How to Get Started Buying Notes - Flip Nerd Podcast

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Hey, it's Mike Hambright with Flipner.com welcome back for another exciting expert interview where I interview successful real estate investing experts and entrepreneurs in our industry to help you learn and grow. Today I'm joined by Scott Carson, aka the Note Guy. Scott is the president of WeClosenotes.com, a defaulted note buying company. In addition to buying notes for his own portfolio, Scott teaches others how to get started in note buying. And for those of you that aren't involved, like myself, I've bought hundreds of houses but never bought a single note. The note world is very fascinating. There's a lot of opportunity there that a lot of people just aren't quite aware that it exists yet or think it's a little complicated, so they stay away. And while it's different, there are a lot of advantages over actually buying physical houses or properties. Today we're going to talk just about that. Exactly. So how to get started is in note Buying with Scott Carson, the Note Guy. Before we get started though, let's take a moment to recognize our featured sponsors. Realtymogul.com is an online marketplace for real estate investing connecting borrowers and capital from accredited and institutional investors. Get a rehab loan fast and close in as little as 10 days with rates starting as low as 9%. For more information, call 888-296-1697. B2R Finance makes loans tailored specifically for rental investors. They can help you unlock equity from existing properties so you can get cash to grow your rental portfolio. That's huge and it opens up lots of opportunities previously not available to rental investors.

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Call 855-819-4412 or visit b2rfinance.com today. National Real Estate Insurance Group is the nation's leading provider of insurance to the residential real estate investor market. From individual properties to large scale investors, National Real Estate Insurance Group is ready to serve you. We'd also like to thank Crestar Funding, Mid Atlantic IRA and Renters Warehouse. Please note the views and opinions expressed by the individuals in this program do not necessarily reflect those of flipnerd.com or any of its partners, advertisers or affiliates. Please please consult professionals before making any investment or tax decisions as real estate investing can be risky. Hey Scott, welcome to the show.

Hey Mike, glad to be here. Thanks for having me, man.

Yeah, yeah. So it's interesting. I feel like I've been, you know, out there in the real estate investing world for a number of years and it seems like note buying is becoming more and more Popular. So I'm excited to talk about it today. I know it's been around forever, but it's. It seems like it's just becoming kind of more mainstream over the last couple years.

Well, that's the true. I mean, note bind's always been around. Banks have always bought and sold notes back and forth to each other. If you think Back to the RTC days back in the 80s, note buying was big then because you had all these banks and savings and loan that went out of business. And so we've had that kind of happen. Well, replicate itself in 2008, 2009, when everything hit the fan with all the new banks going out of business. So it's kind of reappeared in mainstream aspect of it. What's also helped, Mike, is the fact that a lot of investors are starting to go in and out buying looking for deals. Because the fact that you have the REO markets getting bid up in the 90% range, the short sales are drying up, the banks are taking a bigger discount. Real investors don't want to do fix and flips. For the most part, they'd rather become the bank. That's what I love about note buying. We become the bank. We come upstream from all the REO buyers. We're seeing deals six to 12 months before your traditional investors are seeing stuff. And then we're also getting a lot bigger discounts on the assets. So it's kind of a perfect storm. Plus, the fact is entry level has changed so much. I mean, back, you know, what we doing, what we're doing today, buying one off assets. And a lot of investors buying these one off deals didn't exist six years ago.

Right, right.

It just didn't. You used to have to have five to $10 million to get in the ball game, but now these days, one of my students bought their first note for 2,500 bucks the other day.

Yeah.

You know, and they're rocking and rolling along on it. So it's a great time to become the bank is what I can say.

That's awesome. That's awesome. Hey, before we kind of dive into talking more about notes, why don't you kind of tell us your background, how you got started in this space.

No problem, man. Graduated from college. Central Texas is home. Austin actually is home. Went to school here, graduated, became a financial advisor a little bit after college, was doing that stuff. And then a buddy of mine opened a mortgage company with a couple guys that were teaching owner finance notes and traveling the country, teaching that on the circuit. And I went in and Started working with him on the mortgage side. So I was a broke broker, I guess you could say, for a couple years. And then the boom hit with all the mortgages and the refinance boom. And so really was doing well. I mean, we're doing mortgages in 30 plus states. And I was always interested, listening to the investors that I was in the office next to about their creative deal structuring. And they were doing a lot of owner finance wraparound mortgages. You know, create a mortgage, sell it off at the closing table and keep stuff for cash. They'll get a down payment, make money on it. And so I love that aspect. Now I'd also been dabbling in real estate on the side doing okay, but I was like a lot of other investors out there doing 20 different things at a time. A jack of all trades and master of none, I guess you could say. And then as everything started to change in 0708 09, I saw the writing on the wall. I mean, I was like, okay, I need to quit doing the mortgage stuff. I mean, yes, we were still making decent money, but it wasn't like what it used to be. And I just saw an opportunity and I had an investor in mine that I was meeting with to finance a rehab. And he started talking about how he picked up this portfolio of notes. And I was like, really? The investor that had been working with, he talked a little about it in theory, but it was based off him doing owner finance notes. And I was talking to my investor buddy and he was finding the deal for me. He was going a little bit more in depth. I said, well, I can do that. He goes, man, this is the best time to do it. He goes, this is exactly like it was 20 years ago. And so I was like, okay. And so literally within the next three months, I stopped my mortgage. I left the mortgage company, stopped doing all the short sales and things that we were doing on the side, and focused purely on notes and literally just started dialing for dollars. I started calling banks and figuring my way out, who I needed to talk to, what I need to say. And in the next, in the next three months, I became direct about five banks. Six months after that, I was direct to 100 banks. And it just kind of took off from there. So we got lucky that we were able to buy some one off notes to pay the bills, bring some home, some bacon, some things like that. But it took a lot of work initially because we don't have the social media aspect that we have today and so many other tools out there you can use. But I wouldn't change what I do for a minute and all. It's become a lot easier now for new investors than it was six years ago. I love what I do. It's a fun time. I don't deal with a lot of the headaches or the toilets and tenants that a lot of people deal with. I'm not fighting retail buyers for REOs, foreclosed homes. About half the time the banks literally call me with deals. They're like, hey, we've got a list of stuff that we'd like for you to take a look at, see if you want to make an offer on it. And that makes life pretty easy.

Yeah. Yeah.

So why don't you. Since we're kind of. This is like a 101 type discussion that we're going to talk about how to get started. Maybe you could. A lot of the stuff is kind of intuitive, so it may be a little elementary here, but talk just about what is a note and kind of how does it. You know, a lot of times that when banks originate notes, they're just selling them off anyway. But just kind of talk about how that process is and then how the opportunity kind of creates itself for guys like you.

Sure. So if you've got a mortgage on your house, it's pretty normal. It's underwritten. It's based off your credit scores, the value of the house, your debt to income ratios. It's written up. And then a lot of times, many of us who bought traditionally 30 days after we closed our purchase, we get a letter in the mail saying that our mortgage has been sold off to somebody else. Now what's happened with 0809, with all the mortgage crash and markets across the country dropping, it left a lot of borrowers out there with zero motivation to pay their mortgage on time. You know, either they were way upside down or they lost their job or, or they were in an ARM loan, some sort of adjustable rate mortgage where the payments now became unaffordable and so they just stopped making payments. And the banks were never in a position to handle that many defaulted mortgages. I mean, if you watch Too Big to Fail or some of these other Margin Call movies that are some of the popular ones out there, that kind of talk about it, banks were only meant to have about an 8% default ratio. A lot of people like to blame it on the subprime markets. Yes, subprime kind of started this, but you had just as many A plus credit buyers or mortgage holders who went in default Just like the subprime guys. So you had all these mortgages going under. The banks weren't in a place to have all these banks failing. And when you had 368Banks fail in 2008, 2009, it left a lot of these portfolios of mortgages that were worth, you know, let me give you an example. A traditional, say, mortgage somewhere like in, I'll give an example. We bought it in an asset yesterday in Chicago. Mortgage is 120,000 is what that was owed when the mortgage was written in 2006, when the market was at its peak. It's now worth 50 grand. Okay. That's the fair market value. You know, the existing mortgage payments, 800 bucks. Well, market rent is 600. The borrower sitting in the house that's way upside down. They have no motivation. Their mortgage payment is more than what they would be paying in rent. That American dream has become an American nightmare for a lot of people.

Right, right.

And so the banks aren't handling things. The banks want them to make, you know, if they, look, if this person lost their job, they want to make all 12 months of their payments up. They're not flexible. They don't want to take a write down on the principal amount. They might adjust the interest rate down some, but that's not really helping the borrowers. And so you've got, you know, we had at the peak, 15 million homes that were underwater. Think about that for 15 million homes.

That's crazy.

Ridiculous.

Yeah.

When that was back at the peak in oh, nine, today's we still at seven, seven and a half million homes underwater.

You know, with all the improvements in value lately.

Yeah. Wow.

Yeah. And you still have like Florida, which is running at 12 plus months before close. New York, New Jersey at almost three years of foreclose if it drags out. So these banks have all this paper that's worth less than the toilet paper in the bathroom.

Yeah. Okay.

They want to sell it off. For them to take a year to foreclose, it's not worth their time because it costs them three to five times what it costs us to foreclose. So they're literally looking to move these portfolios for pennies on the dollar. Now the banks that have bought other banks, they bought these things at a discount anyway, maybe at 25, 30 cents of value. So if they can move it to a hedge fund that's going to pay 5 or 10% above what they pay for the asset in 30, 60 days, that's anywhere from like a 30 to 60% ROI, quick form. And so you've got a lot of these larger portfolios that were bought and sold and then kind of the trickle down effect now for investors like myself and others can go in and buy a chunk of this assets for pennies on the dollars or, you know, I'd say 50 cents of the dollar or less of current market value. It gives us a lot, a lot of opportunity because then we, if it's still occupied, we still go back to the borrower and say, hey, work with us, you know, yeah, you can't afford $800 a month, let's drop you down to 600 bucks a month.

Right.

And instead of you making up two years of back payments or three years of back payments, can you bring four months to the table? So you start adding those numbers up. Well, let's, let's run the numbers I gave a second ago. It's $120,000 mortgage, it's worth 50. We pick it up for 25 grand or less. We get 600 bucks a month mortgage payment. Now on a modification, 600 times 12 is 7200. Well, 7200 on a $25,000 investment, that's almost 30% right there.

Right.

You add in the four months of back payments, you assets another 2800. So you're at 10 grand on a $25,000 investment. That's a 40% ROI.

Yeah, yeah.

Not having to fix the home, not having to rent it. You get somebody making payments immediately for you, the borrower feels good about themselves because you forgave them some debt.

Right.

And you give them an opportunity. And now after six to 12 months, you got a reperforming asset you could sell off at 50, maybe 60 grand as appreciation comes back up, something you pay 25 grand for. So that's kind of it in a little bit of a nutshell. There's obviously more moving pieces to it, but that's the base premise for what we do on a daily basis here.

Sure, sure. At a high level, the lenders are just not prepared to deal with, talking with individual people renegotiating loans in many instances. So correct me if I'm wrong, and I may be totally wrong here, is they were insured against a loss there in many instances. Right. So they're like, it's not performing. I've got insurance to cover me. Let's just get out of this thing.

Right?

Totally. Two and a half years ago, Fannie and Freddie and all those that were on the hook for insuring a lot of these loans came out and stated, we plan on selling actually more notes off than actual REOs. So for those guys and gals on the call here that are HUD buyers, that's the reason these HUD foreclosures have dried up and dwindled. The numbers that are available to you are decreasing dramatically because the hud Selling them off. Selling the notes off well before they become an reo. And in specific wording, actually in the memo that came out, they literally stated, we plan on selling these to investors because investors have more opportunities and can be more flexible with exit strategies than we can.

Yeah, we're just recently sold some huge tranches of notes. Right. I mean, just massive, like never that large before, right.

Yeah, we've had a lot, a lot moved. We had a billion dollar portfolio. I noticed the other day, move the average unpaid balance like 200 grand. I always crack up because they use these. Here's what the. What was owed. I'm like, well, give me the actual real value of the asset, today's dollar. And they won't share that. But it's funny, they leak a little bit of out. And if you know where some of these trades are going and what they're selling them at and the buyer profile of actual. The person that's buying it, where they're buying it, you can tell it. Yeah, they're getting a sizable discount on what it's worth right now.

Yeah. Yeah.

So I think one of the, one of the things that's starting to change with guys like you that are out there talking about how to do this is that it used to be and still people still feel. It feels kind of institutional, like, well, I'm just an individual. How do I get started in doing this? And a lot of people, they don't even. I don't think they even know where to get started because it sounds like, well, just start calling banks and asking, can I buy your notes? And I mean, there's definitely a process to it. But talk a little bit about how. Let's kind of get into, like how people would get started from the beginning.

Well, a couple big things. One of the biggest mistakes that people make is they just pick up the phone or they walk into their local branch and say, hey, I want to buy your mortgage. And they're going to get told no almost 99.9% of the time.

Yeah.

The department inside the bank. And if you guys are listening, right. If you get anything out of this call today, keep this in mind. There's basically the name of the departments that handle the distressed note Sales falls into two things. They're either called special assets, Special assets department or they're also called the secondary marketing department. And these departments aren't usually at the corporate offices. They're not going to be at the 1-800-number you call. Okay. They're either the corporate office or they're a separate building or a whole separate state sometimes than the customer service side. So when you're reaching out to banks, you've got to be specific. You reach out for those two departments, you usually have to call the main switchboard and find somebody a VP level or higher. And you want to be specific. We're buying defaulted notes. A lot of investors struggle with this because they come out the gate and they're talking to somebody on the phone, say hey, I want to buy your notes and your reos. And you got to realize you got a $10 an hour employee on the line. They hear reos or notes, they're going to go to REO side because that's very common. So then they'll just send you straight to the REO department, which is often just a voicemail box that states please call the listing agent on your reo. And that's all that you're going to get. The distressed asset, the special asset sales, Secondary marketing department. Those guys and gals in the banks are the ones that are looking at the portfolio of the banks and realizing hey, we've got to move this stuff. The way banks have your money leveraged at 7 to 8 to 10 times for one loan to go in default costs them 10 times that in fees and lending capability. So these guys are motivated to move stuff. Now you're not going to call Chase, you're not going to call bank of America, you're not going to call Wells Fargo, Citibank. Those guys aren't going to deal with you on a one off basis. Let's just go ahead and get that clear. Yeah, they're just too big. They sell notes, yes, but they're in $50 million pools or as they call them tranches. So if you can write a $50 million check, just please see me or Mike after the call, but don't waste your time on that. I can't tell you how many times I get a phone call, I get a mortgage with Chase. Not gonna happen. What you want focus on is the mid sized, regional size banks that are in a few different states or a portfolio lender, if a portfolio lenders holding on their loans, they may be looking to sell them, but that's, I think that's one of the things people will start calling or they don't know what to say or who to ask for and they get lost. They may make 10, 15 phone calls and give up. Oh, it can't be done. Well, yeah, if you only make 10 to 15 phone calls, it can't be done. What we see on average, if you're making 50 phone calls and doing the right wording, you're probably going to get a hold of 14 to 15 asset managers on the call.

Yeah.

You're probably going to assign four to five non disclosure agreements. And out of this four to five, you'll probably get one tape or an asset sent to you that you can make a bid on.

Yeah.

And even with those regional banks or those local banks that might be out there, you know, as time goes by here this is more and more people are getting into note buying. So let's say there's just, you know, regional Acme bank that's in Central Texas or something like that. So surely there are multiple people calling that bank. How does somebody stand out from, you know, there's 10, 10 or 20 different investors like, like you calling them. How do you start to stand out?

You call back. I'm a big. One of my favorite motivational guys to read early on in sales is Tom Hopkins. You know, Tom had the book how to Master the Art of Sales and there's one line in that book that is probably more gospel not only in note investing, but real estate or in life. 80% of sales are made after the fifth contact.

Yeah.

And so the fifth contact by that is literally following back up. 99% of people that get into investing that call banks, they don't follow up.

Yeah.

And so it's the 1% that's gonna call back and then call back and then drop an email afterwards and follow back up and literally just be a bulldog on the phone. That's how you get successful. Most people will make one run through it and then they won't ever follow up. And that's just like everybody else. Those that separate themselves are the ones that are reaching out with a phone call, dropping an email and then like jumping on LinkedIn or spokey or something like that, tracking down the asset manager and then dropping an email through social media some sort. Hey, you know, I see you're the, the guy over at Quicken Loans. I'd love to visit with you, see what you have on your distressed debt that we could take a look at buying it. And yeah, you've got to be sole and purpose. You can't be a jack of all trades. And that's another thing. You know those business cards where people got 12 different things they do on them?

Yeah.

Or They've got a LinkedIn profile with a glamour shot and it says, you know, auto mechanic and real estate investor that's in business for a month. In today's world, social media is so important because if you look at LinkedIn, the asset managers, 90% of the time will jump on there and Google to see what you look like on your profile and see if you're a serious player or just a joker broker.

Yeah, yeah.

And we do that too, quite frankly, everybody that we have on that, we rely on a lot of referrals. So, you know, there's a guy we've had on the show previously that referred us to you. And you and I, I don't think we've ever personally met, but we've been to a lot of the same events and speaking stuff like that. So definitely run in the same circles, but. And not necessarily with you, but in fact, I have your LinkedIn profile up right here. So every time before I meet somebody, I want to go out and see, like, what's new. Because people, you know, change jobs and change roles and we do a little bit of research. So it's a powerful tool. So why wouldn't somebody that's looking to do business with you on a scale of millions of dollars use those same tools?

Social stalking.

Yeah. Yeah.

So I did the same thing on you, Mike. Who's this Flipner guy?

Yeah.

Hey, hey, man, I'm suspect.

I get it.

So, so, hey, so tell me this. So now that the next question is, I think what a lot of people run into is having access to funds to be able to do this. So if you could go get. If you could call a regional bank and get one loan that you pay 25,000 for 100,000, you know, maybe that would be great. But tell me what a lot of lenders, they're probably looking to package this and sell a lot off. Right. I mean, I do know. I've heard in the past, maybe I'm wrong.

Yeah.

I know in the past, and maybe this is the bigger banks where I've seen, you know, people have come to me before with, they have a tape, you know, they found the white whale and it has like 200 houses on it. And the problem is they say, you know, I'm in Dallas. They're like, well, we have 200 Dallas properties. Well, next thing I know, it's like half of them are Three hours away. It's not Dallas, you know, and there's a bunch of junk in there. There's nothing in the good in the good suburbs where I like to be. And it's just this hodgepodge of a bunch of stuff that you can't deal with. So I think that historically has kept people out of it. But talk maybe with the regional banks, is that different?

Yes and no. You realize 95% of the loans that are out there still are under $125,000 in value.

Okay.

That's just where it is. Socioeconomic statistics. Poor people pay more for housing and poor people are more susceptible to a missed job or missed payment and being in default, I mean. Yeah, well, I guess you could say. What is it? I saw a statistic that 87% of the United States is one missed payment or one missed paycheck away from being in default.

Yeah.

Kind of scary.

Yeah.

But they probably put 3% down, so. So it's not hard for them to.

Be underwater or they were doing some creative thing like with KB Homes $500 down and then the first they lived in for 12 months and then when their taxes reassessed on the new structure, they went in default. So as far as raising capital for these pools or stuff like that, you've. I always tell people start off, you gotta crawl before you run, you gotta walk before you run, you gotta strut, you know, trot before you run. Yeah, there's a lot of places out there to cut your teeth off or something to go buy a large pool. There's different exchanges that you can pick up a one off asset kind of learn the ropes because you've got to have a system in place. You've got to have servicers to help you manage the foreclosure, foreclosure trials and the borrower reach out. You need to have BPO companies that will help you pull values. You have title companies that can pull O and E's. Make sure you're buying a first lien or second lien or whatever you're trying to buy. Those servicers will help you out with more than anything else. You got to put a couple of plan in place before you go out and buy a pool of notes now. Yeah, you don't see a lot of high end notes like in the nice areas of Dallas that you like, you know, because of a couple things. Well, one, people that can afford a 300, $400,000 house, have a little bit of savings put away. Right. Okay. They're also have friends that end With Esquire, they get attorneys that can a drag things out for them, drag foreclosures out. You know, I don't like buying homes in the sign. I don't like buying notes because they're going to get dragged out to take me a year, two years to foreclose. And my money's spent better other places. So I like dealing in this, you know, sub $100,000 category. You realize, I'm not owning the real estate. My goal is not to own the real estate, is to own the mortgage, to get the cash flow right. And I don't want to deal with toilets and tenants. I want to be like the bank. You know, money might be bank of America, but bank of Scott. I'm fine with, you know, mailbox money or wires coming in. I'm fine with that where it's systemized. So, yeah, that, that's what I want more than anything else. And that's. You don't have to go buy a pool of 200 notes if you ever bought one note. Trust me, no banks gonna sell you a pool 200 notes if you're not experienced. Because banks don't want a PR nightmare.

Right? Right.

They're going to make. They're going to do their due diligence on you. Hey, who's your servicer? Are they HAMP approved? What's your workout goal with these things? Are you going to model much of these? Are you going to, you know, try to foreclose? Are you going to be do things legally or illegally? Are you a licensed debt collector? In some states. So that's where a lot of people, you know, they love, hey, the idea of hitting a grand slam that wins the world series with 200 assets. Start off with one asset or two assets or three, and then go to 10, then go from 10 to 20 and then go from there. And you'll build the experience and put your training wheels on to help you get, you know, crawl to walk to trot, to run.

Sure, sure, absolutely. And there's a. Maybe just take a minute to just talk about the differences between. In terms of. If people are looking at leans, some different flavors, like first lean, second lean. There's a lot of misconceptions, I think, about second liens, that there's more opportunity. From my experience of talking to other people, there's actually more opportunity there than I thought originally. I thought, hey, you could easily get wiped out, but which you can, but there's more opportunity there than I thought. But just, I guess for new people, do you recommend they even Touch second liens or should they primarily focus on first?

Well, there's pros and cons to each side. I call it like the Baskin Robbins of investing because you've got like 31 different flavors of things you can do. So I only focus on first liens. I buy non performing first liens. That's all I buy. Now. Occasionally I'll buy second behind my first if the bar is working with me or it helps me expedite my foreclosure or property or whatever we're doing on. I just like buying non performing first because I'm getting them at the cheapest. I'm still in first position. So the only thing that's gonna wipe me out is taxes and it gives me the most amount of flexibility. It's also easier for me to raise capital being the first lien position.

Yeah.

You know, now people that invest in seconds, and this is a rule of second investing, you only buy a second mortgage behind a performing first. Okay. All right. You never buy a second behind a non performing first because you're going to get wiped out. All right. Seconds are often cheaper to buy as far as the amount of capital needed. You may pay 5, 10 cents on the dollar unless there's equity. And then you're going to pay a portion of what the equity is available. But most second investors will buy four to five seconds. They realize they'll probably get two to three working the other two to three they're going to put in a file cabinet or sit on a shelf for a year or two.

Yeah.

You know, people like seconds because yes, you may. They're cheaper dollars. Your ROI are huge. But if I'm going to spend an hour on a project, I'd rather make 500 bucks versus 50 bucks.

Yeah.

You know, or 50 grand versus 5 grand. So it's a different flavor. A lot of seconds investors are coming out of like California because the property's ridiculous out there. The values are through the roof. So for them to buy a first, they may cost them a half million dollars to buy one first loan.

Right, right.

They could buy a pool of seconds. It takes a little more in depth hand holding or loan modification on the second side than it is first. First. If I want to foreclose, I'm going to foreclose. I have more options on the first side because I can foreclose, I can modify, I can allow them to assume the loan. I can do short sale. I can go to this. In some states out there have government programs like the hardest hit funds, which the state Will incentivize you as the borrower to do a loan modification, give you cash. If I'm in the first lien position and somebody's made three payments on time with a loan model, might be able to get them into an FHA loan and refinance me out in three months. Just more programs on the first side. Yes, it's more expensive because you're in the first, but you're able to raise capital a whole lot easier being on the first side than the second side.

Right? Right.

Yep.

Well, how do folks learn more about. Because unfortunately there's so much more to this than what we've talked about here. How do they really kind of. And I know you have, I guess you have information on your site. I mean, how can they go learn more about, you know, how to get started here? Because we unfortunately can't cover it all in a half hour. What?

Come on, Mike. You go to my websites. We close notes.com wweclosenotes.com another couple good resources for people. If you want to start reading up on things. Defaultservicy news or dsnews.com is a great thing. It's one of the first things I read every morning. It talks about servicing. It talks about secondary market, talks about the foreclosure market. That's a great way to kind of keep your ear to the ground to hear things. But weclosenotes.com is my website. We've got a lot of videos on there. Somebody said something the other day. If you go to my YouTube or my Vimeo account where I've got a couple hundred videos on there and you watched everything over a weekend, you'd be pretty knowledgeable. So that's good. Yeah, we do a lot of. We have a lot of educational that stuff away looking at. I mean, we've got workshops as well, but I always like to tell people, hey, go watch some videos and get your. Get your feet wet that way before you invest anything.

Yeah, that's great. Hey, maybe you could say one more thing. What do you think the primary difference is of why somebody would be interested in buying notes versus actually buying, you know, physical houses or buildings or whatever?

I'll give you my reason. I grew up in a hardware store, so I could fix anything in a house from building the foundation. You know, creating a foundational way to fix the roof and everything in between. My hour is worth more than going out and swinging a hammer. And so if anything, if you're trying to go out and battle other investors to buy an aria at the foreclosure auction or get one of the mls, you're going to get frustrated.

Yeah.

If you spent that same amount of time on notes, you're going to get a lot more deals. You're going to get deals sent to you. You're going to be creating the paper game. And if you, if you're any type of paper game, auto loans, first, second, you know, student loans, whatever the paper game is, there's money in paper. You being the banks, where the banks are so big because they make so much money being in the paper business and that's what they want to do. They don't want your deposits, they want your loans because that's where the money is at. So don't go out swinging a hammer. Don't go out and try to fix and flip. Don't deal with toilets and tenants. Become a mortgage, become a bank and you'll, you'll start banking. You won't be a broker anymore. You'll be richer.

Yeah.

Awesome. Well, Scott will add link the links down below for the links you mentioned for we close notes.com and DS News. But thanks for your time today man. I appreciate you being here.

Hey, thanks Mike. I appreciate. Glad to be here. Need anything, feel free to give me a phone call.

Awesome. Awesome. Have a good day.

You too.

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