EP 669 - Dwan Bent-Twyford: Finding Success In Subject To And Short Sales Deals

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This is the no Closer show where you get the latest developments in distressed note investing and learn the secrets of how you can control millions of dollars worth of property for panties on the dollar. Get educated and entertained by someone who has closed thousands of deals and lives to support you in achieving the same. Now here's your host CEO of We close nodes, Scott Carson. Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, everybody. Welcome to this episode of the Note Closure show. As always, Scott Carson. Excited to be here with the day. And I'm gonna tell you right now, you might need to turn that volume meter down a little bit because we're busting this seams of energy here with my special guest today. And she is somebody who is a such an expert at something you guys have asked about subject to's and short sales. We'll get to that in a second. But this lady's gone from slinging grand slams and getting fired at Denny's to knocking grand slam deals out of the park. She's even rehabbing a town basically right now. So we are so jacked up and honored to have America's number one short sale foreclosure expert. She's known as the queen of short sales. America's most sought after real estate investor, the one, the only, the pink haired diva. My friend, Duan Bent Teifer, join us here from Florida or Denver. I think you're in Florida today. Good morning. Good morning, Duan.

Oh, thank you, Scott. Gosh, I hear the introduction, it's like, who is he talking about? It can't be me.

Love it, love it. You've done such an amazing job. Not only you're a big advocate for helping people out there, you've done thousands of deals. How did it all get started? I mean, you had such kind of, you know, we all talk about getting laid off and learning so much. But I think starting at rock bottom, you have no place to go but up in a lot of cases, huh?

Yeah. You know, it is true. I was so rock bottom. So I'm 62 now. So I turned 21 in 1980. And so I know, you know, if you weren't in the 80s, like, you don't really get it, but I worked in nightclubs, I worked in bars. Everything was cocaine, champagne. I mean, it was really a decadent time, you know, and so I was all in all, you know, just everything was so great. And then, you know, I got a little older, I got a little more serious. I got married, had a baby, and I'm 30 now. I'm like, you know, I Want to be like the Susie homemaker, the girl scout mom, the homeroom mom, and you know, completely different from before. But my husband and I went through a really unexpected split up when my daughter was only eight months old. And honestly, because people always ask me, well, what happened? So suddenly that. But he got arrested for selling drugs. And so, and he was in my car, so the car was gone, the husband was gone, the income was gone and the bank account was frozen. And I had an eight month old baby. I was like, oh my gosh, like do now. So it became apparently clear that he was not getting out. And it was clear that I was going to have to make it on my own. And honestly I just, I didn't know what to do because I really, honestly, I mean like I said, I got fired from. I used to work third shift ten night to six in the morning. Like the shift where you can pretty much do anything. And I felt fired from that. I was just like looking back at that sign thinking, who gets fired from Denny's in the fricking middle of the night? Like how bad do you have to be to. To get fired? Like 3:45 in the morning? Who's that person? It's me. So I really just made the decision, like I knew my ex was not gonna be part of the picture and I didn't want to move back home to Ohio. My parents were, oh, come live back in Ohio. I was like, okay, I'm already living in Florida and I really like Florida. I just really made a decision that I was gonna have to figure out a way to work for myself, raise my daughter. And I just had to really put on my big girl pants, really. And I went through all the crap, anger, mad, you know, just all the stuff you go through. But I discovered real estate investing and just from meeting people and I met some guys like, oh, we buy houses, we fix them up, we sell them. And I'm thinking, honestly, I was so naive. I thought that meant we buy houses and we decorate. I didn't know the word rehabbing. I didn't know what that word meant. Like, oh no, we buy houses, we fix them up, we sell them. I'm like, oh, fix them up. Like decorate. Pictures, walls, plants, custom made blinds, paint. I can do that. So I really, honestly got Scott. I truly, from the bottom of my soul, thought my first house, I was just gonna decorate and fix it up. I didn't know that that meant kitchens, appliances, plumbing, pressure washing, painting, landscaping. I was so far buried over my head doing all this work and I Don't know what I'm doing. I started going to Home Depot. I started to take class. I had to take classes. I learned how to lay tile. I learned how to lay tile and toilets. And at night, my daughter would be sleeping. I'd be putting together cabinets and making screens for the windows. I made 22,000 bucks on my first house. And I was like, okay, it's a lot of money. I've never had that much money. My daughter's with me every day. Max has some shops. I'm going to keep doing this. And now here I am. My daughter's 32.

That is awesome. I love it. I love it, I love it. You had no place to go but up. You couldn't really go down. And you, hey, you threw it out there. You weren't scared to get out and get your hands dirty, roll up your sleeves and go to work, you know?

Yeah. I mean, you know, it's funny because when I look back at that first deal, if I had really, truly understood what rehabbing and the level of rehab, this house, my first person was a hoarder. I did not know what a hoarder was till the TV shows came on and I was like, oh, that was my first house, like, to the walls. And I was like, barbara was a hoarder. No wonder her house was so bad. But I feel like if I'd taken a bunch of classes and had a bunch of education and knew all that, I'm not even sure I would have had the guts to do it. I think my naivete is that you say it. I think that was honestly my biggest asset. I had big cojones, and I was super naive. And I was like, okay, well, worst case, I work at the Waffle House. Already let me go. So, ah, that's the only place you can go from Denny's Waffle House. Like, that's it.

Yeah, I guess. I guess that makes the most, you know, IHOP these days. Who knows what's going on with that? Yeah, but, you know, you learn a lot about that, especially, I think, getting thrown in the fire like that. A hoarder house, definitely. It's like the worst of the worst to get through it. And once you've gone through that, like, hey, I can accomplish anything. A light rehab, a subject to deal. Pretty easy to deal with once you've dealt with that stuff, huh?

I remember being in that house and there was just little tiny paths, and I'm thinking, what is this about? All this papers and there was like, hundreds of wine, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of empty wine bottles and dog food and just so much stuff. And I just remember walking around this house and thinking, I can't even see the walls. I don't know what this house even looks like. It's going to take a lot of decorating to make this look good. I didn't know I'd have to, like, strip it down to the drywall just about because all that stuff it's soaked in and. Oh, my. I didn't. I mean, until that show Buried Alive came on, I did not know what a hoarder was. Even to this day, I've done like three deals like that. And I'm like, what is wrong with these people keeping all this crap? I didn't even know it was the thing.

So that. That's something you and I have in common. My first ever, like, appointment with a homeowner from a, you know, letter campaign ended up going to a hoarder house. It was just like that. And you're like, oh, my God. I literally threw away the clothes I was wearing because it stunk so bad. They had five dogs that were just doing everything in the house and no food, no water for four months. And so, yeah, when you've gone through that, you're like, okay. The smell of, as they say, is Ron Legrand is famous recording. The smell of shit and piss is the smell of money. Right?

Well, that's true. That is one thing he does say that I do think is funny. I did another hoarder house a little bit later. I still didn't know what it was. This was 6, 40 yard, I think. How much? Six 40 yard dumpsters. Six 40 yard dumpsters. So I just remember thinking, like, who on the face of the earth can even accumulate that much stuff in a lifetime? Like, how could you even have that much stuff? And even then, I still didn't know what hoarder was. I just thought, gosh darn, people are crazy.

So what helped you make the transition into doing more short sales or being such a big fan of subject to deals? These.

Well, you know what happened? I was. So I started off just rehab. Now when I started, I was here in South Florida. There were not rea groups yet. So there was everything. If you wanted to find anything, everything was in the classified section of the newspaper. I have people I know sometimes. These kids are like, I never actually held a newspaper. I was like, oh, my God, if I had one right now, it's smack you over the head with it. What do you mean you never touch the newspaper? So everything was in the paper. And so, you know, I'm always looking at houses for sale. I saw this ad that there was a brand new real estate investors group was going to meet over in Boca Raton. So I was like, hey, there'll be other people there like me maybe. And so I go to this Rio group and it's the first one in south Florida. There's 80 people there, and there's just me and one other woman. And it's all guys. Yeah, like no women, just guys. And I was like, okay. But I start meeting people and I start talking to people. I tell them what I'm doing. And then throughout the course of several months, I start hearing people talk about wholesaling. Yeah, I was like, oh, okay, hang on a minute. I don't know this word. So I can get them under contract and sell them to a rehab or a landlord and not physically have. Because I'm still working on houses at this point. And I'm like, holy cow, this is some nice slice of heaven over here. I can just wholesale this house. I start wholesaling. My first deal, actually, wholesale, 75 houses.

Wow.

I was a working machine and I was used to putting in the time and the hours and I thought, okay, I want to just do a ton of them to really learn this, because this sounds better than fixing houses up. Because, yeah, I'm five years into this now and, you know, not that it's not great, but I'm just like, oh my God, my back. You know, I start wholesaling and then it was really by accident, my first short sale. I had this house and you know, on a deal, if you, if you plan to make 5,000, like in your mind, it's already spent.

Yep.

I had this deal. I was going to make five grand. The final documents came in and there was a bunch of fees added. I was only going to make $1,000. Well, I was like, I really need the whole five, so. And I can't bail the homeowner lose their house. And I'm like, oh my God, any. I don't want to do this for a thousand miles. I call the bank up, I say, hey, listen, I went over these numbers, you know, not some of these fees off. I can't close the deal. And the girl didn't even put me on hold. She's just like, okay, we'll do that. Just like that. Knock off those fees. So my light bulb goes off and says, hang on a minute, I just got $4,000 worth of fees knocked off. I'm doing this Till the end of time on every deal. Because even 4,000 bucks a deal. So I did it on the next one, did on the next ones. I have, like, five deals under my belt, and still they weren't calling anything short sales. There wasn't like a term, which is shorting, buying, discounting. Like, there was not even a term, really. And after about four or five deals, I thought, I wonder what would happen if I asked them to take less on the mortgage. So I very meekly was like, oh, you know, what about, like, this little bit? And then I got a few of those. So then I thought, you know, I had this house and they owed like 90,000, but it was my trash. And I thought, I'm going to offer 30 grand and see what happens. I offer $30,000. And the bank came back a couple, like, a week and said they would take it. I was like, oh, my God, I just discovered something, right? And it was like there was no one teaching us, nobody talking about it. I started calling the bank. I said, you know, we're gonna let's short sales. And I actually trademarked it way back. And I wrote a book. And it's a supplement. It's called supplemental trademark. Cause you can't trademark the term short sales. But it applies in mortgages, applies in a lot of industries, but as it applies to real estate investing. I was like, that's it. I am the queen of short sales. And I just. I don't know. We've done like a join of them since and our students. And it's a whole thing.

It is a whole thing. It's amazing how it's changed compared to when you started. And then the whole short sale chaos of 2008, 2009, 10, 11. You know, how it was the wild west beforehand, then these banks reinvented. And I hate to say this, but I have to give bank of America credit a little bit for coming up with their systems that kind of helped lead the industry a little bit. They were difficult to deal with. The what? The equator system?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, the equator system. Actually, I remember all the investors. Oh, my God. You have to deal with the bank. You can't get the same person again. You can't use all the things and buddy up with the people at the bank. Oh, it's gonna be terrible. I say, no, it's gonna be so efficient because the bank's putting it in. The information's in there. No more FedExing, FedExing, faxing, packing, faxing. Like, all that's gone now. This is. I Mean, how many times have you faxed the same package? 100 times or we won't have it. And I thought that was great. I was excited about that because it simplified it.

Yeah.

So. But I know. I remember investors like, oh, my gosh, is your. Part of. It is. You know, you do work with the same bankrupt a few times, and then they know you, hey, Scott Swanny. You know, but it kind of wiped that out. It's like. But if you're doing a good job and you come back, all your numbers, it may. I felt like it made it a lot easier.

Yeah, it was. It was a funny thing. I was dealing with the. Doing a short sale on a property, and that was financed by Ever Home Bank. And I got the head of the short sale department on the phone, Rachel Guile, I can remember her name. She sounded like she smoked like four packs a day. And it was funny. So I'm talking. I was like, well, hey, you know, I asked her, I said, hey, do you want to come out to an event, talk about short sales? She's like, what? I don't know if I can do that. It was just funny. It was just throwing that little oddball thing like, okay, well, we'll accept your counter on that and go from there. And I asked her, I said, so, you live in Florida. How are you? She's like, you know what? Hang on. You're doing this professionally. You're helping people out. I mean, all eight of my employees, we need help. Can you help us Short sale our own homes, too?

That's the best ever right there.

And so that's how we got in tight with everhome. Every deal we ever submit through everhome got a better price point on it.

Oh, my God, that's so good. I know. I used to tell people, like, listen, do not tell all these banks that you work with me, because I've worked with all these banks, and I know all the bosses of loss mitigation. A lot of the banks, I'm like, do not say, I don't need 5,000 people saying, Duan taught me. Like, don't mention. Especially if they call, like, some of the banks where I really need people high up. I was like, do not. Yeah, about me. I don't name drop. What do you mean? You are in programming. You're teaching people across the country. Stop doing that.

That's one way to get blacklisted pretty quickly.

It really is. I didn't know. I was like, I don't know how much all these people talk within the office like do not say mention my name anywhere.

So are you seeing an influx here? Short sales in a lot compared to what's been the last couple of years with everything that's been going on over the last 12 plus months.

You know, what's happening right now is people like today, you know, I know this call won't play today, but there's so many extensions on with the banks right now that people taking advantage of that, you know, and some of them, you know, rightfully so, they're not working their money, unemployment, whatever. So I understand that, but what's going to happen is when the, the bank is like, okay, everybody has to start making payments again. I could be wrong, but I feel like a lot of people will put their house on the market and there'll be a whole bunch at one time which will now take this market that's going like and go, you know, hang.

On a second, I got a sound effect for that. Hang on. It'll go from.

That's exactly it. And I know people are selling houses like hot cakes and people buy because the interest is so low. It's like, yeah, but the houses are getting bid up, bid up, bid up. And then are they really worth that much? And anytime like something crazy like that, like in 2008, all those liar loans, if you can fog the mirror, you can have a house. We'll give you 125% of the value of your house. Well, when all that came up to let's make a payment, it crashed and burned. So I feel like we're on the cusp of another sort of crash and.

Burn home is homes are becoming so unaffordable. I mean, I think the, the president or chief economist for Redfin said there was like a $50,000 average increase across the country in pricing on, on new home sales out there all at one time.

Yeah, that's not really warranted by anything.

Exactly, exactly. You know, so. But the counter side of that, if there's not that many short sales, is something that I'm passionate about and I know you're big passionate about, is subject to deals.

Oh my gosh. I know I love subject to deals.

Let's talk about those. Let's talk about. Why do you love them so much?

You know, I like stuff that's creative first of all. So I like creative stuff. I know we rehab, we still do a lot of things like that. But for me personally, like the more creative a deal is, the more exciting personally that it is. But the thing about the subject too is you have homeowners that are literally willing to walk away from their property, they can't afford it, they want to move, they want to be done with it, but they owe what it's worth or the condition or something. And maybe you cannot get a short, so you can't. You can't do anything with it. And if you don't know about the option of a subject to. That person just moves off, loses their house, goes into foreclosure, closure on the credit. You know, all that stuff happens to them. But you have a perfectly good house right there because you can sell to somebody else who doesn't mind paying exactly what it's worth. They don't mind paying a little bit more for the interest rate because something happened to them that they can't go to the bank anymore. So you feel like this giant void of people that want homeownership again and people that really do just, I'm done. And you fill a void in there. And there's just millions of houses that fall into that. That spectrum. And. And people. I don't feel like a lot of investors know that it's an option. A lot of times when I do a workshop or something, I start and we're talking about subject to. People have like this deer in the headlights. What are you talking about? I don't know what you're talking about. I'm like, we're getting the homeowner deep down to us. I'm selling it over here to this guy and giving him a new mortgage, paying that one. This as every month it goes by over here, this guy's credit gets better every month over here, this guy's working on his credit. And when it's all said and done, everybody wins. So I like the fact that you're helping the old person, the new person yourself, and you're creating like three wins. And it's a win for the bank, too, because the bank gets a defaulted asset off of their books, too. So there's no lose for anybody.

Yeah. It is truly a great thing out there because. Exactly. The borrower that couldn't get going through something, they want to walk away. They don't want that responsibility. It's a divorce. We've seen plenty of increases in divorces here in the last 12 months. I think that's a great starting point. Or people who are moving or. I think a big thing is if you've owned rental property in college towns that the kids aren't going back to school and they're doing remote learning now. I think that's a Huge opportunity for you to pick up some subject to deals. Because it's usually a lot of out of state owners that don't want to deal with that headache now.

They don't. And you know, it's funny, when we do our workshops, always, I know you have to hear this, there's always four or five people in the audience that go, yeah, but what homeowner would just need their house to walk away? And I said, well, first of all, if you were in that person's shoes and you were lost your income or your spouse or whatever, and you don't want to completely destroy your credit or just whatever, and someone will say, hey, I can help fix a little piece of your credit by making your payments on time for you and I can give you X amount of money to move and start fresh. I see a lot of people, millions of people will say yes to that, but everyone's all right. That's the first thing who would do that. You got to be on the other side of the fence.

Yeah.

Because a lot of people will do it. And it just fills a big void that I don't think most people even know it's there.

Yeah. And you don't need a lot of cash. I mean, you may need a little bit of cash to catch up. Some of the rare ridges you've got, the low interest rate, it really comes down to what is the. In the payment on it? PITI vs what like market rents is or what you could finance that property in a wraparound mortgage.

You know, wraparound. I love wraps.

Yeah. Raps are great.

Everyone says, what about the deal on sale clause?

It's like, I was going to ask you that then next, exactly what do you like to say to that?

It doesn't. Every single person asks you that. What about the deal on sale clause? Not the homeowners. These are like the people sitting in, you know, your audiences, the homeowners are just like, okay, tell me what to do. So we're big on. We use land trust. You know, we have power of attorney. We have every document in the face of the earth from the homeowner and also from the person I sell it to. I have, you know, every document in the world, including I get a deed in lieu of foreclosure. So. And in their mortgage, it's real specific. If you don't make this many payments, I don't have to foreclose on you. I'm just going to file the deed and we're going to cash your keys. I'm going to shake hands and move on. I'm going to tell you something. We have done like 300 and maybe 70 subject to and not one single person has made me take them through the foreclosure process. I had a few that call said, hey, Duan, Bill, listen, I can't make the payments. You said I could never make the payments. I could call you and we'll give them my two or three or four thousand bucks to move and say broom sweep on your way out. And then I just sell it again. But not one single. So I'm knocking some wood here. Not a single person has like made us go through the foreclosure process because as an investor, I know if they get some badass bankruptcy attorney, they could keep me tied up for a really long time. So we do deeds and lie. Like it's all. And I think disclosure, disclosure, disclosure. Everybody knows what's happening. As everybody knows what's happening. I feel like it's one of the greatest ways to make money.

It is. I think it's a great way to make money. And that whole deed and Lou and escrow sitting there, you know, it's usually we. I love using that on a 90. If you get more than 90 days behind, hey, just go ahead, let's get you cash or keys and walk away and make a win win for Everybody.

We do 60 days. We make the first phone call, hey, list, you know, and it's like, if you can't make the payment next month, it's, we're totally fine. We'll give you some money, just move out and then that's it. But no, and I feel really lucky that we've done that many and not a single solitary person as avoid. You know, they hide. You know, people hide behind the phone. You know, you can't reach them. They just. I think it was just so honest and transparent with people. It's like there's no shame and falling behind again. If something happens, just please let me know. Don't. Don't make me come after you. Because that other side of Juan, she's not so nice.

Yeah, she's not so dwanderful at that point.

I'm not dwinderful. My dad used to always say, listen, the thing about Duan, she's the nicest person in the world. If you cross her, she's got ice running through them veins. I was like, dad. He's like, well, that's just really the truth. I'm like, well, okay, it could be.

Now looking at. Let's talk about the flip side of this. Is there something that you like, the underlying note on the underlying mortgage that you're taking over, subject to? What are some characteristics that you like? Equity, no equity, low interest rate. I know it varies.

One thing for us personally is I always want to have a fixed interest rate.

Yeah.

You know, I say if it's not fixed, I'm just, you know, because interest, you know, you just don't know where that's going to happen. And once I give my new person a mortgage, I want their interest rate, you know, fit, solid. You know, this is what the deal is. So I look for anything that obviously is fixed. The lower the interest rate, the better. Yeah, but still, even if this person has a 4 or 5% interest rate, this person that cannot buy a house any other way, if they have to pay 7, they will.

Yeah.

You know, ideally, this house over here has a little bit of history on it, so that when I get out my new mortgage, that this one doesn't come due before this one. Now, I want to make sure there's a little bit of us. So. So what we do is we call it three things. We call the front load profit. That is the money that this person gives me and I give them a mortgage.

That's the. That would be. For those that are listening, you can't see Don's hands. That would be the person that would. Is looking for a house. They're looking to buy a house at dawn. Is owner financing them to the subject to deal. So they're giving you the down payment. And what kind of down payment are you looking for?

Duan. Duan.

I'm sorry. So sorry about that. Duan.

It's okay. It's a Southern. I'm telling you, it's a Southern thing. So. Well, I mean, we do houses, about 200,000. That's like our range of where we're at. So we have about $200,000 houses. So I really try to find people like 1500, $20,000 down. And people always like, well, who has that? There is a shocking amount of people that have that much money down. These are people that, you know, maybe a couple of generations have living together now. They're all pulling money. I mean, I've never had anybody that couldn't come up with $15,000 down ever. And people wonder, they could buy a house. No, they can't. They have something that happened in their credit and they can't buy a house, but they want to. So. So my ideal deal, I would get 20,000 down, and even if I have to make 10,000 in back payments to the person lo closing house. I'm still putting 10,000 in my pocket. So. So we have what we call the, the upfront, the front load profit. So the front load profit is the difference between my homeowner in distress, whatever their mortgage payments might be behind, and a deposit my new person is giving me. Then we have the deferred profit and the deferred is the difference on the money every single month. And it might be 3, 4, $500 per month. And then we have what we call the back end profit, the backlog profit. The back end profit is a difference from my original mortgage to the one I gave my new person. So we have three separate paydays. If you really kind of summarize and look back at the deals, I feel like the average deal's got about $50,000 in it. It's really easy to get, you know, 10 to 20, excuse me upfront. If you're making three or $400 a month for five years or six years, that's like another 20 grand. Yeah. And then cash out is like another 10 or 10, 5, 10, 15, 20 there. It's really easy to make 50 or $60,000 on what appears to be a no equity deal. So I have a program called no equity equals big bucks. People like, what does that mean? I was like, because all these no equity deals, the average investor just passes because they don't know that there's literally $50,000 sitting there. And two people that both need help.

You know, and being a deal artist can really hit it out of the park because you're putting somebody who's got a need to walk away.

Yeah.

Get that financial burden off their plate. Divorce, death, job loss, moving, whatever it might be. And you're dealing, serving a need to somebody out there. Business owners, doctors, people that you know, a lot of professionals that make high good money but they can't afford it because their business regimen or paying their own bills doesn't happen on time because they're good at being doctors. Not paying.

Exactly. You know, and you know, it's funny because we have done a lot of deals, especially in Colorado, because there's a, the army bases, naval bases are out there. We've had a lot of people that have called that, listen, I've never missed the payments. I have to move in two weeks and they will give us their house as in perfect shape. It does not even behind 30 days. And I just don't want my credit to be destroyed. And, and we get these houses that are beautiful Just beautiful houses. But I am very strict on making sure this person over here signs everything, including like adopting their firstborn son over to me. And I make sure that this person over here has no wiggle room whatsoever. If they default, it's fine. I'm happy to do that, but no one's going to drag me through the ringer because that's just not happening. I'm happy to help everybody.

Now, what's on the average time, are you doing it for a 30 year wrap or you're doing it like a five year, seven year. What's kind of the time frame that you're seeing people?

We put them, we amortize them out 30 years. Now. We used to have a five year balloon, but, you know, the whole Dodd Frank, like screwed that.

Exactly. Yeah.

So up until then I had an absolute five year balloon. And then if you needed to extend it, we had to read your documents, you had to pay extra points again. And you know, we'll start again. But so I tell the homeowner that is signing the house to me, we're going to try to have your name off the mortgage the next five to seven years, but try not to go past seven. At some point, even though they're hating it now, they are going to want to buy another house.

Yep.

They are. They right. You know, and you know, I'm never buying another house again. But we know when the anger settles. Yeah, they do. And this guy right here, I'm like, listen, if you can't get your credit squared away next five, six, seven years, then you've got something going on over there too. So I don't have an actual like the exact day that you have to pay it off because I can't force that.

Right.

Everyone understands that at the five year mark, you best be qualifying and refinancing this house out because if it goes past that, then we're going to restructure what we have going on.

Well, it's a beautiful thing too. You, you keep them at an interest rate. I mean, people can go out, get a low interest rate. Don't give them something they can't go get, you know, 6, 7%, that's the carrot dangling in front of them to work on their credit score, to make payments on time. You know, they make two years of payments to you and you can show that, you know, that's a pretty easy thing for them to go get refinanced out.

And, you know, a lot of investors don't know, like, we can put all those good payments on their Credit report.

Exactly.

I can like say, listen, you make 24 payments to me, I'm going to put all that on. Your credit's going to go through the roof I over here every month past all those payments you miss. It helps restore. So we're restoring and restoring and getting paid in the middle.

That's right, baby.

That's right. Look at that money.

Right, Right. Oh yeah. When you know how to structure them and you got everybody sign off on everything, it is a beautiful way to make lemons into lemonade. And really sweet tasting lemonade out there.

You know, I think that. I know we lunch on time, but I honestly feel so. Anyone that's listening, that's new. I know if they've listened to you already, they've heard you say this too. But I feel like the most daunting thing for a new investor with subject to people are afraid of the paperwork. I mean, you've got to really paper both sides up. And I think that might keep a lot of people from trying. It's like, oh, I don't know, it's a lot of paperwork. What about, I don't know, I don't really understand what all these things are. But really, if you just follow somebody like you or me, that does it, that say, here's your papers and you do everything right. It is one of the easiest things is you don't need money, you don't need credit, you don't need a real estate license. I mean, you really just need someone like you or me to say, hey, here's how you do it. And off you go. And you're not a landlord, so that's.

Right, you're the bank. You're being the bank. You're putting yourself as the bank. Nobody calls the bank for, you know, the air conditioner that bought you. The new owner of the house is responsible for repairs, responsible for taxes. You know, that's the same thing.

You know, nobody calls the bank and says, oh, my grandkids came over and stuffed this stuff down on the toilet. Can you unplug it? They don't call the bank for that.

No, they don't. Thank goodness they don't call you when the AC goes out, when it's 100 degrees out in the middle of July either too.

Therefore they don't. I, I'm just such a huge fan of subject too that I love talking about them and exposing people to them because there's so much money there.

Go on, you guys. You've been teaching this for a while. You've got classes and workshops on this specifically too, don't you?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, we do. Yeah. We have programs. We do webinars when live workshops come back. I actually really love doing live workshops is. I like meeting my students and I like working with people. So I really actually, I really miss that. Just like, oh, my people, I can't hug anybody. But we have programs and the whole thing like that. Because I am just. I'm just a big fan of it. My husband and I are just a really big fan of doing it. And it is a nice way for people to get monthly income without having to be a landlord. You know, it's like with your note buying, people get those notes structured out. You can build a gigantic millions of dollars a year cash flow and never owned anything.

Yeah. And it's not based on your credit. You're not based on credit. You don't do financing. You're using your end buyer to be the money guy and make. It's a true. It's a total win, win, win across. But that's why I still love them so much, especially right now with such rates, last couple years and people in distress out there. It's a great strategy.

Yeah, I agree. And I always tell people, because people, I want to be a landlord. It's like, I don't either. I get it. I've had those phone calls. I was like, what.

Dwan, you've got a podcast out there. It's just rocking around, doing some amazing stuff out there. What is the best way for our listeners out in Note Nation to follow up with you, to listen in or connect with you? What's the best way they.

They can go to my website, which is dwanderful.com d w a N D E R F U l because I'm dwanderful dwanderful.com and then my podcast is called the most Dwanderful real estate podcast ever.

We'll put links to that.

I can't have fun with my name and my show and all my stuff. Like, really, what's the point? But for anyone that would opt in at my site, I have four free ebooks. They're small ebooks that on wholesaling, short sales, a little bit of scripts, a little bit of, you know, just kind of giving people, hey, here's a few things you can sort of dip your toe in and. And see what you like.

And that's important because it's. We don't try to do everything. Try to focus on a couple of things. Now you guys are also doing a major Rehab job on a town in Iowa. Let's talk about that. I love that story. Let's hear about this.

You know what? You're gonna love this, how this started. So you will especially love this. So my husband's from this town called Clinton, Iowa. It's a little town on the river and it's just one of those downtowns. It's only three blocks wide and three blocks deep. And it's a little town where literally time just stopped. Like the doctors, everything have been down there forever and there's no activity. So we're going back to all these reunions and the long and short, we start being like, oh, this town needs a little love. Like, you know, maybe we could buy a couple buildings. So we contact someone from the city and find out an opportunity zone. And they're doing like a city re. Beautification to rejuvenate the downtown. They just need some investors to come in and buy up all these buildings that have. Literally some of them have been sitting there for a decade, just boarded up, I guess like a ghost town. So we found. So we have a family friend. So sometimes it just. It's just who you know, and it's just God's stroke of luck. So we have a family friend, his name at the time, Dwayne. And sadly, he passed away a few years ago, but he was 94. So my husband's from there. He knew my. My husband's dad. And Dwayne's like. So we bought this one. He said, hey, listen, I know this lady over here that owns that building. It's a three story. It's this one building, is one entire block.

Wow.

Her husband passed away. She doesn't really want the building anymore. I could just hook you up on a phone call and see what happens. So we call her up, we started talking to her. She doesn't want to take care of the building anymore. Her husband passed away. She's like 80 years old. She says, well, there's another lady in town. We just wanna move to Florida. So we talked to her and we get her to structure 100% owner financing deal. She doesn't care about the money, she just wants the payments. So she wants to move to Florida. So we get this house and this is a giant building. This is a massive building. And he's a lot, a lot, a lot of work. Couple months go by, I get a phone call from one of her friends. She says, hey, listen, you made payments over there on time. I've got three buildings. My husband passed away. I'm Willing to give you the same kind of deal, but you got to take all three. And I was like, no, money down. You'll carry a note. Amelia, Chuck to Florida. Okay, we'll take those three. Another lady called. She's like, I have two. They're all friends. They're all in their 80s. All of them have outlived their husbands, and none of them want their buildings. So we ended up getting the one and then three more and then two from these women talking, and they're like, we're all moving to Florida together. Don't miss a payment. Don't ever make us come back to Clinton, Iowa. And it all financed everything. And I was like, you can't even say no. So then the bank called, said, hey, we've got two buildings that we've owned for years. No one's ever bought them. We'll sell them to you. Like, no, we don't want to buy them from the bank. They're like, okay, we'll just finance them for you. We'll just create a mortgage if you'll make us a payment. Well. And they just structured those. I'm like, okay, Bill, listen, we ought to stop buying buildings. Like, now we have 10. We were going to buy one, and then another guy down the street was retiring, so we went and talked to him, and he's like, oh, yeah, I'm walking away. I'm just ready to go. I'm wearing retire. And we're like, well, you know, want to get rid of your building? You can have my building. And just so all they just. I swear to God, it just keep falling in our lap. And we're like, okay, we have to stop buying buildings. But now we have 15, and we're actually putting in some businesses, and a few of them, we have a lot of commercials. And, you know, the great thing, Scott, is a lot of the spaces have commercial. And during COVID nobody had to shut down. Everybody kept making their payments. But what we did is we have a few. A hairdresser. We have a few things. And they were able to stay open in Iowa, but they have been in that building, like, a decade. And I said, you know what? So we gave everyone, like, three months, was it. We're just going to give you three months. Just we're happy you're in the space. You know, I'll waste any money. Just take that and, you know, and start making payments in a couple months. And everybody stayed open, and everybody was so grateful. And I'm like, I'm gonna like, oh, we're gonna evict someone that's been there 10 years because of COVID But I also don't want to sit there with a building with nobody making payments. So we gave everybody all kinds of breaks and did all kinds of things that we didn't need to do that we just. It was the right thing to do. And everything just kept rocking. We opened three businesses during the pandemic.

I love it. Now are all of them occupied or you rehab? And some of them are all, basically.

I think at this point, we've got two that are still not occupied. One, we're finishing up this. This month, actually. It'll be open. It's gonna be like an indoor farmer's market. I've already got 100 vendors lined up for space and all the other spaces in all of our buildings. Every one of our spaces is full because a lot of people heard that we were so good and they left their building and came to our building. Literally. We don't have a single vacant space at any. And we have a waiting list. And during a pandemic. But people were like, well, we heard you gave them three months. You did this, you did that. Our landlord, like, they didn't do anything for us. And a lot of people were out of their leases and they moved into our buildings. Just the goodness came back. But I'm telling you what, when that second one, Colin said she had three, I was like, six buildings, Bill. And then there was one more, I said, oh, my God, that's eight. Like, where's the line?

Right?

But the good thing is because we bought some other out of state investors. Salt activity. I think seven or eight buildings have been purchased recently by other companies that wouldn't come in until we came in. So now the town is like, bustling. Like, today there's a thing going on. There'll be 2,000 people downtown because they have a wine walk. And every single store gives out free samples of wine. I was like, oh, my God. The whole town will be drunk today.

Getting drunk in Clinton. Clinton, Iowa.

So I know this will come on later, but check out when they have a wine walk. I'm telling you, it's worth the drive over to the town to go there. Because every business gives out food, wine samples just to get you downtown. I am telling you what, it is the biggest party you've ever seen.

That is awesome. That's such an awesome thing there for you. So kudos to you guys. Keep up the good work. I'm sure the value of those properties have skyrocketed. Now since you've got cash flow and noi and cap rates are going through the roof there for you, which is awesome.

Yeah. We were actually going to sell a couple of them. I'm like, you know, know, I don't want to sell them. I want to keep them and pass down that generational wealth to our kids and our grandkids. And even my little grandkids we bought for their birthday. Each one of them got like a gumball kind of candy machine and we put them in the buildings. So now they. They go to Iowa. Like, I'm going to go check on my investments. And then six year old Randar, she got a key. She opens her machine, takes all of her quarters out, she goes and buys candy or whatever, puts it in and puts the rest in a bag and she's like, got a. A bag of money.

Gotta love it, love it, love it, love it. Dwan, this has been awesome. It's been such a good time today with you. Look forward to hanging out with you some more. She's gonna be one of our guest speakers on our upcoming notecamp convention. Everybody here in a couple months here. So we're looking forward to coming on.

Thank you, Scott.

Oh, no. Honored to have you guys. Make sure you give Bill a high five for me. Say hi as well.

I will.

Good stuff there. Well, guys, go take some action. Check her out. Check out her podcast, check out her website. She's got four of those giveaways for you guys. And learn some stuff. It was. She's been the most wonderful guest, as we know, a lot of energy. Check out the most wonderful real estate podcast out there. And we'll see you guys all at the top. Everybody be safe. See y' all later.