JF974: Take Notes about NOTES and Debt with Scott Carson: Best Ever CRE Show with Joe Fairless

A lot of real estate investors go to different workshops and seminars and they're trying to do three, four or five things and they can never get any traction because they never give focus to one thing.

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Or you can have him and his agency do it for you. It's a turnkey solution. And by the way, that likely wind up being free too. Assuming that you're closing on the leads that he's generating for you as a result of all the efforts, go to adwordsnerds.com Joe he's got some amazing stuff. Ask him about the pre targeting for direct mail lists that he does. It's something unique to their company and it's pretty exciting stuff. He's noticing some tremendous results as a result of doing pre targeting. So ask him about that. AdWords nerds.com Joe Best ever listeners welcome to the Best Real Estate Investing Advice Ever show. I'm Joe Fareless. This is the world's longest running daily real estate investing podcast. We only talk about the best advice ever. We don't get into any of that fluffy stuff. With us today, Scott Carson. How are you doing, Scott?

I'm doing great, Judd. Thanks for having me.

Nice to have you on the show, my friend. And a little bit about Scott. He is the CEO of weclosenotes.com and the creator of the Note Buying for Dummies workshop. He is a speaker on distressed debt and the 2014 Note Educator of the Year. And he's been featured in the Wall Street Journal. He's an active real estate investor, been one since 2002 and has solely been focused on the Note industry since 2008. So guess what, Best ever listeners, I think you know what we're going to be talking about, don't you? You can say hi to him at his website. We close notes.com with that being said, Scott, you want to give the best ever listeners a little bit more about your background and your focus.

We focus directly on buying distressed debt only non performing first liens on residential and commercial properties all across the country from banks and hedge funds. We're buying for our own portfolio buy for students. But we've been doing that since everything hit The Fan in 2007. 89 My background I started off like a lot of real estate investors. My wife loved watching Flip this House on AMC tv. We decided we could be landlords. I thought that was a cool idea. And we bought our first investment property in 2002. The second one late 2002 as well. And then the market changed here in Austin, Texas. Dell Computers laid a lot of people off who are ideal tenants. The market went south for a little bit, owed more my properties than it was actually worth. Was a distressed borrower very quickly. So pretty lucky enough to get rid of those deals and get in hooked up with a couple real estate investors here locally who taught note investing, taught the traditional way of doing things and was pretty lucky there to learn real estate the right way options subject to deals. They also taught some note investing, owner finance and things like that. So for three, four years I had to work as basically apprentice and sponge up so much quality information from them. And then when the market went south again with everything in the mortgage industry, I saw the opportunities and stopped focused on short sales and subject to deals and fix and flips here in Austin and I started buying debt all across the country.

You've been focused on note buying since 2008. What are the pros and cons of note buying compared to buying rental properties, adding those into your portfolio? Because you've been on both sides.

Yeah, I've been on both sides. That's a great question. We get that a lot. Well first off, there's a lot more inventory out there. There's still 6 to 7 million defaulted loans out there right now. Second, we're often getting better pricing on the distressed debt than people are buying for rental properties. And then third thing, you don't deal with toilets and tenants. When was the last time you called bank of America? If you Got a Bank of America mortgage for them to come unclog your toilet or to fix your water heater if it goes out. You don't do that with a bank. And that's the beautiful thing about buying debt. We're buying it at a fraction of what most people are buying properties at 50% of value or less. We're working to create win, win, win scenarios with the borrowers trying to keep them in the properties by modifying the loan, doing a forbearance trial payment plan. And we've got a variety of exit strategies. But our biggest bang for the buck is when we can modify the loans, keep them in the property, they start paying on time for 12 to 18 months, and then we just either keep it for cash flow at a high ROI or sell that loan off to another investor who's looking for cash flow. So that's what I like about it is it's instead of being mailbox money, it's wire money. I get an invoice every month from our servicing company telling me who's paid and if they don't pay, they don't stay cool.

I want to talk more about the pros, but then I also want to have as objectively as you can look at it. So I asked about the pros and the cons. So obviously there are cons compared to buying rental properties. What are the cons?

The cons is you're the bank. And so there's a lot more that goes into a distressed note than buying a property that you're gonna put a renter in. When you buy a rental property, you own the real estate. So yeah, you can put a renter in there. You deal with all the management stuff like that, or hire a property management company. When you buy the note, you don't own the property now, you control it. But if you've got people that won't pay, the biggest cons is going to be basically that you're going to either have to foreclose or hire an attorney to reach out to that borrower to try to get them to do something. Like I said before, they don't pay, they don't stay. But in some states, it can take a little while to foreclose. Florida can take 12 plus months to foreclose. New York, New Jersey, you're looking at two to three years sometimes. There are states that are fast foreclosure states like Texas, Georgia, Arizona, Nevada that are easier to buy notes in because you can foreclose so quickly. I always tell people to expect to probably have to Put three to five grand in expenses along for attorney fees, servicing costs when you're buying a note because you're going to have to take over that bank's nightmare. That's really the biggest con, is you don't know exactly which way the deal is going to go. We've had deals that we thought would be easy modifications that turned into extended foreclosures of 12 to 18 plus months. We've had others that we were getting ready to foreclose on that turned into the borrower just signed the property over to us and walked away and left the property in clean condition. So it's the biggest frustration that some people get with notes is that they try to have one business model all I'm going to foreclose all the time. Well, it doesn't always work that way. That was the biggest mistake I made earlier on. I started buying notes. Joe. I plan to foreclose on everything and I left a lot of money on the table and spent a lot of money when I could have modified the loans initially, had cash flow coming in, not had to put up repair costs, not to put up foreclosure attorney costs and start making money immediately.

Can you walk through an example of what a foreclosure process would look like compared to a loan modification process? Just trying to get an idea of the costs involved and the people involved in each of those.

Okay, well, let's start with a loan modification. Once you buy a note, you're reaching out to the borrower and half the states will let you do that yourself. You want to. Other states want you to be like a licensed mortgage broker. I always recommend that you have a licensed servicing company do this. You don't want to do this yourself. So you have your servicer, they're making four to eight phone calls to reach up the bar. Hopefully the bar responds. If they don't respond, they're also sending direct mail campaigns out, certified letters. Hey, give us a phone call. We'll hire a realtor or door knocking service to go out and make contact with the borrower. Our biggest goal is within the first 30 days to make right party contact with the borrower and find out what their plans. If they're gonna tell us to pound sand or go do something else, that's fine. We'll send it straight to an attorney and start the foreclosure process. If they decide to modify, then it's a matter of figuring out, okay, what's the property, what was your existing payment, what's market rent for that same type of Property is what I like to look at because that's gonna basically be what the borrowers are looking at. Can I move out and rent something similar? We use the market rent rates of the property to figure out, okay, your mortgage payments, 1500 bucks. Market rent rate is 1,800. You should probably just start making your payments on time. We're not really going to adjust that down much for you because if you moved out, you're going to go pay more. So it's better for you to work with us and then sending out documents to them to get them signed, notarized, sent back in. The trial payment plans will be anywhere from 3, 6 to 12 months, depending on what the borrower and we can come to an agreement. Sometimes we'll reduce interest rates, sometimes we'll make them pay 6 to 12 months on time before we reduce principal and what they're owed on the loan. But there's all sorts of creativity with those modifications of trial payment plans to really hit some home runs. As far as ROIs, we've had borrowers bring anywhere from $500 to the table or 10 grand to modify their loan.

One question about that process. Who's doing the negotiations with them? You said hire a licensed servicing company to reach out to the borrower. Are they also negotiating with them on your behalf?

They are. They're notifying us. Hey, I spoke to John Smith today. Here's what they would like to try to do. Does that make sense for you? And we're going back and forth either via phone call, conference call or emails. When I buy notes, I tell the servicers what I'd like to do and I give them some guidelines of what I'm looking for. For example, for example, if the borrower can't bring at least four months of back payments to the table, we're not going to modify, we're going to offer cash for keys. At that point, they can bring four months to the table. Great. We'll look at, keep them in the property. But if they can't bring that, they don't have any skin in the game. Anytime that you modify a loan or do a trial payment plan and the bar doesn't bring any skin to the game, they end up defaulting later on and ending up before closing. So I'd rather just, hey, instead of us fighting over this, let's just make this a win win. You can't really afford it. Based on what you're telling me your financials are, let me just give you some cash to walk from the property and, and Let you start over.

Okay, that's helpful. Thank you. So you said if they decide to modify, then you figure out what the market rent is, and then you either charge them that, or if their principal payment and interest and everything is lower than that, then they might as well just pay that versus the market rent because they're going to have to pay higher if they were to leave. So then what's the process if they.

Decide to leave, Joe?

Yeah, if they decide to leave.

Yeah, they decide to leave, then it's basically just getting with our local attorneys in that state or that city, signing over documents. We always run title report to make sure there's not any other junior liens behind ours. If there is liens, then we may have to do a foreclosure. Or we'll get the bar to agree to a consent to judgment to speed up the foreclosure time frame. There's no other liens behind the property that we don't want to negotiate down or are glad to pay off, like weed liens or even some credit card debt, stuff like that. We'll just pay those liens off to take the property back. Depending on what we pay for the property. It's a pretty simple process. They show up at attorney, sign off on a deed in lieu, they'll leave the keys with our attorney. Then our real estate agent goes by and change the locks in the property and we file the documents. Now it's an REO to us and we can do whatever we want with the property at that point.

I know this is going to be a tough question because it depends on the particular opportunity. But roughly what are the costs involved with the loan modification process? And I'm going to ask the same question about process and cost for the foreclosure process.

Right, Modification. I'm saying you're probably gonna pay about 1500 bucks in servicing fees and paperwork. You gotta pay an attorney to create the modification documents to get that filed. You're probably gonna see 1500 bucks, roughly. If you're gonna foreclose, you're probably gonna see somewhere between a thousand bucks to foreclose in a state like Texas, all the way up to like $5,000 on average in Florida, which is like 12 to 18 months to foreclose. We have had situations where they've drug on longer. I have one asset, take two years to foreclose in Florida, cost me six grand in foreclosure fees, and then I also paid ten grand to the borrower to expedite it and just quit fighting with them. 35. It was worth 100. It made sense for me to pay him 10 grand to walk away.

In that case in Florida, as you mentioned, does take longer, but how does it get strung out to two years?

It's a good thing. One is sometimes they hire attorneys that will drag stuff out. Now, Florida was taking about 12 months of this time frame, which is you're just waiting on a judicial foreclosure time frame. The attorney for the borrower filed a couple delays. My attorney showed up to court one day and didn't have all the original documents that she needed to have to proceed. So that delayed it 90 days. Oh, gosh. Yeah, Especially they requested me to fly out there and show up as a witness. So it was little frustrating because I had some airfare costs and hotel fees, but it was still a win win because we bought the notice at a cheaper price. So you have delays that happen like that. Sometimes you've got to refile assignments. Now we're foreclosing a couple properties in Chicago right now. In Chicago. I call them crook counting because it is just taking forever to foreclose. The judges have given the tenants and the borrowers extra time upon extra time upon extra time. The sheriff doesn't want to enforce the evictions of the tenants. I will never buy another note in Chicago itself. I'll buy another areas in Illinois, but never in county again.

Yeah, it's interesting how different counties and states approach this process.

Yeah, some are real easy. Some will do everything online. Show up, bam, it's easy done. Other times you got to show up in person and drag stuff out. But that's what keeps it so interesting, Joe, is there's a lot of great things I always tell people. Start investing in five states, pick out five states and you'll learn a lot about the different foreclosure laws and things like that. But you also have plenty of opportunity with deal flow as well.

I believe you have access to distress notes and you mentioned earlier that you have people who invest or your students who go in the process. But let's just assume your program doesn't exist for an investor who's listening to this and they wanted to do distressed note investing. Where do they go to find those notes and where do they go to get the licensed servicing company?

Real easy. There's specific departments inside of banks and mortgage companies all across the country. And that's what I started off doing was calling these banks and real estate funds and mortgage companies. If people don't get one thing out of this podcast with you today, is they should get this is that the individuals inside of the banks, they go by the names of either special asset managers or secondary marketing managers. And they also have a chief credit risk officer. It's often sometimes the name of the department. So those three names, Special assets, secondary marketing and chief credit risk officer, you're not going to call customer service. You can go to LinkedIn and Google special assets managers or secondary marketing. Literally, LinkedIn will show you close to 8,500 or 9,000 special asset managers from banks and landing institutions across the country. I like reaching out to those guys and gals because they're the people that handle the portfolio. They know what's performing, what's not performing. They know the nightmares loans that the bank is looking to get rid of. And that's a great source to find assets. We do it on a regular basis here and it's actually helped us build a large database of bank asset managers that we reach out to on a regular basis. Servicing companies. All you gotta do is Google loan servicing companies. You'll find them all across the country. There's hundreds of small companies either that will service loans just in that state or other larger companies that will service loans all across the country. They're there to help assist you in getting your loans performing. They'll also handle performing loans if you set up on payment plans. And those charges will run you from 20 to $75 a month per loan. If you've got a performing loan servicing company will charge you like 15 to 20 bucks just to collect the payments and send out statements. It's a non performing loan. They're going to charge you somewhere between 75 and 100 bucks a month to handle the call out during the borrower reach out.

It seems really inexpensive.

It is when you consider what your time is worth. Some people, I won't say a lot, some people try to do that themselves. And with the CFPB and the Dodd Frank laws and all that stuff, you don't want to mess around. So if you're not a licensed mortgage broker or licensed debt collector in the state, your time is better spent finding assets or raising capital and closing deals.

What questions should you ask a loan servicing company that you reach out to about doing this for your distress note that you.

Good question. One, what states are you licensed in? There are some services out there that aren't licensed in all the states, but they're still trying to service loans, which is a big nasty thing. The second thing is do they have a list of real estate attorneys across the country that you can use. Third thing is, can you speak to the real estate attorneys that they recommend? Some servicing companies want to be the go through where you've got to deal with an account rep and they're the middleman to get any information. I will not deal with servicing companies that want to be that filter. I want to speak to the real estate attorneys directly. I'll often hire my own real estate attorneys, use attorneys I've been using for years. The servicing company will just charge me 35 bucks a month to board their loan and we handle all the loss mitigation through our attorney's offices.

Do you still look for new loan servicing companies?

I actually have three different loan servicing companies right now that are major portfolio and I do get bombarded with few companies here and there. It depends on the situation. If I'm buying loans from a source and it's with a new servicing company that I am not currently using, it depends on where it is in the foreclosure process. If it's almost all the way through the process of being foreclosed on or less than 90 days out, I'll just leave it with that existing servicing company. Servicing companies are a lot like vendors. Sometimes they're good, sometimes they're bad. Like anything else, sometimes you do start looking for other vendors, especially if your servicing company starts to lag behind, starts goofing up on sending out documents and notices and things like that. So I haven't had a look for a new one in some time because I'm pretty happy with the two out of three that I'm using right now. The third one, basically they're just boarding our stuff and we handle everything with our attorneys on a directly basis.

Just to get a sense of the type of typical profits that you'll make on a deal, can you give us a case study of just not your best, not your worst, but a typical deal and the amount of money you make?

I'll give you a very simple formula of what we look at doing. We buy assets that I won't go above 50, 55% of value. 55% is when you add in taxes owed. So if I'm going to be at 55% and I'm end up having to foreclose, I'm probably going to see another 3 to 5% in fees. So I'm going to be at somewhere around 60%. If I sell it at 90, 95 cents on the dollar, either at a foreclosure auction or if I've got to take it back and sell it, I'M going to see somewhere around 15 to 20% of fair market value profit. Now that's often a really good return because a lot of times we're doing this in six months or less. So it's doubling up our roi. Because the fact when you annualize it, that's if I have to foreclose, if I'm going to modify, I'm always looking to see around a 20 to 25% yield on the payments that are coming in for 12 months. That's what makes it worth my time. It's what makes it worth my investors time. Any joint venture partners that we work with, if we're having to split payments on this stuff. So we're looking for a 20, 25% yield on a modified or potential modification, all the way up to 25, 30% yield on our money if we have to foreclose in a 12 month time frame.

You mentioned earlier 3 to 12 month of trial payments. Why only 12 months? Why not 36 months or something even longer?

Usually for 12 months they're going to want to change. Borrowers are going to want some change to happen. Either the market value of the property is going to go back up or the property value may decline. So anytime we try to do a 36 month trial payment plan, it never succeeds. Another important thing is once you've gotten 12 months of payments on time, that loan is now considered a re performing loan again. And the value of it is much better or higher. Now it's worth something more. You'll have people that pay 85, 90 cents on the dollar for a reperforming loan with 12 months of seasoning versus it's got 36 months of season. That's great. But after 12 months you could sell that note off. Like I said, 85, 90% of value pretty fast. Plus I've been in a barge. I've been the deadbeat bar before. I've helped plenty of people modify their loans. 12 months, they're paying on time, they're taking care of the property. They like to know that they really kind of own that property. Again the bank is working with them. Especially if they brought some skin together. They brought four months of payments or five grand down to reinstate that loan, then they're much willing to work with it and then they have some pride of ownership again. They're taking care of the property, keeping the insurance paid on it and doing some stuff. If you start looking at three years of trouble payment plan, that's tough for people sometimes. I'm not saying people aren't always going to be on time. There's times people are going to go late anyway, especially around Christmas or January. What we have built into our modifications is we just go ahead and forgive the December payment if they stay 12 months. Like hey, Merry Christmas, go have a merry Christmas on us.

I have found that with my properties also with apartments. Yeah. Then March, the money all comes back because they get a tax refund check.

Yeah, exactly. It's always funny to tell that catch up payment usually comes around the middle of February. Yeah.

Yep, absolutely. Last question and then I'll ask you the money question. When you have the 12 months of payments that was on a distressed non performing note. Now it's performing. Okay, you've got it. Where do you go to sell it?

Good question. There's a variety of different hedge funds out there that are looking for just reperforming loans. They like the yield. There are banks that will buy reperforming loans. There's a lot of IRA investors looking for a solid steady return inside of their IRAs. So we've sold our performing loans anywhere from like a self directed IRA event like Quest IRA or new viewers all the way to even listing it on Craigslist. So hey, we've got a performing note that's been performing for 15 months. We're looking to sell it at 50k. It would be a 15% return on investment based on the payment stream to an investor if you're interested. It's pretty easy going to local real estate investment clubs are great. LinkedIn in the different real estate groups, Facebook groups. We've sold performing loans at a variety of places.

Based on your experience in real estate, what's your best real estate investing advice ever?

Best real estate investing advice ever. I would say be focused. A lot of real estate investors go to different workshops and seminars and they're trying to do three, four or five things and they can never get any traction because they never give focus to one thing. We see that a lot. We see people, oh, I like the idea of notes. I'm a landlord or I'm a fix and flipper. I want to buy notes for fix and flips. Well, they never get around to being focused on one thing to develop those relationships, develop those habits, develop the systems to find success. The whole 80, 20 rule. If 80% of your income coming from 20% of your focus, well, if you were to focus all your focus on it, your income would be basically 400 to 500 times what it is. And I think that's the best advice I can Give anybody notes isn't always for everybody. If you like the tangible side of going out and using a hammer and nail and rehabbing a property or like apartments or you like things like that, that's great. Stick to that. If you're having trouble with that, notes might be a great way to do that. If you don't want to deal with the headaches of toilets and tenants or the fix and flip aspect.

I love that advice. All right, you ready for the best ever lightning round?

I am. Hit me up, big man.

All right, let's do it. First though, a quick word from our best ever partners. Got your free strategy session to generate online leads yet? Well, if not, go to adwordsnerds.com Joe Dan Barrett's gonna give you a concrete online advertising strategy. By the end of the conversation, you can choose to implement it yourself or you can work with this team and they'll implement it for you. AdWords nerds.com Joe are you ready to grow and protect your wealth in any market? Join Cash Flow Tactics to learn the exact strategies real estate investors can use to maximize returns. Using whole life insurance as a new banking resource, visit cashflowtactics.com that's C A S H F L O W T A c t I s.com alright, here we go. What's the best ever book you've read?

Very easy. Outwitting the Devil.

Really?

Yes. Outwitting the Devil by Napoleon Hill and Sharon Lecter. It is an amazing book. We give dozens and dozens of this book away to our friends and family and students. It goes in line with, I talked about earlier, my best advice about being focused. The book talks about basically, if you've never read it before, talks about how Napoleon Hill is having a conversation with the devil. Why is he so successful at having people fail? And the devil says, well, I'm successful because I get people to drift. They get shiny object syndrome. They're never focused. They're never able to achieve the type of success that they were focused. And that's hands down my favorite book of all time, Outwitting the Devil.

All right, I've read that and there have been multiple people on the show who have mentioned that book and I just couldn't get into it. But maybe I need to relook at it because I don't know, because clearly some smart people are enjoying it. What's the best ever deal you've done?

Best ever deal we've done? Oh man, I would probably say probably the biggest deal we've done individually. We bought a portfolio of 200 plus assets that were worth about 12 million that we picked up for just over a million bucks. And it's been great. We've been modifying those loans. We had some that we foreclosed on, but it's been a really growing period going from buying one off loans to small pools. That's been one of our largest pools so far of assets that we bought.

What's the number one risk for an investor? Say you found another $12 million portfolio, you bought it for a million, and you brought in one investor with a million dollars. When she asks you what's the number one risk, what do you tell her?

Number one risk is not knowing our property values or checking tax. There's three things with notes that you've always got to double check. You got to make sure your property values are accurate. That doesn't mean going by Zillow photos. That means literally having somebody drive by the property. All right. We made a mistake early on in our business where we trusted a realtor to drive by. She took great photos of three sides of the property, but she missed the big gaping hole on the other side. Superman had flown out of it. So using realtors, making sure that we tell them, hey, please look at all sides. We want to make sure it's a Blazing Saddles house. That's the biggest thing, is knowing your values. Second thing is double checking taxes. You've always got to double check the taxes owed and you want to make sure that the borrower's name on the note matches up with who's on the county records. If it's a different name, that property is probably going to tax sale and your note is not worthless. The third thing is checking title. That's pulling a a title report or is what we call it's an OE report. Ownership and encumbrance report is kind of a watered down title report that just shows us what the condition of the lien history is and if there's anything else on title that might be blocking our ability to foreclose. So those three things are the biggest things. Having your vendors in place is also critical. You buy a lot of notes. You want to make sure you have your systems down because you don't want to sit around for six or 12 months, figure things out while your fruit is riding on the vine.

The $12 million worth of property said over 200 assets. So I assume like over 200 homes.

Yep.

How long did you have from when you were notified that there was a potential to buy to when you actually wired the money?

We had 60 days, 60 days to do initial due diligence. And then we also wrote into the contract a six month buyback period. We had six months to finish up our due diligence. This was an end of year closing. So we had to fund by December 27th. And we had six months to review the assets. If they were trashed out, we were able to. The seller had. We also got a credit for the taxes owed over that six month period if we had to send them back. So that was a really nice six months. Hey, this property is trashed out or it's just an empty lot now. We swapped it out with new assets.

And you said you're still in the process of turning that thing around so you don't know what your returns are as of yet.

Our returns have been very, very, very positive. Investor got their money back in the first six months after our six month time frame. So within 12 months they got their money back and then we're splitting profits on that stuff. So I still own some of the assets still to this day. They're performing. We've got some that have been performing for a while that we've sold off. Others that we've taken down and foreclosed and kept them as rentals or turned them into REO sales. So it's been a phenomenal return. Very phenomenal return. The assets I still own are worth. My side is worth 4 million and I don't have a penny into the game. It's all been used with private money when we funded the deal. So I got basically $4 million worth of assets for nothing.

What's the best ever way you like to give back?

Best ever way I like to give back. We have a big, big passion for two sets of individuals. We work a lot with young kids. We always like to donate to Toys for Tots the end of the year along with different children's charities. We do a lot with the called Fresh Start out in San Diego where they go out and perform surgeries for children with face deformities. And we also have a big passion for helping past and present military and first responders. We love working with those guys. Whether it's wounded warriors or a variety of other charities that help out with our past and present military. We provide education classes for free to those guys and just really love helping those out because they've done a big job in helping us have the freedoms that we have today.

What is a mistake you've made on a deal that you would do differently if presented the same opportunity?

I think probably a couple of those would be with our Chicago deals. We bought stuff and we foreclosed on stuff in Chicago before around Chicago, Illinois. I would probably have talked to my attorneys a little bit more that were handling that foreclosure process and what they expected the timeframes to be and doubled that time frame. They said six month plan on a year. They said a year plan on two years. I mean we're still gonna come out making our money back and give our investors a good return on their money. But seeing some of the things that have happened up there have been outside of our control and outside of our attorney's control. Just kind of ridiculous.

Where can the best ever listeners get in touch with you?

The best ever listeners can get a hold of me@weclose notes.com it's our website, weclosenotes.com Best way to reach me there.

Well, I loved our conversation. I am always educated whenever I talk note buying with someone and you certainly educated me a lot from questions we ask loan servicing companies to the three primary things we look for during due diligence, which is the property values, the taxes and the title, as well as the cost implications and timing implications for loan modification versus a foreclosure and then even sprinkling in some of the states that are more and less friendly to the process. So thanks so much for being on the show. Hope you have a best ever day and we'll talk to you soon.

Thanks, Chuck.

Are you ready to grow and protect your wealth in any market? Join Cash Flow Tactics to learn the exact strategies real estate investors can use to maximize returns using whole life insurance as a new banking resource, visit cashflowtactics.com that's C-H F L-O-W-T-A C T-I S.com.