EP 683 - The Landlord Law School: Bridging The Gap Between Landlords And Lawyers With Bonnie Galam

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This is the no Closer show where you get the latest developments in distressed note investing and learn the secrets of how you can control millions of dollars worth of property for panties on the dollar. Get educated and entertained by someone who has closed thousands of deals and lives to support you in achieving the same. Now here's your host CEO of We Close Nodes, Scott Carson.

Hi there. I'm Bonnie Gallum of the Good Bones Real Estate Investing Podcast. And this week I am so excited to be joining you guys on the Note Closer Show. This week Scott and I talk about my program Landlord Law School. We talk about asset protection and how you can be proactive with your legal stuff rather than waiting for problems to pop up. And I can't wait for you guys to dive into the show. And thanks for joining.

Good morning, good afternoon, good evening everybody. Welcome to this episode of the no Closer Show. As always, Scott Carson. Excited to be here with the day. Really jacked up to have a new friend, new podcasting real estate friend join us here on the episode. She is a rock star. She is a real estate attorney, legal educator and landlord, which I love. So she's actually an investor. Too many real estate attorneys out there just aren't investing. This is one of the greatest things that she helps real estate investors tackle all the different aspects when it comes to being a landlord. She's a owner of a seven figure self managed rental portfolio attorney licensed in New Jersey, Pennsylvania and the founder of Landlord Law School and the Galam firm. She's also the host of a rockin podcast, the Good Bones Real estate investing podcast. You want to check it out? Mom to two toddlers. So you know she's good at juggling balls in there. We're glad to have the awesome Bonnie Galam join us here on the Nutcliffe show this morning. What's going on, Bonnie? How you doing today?

I am doing great. I'm so excited to be with you on your show.

Yeah, that's great. It's always beautiful. I love the podcasting world when it comes to real estate investors. I think we all are like the top 1% that understand leveraging time, leveraging relationships and really bringing out the best in each other in a lot of cases, huh?

Oh, I love it. And I love that the podcast has been a surprising platform for it to do that. I created it cause I wanted somewhere to rant. I had all these legal problems that were coming up and I had nobo to rant to. And so what I really wanted was somewhere that I could just put that out to the Universe, and then eventually grew into meeting new people and having a space to have conversations with them. And especially with the timing of starting it during the pandemic was nice because the coffee dates and the lunch dates were kind of put to the wayside. And so the podcast ended up being a nice little outlet of being able to network and meet new people like you.

Exactly. Ranting. I love that. It's such a great definition for a lot of podcasts. Let me rant.

I am definitely one of those. Usually one or two episodes a month are what I call the legal rant episodes.

Okay. I love this. This is part of the reason I thought it'd be great to have you on here. The show is you being an investor and then also an attorney, and you just admitted there's gotta be some things that get under your skin.

Just a few.

Just a few. If you had to put your top two top three things you rant about, things that just drive you bonkers when talking, whether they're investors in the industry or seeing stuff, what are those things?

Okay, I'll give you the top two. The first being that legal stuff is only things you have to go to when things are going wrong. The legal stuff is so much cheaper and so much easier if you're proactive with it. And I think a lot of people just see lawyers as problem solvers, but we're also problem preventers. And so being able to use your attorneys to create good contracts or to create a whole strategy for your investing business is a lot, lot more powerful and frankly, a lot, lot cheaper than coming to us down the line to clean up messes or to get things that you may have DIY'd tidied up after the fact and usually only know they need to be tidied up when a problem happens, when a tenant gives you an issue or a contractor blows or something needs to be enforced. And so you want to make sure that stuff is good beforehand. Number two is that a lot of real estate investors think they're investors. And I hate the term. It's what we use as an industry, but I think we're really entrepreneurs, but what we're doing is a business. And when you switch that mindset, you realize, oh, there's a lot of things I actually have to do as a business owner, but that's good. It gives us a lot more power, a lot more control, and a lot more opportunity for growth. When you think about all the different facets of being a business owner. And so I just hate the word real estate investor. And I also think it kind of just poo poos on the legal stuff, which of course is like my number one thought as the lawyer, because I see this stuff go wrong for real estate investors all the time, where they're just like, I thought it was going to be easier than this. I didn't think I needed to worry about that kind of stuff. In the note world, borrowing and sharing contracts is a big thing. Or not understanding how title and order of lean priority works out. It's like you don't want to be finding that stuff out down the line. You need to kind of uncover and unravel and realize that you don't know what you don't know. And you need to start finding experts or building out a power team who can help support you as you're going through that discovery process.

I couldn't agree more. We should be Rees versus rei.

That is literally what I try to only use that word in my podcast. I'm like, we are real estate entrepreneurs. We are real estate entrepreneurs. But it's not great for SEO. And so I realize every now and then I'll pull the curtain behind. We're marketers, we want to work with more people. And it's not from a salvage place. I generally want real estate investors not to screw stuff up. And so if I want them to find it, I have to call them. What you guys are looking for. And so if you do search real estate entrepreneur, you might actually find some of my stuff.

Well, but I think you hit the nail on the head there. We always talk with start with the end in mind. And as you grow, you've got to grow. There's expenses, there's things you've got to put in place to protect yourself. And you're right, a lot of investors do things on the cheap. They step over dollars to save a nickel. A lot of times, oh, I'll do that contract myself. I'll recycle the same contract that's been around for.

Oh, God. I should tell you, some of the contracts that land on my desk and I'm like, where did you find it? And like, more often than not, the bad ones are. It's like my buddy from Aria or my investing buddy, like, from the other side of the country, gave me their template and I'm like, this is garbage. So it's definitely one of those things. You don't want to be Pennywise and pound cheap when it comes to the legal stuff. Because I tell my clients, I'm like, there's no cheap legal mistakes. There's None. And so you want to make sure that that ship is straight. But also, like, you want to have this solid foundation because it's a lot easier to scale. And I think from a mindset perspective, you're a lot more confident scaling if you know you've got a solid foundation that you're building upon. I love using the analogy of like, you don't want to be building a house of cards. Yeah, you might be able to get it a little bit up, but at some point the thing's going to topple over. We can't build something that's not structured on a solid foundation. And the reality is that foundation's got to include the legal stuff. You've got to know deeply your exit strategy, whatever your investing strategy is. But then you also need to know, like, what do I need to do to make that legit right?

In real estate, I've never seen a deal go exactly as it was planned out to be. Whether it was rehab in the property or foreclosing on a deal or trying to be. This whole world, the last 18 months has been a full of monkey wrenches thrown into a lot of things. You know, with a foreclosure moratoriums, eviction moratoriums, people are struggling out there. What are you seeing with your clientele? Is seeing anything trends popping up with what you're doing on the legal side?

Oh, definitely. There's a lot of garbage coming to market for top dollar. But I think the risk really comes, particularly here in the Northeast where I'm located, is that we still got pretty strict eviction moratoriums that are phasing out. The plan to be phased out by the end of the year. But that makes things like tenant due diligence when you're buying tenant occupied property all the more important. And if you don't know what questions you need to ask, then you got to make sure your realtor or your real estate attorney knows those questions to ask for you. And one of the things I hear all the time is, oh, it's just a regular transaction. It's just a regular transaction. I'm famous last words. It was just a regular transaction. Because a lot of people don't always see the value in working with real estate attorneys, especially in like a non attorney state. I know some states have mandatory closing attorneys, some don't. I don't work in a mandatory attorney state, but there's still a pretty heavy attorney culture. One, because our realtor form contract is total garbage. We're like an insurance policy. We're extraordinarily cheap, I think, in the scheme of lawyer land. And we're just kind of there to ride along and make sure everything stays clean from start to finish. And I like to kind of see, like, look at what each role everyone needs to really play. What does your lender know and what role do they need to be playing in the deal? And same thing goes with a new realtor. Your real is the one who should be evaluating the dollars of the deal. Is this going to help cash flow? Where's this market going? Helping you evaluate the asset itself. But when it comes to, like, the terms and the legalities and the contract and the due diligence, that's really where having a real estate attorney can add a lot of value, especially I find for newer investors. Look, I've got people who do a bajillion deals a year, and they've been doing this for 30 years. They probably know probably close to as much as I do. Maybe they haven't seen all the horror stories because they just don't get the back end of that, but they kind of know what they're talking about when it comes to the terms that they're seeing over and over again. But for a lot of newbies, it's kind of worth the extra expense to make sure that you know what you're talking about and you know what you're signing.

I love the fact that your license, both in Pennsylvania, New Jersey. Pennsylvania takes about 12 months to foreclose. You're not doing foreclosure work, right? Or are you doing.

No, no, not right now.

That's smart. You're saying then you're saying it's why you still have hair right now, right?

A little bit. I got some on my head. I know we were fluffing it up.

Before we started, but I'm saying because if you were doing foreclosure work in New Jersey, taking two years plus to foreclose in that state, it's a little difficult, obviously.

Yes. It's a much longer process. I've got some clients who are foreclosing on tax liens and things like that, but it's definitely not the bulk of my practice. And it is. It's a long, long, long foreclosure state that if you were to go look at the auction history, it probably has three years worth of postponements on top of it. And so it may not be, if you're looking to do note investing at the very top of the list. It's probably towards the bottom of the list of the 50 states to do note investing in for that reason. But that's not to say that I don't have note investors or people, particularly in the private money space. That is a big area in this area. And I've seen some wild, wild situations or like one page promissory notes and I'm like, this is not enough, guys. Like, I don't get paid by the word, but trust me, like you want to have certain things in there that are actually going to protect you.

Well, here's the thing is when you see this is because people try to go cheap and they don't want to spend a couple hundred bucks to have an attorney review a document or they don't want to take the time. It's an investment in their business long term. Like we had Brent Bisque from Waffle and Associates on a couple nights ago talking about how people are using LLCs. Like they use the same LLC for everything they do. So they're co mingling funds, their deals, their regular nine to five businesses and other things like that. And that's a recipe for failure at some point down the road.

Oh yeah, that's like do not pass go pierce the corporate veil. You wasted money forming that LLC to begin with.

Exactly. All your hard work gone because somebody was sued you if you didn't do it.

Right, right. I mean, it's one of those things when it comes to LLC is no matter what your investing strategy is, I always say you can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want to have the protections that come with being a business, then you got to act like a business and you got to have that separation. You've got to have the corporate formalities. And it's not as simple as, you know, going paying 125 bucks to your state to form the LLC and you set it and forget it. I wish it was that easy. But for better or for worse, it's not. That's not to say that it's hard. It's just it's not as simple as I think some people think it is. I've seen a lot of sloppiness post LLC formation.

Oh yeah, exactly. Now, let's talk about you as a re. Not a re. A real estate entrepreneur. Have you always been interested in real estate? It was just something that you wanted to do all the time or it was just something that evolved recently or how long. Let's talk about that.

Sure. A mix of both. I have always been interested in real estate. I mean, I remember as a kid sitting in the living room Going through the MLS book and like circling all the queer cool houses back when it was a book, before Zillow. And for my birthday I would take my border's gift card and would go buy house blueprints. I loved real estate. And then when I went to law school, I went thinking I was going to be a criminal lawyer. I don't know where in my head that I was like, this is where I'm going to go when. I've always loved real estate. My husband, who I met while I was in law school was already a real estate investor. And eventually it just evolved. I was behind the scenes doing a lot of this work and I was like, I like it. I'm freaking better than this lawyer that we're paying for. And but since I was working for the government, I couldn't actually do anything. Like we'd have to do an eviction and we'd have to hire someone else because I was a useless government attorney. And so about three years ago I hung my own shingle saying, careful, he's.

Listening.

That'S fine, they can hear me, they can come find me. I'm. No regrets. Look, I had a great time. I was a criminal prosecutor for three or four years and it was probably the most fun job I will ever have, but it was just not sustainable. The pay is really bad working for the government. And so that is a chapter that has now closed.

There you go.

But I wanted to create a law firm that worked with real estate investors the way I wanted to be worked with. I saw the ways that our attorney was surprise billing and there was no real understanding of. I felt like the business part of what we were doing. And so I was like, hey, for a lot of this stuff there's a business option or a legal option. Like when we had a non paying tenant, no one was ever suggesting, hey, why don't you do cash for keys? Or why don't we talk about maybe just seeing if they want to leave early, let's get a mutual lease termination in place. It was just like, yep, evict. And I'm like, that's not good for me, the landlord. And it's terrible for the tenant. And so for us this doesn't make sense. And I saw that it was because they were only looking through things as the lens of a lawyer. What can they bill for? What can they go to court for? And let's take that retainer. And I was like, that's not how I want to work. And so that is not how I work. I work on Flat fees. And so that way there's some cost predictability. I'm like, we sit there and we analyze what's the rehab budget going to be and what's our closing cost and everything. And then it's like the lawyer's just like, well, we'll see it closing whatever the invoice is that I submit is what you owe me. And I'm like, well, that doesn't really work as a real estate investor, because we've had those bills where we're like, oh, it should be 1500, 2000, and then you're like, 3700. Like, where did that come from? And it never felt good. It didn't feel integrity, and it just felt lazy to me. There's plenty of attorneys who bill hourly, but I'm like, let's actually think about this. What is the value of this product based off of something other than just attorney time? And I also just felt like it was a conflict of interest. Had no incentive to get things done quickly or efficiently because then they wouldn't be making money doing it. I was like, how do we just find a number that meets in the middle and makes sense for everybody?

Well, and it's a value of your time, but it's also value those relationships. You're approaching it. As a business owner, how can we help save our client money and be still be effective with these, I don't say outside the box alternatives to litigation, but simple things. Cash or keys, deed and lose, mutual termination of the lease. Those are great things. But not everybody knows about it because they're used to going down one singular path and.

Exactly. And that was a big reason why I had created Landlord Law School, was that I was like, I need somewhere for this to be cheap and accessible and something where it's like an ongoing resource that they can just turn to and say, hey, look, I'm coming up with this issue with this tenant. How should I navigate it and just give them different ways and different options? Say, hey, this is where you want to go. You've got three different templates over here. And so it's one of those things where I felt like there was this gap in terms of what lawyers were saying and how things were actually operationally happening for landlords and investors more generally on the ground. It's very easy for lawyers to kind of preach from the mountaintop of like, this is how it should be done. I'm like, but like, what if we just tried to settle it? Or what if we just tried to shorten this? Because that's where the greatest value of time is usually for investors is like, how do I make this end as quickly as possible? And so whether it's doing a deed in lieu, some sort of consent agreement with a tenant, avoiding eviction, or even just if you're firing a contractor or something, like, how do we make this end as quickly as possible? Because nothing happens cheaply when you extend it. The lawyer fees go up, the holding costs go up. All of that stuff just gets extrapolated and then it spirals. And so for me, I was like, how do I make this as quick as possible across the board? Because the only thing that's more valuable to real estate investors than the money is their time. And so that's the way I looked at it from real estate investor first and then a real estate attorney second.

No, that makes a lot of sense. Some of the best counsel I ever got was from my attorney on a variety of things. I'll get a good example. I bought some stuff in Florida that we ended up foreclosing on. So we're in the process of rehabbing the property, and then we go to closing. You'll love this. Somebody threw a 8500 lien on the property, a mechanics lien, and they never did the work. They're just out there searching for foreclosures to throw a lien on, slap liens on, slapping a fraudulent lien on. They're hoping that we would settle versus paying. And I learned long time ago not to do that. So what we've done, one of the best advices is throwing on over encumbering the property to tie up the equity in case of those fraudulent liens in a lot of cases. And that was one of the most valuable things, meeting with my real estate attorney to do that. And the counsel that he gave. This is why we have you on, because you've got such great counsel and great tools, tactics for people. So let's talk about that, the Landlord Law school. Tell us more about that. Tell our listeners out there, because I think it's so, so valuable of what you're doing. Sure.

So Landlord Law school came to be basically when the eviction moratorium happened. It was something I was simmering on in the back of my head. And then when Covid happened last year, I was like, boom, this needs to come to life, Bonnie. Like, no more just toiling about it in your head. And so I thought, hey, landlords don't have access to due process anymore. We have been completely stripped of our access to the courts. So what's the alternative. And it was what I was literally doing in our own investing business, which was we had tenants who told us they can't pay rent. And for some of them it was just a matter of waiting for workers to come and not workers come, the unemployment to come in and they got right back on track. And so for them we're like, hey, let's set up a payment plan and spread out that month or two over the rest of the lease. And then for some of them it was like, hey, we're going back to our parents house, we want to get out of Dodge. Great. Lease termination, you're out. Because for us we're like, you know what? I'd rather have a vacancy than a non paying tenant that I can't get out. And so we also did cash for keys on some people who were non paying and they maybe just needed a little bit of extra help to go somewhere else. And I get that cash for keys doesn't always have to be like a bribery. It can be like a gift to be like, hey, I know you're going to have costs associated with this move. And so those were the first three or four templates that went up just on my website. I was like, hey, you guys need this stuff? Here it is. And then it grew to now over 30 templates, 30 video lessons on how to legally protect your investing business, how to manage your investing business, how to grow your investing business. Because there's all these, I think asset protection, which is loosely what this is about, is kind of sold as LLCs and trusts and period. That's it. But from my perspective, LLCs and trusts and insurance are only there to catch you when things go wrong. They don't do anything to prevent it in the first place. And that was like my whole thing, like, let's prevent this stuff. And so I'm like, how do we get good contracts in place for partnerships and for our contractors and for private money lending? And what is lending? Like, what is this whole thing that we're either on the front end or the back end with? And so kind of just giving them this education. I'm like, if I could teach a law school course on real estate investing, what would it be? And that is landlord law school. Basically the price of one law school credit. And I always say I'm like, I'd rather you have a mortgage than a student loan. And so if we can get this as a crash course, but then an evolving, growing database and resource and template library for you to turn to at the drop of a Dime, then that's where there's a lot of value. Because then you're not waiting for the lawyer. You're like, hey, oh, you know what? This situation popped up. I know I've got a template for that to deal with it. And so it's been well received. I'm very excited by it. But it's like my little baby. It's my side project from my firm.

I love that you're taking your knowledge between the ears and replicating it where it's easy for people to get a hold of and maximizing your time and repetition. And the fact that you've got the training videos talking about that, it goes a long way. Obviously, not everybody knows what they don't know. And this makes me.

Exactly. And there was just general. And I don't even call it sloppiness. You just said, they don't know what they don't know. So I'm like, hey, let's talk about fair housing. Let's talk about even, like the ada. And then there's action steps at the end of each episode. Like, go look in your state what the laws are on X, Y and Z. Everything we just talked about. That way you have your own legal database of things and action steps, security deposit protocols, and what are the foreclosure like? There's all sorts of things in there that are. They just don't know what they don't know, and it's not a problem. I think a lot of the education in the real estate investing business is focused on exit strategies. It's like, how do we start in this exit strategy? How do we execute on that exit strategy? Which is important. We can't have the legal stuff if we're not doing the stuff to begin with. But I felt that there was this gap and sometimes there was even bad information floating around, particularly in Facebook groups. Oh, God, help me. When I see some of the things in Facebook groups and I see your face right now, it's like, clubhouse rooms.

Has got to be the worst. Clubhouse rooms has got to be.

I deleted clubhouse. I couldn't handle it. I was like, who are these? I'll say, like, literal nobody. It's like, you have no qualifications. The room I was in, it was a whole bunch of, like, realtors who have never owned a piece of real estate themselves. And I'm like, I'm going to lose my brain hearing about this. And if you want to talk about, like, mindset and all that stuff, have at it. I think there's. Anybody can have a piece of that pie. But when it comes to, like, the execution of it, I'm like, if you haven't walked the walk, then you shouldn't be talking the talk. And there's a lot of those people on Clubhouse.

Yeah, that totally is. Facebook groups get bad counsel because you've got so many people in there, just from different arenas. But the Clubhouse stuff, I haven't been on there in a month and thinking about getting rid of it, but it is. I've listened to it and the same people on there over and over and over. I'm like, if you're on here all day long, it tells everybody you're not doing a damn thing. You're not doing any type of real estate except spouting the filth and bad advice.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of Clubhouse.

So you've got the show. Let's talk about your podcast a little bit because you're doing such a great job on there. The Good Bones real estate investing podcast. Besides you just venting on there. Share a little bit with our audience about some of the different things you're covered on there. You had me on as a guest, which I wanted to be on there. You've got some other amazing guests. Let's talk about the podcast a little bit.

Sure. So the podcast was a space where I wanted to talk about the legal stuff. And I try not to keep it dry and boring and sound like, what's that guy Ben, who was like on like the Dry Eye commercial? And it was a space to talk about what it actually looks like, real estate investing, but then with a legal spin. And so I like to bring on people like you who can talk deeply about a niche and then we can have an actual substantive conversation about like, hey, what's the legal stuff that comes up in your business? Because I find that on a lot of the other podcasts it was like, tell me about this stuff and tell me about your successes and your favorite deals and all of that. But there wasn't ever really a voice about, what does that look like operationally? What does that look like legally? What are you doing to protect yourself? And that was the conversation I really wanted to have. And so I tend to have like one or two rant episodes a month. I've got a Q and A where I get questions from my Facebook group community. And then I tend to have one guest a month to go deep on any different topics. I've had house hackers on there. I've had long distance real estate investors. I've had you the Note Master And I have another interview next week coming up with a woman who does wedding venues and she doesn't even consider it.

Really.

Real estate investing. I was like, honey, this is real estate investing all over the place. You're putting. Airbnb is all over the farm. We need to talk about this.

That's like drama to the 10th in real estate with all the emotions.

I know. So I really wanted to have this space to talk about the legal without just being like, here is the law.

Here's the law that we throw down. But no, it's great. That's why I love it. Listen, some of the episodes. And that's why I was like, hey, let's get you on to talk about it. It's one of the most important things. I think people struggle with it. They're nickel and diming it. I think people are also the unknown to scares a lot of people off from taking action. Because I think especially what's going on the last year, two year. You said something at the beginning about this crap is overpriced.

Yes.

And you need to know what's going on with that and the legal stuff, especially with people leaving and foreclosures and all this other stuff. You've got to really know what's going on in your specific state and market. So you're not doing something stupid legal wise.

Yeah. And I worry about that. Real estate investing has gotten really popular. I'd say the last five or six years, this area has exploded with people who are interested in it and for good reason. Like, there's great tax benefits. It's fun, I think, and it's a great way to make a good amount of money in a lot of different ways. And so no matter what your interests are or where your strengths lie, like, I think there's a way you can make money with that, doing real estate investing. But over the last two years, I mean, we've had interest rates go below 3%. We've had moratoriums on foreclosures and evictions. We've had just a number of things that have affected even just the limitations on travel. And how are we getting documents notarized at closing. And that was an issue for months at the start of this. And so being able to navigate all of that, but also recognize that those are things you should be thinking about and take the pulse of it, but also understand what the pulse of that means. It's not enough. Just be like, yes, I found the pulse. You have to be like, oh, this feels fast, or this feels slow. And Sometimes that takes a little bit longer time. But I think you're probably safer investing when you have a sense of the market where you're either acquiring properties or acquiring notes or whatever the case may be.

I love it. Now you mentioned you and your husband, both attorneys and both.

He is the full time self manager and so he is an accountant by background. He does have his real estate license and that's largely just for us to have our own MLS access and to open our own doors. But he is not really doing that in a, in a career type path.

What do you guys focus on? What's your bread and butter that you like looking at investing in?

Oh gosh, mid sized Maltese. I say like 4 to 10 units near campuses. And so we don't call it student housing. Like we don't have agreements with the campuses or the colleges or anything like that. But they're in, most of them are in Philadelphia. Most of our houses are within two or three neighborhoods. And so by aiming to like niche down that much like something comes to market, like it takes half a synapse of brain energy to be like thumbs up, thumbs down. And more recently than not there's been a lot of thumbs down. We were big investors in Philadelphia and over the last few years we've had a lot of New York money coming into it. We've had a lot of foreign money. I mean that's been ongoing for 10 plus years. I mean they're buying for numbers that just don't make sense in a lot of ways. But for them it's just a safe place to park their money. They're not even looking for cash flow, they're just looking for a stable currency to park their money in. And so it's been trickier to grow over the past few years. I'd say when we first got started 10, 15 years ago, you could go to auction and it was just a matter of how much money could you bring and you could walk out with whatever you wanted. And now it's. There's not even a deal at auction, let alone if there was one, you'd be beating against people who are willing to pay insane amounts of money. And so one of the things we're working on more is sourcing our own deals off market because it's not coming through MLS right now, it's not coming through the auctions. And for the last few years when we've been focusing on having our two little kids at home, it's kind of been okay to coast a bit, but oh man, we are. Itching for a deal. We are itching.

I love it. Well, that's the thing, is you know what you want and you've got multiple sources of income coming in with what you guys are doing.

Oh, totally. Yeah.

You know, exactly. You're looking for. Know what makes sense. Yeah. Philadelphia has been a very hot market, and I think we have had a couple of realtors on recently. Yeah. Sometimes it is overpriced and you have that money. It's like we have in here. And also a lot of money coming in and just overpaying for stuff because they've got cheap interest rate or 0% financing or money costs that they can overbid on stuff. And. And we, as real estate entrepreneurs, we've always got to make sure we got a good return on our investment with our money as well too, for you. So, Bonnie, this has been great. What's the best way for our listeners and audience to connect with you, to reach out to you, whether it's the podcast or to get your legal counsel?

Sure. So there's two places that I like to hang out most reliably. The first is the Good Bones podcast, as you mentioned. The second being my Instagram. Believe it or not, I love hanging out on Instagram. That's at my name, Bonnie Gallum, esq. Often, if something just happened and I'm like, this is infuriating, you will get the in the Moment live thing. I mean, there's no client names. I'm always maintaining confidentiality. But this week I went on a huge long rant about as is sales and how nobody understands what they are and otherwise hit me up on my website. I always do a free discovery call for real estate investors. Free 15 minutes of my time. We can kind of talk about where you're going and how I might be able to help you out.

I love it. I love it. Check it out, ladies and gents. You will not go wrong. Bonnie, this has been a pleasure having you on the Note Closer show. Look forward to having you on in the future and as we get some different type of rants going. How's that sound?

Oh, yes. Happy to rant with you anytime, Scott. Thanks for having me.

All right, everybody, take advantage of the landlord law school what she's offering up there. Bonnie knows her stuff, and as you hear, there's nothing better than getting counsel from an attorney, but an attorney who also understands the mindset, also understands what you're trying to accomplish, and actually has your best interest in mind versus just getting billed for hours. So go out, take advantage of it, and we'll see you all at the top, everybody. Bye.

Awesome. Thanks so much, Sam.