Impostor Syndrome ft. Helen Hardware | Ep 149 | Self-Belief Chief

People seem to forget if you change today, today will change your life.

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Hello Helen, thank you very much for joining. We were just speaking off air, as we might say, about the current situation and seeing how you are, but how have you managed to deal with, you know, luckily it sounds like everything's been okay with you, but the day to day, how have you been dealing with that?

I think overall I've been really, really lucky that myself and my husband have not been impacted directly. We haven't had illness. But I think there's been challenges in the sense of not being able to see so much of friends and family. But overall, I think we've enjoyed some downtime and not having to do so much rushing around and traveling and just being more present and spending more time out in nature. We've been going out for lots of lovely walks together.

I think being more present is a key thing for lots of people. I do worry this is one of those things where everyone goes, oh yeah, I've changed. Like I've seen the light now and I, I recognize that all the way I should be. And all the full. And then month or two after it's all ended and was back to normal, people might revert back to type. But as you said, things like that, like being present is something that I think I struggle with a lot of the time, I think. Again, another thing we were talking about off camera was you're mentioning your sort of ambitious side and you're, you know, always pushing yourself. And I think people such as yourself, myself included, it's hard to be present when you're always looking for, like the next challenge or the next thing to accomplish and you kind of always moving at this. This really fast pace. So I can. It's definitely something I've tried to learn. It's something I definitely would like to. To hold on to as well. For people who might not be familiar with you, Helen, we'd love to know a bit more about your journey, your backstory and what's got you to this point where you've done some pretty incredible things by I think, anybody's standards, but that's even more of a reason to talk to you. I'm interested in how you've perceived all of that, but we'd love to know a bit more about your journey.

Thank you. Yeah, so I suppose I've always been the sort of person that pushed myself and I wore that somewhat as a badge of honour when I was at school. I would always study really, really hard and try and get some of the best results that I could, could end in the class or the year. And then that sort of took me all the way through into my professional life. And I decided when I was at university doing music, well, what was I going to do with a music degree? So I went on to do law afterwards at postgrad. But there's a little voice in the back of my head that said people like me don't become lawyers. And that sort of planted a little seed. And I'll be honest, I had huge anxiety and I ran away from that career because I was really, really worried that actually I wasn't good enough to do it. And then those sort of thoughts have carried on over the years. I went on to have a successful career in the financial services sector and carried on doing numerous further qualifications and trainings and would move jobs every couple of years and move up the ladder. But that little voice was always there behind me. And in the end it even resulted in me doing Ironman triathlons because I was constantly trying to prove to that I was good enough. And I remember when I first started doing more extreme sports I remember my mum turning around and saying, that's not for people like you and me. That's for really fit people. And I remember thinking at the time, well, I'm gonna prove you wrong. I'm. You know, I can be a fit person and I can go and do that. And that sort of. That push has always been with me, and it served me really, really well until three years ago. And three years ago, I got promoted. I got a job that I'd always wanted, and I thought that was it. You know, I'd kind of. I'd made it. I'd been working towards that role for a number of years. And I panicked. I had this absolute crippling fear. And it was actually very similar to my experience when I was a solicitor. I suddenly just didn't feel good enough. I was comparing myself to my peers and thinking I'd never be as good as they were. I was petrified about being seen in the office. You know, what if somebody asked me a question that I couldn't answer? I wasn't sleeping. I wasn't taking care of myself. And the anxiety, I didn't realize it was anxiety at the time, but I can look back now and see that that's what it was. And ultimately, it just led me to burning out. I got up one day and I was so exhausted. It was like I'd never been to bed in my life. Then that gradually got worse and worse, and I realized that every step that I was taking, I felt like I'd run a marathon. And yet I was doing less and less exercise. But everything hurt and I ached, and I just felt absolutely dreadful. I couldn't think clearly. So all those fears around not being good enough at work all became tenfold because I couldn't focus. I couldn't remember things. People would say they'd sent me a document and I couldn't remember ever receiving it. But the reality was that I pushed my mind and my body to absolute limits, and I burnt out. I got diagnosed with fibromyalgia. I believe that I had adrenal fatigue, which isn't something that mainstream Western medicine recognizes. But having pushed my body physically through Ironman training and all the other things that I'd done, I literally broke. But in some ways, it was a blessing because it really brought me back down to. To learning to be instead of do. So you mentioned earlier about that constant need to do more and to push, and I didn't know how to be. I think I was almost afraid of sitting still and doing nothing. I try and Meditate. But the idea of it was petrifying because I didn't know what I'd find and maybe I would find that I didn't like myself when I did that, whereas burning out forced me to. I was doing yoga teach training at the time and it was a spiritual journey through the burnout as well as doing the teacher training. And I started to realize who I was and what I wanted and what my idea of success was and that that wasn't in the corporate world.

I recognized so much of what you just said. I always say energy is the oxygen to confidence. It sort of is that kind of chicken and egg situation where it starts off with, well, maybe the, you know, the underlying causes of feeling not feeling good enough. Then the energy drains. And when the energy drains, you then got less resilience to back yourself up. To be able to be your own biggest fan, to be your biggest resource. You always have to be your own biggest fan. Because otherwise if we're reliant on what everyone else's perceptions are of ourselves, then that's why people feel up and down a lot of the time, because that's where their self esteem comes from. Then of course it's, it's anxious when you feel like you can't control something. We can't control what people think of you as such can have an influence, but you can't control it. So I understood a lot of what you just said. I think unfortunately, when, when, and I'm sure it's the case for most people, especially people I work with, when you're moving ahead such a pace and you get little hints along the way that something's not quite lined up or quite working sufficiently or quite right, but you sort of move on and you keep going with it. And sometimes when we don't pick up those clues, life kind of just decides for you. It says, well, you've not, you've not kind of picked up the clues. We're now going to make you change. And that's a lot more uncomfortable than us making that sort of decision. But of course, what's great about the story you just told is not everyone from that story finds an empowering meaning from it. A lot of people go, well, why is this happening to me? Why am I now at a bit of sort of wit's end? Why have I now hit that threshold? Why am I now struggling? And like you said, I think it's a real skill and it's always to be commended. Without that sounding patronizing, hopefully, but I've been through exactly the same thing where you kind of get to that point where you find empowering meaning a reason why it's happening and who says that's the reason why it's happening, but you just come to that conclusion yourself and then it empowers you again and it drives you forward. So I'd love to know from that, because a lot of what you said is basically the crux of this podcast. Crux. My whole business really is that questioning of what, you know, do we feel good enough? So I'd love to know. Really, for you, unquestionably, it's a never ending thing as it is for everyone, because it's, you know, our brain's designed to help us survive, not make us happy. So it looks for what's wrong, it looks for the problems, looks for us to find ways to improve. So I'd love to know the things that you feel have helped you improve and something that's a consistent thing that you'll go to that whenever there is that little bit of doubt, which we all experience. For the people listening who experience it, what have been the best things for you that helped to find that sensation of feeling good enough? Even when we slow things down, even when we're still.

So I think, just going back to the point you made earlier about those little sort of signs along the way, I actually got told in a meditation that I was enough. That was the freakiest thing that ever happened to me. And I opened my eyes in that meditation and sort of looked around the room and I was in the house on my own and thought, what was that? That was weird. And I just dismissed it. And then it kept happening in different ways. I kept getting this message and I still didn't listen to it. So when I went through the burnout, I recognized that what I'd been putting myself through, physically and mentally, was trying to prove who I was was a result of that feeling of not being enough. So I had to sort of start, sit down with a blank piece of paper and say, okay, the universe has told me that I'm enough. How do I get myself to believe it? And I still didn't know. And then one day I came across a lady called Marisa Pierre on YouTube.

She's fantastic.

Yeah, she is. And Marissa's theory is that the core self limiting belief in life is that feeling of not being enough. And. And it was like somebody had just switched on a light bulb. I'd got this message of being enough, being critical to survival, but had no idea where to go. And suddenly it felt like, oh, there's a solution to this. So I started to put up notes around the house. Marissa says, put it on your mirror. Well, my husband would have been too happy if I'd done that. I wrote post it notes all over the house. Goodness knows what my cleaner thought when I had them in the bathroom. But literally everywhere. And still struggled this concept, but knew it was something that I needed to do. And I realized that Marissa was doing training on rapid transformational therapy. So I went and had a session, first of all, and found it was extremely powerful. My session was actually, I didn't. I was too afraid to do it on Feeling good Enough. I went and had a session on sugar addiction.

Okay. Yeah.

But it was such a transformational experience. Yeah, I need to do this. And I was still debating about signing up for the training, and I woke up the next day with the word, you are enough, just going over and over and over. And that was the moment that went, okay, I've got to do this. So I signed up and I trained with Marissa to become a rapid transformational therapist. And through that journey, did a number of different tools and techniques on myself that we taught in the course and still worked with other rapid transformational therapists as well to change my own mindset. And that is ultimately how I got to the point of knowing that I was enough. It was chipping away at it for quite a long time. There was a lot of layers there. And once I really got to the root cause of it and I was able to say, oh, okay, these are the experiences that I've had throughout my life that have caused me to feel that I'm not enough. And that's where that belief has come from. And then I was able to reprogram my mind. I can't say that it was an overnight transformation. I've had overnight transformations with other things with rapid transformational therapy. When I was doing the training, I had a session on the fatigue that I was still experiencing from fibromyalgia. And literally in a heartbeat, I found the root cause of the fatigue, which was that the fatigue was trying to benefit me by stopping me from doing too much. But the bit I didn't know consciously was it was a fear of letting certain people down. And once I knew that, the fatigue just went so chipped away at the belief of not being good enough. Until I got to the point where I absolutely knew at my core. And I can still remember the moment that I woke up one day and I just knew it was deeply ingrained inside of me. And it was almost change at a cellular level. So that's been the biggest thing that's helped me know that I am enough. And there's still times when I do journaling exercises. But I think it's becoming aware of whenever those beliefs pop up, noticing those thoughts and going, oh, okay, that's interesting. And then you can either do something about it or, or you can let it restrict you. So going back to what you said before about people that get stuck in, well, victim mode really, where we get stuck in that cycle of, well, this has happened to me and it's a problem instead of recognizing it's happening for me and I'm going to do something about it. So it's just about becoming self aware using all sorts of mindset tools such as journaling and affirmations. But I think really the benefit of journaling and affirmations is that really only comes into the fore if you get.

To the unconscious beliefs sitting underneath it for people listening. So I totally agree on that. I think Marisa Pierce fantastic. And there's lots of things that I've picked up from her that I've used with the people I work with which get great, great results, but just really good ways to help people find those unconscious beliefs that you referred to. I don't know if you haven't gone through some of those exercises. Myself, I found it so strange that things can be so trivial. There's just such a trivial moment. So I will share one of mine. Before I did the exercise, I sort of assumed it's probably to do with this. It's probably to do with this. So just for people listening, basically one of the many exercises that Marisa Peer will do is a sort of hypnotherapy exercise where you get into a sort of subconscious state and where you're sort of being walked through very various steps. And as you go through those steps, it comes to a point where it says, what's the. You know, what are the. What's the thought or first time that you're questioning whether you're good enough. And it's very funny. And it's a great exercise because it's not intrusive, it's not being interrogated. She allows you to sort of navigate and find that for yourself and just see what comes to mind. You're not trying to think of something when you're in that state. You just. It comes to you. So what a mind was. I remembered. All of a sudden this picture came back into my head. I wouldn't have thought about it. For many, many years of. Whenever I was told off as a child, you'd get sent to the bottom of the stairs. That's what. That's what was done in our house. It's like, go to the bottom of stairs. You're going to stay there for a while until you know what you've done. And I remember being really naughty a lot at the time. And they would say, have you learned your lesson? And I would come up with, like, a really, like, sarcastic remark. They're like, right, cool. You're gonna stay there for a little more bit longer. And then I'd be there for forever. I remembered one time we had our kind of extended family round, and I'd done something at the table and been sent to the bottom of the stairs. And I got sent there. And I could remember hearing everyone else laughing and enjoying themselves. And when I did this exercise, what came to my mind was, oh, people have a better time when I'm not there. And that I was thinking, and it was a real kind of like, oh, because you never consciously think of that. You never even knew you'd made that decision. A lot of people might then question is that you sort of go, is that really it? But the point in the exercise is that's what comes to your mind. So there must be some truth there. I found that so strange. But actually, I realized that was sort of. For me, it's another element of. At the core of that, therefore, not feeling good enough, that other people can enjoy themselves more when I'm not there and then work from that. It's funny because when I do that sort of thing with other people, with my clients, it's. People worry that it's. That the thing will be some thing that they'd. Some big intrusive thing that they'd never thought of. And it's gonna, you know, oh, my God, open a can of worms. And for a lot of people I work with, at least, it turns out to be something really simple, something really trivial. And sometimes they are bigger moments. And obviously, you know, being younger, I've had obviously significantly worse moments in my lifetime than that. And yet that's the thing that came to me, that's at some point, made a decision around that time. So I agree with everything you said about Marissa Peer. And so when we talk about imposter syndrome, and it's great to know obviously, the source of it. And you've mentioned about things like journaling as well and various other exercises, if you journaling being one of them, what are the other things? People could be doing daily. Of course, I totally agree with you. Finding the source of the situation is important because otherwise you feel better for a while. But then every few months, every six months, every year, you hit another dip and you go, okay, well, I've done all these daily things, and, oh, now there's another dip. You keep having those dips unless you deal with the source fit. Having said that, though, I think a lot of people listening would love to have some ideas of what can I. What can I do each day, especially when I've got more time to think and everything during this pandemic, aside from journaling, what are some of the other things that you might suggest to people that would be useful?

So I get my clients to write a list of all their achievements and everything from learning to walk your first swimming certificate, learning to write your own name, tie your shoelaces, all of those are achievements. And when you write down a very, very long list of your timeline of all the things that you've done. So it's not just about academic qualifications, which is quite often what happens if you're. You ask people to write down a list of their achievements, they'll write down their school grades. And it's so much more than that. So if we can recognize all the things that we've achieved and how far we've come, I then get them to look back at that list. But two reasons. One, you can use that list to say, hey, actually, I've come so much further than I think I have, and look back at that list whenever you're having a wobble and just remind yourself how far you have come. And the other thing that I use the list for is to say, okay, looking back at those situations, when have you felt like an imposter before and how did you get past it? What tools and techniques or skills that you might not have even been aware that's what they were. But what did you apply in order to get past it? And also recognizing that you did get past it and that you got to the other side. So imposter syndrome comes around in a bit of a loop or a cycle. And there's certain stages that we go through, and it's usually when we're starting something new, Although it can be a pervasive thing as well. I think it sort of flares up in little cycles. So getting them to recognize those two elements of, yes, I felt like that before, and I've got past it and be able to feel that. That sense. I also get them to anchor the feelings of Having got past it and feeling good again, and then bring those into this present moment so that they can recognize that there are good feelings and that they can tap into whenever they need it. And helping them tap into a time when they felt confident and anchoring that as well and bringing that into the present moment.

I think both of those are really, really fantastic. The first thing, in terms of the list of achievements, the more pride and gratitude we can find in the smaller things, then obviously the impact of the bigger things is exceeding so much bigger. I totally agree with school grades. What are the people's just significant. They get to a list of five and they go, oh, well, that's what I've ever really done. And there's a really interesting study done a while back which measured the emotional impact of a yes and a no. What it found was that for every no we say to ourselves or someone else says to us, we have to say yes 17 times to balance out the emotional impact of the no. And that no is the same as are we good enough? Maybe I'm not good enough. And so how many times a day do we have to kind of say yes? And so having a list of achievements is kind of a way to have an accumulation of yeses. Yeses that you say to yourself or yeses that other people have said to you. I think it's really important to I create what's, I call it a positive tower, because for me, in my mind or anyone else's mind, you have a negative tower and a positive tower. The negative tower builds up automatically. You know, you can't find your car keys in the morning, someone cancels a meeting, someone is late for lunch. Partner doesn't put the toilet seat down. Something else, something else, something else. Then one more thing happens and it doesn't require any effort to do that, but to build a positive tower in the way that you just said, that list of achievements is something you have to be very, very conscious about. But if you get to the point where you turn into a habit, we don't have to think about it. It's fantastic. And whatever you focus on, you tend to feel, don't you? The other thing you said I really liked because it, it's very much what I believe as well. When I work with people in different areas and whether it's athlete or a business owner or someone else, I think a lot of people want to sort of pose this as a question to you. A lot of people think that you're going to provide them with loads of answers and loads of New things. And the reality is that rather than say, right, this is where we're going to find this new confidence is to do exactly what you said, which is when we've been our most confident, or as you sort of said, when we've had imposter syndrome. How do we get over it? It's finding out what actually already works for people because people get behind that more often. I compare it to. I don't know if you do crosswords. I don't. But I can imagine if you have a crossword and you've got one word left and you're like really struggling with it, and then someone else tells you what it is, you're happy for five seconds, and then you pissed off that someone else has done it for you. And so amongst all of that is people want to be find the answers for themselves. They want to see what already works for them. So I don't know about you, whether the people you work with, is that something you're very conscious of in terms of, I want to find what already works for that person, or is there more often for you, something where we go, we need to provide something new. We need to add something different to what they're doing. How do you see that?

I think it depends on the client and where they are, and it goes back to how coachable somebody is as well. And I try and only work with people who are ready to go through that transformation process because I make it clear I don't change them. They do the change work. I just help them with some tools along the way. So it's about being able to recognize that you're empowered to do that yourself, I think, really. So depending on the client, I do. So I work with clients in a program. So I combine rapid transformational therapy in one session in a program of coaching. And it is much more powerful to coach somebody to reach their own realizations. It's so much more powerful. Sometimes it's difficult because as an outsider, you can immediately see something that's going to benefit them. But they've got to get there on their own journey to really understand that and to get the benefit. I know when I was going through my burnout, I spoke to a nutritionist who had been through a burnout. She was a former Ironman triathlete herself. And I remember her saying to me, you've got to stop training. And I came away from that call going, well, I'm not going to do that. It's critical to who I am. It's part of my being. I'm not going to stop training. But it got to the point where I realized for myself that continuing to train several hours a week on top of a full time job and a two hour commute each way wasn't doing my body any good and I wasn't going to heal. So sometimes it's far more powerful to let clients get there to themselves. That said, I do think that by often sometimes people do need some new tools, maybe they've tried a few things. So what I think is the joy of what I do is quite often people have done mindset work already. Don't get me wrong, I am a massive fan of mindset work and I've been doing it for several years now. But I also recognize that I spent many years of just doing mindset work from the conscious mindset over and over and over and couldn't get past my fears, couldn't get past that block. It felt like I was pushing up against an invisible wall. But by bringing in new tools, which in my case was rapid transformational therapy, that's how I got past it. So it just depends on the client and where they are on their journey and what tools and resources they need. And sometimes you have to try a few different things before you find exactly what works for that person.

Yeah, I think all of that is very, very much true. So what I'm you mentioned a few times about doing an ironman now. I don't know if I'm ever going to be brave enough to do something like that, aside from the catalogue of injuries I've had over my life through various sports. So I really want to know what it takes to do that. And also not just from a. Sorry, from both a physical standpoint because I love my fitness, I think exercise energy is incredibly important, but just from a mindset point of view as well. What you've got to have in terms of resilience and desire to be able to do something like that. Because I think for a lot of people that just doesn't compute with them. As much sport and challenges I've done in my lifetime, it's just one of those things that I sort of go, I'm really not sure about that. So I'd love to know more about what those experiences have been like for you.

It was absolutely one of the most transformational experiences I've ever been through in some ways. Yet the biggest realization of it was it didn't change who I was. So I never considered myself sporty. My mum was a swimming teacher when I was a kid, so I used to swim a lot, and I had a bike. But also, like you, I had numerous injuries. I had some problems with my hips when I was growing up. And then later on, when I started to do a bit of running, a bit of cycling, I got a bit of a knee injury. So I had a few things. But I was single and I was living on my own and I joined a local Wolves women's cycling club. And suddenly I had this huge community of friends and we were all sort of pushing each other to do a bit more and have a go at different things and being supportive of each other. So I went from somebody who had absolutely loathed cycling as a child to somebody that suddenly found that they were riding 50, 60, 70 miles on a Saturday morning for sheer fun. So it kind of started there. And then I mentioned to a friend that was probably my mistake, that I fancied doing a triathlon and she sort of said, yeah, yeah, I fancy doing that as well. So we signed up and did our first little sprint and it was great fun. I'll be honest, I was petrified. It actually took me 40 minutes to get out of the hotel bathroom to go down to the start line. And it was so much fun, I cried all the way around the bike course because suddenly I was a triathlete. So that's kind of how it started. And then the same friend and I decided the following year to do an Olympic distance triathlon. So we spent all summer training for it and had a great time. Became a bit of a girls weekend. Three or four of our friends flew out. We did it in Barcelona because they had closed roads. And we just thought, well, why not? Let's go somewhere that's warm and sunny and that's got clothes roads.

I don't know many people who go, why? Yeah, why not do. Why not do an Olympic size Ironman? Yeah, that doesn't. Again, that's one of those things that I can't. That's not a why not? Thing for me. It's not like a casual thing I'd rock up to. But okay. Anyway, sorry for interrupting, but yeah.

So the year after. Well, while we were training to do the Olympic, my friend went on holiday and read this book which said that anyone can do an Ironman, it's down to time management. And I read the book on pure recommendation and we sort of goaded each other into it and said, yeah, next year gonna do an Ironman. And that was sort of where it started. So it was the dead of winter, beginning of January, and I was training Six days a week. Two of those days were training twice a day. And on my rest day, I use that word loosely, I would do all my food prep for the rest of the week. And I used to go to a yoga class as well, because that was something I needed for my mind and my body and stretch out a bit. And it was intense, I think, you know, you said before about what is it that you've got to have sort of that carries you through and the resilience and the motivation you've got to have a why. And when your why is so important, it outweighs the fear of what you're doing. And for me, the why, as silly as it was, was I wanted the medal and I wanted the T shirt. And they seem like such trivial things, but they were the things that got me out on a Sunday morning after I'd been training, you know, six days already, that was week and five days, and go out and run for two or three hours at a time in snow and rain and all sorts of weather. And the weather we had that year was absolutely atrocious. We didn't have a spring. We went from the dead of winter to being red hot summer. And I was training, I think for the first one, I was training between 9 and 12 hours a week. I started working in London the year before, so I was commuting between an hour and a half and two hours each way and working in London five days a week. So I dashed back home on Friday night to get over to the lake and do a couple of hours swimming open water in the lake before it closed. And it was just crazy when I look back. But you had to be laser focused, you had to really, really want it.

So when it comes to. So you mentioned some of the sort of prep that you have to do and you spoke about the why and you spoke about the need for kind of the medal or the desire to have the medal of the T shirt to say that you've done it. Amongst all of that, you did those things, you'd spoken previously that it had that sort of feeling of. It didn't quite do the job that you necessarily wanted it to do for you. You wanted it to be more so when in that moment, surely there was a. When you finished, when you finished particular Iron Man. There's the excitement and the delight having just done it. I would be really interested to know at what point did it start to how long was it where it started to go, oh, that's not. Doesn't feel like it's quite hit the spot. Was it like an hour after? Was it like two days after? Was it like a month after? Because I recognize that feeling. I just want to know when that kicked in for you.

About 48 hours.

48 hours. Okay.

So I finished the race. The race was Sunday. And I remember running down the finisher chute and I remember them stretching the tape out across the finishing line. And even now, all these years on, I've no memory of actually crossing the finishing line.

Wow, okay.

I remember them taking my ankle tag off because I remember thinking I could bend over to take it off myself and then realizing that actually I probably couldn't. If I bent over I wasn't going to be able to stand up again. And I remember the elation, I remember the thrill of being able to hug myself, family and my partner and it felt amazing. And that was the Sunday, Monday. I was just really kind of exhausted. We actually went on holiday straight afterwards because I couldn't deal with the comedown of that and then go straight back to work. And by the Tuesday morning I was direly dehydrated, laying on the sofa feeling horrendously ill and searching for new racers on my phone and going, oh look, there's a half Iron man in six weeks time. I haven't done a half yet. A friend of mine's doing it. I could go and do that. And there was such an element of it just wasn't enough. And it seemed like no matter what I did, I never ever felt like it was good enough. And also the although I say it's an Ironman, Ironman's actually a brand and it wasn't an Ironman branded race, it was an Iron distance race. It's the same thing. But I felt a fraud saying I'd done an Iron Man. The race I was caught was called the Outlaw. So when people would say, oh, which Ironman have you done? I'd say, oh well, it wasn't quite Iron man, it was Outlaw. But it's the same distance and try and justify it. And that's why I decided to do another one which took me. It took me about a year probably of kind of saying never again to then go, oh yeah, I really, really want to do it. I'm ready to train again. And my second one was actually harder because I knew that I could achieve it and I knew from my perspective I had to do better and I had to try harder. And I actually did the second one in Majorca because again, I wanted somewhere that it was good, good weather. When I did the the one in the uk, I picked it because I thought the weather would be reasonable and not too hot. I'm redheaded and I get burnt easily, so it seemed like an obvious thing to do. But it was the hottest day of the year and it was over 30 degrees. Having put. Having proved I could survive in that weather, I then went abroad to do the next one because I thought, well, why not get a holiday out, the whole thing. And I'm very lucky that my family also agreed to come along and support, and even some friends flew out to support me. So the second time it was about proving to myself that the first one wasn't a fluke. I actually had achieved it. I was really determined this time to remember crossing the finishing line. I actually trained harder. If anything, my training was up to about 18 hours a week again, still with a long commute. And I did all sorts of weird things to get the training in. I remember switching my training round and going out at half past four on a Friday morning before work to do an 18 mile run so that I didn't have to do it on the Sunday when it was my nephew's first birthday and I could go to his birthday party. So you just have to be really, really focused and know that you've got a real reason to want to do it. And when I did it, I loved it. But I think that was the moment when I. When I finished that race. There's still a part of me that thinks, well, what if my first one was 14 hours and two minutes and my second one was 13 hours and two minutes? And there's still a little part of my mind that says, where did I lose those two minutes? Could I beat that?

No, you really.

And yet my original goal was only to finish it in under 16 hours.

Do you think. Well, I was going to say, do you think people can be addicted to exercise? I'm sure that absolutely without question is the case. I want to ask you, how do you. How do you manage the exercise side of things now in terms of you've got that desire, you know, you obviously love exercise and you're interested in the fitness side of things, or I assume you do. And so, yes, you might not have the desire to do an ironman, but what does that routine look like for you? Because that might. Exercise might be, well, part of what creates certainty and structure for you. So what does the exercise something you go, I leave it alone now. I don't really think about it much. Or do you still have ideas of what you like to do each week in terms of a fit to keep yourself fit. You know, you mentioned things like walking stuff, but. Or is it something you kind of go, I've done that, I don't need to think about it anymore.

Kind of somewhere in the middle. So when I went through my burnout, I physically couldn't do anything. And I, that was the hardest part, was I lost my sense of identity. I couldn't call myself a cyclist or a triathlete or a runner anymore. And on a bad day I could get from the bed to the sofa and I might be able to get back to bed or not. It was, you know, it was hit and miss. So I really had to start from scratch, learning to walk to the end of the street again. And then when I could walk to the end of the street and back, it was adding on a little bit further to the shop and back. So it built up slowly. And the first time I went out on my bike after the burnout again, I cried all the way out on that ride because I was on my bike and it was so exciting. These days it's a lot less struggle, it's a lot more moderate. I still like to run two or three times a week. I don't do anywhere near like the distances that I used to. I tick over between 5 and 10k and I mix it up with maybe some speed intervals or some hill reps or a tempo run, depending on the week. I try and get outdoors and walk every day. That was actually one of the things that helped me on my recovery. We're lucky enough to live in a beautiful part of the country surrounded by orchards. And as soon as I was able to get a little bit further beyond the boundaries of the village, I'd go out and do a mile or a two mile walk through the fields, through the orchards, and just connect back into nature. And that was really crucial. So I would walk routes that I'd run for years and yet saw things that I'd never seen when I was running them because I wasn't really paying any attention to what I was doing. And then I, I must admit, I don't ride my bike as often as I would do. I'd like to. And it's on my list of things that I'm going to make more of an effort to do going forwards. I've actually been talking to a friend this morning about meeting up to go out on a bike this weekend. And I do still ride, I do still do stuff, but I do it all these days in moderation, but I do it for the sheer pleasure of doing it. I still absolutely love swimming. Put me in a pool and I'm great. Put me in a lake, I'm even better. There's something very primordial about that. So I think it's just now recognizing that I've nothing to prove anymore and I do it for the sheer love of doing it. But likewise, I found that structure doesn't work. And I've come close to burning out again since because like you say, it is addictive. And I think it's the endorphins that are addictive as opposed to self. And even during lockdown, I started to do daily workouts or 15, 20 minute high intensity workouts five days a week. And I was pushing myself and pushing myself and then I started to feel the burnout creeping up. So I had to pull back and remember that that can lead to a place that I don't want to go back to. And it's just about being kind to myself now and recognizing that I don't have to run. There was a long time where I thought I had to run or I had to ride my bike and I'd get anxious if I didn't because I would be losing my fitness. These days I see it as I get to run. It's actually a privilege that my body enables me to do it.

Yeah, that's really nice. I think framing is really, really important. And I do that with lots of. One of my things has been in the past around frustration. And I used to remember getting really frustrated about really, you know, trivial things. And we all get frustrated at different times, but at certain points that it would start, it would, it would accumulate and that frustration would turn into something sort of. I sort of feel like, I feel a sense of almost out of control in terms of I can't calm myself down with it. And then one day I sort of thought, okay, well, what is frustration? I thought frustration is when something is nearly done. It's that it doesn't require much more to happen for that thing to be done or sorted or finished or complete or whatever. And, and that sort of clicked in my head that it means that you're in a sort of in a privileged position where, you know, depends what it is. But something's almost complete. And yes, you have an expectation that it should be able to be done quicker or faster or easier or whatever, but you're at, you're that, that place people. It's hard to be frustrated when you're kind of, you're not on the road to something or you're not trying to get to somewhere or you're not trying to do something. And so, and rather than setting a kind of a. Treating everything as a high expectation so we get more frustrated. More frustrated would just be that actually within that. It means I'm close. It means that I'm lucky that to be. I'd be somewhere in the vicinity of getting something done. And so, yeah, I think, I think the way you framed that is really, really nice. And what I was curious about, what I like is people who sort of, I guess, walk the walk really. And you've had sort of experiences where it's sort of very honest and open in terms of those, those particular low moments. And so as a result, you know, it's a bit like a bow and arrow. The further you get pulled back, then when you release it, you travel further. And from some of the work that I sort of, as I say, stalking you beforehand, you do some really great things. One of the things you mentioned though, just prior to this was a quiz that you've created to help people understand the kind of mindset blocks and actually be able to work out and have more answers for themselves and understand themselves better. Which I think is incredibly important. Important. So I'd love to know even just my own interest. But I think people listening, especially what that looks like, how it works, what it looks like and what the advantages are.

Yeah. So it aims for people to know what their biggest visibility block is. Because I specialize in helping women with their confidence to be visible in their business because that really held me back. But it applies to any mindset block really. I think there's this four sort of core things. That's the fear of failure, it's perfectionism, it's imposter syndrome, and comparing ourselves to others. So the quiz is very short, but it's to help you understand which is your predominant block right now. Because even if we're experiencing all four, that's a lot to try and take on and fix in one go, actually. We need to break things down into manageable components. So the quiz just helps you understand what the principal mindset block is first of all. And then it's got three easy but powerful tools that you can use to help to get past that block.

Okay. So yeah, human beings are terrible at trying to do four or five things at the same time. I think that's often why most people get stuck is even when it's they're very well intentioned, that they're trying to get on as much information as possible. Or trying to do as many things as possible to learn and understand. It's actually the sort of over accumulation of information from different sources that say different things that in a sense is a roadblock to someone actually taking a step or taking action. And I always believe that when I work with people, there's always two steps. There's, you have to change the filter which they see the world, okay? So whether they're going through a particular phase of their life or whatever, that filter that makes things feel dull or gray or that makes them ask terrible questions like why am I not good enough? Or you know, why do I get rejected all the time? Then we just get rubbish answers and it just feeds that cycle. But changing that filter doesn't always really change people's lives. The bit that changes people's lives is taking action. And one of the, that roadblock to actually taking action. And like, exactly like you said, it's always, it's always, you know, you probably get the same. If anyone ever thanks you for your help or support, I always say that it, like you said, it's very much them. But I don't even feel it's nice to be validated. But at the same time I don't. That's not the predominant thing. I feel, I feel very proud of them and I feel very. It's amazing to watch people such as yourself as well with the achievements that you've had. When you watch someone else do great things, that's just great in itself and whatever over too much credit you might get at certain points, you're right, it's very much the individual. But what stops people from taking action is just having too many things. So I think that's in fact what your quiz is doing is breaking that down. So it's like one thing at a time is incredible. I can't stress that enough. That's incredibly important because that's just the pure sensation of ticking things off, you know, with just one thing at a time so that you feel like you're building momentum. And I think people with momentum developing their entire life, they just don't recognize it. They just, we see all the problems and see all the things. So that with that quiz you meant sort of a women business and that sort of visibility. So you mentioned that's been a struggle for you. And obviously I'm not in a position to talk about that. So for people who are listening who probably have sort of really aligns with them and they recognize that what was maybe a situation where you recognized that it was an issue Or a problem that something that actually, yeah, this is something that, you know, here's the experience that I've had, maybe a particular experience. And therefore the reason that kick started me into going, this is my niche. This is a thing that I can help people with.

Yeah. So when I went through my burnout and I realized that I'd always wanted a business and it was time to do something different with my life. And having just done yoga teacher training and the yoga had been critical for my recovery from burnout, I wanted to teach yoga online to burnt out athletes. And looking around my friendship groups, knowing a lot of women triathletes, a number of which were burnt out, thought, yeah, there's definitely something in there. So I signed up for a marketing course, for a yoga marketing course specifically, and started taking a bit of action. And I loved playing around in Canva and making stuff. I even did a few little short videos.

Oh, Canva is so addictive.

If you're any remotely creative. And I love building slide in Canva. But when it came to actually making an offer to my clients and putting myself out there and saying, this is what I want to do, I was petrified. I built a Facebook group which literally went to over 18 people overnight. And that wasn't friends, that was just putting something in some women's triathlete groups. So there was obviously a lot of people really needing it, but I couldn't do it. There was something holding me back. And I sat there thinking, I'm a qualified solicitor. I've had all this success in my career. You know, I'm an iron man. Why on earth can't I put myself out there and say, I want to teach yoga. Other people do it, why can't I? And yet I just kept petting up against that wall. And I worked with a brilliant coach and we spent six months doing mindset work. And I still couldn't get past that fear. I knew that I needed to have a business that was part of my purpose, was to help other people get past that block. I didn't know how to get past it. So when I started my rapid transformational therapy business business, I initially just set up a Facebook page and kind of got things out there. And the same feelings hit. That same fear was like, whoa, what am I doing? And again, it was an invisible wall and I just couldn't get past it. I couldn't say to people, hey, I am a rapid transformational therapist. I'm good at this and this is what I'm doing now. And you look around you think, why can't I do it? There's all these other people doing it and making it successful. Why can't I? So I realized that I had a self limiting belief around that. There was a number of beliefs there. When I started to chip away at them. There was a belief that success was not available to me. There was a belief that if I failed, other people were going to judge me. There was a belief that I wasn't good enough and there was a whole raft of the things and it wasn't safe to be visible in a business. That was another thing that related back to being bullied as a child at school. I'd had a jewelry business as a teenager and taking them to school, craft fairs and being bullied because I was making money at school. And there was all sorts of money blocks there as well about having a business and, you know, rather than a salary and things. So I recognized all of those things and basically just had rapid transformational therapy, went through a number of layers and took them away one at a time and realized that I had to push myself to step out my comfort zone. So I think there's a fine balance between taking a big leap into something that is petrifying versus just stepping that little bit outside of your comfort zone and just chipping away at it. So a lot of the times with my clients, they'll come and say, right, I want to feel confident. Okay, that's great. But confidence isn't the goal. What's your goal goal? And when you understand what your goal is, then we'll get you the confidence to achieve that goal. Confidence is just a symptom, but it's actually not the key thing that we should be working towards. Because like you say, you've got to take action to actually change your life. Just by feeling confident isn't going to change your life. You've got to do something with it.

Yeah, I think that's such an incredibly important point to make because of all the different programs that are on confidence. Reason why I create different programs is because if I just created a program on confidence, confidence, it's all people, people looking at it, going to go. The confidence to do what? And that in itself is exactly your point, which is, well, is it confidence in my relationships, is it in my career? Because confidence in all those different areas have different languages. You know, that the kind of the principles or whatever might be the same, but in terms of the understanding the language, it's completely different. So I totally agree. But you know, getting confident, being confident isn't as you said, a compelling enough goal for someone to actually take the necessary steps. But if there's a result they want, which is actually, I do want to meet the right partner. Actually, you know what, I do want that promotion. Actually, you know what I do want to be able to speak in front of a thousand people or whatever. That's a compelling goal. And then, as you said, you can work backwards from that. So I couldn't agree more on that particular point. And for you? Well, I'd be quite interested to know. I know what it looks like at my end. So for you, when you sort of pose that question back to them, we're saying, well, okay, but the confidence to do what? Or, you know, what's the goal for you? What are the most common goals that people, if you try and think of what's the most. What area of life do they most commonly, or the reason why they want confidence, what's quite top? What's. What's high up on the list?

For people, I think probably because of my niche, it's about they want to build a business or they want to grow their business to the next level. And quite often people will have an existing successful business offline. Maybe they've been a PT in a gym or they've been teaching yoga in a studio, but they want to take it to that next level of moving it online instead of racing around to lots of different classes, take it online, get a bigger reach, work globally. And that's the fear that when it's putting yourself out visibly online, is very, very different to putting up some flyers locally to say what it is that you want to do. And quite often my clients are people who have got an idea for a business but are just too afraid to even get it off the ground. So they need that initial support. So my coaching, although it is predominantly mindset coaching, we actually also end up bringing in business coaching as well. So it's holding them to account and getting them to take little achievable actions each week. And that might be posting on social media consistently. So start off by, look, let's post three times a week rather than feeling you've got to do it every day, what are you going to post three times a week? We look at different tools and strategies to do that as well as that mindset to do it. Because even if they've got the confidence, sometimes you can sit there and go, I don't know what to post. So we chip away at that visibility. So it's not about getting them straight out there doing Facebook lives. One of my clients last week, I think she said she spoke to a group of four and a half thousand people. Now that's brilliant. That's where a lot of people want to get to and that was where she was on her journey. But often people aren't starting there. So it's just about getting them to start putting their face on their social media posts, use photos, use selfies, that's one layer. We chip away at that. Then maybe it's do a pre recorded video and then when they're comfortable doing that, we'll try doing live video. So it's all about looking at what it is they actually want to get to with their business and then we look at those steps of how they're going to be able to do that. So visibility yet is the goal, but actually it's not really the goal, it's what do you want to be doing with your business? Do you want to be reaching maybe 2,000 people each month or whatever else it is?

I think whenever I work with people in a business context but in all contexts you. I think one of the common things I will get from people is I can just think of one recently where they work with someone and they kind of get told something along the lines of to do 50% more than what they were already doing. And the problem with that, what I said to them was that kind of violates your own threshold of belief that you could do 50% more. Maybe at some point you can do you, but even if you can right now, maybe you don't quite believe that yet. So let's not violate that threshold. So like you said, so to use one of the examples that you used for someone posting every day, that's just not in there. They're not anywhere in the vicinity of being able to do that yet. Whether they don't have the time to do it, whether they don't have the confidence to do it, whatever it might be. So it's just a non starter and as you said it's maybe it's breaking that down to it is three times a week or whatever it might be, but I think that's true in lots of different areas is finding yourself making at least a little bit momentum. I think people so obsessed with the amount of growth or progress they make when actually all human beings I think really need is the consistent sensation of growth, not actually that they make as much growth at once, that actually if every day they feel like they are making a little bit of progress, that's really what people are looking for. And that's when people use that really boring cliche of it's the journey, not the destination. And whilst I do find that boring, there is some element of truth in that. And so when you go. I had someone recently, they were talking about retirement, and they said, today they want to retire, but they worry when they retire they'll feel really lonely. As it was very simple where we just said, okay, well, we don't have to retire tomorrow. So give me one word to Describe retiring in three months. Oh, way too soon. Okay, six months. Anxious. Okay, 12 months. Good. 18 months old. Too long. Okay, 12 months. And so we start then creating a plan around 12 months. And he's got a smile on his face, all of us. And I said, why are you smiling? It's like, because you haven't retired this second. That's what you want to do. So why have you got a smile on your face? Because I now know the progress and direction I'm going in in the right amount of time, which doesn't compromise what I think I'm capable of. Of right now. And that's. That's sort of the point. So I like that you've said that. I can. I can definitely agree with that.

One of my old coaches used to say 2% every day.

Yeah, that's. That's good. Yeah, exactly, exactly. And it very, very quickly adds up. And. But also doing that creates permanent progress. A lot of people, what they want. Something I always say to them, you've told me what you want. In fact, firstly, they tell me what they don't want. So then I ask them what they do want. They tell me what they do want. And I say, okay, now that we know what you do want, the thing is that you really want is you want it to be permanent. And the fact is, if you try and do so much so quickly, maybe you found this with your. With your. With your Ironman with training for those. I know people who want to train for a marathon who make that mistake of their plan. Says they're supposed to run one mile on day one, and they get three quarters away through the mile and they go, oh, this is so easy. I'm gonna run four. And then when they're supposed to run another mile in two days time, they're like, oh, I can't. I'm exhausted. Can't do it. And it's because people, it's having that patience as well. But that 2%, if you just do that 2%, you're working and turning it into a habit that you can make sure, you can continue it for the next however many years, not just so you can do something really well for a very short space of time and then give a up on it. And I think when people do give up on things, it is because they've tried to do too much too quickly. I think it's not. There's many reasons, but I think that's usually a very common reason that people don't quite recognize. Speaking of things that take time, I've written a book previously. I know what that looks like and I know what it's like to be a part of that. And I know that you've been part of a book which I'd love to hear a bit more about. Now I know how, I know how nice it is and compelling to write chapters or to put things into books. And the idea is really nice. But I also know the flip side of it is you do drafts and this bit isn't good enough. But you get criticized and you've got to do it again. And people say xyz and then you can sort of breathe a sigh of relief once it's done. So I'd love to know a bit more about the what you've, the book that you've got coming out soon and the contribution you've made to that. What was the reason that you decided to be a part of that and also what's the book about?

So the book is Spirit Success Stories for the Soul and it's 13 women. And it's our journey through finding our spirituality and bringing it into our life and actually into our business. Because spirituality in business is not really something that's commonly talked about or thought about. And we were all part of a mastermind together earlier in the year and we created some great friendships and some great bonds. And I just, I looked around the group and thought we were all bringing spirituality into our day to day life in such different ways. But it's a linchpin of all of our businesses. And wouldn't it be great to inspire other women or even men to bring a spiritual aspect into their business and to know that actually the woo woo isn't a no no in business. So that was where the original idea came from. And it just so happened that I met a publisher who was very, very interested in that. So there was 13 of us around the world who collaborated together to all write our own stories, all about how we've gone through dark times, how we found ourselves, how we found our spirituality, and how that has shaped the life and the business that we've created and how that is integral as to who we are and how we work.

And so who are the other people involved in the book and what, what their. What are their stories? What are, what's their. You know, what are the differences and the unique elements between each of you? Because I'm sure all of you bring your own things to the table. You've got a common thing theme there. But what are the different kind of backgrounds and stories?

So we're all rapid transformational therapists and we've all trained with Marisa Peer. So Marissa's actually been very kind to write a forward to the book for us. It's really exciting. But we all come from very different backgrounds. So we've got an engineer, we've got a gp, we've got a HR director, and all sorts of different cultures and backgrounds. We've got women in America, women in Australia, there's somebody in New Zealand, there's some in Europe, and a couple of us in the UK and the Channel Islands. And our stories are all very unique. And the element of spirituality varies drastically because spirituality means something different to every one of us. And one of our writers is a practicing Muslim. Some are Christian, some are not religious, but spiritual. So it's very, very eclectic. And we've all been down different paths. But the common theme that came out, and this was never a deliberate element of the book at all until we all got our first drafts together and compared them. But all of our stories talked about overcoming some kind of big adversity and finding yourself and finding your spirituality from that.

What do you think is. About a decade ago, I was asked after a talk I did if I was a spiritual person. I remember pausing for probably what was way too long, because I didn't. I'd never really thought about it previously. And it was one of those things where I said. I said to the person, can I come back to you on that one? And I realized that it's probably one of those things a bit like when someone says, when you're in love, you know, you're in. You know, you know that you're in love sort of thing, if you're a spiritual person. People know if they're a spiritual person because they've felt that feeling, they've experienced it. It was a while until I started to feel and become more of a spiritual person and recognize the benefits of it. If there is one, you might disagree with this. Why do you think there are. It's not. It's not a block that prevents people from becoming a more spiritual person 1. Because everyone can choose what works and then what doesn't. But sometimes there's a. Either, I don't know from my experience either bit of stigma or there's just a, you know, actually is it. I just want to be on the ground doing the work. I don't want to, you know, be working at a spiritual level. I firstly to really say, do you think there are people or there is sort of spirituality is something that not everyone quite understands and if so, why do you think that might be so?

I definitely think spirituality is something that not everybody understands because it is so unique. If you ask somebody what the color blue is, can you describe it?

Yeah, sure.

Not really. And spirituality is something very different and it is very personal and very deep within. So I think that's probably one reason why people can't feel it. I think it is something that we all have the opportunity to feel. But going back to one of the points we made very early on in our conversation today, the more that you're constantly pushing forwards and not taking time to go within. Because to my mind, spirituality is not about connecting to something external, it's about connecting to something inside of you. And for me, that inside of me is connected to something greater than me. But it first and foremost, foremost it's about being within me. So I think it's important to be able to pause on the treadmill that is life and be willing to go inside and reflect. It's interesting how a lot of our writers in the book come from very scientific backgrounds. We've got a science teacher, we've got an engineer, we've got a doctor, all occupations and I was going to say cultures to some extent that are very, very factual, scientific based. And we live in a society that separates psychology and science from spirituality. But I think there is a growth of bringing those two things together with the work that we're seeing with people like Joe Dispenza and Brian Guy's name escaped me. Now I'll come back to that one. I want to say Brian Lipton, but I'm not entirely sure that's absolutely right. But we're starting to see a shift in there being more sort of science and spirituality starting to come together and be emerged Now.

I've probably seen signs of that. So maybe I can believe that that started to be the case. And it would be great if there is because I think there's sort of lines that get drawn that I don't say divide people, but people therefore miss opportunities to try and explore new things. When we do draw those sorts of lines or when society sort of draws those lines for us, I guess. Final thing I want to ask you before I want, before we talk about where people can find out more about you and some of the things in terms of the quiz in the book and where people can get in contact with you, question I like to ask lots of people, which is when you started this particular journey that you're on now, the direction that you're going in, and with, especially with the rapid transformational therapy, you'll have had a picture and an idea of what you wanted that to become, what you wanted to do with that. I like to ask people, when you get you're at this particular point, does the picture look like you thought it was going to look? And then secondly, you know, there's that balance between not always having to have high expectations or to put too much pressure on ourselves. But of course you still have things that you'll want to do going forward. So just those two questions. Does the picture look like you thought it would look like at this point? And secondly, what is it that, what footprints would you like to leave in the sand for people going forward?

So I was looking at my vision board the other day and thinking actually how much of it I've achieved. And does it look like that? No, not exactly, but it feels like the way I imagined it was nice. And I think that's a really important part of making it happen and feeling into that. And things don't always turn out exactly how you think they're going to, but actually they can often turn out better. So it's about letting go of those preconceived ideas. And the bit about footprints on the sand, I think really all I want to leave is an inspiration for others. I realized that what I'm doing is helping other people live a better life. And my real passion and my mission is to help women around the world know that they're enough just as they are. And it's so, so prevalent, especially in women. I know, I know men get this as well, but women really do struggle to feel that they're enough. But if we could create a world where all women knew that they were enough, what an amazing place that would be and what a legacy to create for the future.

Absolutely, Helen. The conversation we've had is right up my ballpark. So I found it very, very interesting indeed. Stuff around imposter syndrome is one of those never ending things that people are always. Even when they found ideas, there are more good ideas to find to continually work on it, improve on it. It's something that we keep working on. I think the insights that you've shared have been really, really interesting. So if other people have found this interesting as well, where can they find out more about you and some of the things that you've got to offer for people?

Yeah, so my website is empoweringtransformation.co.uk and my Facebook page is just facebook.com helenhardware and if people are interested in having a go and taking the quiz, I'll send you a link. I don't know if you can put that in the.

We can put that in the Self Believe Cheek podcast Facebook group as well for people. So, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, we can definitely do that.

And, yeah, that's available on my website and the book comes out next week, so I'll send you an Amazon link as well.

Yes, very exciting. Well, Helen, thank you very, very much for your time and I hope the rest of the year is kind to us all and. But I hope it continues to be a successful one for you. I wish you all the best for the future.

Thank you.