EP 687 - The Key To Working With Realtors With Jennifer Murtland

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This is the no Closer show where you get the latest developments in distressed note investing and learn the secrets of how you can control millions of dollars worth of property for panties on the dollar. Get educated and entertained by someone who has closed thousands of deals and lives to support you in achieving the same. Now, here's your host CEO of We Close Nodes, Scott Carson.

Hey. This is Jennifer Martland from the Real Estate Fight Club podcast. And on this episode of the no Closer show, we are going to talk about the tips that you need to know on how to work and find the best real estate agent.

Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, everybody. Welcome to this episode of the no Closer Show. As always, Scott Carson jacked up, caffeinated, ready to rock and roll. With you today on this episode of the no Closure show, we've got a very special guest, somebody out of a market that we invest in quite a bit, a fellow investor who's also turned realtors, very successful Realtor, a world traveler, a fellow foodie, and somebody who really has her pulse on one of the top markets that we spent a lot of time in. That's the Buckeye State, Ohio, specifically the Cincinnati market. So we're honored to have this rock star who's just kicking ass and taking names and she is a pleasure to talk with. I'm sure we'll have a few laughs on today's episode, but who am I talking about? I'm talking the amazing Jennifer Mertlin. She, like I said, Realtor Investor podcast. She is the co host of the Real Estate Fight Club podcast. So check that out anywhere you listen to podcasts. But Jennifer, welcome to the no Closer show today. Wow.

I should have definitely taken a few extra shots of espresso before. I should know better. How you doing, Scott?

I'm doing. I'm doing great. Feeling back to normal after a case of the flu or whatever like that.

I'm glad you're not dead.

Yeah, exactly. It's always good wake up more. Not being dead, being six feet above.

Exactly, exactly.

It's a beauty thing, but you've really got your pulse in the market there. And I was cracked. You and I were talking beforehand and I was honored to be on your podcast a few weeks back.

And that was pretty fun. I mean, you and I have a passion about like leveraging your income, passive income, whatever you want to call it. And I think notes where there's a lot of myths around buying a note. So I was glad you were able to come on and clear that up.

Yeah, and there's always that Thing where people think you're talking about notes, you're thinking about owner financing. That's roughly it, you know, And I wanted to bring you on because obviously as we, as this thing comes out, the end of December or the beginning of January with our production schedule, you know, a lot of people are setting goals for the new year, what they want to do, investing in real estate, or they're reevaluating their markets. We're seeing an crazy market out there, especially on the retail side of things, where you see a lot of these ibuyers or like Zillow canceling contracts or these other companies out there.

I mean, they're not only canceling contracts. Like, it's like billion dollars or plus worth of contracts. That's insanity.

Yeah. And it just tells you, I think it really goes to show why it's so important to really have somebody to work with. I mean, a lot of those, I guess you could say the gurus out there, oh, you can do real estate without a realtor. What do you need? And I'm like, no, you need to have somebody who knows what the heck they're doing is knowing what's going on in the market.

Right.

Versus trying to, like, because when. When you try to do it all yourself, you end up looking like a. What's the word we look for? Like a natty light tin for a shower head. Like we've seen on here.

Exactly, exactly. I think, though, I mean, to your point, if you're gonna have a terrible realtor, I mean, then the chances are like, unfortunately, a lot of my colleagues are not good. But, like, if you're gonna have a terrible realtor, you're better off doing it yourself. But a good realtor, I mean, the 10% of us that are very good at our jobs, like, yeah, get one of those.

So you're not giving a lot of love out there. 90% of realtors are bad, bad, bad, bad. How do you find this sounds like the name of the podcast episode now, how do you find that 10% realtor? Who knows what the heck they're doing? Who's going to help you out and be an asset to your business?

I know I'm probably going to get in trouble with the national association of Realtors, but not my first time, so that's okay. Okay, so how do you find a good realtor that can really help you? So we get a lot of these calls that are, like, from brand new investors. And in the classes, they're like, hey, hey, guys, find your power team. Like, go find a Realtor and then they call. Right. You can always tell those people. But on the other side, as an investor, you can tell a new realtor too. So what if you're an investor and you're looking to invest in real estate? You've got to find an agent that when they talk, they seem like they know what the hell they're doing. Like they understand what investors do, they understand what wholesaling is. They realize wholesaling is not illegal. Like they have a process for finding off market stuff. They have a pro forma that they use to verify properties. I mean, you can tell.

Yeah. Then that's the thing too. The big red flag is, hey, I'm a new investor. I want to write 20 contracts. Don't waste your time for an hour and blasting out 20.

Not my time, Scott.

Yeah, exactly. But that's, we still see that to this day. We still see that where like people like, oh yeah, get a realtor, just flood the market with 20 offers and it's a different, it's such a competitive market, that shit doesn't work anymore. You really have to do your due diligence. You really not know what's going on and have some type of pro forma, you said, or some sort of, I.

Guess you say, and hone in your process. Yeah. So like we want to know if you're interviewing an agent, like how many investors do you currently work with? Where are you finding, depending on what your strategy is? Maybe in Cincinnati we have a more solid buy and hold strategy. But our, it's, it's a little bit low return than when compared to like 2008, 2010, you know what I mean? But it's better than the fix and flips. Right now we just don't have the spread here. I don't know, does any market have the spread right now?

We don't see a lot of that. I mean that's the thing is the fix and flippers are the guys and gals that are trying to buy REOs or want to be an REO buyer. They're hoping discounts. And that's why I tell people like, listen, it's not, it's not the same market. You've got to evolve. Yeah. And that's, you know, you've got to go into that buy and hold model. If you're buying closer to retail market value, that's really where you got to look at things. That's where you've got to have your systems down. That's where you don't over rehab properties which we all Know, a lot of new investors will do that. You know, like they're going to move into it. Like that's a kiss of death right there.

Well, and you can also look at like the pictures and stuff and say, what is the estimate that we think that this is going to take to get up to the rent that we want it? And like I can look at a property and say, this is what it will rent for. And if the agent doesn't have an idea, because they don't really do rentals, it's not the right agent for you.

Yeah, well, that's the thing. They've got to know what you're speaking. So I sold. I think the myth of that. Hey, an agent, if an agent tells you they're good at both residential and commercial, they're not good at either, right?

That's true. That's very, very true.

And people always ask, well, Scott, how do you. If you're. A lot of our students are investing out of state, they're in Texas or they're in a state that doesn't have a lot of distressed debt or market, they're looking at notes or properties out of state and they're looking for somebody to pull a value, maybe a quick cma, not do a full, full blown bpo. But what are some things that people could say or discuss trying to get somebody to help them out with some initial values.

That's a good question. Because that's like a hard thing. Right? Because the way that real estate agents earn money is by commission. You can guess. It's not hard to pull a cma, but you can also do an automated value a lot of ways. It's like online, you can pull stuff, but you do have to get in a relationship. Like I have a few investors that I do work with that if they ask me can I pull this value, I'll do it. Because when they do buy, they pull me in. Even if they buy off market stuff, they pull me in. But I've had a long relationship with them. That's a tough question, Scott.

And that's the thing is we look at an appraisal is going to be 400 bucks. An external appraisal is going to run you somewhere between 125, 185.

Yeah.

Ask the realtor to spend a little bit of time to do it. I'm glad to pay, you know, 50 bucks for 20 minutes of time if they'll jump online, give me evaluation, and if it's easy for them to drive by and give me a photo Making sure that the photo matches up with the online valuation. I mean, one of the greatest tools that I think that people forget about is the real property reports that NAR offers. The NAR RPR reports that are free.

Yeah, those are free. Yeah. There's a lot of ways to get the free ones. The thing about, like, pay. Yeah, I had thought about that, too. Paying for, like paying the agent. Because they used to pay for BPOs back in the day. It depends on how many you're doing. Right. And if you have an agent that's willing to jump up for $50 and run around town. When I work my. I make $300 an hour. So that 50 bucks is not that enticing. You know what I mean? So it kind of depends. So, like, are the values that they're pulling actually going to be the value of the property? Because I'm not sure that they're actually working day to day in the business. You're better off befriending an agent, but you have to be honest with yourself. Right. Like, am I willing to pull the trigger? What am I looking for? Because if you tell me, hey, I'm looking for a buy and hold, I want a 15% return on my investment, and here's the house, I'll be like, no. I mean, it's not happening. I don't even have to go out there. Like, it's not happening. There's no way.

You speak. It's the truth.

Gets you in trouble.

That's.

But that's.

But that's. Here's the one thing I think a lot of people, when they hear honesty from people, they want to overrule it.

Yeah.

They're like, you're talking to somebody who's got experience, who's boots on the ground. You took a class from somebody hundreds of miles away who's not wrote the.

Class 20 years ago.

Yeah. And they haven't bought. You know, that's different. So he's buying real estate in a specific market. You know, you're taking a class from somebody in a local market. That's actually versus a lot of these, I guess you say traveling circuses from hgtv or they show up, you know, or fan. Merrill's coming to Austin. We're going to show you how to fix and flip houses in Austin.

Like, does that you're not. Yeah, well. And I think you have to almost be willing, like, to take, not get. If it's your first time investing, you've got to be willing to understand that you're going to make mistakes. And just make the mistakes really quickly. And I know it's expensive and try to mitigate that loss. But maybe you're not looking for what's the average. I mean the average return on investment in Cincinnati on a buy and hold is like 6 to 8%. I mean if you get 8%, that's pretty good. It's just not that high. So it's like, okay, well be honest with yourself. And if you just because you're practicing.

Too well, that's the thing is you have to know the markets. And that's if you can see a 6 to 8% based on it. And that's why I like to know business is because we're often taking over assets a lot cheaper than retail buyers. And so the possibility exists for us to make a double digit return, whether it's where they get them back on track and a modification or we get a deal in, take the property back.

Well, and I've been telling people that too. I'm like, you might. If you want higher returns, you have to look at other vehicles because buy and hold is not doing it. There's hardly any fix and flips with that kind of spread. Yeah, look at notes, look at, there's rates you can do. I mean, you can do better in the stock market right now, I like.

To ask you, I'm glad you brought this up because with your background being in a wholesaling side, being a short sale side, are you seeing, with the market being like where it's at, are you seeing an increase in short sales or distressed listings in your.

I haven't seen it yet. I know it's coming, I don't think, because I started wholesaling right in like 2008 and 2009 when short sales were like, I mean they were huge back then. So we were wholesaling short sales before I became a real estate agent. I'm not seeing them, but I know they're coming. I just don't know what the extent's going to be and I doubt that it will be. It won't be the extent as it was before because people are not underwater. So the short sale is going to be a little bit different.

We see a lot of.

Would it be a short. Huh?

Well, exactly. It's more basically, well, a discounted settlement a little bit maybe.

Yeah.

Well, one of the things that we're seeing pop up across the country is in new home builds where people get in and the taxes aren't calculated initially on the right side because it's still based on the Raw land or the lottery improvements.

Right.

You know, they get that nice $4,000 bill after they've been into it and they didn't budget for that. Yeah, exactly. You know, you see a lot of that, hey, $500 down, get in or $1,000 down, get in on a lot of these new home build committees that you see possible.

Yeah, well, you also need a realtor when you do that, because a good realtor and a good lender is going to be like, yeah, well, what are the taxes going to be later? But you know what if everybody thinks that there are going to be short sales and foreclosures, the issue is going to be that they'll have no place to live. And so this is where if you do want to buy and hold strategy, the rents are really high right now. But I don't actually see them going down. I don't know how it would be possible because if all the ibuyers who are holding for rentals are selling, you know what I mean? And we're going to have more tenants in the pool looking for houses that will keep rents high.

We see that happening not just in like San Francisco and Austin where that middle class is really getting squeezed out. Yeah, they don't want to move into something small, but if they sell their house now, they can't buy anything to move into. That makes sense. And that's why you're seeing the transitions from the west coast, people moving to Austin or people moving from San Francisco to Vegas or Reno is a booming market because it's much more affordable in a lot of cases out there. And you look at in your market to Ohio, I mean you've got Cincinnati and Columbus really I guess would say the two brightest stars. But you see a lot of activity in Toledo and Canton and some of the others areas.

But it could be a good opportunity. The hard money lending may because. Or if you were like a little bit flexible, like if you were doing kind of like owner financing or hard money to people who can't get loans, then you can get a higher return on your investment. I mean, if it's kind of a weird thing because if interest rates stay really low, it's going to be really hard to ask for like 10, 12%. But we're assuming that interest rates are going to go up. Right. And if interest rates go up and they can't find a place to buy and the rent is too high, there's an opportunity there for people. If you have cash, well then you.

Also look at those that can't qualify you shouldn't give somebody a 3% loan if they can't qualify for the bank. I mean if you're being the bank being at 8 and 9, 10%, if somebody's got a sizable down payment and they've got challenged credit or they've got a challenge self employed where they don't have the two years of income statements to qualify, got that cash.

But you don't really want to know where it came from.

Like, well, you know, we're not talking like narcos here. Come on now. All right, People showing up with boxes of suitcases of cash, you know, what kind of work are you really doing there?

Does it matter? You know, like, does it matter? That's what I know. I'm just kidding. Of course it does. But you actually makes me think of another point too. So there are a lot of realtors out there that also do property management. So I would make sure, because like you said, if you're a residential agent or you're a commercial agent, you're one or the other, usually not both, or you don't do both very well. I think the same holds true for real estate agents that are also property managers. You're one or the other and you're better at one or the other. You're not great at both. And it's real difficult to find a good property manager. It's easier to find a good realtor than a good property manager, if you can believe that.

Yes, well that's because a lot of times property managers, if they're not, if they're not good, it's not their full time bag, it's a part time thing and it's just part time activity to it. So they're not the most aggressive when it comes to evictions.

Right.

Sending out those five day notices or really targeting with people because they're busy running around doing other things versus showing up and knocking on the door and.

The third, like, hey, exactly, right, exactly, exactly. So I would probably separate out that out. If you're going to be looking to buy and hold, have a property manager separate from the realtor.

Yeah, it's definitely important. Now you're also licensed in Kentucky. Correct. So how is that market, How's Kentucky different from Ohio for you? Do you see a lot of differences when it comes to activity, price points and stuff like that?

Yeah. So in Kentucky it kind of depends on what you want. So a Kentucky buyer can get something better, closer to the city than you can in Ohio in Cincinnati, which is nice. It's a little bit Cheaper to live in Kentucky from a tax standpoint. And yeah, I mean, if you want like a new construction, like I have people all the time, they want to be in Ohio, but they want to be like close to the city. I'm like, we need to look at Kentucky because you can get a brand new house, a brand new build for a lot better and cheaper. And you'll have to go pretty far out in Cincinnati to get that right.

Well, that's good to know for the folks out there that are looking at. Because that area, I mean, that area's growing.

It is growing, like literally from my house, downtown Cincinnati, I can walk to. To Kentucky.

Very nice.

Yeah.

Do they have the banjos? State line.

You have to take your shoes off.

No offense, neighbor. Our Kentucky family listening out there, we like Kentucky. It's okay. We don't buy a lot of debt there because we got some weird stipulations when it comes to buying debt in Kentucky. They charge a. They want you to have a half a million dollar personal bond or a million dollar bond.

Wow.

Yeah. It's a bit of an extreme thing. It's one of the few states that requires that.

That's weird. But the other thing that I was thinking too is like, if you are going to buy and hold, knowing the eviction process, each county is different here in Cincinnati, and some counties are better than other. Like there are certain counties in Cincinnati, I will not buy property because their eviction proceedings are like they drag out so long. And then there are certain counties where it's like landlord friendly. And it's like once they don't pay, you get your house back, like in a minute.

What are the most counties that you like and the ones that you dislike?

I like Hamilton county and Warren county and then I dislike Clermont County.

Little corrupt. Like Crook county over in Chicago.

I don't think so. It's not corrupt. It's just like they're. I mean, I don't know, maybe it is. But like their rules are just different. Like they give the tenant like so long to stay and it's like they haven't paid. Like, I need my place back. It's ridiculous.

Yeah, I mean, we've seen it. I mean, we bought a lot of contract for deeds in Ohio. In Ohio, to evict on a contract for D can take a little while. It's almost like foreclosing six to nine months to do that. But. And it all comes down to, you know, the communication with the bar. Hey, what do you. You know, sometimes it's easier to Grease the wheels by giving them the check to walk away.

Exactly. It depends. But you make a good point, I think, like, if you're honest with yourself and you want to invest in real estate in some way, I mean, I've literally had this conversation at least four times in the last 10 days. It's like, I know you, and you are not somebody who's going to go knock on a door and be like, yo, you owe me money. And you're not going to pull the trigger on the eviction. And if, like, that is not you, you should not buy rentals like, you got to look at. And if you're not a type of person that can, like, fix anything or you don't have connections or you only plan on buying, like, one. Like, you've got to look at other vehicles, like, yeah, like notes or whatever. Something else.

Or landing passively through a fund or a hard money fund or stuff like that.

Something else where it's like, hands off. But that's all about being really honest with yourself. And like, what am I really gonna do?

Well, let's talk about those. Those bigger firms have realized that this is not what we should have been doing.

Exactly.

The Zillow, the Redfins or not, I don't think Redfin had too much, but a lot of the Ibuyers, Zillow being the biggest one. You know, 4. Was it $400 billion in contract cancellation stuff like that, or $565 million loss.

The loss that they're taking. And I wonder how they got in. Like, they just weren't paying attention, I guess. I don't know. Like, how do you get that much trouble?

Well, they overpay thinking that they're going to. They've got cheaper money. They overpay because they've got funding. But then I think the biggest thing is they did not expect the cost of rehab, the cost of materials to increase quite a bit. And I think they got hammered by delays with evictions and foreclosure moratoriums as well. In a lot of cases for, you know, getting the ball. I think they're buying retail. But when you're overpaying and then the market turns. Yeah, their numbers. Oh, it's going to keep going up. It's going to keep going up. And I think they saw it.

I mean, everybody knew they were overpaying. I mean, at least we did. Because every deal it was like, okay, you have this buyer or you have the ibuyer who's paying you more, and they say they're giving you cash like you should just take that. Like, why wouldn't you? But it's like, how are they keep doing that? Like, how can they keep overpaying for stuff you can't. That eventually falls and I would hate to lose $500 million, but the opportunity.

Of that comes in pretty well in. Are you seeing some of those back on the market?

Oh, yeah. And they're dropping their prices too.

Yeah. Well, it almost made me think it might be good to reach out to say, hey, we'll take these off your hands and help you avoid your loss. You just carry financing for a year. Carry financing and turn them. That also brings me to a point. Are you seeing a lot of. You may. May not. May not subject to deals are starting to get a lot more popular with people coming into the markets are getting out of houses that they got great interest rates but they've got to move or they can't afford the payments or going through in.

A lot of those come up recently, I think. Yeah, I haven't seen a lot of them. I did see more back in the day, but we're pretty conservative and people get nervous.

Right, right. Well, it's the thing. It's. It's a marketing play. You've got to look at if that's look at. But you got to have your disclosures. You got to have people everything.

Well, especially. Yeah, especially. I see a lot of investors to consider like getting their real estate license. I don't know. I mean, it depends on who you are, but I don't usually recommend it because then you have like so much extra disclosures and all these things. And I don't know. I don't know if it's worth it. The fees are pretty high to be a Realtor and you got your annual.

You got your duels do annual dues to the MLS and what other fees do you have involved with that?

You have local, state and national dues and it's just like, for what reason? So you can pull comps. Like that seems ridiculous. Why don't just be enough. Just be a Realtor's like assistant and get an assistant log in.

There you go.

I don't know if you're allowed to do that. Don't tell on me.

Is that. Are you offering that to folks out there in the Cincinnati area?

This is why you got to get in a relationship. Right. And you really think about it like, what is the purpose of getting the license? Like just so you can sell your own properties. That's also not a good idea. Right. Because you as an investor and me as a real estate agent, I have so many more properties than you representing a client. You should never represent yourself or your llc. You will not get the most amount of money for the property. You will end up giving stuff away or you'll do something wrong and you'll lose a bunch of money.

Yeah, well, it's good to have that arm's length transaction a little bit. Let somebody else. Absolutely. Takes the emotion out of it. A lot of cases.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

What do you invest in? I mean, you've got the background.

Hi. And hello, girl.

There you go. Okay. Is there a rent base that you look at with buy and hold like a floor? I've got a buddy in Columbus who says anything below $600 is like a two gun alley. You can make money at it, but you got to go two guns. Is there a red floor that you like to look at in Cincinnati that you won't even look at?

Yeah, and it's higher than that. So I like to rent to tenants that are like similar to me. Like normal people, like they've got good jobs, they understand how to, if there's a problem, they know how to communicate. They're reasonable people. Most of my tenants were like past clients or future clients. So I like that 1200-1700. They hardly give me any problems. It's perfect. Plus I like to travel. So if I'm in Asia, it's, you know, 12 hour difference there. Come in Asia, I don't want to have to be taken. And I manage my own properties. I don't have to be taking calls. So I get in there, I renovate them, I put somebody in there, they usually stay for a while and it's all gravy. Lower return than like the war zones. Right. But the head, my headache. I don't have a headache.

Yeah. Or risk getting shot at. You know, like I've been shot at before and walking through different properties.

You don't want to get shot at.

Yeah.

Well, I used to own a property management company and we managed over 180 rentals. 90% of them were like subsidized or low income. And it was just like such a nightmare. I mean, yeah, we could probably all write books, right. About the things that we've seen and heard and done and like whatever. Right. But yeah, I was like, I want to travel, I want it to be easy. I don't want a headache. I'm in it for the long haul. Let me just get my 6, 7% return and not have a headache. And Call it a day. And then we offered to the tenants on the back end, like, hey, if you purchase, if you end up buying a house and you use us as your realtors and they. I just have them use one of my partners. Use us as your realtors, then we won't worry about the actual end date of your lease contract. So that's worked out pretty good.

That's a very great clause to have in there. If you use this as an agent, that avoids you with that cringe when you find out your tenants are moving out because they bought a property.

Oh, my God, I'd be pissed. But I make them stay for at least six months. So you have to be in there at least six months and then what you can buy, but whatever.

Yeah, you've probably seen them stay a lot longer than a year, though. Especially a lot longer.

They are a lot longer. They say years and then they do use us. I've only had one person not use us and it was super weird, but he was weird, so whatever.

Everybody else, you said something there and I want to, I want to come back to it. You enjoying traveling? You've been to what, over 17, 18, 19 different countries out there, is that correct?

Went to 17 and one year.

Very nice.

Yeah. So I've been to a lot.

But you said something about how you found your lane. You really found what you like to do, what you focus on. I think that's so important and I think so many investors and people looking into real estate, they get the idea of being a jack of all trades. I'm going to do this, this, and this and this now. And you're never going to be a master of any of those. You've found your lane. You're happy with where you're at. You've got. You avoid the, I guess you could say the nightmares of the one off kind of craziness, huh?

Exactly, exactly. I mean, I was a lot more diversified in where my properties were, but now I'm like, you know, I know what to expect from this tenant base in these parts of town. Like, there's three parts of town that I like to work in. And like, I know how much the house has cost. I know what I'm getting. I know what the tenants are. It's a rinse and repeat and that's what we do. Like, this is what I can offer. You can either take it or not take it. I don't really care. And here we are. We move on.

Systemize your life and you'll be a lot happier versus.

If You're. Once you make enough mistakes, you'll be like, oh, yeah, I'm not going to deal with that again. I'm not going to deal with that again. Like, here's where I want to stay. But again, back to our point. In the beginning, if you're a brand new investor, like, you have got to make mistakes and make them fast and make them often and get them out of the way and then really learn and figure out what works for you, because you don't know what's going to work until you try it. Right.

Well, that brings a good point. Did you have a mentor when you're starting out? Somebody helped coach you? Just. You figured it out.

I'm more of a like, jump and then check to see if I even packed the parachute type person. Literally. When I was a little kid, I would make my mom go to all the open houses. Like we were in San Francisco. And I was like, mom, I pulled out the paper because this is like, you know, the 90s. You pull out the paper. I was like, mom, I want to go to these open houses. And she was like, you're such a weird little kid. And I was like, I love houses. I like revitalizing them, you know what I mean? And like fixing them and stuff. But I don't do that in my business because it's too much money and the return is not there for that type of stuff. So no, we just like kind of just tried it and did it. And I was like, oh, I don't like that. That doesn't work. Let's do something else. But my mom did help me, so she was like the processor of the short sales. And then we used her IRA to buy some of the first properties. So that was pretty exciting. I, you know, I messed up with her money.

Hey, mom, I'm taking care of paying you back on you. We're gonna use it.

Sorry, mom.

Sorry, Mom.

No, she's good now. I got her straight. Strained away.

Well, but that's, you know, it's great you have that. You've been an investor for what, how many years now? 15, 20. You've been a realtor for how long now?

No, I've been an investor for about almost 15. Yeah. And then a realtor for about 11.

Very nice, very nice. Have you been through a trend? Because we had the crazy trend there. And that's the thing. I always crack up as is. You want to work with somebody who's been through an up and a down market, not somebody who just signed up six weeks ago or has never been through a downtrend. I mean, we saw that happen here in Austin. We had like 12,000 realtors before the crash. And then after the crash, there was like 3,500.

Yeah, right. That's awesome. I wish we could cleanse again. Well, right. With the purge, right. I'm actually running. I'm creating a position called the Czarus of Real Estate of the World. So y' all can vote for me and I'll purge and we'll get. They'll have their own license, like the investor, only real estate agents. And then you know exactly who to go to.

That's actually not a bad idea. That would give NAR something to add as another do. Right?

Exactly. Well, we're getting rid of nar.

Well, but you get what I'm saying. The little initials to put in the back end of your thing in the investor qualified. I've actually.

Yeah, but not because you took like one class and they were like, here's how you work with investors they don't.

Know you actually closed on some deals. You got some HUDs to show some stuff. You got some deeds. Right.

And it's renewable every year. And if you don't close on deals annually, enough deals and you don't get the designation.

I love that. I think that should be a philosophy out there. Because there's enough. I hate to say this, douchepreneurs running around, you know, peddling stuff that they haven't closed on. No matter what it is. You know, it's something that they did two, three years ago, and we just don't see it. And enough people watch. And I only say this because that's what kind of got me rock and rolling was the HGTVs, the flip. This houses originally, back in the day.

I ban everybody that I work with from watching those shows while we're working together. They're so unrealistic. It's ridiculous. Like, it's not what happens.

Not at all what happens.

Nothing really happens. The contractors don't show up. It's 30% more than they said. Everybody's like, budget 10% more. No, budget 30% more. Like, they'll find stuff that they didn't see. You don't know what you're doing. And we can smell it. We can smell that. The second person out of your mouth. I know. If you know what you're doing.

Yeah. Well, here's the thing. Inspections, like subflooring. That doesn't pop up when people are walking around a lot of times or.

Right.

Other things, you know, that's just people and we're not trying to scare anybody by any means. The imagination, if you're interested. And make sure you to work with somebody who's a qualified expert, not a brand, not one who's got less experience than you do.

Right?

But find somebody out there.

But it is going to be hard on your first one, right? Because you have to earn the right and you have to earn the respect. So your first one, you're going to pay more. You're going to pay more in repairs, you're going to pay more to acquire the property. Like, you're just going to pay more because you haven't done anything. Nobody knows who you are. And then after that, then you can like. I mean, I've been working with my contractor for more than 10 years, so we, we understand each other. We, we know what we're doing. You just have to earn that. You're not just giving it.

Yep, exactly. Now, does he show up every time on time?

He does, yeah. He's the best.

That's a rarity. That's why you kept working for them for 10 years.

Look, you get, I always say you get two of the three things on contractors. You either get really good communication, you get really good work, or you get really good pricing. And the good communication is, like, showing up on time. So which of the three, like, do you want? Which of the two? You only get two of those three. That's it. So you gotta pick. And in the beginning you're paying, you're kissing some frogs.

But that's also why it's very important too. I think you're starting off. Make sure you surround yourself with folks, join a local real estate investment group, talk with people there who are rehabbing, talk with people that are actually doing the things that you're trying to do and pick their brains. I mean, I think most of the people that have been there.

But don't you think, though, like, before you pick their brains, like, really find out what have they actually done? What are you actually working on, like now, what did you actually do in the last year? And then pick their brain if they've done anything. Because a lot of people at a lot of these groups have a lot of theories and they've been to a.

Lot of classes, but they're not pulling the trigger. They're. They're like an educated brain surgeon who's never gone into surgery.

Right, exactly. Who would you rather have operating on you?

Somebody's done a lot of surgeries. Not somebody who's just book. Who's Going to pull out the book. Okay.

Exactly, exactly.

Good times. Jennifer, what's a goal you've set for yourself for the new year? I know 2022 has been, is just around the bend. 2021 has been an interesting year. 2020 was a crapshoot for a lot of people. What's a big goal?

I don't know. I mean I brought some, I bought some properties. So I've actually reached my goal for the amount of properties I wanted to acquire and the income from those properties. So I'm very excited about that. I just.

Congratulations.

Thank you very much. So I'm looking at diversifying my investments this year into like notes or REITs or angel investing or something like that. So that's a goal I'm working on this year. Like what else can I get into? I tried the, not Bitcoin, but I bought. What's the Ethereum? Yeah, bought Ethereum and I made 50% more in like three months. I was like, I'm pulling that shit out. I don't know anything about Bitcoin or Ethereum, but like, hey wait, that's good.

That's a good, that's like, that's like, that's like gambling in Vegas. The house usually wins in that. It's usually not the investors. A lot of cases, but that's that you brought up. You said something there. If you're going to invest in something, you should learn everything you can about what you're investing.

You should remember what I said. I don't ever do that. I just like try stuff. But I also know when to pull out. Right. And I'm like, this seems pretty high. I don't know anything about it, but a 50% return on my money in three months makes me very happy. So I'm just going to pull my money out and call it a day. Now it did go up, right. But if it would have went down, I would have been like kicking myself to be like, just pull your money.

Out and go, yeah. Somewhere Kenny Rogers is singing a song. You got to know when, exactly when to fold them. Exactly, exactly when to walk away and know when to run.

But yeah, I'm happy with 50% return. I'll take that every day.

And then on your, on the properties that you bought that you said that you're convert, you're fixing these up and turning them into rentals. Long term rentals for cash flow. The most part.

They're all rentals. Yeah. So I like that. I will eventually get into. I've done some owner financing so stuff and I do like doing that. And so I'll probably get into like some of that stuff. More of like the hard money side of it where it's like, okay, yeah, like we talked about, like, I'll lend to you if you can't get a loan, but a specific population, not like anybody, you know.

Right. So you're gonna, you're, Are you saying you're gonna be profiling people? Is that what you just said?

Yeah, exactly, exactly.

Probably more so on the short term, hard money side of things with a higher return there for you and in and out of projects probably for a little bit.

Right, that makes sense. Yeah. Profiling them financially.

There you go. Well, that's what lenders do. That's what we should be doing. Exactly.

Like, here's what I want. Can you do.

Exactly. Now Jennifer, do you mind people that are knowledgeable and actually know what the hell they're doing to reach out to you to ask for advice, ask for.

That's fine. I really don't mind. I know I sound kind of mean, but I'm just honest.

Honesty is not mean. People say that all the time. Like Scott, you're mean. I'm like, I'm telling them what they need to hear. I'm not going to sugarcoat it and blow. I'm not going to waste their time or waste my time. You know what I mean?

Yeah, right. It's not, it doesn't help anybody. Right. But yeah, I'm happy to help any in Cincinnati, in Northern Kentucky or depending on what you want to do, I can direct you to the right people. The best way is you can just call or text me, which is 513-400-1691.

Perfect. And then they can also contact you by going to jennifermertlen.com with all your social there too. Correct.

Yeah, everything is there. I'm pretty easy to find.

Yeah.

Not trying to hide from you.

No, she's not. And it's a beautiful thing. And then also guys and gals, check out the real estate fight club. It's a hilarious thing. And you have your co host with that as well too. That's on there quite a bit with you, right?

Yeah, my co host is Monica Weekly. It's her birthday today.

Oh, well, happy birthday, Monica.

Happy birthday, Monica. Yeah, so that's a pretty fun. It's for real estate agents and it's, it's pretty funny.

Yeah, I was listening a couple episodes this week. It's cracking up on stuff like that. But that's, I mean that's a great Thing. I don't think a lot of real estate agents understand the power of that branding side of things and helping investors or buyers get to know their agent with a podcast. I mean, I hate to say this, but we often find Realtors are cheap and when it comes to marketing themselves because they're broke most of the time, they understand the investment marketing. Right.

The average agent makes like 40,000 a year. Can you believe that? I'm like, what the hell are you doing? Yeah, they're selling like five houses. Like, what are you doing in a year? Can you imagine if you only did your job five times a year? Don't use that Realtor.

No, no. Even if it's your spouse, don't use your spouse.

Definitely don't use your spouse if you are a real estate agent. We actually looking to partner with more agents and we can help them like grow their business and all that. So reach out too.

Very good stuff there, everybody. Jennifermertland.com or reach out to her phone number. We'll have that below in the comments and the description there for you out there. Well, Jennifer, it has been a pleasure talking with you today. Look forward to sending some business your way. Definitely. Because it's one of the markets we're focused on. And look forward to your continued growth in the new year already.

Yeah, let's do it. Thanks, Scott.

Thanks, Jennifer. All right, everybody. Hey, that's going to wrap it up for this episode of the no Closer show. If Cincinnati, Northern Kentucky is a market you're investing in, you need somebody who's solid and you're going to treat them with respect like you want to be treated. Reach out to Jennifer and talk to her. Otherwise, connect with her online and make sure you hit the subscribe button to our episodes and hit that five star review as well. And check out her podcast too. Go out, take some extra money and we'll see you at the top, everybody. Bye.