EP 609 – Investing In Short Term Rentals And Achieving Airbnb Success With Avery Carl

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This is the no Closer show where you get the latest developments in distressed note investing and learn the secrets of how you can control millions of dollars worth of property for pennies on the dollar. Get educated and entertained by someone who has closed thousands of deals and lives to support you in achieving the same. Now here's your host CEO of We close notes, Scott Carson.

Good morning. Good after. Hey everybody. Welcome to this episode of the Note Closure show. As always, excited to be here with you guys. Got a great guest on today that is gonna focus on a topic we haven't really talked about that much. But I know so many of you guys out there have been interested in aspect or working in this space or really kind of maybe in the space and worried about what's gonna happen with everything going on in the market these days. But we're honored to have somebody who's really killing it doing an amazing job. She bought her first rental property age of 26 on a $37,000 salary. And through strategically investing in in short term rental properties in great vacation real estate retail markets, she was a millionaire five years later at the age of 31. She now owns a portfolio of 24 properties and is a CEO and founder of the Short Term shop. It's a real estate team that helps investors acquire short term rental properties in the most recession resistant markets, which is what you need in today's world. All right. She also spends time training them and teaching the same concepts that help lead her out of the rat race. So we are honored to have the rock star Avery Carl join us here on the no Pleasure show this morning. What's going on, Avery? How you doing today?

I'm doing pretty awesome. How are you? Thanks for having me.

I'm doing great. So let's dive into that. As an investor, what made you dive into wanting to deal with that short term rental aspect? What really attracted you to that space and kind of your mindset behind that?

Sure, sure. So when I first started, I was working as a marketing manager in the music business. I lived in Nashville at the time and my husband and I bought one rental property. We didn't really even know what real estate investing was. We didn't educate ourselves in any way. And we just thought, oh, you know, this might be a good way when our future kids grow, we can sell it and pay for their college. And we never intended to go any further than that. And after we got that first rent check, we thought, oh, maybe we do need to go further than this. And so then we started educating ourselves. And luckily that one is a home run. That cash flow is like 1100 bucks a month. Bought it right off the MLS. No idea what we were doing. So we're keeping that. We didn't have a lot of capital to put into this at the time, so we thought, okay, we have this one down payment left. What can we do with it? How can we spend this to make the most money out of it, to scale this thing the fastest? So we thought about short term rentals. And a lot of people, when they think about doing Airbnb, they think, oh, you know, I'm gonna buy a house across the street or down the street and in the cool, hip part of town at Airbnb, that's not what we do at all. That concept, especially living in Nashville, was not appealing to us because in a lot of the big metro areas, not just Nashville, there's a lot of volatility with the regulations. People don't want them there. So we thought, we don't want to mess with that. That sounds like a mistake. So we thought, where can we go and do that where we don't have to worry about that? And the Smoky Mountains was three hours away. And that's a place where people have always gone and rented houses or cabins or condos instead of a. So we thought, okay, this seems like a good place to start. Fast forward, turn that one into five within a year. Went really, really well. And then have just scaled from there. Now we've got another one in Destin, Florida, which, where we live now, which is roughly. It's a very, very similar market. People are driving in, always staying in houses or condos, not staying in hotels so much. And it's just a really, really heavily vacation traffic area. Like I think the Emerald coast gets something like 10 million visitors a year. Smoky Mountain National park gets 13. So we've got the friendly regulations and the heavy tour into the model. And then taking it a step further, we take all the income from our short term rentals, go buy more traditional, tried and true long term rentals. Most of them ours aren't Section eight, but they're like one step above. They probably should be, but they're not. And that's what we do.

So basically kind of buying that entry rental, say entry, but that right below first time kind of buyer aspect of things, that price range for the most part. Right?

Yeah. And then so I built my company, the short term shop out of. When we first started, there were no real estate agents who either owned short term rentals, knew anything about managing them, knew anything About Airbnb even. And so I've became that agent and so now I'm the top agent in the Smoky Mountains. And we also have an office in Destin, Florida. It's a little bit newer as of last year. And then one in Gulf Shores, Alabama also as of last year. Yeah, we do the same thing. We help investors get connected with the best short term rentals. We do the buyer agent thing. And then as a value add, we teach you how to run it so that you don't have to use a property manager and pay 40%, 20 to 40% of your gross on it.

What's the biggest mistake that you see investors that get into the short term space, the Airbnb space that they really screw up on, Is it the property management side or what's that biggest thing that that's they stub their toe on the most?

I think it's a combination. They're kind of the same thing, but combination of micromanagement and over improvement. So a lot of these markets that are have been vacation markets forever. Pretty much everything that's for sale there is a vacation rental. They're going to come furnished and they were a vacation rental before you bought it. And a lot of people get caught up in over improving, like trying to make it the newest, nicest, slickest everything. And it just really doesn't. A lot of these markets, people are okay with things being a little dated. And then the mic management side, of course, you know, I do recommend having cameras on your property just to make sure that people are doing what they're supposed to. Just micromanaging those things, like staring at the cameras too hard, seeing that they snuck in one extra person and then, you know, messaging the guests and causing a problem that's going to affect your review. Whereas if you hadn't looked at that and you never knew it would have been fine. It wouldn't have affected your review. So just not letting the business kind of run is the main pitfall.

Having a little flexibility in some things there. People actually enjoy it versus being too much of a big brother in some cases, huh?

Yeah. Yeah. Adaptability is key for sure.

Is there a rent range that you like to try to be in that you see works the best on the, on the success of your team and your properties? You know, are we talking a huge property? We talking normal three, two, what's kind of a price point aspect of things that work the best for what you're doing?

So four bedrooms and up are the highest return on investment period. But the one through three Bedrooms will do exactly what you need them to do as well. So if somebody has X amount of capital to put down and you can afford to get one big one rather than two small ones, I would definitely go with one four bedroom and up rather than a few small ones. Just ease efficiency of management and the whole thing and then just return on investment. The spread is a lot bigger on the bigger ones.

Are there markets out there that you like to look at to identify where some of the geographics as you talk, Gulf Shore is great, Love that area. Destin's beautiful Smoky Mountains is definitely a gorgeous place there. When you look at characteristics of a market for people to look at, for investors to identify this as an investment strategy for, what are some of those factors? I mean, you said obviously places that people are going to, but is there anything else that goes into that involvement?

Okay, so this is where the recession resistant piece comes in. So I look for regional drivable vacation rental or just vacation markets, tourism dependent markets. So no metro areas and no fly to vacation markets. And this past situation with COVID the most recent one, and then the recession in 2008, both have kind of shown that the regional drivable destinations are the most resilient. And that's because in 2008 it was a cost issue. You know, people didn't have the money that they had pre 2008. So, you know, maybe they weren't getting on a plane and flying to Aspen or Mexico, but they can, they live in Ohio, they're driving to the Smokies or driving to Destin, driving to Panama City Beach. Whereas with COVID now, what we've seen is people don't want to get on a plane because they don't want to breathe on people. They don't want people breathing on them. And they don't want to go to big metro areas for the exact same reason. They don't want to go be around a lot of people. They want to drive their own car, go on a nice little vacation. They're also ready to just go get the heck out of their houses. So we're actually. Our rentals are seeing some of the highest prices per night we've ever seen. It would be a high time anyway right now because it's June. But we're getting the highest prices we've ever had because of all of these factors. Whereas I know a lot of my clients who own stuff in Nashville and in New York. Those properties are really struggling still.

Point. So your traditional like markets, you said avoid the bigger markets. I would say you're probably not too excited about Orlando right now, or is that a market that might do some.

Well, I don't own anything in Orlando, but a really good friend of mine is like the queen of short term rental investing and agent in Orlando. And it's kind of the same thing. You kind of have to fly there and then Disney is the main attraction. And that's a lot of people in a really small space. People aren't. It's just not there yet.

Back from COVID Yeah, I mean, that's the thing. You look at the parks. My significant other, when she's a DVC member and always looking. Okay, how are we writing down our points and how are we doing that with the Vacation Club or when are the parks opening? What are the restrictions going involved with Eric? I mean, a couple of big factors. Now, one of the things that you mentioned is trying to avoid places that have. Initially, for you guys who said Nashville didn't want to get into a lot of the restrictions, we're seeing that in a lot of cities out there. Right. More and more cities are acting. We had that happen here in Austin, Texas. They kind of outlawed Airbnb and Travis county for the most part. When somebody's looking at it or they have something that goes through that, what's some advice that you would give them to overcome that, to pivot and move to a different market, different property? What are some of the things that you would. What advice would you give those that.

Are listening outside of moving to a different market? I have had some clients who own stuff in Nashville who have pivoted to a 30 day plus furnished corporate rental program and they've done really well with it. But that has happened in a lot of the big metro areas just because Airbnb and short term rentals in general in those areas are new as of the past 15 years. Where if you think of a place that you might have driven with your parents when you're a kid and rented a house instead of a hotel, those are the places that will have figured out how to monetize this long ago with a local occupancy tax. So they're more in a position to where they can't live without the short term rentals because they've been around for so long. Whereas the metro areas are like, what is this? We want this to go away. We have hotels for this kind of thing.

That makes sense. What advice would you give to somebody who's looking at doing that, but maybe a little nervous of it not being where they could walk to, to review the property, the out of state property. Out of market.

Market, yeah, yeah. So every single one of my clients lives out of state from their properties. And I mean it's the same thing with me. Like, yes, could I drive to one of my properties right now? Totally. But am I going, if a toilet breaks in my house, I don't know how to fix it, I'm going to call somebody the same as if the property that I own is in California, I'm going to call somebody. So. And then with a short term rental, even if something's going hideously wrong, there is no reason for you to go insert yourself into that situation. Just make the phone calls, do the best you can, customer service wise, but there's no reason for you to show up. Really?

How's that happening? Let's talk about that. You talked about a little bit on the front end how people hate avoiding 30, 40% property management costs. Are you still hiring a team to help out with the management, the cleaning crew, the aspects? I'm sure the booking is done pretty much automatically, but it's the before and after the guests leave, I guess you could say is the biggest issue. Right?

Yeah. So the markets that I'm in since vacation rentals have been big business for a long time. There's a pretty deep pool of cleaners and people like that. So what I do is I get my clients all set up with a list of whoever they could possibly need so that they don't have to go do that work of finding them. But really all you need to start in any market is a cleaner and a good handy person and then you can kind of build out from there and then your cleaners. There are plenty of apps now that will sync with your Airbnb and VRBO calendars. We just use a regular Google calendar with our cleaner, but there's one called Turnover bnb where it automatically just sends them a notification, then it notifies you that they saw it so you know, they can't say, oh, I didn't see it. So there's lots of tools and automation that have come out in the past four or five years for self managers who are managing from a distance from any short term rental market.

Nice. That's really great. Some tools there and counsel for those. That makes a lot of sense. Now we're talking, let's talk on the money aspect of things a little bit there. Where are you seeing kind of returns on investments going with some going from a year long lease on a property to even a 30 day or even A shorter term aspect of that. What kind of increase in production and profit are you seeing for people out there?

It really depends on the market. In the markets that I'm in, depends on the number of bedrooms. The more bedrooms you have, the more money you're able to make, and not just the number of people you can sleep. Five bedroom that sleeps 20 people is always going to make more money than a three bedroom that sleeps 20 people. So it really just depends. But there's a lot of data out there that you can access. Whatever market you're looking at, Air DNA is going to be the most cost effective and accessible to everyone. A subscription for one market is between like 60 and 90 bucks. Their data is not perfect, it's not gospel, nobody's is. But it's close. It's really close. So I recommend if you're getting started, taking a look at that or just getting on the major booking platforms and looking at what your potential competition is doing. Because depending on the market, four bedroom in Destin that I have is going to do 120,000 this year, whereas four bedroom in the Smokies might do a little bit less. Like you're looking at probably 90,000 depending on the property. So all that to say you just have to kind of get a few different data points and triangulate. The big national property managers are also good places to get data as well, because they have the funds to and the tools to mine that data. So your vacas evolve. Turnkey. Those guys are going to have really good projections on rental properties as well.

What's something that's made you have to pivot a little bit or anything that's popped up here in the last 90 days with all the Corona stuff, anything substantial, you've had to go, oh crap, I got to overcome this that you'd like to share.

Yeah, Coronavirus was definitely an oh crap moment. When we're looking at investment in properties and thinking, okay, a recession's probably coming. We were all thinking that at the beginning of the year something's going to happen. But we never thought it was going to be this. So in the beginning of March, when all the shutdowns started happening, we were like, oh, okay, here it is. And every single one of our bookings canceled for March and April. The May people kind of held off. I think they wanted to see what was going to happen. And what kept us in the black in both markets was people who live in big cities that are close by, like Nashville, Atlanta, and people that live in small condos. Once they found out they were going to have to be working from home. They were like, hey, I wanna come rent your place for two, three weeks so I can social distance and work from home there. So we went and changed all of our listings and said, okay, here's a list of everything that delivers. Here we have our Internet is this fast. Please come social distance with us. So we didn't get a ton of bookings that way, but we got enough to stay in the black and to break even. And if it had lasted longer, we would have had to dip into cash reserves, which is totally conversation for a whole nother podcast. But since it was so short, we were able to break even there. But it did kind of give us an idea of the stuff that is important. You wanna make sure you have good Internet there'. Maybe add a workspace, just a small one like a desk and some stuff like that. So that was the only pivot we've ever had to do. Hopefully the only one we'll have to do for a while. And for a worst case scenario, it wasn't really that bad.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense there. When you have people now that are living where they're out now you've got one or two people having to work from home and then you add in the kids, you definitely want to spend a little time, especially if you've got your vacations canceled with the summer coming through. Oh, okay. Let's find a spot that we can actually breathe a little bit, have a little bit of our own space on top of each other. Right.

I actually had several new clients from New York City that said, okay, we want to buy something right now because we're in, you know, we're in a loft in Brooklyn with two kids and we're both working from home and we want to buy something now. We'll rent it out. We're going to come live in it for the next foreseeable future and then we'll rent it out later. So it's definitely something new for us.

That adds a question there. How much are you marketing to other markets to drive your rentals? Are you relying primarily on a couple websites? Are you guys doing a lot of SEO or other aspects of nearby drivable market?

There's like a movement of owners who do the bookdirect thing and they do the SEO and all that, but we stay so booked on Airbnb and VRBO that we don't complicate our lives with that. If something happens with one of those platforms, we will pivot and work that out at the time. I mean, it's working the way it is. So, you know, why work smart, not hard, you know, There you go.

I like it. Kiss, baby. Keep it simple, silly.

Right.

Now, you mentioned different markets. What's another market you're looking to? Obviously talk about Gulf Shores. I've been down neck of the woods, drank plenty of beer there, had a couple burgers there at Lulu's Hamburger, joined Jimmy Buffett's sister and spent some time there at the hangout. Where are some other markets across the country that you like? Keep my eye on this market.

Myrtle beach is one. Outer Banks, North Carolina is another one. There are some places out west that are really good, like Palm Springs, but doesn't make sense for me personally, but would make sense for a lot of people. And then, you know, any of the major ski areas in Colorado, Utah, but those are going to be a significantly higher price point. And those tend to have more regulations than the ones that I'm in currently. But I mean, there's really. Anybody can kind of think of a place that they've been before that would work. And then you just dig in and see if the numbers work too.

You want to share a problem tenant problem story with our listeners? On property where I had a really bad situation go awry.

I haven't had any major catastrophes. I've had some, some guests that I wanted to kill. But that doesn't happen too much. We had one guy who left us a one star review because he said that our property was too remote. It's in a neighborhood, it's five minutes from town, but you're not looking in other people's windows. You can hear their car start and stuff. It was too remote and that. I'm not kidding. It was like if Dwight Schrute left a. Left a review on our property, he said if a bear were to break in the window, there would be a slim chance of survival. So he gave us a one star on the.

That can't make everybody happy. Right? There's always somebody.

Yeah.

So, you know, that brings a real good point though, too. I'm willing to bet that 95% of your clients that are coming through this are just. It's kind of your vanilla aspect of things, your normal in and out aspect. And yet we're always gonna have a few outliers like that, right?

Yeah. Yeah. 89% of the time you don't even hear from. They don't ask one question the whole time they're there. Maybe 6, 7% of them will ask a Couple questions and say, oh, hey, this thing is broken and you have to go fix. And then you just have a few that you're not going to make happy regardless. And I found that the cheaper the price per night, the more of those bad guests you get.

I like that. That is. So what kind of price point should people be looking at to kind of that separation of good versus bad? Are you seeing $100 a night? 150. 49. What's the price point that you try to stay above on a nightly basis?

Well, again, it just depends on how many bedrooms your property is. Like my four bedroom property that is 700 bucks a night. Nobody ever complains. Everybody always leaves great reviews and nobody is a pain with one of our studio properties or like a two bedroom that maybe you get to the 120 range on the two bedroom and the under 100 for the one bedroom. Then people start to be like, you just get the people that like go out to the steakhouse and eat the entire steak and then want a refund because it was too done or something like that. So that's what I liken it to.

I think you've been in the service industry before as a waiter before with that kind of.

Oh yeah, yes, yes, I have. I did my time in the bar industry.

When you experience that, you just have to shake your head and just like, okay, you're gonna be one of those people out there.

Yes.

Is there something that you like to do with your properties that helps you stand up a little bit more? I mean we talked about don't want to put over amenity or over rehab, overdo your property. But is there something that you like, hey, this is what we're gonna do a little separate ourselves from the rest.

This is gonna sound silly and like everybody should know this, but they don't. Is just get really, really good pro photo. That's really all it takes. Don't use iPhone photos if you can help it. Most cases it's gonna be just a couple hundred bucks. And drone photos definitely make a difference as well. So just invest in some pro photos. Like my highest performer of my smaller places has bright blue laminate countertops from like 1990. And well, it wasn't built in 1990, but you know what I mean? Super dated. And I've meant to change them for a while, but it just stays so booked that we haven't had time to. So you don't have to go crazy with the setting yourself apart. A lot of people are like, oh, you know, I want to leave them Wine. I want to leave them a gift basket. Don't do that. They're just gonna A, you're getting yourself into trouble with leaving them alcohol and then B with the gift basket they're just gonna complain that they don't like chocolate chip, they wish it was peanut butter cookies that you left or something like that or somebody's allergic and they wish you wouldn't have left it out. Just keep it super simple. Just make sure that you answer everybody's questions and just have good customer service. But you don't have to really go crazy on anything.

I love what you said there. Don't be trying to don't gift baskets. Cause I can see that's just a routine cost expense that takes away from your bottom line. It's not gonna be long run and then be able to reach out to if there is an issue pretty immediately I imagine. Right. Good stuff there. All right, I love that. Where do you see yourself going in the next five years? Do you see a much bigger explosion of short term rentals across the country or I mean if you had a crystal ball, what would you say you're seeing?

Avery, I don't know about an explosion, but maybe a redistribution as more metro areas and there are some vacation real areas like Jackson Hole has horrible regulations. I would have loved to have owned something there. But the regulations are too bad. Yeah. In places where people were kind of in early adopter of short term rentals that are now being regulated out. I think that it's going to redistribute into some other markets. I don't know about a big explosion though because old school investors are never going to get into the short term rentals. They're going to stick with their multifamily, they're going to stick with their spurs and they're going to keep and I mean that's a tried and true way to do it. I love my long term rentals. I don't hear from them as much but they just don't make as much money. So I think we'll see a steady growth I think because it is definitely a way to turbocharge your income so that you can scale faster into more traditional forms of real estate investing if you want or you can build a big short term rental empire if you want to. But I like to keep my portfolio pretty diverse. So I think as people kind of catch on that they can do this without just going all in on vacation rentals, that we'll see a steady upward trend in vacation rental investing.

Would you advise somebody who's looking to maybe get into this? Maybe start maybe with if they've got a spare bedroom, kind of dip their toes in the water, start off that way, renting out a bedroom and see if they like that aspect of things before they go into buying a full property.

Anything like that, I probably wouldn't know. I would hate having somebody in my own house. So if you want to dip your toe, start with a small property and then scale up into a bigger one. Just buy something that will be easy to resell. If you're not sure or I mean, if you're super not sure, then maybe it's not for you. But I probably wouldn't recommend starting with something in my house. No, no problem.

I was just thinking couch surfing. And then here in. Especially here in Austin when we have different festivals, a lot of people rent out their extra bedrooms for extra money.

Oh yeah. I lived in Austin for six years and I am kicking myself for not having bought a house there when I lived there.

When was that?

That was 2006 to 2011. All my bartender friends, I worked at the Jackal buying houses on the east side for like $70,000. I ran into them five years later and oh, I sold my house for 600.

Craziness on the east side there, definitely. And especially about that time, they're buying shacks downtown or south of downtown and I've turned them into bars on rainy things like that aspect of. That's the thing you mentioned some of the areas you're at, you know, you said you were using primarily the website. So I was saying, as are you advertising at different places, different bars? Do you have any type of partnerships with maybe some of the vendors or restaurants or activities that maybe have provided any type of fitness, affiliates or ticket reimbursement, things like that?

There are a lot of options for those kinds of things in the markets that I'm in, I haven't done it just out of laziness. I just give them a list of my favorite places to go. And like, you gotta get the burger at this place. You have to go this place for that. And they appreciate it. You know, I don't need to bother with anything in return from the restaurants, you know.

Now you talked about the short term shop. Let's talk a little about that. Let's talk about some training. What's involved with that?

Okay, sure. So we're real estate agents, real estate office. Office. So just, you know, regular real estate sales in the Smoky Mountains, Emerald coast in Florida and then Gulf Shores, Alabama and you know, if anybody's thinking about buying a property in any of these places, everyone who works for me owns short term rentals or is a real estate investor in some capacity. So all of my agents are well, well, well versed in just investing in general. And so what we do is if you use us as your buyer's agent, of course, we help you analyze the properties, make sure you're getting the best one. And then on the back end, we help you with your Airbnb and VRBO listing. We get you set up with the automation tools that you need, whether we use one called your porter, but we know how to use several of them. So if that's not the one you want to use, we can help you anyway. But get you set up with all the automation tools, get you set up with all your vendors that you need, and really just get you ready to rock so that you can just as soon as you close, you are out the door ready to make money without having to pay a property manager 20 to 40% and all that's just complimentary if you use us as your buyer agent.

Now, what if they're not buying in one of your markets there? If they're an out of state investor, they still want to, to talk with you. Do you offer services for Swedes and out of state in a different market than you're in?

We've kind of put the brakes on that just to focus on the markets that we're in. But I mean, I'm always happy to talk to other investors because in other markets, because maybe I want to buy in that market, they want to bring it to my attention. You know, I'm so always happy to share information and trade market info anyway.

So I'm a fan of Gulf Shores. That market has done well. Where do you see that market going here in the next 24 to 36 months? You think it's going to stand strong with the recession that we're kind of seeing kicking in and all the defaults and stuff like that? Do you think there's going to be a lot opportunity in those areas?

I think these kinds of areas are a little bit insulated from the real estate market as a whole. So for example, I had a lot of past buyer clients reach out to me at the beginning of coronavirus and say, oh my God, I want to sell. I'm like, we'll list it. And then we had it on the market. You know, obviously it's sat on the market for two months because nobody knows what's going on. And then as of the past three or four weeks I got three and a half million dollars worth of listings pulled away from me because they decided not to sell, which, you know, is not fun for me as an agent. But it's good, it speaks well of the market because there's. They're like, oh, nevermind, I don't want to sell this. So all that to say, I think somewhere like Gulf Shores is. I think it's going to continue on a steady upward trend. The appreciation in these areas is more investor driven than it is other areas like housing and industry, because there's not industry in these places, there's only tourism. And the thing that will make the property values drop is when the investment numbers stop making sense for the investors. So at that point, I think it might drop some, it might plateau. I don't think we're going to see a big bottom dropping out of anything. And I think now people have enough time get out of a second home or get out of an investment before it gets to a point of being actually distressed than they would their actual home. Go sell that thing for retail before it gets distressed. When you live in your actual home, you've got to ride that thing all the way down to the bottom. So I don't think it's going to change too much. I could be wrong. I am by no means an economist. I think it's going to keep creeping up.

Yeah, I think you're right about that. Especially in some of those areas out there. I think especially things on the water always are the first to recover. They do. Well, unless you're Miami condo market for the most part, I think that's the one market's gonna hit. Bark dip a gulf short. Such a great area, such a great place to get destin. Obviously I know why I didn't understand why you call that home now. And then of course Nashville is like the sister city around Austin, Texas here. See a lot of the great things out there. So Avery, what's the best way for our listeners to audience out there to connect with you to either hey, see what you got available or to work with you in those markets?

Yeah, so my website is the shorttermshop.com. there's a bunch of different ways to get ahold of me right there on the front page. Email, text is best. Don't call me, text me my phone numbers there, shoot me a text, send me an email and I'm pretty easy to get ahold of.

Awesome. Well, Avery, thank you so much for taking time. Your busy schedule will be on the no Closure show. We definitely appreciate it and look forward to your continued success. Alrighty.

Awesome. Thank you so much. I enjoyed it.

Alright, guys and gals, that's gonna wrap it up for this episode of the no Closure Show. Listen to what Avery says. She gave some great advice, great counsel on there. If you're looking to get into the short term market, how to identify some things, what to look forward and what not to do when somebody's doing an amazing job and helping other investors do the same. The type of coach you're looking for if this is a niche that you're looking to play with. So go out, take some action, buddy, and we'll see you all at the top. Bye.

Sam.