Profiting with Notes Featuring Scott Carson: Profit with a Plan Podcast with Marcia Riner

Hey entrepreneurs, are you trying to make bigger profits in your small business? Like many of us, I'm sure you're feeling it. Business is hard. Now more than ever, you need to have a plan to help your business not just survive, but thrive. Marcia I'm Marcia Reiner. I'm a business strategist on a mission and I've helped tons of small business owners to establish and implement a tangible plan that guarantees sustainable profitability and guide your growth. And I want to share some strategies that I've earned and learned on today's Profit with a Plan podcast. So I'm really excited to have on with me one of my coaches and guest today, Scott Carson. And he is with the no Closers. Scott has a nationally syndicated radio and podcast host of a popular Note Closers show podcast with millions of listeners each month. He has an active real estate investor and entrepreneur since 2002 focused on the niche of distressed mortgage investing. For the past 10 years, he has been helping real estate investors and entrepreneurs to create wealth through his teaching and strategies. He is a highly sought after speaker and podcast guest with thousands of speaking appearances at events across the country. He has also been featured in many media outlets including Investors Business Daily, Wall Street Journal, and Inc. He spends his time traveling to new places and making memories. He calls Austin his home. Austin, Texas, by the way, his home. I don't know how much traveling he's doing under Covid, but you know what? He's traveling via electronics. So welcome to the podcast. Scott.

Hey Marcia, honored to be here. Yeah, my travel schedule's been a little light this year compared to what it normally is at 40 to 50 spots a year. But you know what, just make it lemonade out of lemons in a lot of cases for most things.

Right. Just add a lot more sugar in it and it'll all be good. Right?

Exactly.

Yeah. Geez. Well, I lived in the south for a little while. I lived in North Carolina, which is odd cause it's north, but it's the South. And oh my gosh, lemonade and sweet tea and biscuits. I mean, that's it. So if we can just live off of that stuff, we'll explode.

Yeah, you know what? Exactly. Here in Texas, in the south, if we can't fry something in batter, Chicken fried steak, chicken fried chicken, chicken fried Oreos, chicken fried Snickers. I even saw somebody in a cannabis industry said chicken fried cannabis. I said, I don't think that would be a very good thing. But anyway, it'll solve the munchies while you get high at the same time, I guess.

Welcome California. It's been like that for years, so it's good. God, this is crazy. So what we're talking about today, which is a really super important topic to me, is that what do you do, what do business owners do when they start making a lot more profits? How do we peel some of that off of their balance sheet in a way so they're not taxed? And I'm a huge fan of making business investments and, and this is a perfect avenue for it, Scott. So talk to me about what mortgage investing, note investing really, truly is.

Yeah, thanks for asking that and I'm here to serve your audience. But note investing and mortgage investing is the process of actually becoming the bank, as we like to say. We like to buy, we buy debt. And some people like, why would you want to invest in debt? Well, everybody's in the debt game these days. If you get credit card or student loans, car loans, mortgages, whatever it might be, we're all in the paper game. Just unfortunately, most people are on the wrong side of the payment stream. They're paying out versus paying in. And I know your profit with the plan is all about that income coming in different levels. So when we talk about buying and investing in mortgages, we literally are doing that. We're buying the mortgage from a bank or lending institution, becoming the bank and then collecting that cash flow on a monthly basis. If it's a performing note, if it's a non performing, where somebody has stopped paying for a variety of reasons, distress, Covid, job loss, death, divorce, whatever it might be. We make money by buying that debt and then trying to work with a bar to keep them in their house. If we can keep them in the business. Because you can buy notes on paper, I mean a paper on businesses and commercial properties and then work to get them back on track. Turn that non performing into a performing nut. Turning lemons into lemonade, as I like to say. We like to turn problem properties into profitable solutions for the most part.

Ooh, I like that tagline, profitable solutions. Love that. But clarify a little bit. You're buying the paper, not the house, right?

Exactly. The house is the collateral for the loan. And while we have to do a lot of due diligence, instead of just being like a traditional real estate investor who's going to go buy a property to fix it up and flip it or turn into a rental space, we have another level of due diligence because we're actually more so evaluating the borrower on the paper, on the payment streams. Looking at the loan documents, is everything clear in the loan docs? Do we have the right to foreclose if the borrower doesn't pay us? So while we do evaluate the property, I actually don't want to end up with a property. I don't want to get into fix and flips and create another job for me. I want to own the paper and get and leverage my dollars by buying an asset that's worth something. A note that's worth 100 grand that I could pick up for 50 cents on the dollar and then I could double the return on investment on the note. And there's a lot of great things you can do with that leverage wise. If you do want to own the property, great. But the banks are the biggest and tallest buildings out there because they're not in the property business, they're in the paper business and leverage. So if you're the lender, that's really what I'm doing is when I buy paper, buy mortgages, buy notes, I'm becoming the bank. And the beautiful thing is that there is, it's a third party kind of vendor system. There's a lot of people that help you out with this. You don't need a ton of licenses. Most things you can get away with buying in those states without having a license by using your vendor. So I love the business, been doing it for over a dozen years. Bought over a half a billion dollars in debt on just about any type of asset class out there, from a mobile home park to a high rise office building to. You can even buy notes on boats or airplanes or trucks and stuff like that. We've dabbled in a little bit of that all.

Wow. Okay. So this is amazing. And it doesn't sound like you have to become a landlord and know how to fix things or flip things and correct it. You're actually buying the paper. So I'm liking. Do these tend to be really long term investments or can they be short term investments as well?

I'm glad you asked that question because when somebody thinks about the mortgage business, they instantly start thinking, oh, I got to be tied to this note or this borrower for 30 years and nobody wants that.

Yeah, they're called handcuffed, right?

Yeah, exactly. Screaming Exactly. Or in this case, we don't want to do that.

Oh my God, we got sound effects on us. Love it.

So what we always say is if we're buying a non performing nut, it's probably going to be or even performing a three to five year investment with that one either that borrower or that note of that property because it's not performing. It usually takes us about 12 months to start working with the borrower to either get them back on track or if they won't deal with us, we'll start the legal process and hire a real estate attorney to start the foreclosure process to take the property back and then sell, sell the property off and then take that money and buy two or three assets. Most people, average people, are moving every five to seven years. So in a lot of cases we'll get a phone call. If we held onto a performing note for a couple years. Oh, hey, borrower needs to get a payoff because they're moving, they're selling the house and so we get a payoff. And so same thing. Great. We bought a note at a discount, they've been paying on time, so we're getting a nice return. And then we get this big lump sum at the end there. Five to seven years on average, sometimes sooner that we get that we now, okay, we got our investment back plus some profit. Let's go back and go buy two or three more now and rinse and repeat all over again.

Well, it sounds like it's an asset that if you're buying it at a discount, meaning if it's worth 100,000, you can get it for 30 or 40,000 or maybe even 20,000, depending on the deal. You can get a significant deal for it and then you're selling it later on for a profit. But there's a second way that you can drive opportunities out of this, and that's with the performing notes, right?

Yeah, exactly. Performing notes is somebody who's just been performing, they've been paying on time and a lot of funds are selling performing notes off. Now it's not going to be like a 30. You're not going to pick it up at 20, 30 cents on the dollar because it's been performing, but you can still get a 10, 15, 20% discount off of that. And then depending on what the interest rate on the underlying, that could be a really nice substantial yield on almost a passive basis. If a Note's written at 6% and you get a 20% discount now, you're making 6.5 or 8% somewhere, depending on what the numbers are and the terms are. But we have a lot of people that like, they don't want to do any work, they don't want to deal with borrowers. So they just want the money. They just want the money coming up in zeros and ones into Their account on the 5th or the 15th. And there's servicing companies out there that handle the borrower outreach. They handle the collections of money in most of the states out there that do require you to be like a debt collector or have a license. If your servicer is licensed, guess what, it's covered. You don't have to go out and spend extra thousands of dollars to go get a mortgage broker's license or to debt collector's license. Except in just a few states out there.

But. Okay, well I know for a fact and I want you to confirm it. Is this an expensive option to manage and run? I mean bankruptcy attorneys or foreclosure attorneys, servicing companies, all those kind of things. Is this an expensive venture?

The magical answer to every real estate question is it depends, right? But no, for the most part, no. Except if you're buying in states that have a longer foreclosure timeframe. That's the kicker. Servicing a note is pretty inexpensive. If you're buying performing notes, it may be $20 to $25 a month per mortgage that the servicers charging in to handle that paperwork and outreach. I mean a monkey can handle performing notes for the most part, just collection and sending the money. The non performing stuff. You have to start looking at the foreclosure time frames and that can start to get a little expensive. If you're looking at states that have a longer foreclosure time and we all know attorneys work at somewhere around $250 an hour. And so if you're buying in a state like New York or New Jersey, it could cost you ten grand to foreclose and two years of your time. I don't buy in those states because I want my money to work a lot faster than waiting around two years for a document. So I buy in about 30 different states that have somewhere between, like in Texas, it's fast to foreclose 21 days. And the longest, I would say is probably Chicago, I mean not Chicago. Illinois is about a year. Florida was 18 months 10 years ago. They've gotten a lot better about half the time now. And that's what we look at. Foreclosure is going to cost you somewhere around an average of 1000 bucks in the fast dates to like 3 to 4 grand in those year long foreclosure time frames. The beauty of it is though, if you are buying in a longer foreclosure timeframe, usually the bank or lender will give you a better discount because there's that time value of money. So you might get a 10%, 20% even, 30% discount if it's a longer foreclosure that hasn't been started yet.

Nice. Okay, so it's not really that expensive to get involved with it. And I think when you're doing your due diligence on these properties, there's a system and a cadence you're gonna follow. But honestly the risk seems to me really low if you do your homework. And so talk to me a little bit about some of the homework you're going to want to do on these kind of properties.

Yes, very good question. I'm glad you brought that up. You've always got to do your due diligence. We always look at the property values, making sure that we're buying at a substantial discount. That makes sense. Even if we do have to foreclose, we're still getting at a discount. We're making sure by looking at the borrower. What's their payment stream? Are they occupied? Is it vacant? Did the borrower want to try to stay in the house? Cause we get to look at the collateral file, the actual original loan docs, we'll look at copies and we can see the notes from the servicing company. If the borrower's been calling, hey, I'd like to stay in or I'd like to do a mod or I've struggled. We see kind of the behind the curtain notes that most people don't see. And then of course you gotta check taxes, you gotta check the legal side if you have the right to foreclose. So I would say there's like five big points when we're talking with investors out there. One is we're usually buying at 70% of value or less, substantially less. I'm only buying first liens. Cause you can buy a second lien or a third lien, but I always wanna buy a first lien. So I'm in the driver's position. The only thing that could wipe me out would be taxes. And that's one thing we check during our due diligence.

And that's something you can control.

Exactly, exactly. I can control that. The third thing is that we always use professionals like attorneys, servicing companies to handle the paperwork, to handle the legal side of things. You should not be the person out there knocking on people's doors. Exactly. You're big on systems and being an entrepreneur and not being the being self employed. You want to run a business, so we always use vendors. Fourth thing is insurance. We want to always put insurance on the properties in case of an act of God or In case the borrower walks away and somebody vandalize. Wives have insurance. And the fifth thing, the fifth thing, besides insurance professionals is just is investing in areas that you understand and know. Getting the fact to know the markets you're in. I had somebody just a few minutes ago, I was on the phone, he's like, oh, I got some bids accepted, I made it to a fund. I'm like, okay, where are they located at? He goes, new York State. I'm like, you know, it's a two year foreclosure process. He's like, oh, oops. I'm like, well, you better cancel that. You know, another one came back. It's like, oh, I'm bidding at $0.80 on the dollar of this one. I'm like, well, you're overbidding because. What do you mean? I says, well, the value's 100, but the guy only owes 50. You just overbid by 30 grand on that stuff. And so it's a different mindset. You gotta get educated more than anything else. It's different than Fix or Flop or Flip this House, which are those lovely fictional TV shows on ame. Just gotta get educated and it's not difficult. You just gotta have a little bit of a banker's mindset and really approach it. That, hey, your number one strategy is always gonna be to try to keep in their houses if you can, and then go from there. So it gives you an opportunity to do a lot of good while also putting some good chunks of money in your pocket.

Love it. We love those chunks of money. So these aren't things that you have to do all by yourself. I mean, there's syndicates or teams that will do all the hard work for you and you just become the, literally the bank. And then there's that team of people that go and do all the research for you. And you learn to trust so you don't have to go on your very first one and get your hands dirty and go, like you said, knocking on doors. There are systems and ways to do it to get you involved. But the returns, okay, we're going to talk a little bit about returns. And first, let me give you all a disclosure. This is not something that I'm saying go out and do. Talk to your advisors, talk to your tax people, see if this is the right play for you. There's people like Scott, this is what you're doing for your career. You talk, you coach, and you teach these things I would highly encourage. If this is something that's interesting to you, then learn about it and get involved. But now that I've given my quote disclosure. This is not standard returns and performance does not history and stand on your head kind of stuff. Just only hear what you want to hear and listen. Good disclosure, very good disclosure. Talk to me about potential returns on these things.

So what we say and when I tell my students and people out there, look, if you want performing notes where somebody's been paying on time, they've never gone default. You can find performing notes that you can buy at an 8 to like a 15% return on investment. Okay. Not bad. Pretty good stuff.

Not bad for a stream of income that comes into your mailbox every single month like clockwork.

Exactly, exactly. So that's pretty good. I mean that's. We see that stuff all the time. You can also see where somebody like me bought a non performing nut. We put our sweat into it and our teams got it re performing and we're selling it at 10 to 12% return because we're gonna make 30 to 40% our side and that's on the non performing side. You can make high teens if not in the 20s depending on the state. It is depending on what the deal is because you're doing a little bit more work. You're taking that problem child and kind of fixing up working with them to get back on the track to home ownership properly or paying on time. So you get a bigger discount on the non performing side and higher returns. But it does take having vendors and doing some work out. And I always say to people like listen, borrowers, we'll give them 60 to 90 days from the time we buy the note to get back on track. But then if they're not going to work with us, we have a come to Jesus meeting and then it's time to put it with the professional. Let the attorneys start the foreclosure process or wrap that up and then it's a business. Exactly. I don't run a charity. I donate to them is what I like to do.

Right. I love it, love it. Okay, so you talked about and I think you're being a little conservative just a little bit bit on those, on those returns because I've seen some really fantastic numbers that are possible and executed. So I've been in the business for a little while and using it on my own investment and some of my clients that we put these investments in place and again they can be very, very, very hands off, just reaping the rewards on it. But one of the things that I like about it is it's not Just one way of getting out of this situation. Right. It's not just, okay, you're going to foreclose on them. Right. There's at least when you're, when you're creating the opportunity and doing your due diligence. My skill set tells me that you probably want to have four or five exit strategies. When you're looking at this. Right. What are some of those exit strategies? What do they look like?

So there's a total of 10 different exit strategies. If buying non performance, I'm going to double down there. But what you have, it kind of correlates down to really three to four for the most part. One is if you get an amazing deal, you could flip that deal to another investor and make a quick wholesale fee. Some people don't talk about that, but you're buying something you get under contract, you could flip it off to somebody else, make a quick five grand or a grand. It just depends on the assets. So people forget that you can wholesale notes just like wholesaling property. The second one which is the most attractive is getting the bar in some sort of repayment plan, getting back on track. That's one of the number one things that we try to get them back on track through. Either just start paying on time again, we'll worry about the year behind later on or if you need some help, okay, let's look at maybe a potential loan mod or trial payment plan to help you be able to afford this in a budget, in your budget that makes sense. Okay. They can't work with you on some sort of budget. Then we'll look to either a, do a short sale on the property, help them sell the property on short sale or if they won't work with us, we'll offer up or they can't short sale, we'll do a deed in lieu or a cash for keys where we'll even give them money to walk away. Right. That won't work. Then there's the legal process of foreclosing, taking the property back and either a selling it at the foreclosure auctions or like I said, taking the property back and turn it into a rental owner financing or selling it on the MLS as a fixed up property.

So you just gave us a whole bunch of ideas that you can look at when you're looking at investing this property. You could say, oh, I want quick cash. Oh, I want to create an income stream. Oh, I want to put on, you know, I want to, I want to have something that's going to last me or build a Portfolio of rental units that I want. I mean you could run these deals any way you want. And there's a really robust economy for these kind of notes out in the world. Once you, once you pull back the curtain and you start, you know, looking for these deals, you can see that there's a huge economy for it. So it's not something that you're going to be quote stuck with and you can't get out because there's plenty of buyers and sellers out there that you can help transact with these kinds of properties. And the potential, the income potential on them are beautiful and could be, could be, talk to your tax advisor but could be very tax friendly for you.

Yeah, and that's the thing too is we are, you know, when you forgive balances, that becomes a write off for you off your bottom line. So if I forgive somebody 25 grand, I can write it off. If I'm buying something at a discount and then I get them in a trial payment for a year. That's going to be a long term capital gains, which is great. I like long term, I don't like short term, but we still write short term. But here's the thing, I don't ever look as taxes being a bad thing. If I'm paying taxes, that usually means I made a whole lot of money after my accountant looked at it. So that's usually a good thing. One of the biggest things I think that gets often overlooked here is being empathetic and working with the borrowers. Because if you look at what's going on the market with so many people being out of work and struggling to make their mortgage payments, it's not what we see is going to happen. This next year is not going to be as extreme as it was 12 years ago. There's a lot of people that just need some help. They just need a handout of some sort. Not a handout, but a hand to help them out of the hole they're in.

A help.

Yeah, exactly. So I always approach it that if I can help keep a person in their house, not only I helping that borrower, I'm helping their neighbors, I'm helping the rest of the people on the street, the people in the zip code and the people in the city. Because if you have a property that does go to foreclosure, that depreciate, you know, that tightens the market up. Depreciation of the values. Exactly. So you're really saving the values by trying to work to keep the borrowers in the houses. And so that's the thing we always look at is, hey, how can we help people stay in their houses? We've got some amazing stories of borrowers that lived in a house for 18 years, raised their kids, took out a loan, then they got sick or the husband had a heart attack trying to stay, you know, trying to do a loan mod for four years and their mortgage had been sold from bank to bank to bank for a while. Well, we step in, bought it at a big discount and see these letters, you know, the hardship letters that these borrowers are writing into the bank. We see all that stuff and see that they've lived there forever. Like, okay, let's get on the phone, let's talk with them or have your third party vendor do it. Negotiating something that makes sense in 30 minutes and seeing the stress relief of the borrowers. We've had people cry when they show up to our attorney's offices to sign the docs for a loan mod because they needed some help. They weren't bad people, just a bad thing happened to them.

And you mean that you're smaller and you're the business owner, you have some flexibility and if you price the deal properly, you've got some flexibility in the range of what you're going to do. And there's always. Real estate is almost always in a rising market, Even if it's 3 or 4 or 5%, rarely does it go tank down like we did in 2008 and never return. I mean, markets and economies will come back up. And if you've got the time and stomach to hold on, that property is going to be worth something. The people are going to sell it sometime. They're going to have to pay you off at some way. This is a legal document, by the way. Yeah, you're, you're, you're, you're, it's tender, it's, it's, you're going in and you have rights. So it's not like you're just giving money, you're giving some money for a big benefit somewhere down the road and you have rights on that property. So I think it's a, it's, it's not, it's not as scary as people make it, I think. And that's it. With a little bit of education, right. And a little bit of foundation and systems that programs like you have, you could be a very confident and conscious buyer in these avenues. And again, the reason why I'm bringing you onto the show is that stock market, The S&P 500, that's not the only game in town and we know it's kind of high right now and it's been on a high for a while. So chances are it's not going to be high forever. But you know, people need to live in a home. People need homes. And it's a great source for some of your money and it's a great tool for business owners to leverage some of their profits in a way that can increase their profit, maybe take some income off tax table for that year and do some really cool strategies that maybe you didn't think of because you didn't have the right kind of advisors on your team. So that's, that's the big point. I wanted to come with here. So talk to me a little bit more. What else should listeners know about buying mortgage notes as an investment?

It's not something that's brand new is the biggest thing. Buying notes has been around for centuries. There's a lot of great movies out there if you like movies. The Big Short, Too big to fail. Even Field of Dreams is about Ray and his mortgage on his farm being sold to the bank or to the investment group. So something to think about there. Most people don't realize that, but here's the thing. You as a note investor aren't like a real estate investor. We're more so like a general manager of a business. You're directing people, you're directing your vendors to do the jobs. I'm a big Dallas Cowboys fan and while we're not having a great season, I say we're like the Jerry Jones. We're dictating who's coaching, we're dictating who's swinging hot dogs and popcorn. You don't see Jerry out there in a little beanie saying ice cold beer everybody. No, we as the note investors, we are basically like a journal manager. We're dictating the things that we're doing are finding the deals. And there plenty of lending institutions out there that have paper for sale. There's also some different websites that you can find from investors like me and other fund selling. You don't have to have a ton of capital to get started with this.

Right, we can talk about that. What's the entry point?

So depending on where you're buying. Cause every. Some markets like a house in Ohio is a whole lot different than a house in Oceanside. Okay.

Right. Southern California is not a discounted horizon here.

No, no, no, exactly. But you've. The biggest thing is it's all about leverage. So like if I take, I bought a note on three condos on the beach, right in San Diego, right between Pacific and Mission beach. I paid 2.5 million for these $3 million plus condos. We flipped them, we had somebody else's money we used and we made a couple hundred thousand dollars on that deal. So you don't even need to have your own money. There's plenty of private investors out there that have private capital sitting on the sidelines making nothing. But if you're going to use your own capital, a lot of people get started at 25, 50, $60,000, buying one or two, maybe three assets in different parts of the country. Get your feet wet. As I always say, people learn the business, educate yourself. There's a lot of great information online at different podcasts and our website, stuff like that. But look, we had a lot of people start off, like I said, 50 grand. They'll buy two, maybe three assets, they'll learn their systems, they'll learn the right things to do, how to break down the due diligence before we're pulling the trigger, and then they'll get rocking and rolling and they're well on their way.

Well, the great thing that you brought up there is that you can be the investor yourself or you can just be the money. So if you don't want to do all the hard work, like you mentioned, there's plenty of people that have their cash or their investments are not really performing the way they'd like and they want to use that money towards something else. You could actually be that person too and say, hey, I got 50,000. And you know what, you can use it in your retirement account too in a self directed ira. But if you just want to be the money and get the return, that's an avenue for you as well. But you can start as little as 20, 30,000. You don't need to have the millions of dollars that people have. And I think that's, that's the entry point that I like. You can get your feet wet, you can start to see if it's the real deal. And the time horizon is relatively short. I know I tell myself I need two years. And this is money I don't need in two years because it's not as liquid as you would like it can be. But two year time horizon, that's pretty darn short. To see a potentially double digit return.

On your money, well, it beats the heck out of a certificate of disappointment. Making like 1/10 of 1% and you gotta lock up for five years. Or if you're gonna make 1%, you lock up 100 grand for an extended period of time. The bank is taking, they're glad to pay that 1%. Cause they're lending that money out, making 6 to 18 and arbitraging the funds and making 300% return on investment for you. They're investing in paper, they're lending money out. You can take your money out of that certificate of disappointment or if you've got a 401k that's now a 101k because the values have dropped everything, move it, like you said, into a self directed IRA account and use that money to either fund other investors at an above average return or use it to invest in paper as well at above average return. Oh yeah, very.

I think that's the trick. I know. Cha Ching, Cha Ching. That's what I like about it. Now again, you know the disclosures, this isn't for everybody. But you know what, if you've got money that's not working as well as it should, this is a great tool for some of that and I would encourage people to learn about it. So speaking of learning about it, Scott, where can listeners find out more about you and your programs?

Yeah, the easiest spot is to go to our website, the main mothership website, weclosenotes.com, you'll find a schedule of educational classes. You'll find more about our different podcasts that we host on a regular basis with content and you know, we've got so much available online for you to do. You can always check out our YouTube channel at WeCloseNotes TV as well. I'm a big believer that if you give people the right tools and the education, they can make the right decision and go out and take it. If you decide you want to sign up for one of our trainings, I'm going to even throw in something a little bit suite for you. Sign up for one of our classes and use the code marcia. You'll get 50% off of our either our one day classes or our three day intense workshop. So 50% off.

I love it. I've now become a coupon. I love it. M A R C I A Marcia. That's your coupon code. I'm digging that. That's cool. Okay, well great. I know that. You know, honestly listeners, this is something that I put into my advanced strategies with my, with my one on one clients. When we get those profits rolling. This is just one of the many tools that we can do. But it is a fantastic opportunity for those that are open to learning a little bit and have money that is not performing as well as they'd like it to because non performing money or dead money is not happy money. We want it to be happy and working and performing and creating income for us because that's, that's what we need to make the business run. That's what we need to make our lives run. And it's a perfect even retirement vehicle for later on. So I encourage you to check it out. So thank you, Scott. This has been awesome listeners. I hope you have found an idea or two to put into your business that will help you become more profitable. I know this is one tool. So considering what has happened to businesses this year, you know, we're all in this crazy Covid crap. Now more than ever, it is important to create your own profit plan so that you can have a thriving business. And I've got six easy action tips that you can put into those business your business right now that will make a significant impact. Go check it out at my site. I've got the report for you there. It's called Fail proof biz. That's biz.com and you'll download my free report. And I know it's going to get your mind thinking on different ideas that you can do to strengthen your business. And Scott and I would love to hear your questions or feedback and even ideas for future shows. So please subscribe and comment on today's podcast because we want to hear that you're loving this or what ideas you've gotten out of it. And as always, you can catch profit with a plan on any of your favorite podcast players. And we're looking forward to more great, profitable information on next week's show. So until then, make your plans and profit with them. Thank you, Scott.

Thank you.