Ep 263: [LIVE SESSION] She Contacted Her Ex...

I have been in contact with my ex. I'm wondering whether my approach to him appeared to be needy or scared him away.

The story you're about to hear is real. A real client working with David Holman to achieve extraordinary results. David has worked with high performers such as Olympic athletes and business owners, as well as those looking to develop meaningful relationships. Aside from names and certain characteristics which have been changed to protect clients confidentiality, all other details are true. This special season is brought to you by the Self Belief Chief podcast.

In this episode we're going to be talking to a client who's just telling me that they've recently been back in contact with an ex partner. And whilst it felt right in the moment, in hindsight they're actually questioning their intentions and behaviors and questioning themselves in terms of was it the right thing to do. And we all might be able to relate to this experience where in hindsight it just doesn't feel right anymore. We're going to find out why she got back in contact with this ex partner, but also design a version of herself and identity that allows her to operate and function at her highest level. Let's get into the episode.

And another thing I've been honest with you is like I have been in contact with my ex for a few weeks and so we plan to catch up a little bit maybe with a drink or something. But before that he sent me a message that he was still ill and he couldn't make it. And I think he got. And then I said I called him. So yesterday night I called him. Yeah, so he called Covid and he didn't care have any test kits And I have spire one. So this morning I gave him. I went to his. I passed by his flight and I give him two test kits. I want to talk about my intentions. I'm not sure whether I'm still appeared to be very needy or to appear to have a very needy old trying to, you know, this kind of things. I'm. I'm not sure. I'm wondering whether my approach to him appeared to be needy or scared him away. Will will scare him away.

So she mentioned a few times about wondering if she was being needy. Neediness means when something meets our needs. Now I do quite a bit of what's called human need psychology. So you might have heard of Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Tony Robbins has got a model on human needs. And just to keep it really simple for you, we all have human needs like certainty and love and significance. Needs that have to be met. Just a handful we all have the same human needs. We all do. Part of the reason why it's so difficult when a relationship ends is because usually they are the source of meeting all of our needs. They give us love, they give. They give us certainty, they give us significance, you know, they give us growth. And all of a sudden that's gone. So our human needs that are being met at maybe eights, nines and tens, all of a sudden, because they're not there, our human needs are maybe being met at ones and twos. And that's where that panicky feeling comes from. So part of my job going forward in the future with this client is to show them how to meet their own human needs better. Because then we don't need someone quite as much. We just can enjoy being with someone or want to be with someone, but not need to be with someone. That need is basically a survival instinct because at the beginning of time you needed a community or tribe of people in order to survive. Now that's not true anymore, but our brain is still built the same way. So that's what I'm going to be doing with her in the future. But one of the things I'm really curious about is what her intention is. She mentioned intentions a few times there, didn't she? I want to know if her intention is to be friends with this person or is she trying to get back with this person.

I think at the beginning I want to really to see whether I can be friends with him. But if I don't get, you know, very positive, I don't get the positive response from him. I feel. I felt anxious, but I'm much better than before. It's like I felt less. I can. I can't adjust myself to not think about that. And I think I behaved better. But still I feel a little bit anxious sometimes. For instance, today, this morning I passed by his flat and give him to test kids without let him know. And so it's like. It feels like. Yeah, I feel like a little bit bad after that because I didn't give him any notification that I will pass by. I will knock his door and give him some. Something. It's just like I. Yeah, without any notification because I intended to call him but I was in a hurry to go to office because. So I just. Yeah, I just. I think it was a little bit rude.

I want you to answer this as honestly as you can. If he said he wants to be back together with you, what would you say?

Probably I will say yes, but with the condition that I want to Know we want to know each other better. Firstly.

When we asked, when I asked that question, what are you trying to accomplish? What? It sounds like you tell me if I'm wrong. You said being friends, but it sort of sounds more like what you're trying to accomplish is being back together with him. Is that fair or is that unfair?

Yeah, yeah, I behaved like that. But though at the beginning my intention was trying to be friend with him, but now I found that my behavior, I just did. I just found that my behavior was not seen like that. My behavior was like more. More than what I said or what I intended or applied.

Yeah, see, with all of the questions that you have, the reason why. So I can see you sort of, you know, rubbing your head and sort of feeling quite down because it feels like a lot of different things. You're being pulled in lots of different directions. You're sort of, you know, oh, do I feel like this or do I feel like that? Or what should I do here? What should I do there? Part of the reason, aside from it's all a very emotional thing, part of the struggle that you're having is you're not, it sounds like to me you're not entirely sure what the bullseye is. And what I mean by that is, well, is it that I'm trying to be friends? And if it is that you're trying to be friends, then it requires one set of actions. If it's. If you want to get back together with someone, that requires a different set of actions. If it's to be able to create some distance from him, it requires a different set of actions. But what you have in your mind, and I think the reason why you're probably rubbing your head is you've got three different things going on in your head, which is be friends with him, be with him and move away from him. And you've got all of these different parts competing in your head. I can see you laughing. So I think you probably understand what I'm saying to be true to some extent. Now, I'm not against people being friends with ex partners. I can't say that I have been, but I also know people who are. And it's not for me to say what the appropriate thing should or shouldn't be. But at the same time we also have to understand really deep down, one, what we want, and two, what does the other person want? Because whilst it's in the place that you're thinking that you want to be together with him, but you're doing it through the lens of trying to be friends with him, then all the actions that you're taking are going to be inaccurate. They're not going to be the right things. If you're taking the actions to be friends with him, but you're trying to get back together with him, that it's going to create this sort of confusion. We can't trick people into getting back together with us. I say it like that. Not because you are trying to trick someone to get back together with. With them. It's not our intention to do, to trick someone, but people will often say they're doing it through the. The lens or the guise of we're being friends and as if they won't notice and then all of a sudden we'll be back together. Part of it is, I'm not saying you have to do it all at once, but also being quite clear in terms of what our intentions are, not straight away, but if it is to get back together with someone, then we commit to that. If we think it's a realistic possibility, if we know the other person isn't in that space or doesn't want it, then we have to accept that and we have to find a way to create distance. Because if we can't be in a place where we can genuinely be friends with them without, you know, them being able to live their life, all the things that you worry about them seeing someone else or you see them having good times around other people or whatever else it might be that's uncomfortable and painful and they have no intention to get back together, then trying to be friends with them isn't really going to work for you either. It's going to cause you more stress and more anxiety. As uncomfortable as all of that is. I know. Let's start with. By saying, do we think, if I asked him, is there a possibility that you will reconnect and be back in a relationship? Do you think he would say there's a possibility or do you think he would say there's no possibility at all? What would he say, do you think? What do you think he would say to me?

He's not sure, I think.

You think he's not sure. Why do you think he would say to me he's not sure? Why would he say that to me? What makes you think that?

Because from my interaction with him, I think somehow he cares too cared. And he planned to. He planned the time, the place to catch up in the bar. I think somehow he still cares, but also I think he's still. He's still scared by the previous Maybe we also have previous problem again.

What would he say he's scared of?

Scared that I. It's like I need a lot of space that I didn't give. It feels like I'm needy, I didn't give enough space and okay. And also that's why I feel a little bit bad because I think what I'm doing this morning is like makes, I think maybe makes him scared that I didn't give him any notification that I just appeared in front of his door. Of course he didn't invite me inside and probably he had Covid so I just gave him. I just hand over this test kit and he thanked me and yeah, then as I take care, I need to go to work. And then yeah, we. Yeah, that's it.

So you sort of hit the nail on the head for yourself there. Which is what is he scared of? That he won't have space and we're wondering if we're doing the right thing. And you've said you've in some ways invaded his space.

Yeah.

You can hear the disconnect there, can't you? She's closing the gap because that's what she values. At the same time ignoring what he values. And as a result he's not going to feel like she really gets him. It's not going to help, it's not going to make things better. We get confused by films like Love actually and lots of other rom coms where the big gesture or closing the gap and that's not really how life often works, especially when someone's just ended a relationship. So we've got to understand what other people, people value because otherwise the default is we give them what we value. Now many of you will be having your own opinions during this episode saying oh, just, just move on or oh, you know, you've got a chance, go for it. You'll have very different opinions. The thing is, my only interest as a coach is the health and well being of my client. That she's healing and doing better and doing well. It's not for me to say what she should and shouldn't do. I don't know, her ex partner, I don't know if they're supposed to be soul mates, I don't know. But I am interested in the health and well being and I do think that some space now is quite clearly needed because space will help her heal if this person isn't interested and he also values space. So if she can demonstrate that she can give space, he might start to recognize and see actually she does understand either way, though, we've perhaps started to remove some of this confusion that either way, the answer is space. And as I said, my only interest in the health and well being of the client. It sounds like space would be good.

You know, at the end of relationships, people do ask for space and we get confused because we see a load of rom coms and movies and things where there's the big gesture or there's the thing that we do and it all makes things okay again. Whereas in reality, if it was the other way around, if we said, look, we want space from this, from you, from someone, whether it's a friend or a partner, whoever, and that person was always there, always there, always there, we would find it quite annoying, or most importantly, that they don't really understand. You don't want to be around people who don't understand. I think what's important here is two things. One, really being aware of what your intention is, and two, probably understanding that for any of the intentions, space is required. Because closing the space when you're trying to get back together with someone who is, you're saying is scared about not having enough space is going to make it worse. Yeah, when it's being in terms of being friends, but they still want some space, the space that friends typically have, that will make things worse. And when you're trying to close the space, if you're trying to move on from someone and yet you're always in their vicinity in their presence, that's going to make you more anxious and stressed. And that's why space is required in that situation. So basically, in all scenarios, whatever you want, the answer is space. Now that's easier said than done. Right. I understand how painful it is and how uncomfortable it is. Which of those three is your real intention?

I think my, I think my real intention is I can improve or I can change myself or just we cannot adjust each other to trying to get back. Probably that's my extension. Sorry, My intention.

So that sounded like a combination of two different things. So in terms of improving yourself. So if we've got those three intentions, let's say in intent, one intention is that you're healing and feeling better. Another intention is being friends. And another intention is getting back together. Sounds like the top of that list is you getting better first. Is that, is that, is that fair? Is that the right, is that the right answer?

Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Okay, so that's what we need to talk about because I don't know what the future holds for you with this particular person. I don't know how things have progressed or escalated or whatever. I do remember you saying previously that there was. There was no way that he was ever going to be in contact with me. And the bit of time's gone by where you've done your own work on yourself and a little bit of space, it's opened the door again in some way, at least in terms of communication. That's proof. That's proof that space works, by the way.

It's proof.

It's proof that space works.

Yeah.

Now, the real thing, as you said, is my intention is getting better myself. If that's true, do not compromise it by putting him first. If you put him first again, ironically, it's not going to help with any of those intentions or scenarios. It's not. It actually isn't.

Yeah.

You being in a healthier, stronger place where regardless of what's going to happen, you can at least manage it more easily.

Yeah.

Is important and would help with any of those intentions, scenarios. But if truthfully, your intention is that you get better first, do not put him first. Do not put him before your health. I could tell you a hundred different ways in which you could do that, but I know, I've spoken with you a number of times. I know you're smart, I know you're intelligent. I know when you're doing well and things are going well. Right. That you've got good intentions and that you're a kind person and a giving person. I know all of that. But when we're struggling, it's a bit different. So let's pretend you're not in your own body right now. Let's pretend there's someone sat right next to you. That's the version of you that knows exactly what to do. Where your sat doesn't know what to do. But the person sat right next to you knows exactly what to do. No questions, knows exactly what to do. Absolutely sure of themselves. I would like you to ask them, how do they look after themselves? How do they heal? How do they put themselves first? So I would like you to turn to this person and firstly, maybe tell me before you answer that question, how does that person sit? Someone who's really, you know, confident, sure of themselves, healthy, feels good. How does that person next to you sit?

You might be wondering why on earth has David just asked, how does that person sit? Well, let me give you a bit of insight. There was a study done by Amy Cuddy from Harvard who found that when you adopt certain positions, it changes the hormone balance in the body. So if you stand Like Superman or Superwoman, with your hands on your hips, standing up straight, or you're lying back with your hands behind your head, and you do that for two minutes. It drops the cortisol, which is the stress hormone, by 25% and it boosts the testosterone, oxytocin, by 20%. So that's a 45% swing in your hormones in just two minutes. What the client is experiencing is a lot of cortisol amongst probably other hormones, stress hormones that probably taking over her body. And there's a phrase which is fear is physical. We try to work things out in our head, but actually when we're sad, stressed, anxious, fearful, you can feel it in your body, can't you? So how do you think we might want to make a change through our body, through our physiology, along with our focus on our language? So what I'm trying to get her to do here is, is see someone else achieving the results that she wants, get an understanding of that person. Sits, stands. Because all of these things shift the body in a way, and as a result, change how we think and feel. So I'm going to get her to define this new identity who has everything solved, because it's hard to sometimes drag ourselves to become something, but it's easy, easier to define an identity over there and step into it. So let's find out how she thinks. This person would sit, how they would stand and how they would behave.

Where are their shoulders? Where's their head? What do they do? Do they sit like this? Do they sit like this? How do they sit?

You want me to sit? Of course it sits comfortably.

Okay. They sit comfortably. Comfortably. Good. How do they breathe? Do they breathe or do they breathe nice and deep?

They breathe calm, I think.

Breathe calm, Absolutely, yeah. Good. They breathe calm. They sit comfortably. Where's their chin?

The chin should be horizontally.

Horizontally. Good. Yeah, Good, good. What do they do? What do they do with their arms when they're sitting? Right, so their chin's horizontal. They breathe calmly. They sit comfortably. What do they do with their arms?

Yeah. On the table or on the chair?

Okay, good. And what do they do with their feet? Do they have their legs crossed? Do they have their feet planted on the floor? Do they have their legs stretched out? What do they do? What does that person do?

I think legs crossed.

Legs crossed. Okay. All right. Give that version a name.

Confidential.

Okay. Okay, we can go for that. Confidentia. Okay. Hello, Confidentia. Nice to meet you. I've been speaking with a friend of yours for a little bit and she's been A little bit nervous and anxious. She's been back in contact with an ex partner. She doesn't know where she quite stands with this person. She thinks there might be a possibility of, you know, making things work, but she doesn't know what she's trying to do at the moment. But confidential. You seem like someone that is confidential of themselves. The way you sit, you smile and assert in a different way. You breathe in a different way. Your chin's horizontal. You look sure of yourself. I want you to help your friend. Your friend has just said to me, I need to put myself first and my health first and I need to know how to do that. Confidential. How can your friend do that? Because you look like you know how to do it.

Keep doing sports and put this eggs off for living. Not living. Let's put this egg off for a while. Creating space and then focus on herself again.

Work.

Work and life.

Okay, confidential. What sports do you play? Just out of interest?

Yeah, Boxing.

Boxing. Okay. Great. Awesome. Awesome. Okay. Some fighting spirit. I can see why you're. Why you're a confident person. Okay. And you've said that she needs to create some space. Why does your friends need to create some space?

Because her action not only brings anxiety to herself, but also brings pressure to her ex.

Great answer. Causes you. Causes her anxiety and puts pressure on him. Great answer. I think your friend will find that really, really helpful. Causes your friend anxiety and puts pressure on him. Causes her anxiety and puts pressure on him. So what you're saying is no one wins when you close the space. No one can win. He feels pressure, she feels anxiety. So, confidential, we're going to spend a bit more time just to help your friends a bit more because I think that's really, really helpful advice. Really helpful advice. Because to know that neither party in that situation wins in that way. You said about focusing on work, you said about focusing on life would be helpful for your friend. Can you give her a plan to implement?

At this moment, I don't have very detailed plans, but I think she need to keep on the things she has been done. She, she had been done for the first one or two months.

You said, you know, some of the things that she was doing earlier on were helpful and actually was getting her in a good place, good position. What were some of the things that she was doing earlier on that were helping her heal, helping her feel bit stronger, better about herself? Because when she had a bit more strength, I think she still found ways to look forward to the future by having things in her life to look Forward to that were aside from him. Because if all of our future is wrapped up in one source, even if we have that source, it's very tense and anxious because we just hope we never lose the source. Then we put that person or thing under too much pressure. What happens when there's too much pressure? Things break. So let's have a brief discussion about what the new strategy is. What would the strategy be?

That's a good question. That's the thing. I mean, actually I think she is exploring first being friends give space and then getting to know more about each other. I think it's a good strategy. But maybe she didn't. Her self control is not enough to implement this strategy.

Understood. So maybe we've got the right strategy but we're not implementing it as well as we could be. Or she's not implementing it. Implementing it as well as she could be doing. Okay, good.

Yeah.

What will help her Confidentia? What would help her implement it more effectively and more efficiently? And I'll give you, I'll. I'll give you a bit of help as well. Confidential in the sense that at the moment, the reason we make decisions is if we associate pleasure or pain with it, we act. If we associate more pleasure with doing one thing and more pain with doing something else. Essentially what we want to do is associate more pain with the behaviour we don't want to make and more pleasure with the behaviour we do want to take. Now I could really squeeze that, but before I even attempt to do that, because that will start to feel very uncomfortable. How can we associate more pleasure with implementing that strategy that she's got and more pain with disobeying that strategy? Confidential. How could she associate more pleasure with obeying the strategy and more pain with disobeying the strategy?

The pain is my anxiety and the pain hurting.

Her anxiety. Her anxiety, not your anxiety. Her anxiety. Yeah, good. Yeah, yeah.

Her anxiety and her anxiety, her worries and her fox lies on herself, on building up her own life. And the pleasure thing is she was challenging herself. If there was more movements, more progress, she felt a little bit more confident about herself.

Good. Really good.

So in the last part of that conversation, she'd shifted her physiology to this new identity of Confidentia. And that's the beauty of changing your physiology because it starts to change the way you think and feel. When we're happy, we smile, right? But science also shows that when we smile, it actually makes us happy. So shifting our physiology first, it doesn't mean it fixes and solves everything, but it helps Us become more solution focused, changes the hormone balance in the body. And as you saw, she started to provide the answers for herself. I didn't have to do much. She started to convince herself that space was needed. She started to talk herself through that and some of the other things that, you know, she needed to do or confidential as saying what this other version needed to do. When we adopt this new identity, we've got an identity of someone that doesn't have all the strings and the baggage and can see it from a different vantage point, a different perspective, and will continue to develop that identity because that will always be a place then she can go to where she doesn't feel quite as strong or as powerful or as decisive. She knows that she can adopt this identity. Maybe not all the time, but she'll get used to it. She'll become more comfortable with it. And it's from this place that she can maybe make decisions that really help empower her. And the last thing that she mentioned, which is perfect, is she talked about focusing on her own progress and growth. When we come out of relationships, our growth can feel stunted for quite a while. But even if you just start developing in some other areas of life, whether it's your friendships, your career, or your health or your spirituality or whatever it might be, your family, progress equals happiness. So finding growth in other areas, we start growing and then we start looking back and go, ha, if I was still in that relationship, I would never have grown in this way and made progress in this area and achieved this. Isn't that interesting? And so we start to see a different way that life can be because we all hold on to one picture of what we think a good life looks like. And when that picture gets torn up and thrown away, we think our life is over. But truthfully, there are 10 other pictures that we'd be perfectly happy with. Now, you don't have to see that picture straight away when you come out of a relationship because it's hard. You don't have to see that straight away, but I'm just planting a seed now that will later grow into something. And that's what we've done in this conversation. I'll continue to work with her, show her how to shift that hormone balance, how to find a new picture, a new compelling future, how to meet those human needs we spoke about earlier, how to master her emotions better. There's lots of things we'll talk about, but this is a good step in the right direction. This new identity allowing her to help her heal and develop for herself. My name is David Holman. If you change today, today will change your life. So enjoy the rest of your day.

Enjoy the rest of your life, and.

I'll speak to you again soon.

Sam.