The Foreclosure Fix: Escaping Foreclosure with DJ Olojo

Foreign this is the no Closer show where you get the latest developments in distressed note investing and learn the secrets of how you can control millions of dollars worth of property For Panties on the dollar. Get educated and entertained by someone who has closed thousands of deals and lives to support you in achieving the same. Now here's your host CEO of We Close Nodes, Scott Carson Hey Real estate investors, this is Scott Carson. I'm known across the country as the Note Guy and I've been an active note investor focused primarily on the niche of non performing notes, distressed mortgage notes on residential commercial properties for almost 20 years now. My company is we close notes.com and I know there's a lot of different things when it comes to the note world. Are you buying performing notes? Are you buying owner finance notes? Are you buying institutional debt? Like I would focus on Are you buying first seconds contract for each There's a lot of questions and it can be very confusing about what you can or cannot do. So one of the great things that we've hosted for the last couple of years that we do on just about a regular monthly basis is we host our one day class called Note Weekend. If you go to noteweekend.com you can register for our free three and a half hour class. We'll talk to you and share with you how you find fun and flip non performing notes. And yes, you can buy non performing notes from banks, hedge funds and a variety of different hard money lenders out there for your own portfolio. No, you don't have to have millions of dollars to dive into the non performing note game. We've got students that have bought plenty of deals with 2530 grand getting their ball rolling using their self directed IRA who are tired of dealing with toilets, tennis trash desks, tired of battling contractors and GCs to get properties rehabbed. We all know the market is changing and while it may not be like 2008, 9 and 10 again, it we do see a lot of distressed debt out there on both the residential and the commercial side. So if you're thinking about diving into the note game, becoming a note investor, a lean lord as you'd like to say, versus the landlord. Or you just want to figure out what it is about the sexy side of real estate in the note space. Well, check it out. Noteweekend.com doesn't cost you anything. We host it live usually the first or second Saturday of each month. You can go today. Register at the website noteweeking.com Register for the next live class we host. You'll get sent A replay to the previous class so you can start learning about the note business today. No questions asked, no credit card needed. This is a great way for you to dip your toes in the water and see if it's warm because I guarantee going through art three one day class. You want to dive into the deep end and become a note investor. So check it out noteweekend.com you can also go to our website. We close notes.com check out our podcast, check out our YouTube number one YouTube channel. We are here to help support you. Whether you're experienced investor or you're brand new investing Note weekend is a great place for you to get the ball rolling. People often say we cover more in our three hour class than most people cover in their three day class. So check it out. Love to have you be part of our note family but get signed up today@noteweekend.com thanks and have a great day. This meeting is good morning, good afternoon and good evening everybody. Hey, welcome to this episode of the no Closure show. As always, Scott Carson jacked up to be here with you today and I'm really excited to have a buddy on here, somebody who is just got a, a passion for helping people. He's, you know, you walk in a room and his energy just explodes out of him. All right. He's a real estate investor, realtor. He's also the podcast hopes of the foreclosure f and the managing director of ASO Custom Homes LLC. He's got over 15 years of real estate investment experience. He also likes investing in second liens, junior liens which we haven't anybody on to talk about. Junior means in a while. He's also, we're really excited about, he's got a book coming out. We'll talk more about it. I won't take any wave of thunder. Who am I talking about? I'm talking about the Atlanta based badass DJ Aloho joining us here this morning. So Alojo, sorry I had the hoe there because you said that earlier. We're talking about that.

Hey man, you know, you live in Texas so you know, you get a pass for sure, man. So that's right.

Because the day is like styling your life, dj.

Absolutely.

Obviously. And we had a chance to catch up in New Orleans at fincon and we, you know, we'd exchanged a few emails and back to stuff. But it was great to create some talking with you and you had me on your show a few weeks back. But man, big things going on in DJs world, huh?

Hey man, it's been a. It's been a great start to 2024. The new book is. Is out the foreclosure fix. 12 steps to beat the bank. 12 steps to escape foreclosure. Beat the bank and turn your property into a profitable asset. And so, so grateful to be on your cl. On your show today and grateful to talk with your audience. Man, how you doing?

I'm good, man. 2024 is off rock and rolling. You know, we. We always crack up because people always ask, oh, what new things? I'm like, man, we're just gonna keep trading, keep buying notes, keep teaching people how to do it, and keep rocking around with the podcast episodes. But you have. Let's share your backstory a little bit. How'd you get into where you're at today? What. What excited you about real estate? What were you doing prior to becoming an investor and your journey of keen state on your go?

I know, right? It's been. It's been a little while, man. I like your Spanish, though, man. It's muy buenos. Anyway, no, man, when I left undergrad, I was. I came out of college as a management. As a management consultant. So my first job out of college, I was a management consultant and started consulting with hospital systems on human capital management stuff. And I was on boats, planes, and trains. And with that company, traveled around the country, both in D.C. nebraska, went to grad school. And why, while I was in Nebraska, I had an opportunity to come back to Atlanta with the same company. And I came back, and I was still doing a consulting thing, but one of my buddies had started kind of investing in real estate, and he started investing. Investing at the courthouse steps. And so he was in grad school, and I was a consultant, and he was investing in real estate. And so we kind of just teamed up, and he. He was like, hey, you know, you can come down here and learn it from me. So I was like, hey, I'm about to learn it. And so I started buying houses on the courthouse steps, and that's how I got started in real estate. Like I said about 15 years ago, and at that time, it was the. The bubble had popped, and it was. It was slim. It was slim pickings of. Of investors who were new because everybody just didn't want real estate anymore. They were just like, I'm licking my wounds. And I was in a position where I was so green, I didn't know what I didn't know. Right. And so it was a benefit because I was able to grow up in real estate in A market that was very challenging where I couldn't go get a hard money loan because there was no hard money lenders lending. I had to, you know, make it happen. I had to ask friends and family, had to use my credit cards. And I wouldn't necessarily recommend that today, but at the time it was the, the way we were buying real estate. And fast forward to, you know, over a decade later. I then stopped just doing basic traditional real estate and I started doing not only day to day real estate, but non performing and performing loans. And that link of both of those together of being the person who has talked to tons of people in foreclosure, being the person who has bought your house, being a person who's tried to get you to sell your house and then switching and being the bank and saying, hey, I'm trying to get you to pay. I want to modify, I want to do something. And just like you hear nothing really gave me the inspiration not only to write the book, but for the passion for those people who are facing a challenging time and really don't know what to do and who have their head stuck in the sand.

Yeah, there's a lot of folks up there that had still stuck in the sand, both the residential and the commercial side of things. And I think back to when you got started in 2009. I remember being in Atlanta and how rough that market was. The, the amount, you know, there's a lot of foreclosures. There are a lot of people hurting. I mean, it's. Georgia is the second fastest foreclosure state only to Texas. You know what I mean?

Yeah.

It leads into some opportunity. But I can remember, like, I remember the, the brand new shiny bank. Was it the bank of America building that was built there in downtown Atlanta, you know, the big tower. And then it ended up selling on a note deal at like 30 cents on the dollar of what it would cost to build it.

Yep, it was, it was absolutely crazy and it was really interesting. You say that though, when you talk about how fast it is to foreclose in Georgia. It's a really fast foreclosure state. And one of the things that I talk about in the book and one of the things that has always stayed in my mind while I'm in this business, was one of my first times, the foreclosure auction. I had never been there. I was just going out there as a spectator and I didn't know what to expect. You know, I thought it would be, you know, that big old auction style dude with a Cowboy hat, saying bye bye. So, you know, I thought it'd be something like that. Right. And it was, it was nothing like that. It was, you know, attorneys just calling out properties and people buying and paying with cashiers checks. But on this specific day, there was the family running around. And I remember it, it was an African American family and the dad was just going around and they were basically begging people not to buy their house. And they were saying, please don't buy my house. If you buy this house at 1, 2, 3, I still live there. Don't buy it. It's not a good house, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it just really made me frustrated because in my mind I was trying to really figure out who was at fault. Was it the bank? Was it them? Who was it? But it was just a really sad sight to see. And I like to say that's the only time I ever saw that was the first time I saw it. I've seen it many times. And it, it's just, it's just really jarring and it's really crazy.

Yeah, there's. I mean now in Georgia, do you have to have all cash or all cashiers check at the, at the bidding at the auction?

Yep. Your full certified funds same like you're here in Austin.

Okay, great. And does it happen daily? There's happen once a month or how often does it happen on a monthly.

Basis in Georgia, it's always the first Tuesday of the month, rain or snow.

The same thing as in Austin, Texas. Okay, great.

Yeah.

And so that's the thing is when you see that stress, you see the other side of the dollar, as I like to say, the other side of the transaction of folks losing their house, you know, and bad things happen to good people all the time, especially back then. It was not people's fault that their values dropped 30, 40%, you know, that we had the meltdown, the subprime meltdown, you know, stuff like that. Now I do say that people have to take responsibility for the mortgages that they sign off on. And if they do, shouts, you know, I mean, it's in center. But there's also. There was a lot of fraud that was taking place back then. And there was also a lot of unscrupulous folks out there that were creating loans that people shouldn't have signed on that didn't have any, any, any need to be in those type of loans out there. You know, I remember being a mortgage broker and leaving the mortgage business in 2008 and dealing with foreclosures and stuff. Like that and investing in fixing flips and stuff like that. We got started roughly about the same time, two years apart. But you know, it's always, it always looks like, well, that's the other side of the transit. That's the person who's losing their house, that's the person that I'm making money on who's had a bad thing in regards to their losing their house and facing foreclosure and dealing with eviction that we're going to be making money on. And you never want to see that, obviously, but it happens. It is the nature of the business in a lot of cases. And you try to help people as much as you can to help them about a bad situation. That's what I love about what you're doing with the book and want to help, you know, million people out there avoid foreclosure.

No, and I think that that's the, that's the, that's the essence of, of the business. Right. You know, when I talk to note investors across the country at conferences and you know, your students and things like that, there are very few people who say, yeah, I just want the house back. Right? And, and typically when they do want the house back, it's in a situation where it's a heck em or something like that. And you know, you're trying to get the house back, but most of the time people want the payment stream, they want them to re perform. And so I don't, I don't think that our industry gets enough credit for, you know, trying to make work, create workouts and things like that. But most people don't want the house, they just want the payments. And the more homeowners understand that, I think the more you can get to a better space and a better solution.

Yeah, I totally agree that. And it all comes down to education, letting homeowners know what their options are, what they can do. I mean, I was just talking with a lady down in Corpus Christi, Texas a few weeks ago and she's got a house. There's a vacant house down from my mom's house, right. And I'm like, oh. I'm like, oh, you know, maybe I'll buy this house. Look, it's, you know, vacant, needs some work. I tracked down the bar. She lives there, doesn't live at the house more. It's vacant. It's with a bank, big military bank out of San Antonio, which we won't name any names, but she hasn't lived there for a couple years. And she's like, well, they keep Saying I was like, well, what do you want to do? She's well, they wouldn't do a short sale. It needs a lot of work. I tried it, you know, I said, well, you know, if they're not going to deal with me, you know, you can just give the house back. And she's like, what are you talking about? They keep saying they're going to foreclose on me. I said, well, they could foreclose on you. It's Texas. Why they haven't doesn't mean, I mean, you've been out of it for two years. Why they haven't foreclosed? I don't think they're going to do it next month. They've been done for 24 months. But just go ahead and deed the property back. Go get you a deed here, I'll send you a sample deed. You can sign it, notarize it and ship it into your lender or go file it yourself so that you're no longer on. And she's like, I didn't know I could do that. I'm like, yeah, you can do that. It's totally your right to do, you know. And sometimes she was amazed, like, why are they trying to buy the property? Well, yeah, it was, but if the bank's not going to work with us, then let me at least help you out of the bad situation.

You know what I mean, man? And that's what it is. There's a lack of education for homeowners because you got to remember, most people aren't like us. They haven't done hundreds or maybe even your case, thousands of real estate transactions. They have done maybe one to two transactions in their life when they bought their house. And so for them, it's like, I have options, you know, I don't have to get out. I can file bankruptcy. Well, I don't have to move out until after the foreclosure sale. Like, you know, they're just like, they're, I can get cash for keys. Like, you know, there's all these different things they just don't know about. And you know, our goal is to educate them and inform them and, and help them make the best decision for them in that, in that, in that scenario.

Now, when you were getting started there, do you remember your first interaction with a distressed borrower or walking into a foreclosed home or working with a homeowner? Tell me about that first interaction and what was the biggest eye opening thing from it?

So I'll be honest with you, I don't remember the first One, because when we first started, we didn't want to interact with homeowners at all. So if the house was not vacant, we didn't even bid on it.

Okay. Okay.

And so we were. We were, like, nervous, and we were both green. And I just was like, yeah, you know, I don't want to. You know, I don't know what the eviction process was like. I was. I was a rookie. I was a newbie.

That's fair. That's totally fair. Yeah.

Yeah. But the first time I remember actively kind of reaching out and talking to homeowners, you know, pre foreclosure and talking to them, there's a couple of different insights that came to mind. One was the foreclosure creates the urgency that was never there. And these people knew for a long time that they hadn't been making payments. They knew that something was going to happen, but it wasn't until a foreclosure date was set and they had only a couple weeks that they then were saying, hey, I want to sell or I want to do something. And so that stuck with me because it created the urgency that they needed. And so if you are on the lender side and you are saying, why aren't these people responding to my letters? Why aren't these people picking up the phone call and calling me back? Why aren't they calling my servicer? You have to take the necessary steps as a lender to protect your investment, to protect your investors, and walk down that process all the way to the foreclosure. I can't tell you how many times we have got a negotiation or a deal done a few days before the foreclosure sale. That creates the pressure for homeowners who have their head stuck in the sand. The next thing I will say is it really opened my eyes to the plight of people in today's society. I think a lot of times we walk by every day and we think that people's lives are similar to ours, right? That they're going well, that things are going good. And every day you are reminded that there is somebody who is just one bad thing away from their life being altered forever. And that could be a. That could be a medical diagnosis. That could be a kid or a loved one passing away. That could be a job loss. And so it gives you. It gives me the grace to always say, all right, this person's going off on me. They're upset, they're mad, but if I was in their situation, I'd be doing the same thing. They have a reason to be that way. And I think that that is the other eye opener that being in this business has allowed me to understand is, is about the humanity and compassion that you need to have. As somebody who is in a better position at this season of my life than the person I'm talking to. Right. And so the last thing I'll say I've learned is that people will tell you a whole bunch of crap and they will lie to you with the smile on their face. And you need to be able to, to listen, learn and move forward accordingly. Right. And so with, in dealing with borrowers, when people tell me something and they say they're going to do something, I take their word for it. So if a borrower says, hey, I'm going to look at filing bankruptcy or I'm going to call you back in two days, I'm taking your word for it and I'm listening to you and I'm waiting for you to do what you said you're going to do. And the moment you stop doing what you say you're going to do, that's the moment we just, you know, move forward with our normal processes. And so those three things were the three eye openers. When I started dealing with people at volume that, that I really began to understand. It's just, you know, they, they, they help color my life now because every day I'm grateful for what I have. I'm grateful for the opportunities and I'm grateful that I'm able to help people, but I'm also grateful that I'm not the one in the situation.

Yeah, that's, that's so true. Money issues will make you do interesting things and being stress of losing your home, it makes people grasp at straws. It's almost like the, you know, they'll do anything to try to extend that deadline or kick the can down the road another week or another month. You know, we've, we foreclosed on so many different assets and then sometimes it's been friendly that we had to do that. We worked with the borrower on. Other times it's been, you know, a little bit of animosity there for the borrower. Listen, we've given you the opportunity. We gave you get out of jail card three or four times. Times you said you never followed up on your word of what you're going to do. So no, I'm not going to sit here and delay this anymore. You know, you know, I have, I run a business. You having a mortgage is part of that business and stuff like that. You're not going to pay, you know, pay, you know, stay, you know what I mean? Are you just go ahead, dj.

Well, I said, you know, one of the biggest things that I've learned going through the real estate process and being a real estate investor first before I was on the note side, is that it's always great when you can come to a win win with a borrower. And if you are in a position where you can do more for the homeowner or more for the borrower or more for the seller. Right? But in every transaction, anytime I give a concession, that concession is taken away from my company and the people who I have to feed and the people who I have to, to who I owe, you know, their, their paychecks to and things like that. And so I always keep that in mind because it has to be fair for all parties. It can't just be one sided and you can definitely do good. But at the end of the day, you have to also understand that this is a business. And in running a business, if my doors close, you know, only my daughters are the ones starving, right. And so I need to make sure that we run a rerun. A business is.

So, so you're in line now. You're just buying foreclosure homes there in Fulton county or all around Georgia.

So we buy in Georgia, pretty much 50 miles of Atlanta in every direction. So. And we're a small shop. You know, I, I don't, I'm not, no, I'm not. No, I'm not a huge, large entity or anything like that. We're a small mom and pop shop and we probably do anywhere between, you know, on the, on the house side, anywhere between 12 and 24 deals a year. Right? That's great.

That's awesome, man.

We're consistent.

Don't limit yourself. You only, you need to reach around and do a little pat in the back there. That's pretty good. Because that's the thing, because that's, that's 11 to 23 more than most investors ever do.

No, I appreciate that. But you know, in today's world with everybody, you know, flexing on, on, on all the social medias, I know people are doing 100 deals a month, right? So I was like, you know what?

They may say they're doing 100 deals a month, but with more deals, there's more issues, there's more babysitting, there's more problems. So here's. I was on a podcast yesterday, Better Than Rich, with my buddy Mike Abrametz, and he was Asking that question, what about what do you consider being rich? Is it doing a lot of deals? Like, no, no, it's, it's your life. Everybody has what they consider rich themselves. For some people, they trying to do 100, but I guarantee they're not very happy, you know what I mean? In being a small mom pop shop, I love that. Because you're a boutique firm, you're not, you're able to do a little bit deeper dive, you're a little pickier, which is great because you're not going to get in over your head. Some of the biggest mistakes I made was buying like big portfolios and not being prepared for some of that stuff. And it took a while to get through that stuff. So don't, don't ever discount yourself on that. You're pulling the trigger, which is what most people want to do now. I mean, pulling the trigger here on this stuff. What made you, how did you find the note business? How did you find junior liens? What kind of was that transaction and how did that come about?

DJ and so that's a very interesting transition that, that we got into. We, we were looking at a house on the courthouse steps in Fulton county, and the house was a second or the, the mortgage that was being sold on the steps was a second position mortgage. And it was a nice house in a, in a part of Buckhead. And the opening bid on the house came out way more than what the value would be when you factor in the first mortgage and everything else. So we didn't bid on it. But at the time, my business partner went and looked up who the owner of the second mortgage was. And, you know, we thought it was going to be some big bank or like, you know, bank of America or something like that. And it ended up being some fund. And somehow, some way, he found out who the fund was and he was like, hey. He caught the fund up and said, hey, you know, I think you guys just took back the second mortgage. You know, we'll offer you, I don't know if it was 50,000 or $75,000 to buy the house as is, you won't have to do anything. And, you know, I thought it was a shot in the dark, but I was like, hey, man, try it. And long story short, they sold it to us. And, and you know, it wasn't like, oh, you got to go up the street to bank of America and you got to go through their underwriting process and their due diligence. It was very much like a, Scott, you want to sell this Note. Sure. What are you offering? Let me go back and talk to my, my, my investors. Yeah, we'll sell it. And so I was like, they're not a big institution. They're not that big. It can't be that big. And I think I started going on their website and just trying to do some more due diligence. And that took me down the rabbit hole of like, hey, there's a whole nother industry out here where you are not a huge entity, but you could be a small operation and still own distressed debt or performing debt. And people used to always talk about seller financing and things like that. But at that stage of my investment career, I didn't really have the money to start being a seller finance. I didn't think of myself as like a hard money lender or, you know, when I bought a house, I wanted all my cash. Right now I want, I didn't want payments. I still don't want payments, you know, Exactly.

You got to get that money in to go do some more stuff.

Exactly.

That's the thing people don't realize. Anyway, sorry, we'll go down that rabbit hole later on.

Oh, man. Yes, I was happy. I was happy to make $10,000, you know, on a flip, because I, I was like, that's more than I'm making in my retirement account. So let's go, let's do it again. Let's wash, wash, rinse, and repeat, right? And so, long story short, when we had that. When I had that epiphany of like, there's a whole nother side, I spent the next, you know, few years just trying to pull back the layers of the onion. Because I will say, you know, you talk about a lot. Everybody knows about your show, but in all honesty, this is still very much a hidden gem in, in real estate because so many people are enamored with the actual physical property. They don't think about the paper because they have the same mental blocks that I had because I have to think, you know, you got to be a big bank to be able to own a mortgage. That's who does it. And so once I was able to go through that experience, I just kind of started researching. I found different podcasts like yours. I found different podcasts of other people. I looked on YouTube. I saw there were some books out there, and that just started the whole journey of getting into the note space. And it took me maybe two to three years after that before I actually, you know, started buying some paper or something like that. But I was still active on the Real estate side. And it just lit a fire under me to start really figuring out what was going on on this side of the fence.

So while you're buying for foreclosures to fix and flip and you're getting into some junior liens and some other notes stuff, still working the consulting, the management job. Management consulting job or when did you leave that?

Oh, yeah. So I fast forward, I mean rewind, right. My daughter is about to be 10, so I left right before my daughter was born. So I've been a full time real estate investor for over 10 years. And the reason why I left then was because I was on boats, planes and trains. And thankfully at the time, my wife was a pharmacist. And so I was like, this is my shot. I was like, you know, my wife can pay all the bills, I can be a house husband for a little bit, right. And if it doesn't work out, I'm still gainfully employable. But I didn't want to be on boats, planes and trains because that was going to be my first child. And I was trying to be there, be present if I could. And I just saw the opportunity in real estate and I was like, hey, I'm going to try to make this work. Now in all honesty, would I recommend that for somebody in today's environment? It's a little challenging, a little bit more challenging now. But if you do decide to go that route and go full time and burn the bridges, as they like to say, I would always make sure either you have a large emergency emergency fund that you don't have to touch to operate your business or one spouse. If you have a spouse or a life partner or whatever else, maybe the case is working and can support the household because that makes it a lot easier to achieve the goal. Because the big thing for me is that when I did make $10,000 on a flip, I didn't have to go spend $8,000 to pay my bills and stuff like that. I was able to reinvest that into the business. And so if you do that for, you know, a couple years, then you're in a situation where it's like, well, I actually have a little bit of wind behind me and you can grow. And so that was the benefit for me at that time in that season. So I'm grateful to have a wife who was supportive and it worked out really good for us.

I love that. It's a great story. Now with that conversation with her being a pharmacist and you being in the magical something side, did you guys, you had to say, hey, honey, I got an opportunity here. I think this is a chance to do something different, something I probably enjoy a lot more and be more of a daycare daddy at home in a lot of cases, which is a great thing. Did you guys start putting things in place? You kind of build a six month or one year kind of Runway before you left the job? Or you said, hey, let's just, I'm calling my shot and quitting the job cold turkey and going from there?

No. So, you know, you got to remember, I started about 15 years ago, so I. I had a track record, right? I was doing this for, you know, multiple years, having success, and I was reusing that money just to reinvest and reinvest because I didn't need the money. And so I had a track record, I had success, I had some money. And so when I left one job, you know, on Friday, on Monday, I was at the new job and it was like, you know, cooking, right? Cooking with grease. And so there was no startup process. There was no. Let me figure out, you know, I think I already had rehabs going on, you know, from one to the other. So nothing changed. For me, the biggest thing was that I was just able to focus, you know, 40 plus hours a week on this versus splitting my time between 40 hours and traveling at one job to then, you know, at night trying to, you know, piecemeal this. And I'll be honest with you, at that, at that juncture, it was still a step back, right? Because, you know, I was a management consultant, I had a six figure income. And so, you know, it wasn't pennies, right? But it was a step back that allowed me to take a huge leap forward over the next few years. And that was the big thing. And more than anything else for us, my wife basically was like, hey, look, you quit now and I'm quitting later. Right?

Yeah, there you go. There you go.

And so. So I quit first, but then she later joined us maybe about five years later. And so now we both work together in our business and, you know, she does all the stuff I don't like to do and takes none of the credit, and I do all the fun stuff and get all the credit. So it's a beautiful partnership. I love it.

It's a beautiful partnership. Behind every successful guy, he's an even more patient. Fed up with our woman in a lot of cases.

Absolutely, absolutely. You know, so I think, like, it's funny because I always tell folks like me and my wife, we met in high school though. And I, I tell her I got the better end of the agreement because I, I married you when you or not married you. I met you when you were young and you were still naive. And so now you know, now that you're older and you're smarter, you're already stuck with me. So that's just the way it works. You know what I mean?

As we say, you out kicked your coverage, basically. Nothing wrong with that.

I can't, I can't even play football. That's how bad it is. Right.

Well, that's, that's the beauty of it. Now, I'm sure she's had some thoughts on the foreclosure side of people being foreclosed on, stuff like that. What's. What, what's was her maybe her initial thought about that or her thoughts Because I know sometimes it can come because women are happen to be a little bit more. And this is not everybody. I'm not trying to pigeonhole anything, but they're more worried about the nest to make sure everything's safe and especially when you have kids, besides you guys being willy nilly and you know, we're about gamblers when we're single. In a lot of cases you've got a family to worry about to support and take care of, right?

No, absolutely. So my wife's whole mentality around just our business in general comes from the side of having seen all the stuff that we have experienced in this business. Her mindset is like, I never want to be in that situation. And so her mindset is like, we need to do everything we can possible to avoid that situation. And that's, you know, living within our means. That's having passive income when you think about notes and you think about rental property. And so for my wife, she, she doesn't really even care about the flipping business. She said, I don't really care if you ever flip another house. Right. Her big thing was like she wanted enough passive income from either rental properties or note investments or whatever that, you know, we could still live a modest life and nothing would have to change for us that we can still support. And so she definitely brings a level of conservativeness and a level of being grounded to the picture that, you know, somebody like me, you know, I'm always trying to go a thousand miles an hour and I'm trying to, you know, I'll risk it all right? And she's like, like, no, you're not risking anything besides, you know, besides the quarters that are in your pocket, you know, and so, and so that's what she brings to the table. And it's a really great balance because, you know, like I said, she, she, she's, she's a bean counter. Right. She, she can tell you what tenants have not paid. She can tell you, you know, who, who has not paid their, their note this month and everything else. Right. Which is really important to the way in which we work. But that was her thing. She just really want, she likes security. She wanted to be in a position where no, no matter what happened, she didn't want to be the person in foreclosure, seeing and experiencing the things that we've seen people experience.

Right, Right. No, it totally makes a lot of sense. Now let's, let's go back to the seconds a little bit. Kind of retract a little bit here on the conversation there for you. So you bought your first second behind that. If you have you bought a bunch of seconds, are you, I mean, you've looked at a lot. I know we all look at a ton of them and stuff like that. But what would you say has been your, your cup of tea when it comes to seconds? You have a buy box that you like a few states that you like more. So.

Well, yeah. So, you know, if I said what my buy box is and what my favorite type of second mortgage is. My favorite type of second mortgage is the second mortgage that the seller thinks is second mortgage, but it's really a first mortgage. That is my favorite type. Right. You know what I mean? You, you come across those every blue moon, but you know, it doesn't happen too often. But that's my favorite type of second mortgage. But you know, in my career I've probably done about, you know, north of 50 note transactions. So I'm not a huge, I'm not a huge player in this space either. But north of 50 note transactions and they've ranged from, I think the largest UPB I bought was over like a couple like 200 some thousand dollars in UPB, all the way down to, I think I just bought something that was like at $5,000 upb here recently. Right. And so it ranges huge. Hugely. And typically I like personally for my strategy and where I'm at in my investment career, I typically am never in one note for more than $50,000. Right. So. And typically I like to even keep that north, I mean south of that to be more like 25,000. And the reason why is when I was learning seconds and I learned from folks like Bill McCafferty, Rob Haitha, and I still learn from guys like you. And I learned from guys like who else? Who else? Who else do I learn.

For? Quan as well?

I've not learned well when I say I've listened to Quan's podcast, but I haven't learned from him directly. We've actually done some trades together. I bought from him before, but I've never went through his program or anything. But Bill McCraft, Bill McCafferty in particular, I learned a lot from him.

Yeah.

And one of the things that he taught me and when I was working with him is he basically was like, you know, with second position notes, basically you buy three and he was like, you know, one you're gonna lose money on, one you're gonna break even on, and one you're gonna do very, very well on. And so that model in my head has always stuck with me because when you're buying second position, you're buying junior liens. Right. And the advantage of buying the junior liens is one, if you are a small investor or you don't want to deploy a lot of capital, you can find notes that you can actually buy in the range in which fits your financial desires. The other side about it is that as a junior lien holder, I don't really check the taxes. I don't really check the other things. Like I'll check to see if they're paid. But typically the first mortgage holder is the one keeping an eye on all that stuff which, which helps you. And so it's one less thing to worry about. And then the other part that I've seen on the second liens is that typically you can get a higher yield because you're buying them at a slightly better discount. But then also if you modify them or things like that, you can really get higher to like the 10% plus range on your, on your interest rates because of the fact that you as a lender want them to kind of refinance this debt out sooner rather than later. And so you don't. You want to give them an incentive and a reason to refi you out. And so that's been the benefit of the junior lien space. And I really enjoy it. I do still buy first mortgages every blue moon, but typically when I buy first, I'm buying first performing. And the mortgages that I bought that are first position, I still like to be in that same range. So it's hard to find those type of notes.

Yeah, you're talking the $50,000 range or below for my.

Yeah, for my purchase price, like upb is probably under a hundred thousand. But then you know the range of purchase price. Yeah, 50k below.

Then we need to talk because I could show you how to find those definitely. Right. Twice on Sunday. Let's talk about. But let's. Okay, so I love that you use, you've learned strategies, you're applying it any, any particular states that you like more the seconds than the first in or you're ambivalent. Just as long as it's not like the, the communist states of California or something like that.

Matt. So you know I love our fast foreclosure non judicial states. Those are always the best. But in all honesty I have seen that you can get a better discount in states that are a little bit tougher. And so I have some New York files right now, I got some New Jersey files right now. I got some PA files right now. I got some Illinois files right now. You know what I mean? I have some tough states but you can get great discounts on them. And so I like my fast foreclosure states but for the most part I am yield oriented or IRR oriented. Right. So if I know I can get a significantly higher return, I don't mind waiting two years for that return because the money I'm using for this is specified for it.

Now you're using your own funds or raising capital for your deals these days.

So I'm only using my own. Well on the note investing side I'm only using my own funds and for the most part we use our retirement account funds. So we, we like this, we have self directed solo 401ks and stuff like that. And so we use notes are perfect for that because I can have third party management with the asset manager with, with the servicer. It's clean. I'm not on any real estate. So we really like it. So that's primarily how we invest in notes. On the residential real estate side we, you know, we use lenders all the time so.

Sure, sure makes sense. Now are you, I gotta ask you, you got an ESA for the kids, Self directed esa, putting their money, their retirement fund or college education funds to work for man.

We don't have a self directed esa. We have, we have the self directed hsa. Right. Our goal though. And my kids are, are what I should, I should know their ages, right?

One's at 10, I think, right?

Yeah, yeah, no, they're, they're 6 and 9. They'll be 10 and 7 this year. Right. And so our goal is like my 10 year old, I think she's Smart enough and old enough and looks legit enough to now get paid a sal for licking envelopes and stamps and stuff like that. And so we'll probably get a Roth going for her this year and start that process to. To help build her Roth. And, you know, before you know it, she'll be a lender, you know, on somebody's property here shortly, so.

Right, exactly. Well, that's smart. I mean, that's. That's. That's the great thing. That's what you want to do. And you've got the things that I have to, once again, patch in the back 50 notes, 50 seconds, and stuff like that. That's a great. That's actually. That's more than most people, you know. So if I can tell you anything, be a little more proud of your experience, dj, because you're rocking. You're kicking ass and taking names. You may not think so that's good. You're humble, you know, but, you know, you got some flash to you, buddy. Don't. Don't be. Don't. Don't sell yourself short, man.

Hey, man, as my wife. As I tell my wife, these bow ties ain't cheap, so I gotta keep working hard, man.

I love that that's really become part of your brand, though, and it hasn't, because every time I've seen you, you've always been wearing a bow tie. It's kind of your. Like your calling thing, right?

Well, yeah, man. So, you know, my. I was once told that, you know, I have a face for radio, and so I had to give people something else to look at. And so by doing that, you know, the bow tie is just one of those things that's become my signature, man. And so I have. I have a. I have a good collection. I think I have over 100 at this point, man.

Very nice.

The goal is to have more notes. And I have bow ties, though.

There we go. Well, we got it. We got to work with that a little bit there to help you out there. Now, let's talk about the book. First of all, I'm all the foreclosure fix. 12 Steps to Avoid Foreclosure. I'm probably butchering that, but I had it pulled up here a second ago. Yeah, yeah. 12 steps to beat the bank, Escape foreclosure, and turn your property into a profitable asset. That's awesome. Now, out of the 12 steps, first of all, how long did it take you to write the book and what was your process for writing it?

Well, so it was really. It's a really Good question. You asked, right? And I never really wanted to write the book. And so for me, this is a conversation had with folks numerous, numerous times. And so I've had this conversation with folks over a thousand times in my career. And so I didn't want to write the book. But what happened one day is that my wife heard me talking to a homeowner on the phone and she was like, I'm not sure if you notice, but when you're talking to these homeowners, your, your voice changes, right? She was like, she was like, you get excitable, like, you start pacing, you start walking around and stuff like that. And she was like, you know, you should, you should, you should try to not write. She didn't say write the book, but she was like, you should just kind of be mindful of that. Right? In a good way. Right. You know, it's cup filling is bucket filling. And so that just led me down a path where it was like, you know, how do I create more opportunities to have this conversation without having the conversation? And so I was like, I got to write it down. And so I just began to start the process. So writing the book was probably a two year journey, but it wasn't because it took that long to come up with the steps. It was because it took that long to be able to figure out how to make a layperson understand what we already know. Because we've been in the industry, we live it, we breathe it, we talk about it every day. And so it took a couple of years to write and it was just the project I did on the side and at nights and things like that. But it really has become a labor of love and something that I'm proud of and something that I hope, you know, my kids will read and say, oh, my dad actually tried to help people when he was here. And so that was, that's a, that's a good thing.

Well, that's, that's, it's phenomenal. It's definitely we, especially your background, my background, stuff like that. When you're in the industry longer than a year and you've closed more than one deal in a lot of cases, you've got a great experience and a wealth of knowledge to draw from and so much knowledge that people just don't know about. I mean, you're, you. We're smarter than 99.9 of those people out there. A lot of times smarter than the folks at the bank too, because they're just paycheck people showing up for a, you know, paycheck day in doubt, and they're only going to regurgitate what the bank tells them. Regurgitate. How do I know that as an ex banker, you know what I mean? So, you know, I walked away from banking, my eyes were open, like, oh, my God, this is what you can really do, not what the bank would just tell me. So that's the beautiful thing. Now you've also got the podcast has been out for a while. What's been your big aha nugget with the podcast? Anything that's just been overwhelming or doors opening or what?

Yeah, man. I think with the podcast, one of the. One of my biggest takeaways is how difficult is to grow a podcast, right? So, you know, kudos to you for having as many episodes out as you have, but growing a podcast and being committed and consistently doing a podcast is hard work. And so I commend every podcaster out there who is committed to that craft. The other, the other eye opener that I had is how quickly you can get better at it if you continue to do it. You know, you're a natural when you get on camera, you ready to go, like, there's no prep needed or anything like that with you. There's no blunders. You're used to it, and you can get better very quickly if you practice and you continue to do it. And so that's been the other key takeaway. The last thing is that how many people actually listen to your podcast that you just don't know? Like, you, you probably have this happen to you all the time. People come up to you and be like, hey, I heard about your last episode was really good. And you're trying to think through because, you know, you may have batched your episodes. Are you like, what episode was that you're talking about or what you're talking about? And so that's been really cool. And it's just been. It's been a really good journey, man. And, you know, more than anything, like I said, I feel like I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing in this season of my life. And that feeling is always great.

Well, and this is the thing I think is folks that have a big heart and, and get into investing for the right thing. We, we, we, we go through that journey of, a, we, we want, we first get in to make money, right? B, we say, hey, I want to do this full time. So you do that. C, can I bring my spouse home? Can I, you know, provide a better light at sea? And then D is like giving back, you know, how do I help others get along the way? I've always found that the most successful people are the most giving of their time because they don't want people to make the same mistake. And that you will always find the people that are the most successful out there who are willing to. To help. They're also the ones that are gonna recognize game. You know what I mean? Game recognizes game, you know what I mean?

Yeah. Yes, sir.

And that's, that's the beauty of it. And you know, Stick, the podcast is great. I was honored to be on it, you know, and there's not enough of us out there that are sticking with it long term. Stick with it. I mean, you're in the top 1% not only of what you've done as an investor in your real estate, but also the note business, but then also what you're doing with the podcast and of course, the book. Just, just keep sharing that amazing light and that fire that you've got to help people when it comes out. I mean, you can sit down with you for 10, 15 minutes and just see that you've got a passion behind you, and I commend you on that. They're deejaying. It's just, it's great. The energy is great. And people are attracted to honey versus vinegar a whole lot more. You got a whole lot of honey there, buddy.

If that's your way of calling me fat, I'll take the compliment. No, no, no, no.

Not at all. Not at all. But that's, that's the thing. So you got the podcast and you've. I'm sure it's opening some doors for it. We'll spend some time offline and I'll help you with some things about that. But it's really easy for you guys that are listening out there or watch this. Go to the foreclosure fix dot com. You watched the video. Show me. Pull up the website. We'll put the link in the show notes and for you to be able to go to. But check it out. The book is out. Like I said, you can order it at the Foreclosure Fix. You can also order it on Amazon and stuff like that too. Correct, D.J.

Yes, it's on. It's on every platform. Amazon Audiobook is out. We got ebooks. We got it in every way. We got hardcover, soft cover, paperback, no back. Whatever you want, we got it. Now, did you. Did you got every which way.

Did you hire like a book writing coach to help you out with that? Or you just take A self publishing class or how'd you kind of what helped you kind of get that thing done? You said two years, which is great. But was there a coach along the way helped you out with that?

No. So yes, yes and yes. Right. So I wrote the entire book myself, but I did work with a company called Book Launchers to help me launch the book because one of the things I wanted to make sure I did is that I put out a quality product. And so, you know, from what I wrote to where the book ended is a million miles away. But that's, that's because of different experiences, different things, different rounds of edits. And that what took two years, it took me maybe a year to get my first manuscript out. Right. And then once my first manuscript was out, it took another year to get to the whole finish line of the publishing process. And that's where I started working with Book Launchers from that first manuscript to now. And you know, if you look at the first manuscript, you got 15 or 20 or 30 different revisions of going back and changing this, making this easier, making it more palatable for homeowners, breaking it down and you know, not getting too granular, but getting granular enough that that whole process of trying to refine something because you know, when we talk about houses and numbers and IRRs and deals and all this other stuff, it comes naturally to us, but somebody who's hearing it for the first time and so just really trying to hone that messaging and so yes, it's been, it's been a long process, but a great process and I've learned a lot throughout it and excited to help a lot more people moving forward.

Right. What's your, besides having a successful launch or anything like that with a book, what's your big goal for the rest of 2024?

A couple key things. One, from a business perspective, we want to make sure that we are doing like the numbers and the volume that we want to do. And so that's really, really important because while I was writing a book, you know, I took my, I took my head, I mean I took my eyes off a couple key KPIs in our business. And you know, you can't be in two places at one time. You can't have two masters and stuff like that. So really getting back and focusing in on our day to day business and making sure our KPIs really, really making sure that we have the right systems and processes for, you know, our team, we're a small team, you know, we, I got my wife and we have a couple employees and I have a ton of subcontractors. But just making sure that we have the right people in the right se, the right processes. Because a lot of times, like if I have to do it, then something went wrong. And so just making sure we have those right things. It's I, I'm dealing with the challenges of every business owner in the country. Right. Is making sure that you are trying to build a business that doesn't need you to operate day in and day out. And not that you want to step away, not that you won't be there, but if everybody has to come through you to make a decision, nothing is getting done. And so that's my kind of big challenge for this year, is trying to make my business a better business than it already is. And so I am. I'll take any tips or suggestions you got, man. So please, I'm all ears.

Well, I'll tell you this, the delegation, that's one of the biggest things. VAS help a lot with that. And VAS can help in the business, but also the marketing side and that's, that's one of the biggest things. We used to have a full time staff, you know, four full time, actually five full time folks working in an office building. We had two offices and that was a big overhead. Sometimes you're an adult babysitter. And once I leveraged other people and our VAs it literally revolutionized. You know, we got a whole lot more done, a whole lot less cost and a whole lot less problems. And we saw a lot of growth on there. So encourage you to do that and we can talk more about that later on. But for those that are listening or watching us, what's the best way for them to connect with you? Dj to follow up with you, to get a book, listen to podcasts? What's the best way for folks to connect with you?

The best way is theforeclosure. Fix.com you can see everything there. I'm on all the social medias. My favorite is LinkedIn. I'm actually an old school guy. I really like email. So, you know, if you ever want to email me, you can shoot me an email at dj@aso holdings.com or if you look at me on the web, you can probably find my phone number. I'll throw it out there. It's My direct sale is 313-971-7385. I'm a licensed agent in Georgia, so you can find me just by googling me. And so I'm here. I'M not going anywhere. And my goal is to help a million homeowners successfully navigate foreclosure. So if you have been impacted in a good way by the information, do us a favor, like subscribe to the note closure show, like subscribe to my show, check out the book, leave a comment. That's the way in which we know we're doing the right things. And so if you could do that for us, that'd be so helpful. And again, we appreciate you. The last thing I'll say to your audience is that if you are in a situation where you are facing foreclosure or not just foreclosure, anything going on in your life that's challenging or difficult, I want to let you know that we are resilient people and that as long as you woke up this morning and you have breath in your lungs and you can walk and you can talk, tomorrow is going to be better than today. The next day is going to be better than that. And you got to keep putting one foot in front of the other. Life is hard, but we are resilient and you got to keep pushing forward. And Scott is a testament to that with the stuff he's been through in his life life. And I see it every day in the people who I interact with. And I just want to remind you that because it's so important, we get beat up a lot, but hey, smile and do something good for somebody.

Amen to that, brother. And we will wrap it up with that there. Once again, guys, check it out. The foreclosurefix.com I want to thank DJ Alojo for just being on and providing some spunk in our day. Definitely check out the podcast. He's got a great energy on there as well, along with a few pretty cool guests on there including yours too. Go out, take some action, but share the book with somebody. Go out there if you know somebody's face trouble, a realtor that needs some help on that. Share the book. You won't regret it. But go out there, take some action, buddy, and we'll see the top. Bye.

Sam.