Ep 350: [Live 1-2-1] Helping This Client with Uncertainty

An extraordinary conversation for me with you today. David would have some assistance in how to impart some news to my sister that I know is going to make her unhappy. I don't want to make her feel any shittier, but it's something she needs to know about her daughter.

The story you're about to hear is real. A real client working with David Holman to achieve extraordinary results. David has worked with high performers such as Olympic athletes and business owners, as well as those looking to develop meaningful relationships. Aside from names and certain characteristics which have been changed to protect clients confidentiality, all other details are true. This special season is brought to you by the Self Belief Chief podcast.

In today's episode, we're talking to an aunt who needs to share something with her sister about her niece. The niece is going to be going on a reality TV show, but the niece and her sister. So the niece's mother, don't have a great relationship at the moment and they're not really on speaking terms. So my client needs to share some information with her sister about this reality TV show that she thinks may cause her some anxiety.

Let's get into the episode.

She's gone and got herself a place on these reality TV shows. And it sounds like, from what I can understand, one of those Big Brother type things that she may get voted off, she may stay. If she stays, It'll be for 32 days. I'm feeling very, very nervous about telling my sister this information because she's hurting now and it's going to hurt her more.

Okay, so just so I understand, so it's your sister's daughter. She's potentially going on this. She is going on this particular show and you're also going to be taking care of some stuff while she's away. So just so I'm super clear, the specific reason why your sister will be.

Upset is what is because refuses to speak to her. So my sister's very upset and I'm quite concerned about what's going to happen on the show because I've kind of seen some of these reality things and we know what they're like.

Yeah.

So it's going to be an extra burden for my sister, but it has to come from me because her husband won't tell her, but I want to be there for her. So I feel. I feel like piggy in the middle.

Yeah, Understood. Okay. So the first thing to consider in these sorts of things is you're saying that I really don't want to hurt her. We in life, we can't really focus on not doing something. It's a bit like if I said to you, don't think of a polar bear. What are you thinking of? A polar bear. So we can't. Our brain can't work in the. I don't want to think of this or do this. So it all starts from what we do want to get out of this. Once we know that, then we'll be able to work out a strategy. Now, I'll say. I'll say up front, we're not going to come up with something that's going to make everyone, you know, rainbows and unicorns and sunshine and it's all perfect. But at least if we know what the bullseye is, we can. We can draw a nice straight line that you can go, okay, it's not gonna be easy, but that makes sense. So what would you like to get out of this situation?

I'd like to get out of it that she knows that she can trust me and be there for her. So, yeah, I'd like to get out of it that she. She knows she can trust me enough to impart information that I feel is important that she should know and that I'll be there to support her through it.

Perfect. Great. Great. That's a really, really good answer. So the bullseye is, as I've written down, she knows she can trust me and that I'll, you know, can be there for her as well. Perfect. Okay, so now we know the bullseye is. What we probably want to have a think about is that the issue here isn't the telling. The issue you're worrying about, a bit like that exercise you did with the pattern break. The issue is you're worrying about the consequences of telling her. Right. So let's just have a discussion about a few of those, and we can break down some of those elements. So, for example, look, we're saying when I think about talking to my sister about this particular situation, it makes me feel anxious and the consequences I worry about a lot. And let's just write down two or three. I can probably guess what they are, but I'd rather hear them from you. So what would be one consequence that you worry about here is the secret.

Of being able to handle your emotions better. Human beings are fantastic at dealing with one thing at a time, but terrible at dealing with four or five things simultaneously or multiple things simultaneously. The trigger here is that talking to my sister about this situation makes me feel anxious. It's a trigger, and it looks like one thing, but despite appearances, that is not one thing. There are various consequences that we're worrying about. There are multiple consequences and worries here that all contributed to this. So there's 2, 3, 4, 5 different things going on at the same time. And that's why she's struggling to know what to do.

So what we're going to do is.

We'Re going to write down each of the individual consequences and worries and then do what human beings are really good at, treat them one at a time. When we break it down a bit, she'll be able to see the solutions more easily. They might not be perfect solutions, but she'll feel like she's done as much as she can possibly do in this situation. So underneath this trigger, what is she really worrying about?

Okay, one would be that given the fragility of our reparation, it may affect that.

Okay, so it's sort of saying, look, if I have to tell this news, I'm worrying about that. We've just about got on a good footing again. Am I going to make things worse in some way, shape or form? Okay, what would be another consequence that you might be worrying about?

That it may affect her mental health even further?

And what would be the third consequence you worry about? So we've got, you know, relationship is fragile already. I'm worrying about affecting her mental health. What would be the third one.

That I know she's then going to be spending the next month on edge, wondering what the hell is happening to her daughter.

Yeah, good. Okay, so we've got three things here. So fragility of relationship, affect her mental health, and a month where she'll be a bit on edge. Okay, so let's do what human beings are good at. Let's look at each of those one at a time. Because it's the collective where it's like when it, when you think of all of those things together, it's like, oh, my God, I can't even work out what to do. It's just, there's no answer. Let's look at each part individually. So first part we talked about is the fragility of the relationship. Okay, so as we sort of looked at in that exercise that you did in the coursework, come up with rational solutions. Okay, so it might not be a perfect answer, but a rational solution where we go, okay, that would, that would probably make sense, or that would be more helpful if I did that. So if the consequence we're worrying about is, look, I worry about making the relationship worse, what could a rational solution to that part be? So I'm worrying about the fragility of the relationship. We've just got ourselves in a good place. What might the rational solution be?

For me to make it very clear that I will support her through it because I have no control over how she's going to react towards me. So I think the rational solution would be for me, however she reacts towards me, is to not take it personally.

Absolutely. So, yeah, that could absolutely be a rational solution. I'll help you develop that idea as well. So, yes, there's an aspect here which is, can we provide unconditional support? Because the, the reaction that she may or may not have. And we'll try and work out how to be able to influence the situation so the reaction is not too great, but you know, the reaction that you will have it. You're absolutely right. In the grand scheme of things, it will have very little, if not absolutely nothing to do with you in this situation. And we all have. We all take way too much credit for thinking that things and ways people react are about us. Way too much credit, Way too much credit. It's not really about us how people react. Because if someone's life is going awesome, how do you think they'll react? Right. So it's always about the state that someone is in. So when we talk about support, then we've got to ask ourselves the question, well, what is support? And the thing is that what most people do is most people support in the way they would like to be supported. So we need to have a think about what is the type of support that she would value. Feeling of connection some people, and touch some people. It's words of affirmation. We could talk about, Love, language, all sorts of different things. Someone else I spoke to a while back who said, look, I really want to help my sibling. Some of the stuff we've been doing so, so interesting and helpful. I just think it'd be so helpful for this person to hear it. But I don't know how to share this information that she really needs. And I said to her, people don't appreciate what you understand. They appreciate when they feel understood. I said, don't try and fix, help solve. That person does not want it. They want to feel understood. So part of this support isn't, oh my God, how can I accumulate all the resources and do the right thing? It's how do I make her feel understood? And part of that understanding is understanding the type of support that would be helpful to her and that she would need. So let's explore that just for a moment and go, okay, what ways would can we make her feel understood and in what ways would she best feel supported?

Not being a parent myself, I don't think I will totally be able to understand how she feels. However, as an aunt, I can understand the worry and the concern. And so therefore I think that is how perhaps I can convey to my sister that I understand her because whilst I'm not her and whilst Eve's not my daughter, that I also do have those potential same concerns. On the other hand, that me doing that might reinforce those concerns for her, which I don't want to do.

Yeah. And I might also suggest that, you know, you're right, if you're once removed and you're an aunt, then you don't have. Sometimes, for example, I have clients that are going through horrific things that I know nothing about. Part of the understanding is saying I can't possibly understand. And that is part of what understanding is because many people, and you'll have experienced this as well, where if you're going through heartbreak or you go through something else or something else, and people talk to you as if they know what you feel right now, but they don't and you're pissed off and you're like, you have no idea how I feel right now. And you're smiling and that's good. And part of the reason why that's good is. Part of the reason why that's good is we can sort of do that with your sister as well. Rather. Rather than go in and say, look, I know exactly how you feel. We can be honest and say, I don't. I'm sure it's really tough. I've only found out recently myself. I thought, thought about it and you know what? I can't possibly understand everything that you might feel with regards to this and. But I still want to. So what you're then doing is going, right, I'm being honest. And that person's going, right, okay, they're being honest about something that they can't do. So then there is a more open to then how we might do the next part, which is, okay, look, I actually don't know how you must feel at this particular point. I'm not going to pretend and say that I do, because I don't. And then the years are open, the wall isn't up. All of a sudden, all is down. Then in terms of bringing offer that support and provide that support is not coming from a place of I would know how to deal with this situation. So let me tell you how to do it. It's. I don't but you know what? I can still offer you this regardless. And that person can take it, they can leave it, they can use it. So let's go back to the question of how we think your sister would like support or how do you think she likes support to be supported in general? What would you say? Is it to do with the words someone says? Is it to do with physical touch? Is it to do with a gesture? What ways do you think she likes to feel supported or feel loved is probably a better word, actually.

Yeah, she feels loved when she feels heard.

Good. Yeah. So what that said, what that sort of says is. And helpful, especially when we don't know the right things to say is keep our mouth closed. So part of that is just being able to give people that wide berth. And actually a lot of, you know, I've had sessions with people where someone has talked for an hour, I've said absolutely nothing. And that person goes, oh, that was so helpful. Thank you so much. And I'm sort of like, what? I've done absolutely nothing. But to your point, you're absolutely right. Sometimes it's just that ability to feel heard. So that fragility of the relationship can be managed by saying, look, I'm not sitting here as a martyr and saying, I know exactly how you should feel and here's what to do. Because as you've just said, that's not what she wants anyway. It's doing it from the place of, look, I want to share some news. I'm not in your shoes. I don't know how you feel, truthfully. But look, I'm here to make sure that you get what you need. I'm happy to listen and just be someone that can be there and listen to you when you need to talk to someone about these things, it sounds like that meets a few things. You might still not get the perfect response, by the way, of course, but you have to accept that that person has the emotional reaction first, which is nothing to do with you. It's just how they feel and it's a pan, then that will calm down. And that if you haven't raised the temperature. Because what happens is if we raise the temperature because they react in one way and then we get hostile and react back, the invitation that we've provided them in terms of support, when they actually, a few days later go, actually, I think I need it, they go, crap, we've just blown the whole thing up. So maybe that invitation is not there anymore.

Yeah. Which is what happened when we fell out.

Right.

And it's happen.

Exactly. The second part you mentioned. In terms of the effect on her mental health, this can be something that brings you two together. Not straight away, but it could be because she really gets to see who you are in the toughest moments, who you are in terms of a relationship to her. Maybe all the other rubbish and crap that goes on in life. Yeah, we get annoyed with sisters, we fight. That happens when the chips are really down. And even if you say this and do this and whatever, blah, blah, blah, I am that sister.

Yeah.

And in that aspect, when you get deeper, closer relationships with your family or friends or whoever, that improves our mental health. So whilst it might be affected in one way, we could actually be boosting in another way. Regardless of all of that, I'm much more interested in terms of your thoughts and opinions. So in terms of our worry and consequence of would it affect her mental health in some way, shape or form? It might know, it might upset her, might make a worry and that's all fine. What do you think a rational solution could be to that aspect? In terms of it affecting her mental health, what could a rational solution to that be?

That's quite difficult one because my worry at the minute is that she may end up in that place that I was in when I first spoke to you and I so don't want that for her. I actually can't think of an answer.

Take your time. No rush at all. What I will say is that, that in life we can't, you know, we can't just hope that we never go through pain. A much better objective is that we go through life knowing to. Knowing how to handle pain. How do we help people feel loved? How do we help people feel supported in these times? I understand the reality show aspect of all of this because there's so much news about various things that happen with regards to those shows. But what's worth saying is it was also a very small percentage, the very much larger percentage, you know, and I'm not a big fan of reality shows. I'm not at all. But the larger percentage is, it's fine, it's okay. No, it's not the complete. The end of the world. It's just a very small percentage. But I understand why it still feels like a worry. So rather than going, oh my God, how do I avoid my sister having any struggle with her mental health? You know, if I, if I as a, as a coach had the objective of how do I make sure all my clients never experience any pain? I would fail every day.

Yeah.

So let's not set that objective ourselves. So it just goes back to that aspect of. Okay, how do I make sure that. And we can reframe it in a different way. What do you think helps your sister with her mental health?

I think it helps that. And because I know it is what helps me and it didn't happen for me. So it's that constant communication, not, oh, are you all right, sweetie? But a link to a meditation or. I sent her something yesterday, something that I was doing that's been helping me. And I don't say, try this, this is great. It works for me. I just send it.

Yeah.

So I think that. I know that kind of thing helps because she really is not one for being Molly.

Coddled. Yeah, fine. So if we know something that we go, okay, that helps. Success leaves clues. So it might be a case of going, look, okay, I'm just going to make sure. You might. You might even do it. As simple as I already sort of do this. What maybe I'll do is each week or twice a week, whatever it might be, I'm going to have it scheduled in my diary as a reminder. Go right. Send something out to my sister. Make sure I get that done. Just so. So, you know, not money cuddling her or sort of telling her to do this or that. Exactly the way that you described. If you think that's how she's receptive to it, where it's not, you need to do this. It's just this. And this might. You might like it or find it interesting. One of the consequences is just a feeling of a month or being on edge. So again, what might the rational solution be for that one?

I quite like to take her away from her environment because that's not helping. That's where she had her family. I could take her away for a long weekend to a cottage somewhere or somewhere in nature. I know it's been out in nature. So that. Because I know from my own experience, being out of the environment that's been torturing you can be helpful.

Absolutely, absolutely.

A different perspective.

Yeah, absolutely.

And I'd like to do that, too.

Yeah. Yeah. It's really, really just an excuse for you to have a long weekend. But no, absolutely. No, absolutely. I think it's a great idea. So I. Absolutely. I think it's a great idea. Great idea. So what we've got here. Let's just go back through this again. So we've got. Look, David, I'm a little bit worried about the fragility of the relationship. We say, look, okay, so here's the situation. I can't possibly understand how you might feel. I can't possibly understand how you might feel about it. But I'm here to listen. That's the first part then about her mental health or whether there'll be effect as well. Look, I actually know little things that can help her with that aspect of it doesn't solve everything but makes it better. So look, I'm going to keep sending her some meditations. Maybe I'll schedule that in. So I just do it a bit more consistently, make sure she has some fun experiences as well. And then if there's be a month on edge, why don't we break the month up, have a long weekend away and by all means, these are, by the way, all really good answers. All really good answers. What would be even better is you don't set the expectation that she'll appreciate all of them.

Yeah.

As I e appreciating what is available, you do have who is there. Life is so much better. So the one thing mistake people will make with this sort of thing is to go, oh, these okay, there's some good answers. Or that would be helpful. Or that would be more. That's a good direction. And then as if that person will be able to have the same reasonable conversation we're having. Yeah, but we're not the one who it's happening too. So I think they're all good answers and I think what you can do is as long you can almost pat yourself on the back and reward yourself for the doing of them, not for the response that you get.

Yeah. Then I just wanted to pick up on that reward for doing it. I'm being very honest with myself when I say I'm going to be there for her throughout all of this. Where the fuck was she when I needed her?

I wanted to jump in here because I think it's really important what just happened. And it's actually very common. See, we can have the best intentions, we can want to help people and do things. And then when we start working, working out a solution that we think is actually helpful for someone, we can kind of go, well, why isn't anyone doing that for me? I want to show the client that that's not her. That's a different voice. And I want to explain where that voice is coming through from and actually what part of the brain provides this type of feedback. We don't like to think in these terms, but we have that voice that says things like this. Now I could go into a much longer, deeper conversation with her about why she feels that way, and it'll be worth me doing that. But I actually just want to separate it out so that she can not respond and react to that voice and use that voice that says, why is no one doing this for me me? Because that will interfere and affect the conversation she will go to have with her sister. So it's really important I do something right now immediately to make sure that she's going to be able to have that productive conversation. That voice from the client that just said, why the fuck did she not do this for me? That would have come from the limbic. A very small, tiny piece of the brain. It might even be described as where our irrational thought process comes from. So I'm just going to tell her a little bit more about that and see what she thinks.

That voice that just shouted off there in that moment, which is, hang on a minute, that is not you.

Okay?

That is a tiny piece of your brain that goes into survival mode. That part of your brain that just shouted off there is something that goes, well, hang on. For me to survive, not really, but once upon a time, this was the case. To survive, I need this trading aspect here. I need to do things, and this person needs to do things for me. And back and forth, back and forth. That needs to happen. That's not true anymore. But our brain is built the same way. Anytime you have that response, you've just had to imagine it's a tiny piece of your brain that you've taken out and you put over here, and it's not you. And I want you to think of. Did you have a favorite. I don't know, did you have a favorite toy when you were younger or cartoon character or something? When you were younger or little? That was just your favorite show. What would that be? Who would that be?

It would be Snowy, my teddy bear.

No, either teddy bear. Okay. This piece of brain is called Snowy the Teddy Bear.

Okay.

It's got a good smile on your face, which is great. The reason why that will help and help with lots of different aspects of life, by the way, is when it feels like it's us saying these things, it feels very threatening and very intense.

It makes me feel bad.

Exactly. And makes you feel bad. But when it's Snowy the Teddy bear saying it to us, yeah, we don't really care. For me, call it Thomas the Tank Engine. If Thomas the Tank Engine goes, oh, I'm really worried about this, and maybe you're not good at this. And, oh, my God, what's going to happen here? It's Thomas the Tank Engine. Okay, cool. Right. Thank you, Thomas. Right. And the threat goes. Now there's no threat. And it turns it back into, let me work with Thomas the Tank Engine. Right. Instead of working against myself, let me work with something else. So that piece of your brain that did that, that happens to everyone. Everyone does that. Everyone has that. But it's not you. And the better that you can be over time of starting to genuinely see that as not you and that. It's Snowy the teddy bear.

I like that.

Yeah, good. It's Snowy the teddy bear. And even in this whole thing we're talking about today and the worries and anxiety around it or anything like that, any of those fears and feelings is Snowy the teddy bear. And Snowy the teddy bear will make sure it's okay. And Snowy the teddy bear only has one purpose and one purpose only.

Yeah, I feel good about it now. I feel better, I feel calmer, and I feel that I can help.

So in that session, we took the trigger thing that was bothering her. We actually broke it down by the consequences and worries because that's the stuff that's really going on. And then we handled each piece individually. She now has the strategies that she thinks can best influence the situation. She can't control how the other person will react, but she can influence as best as she can. But she's also got that small way of describing that piece of the brain just in case it does feel like it's scared or panicky or concerned about something or angry. Just a way for her to calm that back down again. It's a very simple exercise and something that you can do with anything that you're worrying about at the moment. Because we all have worries, right? My name is David Holman. If you change today, today will change your life. So enjoy the rest of your day, enjoy the rest of your life, and I'll speak to you again soon.

Sam.