Gratitude, Gratitude, Gratitude ft. Kerry Wekelo | Ep. 115

People seem to forget if you change today, today will change your life. For a limited time only. For those of you enjoying the podcast, I'm offering a free coaching session. That's right, a free coaching session for those of you who want to improve in their performance or their business or their relationships or any other area where confidence is a key ingredient. Then on the Self Belief Chief site, on the podcast page, self beliefs.com podcast underneath the episodes, you'll be able to book your own coaching session for free with me or wherever you're listening to the podcast. In the description, there'll also be a link to be able to book your session. I look forward to speaking to you soon. And let's get on with the podcast. Kerry, thank you very much for joining the podcast. We were just talking about crazy world that we live in right now. We spoke. Luckily your family sounds like they're doing well. How are things been going for you on a business front? How have you been able to sort of pivot during these very strange times?

Yes, luckily, as you said, everybody's healthy. Within my family and my friends, from a business perspective, we were very fortunate that we had mainly been remote working and then going to the clients as we had needs. So we were able to pivot quite well. And we were really focused on helping our clients understand how to continuously move forward based on all of our experience of being able to work remotely and then internally, what we did with our teams is we had a lot of events in person events that were canceled. So we've moved to virtual monthly events. We've done cooking, class, comedy, magic shows, just more team building. The partners have started doing partner chats where we just have a couple of our people together just to really try to make sure that we're staying connected with our team members. So that's really been our focus. And you know, we didn't finish the year out exactly how we, you know, we had planned, but we're profitable, we're doing well, and we feel very grateful for that continuous forward movement.

I'm glad to hear that. And lots of people got very, lots of weird and wonderful interesting ways to pivot. And I think it builds a lot of confidence for the future as well that we can adapt in such a way. So, Kerry, before we talk about any of the more interesting and intricate things that you do, it'd be great just for people who might not be so familiar with you, just if you're happy to tell us a little bit more about yourself and sort of the journey that you've been on up till this point.

Wow.

Okay.

So I have always been in consulting as a career and I'm the chief operating officer of a financial services consulting firm right now. I've been with actualized consulting for the last 15 years and very operationally focused. But my passion is around creating a thriving organizational culture not only for actualized but for our clients. So that's really what I, you know, wake up every day is like how I'm going to make this a good place to work. And then on a personal side I have two kids, a girl and a boy, which are just keep me inspired as well. And then I'm really into more mindfulness and really being able to self regulate. And especially in these very challenging times, I've found that I'm really grateful for that toolbox because I've had to use it quite a bit this year. It's been challenging for everybody.

Absolutely, absolutely. I understand exactly what you mean about that toolbox. And your clients ask you questions that not necessarily questions you've ever had to face before. Now I've found that with myself, with my clients where all of a sudden they'll ask you questions and you think, well this is, I'm learning this stuff as I go in this current climate in this particular year of how to adapt to these sorts of things and you pull out all your resources and I think lots of people, you know, it's tough times for everyone but it's an opportunity rather than to complain about resources is learn how to be more resourceful. And it's something sounds like very much you've been able to do for yourself. If you don't mind me asking Kerry, what aspects have been the struggle for you in particular?

Well, I'd say that the lockdowns and not being able to do the things that I just normally would do, it was been very fascinating that that has taken a toll on me to be able to just go. I have a very adventurous spirit. I like to explore different places, I love to travel and you know, not being able to just get on a plane has, has been challenging. And then also I think I'm. I don't think I know I'm a very sensitive person and it's been hard for me just to witness, you know, how many people have been struggling not only health wise but financially during this. So it's made me be even more grateful for the abundance I have and you know that we've still been able to continue to thrive as an organization and you know, with my family being, being healthy. So it really Puts perspective on things, but I don't want to lose sight of that. There's so many people that are really, you know, struggling out there. So my little. I can't travel. Doesn't really even seem big. Right. But it's. It was hard for me to stay kind of put. It was interesting. I was like, wow, this is harder than I ever imagined.

Yeah. Yeah. For those who do have an adventurous streak and enjoy sort of breaking those daily patterns by exploring and seeing different things. And I always think a change of scenery is a great way for people to cut the strings of their sort of everyday life or their work just for period of time. So that being taken away from people just accumulate has that accumulating compounding effect of not being able to break our own patterns, which is something we need to consistently do. Which really leads us on to wellness and self care. And it's something that you obviously spend a lot of. We've dedicated a lot of your life to doing so. But to help others do so in different contexts. Can I ask you, your first encounter with self care and what I mean by that is the time you realize that actually becoming more mindful and especially you do a lot of work around gratitude, becoming more mindful, finding gratitude for yourself. I think for most people who operate in this space, they initially see the benefit for themselves and then they go, wow, this is something I want to share and provide value for other people. So what was your moment or what was your first encounter where you found being more mindful, being more grateful really, really served you well?

Yeah. As you were asking, I was trying to pinpoint a good moment. I think it was gradual and I think in general that I've my mindset. I was kind of born with more this positive grateful type of nature, but doesn't mean I was always practicing it on a regular basis. Right. But I think it's like it's my nature to be that type of person. But what, what happened was, is I've always been into movement and working out and. But I was very focused on running and harder core activities. And then my dad, I was always big on, you should do yoga. When I got. When I was pregnant with my daughter, I was very achy, I couldn't run. So I was like, okay, fine, I'll do the yoga, like whatever, I'll give it a go. And so I did yoga when I was pregnant with her. Then of course I stopped and then one of my friends got sick and we were playing tennis and the only thing she could do was yoga. So I started back into the yoga, and then I got so into it. I started. I was like, you know what? I'm going to do my yoga certification, like a teacher training program. And in those weekends when I was doing the training, there was a lot of time for us to sit and reflect and meditation. And that's where I realized that I had never been. I wasn't slowing down. Like, even when I was doing yoga. The other times when you have, like, the resting piece at the end, I would skip it. Like, I don't need that. I would just move along. But when I started really sitting and being quiet with myself, that's when, like, problems that I was having at work, challenges that we were facing. I was coming up with all these really great ideas that were going to help move our organization forward. And I remember I work. My brother owns actualized, and he was like, what are you. Like, what are you doing? Exactly like he did. He was. He was even noticing and witnessing how clear I was. And that's when I just had this, okay, you know what? There's something in actually slowing down, taking care of yourself and not pushing forward constantly. And that's what I was doing on a regular basis. And now I crave that more downtime.

Well, and I'm sure you forgot to appreciate your downtime during this. During this year.

I keep reminding myself it's, you know, it's. And that's what I always tell people, too, that this is something that I'm super focused on, yet I have to keep reminding myself. I have to pull out all my own personal tools to keep moving forward in a positive light. It doesn't. It takes practice, like, everything.

Absolutely. And that's, you know, with things like meditation, for example, when I have conversations with people who want to get into meditation and they. They get into it and then they go, oh, I wasn't. I didn't get deep enough with my meditation, or I didn't feel quite as grateful. I wasn't. I wasn't. So sort of, I didn't get myself into a different headspace or I didn't do it long enough. People get confused, I think, with things like meditation and gratitude, where they start focusing on being good at meditation rather than just meditation, you know, and the focus being, you know, the point isn't to be good at meditation. The point is to be better at life. And that's why we get into meditation and gratitude and things like that. And to your point, some people, you know, they try yoga or they try gratitude, try the meditation. They try it A few times and they go, oh, well, it's not really having a lasting impact. Well, it's not having a lasting impact. They've only tried it a few times. The second part is that they want to be instantly good at the activity rather than actually what's the reason why you do it in the first place. To improve the quality of your life, not to be good at the thing itself. I think I always find that distinction is an important one for people because sometimes people go, they measure themselves on how grateful are they when they do a gratitude, you know, when they do a gratitude practice rather than getting into being grateful, they're assessing whether they're being grateful enough and they set their own bar, they set their own expectation and then how they feel is based on, you know, are they grateful enough or are they not grateful or whatever it might be. And then they start assessing it rather than embracing it. So what I'd love to know from you, Kerry, is how you managed to integrate gratitude into these work environments and really get people on board with, you know, businesses pursuing a people first culture. I used to work in a corporate environment and I know how difficult it is for business to go, well, we want to be people first, but you know, we've got to think about the finances, we're going to think about margins or we're going to do all this other stuff. And all of this other stuff is more important and they want, they sort of go, show me measurably, if I put people first, how it improves our bottom line. And that's how most businesses think. And it's whether it's slightly backwards or whether there is in fact good evidence that if you do put people first, then it does help the business thrive. I'd love to know a bit more in terms of how you start to integrate gratitude into businesses at the different levels and in the different layers.

Sure. And I'll answer your question too about the return on investment of your people. And when I start, and I've been very focused on our people for the last 10 years, when I, I realized our turnover rates were at 33% and we that cost the firm money. Right. Recruiting and re recruiting top talent into your organization. And when I went to the partners to ask like, let's shift and put our focus on our people, I didn't have a huge grand plan other than, well, we need to retain our people because this is costing us money. And then now we've made maintain less than 4% turnover in the last four years. We've had years where we didn't even lose any people. And you're going to lose people because they might have a better opportunity or something like that. But we're not losing people because they're not happy with what they're doing at work each day because we actually truly do listen to what their needs and aspirations are. So I'd say the first way to integrate a culture where your people are first and is really around how you're setting your goals and you're measuring your performance as an organization. And a few years ago we shifted where we have our actualized goals and then you choose which ones of those you'd like to be a part of to help continue the firm grow. And then we also have a list of self reflection questions such as, you know, what do you like most about your job? What do you want to accomplish this year? Are there any roadblocks that you are facing? How can we help you be more successful? And those are just a few, but that's really where we get all of our information and so that really helps to facilitate the conversation with supervisors and the team members. And then even I'm personally looking at all of that and I'll follow up individually and especially if people have ideas. So you know, when I look at gratitude and your people, like that's a form of it, right? You are respecting your people enough to really want to know what their, their aspirations are and you're providing an opportunity for them to be successful. Right. So that's, that's the first way. And then with gratitude I think it's every. I have a culture. My first book is Culture Infusion. My second book is Gratitude Infusion. And I use the word infusion because you have to consistently infuse the principles into the day to day. It can't be a one time event. And there's many things that we do on gratitude from that we promote a culture that we want you to tell us if you got kudos from your clients, forward it to us. We put it in our newsletter. We want to hear about every single success and we will publicize it within, within the company. You can also acknowledge your peers as star players or an awesome team player award. So we give the opportunity for you to ask not only our clients recognize our people, but if you're seeing a team member that's doing a really good job or somebody that reports to you is, you know, make sure that you're recognizing them. So we have programs like that in place as well. And those are just a couple examples and they're super Easy, they don't cost any money. And it just really starts to create this culture in which people want to raise each other up and share in people's success. And it's really brings people together and connects us more as an organization. And people all the time say it feels more like family than a corporate environment.

That's great. And when I have conversations with people about organization, culture and integrating things like gratitude, there's always, well, there's always multiple parts. And the things that you mentioned, absolutely, I can can see and recognize the benefits of those. And then people within our company, they want to be in an organization where they get respected and the company says we are grateful that you are here and for the value that you provide. There's always the bit though that I find whenever I do have conversations with people about business or their business is actually the individual's responsibility for gratitude. So a bit to touch on your point that you're mentioning earlier in terms of yourself, it's a constant, never ending work on myself. So you can create the culture where we recognize and value other people and we show that appreciation for the people working for us and they raised and therefore their value raises what might be integrated, that the individual pays more attention and takes more attention not just to respect and credit others, but to do that better for themselves. If that makes sense.

Yeah, no, absolutely it makes sense. And well, first, and I have a chapter in my book about this is to receive gratitude as a gift. That's the number one thing. If somebody is being grateful for something that you've done instead of just brushing off, it was like no big deal. I had a friend once tell me that if you just simply say thank you, you're actually rejecting the gift. Right. Of gratitude. So the first thing is to receive gratitude. The second, and this is actually something that I do with my internal team at Actualize on a weekly basis. And it's something that I have to remember too. So I even made notepads. But personally you look at what are you grateful for? For yourself. So to facilitate gratitude in yourself, it's like you need to be like, it's yes, I'm grateful for other people, but what am I personally grateful for that I've done this week or today or this month? Right. Like how have I been showing up in a positive way? So you have to really go inward with it as well. And so what we do on a weekly bas, we share that inward gratitude. We also share external gratitude. And then the third component is what wins have you had in the past and we do it on a weekly basis. But what are the wins that you've had? And it's important to realize that because when you. Many days, I feel like, you know, I haven't accomplished anything. I'm just. Like you said earlier, it's like, I'm sorry, tough on myself because we're our worst critics. But then when I sit down and I'm like, wow, okay, I have accomplished a lot this week or this month. And I actually was just talking to a friend before we got on this call. And we're gonna do that as a New Year's for 2021. We're going to list out all of our wins for 2020. We're going to talk about them and share in those. And I'm super excited. And I think it's something that we, we don't do. We're so focused on what could we be doing better, to your point, but focusing on, okay, what are the wins? And it could be as simple as I worked out today. It doesn't have to be huge.

Absolutely. And with gratitude, I think often the problem for people is or are the rules that they set. As in, I will be grateful when this happens, and that bar will be set at something like, I will be grateful when I have, you know, maximize my potential on this particular project. Or they might be grateful for, I will be grateful once I've met the love of my life. Or I will be grateful. And the ball is often so high for lots of people, as in the time I will be grateful for when it's this. We create so many rules that can actually make us feel bad. And those rules only have a few ways for us to feel like we're actually winning. And so with wins, as you mentioned, I think people, you know, I used to sit in meetings with people. People go, I've not really achieved anything or won. And then you've quickly find out, well, they've actually got four or five things. It's just that their bar for a win is much higher. And actually it's a. Creating a game where they can't win. It's like, well, no, I am. I'm only good enough if I reach this particular level. The more grateful you can be for the simplest thing, the more grateful you become for everything else. And I think that was one of the things I had to learn about gratitude, was actually, you've got to be. You've got to find a way to be more grateful for really basic, tiny, small things. Because once you can do that, then really it stacks very Quickly. You add up so many things that we're grateful for. I want to ask you, you know, I won't say everyone. Most people, I think so outside the space, they hear gratitude and they kind of nod along. Yeah, yeah, I should be more like. It's a sort of. They know intellectually they should be more grateful, but they don't actually do anything about it or they don't practice it, or they don't really know how to do it effectively. Can I ask you, you might not have thought of this before. What do you think lots of people get wrong, misunderstand about gratitude. That means maybe they don't embrace it the way that they could or should.

That's a really good question. I mean, I think you touched on it before as well, that when people are looking at gratitude, it's. They feel like it has to be huge versus I coach people on, just find a couple, you know, find something small. And I think it's just like, you know, okay, I'm going to go on a diet. I'm going to work out. I'm going to practice gratitude. I'm going to write in my journal. It's these things that you think you have to do. And I think what I. The biggest lesson I've learned for myself is that I can't beat myself up too much if I don't practice gratitude one day or I don't, you know, I have the ice cream, too much ice cream the day before. Right. Like, you know, you, you do the best you can each day and then you start again the next day with the intention that you are going to be your best self. And if you just keep that cycle and you add in mindfulness and gratitude, it's. I'll go back to my toolbox. Like, don't feel like you have to do it every day. Yes, that's great. But don't beat yourself up. Like, just know that it's something that if you are feeling poorly or depressed or frustrated, using gratitude is a really quick way to pivot to something that's outside of yourself. Right. So use it as a tool, I'd say, and not. Don't, don't beat yourself up.

I think that's a really important point. And what I was thinking when you said that is, you know, I work with people. One of the things I do is I work with people who are coming out of relationships and to find ways to use that discomfort or pain that they go through to actually maybe answer questions that they couldn't answer before because you said, you know, when you come out of a relationship, you have a bit of an out of body experience. Well, actually with that different perspective, you have a new toolbox to solve and answer things that you couldn't do before and actually achieve some of the best things that you might do in your life and actually make the most of that time. The reason why I bring that up is because I can't tell people to be grateful because in those, in the really tough moments of life, you don't feel gratitude. I don't know whether you've experienced that, Kerry, when you, you know, some of the toughest things that we go through, it takes a while to feel grateful again. So I like your point that it doesn't, you know, we don't. Gratitude doesn't have to be rammed down people's throats in terms of it's, it's used in the appropriate way. It doesn't have to be perfect all the time. It doesn't have to be used all of the time. But there's a reason why it's a constant buzzword and something that should be embraced. And I'm sure part of what helps your culture is, like you said, it's not a one time, you do it once and it's a quick fix. It's a consistent, never ending process. So that when you do have those tough moments, the really tough moments, you have a backlog of. Actually, I've been practicing this. I've been sharpening my tools for such a long time that it gives me a better chance of dealing with when the tough moments do hit or do come about. So I like that it's not a, you know, you don't have. Saying you don't have to beat yourself up about it, I think is a good point, really important point. And so I want to touch onto something which I think lots of. I thought, well, I've been getting lots of questions about or thoughts from people, the podcast and my clients are saying that this year has made them realize that maybe their work life balance was wrong. Either they did too much traveling, worked too hard, or they've realized that being at home a little bit more or being around their loved ones that actually that maybe they've got the balance wrong. I know that's something that you have a hand in helping people with or you'll have your, your views and perspective on. I wanted to know what people can be doing to really enhance that work life balance so that going into 2021, as things start to free up a bit again, that people feel like they can get the balance right.

Right. I think, and being somebody who has worked and I know most people, and it seems like it's going to be way into 2021 that we're still working remotely or most of us. I think it's really important to set boundaries with your work and your personal life. And I've been working from home for 15 years, so I have a lot of experience with that. And with it comes a lot of flexibility, too. But there has to be boundaries with, you know, the work and, you know, work in your. In your personal life. So I'd say that's the number one thing. But as it continues to be harder to kind of really focus on ourselves because there is so much still going on around us right now, the other thing that I really encourage people to do is take a moment like what brings you joy, what inspires you, what lights you up, and making sure that you're doing something for yourself each day. And again, I go back to, it can be really small and it can build, but take five minutes for yourself each day, because as you're working, you're, you know, it's easier to be online because you're working from home. You have family demands, kids, loved ones, all these different things that are, you know, kind of being tossed at you. But really taking that time for yourself each day, that's going to allow you to have more balance over time. If you're really focused on what individually inspires you and make a list and just try to do something small each day, and I promise it makes a huge difference.

It brought me back. You talking about that brought me back to when I started working from home. And when you sort of have your own ideas in terms of, you know, you find your passion or people listening might be business owners or entrepreneurs or whatever, and you almost plan for everything except for that bit of, actually, I'm spending a lot more time by myself, or I'm not. I'm not fuller. I'm not surrounded by people all the time in an office environment or whatever work environment might be. And I remember finding that so incredibly difficult, partly because I just hadn't expected it, but it was such a difficult thing to get my head around. And I'm sure lots of people this year have started to find that, you know, you're still working from home every day as you might be when you're just starting business or something along those lines. It's a really tough psychological thing. I want to ask, when you said you've been working from home for 15 years, when you Started working from home, did you have initial struggles? Did you have some sort of thing? You know, you gave us some ideas in terms of how to kind of combat the way to find some balance. But what was it like when you sort of started working from home 15 years ago?

It was a long time ago, but it definitely, you're right then. Not being able to interact with people on day to day basis, being able just to stop by somebody's desk and ask them a question, it really. You do feel isolated. Right. So that's why I feel like I've been in a really good position to help people this year is that then I went into okay, well how do I make it better? How do I connect with people? And then as our business continued to grow over the years, how do I keep us all connected when we're in different locations or at different client sites, we're all dispersed. And so it's really how do you connect with people, you know, via. And I think it's important to understand like people on your team and that you're working with or your clients, how do they like to engage? You know, I know some people like to do instant messaging. They prefer to do the video calls or just a phone call or you know, an email. But be creative, understand what you personally need and what other people need and really try to focus on how you can connect at a more personal level. Because it does get very, very lonely. You're all by yourself all the time.

It's just, I couldn't believe I sort of had planned I'd mapped out everything except that. And it's just, it can be such a shock to the system. And I think people, other people can avoid getting into business for themselves or sort of embracing a career that might be more for them through fear of that type of thing. And they don't, they sort of wonder what would that be like if I sort of spent more time just me not being surrounded by people. But this year has been a good. People have had, you know, they've had to embrace self care. This year you don't have a choice now. It's, you know, you spend more time, you got a bit more thinking time or more time away or your patterns been broken up or you don't have change of scenery. And it really, you know, it's hopefully from a mindfulness point of view, it really stands people in good stead going forward. I wanted to ask you when you, you know, when you first started sort of on this particular journey that you, you feel like you've been on this is obviously something you're very passionate about. I can obviously hear that. And maybe you've got some stories of the value that you've provided people. Maybe you've got some stories in your mind that really stand out to you that kind of lit you up and made you go, you know what? Actually the work that I'm doing, it really does make a difference to the quality of people's lives. And it might be that, you know, you sort of obviously makes you feel good, but you probably have immense pride for the, for the people who really benefited from your help and support. So do you have some stories that really stand out to you?

Yeah, I'd say there's a technique that I use that I feel like has benefited quite a few people over the years and myself personally, and it's called the 3Pmethod. And it's pausing to pivot to a positive. And in that pause, you. It's a pause in gratitude. What am I grateful for in this moment? And as we were talking about earlier, sometimes you might have to spend a lot of time in that pause. But if you can focus on gratitude and how you, if you and your mindset, how you're going to move forward, whether it be a positive possibility, whether it just be a lesson, and maybe there's not a positive outcome to the challenge that you're facing. Right. So I've been able to use that internally within our organization with our clients, friends, family. And what I found is this. There's like this cumulative impact of whenever I'm faced with a challenge, I almost look at it as a personal, okay, I got this. How quickly am I going to move forward? And so I feel like that's been something that it resonates with everybody, that kind of moving forward mentality. And a story on when I personally used it and I talk about it in my book. But I had a finance manager who was with me for 13 years and she gave two weeks notice. There was a big key person dependency. And I was. Had all kinds of emotions from anger to disappointment to anxiety to, oh, my goodness, how am I going to run the accounting and finance piece of the business? Right? But what I did is I had to have this conversation with myself of, okay, she served us for these 13 years. I was very, very, very, very focused on the gratitude for her versus any of the negative emotions. And that really helped me move forward with my team. My new hires, I had them laser focused. And to this day they're like, you know, we still don't understand how you are Able to stay so laser, laser focused on that forward movement and gratitude when it was a very, very challenging time for the organization. And, you know, I think it was just me pulling out my tools, something that I teach on a regular basis. So not only does it help others, but it helps me personally.

That's great. You know, those, those moments, especially when people are sort of starting out to see, you know, they feel like they have something to offer or, you know, provide some sort of value. But you also, when you're in the early stages of either embracing that type of thing or trying to help other people with that type of thing, you sort of need some. You don't crave the feedback, but you need some sort of feedback to know this stuff works. So it's really nice to, you know, you need that early on. After a while, you sort of realize, actually this stuff does work and it does help other people. But it's always nice to hear some of the people's stories to know that whatever sticks out in their mind is the explanation or the evidence that what they do really works. And I can pull out a few stories in my head of those moments that I needed to also make me feel like, yes, they, this is, this is of value to other people. I love, I love challenges. And sometimes with the people I work with, sometimes you need to, you know, you teach them different strategies or different exercises, but sometimes really to test these things, you need to give them a challenge. Something that I sometimes get people to do is, can you go ten days without dwelling on a negative thought for more than 60 seconds? And something as simple as that, where, yes, you're going to have negative thoughts, but in that time, probably very aligned to the stuff that you do in that time. Can you focus on solutions, not problems? Can you ask yourself better questions rather than going, am I not good enough? It's asking us those questions, like you said, in terms of, well, okay, what can I learn from this? How does this help me grow? Why will this help me succeed? And asking ourselves more intelligent questions so we get better answers and as you said, sort of has that accumulative effect. One of the things I noticed when I was sort of going through some of your content is you had gratitude challenges. And so I don't know if it's a challenge, maybe necessarily in the same way as the type that I referred to, but if gratitude challenges are something that you embrace or that you have a kind of a framework in terms of actually this is a way to challenge yourself to become more grateful. What do those I've just had a curiosity. What does a gratitude challenge look like if that is something that you do?

Yeah, no, absolutely. And I've done it personally. I've done it in conjunction with other people in my industry as well to collaborate. But the first gratitude challenge I did, I just did it personally with my, with my kids. And I. Each day I did a video or I sent out a little, you know, prompt on something to be grateful for. And it was interesting because when I decided I was going to do it and people were, they were like, well, how are you going to be grateful for in different ways for 30 days, right? And it was for one day I was like, be grateful for. And I'm just going to give a couple examples. Grateful for somebody who you've learned something from. Right. Another one is to share outward grateful and just smile at people. Just engage as you're going about your day. Really be grateful that you're showing up and, and that other people are around and just giving like that outward gratitude of a smile. Also, I did, you know, for my neighbors, I made like a little treat. So just like, I really was just each day focused on how can I be grateful and spread that out into the world. And, you know, I did that for 30 days. And then that's when people started contacting me to kind of collaborate and do other gratitude challenges. And I, I have, I keep a journal. And it's so funny when I'm doing those challenges is when I'm in a really good space. So maybe you're inspiring me. I need to do a new gratitude challenge upcoming. Thanks for the reminder.

So for me, these sorts of challenges, I think I like them because sometimes you just need a little prompt, a little reminder. And you sound to be maybe a. Maybe a similar type to myself in terms of when I was listening to you talk about fitness and you. So having that drive and that sort of commitment to, you know, with the running and to really kind of push yourself and push your kind of your levels and raise your levels and raise your standards. And I've sort of had a similar mindset. I used to be an athlete, so I kind of understand that headspace as well. Sometimes setting things as a challenge is just a good way for me to really be motivated to do these things. But just find, you know, seven to 10 days is what it takes to turn a commitment into a habit. Something that we can embrace longer term. Why? I hear plenty of people talk about gratitude and they talk about it in a sense of, oh, this is, this is something you you know, this is a way to be more grateful. And I don't always hear people talk about challenges. You know, can you do it for 30 days? We're not saying you have to do it forever. Can you do it for 30 days? Why do you find challenges important or why do you do challenges? Because lots of people will just stick at the. I'll try and be grateful. But why do you embrace challenges or try to get other people to embrace challenges?

I think it goes to exactly what you're saying about. I mean, I've always been an athlete as well. And it is that dedication and focus and it's a reminder and if you, if you sign up for something then, and you are doing it in a group, you're more accountable. I believe right now I'm doing this fitness challenge with some girlfriends and there's been days when, and it's only a 20 minute commitment, this program. And I found that there's days I didn't want to do it, but I knew because there, you know, I was committed to these other people. So I feel like when you're doing it in a group setting, it makes you be more accountable and you want to be a part of that community and connect with other people. And sometimes I'll just do my own personal challenges as well. But it helps me focus my energy because I find that there's all types of things that I want to be focused on. But what am I choosing to focus on this month or this week? Right. And I've gone years where I've had a monthly theme of what am I going to focus on this month? And I just find that it really helps you to be successful. And whatever you want to accomplish, if you challenge yourself, you commit to it. And especially if you get other people on board, I find you can be a lot more successful and it's more fun when you have other people involved in what you're doing.

Absolutely, absolutely. I think that's a really important point and distinction that you made in terms of focus that, you know, obviously our brain is designed to help us survive, not to make us happy. And without intentional focus, you know, our brain is. Will happily wander in different directions. When I do value lists with people and you know, I'll ask you, well, what are your values? Now most people don't necessarily know what their values are. So it'll take them some time, then they'll write their values down and then we'll look at the order of the values and actually look at, well, are they in the right order for you to really maximize your ability to be happy, to be grateful. Are they in the appropriate order? And usually they go, actually, you know what, I need to shift the order a little bit here. I mentioned that because absolutely, to your point, you got that clear. Focus on something that absolutely will benefit your sense of wellness as opposed to just allowing your brain to focus on something that you're, you know, in the back of your mind, your brain thinks is important. Like, you know, how hard can I work? Or can I. Do people appreciate what I'm doing? Or did I perform well at this task? Or do people like me and all of these types of things. I totally agree with you. Creating a sort of intentional focus, month on month or whatever it might be, without having to be so rigid that, you know, it starts to create restrictions in your life. I think that's maybe, I don't know about you, I think that's where some people try to resist creating a focus because they go, oh, I'm being too rigid. Or if I put structure in my calendar, then, you know, it's a bit too rigid. And so. But I agree with intentional focus. Do you, do you schedule gratitude? So for me, I do sort of a kind of a meditation and gratitude exercise every day about 2 o'. Clock. Because I know for me in a workday, the sort of tension or frustration or stress or whatever can build up during the day. And by about 2 o' clock might be the time when you start to feel a little bit wound up. And I then just want to be able to kind of disconnect from everything and release all these things that aren't actually that important and find a way to be grateful. I know you talked about you don't need to do gratitude every day, but do you do schedule gratitude or do you just sort of when you have a moment of, a bit of a dip that you go, actually, I need to be working on gratitude. How do you sort of guess, map or planet into your life?

Right. I think two o' clock is a brilliant time. I have to use that because you're right, that is, that is the time of day when you're like, okay, there's been a lot going on. I could see how that could be a really good practice.

When I used to work in an office, the alternative to that was at 3 o' clock, I just ate some cake. That was the alternative. Just get a sugar rush. Just get some cake. And now it's a bit more, a bit healthier, a bit more intentional. But anyway, sorry, yes, go on.

No, no, mine would have been ice cream? Yeah, no. Years ago. I would definitely use ice cream as a tool, a self soothing tool. So I totally feel you on that. But I don't actually. I guess I intentionally every day it's part of my day. But I do. You said do you use it as a dip? I do do use it as a tool. When I am feeling not my best self. That's my number one go to tool to pivot myself into a more positive mindset is I'll use the gratitude or I'll focus on wins. And you know, I find that I'm extremely tough on myself. And so if I'm being extremely tough on myself, I'll say, okay, well what was a win? You know, what was a win? What are you grateful for? What did you do good today? And that helps me continue to continue to move forward. So I use it more of a tool. Yeah.

Okay. So before we get on to where people can find out a bit more about you and your book as well and be able to, you know, be able to connect with you, I want to ask one more question which was when you kind of started on this particular direction with gratitude and getting business to embrace that type of culture and obviously for you personally to embrace that as part of your life. I always find when people find that thing that lights them up or makes them them that when they first have that kind of moment, they have a picture in their mind of if I pursue this, this is where maybe I'll get to or where I'll end up or what I'll be able to do. We have a picture in our mind. So I guess kind of a two part question I have is firstly, whatever that picture looks like, when you first started to see, oh, this is how gratitude works, this is what I could do to help other people. When you first had that picture, does your life look like that picture today? And the second part is what footsteps you'd like to leave in the sand for other people going forward. So first part is, does the picture look like you thought it would when you first sort of realized and understood the benefits of gratitude?

Wow, I love that question. You know, I always go with like what, what, what exactly came up? What word came up when you were asking me that question? And, and that quite what the word that came to me was contentment and a feeling of peace. Right. And when I started using gratitude when I was doing back in the day when I was doing in person workshops and such, there was a feeling in the room of contentment when people were focused on Gratitude. And I feel that within our company and contentment, connection. And yeah, I don't know that I had this huge picture, but it was more of a feeling. Right. And I see, I feel that and I feel that it's so power. It's the most powerful tool that I have other than breathing. Clearly that is very powerful tool as well. But sometimes I can't even breathe until I focus on gratitude. Right.

Yeah.

The footstep is, I think, and I say this a lot, it's really to start small. Don't you know, each day is a new day. You know, start each day as I'm going to live my best self. What can I do to show up as my best self? And that might change each and every day, but really try to focus on what do you need for yourself today to make you your best self. Right. And that that's going to change day to day and you know, going back to, you know, being too rigid. I think that that's one of the biggest lessons I've learned is to be gentle, gentle with myself and, you know, just begin again each day.

That's lovely, Kerry, for people who want to know more about you and want to embrace gratitude more. So I know you've got your book Gratitude Infusion as well. Where can people find out more about you? Where can people pick up your book as well?

Okay. Yeah, I'm on LinkedIn. I actually do a weekly message that's uplifting or ideas that you can either personally or implement or within your organization. So on LinkedIn, I'm Kerry Weckalow. I'm also on Twitter and Instagram is kerriwekolow. My book is on Amazon both in the States and the uk. You could just search Gratitude Infusion or Culture Infusion for the book. And if you want to learn more about Actualize, we're just@actualizeconsulting.com great.

And so also we will make sure there's the relevant links will go in the Facebook group for the podcast. So please make sure that you are subscribed to that as well so you can get more information with Kerry. Kerry, thank you very much for your time today. A lot of, a lot of positive energy I can absolutely feel from you. And that is without question through days and months and years of continual practice. Maybe some ice cream along the way, but that continuous practice and that is absolutely what's required. But thank you very much for your time today, Kerry.

It was my pleasure. I really enjoyed it.