about this. Many people are like, wow, that's bs. But this isn't hyperbole. These are conversations with real clients who have built the process. It's not that hard. But what it does mean, and this is the part that always sort of makes me smile a little bit, is that it works so well that of course it causes a whole new set of problems, which is team Support structure, automation, systems, sales. It's one of those things where it's like, Jesus, if you're gonna do this, you need to do this and be prepared to deal with the beauty of a business that's working.

That's the truth. It is bottom of the line. It's always nice to have checks and wires show up unknown. I get deposited like, whoa, where'd that come from? Oh, great. Oh, I got that for just referring out what I already use. You know what I mean? What I like to use, and I think that's one of the big things, too, Jay, is that because it's coming from a trusted source not being well, here, use this because they're gonna pay me the most spiff. No, you want to make sure, hey, this is what I use and this is what I like. It's always that warm referral adds a lot of value for a variety of things.

Well, and it's interesting because I often refer things that I don't get paid as well on. And it's just as simple as the truth of the matter is this doesn't have the long tail that something else has. And I'm talking about software in this case specifically. But if you're at this level, you shouldn't be doing anything less and you shouldn't be fiddling around with something smaller, because that's what has to happen. And by the way, you know, I get a little happy talking about this, but here's the other piece about this is to be completely transparent about it. It's like, look, I could recommend you this and I'd get paid this, or I could recommend you this and I get paid this, and this is the right thing for you. It means less for me, but it's the right thing for you. And what I want you to know as a trusted advisor, that my job is the right thing for you, not for me. And when people truly get that, then it's like, there's never any resistance about using an affiliate link. There's never any resistance about what that transaction is because the recommendation is based on need of yours, not mine.

Now, what's a good exercise for our listeners out there that are thinking about this, that need to implement this, what's the thing that they can do to help them kind of prime the pump?

Well, So I love that question, and I have, and I don't know if this is possible, Scott, but let me just show this for those who are there. I have this little worksheet as well, which I can make available to people, and I Don't know if there's a Does that work for the show notes and those sorts of things. If I gave you this, yeah, you.

Can send over to me and we'll put a link in there, or we've got a link for them to use for sure.

Truly, I hadn't thought of this until this question, but I'm happy to share this and if it would work. Really, the assignment is pretty simple. For those of you who are home, can't see this. Basically what it is is a little sketch of this model, the upstream and the downstream, with our before a list of 10 names or after a list of 10 names. It is the simplest thing in the universe. But the assignment is this is to really, truly fill that form out. Who are 10 of my potentially best upstream partners? Those people that please hear this cause or reveal or diagnose the problem that I have. Who are they? So list them for starters. Then the same thing at the back end. The problems that I create. Who are the 10 people or the 10 organizations that I think that I think could make a monumental difference? And for goodness sakes, go and talk to them, go and play with them. Go and see what's going on there. And that's really the starting point. And not just writing it down, picking up the phone and saying, hey, you have these clients that have this problem that I solve, and I would like for us to, number one, take better care of them, and I'd like to make you more money. Do you want to have a chat? And that's the upstream conversation. The downstream conversation is I have a whole lack of clients that are looking for the solution that you provide. And I would be happy to endorse you and to drive that traffic to you if we can negotiate a fair commission or a fair affiliate fee that works for you and works for me, and in an ideal world, saves a little money for my client. That's the conversation. Nothing more, nothing less.

It's either a yes or a no. Okay, if it's not a no, then moving on. If it's a no, then move on and find somebody else. It's the same kind of field.

Can I add to that, Scott?

Yeah, Jay, please do. Yes.

Over and over and over again. I get texts and emails and questions and Facebook messages. It's like, so I had the conversation and they don't really understand JVs, and I'm trying to teach them. And what do I do? It's like, you do what Scott said, you move on. If they don't get it, they don't get it. If you want to be really bold, you send them a ticket to the next JVology lives and we'll whack them upside the head for three days to get them to think about what the hell money they're missing and how easy their life could be. But to try to convince somebody who doesn't get this is like pushing a rope uphill. Move the hell on and send them the link to jvologylive.com let's talk about.

That because that's one of the most powerful things that I've seen is your JVology events. Just talk a little about that for our listeners out there because I think honestly one of the best things that people can go to to help their businesses. Exactly. And doing exactly what you just talked about and you focus on heavily on what we've just talked over the last 30 minutes, talk about JVology.

So JVology has a variety of different events. So I'm going to talk about our intro event that is really aimed at what I'm going to call beginners and intermediates primarily. And really what it is is that we for three and a half days teach how to structure your business model for this upstream, downstream, we teach strategies and processes to have the conversation to create what we call a compelling JV invitation. And by the way, gang, I would just, I would invite you all to entertain that language as opposed to the JV pitch. I keep track of it. And the JV invitation works way better. I mean, let's be clear about it. So do you want some random person pitching you on some crap you may or may not want? Or do you want an invitation to a party that's going to make you a bunch of money with people that you like? It works. So we craft the JV invitation and quite literally we structure the event where it is. Both education and some people call it networking, but it's really not. It's, it's relationship building. So you will have an opportunity with a hundred people in the room to make a JV invitation with every single one of them. Now, please understand the purpose of it actually isn't even to get partners right there. It's to practice it, to understand it, to understand. It's like, hey, you're my upstream. So this is this conversation. You're my downstream. This is this conversation. Like you're neither. But tell me what you are because there's another 98 people in this room that when I find somebody, I'm going to head your way. So what happens is we Begin to understand how this problem solution upstream downstream process works. We meet 100 people and in that process people always, always leave with real JV deals. It's not the end and I think it's part of the magic of how we design the process and the activity that there's no big like hey, I'm going to get you. It's like, hey, let's explore this, see what transpires. And people always leave with deals. So that's its prime aim. But we go through what we call the joint venture success wheel. Teach people core strategies about launch campaigns for both webinars for Facebook, what we call Facebook challenges for the full on product launch formula process. We teach them what those models are and how they can adapt them to their particular needs. It is one of the most comprehensive programs under the sun on this topic. And literally I get people who I had a gentleman fly to San Diego from Calgary to attend. He's a digital marketer, he runs a digital marketing agency. And day two is like my brain's exploding. I thought I was an expert at this. I've been charging premium dollars for this and I just discovered like I don't know shit. I don't. So what we deliver is first and foremost this is what you should do. So you have the contextual understanding. Then we actually show you how to do it. This is the process, this is the conversation. This is how you structure your partner page. This is how you structure your resources page. We build all those, show all those things. Then the most important part that nobody else does, we just give you the people to partner with. You don't have to go find them, for crying out loud. You're sitting at a table and their job is to do an invitation with you. Honest to God, I mean this in all Canadian humility, it's the best damn thing you will ever see in that domain.

Well, that's one of the most powerful things is that you can go a lot further working with people to support you versus trying to go out and reinvent the wheel on their own. You feel the pain because I think we've all started there. When we all get started, we don't know what to do. Starting off, I'm going to do an email blast. I'm going to have 100% of people sign up for something and they're not always the right people. And that's the most powerful thing is you can bring on five or 10 people that are referring you the right type of clients you're looking for. I mean that's kind of the power of a B and I group is that you've got people every week sitting around to send you referrals that may fall into it, but not everybody has that aspect or is going to show up to that. And your JVology does that. You got people split up and you're right, you have to go around and meet with people, tell me what you do, what's your pain, what's your problem that you solve. And let's figure out how to work together. And more often than not, you will be able to find something as able either A to solve an issue or solve a problem for people. Right?

100%. And by the way, I often have people who say to me like I'm still not clear about this upstream downstream and if that happens, then here's another assignment that I would. If anybody's at home, I'm not sure what the hell he's talking about. Number one is this. If you cannot articulate the problem you solve in a sentence, you're not clear about what you do. And getting a JV partner is damn near impossible. So I'll just share an example. The problem I solve is inexpensive leads for entrepreneurs and recurring passive income that help their businesses succeed. That's it. So if you go that's it. And if you can't say it that clearly, you're not clear enough. So that's step number one. You have to be able to say it in that sense or in one sense. And then the next piece is if you're still a little bit confused, I'm going to suggest that you don't know your ideal client well enough. You haven't lived in their shoes enough, you haven't done enough research about what it is that makes them need you now. And that's where you've got to just go do some homework and a lot of it. So past clients that you thought were fantastic. It's like, so what happened just before you got to me? What were you dealing with? What was the challenge? How did you find me? Like all of those pieces, Those are the two most important things. If you get stuck problem and talk to your previous clients about their journey so that you know their worry point, you know their trigger point, you know what they just completed, you know what caused them to get out, get googling you or whatever it happens to be.

Amen to that. That is great stuff. Talking with the people that you're working with or past clients, what their issues are. I mean there are so many things these days in such a digital society to make this a very simple thing like hey, here's a link to use. Here's the way if you're dealing with this, this is this. I mean if you guys go to our website, you'll see that we have some of our software and other best referral clients on there because we do, we get referred. Some, some are paying us, some others aren't because we're fine. Some that aren't paying because we just use them on a regular. Like the attorneys have a little hard thing in paying referrals. They can't always do that, but it still works just because they're willing to take care of us and our products, our clients in a, in a premier, premier kind of concierge fashion as we like to say.

Yeah, so, so let's, let's talk about that because I think that's the other thing that, that, that we, we gloss over and, and how much time we got.

We're good on talks.

Okay. So this is the other place where people get stuck in JVs is that number one, they think that it has to be an equal reciprocation. Well, if I'm going to send 10,000 emails, you should send 10,000 emails. Nothing could be further from the truth. What you need to do is find out what your partners need and want and how you can serve and support them with that. So that could be anything from a booth, that could be some one on one coaching, consulting. That could be. Hell, I've had a partner just give me their condo in the mountains because it was like, hey, that would work. It could be anything once you get to the part where you really understand. So that's number one, is that first and foremost it is not one action for another. It is finding a mutually beneficial solution based upon each of the parties at the table. And then of course the next piece of that that is so important is that there are a ton of industries that don't allow a transaction or the reward to be money. Insurance is one of them. Which I think is funny as hell because it's the biggest Ponzi scheme in the universe. But good God, we can't pay for a referral. It's like son of a bitch. Anyway, by the way, my dad sold insurance for 62 years. I'm not just making up voice of experience talking. Yes it is. I am the most insured human being you will ever meet. Because every time my dad needed money, I bought a policy.

There we go. Way to help dear old dad there.

Yeah, exactly. On a funny note, so one time I just I bought a whole bunch of stuff and lying in bed and you know that spot where you're. Where you're not quite awake but you're not quite asleep? I'm in that spot and my dear wife elbows me and she says, you know, you're worth way more dead than alive. I was asleep with one eye open.

The last good night's sleep you had.

Yes. Anyway, so back to the point of negotiating something that actually works. So, Scott, you just gave a great example. It's like, look, the lawyers can't pay me, but they can provide a whole different level of service to the clients that I deliver in insurance. They can't pay me, but what they can do is invite me to speak. What they can do is put me up at one of their events and their processes. What they can do is give me a table at one of the programs I send one of my staff members to. There are so many ways for this to work. If we are sitting around going, how do we serve the client better? And how do we get the right person in front of the right client at the right time and have it work for everyone? There's 12 billion ways to do this. I could give you a thousand examples. But the narrow view of what I'm going to call the digital marketing JVs doesn't cover 1% of what's possible in the kinds of things we've done.

And that's the thing you don't realize. It's not always cash. Sometimes it's just doing something for the heck of it to add that extra value. Sometimes some of our best downstream referrers or downstream clients come from our upstream of people that we've worked with on a regular basis. Right.

100% and often. On that note, this is the upstream downstream. And if you're going to do the assignment I asked you to do about the 10 upstream, the 10 downstream. So here's what's going to naturally happen when we're truly serving a client's problem is there's going to be organizations of people that are on both sides and there's going to be a little bit of a circular process. But here's my request for people when they're first starting. My request is make sure that the 10 top and the 10 down are different. Now there's going to be that circle thing. It's going to happen. But if you really want adding the 0 at the bottom line, you've got to go beyond the circular piece. Because what happens is that you end up with sometimes what I'm going to call a little bit of incestuous overexposure. So you want different referral trees, you want different referral families. That cycle will happen naturally. You couldn't stop it if you tried. But when you're building it out, look for different ones on each end.

What's the best way for people to find out, connect with you more? Find out when your next JVology is.

The best link is JVologyLive.com and that's where basically all the dates are always there. Or if you want the broader view of what we do in terms of our monthly communities, our digital live things, all those sorts of things, you can just go to jvology.com and it's just how it's spelled. J, V O L O G Y dot com. Everything is there. And you know, oh, there's also, I totally forgot about this. We're doing an online five day challenge called five partners in five days. And if you want to check that out, just search JVology, the perfect mix of people. Find and profit on Facebook and you'll get posted about that.

Very nice. Good stuff there, Jay, man, thanks for delivering so much value here to Note nation. And the note clues show, man, that's just great stuff. And so many people fail to realize there is literally, there's literally money sitting out there waiting for you. A lot of times people referring stuff without an affiliate and most people would rather like, well, hey, use my affiliate. I'd rather pay you, be glad to pay you. And it takes the relationship and that bottom line to a whole different level. Right?

100%. And when you start thinking this way, here's the biggest problem that you're heading into is opportunity overwhelm. You're going to have to start that those 10 that you start with on each side. That's going to be a moving process to continue to top grade what those opportunities are. And that's a good problem to have.

Totally is. Totally is. Well, hey, thanks man, for coming on the podcast here today and being live and playing full out and sharing this amazing strategy that really can change the bottom line for so many people out there. So we look forward to seeing around some more, Jay. All right, thank you, Scott.

Appreciate you being here.

Thanks, bud. All right, guys and gals, you heard it here. Take the time, build that list. Take the 10 downstream, 10 upstream. Take the time to sit down. Not if you're driving right now or you're running the treadmill, maybe don't do it then, but sit down, think about that. Because there are partners around us everywhere in our business, our entrepreneurial lives, that can be great referrals not only for business to you, but for you to refer to others out there as well. And hey, why not make a little bit extra in your checkbook or your bottom line profit strategy there for you. So go out, take some action, guys, and we'll see you all at the top. Everybody by.

Sam.