From Fix & Flip to Note King: Releasing Your Investment Strategy - SCOTT CARSON ON INVESTOR ARMY PODCAST

All right, guys, welcome back to the podcast. We just got off the boat and I met an incredibly amazing individual. Scott Carson's on the show today. He runs we close notes. He knows more than anybody I know probably about non performing notes. In the non performing notes section of the business, we're gonna talk about how most investors are moving towards this new trend of buying notes, performing and non performing, and getting away from rentals. Scott, how you doing? Welcome to the show.

Hey, man. Glad to have, Glad to be here. You know, it's nice that the, the, the boat's not rocking.

I mean, it's like two days out and I still think I'm rocking a little bit. I got, I got up this morning. I was still kind of, you know, unbalanced here. I don't know what's going on, but I want to talk about what you talked about on the ship. First of all, you gave an amazing speech. I think you have an incredible talent as a public speaker. I think everybody would be proud to kind of follow in your footsteps. But let's go in and talk about the note section specific, specifically non performing notes, because this is something that it's kind of unique and it's kind of a niche that most people really don't even know how to get into. And so they need an expert like you to help them. So let's kind of talk about that a little bit.

So that's a great, great point. I was. Austin, Texas, is home. So how I got into the notes space first is I was living in Austin, started a mortgage company with a couple buddies of mine. And then, of course, everything went south in 2008, 2009, and fortunately, I'd met a couple real estate investors that will travel, traveling country, teaching owner financing and distress notes as a little like a sub niche. Well, then when everything went south, I stepped away from the mortgage company and I started implementing what I had learned from them in theory about buying distressed debt. So I started calling banks and asset managers and started getting lists and tapes sent to me when nobody else was knocking on the door. Now why did I do that when I was living in Austin, which was a very hot market? Well, like I'm sure you know, in Dallas that we've talked about before, there's a lot of markets out there that really are just swamped. It's hard to do a lot of things to find good deals. And Austin's a much smaller market than Dallas, Fort Worth, or other places across the country. So I decided instead of fighting the crowds, I would go where There was no crowd and start buying distressed debt. And so I started getting all these lists sent to me from banks and hedge funds and was able to cherry pick and see in assets six to 12 months ahead of the rest of the competition. I wasn't having to mail out postcards or yellow letters or door knocking. The pricing was a lot better. You know, back then it was, you know, 10 cents on the dollar or less a lot of times and now it's still about 50 cents on the dollar of value. I know the biggest complaint is I didn't buy more back then, you know, but yeah, I love the distressed note space. Better pricing. Got a lot of ton of deals that nobody else is seeing and a lot of exit strategies with the debt that we buy and gives us a lot of flexibility on what we do with that asset and also makes for some really great returns.

Okay, so we got a wide range of listeners on here. Let's kind of quickly talk about performing versus non performing and then this goes specifically into non performing, how you can fund them. I know you like to buy them in bulk. Is, is this something that an average investor can transition to very easily? I know you can help them do this and we'll talk about your company there. But let's talk about just for the new investor on here, what's a performing and non performing note? And then we'll talk about why non performing notes are such a valuable strategy to go after.

Great, great question. So if you're paying your mortgage on time, and that's what we buy is we buy mortgage debt, you're a performing note. If you paid on time like many people have, you know, 90% of Americans are paying on time. That's a performing note. Nothing wrong with that. Banks and asset managers will sell performing debt somewhere between 8 and an 8 yield and 15% yield. So it's not a bad, if you like passive income, just want to buy something and have it returned to you on a monthly basis. Great, great investment. Now we focus on the non performing. That's if you have not been paying. We know that a good chunk of Americans, actually precisely about four and a half percent of total Americans are in default on their mortgages. That means if you're not paying and you continue to keep non paying, the bank or the hedge fund wants to move that asset off their books and they're willing to sell what is owed at a substantial discount the further you go into default. So if you're only like one month late, the bank might sell that note off at 90, 95% of what's owed. But if you get like six months or a year in default, like a lot of Americans have been, they'll sell that debt at 30, 40, 50 cents of what's owed. And I'll buy that as long as the property value makes sense. Because ultimately that loan is tied to a property, and that property still has some underlying value to it. And that's what makes for a really good investment. Because if I can pick up a property by buying the debt at 50 cents of value, the property, that gives me so much more flexibility to reach out to the homeowner. Because, let's face it, bad things happen to good people all the time. They may have been laid off and sick, had a death in the family, gone through the big D. And I don't mean Dallas. So. And our major goal is not to foreclose on these bars. Our biggest goal is try to get them reinstated and get back on their feet. Because if they're, let's say their mortgage is at 6% interest rate and we bought it at $0.50 what it was owed, if we can get them reinstated, That's a quick 12% return on investment to us. Real, real quick for us.

Yep. So that's. So that's probably the most common question I get asked is why would someone, you know. You know, to a new investor, it just seems crazy to go buy a note that's not performing. It seems like that would be the dumbest thing to do. But because you can get them at such a discount, you can either get them restabilized or basically take the property back and then go forward with it. So what is your main exit strategy? If you do take them back? You just resell them on owner finance, or you rent them out, or you just sell them?

I just sell them. I mean, if we do have to foreclose, we've done all the heavy lifting. It just makes good sense for us right now because if we're buying it at 40, 50 cents of the dollar, it just makes more sense for us to cap that 40 to 50% equity. And then I like to say call it the double down. We bought one note, foreclosed on it, sold it off, sold the property off. Now we have capital to go buy two notes, and those two notes lead to four notes, and those four notes lead to eight notes or 16. But our biggest goal is not to foreclose. It's literally there's more money in getting the borrower to reinstate and start paying on time. For us, it's a better return on investment.

Okay, okay. So I know what people are thinking, that's a great idea. But how am I going to fund these? Where are you getting the money? How are you going to have the money to go acquire these notes in bulk like you're doing, and I know that y' all are probably doing them all, all around the country and go on using a specific strategy which we'll talk about. But what's the best way for a new investor to fund these? Because you're going to need to raise a lot of money to do this type of strategy.

Well, I'm glad you brought that up because it used to be when I first started you really needed to have somewhere between 2 to 5 million to get your feet wet. And that's not the case anymore. We've been very lucky. The last 10 years the secondary market or shadow market has popped up and banks and hedge funds are desperate to move stuff off their books. So we use opm, other people's money. We use a variety of self directed IRA funds. You know, we've, we've got a deal closing today that an investor request IRA with somebody with U Direct Equity Trust. You know, we use a lot of self directed IRA money to fund these deals on a one off basis. Now people also use cash, they use, you know, they've got a line of credit somewhere they'll use that. You're not going to go to a bank to get a loan on a defaulted note and you're not going to get a hard money lender to lend it money on to you as well. Now they'll be glad to fund the property after you do the foreclosure but that doesn't help you on the acquisition side. So we've closed many deals where it was a one individual note we liked from a tape, you know, and then we've also, we've got the point now we're closing on average 30 to 60. Just depends on the bank or the fund that we're buying these from. On basically every quarter we're closing on a chunk at a time and of course using other people's money and raising cash capital on a regular basis to take this pools down.

Okay, so when you say you're working with banks, you're working with like smaller banks, credit unions or are you working with the big banks to do this?

Good question. I'm glad you brought that up. I'm so glad you brought that up because I get people call me all day, hey, I got a mortgage with bank of America. Can you buy the note or with Chase or Citi or Wells Fargo. So big, big, big disclaimer. And I don't know if you can throw like big fancy things on the YouTube video. You're not gonna buy a one off note from the big, you know, big ten banks. They're just, it's not worth their time. They don't know who inside is going to handle that half the time either. Especially if it's like the evil Empire bank of America. But yeah, we buy mostly from regional banks. We have bought a lot of commercial notes from Capital One. We have bought some commercial notes from Wells Fargo. But for the most part it's regional banks that are lending in 2, 3, 4, 5 states or different parts of the country. We buy a lot in the Rust Belt states or as I like to say, the, like the Big Ten Southeast Conference parts of the United States because that's where the most amount of defaulted debt is right now.

Yep. So this is not a space that I'm in. I'm interested in it, but you know, I assume it's more kind of like the commercial side of the apartments where you're going to have to kind of, you know, build some credibility. You can't probably just contact one of these banks and jump in. They're like, sure, here, take a look at everything we got. It kind of takes some, you know, over time building a relationship with them. Right. They want to know you're going to close because this is a big amount of money and a lot of effort and due diligence that goes into it. They want to make sure that who they're selling to is going to close. Right.

You would think that. That's not always the case though. We had a student, ours just close on six notes individually from a bank in Illinois and the bank actually ended up financing the mezzanine loan to her, which is weird. It was a rarity on a commercial piece of property. But first time note investor, no experience in it. She raised capital from her local RIA club and took down these assets at like literally 25% of value. And the bank actually threw in four empty lots next door. They just wanted off their books. So it was a great, great thing. Yes, it's good to have expertise, but when it comes down to it, the bank and the asset managers, they don't care where the money comes from as long as it is coming from somebody. You don't have to proof up. You don't need to season the funds like you with a traditional closing a lot of times or traditional loan as long as you can close. They don't care whether it's one note or 100 notes. And as long as you have like the vendors like a servicing company or foreclosure turning so you have that as your kind of your team behind you. That adds a lot of credibility because you know, we all got to start somewhere. Whether it's buying our first fix and flip or first wholesale deal or first note deal, it's all about getting out there, making offers and then just taking action.

Okay, so how, how I guess you could say these banks, right? Are they letting you trade pick these properties or do they want you to buy them all? Because obviously they don't want you just pulling the best ones out and then leaving the crap because then how are they going to get rid of them, right? So they want to try to lump them together, but how hard is it to separate those? And everybody wants to know, can you kind of trade pick these out?

So that's a great question. So a lot of times the banks will send out lists on a quarterly or monthly basis and there's, there's some good, there's some bad, and there's some downright ugly in it. Most banks or hedge funds, you know they're going to price the good stuff higher than they would the mid level or specifically the low stuff. So I always, when I make an offering, I try to take some of the crap at the bottom. And my goal is the bank is probably giving that a zero value. So if they're making 500 bucks or 1000 bucks in that low level fertilizer as we like to say, they're happy. But it also lowers my cost on the good stuff. So then I can write off that 500 bucks or $1,000 in asset and not worry about it or I'll owner finance a lot or an ugly piece of property to a next door neighbor or donate it to the city or donate it the veterans path or something like that, a different charity that's looking for, or I'll sell it to somebody who wants to build a spec home on it and carry that financing. So the beauty is the banks are they're over leveraged and for every dollar they have, and they've lended out 10 to 15 times. So for every dollar of defaulted debt that they have out there dragging down their portfolio, they can't lend it out. So if they can get 10 cents or 50 cents on the dollar right now, they can make up what they've lost over the last six to 12 months pretty relatively quickly.

Okay, so being an expert in this field. What do you think is, are these banks holding a bunch of shadow inventory? Are they sitting on a bunch right now that we don't even know about and they're just kind of trying to drip it out or what's kind of what's going on behind the scenes?

Good question. In 2015, we were, sorry, 2009 we had over 15 million homes that were in default. And over the last. I know that's crazy. Over the last seven, eight years that number is reduced down to roughly about 6 million in shadow inventory that's still sitting out there. Now. There's also another 2 to 3 million in modified loans that went through the home affordability modification program, the HAMP loan program that are starting to default as well. So you still have somewhere around 6 to 9 million in defaulted loans sitting on these banks books. And they're slowly dripping it out. They're slowly dripping it out. They focus on the higher valued assets first. First, because that helps them with their books. They don't care really so much about the $75,000 valued houses or less. But that's honestly where we make the most amount of money is in the lower valued 100, $150,000 or less. Because that's your first time home buyers. Those are great rental properties. Those are just really great deals that you can wholesale, you know, put some paint and carpet into them and turn them into a really good cash flow.

Yep. So how do you get to these lists? Like who do you contact the bank that you said, the asset manager or what's the best process to go through to kind of get on these lists?

That's a great question by the way as well. Too many of the questions and we have not even rehearsed this. You're not going to call, you're not going to walk into your local bank. Let's talk about the don'ts first. You're not going to walk in your local bank. You're not going to call customer service and say, hey, I want to buy your loans. There's a department inside the bank known as your special assets department or your secondary marketing department. Okay, I'll state that again. Secondary marketing or special asset department. These are the departments inside the banks that may be in a different building, a different state. A majority of them are either on the east coast or on the west coast. These are the guys inside the departments that are looking at the bank's portfolio and also looking at what they're originating to see how that portfolio works out. And so you, if you're going to call, call the main corporate office or you can use, there's a couple of software or websites you can use like Distress Pro or Lane Guide. L A N E G I D E Lane Guide is pretty inexpensive, like 150 bucks a year that you can go to and do searches for these internal departments and then call those people. Or you could just go over to LinkedIn and type in special assets or secondary marketing and it'll give you hundreds of or thousands of these guys that work at different banks out there that you can reach out to on a regular basis.

Okay, so that's what we do. Okay, cool. Appreciate you sharing that. So let's see. So how would you go about making offer on these? So you go and throw a letter intent or do you just make, you know, I mean it seems like a lot to go through and make an offer individually. You're just probably making a bulk offer or it depends.

Depends on what the bank wants. Sometimes the banks want to move a whole portfolio. Then it is kind of like a letter of intent. A lot of times with hedge funds they'll send you a spreadsheet if you've signed a non disclosure agreement with them. And then literally, it's just literally adding a column on that spreadsheet saying okay, I'll offer you five grand for this one, eight grand. That's called loan level pricing. So they'll, you know, we may get, I'll give an example. We got a tape in a 450 assets Friday. Last Friday my staff had narrowed that down to 100. We submitted 100 offers in this morning out of the 400, just by getting rid of the stuff that we don't want to bid on. Out of that 100 we'll probably get 40 or 50 accepted or countered. And we'll just dive in a little bit more on the due diligence side to see if it makes sense for us to buy them at those prices or counter back less what we see in taxes, conditions and things like that.

Okay, so I guess a lot of people's big concern is, you know, you're buying them all around the country that if you do have to take them back. How are y' all arranging getting these houses fixed up? You know, how are you stabilizing them? The foreclosure laws are different in every state. So there's a lot to go with this. Are you focusing on certain states over others because of this reason or just kind of going where, where you can get them all?

Great questions. So a couple big things that you need to know is you need to have a servicing company that's going to handle a lot of the borrower outreach and that's important. And you want your servicer to be licensed in the states that you're buying these loans in. And that's important because you don't want the Consumer Finance Protection Bureau or some attorney suing you for, you know, being overly aggressive on the debt collection. So we don't service any of our own loans. It's all handled through a servicer. And yes, you need a different attorney who's licensed that state to foreclose on your assets. If you buy in one state, you only need one attorney. If you're buying in five states, you need, you know, at least an attorney that's licensed in those five states to take things down. And they handle most of the heavy lifting. They both are vendors and our vendors will report back to us on what you know, they've gotten from the borrower as the borrower hired counsel or are they willing to do a deed in lieu. And there's a lot of negotiations go back and forth. Once we take the property back, either through foreclosure, cash or keys, then we do like any real estate investor would do. We reach out to the local real estate investment clubs and we're looking for people there locally, we're looking for rehab crews. We talk with our realtors, we go to realtor.com and the local meetup groups as well to find realtors who understand working with investors. And we have these teams in place all across the country that will go in and do a clean out. Like we had two properties cleaned out last week, one in Illinois, one in Ohio and actually a third one in Michigan. All cleaned out. They're ready to be listed right now. And so then the realtor is just going to list those things and get them moved. We don't do a lot of heavy rehabs on the properties because it's not an effective use of our time unless it's going to be at a lot of value. It's mostly just paint and carpet for the most part. Replace a water heater and air conditioner if we have to and just try to get it sold. Because since we bought it so cheap at 30, 40, 50 cents on the dollar in today's crazy market, people looking for reos, we can move that thing at 80, 85. Since other dollar renters, we'll do all the heavy lifting and go from there.

So what is your thoughts on the upcoming? I mean, we were just on this Cruise. We had a lot of great speakers. A lot of different, you know, mindset, I guess you could say on what's coming forward with the. The market. Right. What happens if we roll over in 2019? Do we have a crash? Does it stay going to 2025? Nobody really knows. For your section of the business, what does that mean? What would happen if, if the market starts crashing? Is that something you're wanting to happen or is that something that's going to be doomsday for you?

So I'm a big believer that the market is going to cr. But when that does, that means more money for me because it means more defaulted debt. I should have brought one of these and given you. I'm have to ship you one of that noisemaker here. Connor.

That's nice. I like it.

I definitely. Yeah, I must. We're already starting to see corrections in the higher price markets like Miami, Aspen, where days in market are going beyond what they should be and so people are having to reduce the real estate. You're going to see that also in other areas of the country. Prices are just starting to come down. You're going to see more default rates. You know we have other things that people are borrowing against. Credit card debts at all time, high student loan debts at a high default rate. You know, they talk about the used cars loan, car loans being in huge default rates. That all is going to affect the ability for a borrower to make a payment on their house. If those things go sideways, which they will, we can't keep going up like we've been doing. It's got to correct at some point. It's going to do next six to 18 months. Um, we're prepping to do a lot of capital raising between now we've been doing that for last year so that when the market does correct itself, we can buy even more than we did 10 years ago.

Yeah, guys, so you heard of hoard your cash and I've been talking about this for a little bit. You know, we stopped closing on houses over 250 grand that are really the ones that if we can't finance out in cash flow, we don't want to. We don't want to close on these houses because I flipped a really nice house in Frisco which is super hot market and we didn't have a single showing for 18 days. And this was a very nice house. And there's nine price reductions in the subdivision. So we kind of pulled off the high end rehabs and are only focusing on that, you know, 150 to 200 or lower price range. So I mean it's just hard to tell what's really going to come. But I think you're right with that. So with our, our listeners all around the country, what could they help you with? Are you needing help in these are states? Can they send you leads or is there anything they can do to kind of work with you?

I don't, I won't ask for leads because then we'll get bombarded with all sorts of things. Yeah, we don't buy owner finance notes. It's one thing we don't buy. We just buy institutional debt because it's cleaner paper. So that's one big caveat. If they're interested in finding assets in their areas, they always can go to our website, weclosenotes.com and there's a place for them to register and to buy notes and they tell us what their top three markets is. And as we see things, we can send stuff out to them there. You know, we are such a, we, you know, we buy so much stuff, we're closing on hundreds of deals a year. Yeah, it's always nice to have eyes on the ear or eyes on the ground that we can go out and take a look at a property and give us a condition for stuff like that for you. So if you're interested or you've got some money sitting on the sideline, you know, lazy assets that you need to put to work, we're always glad to help, you know, invest that for you and go from there. But for the most part, hey, you know, notes are a whole different animal. It's a whole different mindset than you're fixing, flipping your wholesale, stuff like that. So I always tell people, get educated, learn as much as you can about the default market, whether it's online or, or going to a workshop or things like that. And we do have an education platform, what we do, but we've got hundreds and hundreds. I think we went over the 1100 video mark on our, our YouTube video pages recently. So you can always get your videos at we close Notes TV as well and you know, learn. That's the only way I have gotten to where I've been today is learning, you know, on different things. And in today's society. I love what you're doing with the investor army. Such a great badass thing you're doing, Connor, being, providing a lot of education. That's a great thing. It's such a, such a great thing to learn, educate yourself. But also an important thing is think outside the box. There's a variety of ways to make things happen and be flexible on your strategy. That's the one of the biggest lessons I learned early on coming from the Fix and flip side. I wanted to take the every property back when I was buying notes and I left a lot of money sitting on the table. I had people that wanted to reinstate or modify and I didn't want to do that. And so it tied up a lot of money, a lot longer than I should have. So the biggest thing I can tell you if you're coming from the fix and flip side you like the idea of notes is to leave the fix and flip strategy at the door and, and change it to becoming a lien lord and not a landlord.

So, guys, you clearly can't take over the world listening to 30 minute podcasts on. On Notes. Let's talk about. We closed Notes here for a second because a lot of people are going to get interested when they hear this. You know, obviously it's an exciting topic. Let's talk about what you can do for people and your company here a little bit. And also maybe let's talk about social media because you gave a great speech on the boat talking about the power of video and, and like you said, guys, he's got a YouTube channel out there. Go check it out. And we're gonna get, we're going to talk about this podcast here in just a second. But something about your company. We Close the Notes and how you're educating students across the country to kind of replicate what you're doing.

So I always promised, made a promise myself that if I got ahead of the game and started doing well, that I always help people make things happen. And that's what We Close Notes is all about. We actually, we don't just talk about doing deals and don't do it. We actually go, go out and close deals. And we're excited. We, we host regular workshops online, live virtual workshops of people from all over the globe actually tune in for, you know, for our three day virtual workshops, we go through the nuts and bolts, how to find, fund and flip these deals that we see, how to go out and find them, how to have capital raise for them and all the different exit strategies and how to market them. So we've got a big goal over the next five years of helping to create and educate 10,000 note investors. It's a big goal. I know. We hit it. Holy cow.

I think you can do it.

We had over 2,000 students in 2017. I try to make things flexible for people. Because it's not always easy for people to jump on a plane, fly or drive cross country to a workshop and then spend all that money for things there. So that's why we started doing virtual workshops or online workshops about two years ago. It's cheaper for us. It allows for us to make our education a lot cheaper than others, but provide a lot of true content without the, you know, blowing smoke up your skirt or anything like that.

No, I think that's a really good idea. I mean, think about. It's hard to get someone to take the energy to get out of there, you know, get in their car and drive out to an event, especially when it's halfway across the country. So you can find those on your website.

Yeah, just go to weaklosenness.com and you'll see the training tab or virtual workshops. Our next one's not until March. We just had one in December. We do them four times a year. We'll have, you know, 300 people in them. It's fully interactive. The biggest thing that people are like, well, I love the networking. Hey, we've got plenty of networking opportunities. And one thing that we do a little bit differently, we literally give everybody the registration list of everybody there. So it gives you an opportunity to network with people after the event.

Okay, great. That's awesome. Awesome. Guys, go check that out now. Let's talk quickly while we got you here for just a couple more minutes on social media and social media marketing. I know you're real big into this. I'm impressed with what you're doing. I think you're moving down the right path here. And most people are just way late to get into this. Right. And it's still on the front edge of the trend. Right. So look at how content's changed over the years or how. How content's been delivered. It used to be word of mouth, Then we learned how to read and write, then pony express, horseback delivering letters, then the radio, television, personal computers. Now here we are on the social media world, and especially in the older generation. I see this all the time because a lot of people coming to you or to me for help with real estate. Well, and they're usually in the older generation. They're scared of it, they don't want to learn it, but they're leaving a huge opportunity on the table.

So you have to look at. I think I said something at the. On the cruise that, hey, if you're going to be planning on being in real estate or any type of entrepreneurship over the next 10 years, 100% people raise their hands, right? We want to be doing what we want to do. The only way you're going to still be able to, you know, get any bit of market share and whatever you're doing or making money is to realize that today's TV is not that big box that you adjust with the antenna. Today's TV is your smartphone. It's the phone that you're on and being able to communicate and network with people and going from there. So embracing that is one of the biggest things that you have to do. I mean, we've got students that are 85, 90 who've opened Facebook accounts, are raising capital off it. So if they can do it, anybody can do it. And it's. There's. If you look at Starbucks or McDonald's or any of these big Fortune 100 companies that are embracing, you know, Facebook and Instagram and YouTube and things like that, those are the same tools that we all have available at our fingertips for free. You know, they're using the things to make things happen, to connect with their ideal database, connect with their clients or potential money partners or guild flow. You're really a caveman if you can't see that and realize, hey, just take the time. You're not going to be good at it. We have a saying here around the office called embrace the suck. Because everybody's going to suck at it at first, but you get better at it and fail for get a little better each day, a little better each day at honing your craft. That's why I'm good at where I'm at now. Because 10 years ago I started doing videos when nobody else was doing videos on stuff and just realize you do a great job. I love what you're doing with all the videos and stuff like that as well. That's why we instantly, you know, we're like, hey, we got. We gotta talk. I think we're the rarity out there. But you have to realize you don't have to be the greatest at what you do. Just provide content and people will value and respect you and you become your own authority on things.

Well, obscurity is the biggest enemy, right? So people need to. Nobody knows what you're doing, especially if you want to be. We talk a lot about, you know, co wholesaling and nobody's going to bring a deal to you if they don't know you have a big buyer's list and you can sell it for you. So it's just like you said, guys. It's now ABC, CNN, MSNBC, but it's turning to be YouTube, Instagram, Twitter. You know, this is the way the world's moving. You just have to get, get up with pace here, catch up a little bit.

Look at YouTube Live. That's a game changer that's going to affect everything. Netflix, Amazon, you look at those, those companies providing content. Disney's going to be doing their own live streaming. You know, they just bought Fox as well. Look, the whole goal is to be online and be in video and share it. Share your wins, your losses and it's okay to be yourself. Don't try to be anybody else.

Yeah, I mean you can go start your own television channel, you can start your own radio channel, shoot your own podcast for relatively no cost when it looks, when it's compared to the old way of doing things. I mean, having your own TV show, right? You've got top down control, you have censorship. I mean, think about all the headaches that goes, goes with having your own television show where you can start your own podcast or your own YouTube channel and literally do what you want, when you want. And as long as people like your message, they're going to start following you and you can convert those into money lenders, JV partners. I mean there's just so much value to it. Scott, awesome to have you on here. Love your energy, love what you're doing. And guys, reach out to him, make sure you go over his YouTube channel. Subscribe to that. What's the name of your podcast?

Just the Note Closers. Show the note or you know, hashtag Note Closers podcast. We're on itunes, Stitcher, all those good things and yeah, rock and roll along on that.

Awesome, awesome. Guys, go over there and leave a five star review. That's going to help him out and I'm pretty sure you're going to learn a lot of good information, especially in the note business. So there's not much, there's not many people out there really talking about it. That's why right now he's kind of taking over the space. So go check him out. Scott, appreciate you coming on here guys and we'll see you on the next episode.

Thanks man. Glad to be here.