EP 674 - Buying Notes From Banks: Is It Possible?

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This is the no Closer show where you get the latest developments in distressed note investing and learn the secrets of how you can control millions of dollars worth of property for panties on the dollar. Get educated and entertained by someone who has closed thousands of deals and lives to support you in achieving the same. Now here's your host CEO of We Close Nodes, Scott Carson.

Hey everybody. On this episode, I'm going to share with you 10 different ways to find note deals and share with you how to have the bank say yes to you to send you some note deals. And yes, banks will sell you notes if you know what to say, know what to do, and then also know how to follow up and market like it's the 21st century, not like it's the 18th century, like a lot of other people are doing incorrectly. So go out, make sure you listen to the whole episode. You'll love the 10 ways I share with you and make sure you like and subscribe. We'll see you later. Good morning, good afternoon, good evening everybody. Welcome to this episode of the no Closer Show. As always, Scott Carson. Excited to be here with you today. I've got a great topic for today's podcast and I bring this topic up every once in a while and I'm always amazed at where people get their information from. And I'm also amazed at the disinformation being provided in the note industry. And I think part of it comes from a sales tactic to sell more workshops or coaching or stuff like that with other people out there or the fact that I hate to say it, but a lot of investors are lazy and don't want to do work. So this topic is all about yes, banks will sell you notes if you know who to talk to and know what to say. You're just not going to be able to walk into your local bank fall over and the VP of the branch fall over with his list of notes that they have available. Now I say this being a previous banker for those that don't know. I was a mortgage banker for years, originating loans all across the country as a mortgage banker. Prior to that, I was also a mortgage Banker for Bank One and then JPMorgan Chase or Chase bank and became vice president of local bank. I helped open like 20 branches around Austin, Texas here and it was one of the top bankers in all of Texas for Chase. Now I had a few people that actually walked in my bank when I was a banker there and asked me to buy Chase's notes and I didn't know it at all. I was like oh no, we don't sell our notes. Well, if you just go into your local bank and ask that and you're dealing with a banker who's been there, who's a young guy, wet behind the ears, been there for a while, but not a small bank, a national conglomerate like Chase or Citibank or Wells Fargo or big banks like that, of course they're going to tell you they don't sell their notes because they don't know. I didn't know, I was an idiot then. I didn't know what was going on out here. So don't take it for granted that you're probably talking somebody at the bank, they're not the right person to talk to. Even though the bank presidents, the regional managers, a lot of times district managers don't know if the banks will sell their non performing notes on those bigger banks. So this is why we always like to tell people, hey, look at the regional banks and smaller banks, but don't go into your local bank, okay? Don't waste your time going in and talking to your local bank or open your checking or savings account or gave you a loan on the property. They don't know. Now I, I will make one exception, an asterisk next to who made the loan. If you're dealing with a smaller bank and smaller bank, I'll say less than say 20 branches or 10 branches. A lot of cases. Or it's a one off branch. Specifically, yes, the person that made the loan, the loan officer may be the person servicing the loan, maybe the person who's responsible for it. So we've seen that in small one off banks. We've seen that in smaller branches, usually five branches less, where the person making the loan is the one responsibility and they may not sell that note at a big discount or a discount, all because the bank may be able not to take that financially as a hit to their bottom line. Okay? But I get plenty of bankers that have reached out to me. I bought plenty of notes direct from banks over the last 14 years that sold to me. Never asked me proof of funds, never asked me a variety of different questions. What's your credit score? I knew what to say, I knew what not to say and I acted the part. I looked good online, okay? With a website and experience, I knew what I was talking about and that worked. That's one of the biggest things that most people don't understand. If you pass the smell test, you can often get stuff if you know what to say or not to say with no experience. And that's the beautiful thing is you have vendors that can help you with your deal flow. You can help. You've got vendors that are going to help do all the heavy lifting. If you've got attorneys and servicing company, guess what? That checks off roughly 2/3 of the conversation that you're not going to be embarrassment if that bank sells you one off note. Now there are people out there outside of Texas and in Texas that say you ain't big enough, the bank ain't going to sell to you because you don't know shit, okay? You're not big enough. They're not going to deal with little old you. Well, that's not the truth. That is so far from the fact of the matter that the true thing is this. Banks will sell you notes. They will sell you some one off notes in cases. Now you're not going to call bank of America, Chase, Citibank, Wells Fargo, whoever, the biggest banks aren't going to sell you a one off residential note. Not going to happen. Now they may sell you a commercial note, okay? They might sell you a one off note on a distressed commercial asset. That has happened. We've seen bought assets from Wells Fargo, Citi, Chase, US bank, some bank of America commercial notes in the past that they were selling. You have to know who to talk to and who not to talk to. So here's the big thing and I don't care if you're working full time as a full time non note investor, your side hustle is note investing. That's totally fine. Banks will sell to you if A, you have the cash and B, you don't act an embarrassment to them. Okay? You've got the vendors, the servicing and you can find banks aren't going to ask for earnest money most of the time. So you're buying a one off note unless it's a larger trade than they may ask for a deposit of some sort. But most of the time banks want a very clean transaction when it comes to closing. That means one wire at the day of closing. All right, so first of all let's get some ideas out of the way there. Let's get some falsehoods out of the way. So I think the first one, yes, banks will sell you notes. That's the first one, okay? Anybody tells you that if they want, they either A aren't doing it, they aren't in the note business or B, they're trying to sell you on their coaching that you have to go through them, all right? It is what it is. I don't necessarily agree with that. But I tell you right now, when we teach people how to do it, we teach them how to fish so that I don't have to give them a fish every day, that they should go out and find deals themselves. All right, right now we have a variety of individuals actually calling bankers, actually calling banks, calling servicing companies and getting lists sent to us, getting their contact information to follow up. Once ever Covid finishes, whether it's the end of this month, October, January, whenever it ends, banks are going to be looking to move. We're already having these conversations. We were having these conversations prior to Covid from different banks across the country who were looking to move individual assets. Now, the biggest thing that is affecting the banks right now is not really the residential loans. Yes, those that originate, but they're government insured, the government back, they're not going to take a big loss on those at all. You're not going to buy much of that stuff. What you're going to see and what's clogging up most of the bank's books right now is that small balance commercial, that sub $5 million value commercial asset. Now, the thing about commercial assets, it's not the same type of underwriting. It's not the same type of due diligence for a commercial loan than it is for a residential loan. First and foremost a residential loan, a bank's going to be financing that probably 90% or greater on a primary residence. If it's an investment property, they may go to 70% or greater, depending on what kind of platforms they have or lending opportunities they have. On a commercial deal, the banks will only probably finance up to 70, maybe 80% of that transaction, 80% of that purchase price. They prefer to actually be below 70%. But what has happened over the last few years is that more of that small balance commercial has been financed by local banks, not Wall Street. Wall street likes the big 5 million above assets. That's really where they like to play. That's where they make their money. What does that mean for us? It means there's a huge amount of deal flow. If you know your commercial assets, if you know asset classes, if you know assets in an area, you really need to know this on a city by city, asset class by asset class, because every asset class has a different way of determining value. Obviously, you've got to figure the net operating income. You got to figure the cap rates. Is it occupied, Is it baking? There's a lot more stuff versus just checking, hey, what's the rent rate or what's the BPO or what's Zillow? Tell me the value is and what's barometer. Tell me the rent rate is. Okay, different. So you need to know market, you need to know what's going on in that state. Need what's going on that asset. What's going on with those tenants In a variety of fashions. Now I'm separating off apartments from other type of commercial because apartments you can kind of do pretty relatively easy. Is it, what's the rent rates on these? Is it individually metered? What's the expense ratios and that kind of stuff? What's the rent look like? Have the rents been upgraded? How are they in line with markets? A little bit easier on the apartment side to pull due diligence than it is on a strip mall or in a restaurant or a vacant storage facility, whatever it might be. You need to know the asset class. But here's the thing. Yes, banks will sell you notes and how do you get them to say yes to you? That's the million dollar question, right? How do you get a bank to say yes versus no? Well, first and foremost you got to reach the right department. And the right department is going to vary by the name of the class. You're not going to walk into the bank, we know that for sure. You're not going to talk to the teller and drive through. You're not going to talk to the VP of the bank. Look, I was a VP of bank. Banks give out the title of VP to anybody that's technically above a. And I won't say above a teller, but above a personal banker for the most part. VPs into your bank manager, regional manager, stuff like that, your commercial residential stuff. But anyway, the main titles you're going to go for, first of all, you're not walking a local bank. You want to call the bank's corporate offices, okay, whatever that bank the bank name is, we want to reach out to their state corporate or the regional corporate office or their national corporate office. Now how do you find that number? It's hard sometimes. It's not calling 1-800-with-A customer service line that's a dead end for you. Most of the banks will have a main office number or they'll have a couple departments that you can reach out to. Now the first department for the bigger banks we often see is special assets department. Not assets, but special assets department. Now we also will find people online that work at specific banks who have that job title by going to LinkedIn and doing a search for special assets manager. Okay? So when you're calling the corporate office for bigger banks. Say hey, I'm looking for your special assets department. Trying to track down your special asset managers. Now it's often nice if you leverage LinkedIn before making endowment for dollars by looking for a person who has that title in that bank. Now some of them are going to be active on LinkedIn. Others that have been around the older crowd, more gray hair probably aren't going to be on LinkedIn a lot of time. They may have a profile, but they may not be very active. So looking at profiles on LinkedIn are great as long as they've got a face and a picture and some connections. If you see an empty gray slot where a photo should be in less than 500 connections, they're probably not active on LinkedIn. But at least you have a name or a past name that you can reach out to. When you call it corporate office, you're going to hold a special assets department. So the first title is special assets department. Second title is secondary marketing. Secondary marketing department is another title for the bigger banks and regional banks out there. They're looking to move those assets off on the secondary market. Wall Street, Main street investors like you and me. So looking for secondary marketing, you'll see that in a lot of hedge funds or REITs will have a secondary marketing department where they bought a portfolio or some of these larger note funds have bought a portfolio and then they're looking to move it back out to the market. Whether it was a non performing note that's now reperforming, they're looking to recapitalize at a profit, increase the velocity of capital or they bought some performance stuff that's now non performing that they want to get off their books. So secondary marketing is the second one. Third one is going to be your chief credit risk officer. This is going to be in your smaller regional banks, statewide banks, stuff like that. Your chief credit risk officer. You can also look on LinkedIn obviously for chief credit risk officer for banks or also secondary marketing department. And then the final name would be you'll see that with a lot of insurance companies or bigger trends, whole loan trading department, the whole loan trading desk is a pretty good way to go. But you're often going to find some portfolios that they're looking to move. They may not be looking to sell one off. Notes on a whole trading officer. We've seen that title across different institutions out there. So those are always the four biggest names to look for. Now LinkedIn's a great resource. Lane guide.com we've used for years. Lane Guy might be a little bit outdated, but I would still say that 2/3 of the contacts on there are good online guide. Lane Guy will allow you to do some searches. It's really easy to do pull a list. In this matter of doing what most people don't want to do and what I mean by that, well, people we all know are inherently lazy. Look at what's going on in the economy out there. People are making more unemployment. They don't want to go back to JO B. They don't want to go to W O R K. They're lazy. L A Z Y. Okay, Work is a four letter word for most people and unfortunately for most real estate entrepreneurs, work is not something that they want to do. By work I don't mean going out and digging ditches or painting walls or rehabbing properties. This is the 21st mindset way of doing work and that's marketing. What you mean I just don't have a name here? You mean they were not going to send me a list? No, you've got to market to asset managers. You've got to market to the hold on trading desk. Whether that's jumping on LinkedIn and connecting, finding an email, sending an email blast, or guess what, picking up the phone and dialing for dollars. And most people don't realize that is still. I mean we're all in sales, we're all in media, but we're also still all in sales if you're looking for deals. And yes, I know it can be frustrating. Oh, I gotta make 50 phone calls to get one list or two lists. Yeah, it all comes down to what you're saying too. There are specific things you want to say and specific things you don't want to say. You never want to mention the word reo. Okay, A lot of people, like I'm looking for notes and REOs. No, don't say that. That'll just turn you off to the corporate office. They'll just send you the REO department, which is just a voicemail box that says call you the agent, the listing agent. So don't mention reos. You also never want to say you're representing a buyer. They don't need reps, they don't need buyer reps, they don't need buyer mandates. That's a bunch of bullshit. Anyway, they want to be dealing with direct end buyers. Okay? And you and I are always buying for our own portfolio, even if we're looking to wholesale that deal later on or that's our strategy is wholesaling versus taking it down ourselves. You're always still buying for your own portfolio. You want to repeat that? I'm buying for my own portfolio. I'm buying for my own portfolio. Say it a few times, something grained in. Well, Scott, I don't have the money to buy a $5 million commercial asset. What the heck am I going to do? I don't want to do this. What they're going to send me some stuff and I want to do. The idea here is to chill. Okay? You don't have to say yes. They're not asking for your firstborn or your right arm or your left arm in some cases. We all know that banks and institutions will raise capital or investors are raising capital if they funds. It's a process. It's not close on it in a week. Especially in commercial assets, you may get 60 to 90 days of due diligence to close on a deal. And it may take some time for them to go back and forth and pulling the information that they need. Well, you have to realize if a commercial asset is non performing, that means the bank's probably not getting the financials. They're probably not getting a lot of information. So it takes them a little while to go through that. And that's what's unique about commercial assets is if you take the time and really become Sherlock Holmes, as I like to joke about when it comes to commercial assets, you may have to do your own due diligence on the assets to figure out what's going on. And you may know more about that asset than what the bank knows. Now, why do I like dealing with banks directly? Well, banks, if they've got the information, they're going to share it with you because they are going to do full disclosure versus dealing with a website or going through a third party or a broker. My big frustration right now is dealing with real estate agents who have a connection with the bank and they try and sell commercial assets, but they're screwing up the shit more than they're actually providing value. Okay, if they would just sign their fee agreement and step aside between the people that are trying to buy and the people that try and sell to be a whole lot easier. We've had plenty of realtors. I hate to say attorneys screw shit up more than they actually add value in some cases. But anyway, let me digress. You want to be specific in communicating what you're looking for. I'm looking for non performing residential loans or non performing commercial loans. First liens. You're not going to see a lot of junior liens out there, ladies and gentlemen. Sorry about that. But the beauty of buying direct from banks is a you're not dropping thousands and thousands of dollars on postcards. A traditional investor sending out to out of state owners or things like that. We don't do that in the notes space. You're sending an email blast. Yeah. You're going to spend some money on having an email service provider like Mailchimp or our friends@keepkeep.com or something that you send out to track your emails you may be using. May want to Upgrade to the $99 Premier Special on LinkedIn so you can send more InMails. Okay. And you may be making more phone calls directly to asset managers and you may take some phone calls and follow up because we all know 80% of sales comes after the fifth contact. So if you can follow with an email or a phone call on LinkedIn and repeat that process a couple times, it's just a matter of following up. Following up, following up with everybody to see what's going on. Making sure you're getting inside the inbox or the phone call or just on LinkedIn with people saying hey, what do you have now? Not every bank has something available this quarter or this month. A lot of banks will have to save money and build the reserves up to offset the losses on selling a note at a discount. So you can always look at the bank's quarterly reports by going to fdic.gov and seeing if a bank is starting to increase the reserves. It's a great tool for that. You can also look at. One of our favorite sources is Bauer Financial. No, it's not named after Donna Bauer. Bauer Financial is a third party independent class ranking company that ranks banks and credit unions and where they're at. But you can actually buy a list off of Bauer Financial that'll show you what kind of percentage of the bank's portfolio is in default. Whether it's residential, commercial and dollar amount and percentage of the overbank values and stuff like that. Which gives you a good idea if they've got anything that's non performing. Okay. It's almost like a roadmap to success. Now you just gotta follow that list and then go from there. But anyway, that's a great starting point. Go in there pulling a Bower Financial list or going to fdic.gov and look at the most recent quarterly filing for that institution, that bank and going from there. Hey, I see you've got stuff this quarter or this next month or you had stuff that was this much in Non performing or 30 to 89 days late last quarter. How much of that is rolled into non performing this quarter? What are you looking to move the end of this quarter, the end of this month, end of this year? Okay, so keep that in mind. Here's the thing that frustrates a lot of people is that they can't make just 20 phone calls and get 20 deals sent to them. You have to realize that there is a certain, I'd say gamification or numbers that you got to follow. You make 50 phone calls, you'll probably talk to 14 to 20 bankers and you'll probably get one to four. Listen to you. Now that list will vary. I mean you have a lot of asset managers selling what's called S and D or scratching debt loans. That's where a borrower may be late, they may be in forbearance agreement. They may be missing some documents from the closing, maybe a truth in lending or good faith estimates on signs. There may be something wrong with the paperwork, but the loan may still be good. You also may have a lot of newly originated stuff at low interest rates that really isn't worth your time to look at it. Because if the loan's at 2%, it's hard for you to make any money on that. Unless they're going to take like a 25 cents of the dollar to get it to 8% return. If it's scratching dent and the bank's just not going to take that big a loss. Okay, so you got to look at. And I almost want to say that the objective when you're buying notes first and foremost is always get people try to get them re back on track and reperforming. But if they haven't made a payment 6 months or 12 months or they haven't gone through a forbearance agreement like what's been offered up across the country Covid then you need to look to foreclose is where you're going to see probably the biggest bang for your buck right now. Especially as the interest rates are low. Doesn't really make sense to modify or reinstate somebody if you've got to pay still 70 cents on the dollar for a non performer. It just doesn't make sense. Now you're going to see a bigger bang for a buck when it comes to foreclosures. Deed and lose on the higher valued assets. And I'm talking assets that usually are valued over 200 grand or more. Yeah, you can make some money on reperformers at lower values. You just got to know what the cost of your money is if you're using your own funds or somebody else's and what's that going to cost you if you've got to split the cash flow coming in from a reap performer? So take a look at that and understand it. This is why marketing is so important. The same tools that you're using to reach out to asset managers off of lists that you've built are the same tools you're going to use to raise capital to make things happen. Okay? And we've had plenty of banks, plenty of hedge funds do deals with us that we're talking, we're not talking $5 million or $2 million or $1 million, plenty of funds of close sold those deals that were 25 grand, 50 grand, 100 grand as well. Now the question you are going to ask me now is like okay Scott, how do you find those funds? Well, that's kind of the next step besides banks selling you notes, go reach out to them on a regular basis and follow up, follow up, follow up. That's the key is that most of these bankers don't have a list that they're sending out to on a regular basis. They don't have those type of tools like we do with mailchimp or keep or something like that. They may have a short list. So the more you can follow up with asset managers at banks, the more likely you're going to get something if you just continue to follow up, ladies and gentlemen. Okay. And systematizing your marketing can be very valuable. What you have to realize is sometimes your systems and sometimes your email campaigns, the simpler they are, the better are that they don't get caught by spam filters at banks. And a lot of these bankers, banking institutions have a very, very in depth spam filter to avoid crap coming in and them getting taken over by digital terrorists like we've seen in some of the corporations happening out there. But anyway, other ways to find note deals, pretty simple. We talked about languide, we Talked about the FDIC.gov list. You may want to look at Scotsman Guide. That's Scott with one T, not two T's. But scotsmanguide.com is a great place to find lenders that are lending on residential and commercial properties now the same thing, they're lending on those type of properties now. Probably a lot of them, especially on the commercial side are going to be portfolio lenders that have held onto the loans that may be non performing. So if they're originating loans, they probably have some stuff on Their books. So we use Scotsman Guide to find commercial lenders and specific asset classes that may have some stuff on their books. It's been profitable and fruitful in the past and still continues to be another thing you may want to look at. I like to track a couple of counties across the country and I literally going to the county clerk's office online through Netra online net online.com and going to the county recorder's office and seeing who's buying a sign. That's what assignment of mortgages have been filed. Now if you've never bought a note before, an assignment of mortgage is what transfers the ownership. It's like it's not a deed the property. The borrower's name on the property. John Smith is still John Smith of the notice. So they have what's called an assignment of mortgage saying that a this note has been transferred from Chase to ABC Lending. All right. And the thing that I like looking at is looking at assignments that have been filed in the last 30, 60, 90 days. A lot of times transfer also go back a year ago to previous year and look at what transferred a year ago because you got to think about what's going on right now. Well, a year ago people were still kind of in that process of figuring out what they were to do with forbearance agreements and stuff like that. But I like looking at the names, the entities. And it's pretty easy to do a search for assignments across most county clerks. And that gives you the institution that either originated or owned the note and then the new institution that bought that transfer the note to. I mean you may find 5, 10, 15,000 assignments, individual names. So like that's what we see in Harris county is one of the counties that we track. That's Harris county, biggest county in the state. So it gives us a lot of LLC and entities. Those LLC that they're being transferred to are note investors like you and me. And that's another source of note deals is actually contacting note buyers, looking at the assignment of mortgages who bought the note. Maybe they have more in their portfolio than before. Also looking back in the past, one of the things that we've done is looking at contract for deeds which are in the smaller value. That's sub $100,000 value. But I look in Ohio, Michigan, Indiana, Illinois, Carolinas for contract for deeds and then looking for one or two or three of the biggest contract for deed originators back a few years go by searching for that entity and then looking to see who they sold that deed. To who the deed transfer was. So like looking at harbor portfolio in Ohio and the biggest counties, doing a search for all 2017, 2018, you'll see that they transferred it from harbor to Greystone harbor to Ohio, Opportunity Fund Ohio to Inverse Asset Fund Ohio to whatever the entity might be. And then contacting those individual investors that bought that contract for deeds because they probably have some stuff on their portfolio has been fruitful as well. So that's a couple of ways to do that. I mean you can also, if you want to, you can jump on some of the list platforms. I'm not a fan of some of the loan platforms right now just because the fact that so over picked and you have these loan platforms that don't really, I hate to say this, don't really govern their listings that well. They like to slap stuff up on the wall and try to get somebody to buy something and they're not really underwriting the deal. And if people are putting deals on there that they're wanting non performing note at 90 cents on the dollar, well that doesn't make any sense a lot of times or performing notes that are at a 5% yield, that's great. It's really watered down a lot of the platforms out there because that's just shit. And then when you start seeing those platform owners that have their own notes trying to sell them on other platforms or through other brokers, it tells you that their platform is just not really successful and it's just not worth wasting the time. I did a note Night in America episode on helping people find their first deal a month or two ago and I was just really disappointed about what I saw. I was able to find some deals, but I had to go through a whole lot of crap to find a deal that would make sense or two. And it was just downright depressing. We talked about deed records, talked about loan platforms, Scotsman guide, LinkedIn, foreclosure lists. Oh my God, almost forgot about this. Foreclosure lists are a great way to find distress notes. You may be asking, well, Scott, you can't foreclose right now. You can't foreclose, you can't evict. I know that. But you can also see a lot of. If you're especially looking for owner finance notes and maybe somebody would take a discount. A lot of people have owner finance properties to LLC to investors and stuff like that. That's what you see pop up right now. You don't see a lot of owner occupants getting foreclosed out on. It's more Investor loans, second loans and stuff like that. Hard money lenders, great way to deal with a higher yield on that stuff. But go look at your foreclosure list in particular states that started a foreclosure process. Same thing. You'll see who the lender is. You'll often see who the LLC or the individual is. Kudos if you find a self directed IRA investor who's foreclosing out somebody they lent money out of. Because that's an investor style loan. There's never going to be owner occupied for the most part unless somebody really did something stupid. But that's a great way not only to find note deals, but also find potential funding partner who's funded a note deal that probably has some money that they'd be willing to invest or may be willing to transfer ownership of that loan or some sort allow you to take it over. Fish at the bars, want to walk away. They may be willing to finance that note to you. So that's like a double whammy, a double bonus there. Not only finding a non performing note deal, but also finding an investor who understands note investing, who's lent money on a note, who may be willing to put some money to work if you're doing stuff. That's the thing. Basically. 10 ways besides using Lane guide to find a list, Scotsman guide finding other lists, jumping on LinkedIn to find the right person. Looking at assignment of mortgages to the counties, looking at the deed records as well, looking at the loan platforms, other investors we talked about. This last thing that you look at would be like servicing companies. And there's a lot of servicing companies alone in Texas. I think there's 300 plus servicing companies from all across the country that are doing business in Texas and servicing loans. That's a different conversation. You'd want to contact somebody in their business development office. These servicing companies who know their clients and the business development people are going out and soliciting investors like me and others out there to bring their loans over so they can service them with Madison Management or Allied or Halo or whoever, variety of them that are out there. So making contact with a business development person at the servicing company is valuable. You just want to make sure and follow up with them on a regular basis. And the idea here isn't that you're taking money away from them because if you move loans off one servicer to a different servicer, that business development guy or gal is going to lose some money because they're usually paid a portion of their salary or income is off of how many loans they bring over. So moving it over from one service to another one can affect their bottom line. But the more we're starting to see is servicing companies get larger. They start putting a minimum amount of loans to service or a minimum purchase amount. Like BSI Financial, there's a servicing company, they want a $5,000 minimum a month cost to you. If you, if you only have one loan, you're not paying $100 servicing, you're paying 5,000 for that one loan. That's doesn't make any last sense. So keep that in mind when it comes down to some things. But servicing companies can be a great way. Once again, it's a dollar for dollar, pick up the phone, email, LinkedIn aspect of things. And that's one of the most important things we talked about. You got to have a marketing mindset. And once again, yes, banks will sell you one off. Notes if you know who to talk to, know where to look and know how to contact them. And don't just say dial 10 phone calls and give up. I see that happening all the time. Oh, I'm gonna make 10 or 15 phone calls and then I'm not gonna call anymore because it doesn't work. It works. It's just like any type of Legion, you've got to stick with it. And I've always thought when you Compare mailing out 5,000 postcards, it will cost you like 2,500 bucks with postage alone or other things. Compared to making 500 phone calls over a week or over two weeks, what's going to have the biggest bang for your buck? And I guarantee 500 phone calls over two weeks will be a whole lot cheaper, more affordable. And you'll find more deals versus dropping out 5,000 postcards where you might get 1 4% response rate. And then you still only deal in one deal, one borrower, and you still got to do it every month. Whereas once you built a banking list or a list of asset managers that have stuff available, they will feed you on a quarterly, sometimes monthly basis or refer you to other things out there. So go out, take some action. And yes, banks will sell you notes if you know who to talk to, know what to say, know what not to say, and know how to follow up and actually market like you're in this business long term. Don't be a pretender, don't be stupid. Oh, it doesn't work. They won't sell to you. Bullshit, they will. I got all the NDAs and the banks that we've closed deals from over the last 14 years to prove otherwise. So go out, take some action. Everybody be safe out there. And we look forward to seeing you all at the top. Bye, Sam.