EP 614 - A Closer Look At The Philadelphia Real Estate Investor Market With Jesse Johnston And Matt Tallent

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This is the no Closers show where you get the latest developments in distressed note investing and learn the secrets of how you can control millions of dollars worth of property for pennies on the dollar. Get educated and entertained by someone who has closed thousands of deals and lives to support you in achieving the same. Now, here's your host, CEO of We Close notes, Scott Carson.

Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, everybody. Welcome to this episode of the Note Closure Show. As always, Scott Carson. Excited to be here with you today. And I've got a double dose of guests on here today. These two guys are the co hosts of the How Real Estate Works podcast. And one guy runs the real estate team and the other guy is the agent house hacking investor, building a portfolio for themselves. And so I'm really honored. These guys are doing amazing things in the city of brotherly Love, as we like to say. Philadelphia, you know, go cowboys, right? They're big cowboy fans out there. Oh, yeah. Just kidding. But we all know that we've got quite a bit of our Note Nation audiences up in the Philly market investing in Philadelphia. We've spoken of that neck of the woods a couple times in different events. So as we kind of roll across the country with our City Spotlight tour, I'm excited to have both these two rock stars, as they like to say, one's the old dog and the other one's the new dog as far as their experiences. But what I love is they bring a really blended opinion of the market. You can hear the highs, the lows, experience, new experience, and kind of see some things. So I'm really excited to have these two amazing guys, Jesse Johnson and also Matt on here. Matt, a talent joining us here today on the Nucleus Show. What's going on, guys? How's it going in Philly today?

Thanks, Scott. We're excited to be here.

Yeah, it's a beautiful day in Philadelphia.

So does that mean it's nice and rainy then, or is it really pretty? Are you just giving.

It's actually sunny out today. Yeah, it's nice.

It's always sunny in Philadelphia, as they say.

Yeah, exactly, exactly. Now, let's talk a little bit. I mean, you guys, how's everything going up there right now with all the chaos going on? The city kind of opened back up. The market strong. Does it kind of slow down? Let's start first with you, Jesse, and then we'll bounce it to Matt's opinion about the market as well, too.

So this dog, as you like to say, so what I've seen. And so we Run a pretty big team. We have 30 agents that work on the team. And so we have people in the city, in the burbs and the ex burbs. And so we get a little sampling of the city got soft for a minute, then it exploded. You mentioned the chaos. There was a pause for a minute and then we're seeing things really open up. But while that momentary pause was happening in the city, the suburbs were on fire. The constant conversation I'm having with the agents that work for us is how do I make my buyers stand out in a market where things are just that crazy and still protect them? And we're still seeing homes all the way on the expert selling in less than 30 days, which is. I like a healthy market. I don't love a crazy market, but I'll take it. Coming out of crazy times to just see things open up. If I could show you our pipeline, it's a legitimate V shaped recovery, like if just on our own personal pipeline.

So really, are you seeing more so in specific price ranges, people wanting to get out, you know, are doing well or moving faster? Are you seeing people really trying just to get out of the big city, be something a little bit more rural so they're not so on top of each other. What are you seeing?

Homes with pools are the. What we're are the. Because there's less vacate, less travel. So homes with pools have been a very big search topic locally. And so we are seeing people selling their condo and moving to the suburbs to have some outdoor space. So that is definitely a market right now.

Cool. Matt, what are you seeing as far as real estate investors at that neck of the woods? What's kind of their focus and what's moving and what's doing well in the Philly market?

Yeah, definitely. So basically what happened in Philadelphia and Pennsylvania was, I believe March 16, real estate shut down. Basically, we weren't allowed to do in person tours until May 18. It opened back up. But during that time it was still pretty crazy if you kept your home on the market. I had buyers who we were trying to get videos or some sort of look at the house and I was like, hey, we'll put an offer and we just need a video of the house. And someone had already bought the house sight unseen. So it's pretty crazy. We were seeing homes still selling one to two days. In terms of numbers for March, units listed were 1953 homes. In April, it was down to 800. So a lot of people pulled their homes off the market or temporarily withdrew them and in May, we saw the numbers come back a little bit to 1748. So now we're in June, we're seeing current inventory at 4,600 homes listed. But compared to last year, there were 8,500 homes listed. It's definitely a seller's market. It's cut in half from where the numbers were last year. From the investors that I've talked to, I think especially in terms of note investing, they were excited to see if that note investing market's going to pick up. I think they were looking at Q4, that maybe some inventory would come in with notes. But in terms of investments, I had a buyer who was working on a duplex and that got like seven offers in on it. And then the house flipping market, if there's a good deal for that, people are still being aggressive with house flipping and house flipping and everything like that. So we're still seeing stuff that's on the market now fly off, whether it's a house flip, an investment property, or just a regular residential home as long as.

Jesse, you wanted to throw on something there.

Yeah, no, it's interesting. We got an email today from our lender, and it was a video from Mark Zandi from Moody's, actually. Mark Zandi's right here in Westchester, where I live, so it makes me feel good. But he's saying that the market's going to soften at the end of the year. Right. But he put the caveat at the end of it. It's like the market couldn't be any better right now. So the fact that it's going to soften is not. It's not a major warning. What they're saying, and this is probably really good for note investors, is the forbearances are going to hit, and there are those that don't. The forbearance is hitting, plus we're going to be at a slightly elevated jobless claims rate at that point, too. So. Unemployment rate, I should say. So he's saying that that combination is going to lead to some potential softening, which is, you know, any investor should be paying attention to that. So that's where the opportunities are.

Yeah, I would agree to that totally. I mean, I just got the phone with a guy on Wall street about 20 minutes before we jumped on here talking about that. He's not. I mean, the residential side.

Yeah.

You're still figuring out how long Fannie Freddy's and those guys are going to delay the forbearance agreements. You know, they're going to do a second Forbearance agreement of six months and kick the can down the road a little bit. What about the commercial markets there in Philadelphia? What are you seeing as far as commercial properties? Because I think those are going to hit first before the residential side. As you have investors that have properties and strip malls, stuff like that aren't going to get the bailout and their tenants have stopped paying as well. Are you seeing an increase in listings for commercial properties?

So we can probably speak more anecdotally to that because I think we have some. The Howe Group does own some investment properties and things like that. And I think for the most part we didn't see any reduction in rent payments on that side. However, there are other property managers that I know. So again, anecdotally where they were seeing slowdown in payment and I do think that that market is definitely soft, but I don't have the numbers on it.

Oh, no problem. Yeah, I think the numbers are delayed anyway for a variety of things. I know that some of the government bank regulation websites were giving banks, especially FDIC banks, an extra month to get their numbers in from Q2 just because everything going on. But Matt, you wanted to chime in and share something?

Yeah. So where I live at is like Manioc, Pennsylvania right out. It's in Philadelphia, but it's a very small town and it has like a Main street with a ton of commercial properties. And what I've seen there is there was one big bar and restaurant that I think was kind of on its way out and this Covid crisis was the final kick. So that place announced that they were shutting down. And then I knew someone else who worked at a high end bar and restaurant in Manayunk and it did really well. And they announced that they were closing too. And I asked them, I was like, is this, were they on their way out or was coronavirus like the shutdown what caused this? And they're like, no, it's completely due to the shutdown. So it's sad to see like these small commercial businesses that don't have franchises everywhere, they don't really have a leg to stand on.

Yeah, I think you're 100% right. You hate to see mom pa, you know, entrepreneurs, businesses going out of business. I think the residential, I mean the residential, the restaurant space, the smaller hotel space definitely is going to be hit. And it can be some opportunities for those that come in and either a trying to modify those loans that they're buying the debt and trying to work with the business owners, which is what we try to do would recommend if they're, if they, if the owner operators have a leg to stand on, it can kind of get through this hump. But you know, the thing is, it's important to keep in mind I think that you're you probably as they're seeing it. And I'll go back to you, Jess, you being the old dog, you look back 12 years ago to everything happened back then. Are you seeing some similarities? Are you tracking is your spidey sense going off saying I got to watch out for some of the stuff that happened 12 years ago with what's going on now or what?

No, no, it's completely different. I think the bubbles are in different places. So clearly we had a banking crisis in 2008. I lived through it, it was painful, it was life changing for me. So I will tell you personally it was life changing for me. But we were over levered in every aspect of being over levered at that point. And this is the other thing is we had an oversupply of properties. And the number that Matt just gave you, the city of Philadelphia has 4,600 properties listed for sale where a year ago there was 8,500. Yeah, so I mean, so at least in Philadelphia, when we're speaking of residential real estate, there's like one month of supply on the market right now. So in 2007, 2008 there was, you know, I wish I had the number for you, but if I was betting it would be six to nine months of inventory. So we have a long way to go. And going back to what Mark Zandi said, yeah, it couldn't get any better. However, there are going to be people who don't have jobs and that will start to soften the market. But if we get the three months of inventory, that's still a pretty decent seller's market. So I think it's completely different now. I think the full repercussions of COVID and paying for government stimulus and things like that, that'll trickle its way in. But I think when it comes to the real estate market, I think we're probably going to have another 18 to 24 months before we start to see deflation in prices in Philadelphia market.

That's a good point there and I love your feedback on it. It's definitely different. And then how everything's happened is different than the banking where it was 12 years ago. And then the thing that concerns me the most is even with them doing forbearance agreements right now with such an unemployment rate and I don't know if you guys know your numbers up in that neck of the woods compared to the rest of the country.

I don't have it off the top of my head. I wish I did.

Yeah, I don't have the numbers on there.

We should know that, Matt. We should know that. Just going forward.

I got the one number.

Yeah. Well, we all know the big number, right?

Yeah.

40 million people, and that number grows every day. Have you guys. And maybe you don't know this number as well. I just was looking at something recently. Have you guys seen a kind of a second spike with everything going on, with people getting sicker than they tightened back up on, you know, the going out or, you know, going outside and networking with other people are going out or. You still got the safe at home orders across Philippines?

They haven't really, because we were still pretty restricted in Philadelphia, so we're still in the yellow phase. So we're not able to go to, like. We're not able to go into bars and restaurants inside. We're allowed to sit outside. We're not allowed to get haircuts or anything like that, which is why I always have my hat on. This is like four months of growth now. And so, yeah, we. There was nothing to, I guess, go back to because we're still restricted pretty heavily. So, yeah, they haven't really tightened up anything.

Yeah. Pennsylvania was one of three states that saw numbers going down. And so while we complained quite a bit about the governor's restrictions, it feels pretty good to be like winning in Covid.

So, yeah, we won Covid.

We.

Victory.

We won.

You want to kind of like do an Eagles chant for that one?

Yeah, go ahead and do it on here. Yes. E, A, G, L, E S. Eagle. Eagles.

Oh, yeah.

I can't believe I said that.

Well, we're converting you over on your show by Eagles fan base recorded.

It's not. It's not going away, pal.

Yeah, we have that for life.

Well, you know, you got to give it. You got to give. I have to give a shout out to Foles. He's a Texas boy. Austin, Texas.

Love, folks.

Great guy, absolutely stellar guy. And you got a few guys out there. We'll let you slack on there from University of Texas here go Horns. But the thing I like, let's dive into this a little bit because we talk about Philly being. This is just Philippines, such a great sports town. You know, the Phillies, the Eagles, the Flyers. You know, you've got the 76ers. Does not forget them if they. If NBA stays up there. What kind of impact do you think it's going to have if we don't have sports the rest of the year at that neck of the woods? Do you think it's going to be impacting those properties around the neck of the woods and maybe. Definitely impact maybe the short term or the Airbnb market in Philadelphia that you see, or no?

Yeah, I mean, I think it could definitely impact the short term Airbnb market, especially because a lot of fans move away and still come home for, for home games and everything. But I think a lot of people hopefully are going to convert those to long term rentals for the meantime, and I think that's kind of been the plan. I don't really invest in any short term rentals. I don't really know anyone who does. Most of the people I know are doing long term rentals, but I know even during 2008, I don't have the exact numbers, but I know Philadelphia had a lower amount of foreclosures than other cities and the landlords had a lower number of foreclosures than residential clients. So I do a lot of leasing as well for landlords and we've still seen a lot of rent raises and a ton of people are still moving and renting site unseen. So the numbers are still strong for long term rentals.

That's good.

I think it's interesting, the Airbnb market, so. So we're near the Jersey Shore and we're near the Poconos. So during the height of shelter in place, the Pocono rental market went through the roof and has remained that way because there's more space between the homes and there's less people. So that I think the New York market has moved into like upstate New York, into the Poconos, Lake houses, anything with a pool. Like there's people renting single family homes in the suburbs of Philadelphia with pools rather than going to Mexico or going to the Bahamas or, you know, heading over to Europe for, for their, for their holidays. Uh, Matt, do you holiday? You holiday, right?

Oh, yeah.

Scott, you holiday? It looks like you're on holiday right.

Now, but I wish I was here where the. My background was at. In the beach. Yeah, I would love to right now on a cruise if it was our original plans to be. But that obviously got hijinxed.

Yeah, but so that's my point. So what we saw is the Jersey Shore market. There was just a massive amount of cancellations and so everyone canceled their plans. But then all of a sudden things opened up and now like So I was thinking, well, since I'm sheltering in place, maybe I'll just rent a place at the shore for the month of July or August. I went to look, there's not anything left. So that market has come back. So as long as the owners of those properties weren't completely over levered and were able to go without for three months, then I think they're going to be okay. I think as you move into the city. So now that I think the Poconos are good, I think those are going really high. I think the shore is going to be okay. But I'm concerned about the let's go to Philadelphia for a weekend trip to see the Liberty Bell Market. Right. So I think that vacation market, to me, like Matt, I'm hoping that those are converting more towards long term rentals. If not, I believe we're going to see an influx of condos and smaller properties that people use for Airbnb coming on the market again end of the year, beginning of next year, because forbearances will be ending and if they can't get those up and rented quick enough to bring in the revenue, I think it's going to be tough. Now Philadelphia has another market that we didn't talk about, which is we have excellent hospitals and schools.

Yeah, I was just going to say that.

So the hospital market is excellent. So anyone who buys like your children's hospital upenn any of those hospitals in the area, that's always been a solid market. There's always a need. And in fact, Covid did actually help bring some people into the city for that too, which is unfortunate. But we have great institutions and so that is a market. So if you're buying for an Airbnb, being in those areas is definitely a great place to do it.

Yeah, I actually had one person who I took out on a leasing tour and she wanted to rent five of our units to use as a short term rental thing because she was the height of when short healthcare workers were coming out to Philadelphia, like emergency healthcare workers. So she was trying to start a business based around that for short term rentals for them. So that's definitely like an auxiliary market.

I completely agree.

Yeah, that would probably definitely make sense with the executive leasing or the medical short term leasing stuff to help as people are needed that we've seen that in different places there for you. Now I always like to ask your question because we get, we have so many investors across the country that are buying debt and buying real estate and they're always looking at you know the exit strategy. Is there an area in your guys neck of the woods? Unless I guess we talk maybe about rent numbers. Whereas if the market rent rate is in at a specific number below, it's a rougher area. You know, like I give you Columbus, Ohio, I think below 500 bucks is a two gun area, you know.

Yeah.

What do you guys kind of see as being okay, it's a rent rate of this. Okay, you should be pretty good. It's below this. Eh, let's avoid it at all costs.

I would say like again, the area I'm in, Manioc Roxboro is a strong cash flow market, but there's a ton of areas right now that in Philadelphia that have improved drastically. So there's people are pushing out to different neighborhoods. Now Fishtown 10 years ago used to be like a very like a place you wouldn't go and now it's a booming area to invest in and it's pretty much done like it's a very established area now. Same with Northern Liberties. But they're going all over now into these neighborhoods. Like Grays Ferry has a ton of opportunity now. Brewery Town has a ton of opportunity and Point Breeze. So like Jesse said about the hospitals, there's an area called Graduate Hospital and the homes there, you can't find a house under $600,000. It's very nuts. So there's a lot of people pushing out into Point Breeze and that's becoming a stronger rental market. And the same with Kensington is now people are breaching out into that area because Fishtown is so expensive in Northern Liberty. The area is really getting stronger and all these areas that people would invest in 10 years ago are now booming with development.

Yeah, I like the question because I kind of cut my teeth selling real estate in the Philadelphia market and I live in the suburbs and some of the areas where I started selling, I'm just amazed at the rent rates they're getting now. So I cut my teeth in Queen Village, which is South Philadelphia. I mean that's prime market right now. That's, you know, that's. And I've sold some stuff that I'm pretty sure the investors that I was working with wish they held onto. But then you go further, I think. So for me, the areas that I like, I love South Philadelphia. I think there's always been, that's towards the stadiums. There's always been a very strong family. That's not a word we can use in real estate, but I'm on your show so I can use it like family. Market so patchy on that used to be like there was nothing really to go there. It was basically owned by the mob. And now it's this booming restaurant section of town and the rents have gone through the roof. So you just keep pushing south and then northwest Philadelphia. So going north, Matt mentioned Brewery town. Francisville, going towards Temple University is just red hot right now. I love East Falls. To me it is kind of like it's like the suburbs halfway between like Philly and you know, or being into Center City. Beautiful. It's along the river and you know, the Howe group just built some townhomes there and we're heavily invested in that area. But then going northwest into West Oak Lane. Germantown's my spot though. So if you want me to. I think Germantown is the future. I love Germantown. I live there in a beautiful home and I needed two guns. But the home I lived in was gorgeous. I can see why. I can see people want to live there. It's right next to Wissahickon Park. It's just, it's a beautiful place and it's. And you know you're near Chestnut Hill, which is just amazing place to live. It's basically nestled between Chestnut Hill and East Falls, which are both established neighborhoods. And I think that's going to be the next. That's my pick for the next commercial and residential growth area.

Awesome. Is there a rent rate though? As far as like the thousand dollars or less is a very rough. Or fifteen hundred dollars or less is kind of on the B side or if you're above 1,200 bucks. I mean it's going to vary obviously across the market. But is there like a lower end kind of rent rate they like? It's just too rough for you guys.

What do you think, Matt?

Yeah, I mean, I would say, I mean most places if you're going to rent a three bedroom, one bathroom house, you're probably going to get, if it's in fair condition, probably around $1,800 a month. So I would say below that still not bad. But if you're going below like maybe $1500, your house isn't in good condition or you're in one of those low demand areas. So yeah, I would say 1,800amonth for a house in fair condition with a good area.

Sorry, go ahead, Jesse.

No, I agree with that. So I think if you're looking at a three bedroom rental under 1500, you're starting to get into a tougher neighborhood. But the thing about Philadelphia that you, it's so cheap in comparison to the cities around us that we're seeing investment come in and we're seeing people move. I have an agent who's had two couples move from Queens to Philadelphia because it's lower density, lower cost of living, better quality of life potentially. So I could see some of those marginal areas really coming up pretty quick.

People want to get more bang for their buck and have a little bit of room to spread out, not be on top of each other. Definitely, yeah. Now I always like to ask this too and Jesse, you may be the better one for this. When you think about short sales, we see a lot of short sales starting to creep up in some of the major cities out there. Dallas is starting to see some Houston other parts like especially in the higher end range or the newly kind of the hard money lending projects where investors have gone in and maybe over rehabbed or in the higher price point. Are you happy? You may not know this, but are you guys starting to see a few more short sales are going to pop up in the market or third party approval required on some of that stuff or not?

I'm not seeing it. No. I mean we have our hands in. We'll do three to four hundred deals a year. So we're seeing enough deal flow. And I have not heard the word short sale since 20, maybe 29, maybe sometime. Actually we have one in our pipeline right now. So I lie but that one was a. It's short because the, because of. It's not because the value of the home. It was for tax reasons. So it's not your traditional short sale. It's personal taxes, federal taxes that are so no. So the answer really is truly like we don't have a lot of. We're not seeing a lot of that we haven't reached. And I love quoting Alan Greenspan because he was so freaking cool. We haven't reached irrational exuberance yet. So once we do then we'll start getting short sales.

Yeah, that's the truth. You gotta love that. The irrational exuberance is always a great term that you throw out there.

You can name this program Irrational Exuberance. Now.

You guys are both looking at stuff. What's the thing that gets you excited the most about your guys market? Anything that you're guys buying for your own portfolio. What's your kind of like? I just, I mean I can see the tickling when you mentioned some of the different areas that you really enjoy. But is there like a bread and butter thing that when you see it you just have to gobble up as much as you can get.

I'll let Matt go first. I'll let the Youngin go first.

There you go.

So, I mean, it's definitely exciting to see places like Point Breeze and Grays Ferry and Kensington just grow and turn into these great areas again, because for a long time, they weren't any areas that you'd go into, and they're really just starting to come back to life. So back, like, maybe 50 or 40 or 50 years ago, those were, like, the places to go. Like Kensington used to be, when you went into town, you'd go there. And a lot of people who grew up in Philadelphia or the area know that. And then during the 80s, it kind of, with the drug epidemic, went by the wayside, and now we're starting to see that area come back to life. So that's what really excites me, is that these communities are becoming whole again, and it's great for the people who live there.

Yeah, Jesse, I completely agree. So there's a reason I like Germantown. So Germantown has long history and roots and clearly was German people, but in my lifetime, it wasn't primarily German people. It was mostly populated with African Americans. Very vibrant, very supportive community. And to see a community kind of, like, fall apart because of whatever reasons you want to mention. But there's a lot of hope in those neighborhoods, and it's pretty exciting. And that's what I love about it. I mean, Philadelphia is a city that has great neighborhoods, and to see some of those come back and come back the way that they were, not necessarily by completely changing or gentrifying in a way, but, you know, coming back because of, like, grassroots, like, that's. That's super exciting.

Yeah, the whole pride of ownership is rampant, and you can look at any national holiday and flags and people really spending time, you know, in the neighborhoods, talking with their neighbors. You know, we've got cities across the country. People just don't talk to their neighbors anymore, which is unfortunate, but I try.

Not to talk to my neighbors right now.

Don't talk to me.

Don't talk to me. I'm famous. I'm on Scott's podcast.

But, yeah, to piggyback off what Jesse said, there's a lot of cool stuff happening in Germantown. There's a guy, Ken Weinstein, who started Jumpstart Germantown, and to kind of, like, tamper down on gentrification and everything, he loans money to people in that area to buy rental properties and fix them up. So he loans those people and pretty Much anyone who goes through his program. So he has a lot of people investing in their own community. So that's exciting to see as well.

I agree.

That is good. Most important question. Where do you get the best Philly cheesesteak when you're in Philly?

Oh, Tony Lukes. Easy. Yes.

We got a little bit there. Jesse. So Matt, what was the name of the game? Tony Lukes.

Tony Lukes, my favorite.

Jesse.

So you don't do a Dale Sandros?

No, I've never actually gotten a cheesesteak there because the line's always too long.

Exactly.

I can't get it.

You have to go there sometime around 1am because at 2am it gets too busy.

Have to try.

I have eaten a cheesesteak there at one o' clock in the morning before. Yes.

Great spot.

Cool. Guys, what's the ideal client that you guys like working with out there? If you've got an investor or owner occupant, what's your kind of your bread and butter as far as the clients that you like to work with or maybe clients you don't want to work with might be a better one to go that route. Jesse.

So for me, I mean, I'm so lucky that I have a very diverse group of people that work with me. So I'm going to answer it two ways. So for my group, we don't have an ideal clientele. However, I have the right fit for the investor that's looking to do syndications. I have the right fit for the person who needs their handheld. I have the right fit for all of that. For me, I'm looking to be in business with people like Matt. And he knows this. I think very highly of him because he's the type of person that puts a business plan together and executes the plan. So my perfect customer is a motivated young real estate agent that wants to. Wants to learn and be and follow a plan and you know, is passionate about being financially free and you know, is learning based. So that. So that's my. So my clients are the agents. And you know, bringing Matt on has been a huge blessing for us because he is. Exactly. He epitomizes what we're trying to do. So I bet it's awesome. Yes. Now say something nice about me.

Matt.

Matt, you're gonna have to pay him $100 cheesesteak for that kind of commentary.

Yeah, well, Jesse's a great guy too, and a mentor.

But Matt, Jesse mentioned a business plan. Talk about kind of your ideal client or what do you got? What's kind of your bread and butter when it comes to.

Yeah, for me I really love working with first time home buyers and investors because I just really believe in the power of real estate to grow your financial position, net worth and I think what people pay for rents in Philadelphia and other places around the country are insane. So if you can be a first time home buyer, I love helping those people out. One, because they're reducing their payment and two, I think they're increasing their financial position in life without even thinking about it. And then working with landlords, it's just fun because I know that market pretty well and kind of how to get a good return on your investment. So I like helping those guys out and just kind of giving them all the tools that I have that I use in my own business with my rental.

That makes sense. That's good stuff there. What's the best way for people to reach out to that Listen to this that are looking for an agent. Jesse, you want you got a phone number or email? Are you preferring to call Matt? How do you how best for our audience to connect with you guys?

So the best way to get in touch with me is Jessehowgroup.com it's H O W group.com and my first name is J E S S C. Don't put an I in it because that'll upset me. So Jesse Howe Group. And yeah, Matt, if anybody's looking to buy, sell or invest, get in touch with Matt.

Yeah, yeah, you can actually give me a call 484-620-7798 or go to my website, call PhillyH c a l l phillyhome.com or call phillyhomeinstagram.com Nice.

Can you repeat the phone number one more time but a little bit slower for those that are listening?

Yeah, definitely. 484-620-779-87798.

All right, awesome guys. Well, hey, I appreciate you taking time your busy schedule. Come on, talk about the Philly market. Everything goes around there. You guys are obviously very knowledgeable and know your markets which is it's a breath of fresh air when it comes to talking with realtors and brokers and people out there because not everybody has a diverse thumbs on the pulse in the markets and you guys obviously do. So I appreciate you guys coming on here and sharing.

Yeah, we appreciate it. Thanks for having us.

No problem guys. All right everybody, like I said, if you guys are interested or seeing stuff in the affiliate market, here's a couple guys to reach out to. Love working with investors. Make sure you're buying a good deal, making sure that you're not buying something, that you need two or three guns out there for you. But with the market being like in Philadelphia, like Jesse Shared and Matt both shared, that market is coming back strong. So it's definitely a market to keep your eye out for if you're seeing assets, stuff starting to pop up on your tapes and other things from different banks and hedge funds out there. So go out, take some action, everybody, and we'll see you off the top, everybody. Bye, Sam.