Why a $25,000 Mistake Was the Best Thing for Scott Carson: Unseen Work Podcast

What's up, world? It's your host, Miles Biggs. And welcome to Unseen Work, where we remind you that the best path to your goals is not always a straight line. Now, I wrote the book on unseen work, literally. And after publishing that book, giving my TED Talk, the response to this idea of unseen work was so strong that I decided to double down and keep it going with this podcast. Now, each interview originally aired as a video live stream on Facebook, on YouTube, and on LinkedIn. Every Wednesday at 8:45pm Eastern, I hop on that video stream and I interview people from around the world who are seen for something. They're successful in their own right. They've accomplished something monumental. But we don't really talk about that. We talk about the unseen work, the days in the trenches, the sleepless nights, what it took to get them there and how it made them who they are today so that they're able to be seen as they are. I'm always so amped up after these interviews. I walk away with so many tactics and frameworks that I can implement in my own Unseen Work so that I can continue to level up all of my endeavors. And my hope in publishing this as I podcast to reach more people is that you listen to these episodes and feel the exact same way. Remember, we have to do this unseen work so that when we are seen, we have something to show for.

All right, let's get to work. What's up, everybody? And welcome to another wonderful Wednesday where we put in the unseen work. Like the ticker says down below, if you happen to be stumbling upon unseen work for the first time, be sure to get brought up to speed by checking out the book and the TEDx talk, which came before the show you are watching or listening to. Now, you can do all that by heading to my website. It's milesbigs.com miles with a Y and you can find all the stuff there. So while we're doing this live stream, I want to remind everybody that you can bring comments to the show. Like, this guy looks familiar, right? Bring your questions for Scott, who was our guest tonight. Bring your comments, get involved in the interview. We can co create this interview together. And that's part of the fun of live streaming. So if you have an idea, you have a thought, you want to jump in, do that. And instead of my double ugly mug there, we could pull you into the stream as well. So who we talking to tonight? Right, we are talking to Mr. Scott Carson. He is the president of We Close Notes and also the a nationally syndicated podcast and Radio host known as the note guy, which we're gonna. I love that. I love the people who are the guys of stuff. I've talked to a bucket list guy before. Scott will talk about that. And now we got the note guy, so. So, ladies and gentlemen, a warm round of applause for Scott Carson.

What is going on? Happy Cinco de Mayo, everybody. Hopefully you're all having margaritas and fajitas tonight, but, hey, glad to be here. Unseen work was the margarita that I shook about 10 minutes before. We got rock and rolling here.

Hey, there you go. Or if you hadn't shown us the margarita and we just felt your bubbly personality and energy, the margarita itself would have been the unseen word.

No alcohol or know alternative things to get my bubbly personality. Rock and roll, brother. But that's funny. Yeah, exactly.

So let's kick it off with. With this right when we say the Note Guy, I think it's a perfect place to start for a little bit of what you're seeing for what you do in the day to day. You are the note Guy. Your show's the Note Closers podcast. You've got we close notes. So bring us up to speed on what this means and what you do.

Yeah, that's. That's a good question. No, I'm not making musical notes. No, I'm not typing notes or sending notes. What I'm in the business of doing is buying distressed debt mortgages or IOUs or notes. And so I've been doing that for 13 plus years, buying distressed mortgages direct from banks and hedge funds, buying it at big discounts, and then becoming the bank and working with the borrowers that are in distress. God knows we have enough of them right now. And working to actually keep people in their houses. And how I got the name the note guy was kind of funny. You'll love the story because it kind of came from a lot of unseen work. As I was cranking out initially, golly, over 10 years ago, I was cranking out a lot of content videos, short videos, short Facebook lives, using the old delf flip cameras that uses to do that and just sharing content with people. And as I would travel across the country, I was asked to speak at different networking events or meet up groups. People are like, hey, you're that note guy I see on YouTube. I'm like, yes. And so it was funny. Four nights in a row, four different investment clubs. One in San Antonio, one in Austin, one in San Diego, one LA, four nights back to back. Somebody came up to me as I walked in the room. Hey, you're that note guy. And I just kind of stuck. So that's what the note guy means. I'm buying a lot of debt, working with banks and trying to keep people in their houses if I can.

That's awesome. Those are the best nicknames, when they're bestowed upon you by somebody else. That's when you know you're on something.

Most of the time. All right, I think we've all. We've all been given nicknames we don't like in some cases, and that's quite all right, too. But that's, you know, that's usually a college thing for the most part. But anyway.

Yeah. Say you got some. Some love for your drink here.

Hey, Marcello. Same thing, buddy. It is good. It's cobblewabble tequila. The grand manier shaking up in my house. So, yeah, good stuff.

There you go. And he's. Hey, he's coming from Atlanta. So fellow. Fellow Southerner there for you.

There you go.

Yeah, cool. So you are the note guy. That's an awesome story. And so you buy debt, you buy distress debt. And the way you said you help people keep people in their home. So basically, instead of them going into foreclosure, you step in and say, hey, I'm the new bank and I'll work with you. Is that how it works?

That's the first conversation. We buy their debt at a discount because they haven't paid, usually in six months to six years in some cases. Wow. And so it's literally just getting them on the phone, say, listen, what's going on? What kind of problem? Have you been through any type of financial hiccup? You know, did you lose your job? Did you get sick? You get divorced? Somebody die? What happened? And, well, can you start making your payments? Can we work out a true win win solution for them to stay in the house if we can get them back on track? If they can't pay, do they have. Somebody can take over the payments? If they can't do that, can we sell the property or do we just need to give them, like, cash for keys? Just kind of walk away before we foreclose? About 40% of the time, we do have to take the legal route and foreclose because they won't work with us. But most of the time, we do a lot of good in helping people stay in their houses. If we can help them keep that dream of homeownership that Americans have versus it turned into a nightmare, like, for a lot of people out there right now.

Yeah. So how do you get started in that? How do you. Before you're the note guy, what guy were you? Right? What, how'd you, how'd you do this?

So that's a really good question. So before this, I was a banker at JP Morgan Chase. I was the banker, I was the, the gringo is what they would call me because I was a banker for JP Morgan Chase in South Austin. 79 of our clientele was Spanish speaking. I obla habla un paquito, margarita and taco. About all the words I could say there. But I was the banker. And I had a buddy of mine that was a financial advisor beforehand and he started a mortgage company that was traveling the country working with investors of all sites. And he partnered up with a couple other investors and I went to lunch with him and said, hey, this is really what I want to do. I mean I had some, I tried to be an investor beforehand, I'd flop beforehand, but had licked my wounds for a little bit. I think we'll share that for a story for later on. But yeah, you know, I said, okay, that's what I'm doing. So we started traveling the country in 2004, working with investors, doing mortgages, doing cash out refinances for people because it was just a crazy mortgage market. And then when everything, when the music changed in 2008, when all the music stopped and you know, that merry go round stopped on a dime, I just stopped originating and started jumping on the same side, a different side and start calling banks. Hey, what do you have? What, what kind of naughty borrowers do you have? You know, people that aren't paying or in trouble that you want to get off your books and we can buy it from you. So it's, that's how I got started was just literally dialing, you know, making 50 to 100 phone calls a day, kind of the whole Will Smith and Pursuit of Happiness kind of thing.

Sure. So that makes sense. So the unseen work for you of buying debt was working for. In the banking industry to understand how all that works. Right. So we'll keep following this rabbit hole back. What did you, how did you get into banking? Which is that something you always wanted to do or.

Yeah, I've always loved finances numbers. I got my securities license and trading licenses when I was younger on my own and got into banking after working for a. I actually worked for Smith Barney, which is a financial investment firm, Citibank. And they actually closed their branch location here in Austin for a couple years. I wasn't in finance. I Was doing odd jobs that I could. But I, I always love numbers. I always love finance. I just quick on my feet that way. And that's what really drove me to banking. Banking's a great industry to be in and I wanted to do something more. And I did that kind of that glass ceiling for Chase here in Texas and an opportunity to kind of get my feet wet and, and advance in a different way. Something I was interested in doing in real estate and learning the right way to invest versus the wrong way. And it just, it just skyrocketed from there. I mean, I've had peaks and valleys along the way, but it's been just an amazing ride over the last, I, I want to say almost 20 years now as an investor and 13 years of just buying debt where that's really all that I do. I'm not buying rentals. I'm not doing fix and flips anymore. It's just really becoming the bank and trying to, not only to help banks get the stuff off their books, but also to help keep people in their houses. But that's the thing. I mean, it's an interesting ride. It's not, it's the, not the most known niche in real estate investing out there, but it gets excited about HGTV and Flip this House or. Sure, Flip or Flop, you know, whatever those shows are out there. Flippity floppity flu, whatever. And you know, those are great, but they're, they're, they're fiction for the most part. It's not really how investing works. And so I was fortunate enough, you know, for about four years from 2004 to 2008, to really have an apprenticeship before the market changed. From these investors that we partnered with who taught me all sorts of creative financing and creative investing and really had a, you know, had somebody hold my hand for four years until I made the jump out my own in 2008.

That's awesome. And what strikes me about you is don't think of a numbers guy being an outgoing guy all the time. Right. Like you. Like so me. Right. I literally picked corporate communications for my major in college, not business administration, because when I looked at the curriculum like that, they're about the same. What's the difference here? Oh, corporate communication. I only have to take one accounting class. Business. I had to take two. I was like, yeah, looks like I'm going to be a comm major. Right. Because I can do numbers. And it's funny, I had to go back. I've taken certificate programs in accounting and finance since because it's funny, you know. Anyway, I'm rambling, but I had to, like, when I was a GM Of a company, it's like, okay, great, here's the p. L. You're responsible for it. I was like, well, should have taken that accounting class. So then I took it later.

Exactly.

I'm a talker. I'm a people person. I love to do this. Not necessarily have my head in spreadsheets and do numbers. So you're unique to me in the fact that you're very outgoing, you're very personable, and you love numbers in the numbers guy. So do you find that. That you're unique in your industry and your niche, or are there more of you out there than. Than I know about?

So you and I have that in common. A little bit. Because I wanted to actually go into college. I wanted to be the next ESPN broadcast, the next Dan Patrick. You know, that's what I wanted to do, to be the next sportscaster. And I kind of go with that route. Journalism and the masscom and I've always had the entrepreneur bug from an early age. My parents were entrepreneurs, and in between my sophomore and junior of college, I took a year off to figure out what I wanted to do. I just played college football. I was lucky enough I'd have academic and football, academic and athletic scholarship, but just stopped playing for a little while and tried to figure out what I want to do. I went back into college. Is okay. I need to go the business route. That's if I want to make money. Yes, you can make some money being a sportscaster, but you're traveling all over the place. You're not really in the stock, you know, same space. I was like, ah, okay. That's not really what I'm. I want to make money. That's what it comes down to, you know, especially when you start paying for college for your own self. You want to make money to make it, you know.

Absolutely.

And so that's. I settled on business. I looked at the curriculum like you do. I said, oh, okay. I was able to clap out of the two years of Spanish that I was required there. Otherwise I would have had to take a third year and another couple classes to be a master journalism major, but just ended up, you know, going that route and graduating with a dean's list at Texas state university or was southwest Texas state back in the day. But, you know, I love it. You know, it's. I've always enjoyed. There's always a story behind the numbers. Most people get so bogged in the Numbers. But numbers will tell you a story if you know how to read them and evaluate them long enough, you know, and so I love the story, you know, and that's one of the things I think that makes me unique, is I can look at a deal, I can tell what's going on, especially with all the numbers that I'm at. And I like, I like telling stories. You know, that's what people remember, stories. They remember the numbers on a spreadsheet. I remember the fact that somebody had lived in a house for four years not making a mortgage payment, or somebody, you know, had raised their daughter for 18 years in that house that they haven't. That they're upside down by 100%. So I just like having fun. I mean, I've been in jobs that I hated going to work every day, and there's nothing more closer to indentured servitude than having to do that to show up. You hate getting up at 8 o'.

Clock.

Me, you and I were joking about. I don't mind springing out of bed in the morning after the cat pounces on me to feed them. Yeah, but that's the thing. You got to enjoy what you're doing. And I really do enjoy what I do every day.

Yeah. That's awesome. So maybe another comment here I'm going to acknowledge from Hema. Thank you. She's got a really cool podcast catering toward mom entrepreneurs. So working moms that, you know. I don't know if you know this, Scott, but I'm not a mom. But I was on her podcast.

You know what? He does a great job. Yeah, she. I think she commented. I was liking one of the posts. We just, I think we just connected on LinkedIn too, recently. So. Hey, she's great to connect.

She's sharp. You'll. You'll enjoy a conversation with her. Thanks for watching Hema. So I want to get back to a story you talked about briefly. I felt like there was more there when we talked about it last time when you were on the show with Dave Cooper and I on increasing influence, you were referencing a road trip and how the road trip helped spring you forward. So let's talk about that. What is this road trip? How does it factor into what you're doing today?

So 2010, I'm sitting here in Austin, Texas, and if you think about what the market was like back then, a lot of defaults. People were losing their houses upside down. I'd gone through a divorce a year before that, a business partnership that went separate. And I Was like, I got to do something. And I'm a big baseball fan and I've always been an advocate of writing down your goals or coming up with, you know, goals that you want to accomplish. And one of my biggest things is I wanted to always go around and see all the major league baseball parks. Never thought it would be possible to do. Says, well, let's put it down. So I'm sitting there in March 2010 figuring out the baseball schedule and said, what if I, if I left Austin, could I hit all 30 Major League Baseball parks in like 30 weeks? And so I planned out this. Not really mythical because I actually had the dates. I put it in my calendar. Who's playing what, when the, who the Rangers are playing, who the Astros are playing. Just kind of went around for that. In the matter of three weeks, I had, it's weird, total divine intervention. And in the next three weeks I had four different investment clubs reach out to me, different parts of the country and asked me if they could use like my videos as producing my content. They, I could come out and speak at their investment club or they could use it in their newsletters. I was like, yeah, you can use it. I would love to speak. When would you like me to come speak? And the dates they wanted me to come speak lined up perfectly with the dates of this trip, Houston being one of them, Tampa being another one, Philadelphia being another club, and then New York being another club at all. So it was all weird. It wasn't like all in my home in Austin or Texas here. And I was like, okay, God, you're telling me something here. So in a matter of two weeks, I held garage sales. I sold everything in my house, got rid of everything except my dog at the time and my truck and some clothes, basically. I had some clothes obviously. And I set out in this 30 week journey. I planned travel across the country and I would speak at an investment club. One night I would go to a ball game when I was in town and it just really led to that kind of grassroots effort. It was, I didn't have quite the Madden mobile, you know, it was my white Ford F154, you know, Ford pickup truck. Driving around. I didn't know where I'd be staying. One night, one night I'd be in a hotel room, one night I'd be friend would reach out to me, hey, come crash. And that 30 week trip turned into over three and a half years of non stop travel. And it was just an amazing thing that really if I wasn't the note Guy before, I was definitely the note guy after that. And it was just an amazing time. I met people all across the country that have had a big impact my business, because now, instead of me just having a network in Austin, now I have this nationwide network. And it really helped me blossom my business because I was getting in these lists of mortgages and notes from banks all across the country. Now I had eyes and ears in just about every market across the country. And so that was an amazing thing. I literally put myself on the line. I didn't leave Austin with a ton of money. I think I had, like 2,000 bucks in my bank account. I was like, you know, what if I fail? I know I can call my mom or some of my friends, and I'll get enough gas money to get back home and I can crash on a couch or two. So I really believed in it. And, you know, I've always had strong faith that comes from my dad, my mom. But, you know, it just was an amazing thing when you put yourself out on the line there and, you know, technically burn the bridge, burn the ships, to go out there and do it. And it just crazy, you know, it was a crazy journey. And, you know, I enjoyed a lot of hot dogs. I found a lot of great, not young, great cheeseburgers across the country and some hole in the wall restaurants.

That's wild. Like, I'm processing three and a half years. Like, in a way, you were homeless for three and a half years. Like, you chose to be. You sold all your stuff and you spoke about finance and being the note guy and then watched baseball.

Yeah, I would meet with bankers. It was funny, you know, because I'm. I'm just. I'm about to turn 44 here, but I was, you know, barely 30 at the time. And I walk in a bank in a suit with a student of mine. My suit would always be, like, you know, 40, 50s, even 60s. And the banker would go talk to him like he was Mr. Carson. They're like, oh, no, no. This is the guy you need to talk to. And they would, like, look down at me. What do you know, you young whippersnapper? And I'm like, well, I know you got 75 million in bad debt in your books, and half of that's commercial debt. And you need to move this off your books in the next 90 days, not the next nine months. And they would like, okay, come and sit down. It would just be. It was just an interesting thing. I mean, yeah, I had people like, you know, I. I lived in Florida What I thought would be a week turned into like three months because I was so busy down there and rented a room. And I was probably the most successful homeless guy you could say for a while.

It was a lot of fun, right? Put that on a T shirt with your face. The most successful homeless guy you've ever met.

Good times.

That's wild, though. I love that story, though, because so many people would say that they want to do that. They would talk about, one day I'm going to go see all every ballpark. And you made it happen. I mean, other things happen around it. It wasn't just like a vacation. In a way, is very smart. It's a three and a half year business expense that you had to have some fun because you're taking those meetings.

In every city, you know, and that's the thing. Don't be wrong. I would come home for the holidays or I'd fly back if I need to with a dog or. And stuff like that. But you got. That's the thing is once you've gotten rid of everything, it's really very liberating. Don't be wrong. I love living in Austin, Texas. I love the home that we live in here and the artwork and other things that I have along the way. And our animals. Wouldn't trade this for anything. But I think when you get out and you're on your own and you don't know where you're going, and you try, you're coming up with a plan like, hey, where am I going to do? It's so liberty. And you really, to be successful, you have to find yourself. I think that's one of the big things. I think a lot of people getting the idea of keeping up with the Joneses, as far as keeping up with appearances. I got to dress a certain way, I got to drive a certain car. I got to live in a certain neighborhood, you know, and that's the big thing I've never been big on. I mean, I've had just as much fun eating a pimento cheese sandwich on the side of the road or at Taco Bell versus having or Luther Steakhouse, because it's just. You're just talking with people. And I think it's one of the most important things that you can do is, you know, if you're investing in another different area, get on a plane. Southwest has those want to get away rates so you can fly across, meet people, talk to people. We are so. Especially with COVID this last year, we're so used to being at home and Being on Zoom or Streamyard or something like that. Right. We don't even know our neighbors next door. We don't even know that people cross the street.

Yeah.

And that's a big thing for people. It was. It was rewarding because now you never know who you're going to meet, never know what kind of experience you have. And so it's a great thing and comes in really handy when I'm talking with people or people are, you know, talking about my business, where they want to, you know, think about taking my classes or investing with me. I can have that rapport with them. Like, oh, you live there. Is this restaurant still open? Or, you know, I've been down to, you know, is Lulu's backyard still open? You know, Jimmy Buffett Sisters Place still available in Gulf Shores there. That kind of stuff. It's just priceless when you can have those experiences. And I think that's one thing. Many people in finance, they're very stoic, very stiff. You know, it's like, yeah, you know, you know, the starch on their shirts keep them from doing anything. Me, I'm like, look, let's have a beer. Let's chill, you know, let's have fun. Tell me what. What excites you. Tell me a bit about yourself. And that's where the real relationships, these are made. It's all about building rapport, if you can.

Yeah, yeah. So true. And you mentioned, like, with the pandemic, we don't know our neighbors, which I agree. I mean, I don't know some of my neighbors. But what's cool with the Internet, though, is like, I was on a podcast with the guy on Sunday this week who lives in Cyprus, right? It's like, you can go and make these connections globally. You just have to want to. And take steps to doing it and meet the people where they are, which, you know, is what we're doing right now on the computer, which is so great. But it's just another example for folks, right? Like, just to do it right. Take. Take that action. You don't. You don't have to sell all your stuff like you did. You can. There's ways to get into it and get comfortable meeting people, pushing your comfort zone, even while sitting on your couch, which is cool.

And that's. That's a big thing these days. You just got to get out and market. I think a lot of people don't realize it's so much easier than it ever was before, whether you do want to go to Cyprus or you want to talk to somebody. From Cyprus. It's just a matter of putting yourself out there first and foremost.

Yeah.

You know, and, and with the use of tools like LinkedIn and Facebook and you know, Instagram or TikTok or Clubhouse today. I was on a clubhouse thing today and there's like people from 15 different countries on it sharing their experiences on different things. And it's just, it's just. And podcasting itself. You get people across the world these days listening in and you never know who's going to hear your. Hear what you have to say and add value to their day in, day out life.

Yeah. So mentioned your dad briefly and you said that your faith comes from your dad. I love to talk about that a little bit. Right. Your, your parents, your grandparents. Why are you the way you are? Scott, what do you think when you look at your family stuff and you look at what you've accomplished, do you reflect on it ever and realize that you took this piece from your dad and that piece from your mom and, you know, here you are.

So my dad was my hero growing up. And I joke about faith and I mean faithful in seriousness. Actually went to seminary school to be a minister and he decided not to be minister, but he actually took two years off from high school when his older brother went to the Korean War to stay home with his dad, his mom and on the farm. My parents are from Minnesota. That's where I was born originally. But. And so that. That work ethic comes in of waking up early and put in a good solid day's work and giving and helping out your neighbor, that comes really from my father. And when my parents moved to South Texas, they my dad different jobs and then he opened up a hardware store in a small little community of Ingleside, which is about. Was about 4,000 people right across the bay from Corpus Christi. So I grew up working in that hardware store as a young kid and working with people and waiting on them and running the register and really built that saw my dad's work ethic and helping people that were, you know, we. You open six days a week and sometimes on a seventh day on the Sabbath to help somebody out with a busted pipe. They couldn't make the trip into town. They needed somebody to fix something. We'd go in and help them out there. And I just really saw my dad and, and saw how, you know, it wasn't always sunshine and rainbows. You had some bad months and good months, but he always showed up. He was driven. He always found a way to make things. We never went without my Parents weren't really like, hey, you need to go do this, you need to get straight A's. Hey, we support you in what you do. And so my mom jokes that as loud as I am, as bubbly as I must be adopted because my dad was very quiet and she's very quiet. I'm one of my dad, had seven kids with his first wife and I'm the oldest of the second litter, as I like to say. But I'm the only one out of ten kids that went to college and got a college degree. My younger sister enjoys a job. My younger brother got his associates after I went. But I think the biggest thing is you, if your parents are there and hopefully they're spending time with it. I know a lot of parents are freaking out this last year because now they've got to be at home with their kids and their other spouses. And I always saw my mom and dad working together, you know, to rowing the boat in the same direction towards a common goal, supporting kids. They even adopted their two, two grandkids. So we had a household of seven growing up and well, you know, you, you end up, you know, you know, you end up, you know, helping each other out as best you can. You plug in and help everybody out. And I think that's just kind of come along the way and has helped me, you know, help people. I'm always glad to give somebody 30 minutes to talk with them or help them out or answer questions. And I think it's. You talk about unseen work. That's where it comes from is my dad. Look, you need it, you need a little piece of wood. Here you go. Take it and walk away. I'm not going to charge you a nickel for it. Just come back when you need something bigger.

Yeah, well, it makes a lot of sense just from what I know about you. The, the Minnesota totally makes sense that your Midwest coming out with and talking and just that neighborly. Right. From what I. People I know out there, that makes total sense. Not that it's not Southern too, but that clicks. Growing up on the farm, the work ethic, a huge family. That. Yeah, that's cool. It's funny that we both have that in common actually. My grandfather was a pastor.

Oh, wow.

So growing up for me it was similar that like the extended family of the church and you show up and it's like you're the pastor's grandkid and everybody, everybody's in your business, they want to talk to you. But then it's also cool to see just that example of somebody you look, literally look up to when you're little. You know, they're taller than you and watching how they interact with people. Like your story of the wood. I had similar stories of, you know, my grandfather getting involved in certain ways in the community that just like that's what you. That's just what you see as normal, even though it's not normal. Right. And then it's cool to think back on, like our versions of that now.

Yeah, that's such a great thing. You know, you think about and it's not. We see some things too. My dad passed away about 10 years ago and I saw my mom clean out his shop. He sold the hardware store in his shop. And it was over like a two week period. I was down there helping out with some things and just people came out of the woodworks. We heard stories of him helping out people. Or we'd come across something and not know what the heck it was. And you know, somebody would come in and talk about, share these. And that's one of the great things, I think people have a big heart is you hear all these stories of little things that they don't ask for attention on. It's the unseen work, the unseen help.

Yeah.

With people to help them out. I mean, look, we all go through ups and downs, financial hiccups or good days and bad days. And sometimes it's just a smile or a joke or even a breakfast taco. Buying that for somebody when they need. When they're having a bad day or something goes along.

Yeah, or margarita.

Right, baby? We've bought quite a few on some of the different things we've done. Amen to that. Yes, sir.

So another thing you mentioned earlier was that you flopped. You said you flopped on something. So I'd love to dig into that for everybody watching by now, if you've come back. Multimedia. You know what I mean by flop, which is the fail lie obsessed pretend that I believe we can't escape failure. Right. It's everywhere. We all fail. It's what we do after that matters. So the flop is where I literally just paint this picture in my mind every time. Like me face down like a mud puddle. Like flopped. Like rock bottom, Like I messed up. It's a true failure. So what, what was that flop you were referring to? Or if you have another flop. Story of a time.

Do we have long enough to talk about flops? Yeah, we got about.

Give you 20 more minutes. Talk flops.

So I think that the most important one that really did lead to a lot of Things was, I got, got married out of college, married my, my high school or college sweetheart. We've been married for about a year. Bought our first house. You know, things were going good. I was making close to six figures as a financial advisor. She was working as a private school teacher. We love those real estate shows. We went and bought two investment properties here in Austin, Texas, almost back to back and 100 financing because we had such great credit. It was such an easy time to get mortgage that time. Well, in a matter of a month, I got laid off my job. They just closed the location. They laid everybody off. And the employer for our two tenants in our two rental properties bought. They got laid off too. And you know, so you get really successful. We didn't have a lot of savings because as young kids you buy a new truck and buy new stuff, the new house, stuff like that. So we went through our savings very quickly and we were trying to make six mortgage payments on a private school teacher salary.

Wow.

Yeah, that was not a good time. And you know, financial stress is one of the biggest causes of divorce and stress out there. We know that it was very stressful at that time. And so for roughly about a year, I did anything I could. I mean, I put down that, hey, I want to be a real estate investor. Goal to later on. I'm like, I gotta put some money. I was waiting tables at Chili's. I was delivering for FedEx, home delivery for a dollar successful thing. You know, I was almost going door to door on Ginzu. Nice for the most part. Didn't quite get there. But I thought about it. But that was a big flop for me. And I really was depressed and upset about what I had gone through and put us through. Yeah, it's about a year, year and a half before we. I finally got out of that, kind of got back into what I wanted to do. But that year, you know, it was not good. Not. I. I kept the dream alive, but I didn't know how I was going to get to that because when you get kicked in the, the teeth or the shin or the wavos, you're. You don't know, you're kind of, you know, gun shy from putting it out there and going and doing something again. And I learned, I learned the most from that, that I needed to learn how to do it the right way. I needed to find a mentor, find somebody, help guide me along the way instead of thinking I could do it all by myself.

Yeah. So you managed to make it out though, right? You didn't have to did you have to go the color bankruptcy or you had you figured it out?

I was very close to that. We were able to get rid of the two investment properties. I was able to do a loan modification with the bank and keep our primary house. And so that's why I empathize. I think it's helped me lead to a lot of empathy for what I'm doing today.

Right.

Funny or not, and being the, the, you know, the deadbeat bar, you know, the non performing bar back in the day, I have a lot of empathy because I can talk to people. Listen, I know you're in a bad situation. What's going on? Let's just have a talk. You know what's going on? Do you need some help? I'm willing to give you some help. Let's. I could be your best friend or I could be your worst. I mean, you just got to work with me. And that was one of the things that was lucky enough is I just, you know, I did what I needed to do. I worked some long hours, I bust my butt, we took care of things and then, you know, it was really nice. A couple, two years later, I was actually able to retire my wife from her teaching job at the point and do what I wanted to do. We ended up getting divorced. That's another story. I could call that a flop. But I look at it as not it's hindsight now. It's like, hey, probably one of the best things ever happened to me because I wouldn't have found the lovely lady that I'm with now. That is just the joy of my life.

Yeah, that's good. If she's over there watching, that's a good recovery there. If she's listening, she's downstairs.

She's probably not listening.

So anyway, well, what I think is cool about the example, I agree with you. That's probably why you have so much empathy.

Right.

It makes sense for those deadbeat people that you were. But also it's cool, like you were a waiter at Chili's. You deliver for FedEx. Another anomaly. Like if you tell someone I'm in finance or you know, you know, I'm. You're literally like a bank. People don't think about those types of people as delivering for FedEx. So I think that's another way where you, you can probably relate to people and be like, I get it, I've worked these jobs, I know what it's like. So let's figure this out together, you know?

Yeah, that's the thing is people, I think we get. When we have a bad time, we get so bogged down in our own misery, I mean, going down that rabbit hole of despair and we. You gotta pull. You gotta pull your head out of your ass at some point and, and realize, hey, there are opportunities out there. There are jobs. Sometimes you gotta swallow pride. Look, I would have dug ditches, I would have mowed yards. Whatever I need to do to put food in the table, to do what I need to do. And I think when you are facing that, it takes away a lot of fear because once you've gone through that, you're like, ah, okay, I've been through that. I'm not afraid to fail. I know that I can find my way through it. I mean, everybody you hear about that has success, has their rags or richest stories or their failure to success, but it does. I mean, you. The good Lord never gives us something that we can't handle. And sometimes you have to build a thick skin by going through some trials and tribulations to be ready for that bigger ballgame, that bigger opportunity that's coming down the road. And you never know. I look back at the time and, yeah, I can remember, like, the girl I had a big crush on in high school coming into the restaurant and actually waiting on her. She's like, oh, you've done well after high school, you're waiting on tables. Yes, I would like some fries with that, please. You know what I mean? You know, you're like, oh, you're just like, want to run back home to mama with your tail between your legs. But you have to realize, look, there's a reason for everything. We're all in the position we are because of decisions we've made. I could have done better things before, not get to this. But you never know until you've reached out, let go of that kind of that thing holding you in place and take a leap of faith sometimes, you know, you know, learn, like my wounds. And you, you're much more experienced even. The only thing that you guarantee by not trying is failure. Because you'll never accomplish your dreams or goals if you don't get at least given a chance to try.

Yeah, and that's. That's way worse. Like, playing the coulda, shoulda, woulda game is way worse than being like, remember that time where it was horrible, but I made it through? Right. And you can look back at it fondly instead of looking back and play what if?

Yeah.

And that is. I gotta imagine, though, you probably wouldn't be doing what you're doing today if you hadn't gone through all that.

You know, somebody asked me that the other day in a podcast, and I was like, you know what? I don't know. I probably be in business of some sort, but I'd probably be. I'd probably work in a corporate job instead of being my own boss. And I've been basically making my own money since that time, since 2004. I haven't had a W2 job since then, and I'd probably be a banker. I look at some of my friends I was in banking with, and they're still there. They're at a different bank. And, you know, they enjoy what they're doing. They're not happy. And I, especially my high school and college buddies, I'll see them every once in a while, same thing. They're not happy. They all think I'm crazy. Some cases my family thinks crazy, which is totally fine. I don't mind it. But that's the thing. I mean, I think you sometimes gotta be a little bit of a riverboat gambler to accomplish things. To launch a podcast or to write a book, you know what I mean? Or to apply for a ted, TED Talk or whatever that might be. Whatever your goal might be, you gotta start doing it. You just gotta start laying it out there. I mean, when I started calling banks, when I was working as mortgage company, I called like 55 banks in a row. And I got told no till I got my first yes. And then I was on the right, so I got one yes. I ended up making 50 grand off that one. Yes. I was like, that's all I needed to know. I mean, how many times did you apply for TED Talk before you got 1? Miles?

It's a bad example. The first time I applied for it.

I got, well, that's good. You golden child there. But. Silver spoon in your mouth. No, but. Okay. How many edits of your book did you go through?

Oh, so many edits. Yeah. And versions of the Talk. Like. And I love that story of 55. I think, like, everybody should experience what it's like to work the phones and try to sell something. Like, for any dollars, go make a dollar off somebody for something. I experiment with that during the pandemic using apps like Shaper and Bumble Biz. I was like, just consulting stuff. I was like, I'll help you start a podcast, or, yeah, I'll be your accountability coach. I was just doing whatever people would pay me to do, just to experiment with my time. I wasn't spending in a commute. And it is A rush, like, it's exhausting. You have to love it. But when you. When you, like when you work in it and you're on fire and you feel the conversation and you're like, you get the sale. It's. It's a rush. And I. So I get why people get addicted to doing that. Especially when that rush aligns with the true passion and true calling that you have. There's. There's not much better than that.

You know, I do realize that 80% of sales are made after the fifth contact. And most people, over 50% of people, never follow up with a contact or lead after the first time. And so that's one thing. I have a marketing mindset a lot of times, and I'm always like, okay, I know I got to touch base with somebody five, six, seven, eight times before they say yes. It doesn't mean I'm going to bug them and stalk them. I'm in that trouble. Try to deliver something valuable to them each time. But that's a lot of people forget about that. And so there's one thing that we do every month that we live stream, and we'll actually sell tickets to it. Now, if people can watch me make phone calls for a day and watch me call banks, they can hear the conversations. They can hear me say f. You know, people tell me no or hang up on me or they can hear the good. And that takes away a lot of the fears. Like, oh, that doesn't seem very difficult. If Scott can do it, that idiot, I sure as hell can do it because I've smarter than he is. And that's part of what I think. I think is what draws people to us is like, look, if I can do it, you guys can do it. I'm not the smartest tool in the shed. I just. I'm a bulldog. I'm an outwork. Yeah. You know, I'm an out market at you. You know, I may not be doing a whole lot of things, but I've got my formula and keep it simple and it works once you've built the systems in place.

A lot of times I love that. That's so creative. Selling tickets to watch people watch you talk on the phone. That's.

I have to thank an attorney. I saw an attorney, sent an email, and he's like, oh, for $49, you can very valuable, you know, webinar for an hour. I was like, an hour? I'll do better. Four hours for 49 bucks. And like 20 people signed up for it. I started laughing. I was like, that's a pretty good hourly rate there for four days.

Yeah. And you close the deal on the phone. You're double dipping.

Oh, yeah. People like, oh, my God. Like, it was successful. I'm getting phone numbers and emails and deals sent to me live. And people like, oh, my God, that's amazing. Cracking up. So, you know, you just got to be creative. Sometimes I'll throw stuff outside the. Outside the box and see if it'll stick. Just to be goofy. Especially, you know, with pop culture these days. A lot of our marketing is just kind of goofy stuff. We try to align what's going on in the movies or in the world. Like when, you know, when Captain America or Civil War came out. You know what I mean? Avengers Civil War came out. We did a whole thing Note nation Civil War, where we had one of my competitors and one me get together, and we had me being the Iron man and him being Captain America and our faces melding. We had 800 people on a webinar to watch us hash it out. And it was just great. And it was just. Or I throw something out there. Like, I went to Vegas and saw a. A show called. I remember what it was called Spiegel World, something like that. And they had a lady because I'm out to get more ass tonight. And ASS was a period. S period. S period. And she's like, ass stands for assist, Strategize, and Support. I was like, oh, that's brilliant. So I sent an email up. I got back home, get more ass this weekend, people. Open it up. Or when fifty Shades of Grey came out, fifty Shades of Notes. You know, do you feel like you need to be spanked? It was just, you be goofy, be yourself. Not everybody's gonna be your friend or client. And that's okay. You gotta have a little bit thicker skin when it comes to being successful things. But realize you're not gonna make everybody happy is. I think it's one of the biggest things that I've learned from one of my mentors along the way. Yeah.

And that's. That's also part of being your own boss. You can send out emails talking about getting more ass tonight and not get fired.

Well, it's not like, you know, it's assist, strategized support. Get your mind out of the gutter. Come on.

Got another comment here. Jennifer Cooper checking in. Her and Dave have hit the road on their road trip. It's fun watching the Coopers cross the country. Checking in from Denver, Colorado. What's up?

That's awesome. Denver's great. Catch up. The the Rockies are playing today and I think the giants beat them 2 to 1 if you're a ball game fan there. So yeah, Jennifer, call me if you need some good ideas for eating out when you're traveling too. I think we already exchanged numbers, but anyway.

Yeah. And Jen, tell Dave to keep it easy on the crown royal out there. When you drink in an elevation, it'll catch up to you.

Don't drink crown on the ground for sure.

So what about a flip? Scott, if, if the flop was, you know, working at Chili's because of the, the investment property situation, what's an example of not a true failure, but more of a setback where you messed up but you're able to turn it into something that works for you?

You know, I would say, man, I would say literally going through a divorce and end of a business and then really whole market changing, having to pivot from being a mortgage broker to being a note investor. You have to, you know, a lot of people, I saw a lot of my friends that were in the mortgage industry just try to keep banging their head trying to keep originating loans. And it was just, it just didn't work for them. They had to change. And so that was one thing that I learned is I, I, when I started buying debt is I took what I learned as a mortgage originator to find borrowers. I also use it to find distressed deals. And then I could call the banks. And that was one of the biggest things, taking what I learned as a mortgage broker, applying it with the marketing, the follow up, the systems, the CRMs, the touching base with clients. And I just applied that to what I was doing as a banker, you know, you know, making 50 to 100 phone calls, sending out emails, you know, scrubbing lists off the county records just to take a look at what was going on and just not being afraid of the phone, picking the phone and dial and making a phone call to somebody. So that would be one of the biggest things I'd say. I think a lot of people, especially with, with COVID had to have to learn to pivot. A A here's another, here's a $25,000 mistake that turned into one of the best things I've ever done. We've done a lot of education, we do a lot of zoom trainings now, but we were doing a lot of teaching workshops, you know, hotel workshops. And we had this idea to do this event called the Magnet not magnify, Build your legacy Summit in Houston, Texas. And we dropped 15,000 postcards and we had all sorts of marketing and 25 grand on audio, video, and room blocks, and it flopped. Nobody signed up. And so I had to cancel the event three days before the event because there was just nobody signing up.

Yeah.

And I was so upset and stressed out about this. I could literally remember almost having a heart attack. I remember when I canceled it, how my blood pressure actually went down. Very nice. And there we are. We're driving. We're here in Austin, upset, driving from Austin to Dallas, and just kind of like, once again, just. And then Stephanie's like, scott, why don't you just do all your stuff online? Why don't you quit doing these hotel events that have this huge overhead? And why don't you just do the virtual event? I'm like, oh, it'll never play. It'll never play out. People just want to be in person. That's what they want. They won't do is real estate. She's like, why don't you give it a try? It's like, okay, I'll give it a try. And so we tried one event, and it was just awesome. We did all via, you know, Zoom or Gotowebinar. Remember what it was. But we did it. We had a huge turnout. It was successful, a lot less overhead. And then, literally the next night, I. I basically let go half my staff. I was like, okay, we're doing everything virtually now. I don't need you here. I don't need you flying. And we cut all this overhead. So that was taking a $25,000 mistake, at least that we lost money on and learning from it, and immediately pivot. So when Covid kicked in, this is old hat for us. We've been doing virtual events, virtual training for five years, right? And then we positioned ourselves in our niche, in our niche of real estate, as the guy out there who's doing online stuff, online summits that you bring in 300 to 1500 people, and people are trying to figure this out. And it was. It was kind of interesting because our alma mater, my Texas State University, the head of journalism I'm friends with, who has a podcast, who had, you know, she reached back out to me, like, scott, would you mind spend an hour on the phone with me and some of our staff talking about how you're doing your virtual stuff, your virtual classes and stuff like that to help us out, like, yeah, I'd be glad to. Your journalism, Aren't you familiar with this? She's like, yeah, but they need to hear from somebody else besides me. I was like, okay. So that, that would be one of the biggest flips. And I got to give. Like I said, Steph was the one that came up with. She beat me in the head with a baseball bat because I stick headed out. But it was one of the best, best decisions we made. If we'd had a successful event in Houston, I don't know if I'd ever gone doing the virtual stuff. We would kept plodding down that road because that was what was working at the time.

Yeah.

And it was one of the best mistakes that we've ever made.

Yeah. It's a two for there, right?

The.

You actually get people to attend the event and pay for it, and then you can reduce your overhead. So it's like you're making out on both ends and then when covet hit, you're not like have a huge payroll you have to cover, you know. So. Yeah, it's fortuitous.

What was, what was great is it opened up to a lot of our speakers, could now go to another event, speak there, and they could also get on my event up in their hotel room and speak for an hour. So it was like a double dip. And they would actually do better on my event than they would in an in person event. So anytime I come, I was like, hey, I got a virtual event. And they're like, oh, yeah, sure, you know how to market. And we. Your. Your clients are responsible, you're responsive and you're dedicated. So, yeah, you know, I get a lot. I think it was the number one thing here. I chuckled. Three years ago. I had my. Guess, my biggest competitor actually come up to me at an event, asked me if I could start marketing his stuff.

Nice.

And I was like, I appreciate that. Thank you. It is an honor that you would think of me that way now. But no, I'm gonna stick in my lane. You stick in your lane. We'll just keep it that way.

Yeah. Should have been like, sure, I'll do it for this crazy amount of money, right?

Yeah, yeah, exactly. But, you know, it's. It's an honor. I mean, that's, that's the thing is you just. You, you. Well, all. We all have people that are haters. You know, like I said, my mentor told me a while back that we've got three buckets of pool people that are in. You have your friends and family and colleagues and people that love you in one bucket. Then you have your haters, your enemies, the people that just have a dark hole for a soul. You know what I mean?

Yeah.

They're not gonna like anything. They're on this side. Too often though, like we send an email blast up market, it goes out to everybody. We worry. We don't think about the 10 or 15 people in the good bucket that cheer us on or liked it. We think about that one person that made a negative comment on the YouTube channel and said, oh, what are you doing? You can't do that. You have to basically put that third bucket aside and just focus on the people that love you and then that middle bucket of people that don't know you. Sure, if you stick, keep doing that, keep doing work, keep from that, what will happen is, yes, you'll, you'll take that middle bucket, put them over, and then what will happen is the haters will get tired of hating on you because they're gonna see that it doesn't affect you, they'll go away. Or better yet, they'll come on over to your side and say, oh, I know you back when, and you just think to yourself, yeah, but come on aboard, I'll take your money. Cha ching, cha ching, baby.

Yeah, it reminds me of, I actually just talked about this this morning on an Instagram live. I heard this word that I thought was awesome. It's the opposite of paranoid. Do you know what that is? Yeah, right. But the opposite, opposite of paranoia is called pronoia. And so if your paranoia is thinking like the whole world's out to get you, pronoia is believing that everybody is secretly conspiring in your favor to support you. So it's like instead of passing people on the street being like, what's up with that guy? Why is he like trying to knock me down? It's like, hey, that guy's trying to help me, right? It's just like the complete flip and that positive focus, like you're saying, versus the negative focus, it's huge for your own mental well being and how you show up and compete.

You know, our news could learn a lot from that because it is the whole paranoia aspect of our news and media. I mean, you can't buy into that because they will say, you know, if you keep watching the news, it'll be just negative, negative, negative. And you'll have that. It's basically a feed in your mind. And it really comes from programming your mind what you listen and watch to. And that's why I think podcasts and Streamyard and things like this are so valuable because you get a different take on things versus that whole Debbie Downer. The world is. This world is falling. You know, the sky is falling kind of crap. So.

Yeah, yeah. So speaking of that, you do a lot of these, you do a lot of podcasts, you do a lot of live streams, your own shows, nationally syndicated. You talk a lot, right? What's. What's something that you haven't really talked about? What's a. What's a true piece of unseen Scott Carson work here that we could talk about to round out the show?

So I think let's talk. We talk about podcasts. And one of the things that we do a lot of, and I've got to give a big shout out to my VA who helps me out with it, is I've always not wanted to travel as much as I used to. I still had to find a way, be in front of audiences instead of, like, reaching out to people, say, I'm gonna fly out and spend three days speaking to the same hundred people in my industry that go from event to event, event. I realized it was much more valuable for me to speak on somebody else's podcast because it was a new audience or be asked to speak, you know, add value to somebody's audience. If I could, where I could do five in a day, you know, six or seven a day, and do it for, you know, two, three days, I being 21 audiences versus one. And so I started really leveraging podcasts. So we do a lot of searching for, you know, real estate investing or real estate or business entrepreneurship podcasts out there. And then we. We do a deep dive. Hey, how many episodes do they have? When do they release their most recent episode? Are they still doing it? And, you know, what were the last three or four episodes that we take a look at to see how we could add value. You know, look who they've had on. When we have a guest on, we search to see what podcasts that they've also been on and listen in so that I can ask some different questions. Like, I, Dean Graziosi, you know, he's kind of a famous name in real estate, doing a lot of stuff with Tony Robbins and infomercials in the middle of the night for real estate. He had him on my podcast just recently, and I went listen to four or five different podcasts he'd been on to pull in different questions. And I am stumped on a couple things. And so people don't think about that. I'm listening constantly to podcasts. I'm on Clubhouse. I'm listening, I'm watching and researching. People don't see that. And so I get a lot of compliments for being a good interviewer on my podcast, but it's because I'm listening. I don't want to ask them the same question they've been asked four times in a row. I also don't want to deliver the same content that the day had somebody else on. I wanted to be fresh and something valuable. So do a lot of research in that. I mean, it doesn't take a lot. I mean, we buy a list for like 90 bucks from one podcast list we can download. Plus if it's a matter of just listening and checking out. And, you know, I'm a big believer that you have to have a marketing first mindset. So really, the first hour of every day is marketing. And when I get up, I feed the cat. So they quit me out at me. I got the coffee rolling, I go outside, sit on my patio, and I've got the wind chimes going, the wind, the birds whistling. I'm on my phone looking at different things. Just kind of from listening to meditation get me rock and rolling for the day. I spend at least 30 minutes just kind of researching what's going on, what's just doing. It's really enjoyable thing that kind of helps me lead into. Okay, when I sit down in front of my office, what's the next hour? How are we marketing, what email is going out, what podcast am I recording or who's, you know, whose podcast am I on the next hour and. And making sure I'm fresh and ready and. And something new if we can.

So I love that. That's a great. I think a lot of people could learn from that, right? So often we kind of just show up and send it in. Right. And it, like you said, it's the same stereotypical, like, what's the best piece of advice you could give in podcasts and things like that. That. That's smart. Smart to do it that way. And then that just helps feed how people talk about you, you know, and then it just serves up even more opportunities, I'm sure.

You know, the best thing is we're all experts at something. We're all got something. Whether it's basket weaving, cat rescue, plants, you know, gardening notes, real estate, whatever it might be, you know, dogs, whatever it might. If you can share that in something you're passionate about, that that can really add value to other people's lives. You never know when somebody's going through a bad day. They need somebody just a vent too. I mean, and then that's something too. If you're really trying to be an entrepreneur, try to do something. Try to find something that you would do basically for free and, or something that you really enjoy spending your time. I wouldn't get, you know, like I used to enjoy mowing my lawn, now I don't really enjoy it that much anymore. But there's people out there that are looking for your advice and I would highly recommend if you, if you're looking for a book to read, read Seth Godin's tribes book out there because it talks about how we all have different tribes that surround us and our tribes are looking for leaders. And you know, everybody's a leader at something. It's usually something you're passionate about or have an experience in. So don't be afraid to share your expertise.

Yeah, that's great advice. Again, so many people don't realize they have expertise just sat onto that. Right? It's. But somebody out there doesn't know how to do something that you know how to do. And so it's just leaning into that and owning what you're an expert in and then going for it. That's great. Well, Scott, it's been about an hour. I'm gonna, I'm gonna cut this off, man. I appreciate your time. I'll let you go back and finish that margarita. Make another one one, you know.

There we go. I might make a little guacamole to go along with this tonight, but yeah, no, it's been an honor guys. If you're watching and gals out there watch, make sure you hit that subscribe button. Make sure you hit that like button, you know, out there. Make sure you share this with at least one person out there. Miles is doing such an amazing job. He was unseen work. Check out his book, man. Come on, man. Go check out the TEDx video on YouTube. Order his book. You gotta do that. Come on. He's, he's getting, he's not paying me to say this. I just mean this from the bottom of my heart.

So thank, appreciate that. Got your stuff up on the taker, everybody. You can connect with Scott on LinkedIn, check out his website for where all his awesome stuff is and support him as well and then tune in next week. We're here at it again. It's the 12th of May already. It's crazy but May 12th, 8:45pm we'll be talking to Mr. Tom Ready. Put that banner up here. Tom Ready of Synergy Steel. Another Dave Cooper live follow on pulling from Dave's tribe for these, which is fun. So we're excited to talk to Tom. Hope you guys will join us. And Scott, thanks again. We'll see everybody later.

Hey, thanks man. Appreciate it.

That brings us to the end of our episode of Unseen Work. Please subscribe Rate Review this podcast so that we can continue to grow and spread our message. Be sure to to hit up the links in the show notes for more details on the guests and our sponsors. And if you love this idea and this mindset of Unseen Work, head on over to milesbiggs.com that's my L E S B I G G S.com for more info on the Unseen Work Mastermind community where we put these interviews, these thoughts, these ideas into action and hold each other powerfully accountable in our Unseen Work. Remember, you have to do the Unseen Work so that when you are seen, you have something to show for it.