Introducing: Book Blaster with Cameron Clarkson

Welcome to the Self Belief Sheet podcast. You're here with David Holman. If you haven't done so already, make sure to subscribe to the podcast to keep up to date with the latest episodes. We have episodes coming out every single day and today in this conversation we'll just be speaking with Cameron Clarkson, who's the CEO founder of Book Blaster. Now, having written a book in the past, I know the real challenges of getting something out there and how personal books are for people and that they take so much commitment and dedication. They're really kind of leaving your soul bare. Whether it's fiction, non fiction, whatever it is, it's something really, really meaningful for people. I want to bring Cameron on because what his company are doing is a real shift in terms of the landscape of books, but also the way the world's trending anyway. And so thank you very much for being here, Cameron. And I'd love to just start with, you've obviously founded this company, but what's the role that books has played in your life and what got you started?

Well, first of all, thank you so much for having me, David. It's a, it's a pleasure to be on today. Books for me have been a source of joy and growth and a little bit of magic ever since I was a kid. My grandmother used to take us to what was Borders Bookstore, and I'm not sure. Do they have Borders over there in the uk?

Yeah, we have a slight variation of bought, so we don't board with something slightly different. But yeah, we're familiar with what you're talking about.

Well then, and you don't have to be at a Borders to know that, that book stores are a magical place. So we would spend hours, especially during the summertime and you know, we didn't have air conditioning in our full house. We had, you know, one room that had air conditioning and like a window unit. So it was a good way for us to all be able to spread out around the bookstore and we all get a chair and a drink and it was amazing. So I've always been surrounded by books and my mother is a professor, so she has extreme amount of books or what might seem to someone else like an extreme amount of books about things that are very obscure. She's a mathematics education professor, so, you know, how can somebody get so many books about teaching and teaching math and it's just like the fact that there are that many books about it and that people have thought this deeply about things that are so off seemingly in the fringes for know Lay people is really, really cool. So I've always been fascinated with books, but I'd never considered them as a niche until during the pandemic. We had to pivot our agency away from working with chefs and breweries like Blackstack and local businesses, especially in the Twin Cities. And since all of the businesses were shut down, we had to pivot to working with. We ultimately decided to start working with authors. A lot of people use that time during the pandemic to either get serious about sitting down to write a book that they've been trying to write for a while, or they've had a book but they wanted to try and promote it, or actually build a business around it or get some revenue behind it. So it was a really interesting time, David, to pivot to working with authors. And that was when I got into the world of book marketing. Not just books.

I'd love to talk about, you know, during that pandemic time, which was obviously awful for many, many people. Pivot was obviously a big word around that time, and people were. Some people were pivoting for the first time, some people were pivoting for the 10th time. When I was looking into your story, one of the things that you seemingly. You tell me if I'm wrong, seemingly have done pretty well is be able to make those pivots. And, okay, I'll keep up with where the landscape is. I'll keep up with where the economy is. I'll keep up with what people's interests are. And I think it's a real difficult skill. And I'm sure lots of people listening who have something they're passionate about. And sometimes it's hard to kind of let go of something that you're either good at or you enjoy or you're passionate about. But sometimes life forces you to make a pivot. How easy was it for you to make that pivot? How many pivots do you feel like you've had to make in your career? And what is it that people can do to pivot more easily?

You know, that's a great question, David. I'm not sure the. Official difference between a pivot and just regular growth. I think a lot of people are stagnant, and that lack of movement can. You know, I don't care if it's pivoting, moving forward, backwards, something like, it's just stagnant. And I think when I think about a lot of what my career has been, it has been moments of more stagnation or less stagnation. And. And when I'm at my best when I'm growing, I think and feeling my best like I'm performing at my best level. A lot of the movements I feel myself making are familiar. If you can imagine spiraling upward. So it's, you know, you can spiral out of control. And I've felt that too. You know, the same repetitive motions, whether it's drinking too much or whatever else. But I've also found a lot of growth in building systems. There's who's a James Clear in Atomic Habits Tomorrow talks about how we don't winners and losers have the same goals. We don't rise to the level of our goals, we fall to the levels of our systems. So I don't necessarily think so much about how often I've pivoted, but I do think about what are the daily habits that allow me to see opportunities, to take advantage of opportunities and be my best self. And you know, some of that I guess is pivoting, some of it's not. But by focusing on just being able to move and move well, I think that that's been more important.

I the analogy you use about the spiraling either way, I use with all the people I work with, which is you can either go in a downward spiral or you can go up a spiral staircase and you can, you know, you can spiral in different ways and understanding what causes you to spiral one way but also learn how to spiral the other way. If you understand those particular triggers, then it allows you to go one direction more often than not and do to do so more easily. So you create this business and you see a gap there where you go do you know what people really do struggle as authors to they'd put in all this work, their blood, sweat and tears go into this book and they have in their head that everyone's going to read it, everyone's going to see comes out and they don't because they don't have the skills, they don't have the abilities, they don't have the resources, the technology, maybe the money, whatever. You come along and you see something where you go. I can feel some of these gaps for people I know, as I said earlier when I wrote my book and there's a long time ago, 10 years plus, didn't have any knowledge, any understanding and. But you know, maybe a thousand people read it maybe, right. What do you think authors don't know or struggle with the most? You know, you don't know what you don't know. What do they struggle with the most that you see with all the people that you work with, where you go, if they could just get this bit right or this bit right, you know, sure, there's 10 things they could do better, but if they got this bit right, that would make such a huge difference. But so many people make the same mistake. What's the mistake you see people make very frequently?

Definitely. And I really appreciate this question. You're right. Writing a book is really hard. Writing a book is also different than publishing a book, which is a separate beast, which is also really hard.

Yeah.

But then after, after going through the writing and the publishing and the editing and if you make it all the way to the end, you hit publish on Amazon. And now your book is on the biggest marketplace in the world, David. And then it doesn't sell. That's when a lot of self doubt can start to set in. My book suck, like, is this not, you know, especially after spending all that time and money and energy getting the book to the point where you can put it out there in the world and then for it to just sit on the digital shelf is really demoralizing. But a lot of authors, most authors, I would venture to say, don't understand the difference between distribution and marketing. And Amazon is one of the best, if not the best distributor in the world. They're responsible for building the best distribution system. That is very different than building a marketing system for your book. So if, to answer the second part of the question, if most authors can just get to the point where they're bringing targeted traffic to a simple landing page and converting that traffic into a email list, you're 95% ahead of most authors out there. And you would be surprised how effective that simple marketing strategy, marketing and advertising strategy is. So we call it the bottomless book sales method. Again, it's creating a simple, optimized landing page, bringing targeted traffic to that landing page. When I wrote my first book, I focused primarily on. My first book is called bottomless book sales. And it's about the methodology. But I focused on telling authors to bring paid traffic to your landing page. Particularly for authors that are too busy to worry about organic marketing and some of the other strategies that while they might seem free, they cost a massive amount of time and energy to execute and to especially to learn how to execute well. So if you can put together a simple targeted paid campaign that drives traffic and puts your book in front of the right people, your book is for somebody. Somebody is waiting to read your book right now. But most authors get on Facebook and they post to their friends and family and chances are unless your book is all about your friends and family. And even then, you know, chances are it's not. They're not your target audience. So getting on the same socials every day and really posting to your direct friends and family, which is how most authors market, you know, their books are, you know, doing in person things, whatever, all that stuff is really great, but it doesn't scale. And once the people in your circle know about your book and they've told their friends and whatever else is going to happen, that's it. So how do you reach people? How do you reach new readers? How do you reach people who are already interested in your book? You can do that with a simple Facebook campaign or a simple TikTok campaign. But setting up an effective ad campaign is tedious and nuanced, and it's very easy to burn a lot of money and demoralize yourself even more if you don't do it right. So on one side, you have the potential to finally reach those people that you really wrote the book to reach, but on the other hand, you have to either learn how to build the system yourself or hire someone to do it. So one of the things that we wanted to do with Book Blaster is build a third option where you can use software, AI software in particular, to execute the bottomless book sales method on your own. So that is why we built Book Blaster.

And I love the fact that you're integrating this AI stuff and so talk us through with Book Blaster that the. The gaps that the AI fill in so at the different parts of the funnel, and people might be thinking, you know, some people might be not even aware of what maybe a funnel is in the sense of right traffic to landing page to whatever. Could you talk through some of the gaps that it feels? You talk to the biggest mistake that people can make. And if they could just get that simple part right, that'd be great. What are some, you know, what gaps is the AI essentially filling? That makes the whole thing much easier, much simpler, and takes off a lot of time and hassle for people.

I think that they're just having those assets in place is. Is the challenge. But I saw somebody post, I forgot where it was, but they said that AI takes away the excuse of the busy work that would otherwise stop it from getting done. So I'm like, you know, if nothing else, if you. If you don't use AI for anything else, using it, seeing it as an excuse buster, where it's like the tedious things that no one really wants to do. The best businesses in the world are built on boring things that no one really wants to do. But when you're setting up an effective campaign, there are just certain things, certain steps and protocols that have to be done each time. And even us as an agency, when we were setting up and part of the reason why we first started Book Blaster was to make our own internal process more efficient. It was because the process sucks. And it's a. It's a tedious, terrible process, but just like going to the gym. And I guess some people don't think going to the gym is tedious or terrible, but just like going to the gym, if you're going to see results, you have to follow a system that is consistent. But it's the challenge of the little steps along the way. For example, setting up a landing page. You have to pick a software to build a landing page. You can use WordPress, Squarespace, what is that one called? Shopify. There's so many different ways. Book Funnel, you know, that's a kind of a closer, direct competitor. But with Book Funnel there, it's a very simple, basic landing page, white background. And there are some buttons to either you guess that you have, you can purchase on their site, or you can buy the book directly from Amazon, but the purpose is just having that hub getting over the. Getting the landing page done. It doesn't have to be perfect. It doesn't have to be the next Facebook. It just has to be a simple landing page that gets the job done. And something. A free tidbit for anybody watching this. If you're writing a book and the title of your book is my. My. My life story, make sure you have my life story.com and use that as the domain for your website. A lot of authors, they. They build a page for their book and it's buried somewhere on their. Their author website. Or they like kind of adjust the homepage of their website. And if that's doable, that's definitely better than nothing. But the best strategy is to build a landing page specifically for your book. Use the domain name as the. Use the title of the book as the domain name. And, and even if you're on a podcast like this, it's much easier to say go to mylifestory.com rather than go to cameronclub.com books. Click on the first book in the top left and then scroll down and you're going to see a link to purchase my book. It's just more streamlined if more authors can just get to the point where it's like, okay, I just need to tell the right people about my book and give them a way to purchase it. It's really simple. But getting to the point where those things are happening is tedious and time consuming. And that's where AI has the opportunity to drive down the time it takes and drive up the cost. Excuse me, drive up the likelihood of success. To quote Alex or Mosey, I loved.

That quote that you said, and thoughts of AR in those terms. Could you, could you give us, I'm sure lots of people listening will be thinking the same thing. Could you give us an example of someone that was, you know, really, had been really struggling to get their message across, get their book out there, there they come to you, they go through this system and then they might maybe exceeded their own expectations of what they thought was possible. Would you be able to give us, you know, with discretion when necessary, could give us an example of where that you'd be able to create that turnaround for someone.

So one of the reasons why we got big on working with authors in the first place was we realized that a simple system like the bottomless book sales method could do a lot to, to help people get where they needed to go. So before we ever made software, before we ever built anything with AI, we were solving the simple problem of how do you sell books? How do you put books in front of the people who actually want them? How do you build an audience if you're someone who doesn't necessarily have one? So one of the people who actually went on to invest in our company was one of our first invest in our software company was one of our first clients as our agency. So when we were testing essentially the bottomless book sales method, we had a pretty good idea. You know, you open up a pizza restaurant, 100 people walk by on the street in a place with good foot traffic like people are going to walk in now, you can optimize that funnel. There's a lot of things you can do. But to, to bring it back home to this particular client. She had a children's book that was doing well and it did well during the holidays. It was a seasonal holiday themed book. And when the holidays ended and the initial, she had a really good, strong network too. So that initial buzz that we talked about in the beginning, when that buzz ended though, and the holidays ended too, if you had that, that initial launch and you do well, Amazon will, will also keep pushing your book organically. But when that buzz ended after the holidays, it went flat and went completely cold. So she came to us and she wanted to know if our bottomless book sales method, it would become the bottomless book sales method, but if we could help her get the life back into her book sales. And so that was our first official client or maybe second official client, but that was when we named it the bottomless book sales method. And like I said, she saw so much success from her campaign, that first campaign, that she hired us for her second book. And then when we told her we were launching a software company to execute the bottomless book sales method, she was our first investor. So that is one of my favorite success stories. One, because it validated our system and really showed us that this is a framework that most authors can apply and it works. There are some exceptions, some authors, for example, if you write subject matter that is tricky to run paid ads on, it doesn't. It's a little bit harder to follow the exact framework. But that's why I'm glad that I spoke. We had a Future of book marketing virtual summit back in March and one of our guests was a friend of mine, Josh Schwartz from Pub Vendo. He's the CEO of Pub Vendo, the really cool agency. That's a bigger scale of what we were doing before we started Book Blaster. But he said something that I kind of borrowed from him in terms of traffic. But I've always been a really big advocate for paid traffic, like I mentioned before, David, but he brought my attention, brought my attention back to the other two types earned an organic traffic as well. So while those are there are pros and cons to every type of traffic. But the main thing that most authors don't understand is that when you run out of milk, you go to a place that has milk and you buy it. When you don't have have traffic, you go to a place that has traffic and you buy it in whatever form that is. You know, organic, paid and earned media all have their price. But being aware that there are different ways to bring targeted traffic to your landing page is a big hurdle to get over. But once you get over that, it's pretty simple. You don't always need to be running ads, you don't always need to be doing podcasts. The beautiful part of having that system in place is any type of traffic, whether it's long tail traffic from your blog, that you get longer over time, you know, that's great, you will sell books. That way you won't see the same type of results as somebody who flips on a ad campaign where they're spending a hundred dollars A day. But it just depends on what your goals are, what your budget is and how much time and energy you're willing to put in to get where you want to go.

What do you think the landscape is in terms of people putting books out? I remember the people I know now who try and write self published books. It feels like either the reasons they're doing it or some of, I guess some of the motivating factors in some ways feel different to 10, 15 years ago while people doing, and I might be aligning this to, to my industry or my niche, which is obviously in I suppose, coaching, self help space. So obviously there's, it's going to differ in different spaces or industries. Where do you think books exist in 2023, do you think? Did you notice you said there was an up, uptick in people trying to get books out during the pandemic. Presumably people were reading, you know, re engaging with books during the pandemic as well. Have you seen the landscape change when it comes to, you know, the book industry in terms of getting stuff out there and how, what do you think it looks like in the next five or 10 years? And I remember, the only other thing I'll say is that, you know, I remember when the Amazon Kindle came out and I remember thinking, well, obviously everyone's going to read, read on an Amazon Kindle now. Like everyone, of course everyone's going to do that. You can fit a thousand books on one thing and it exists. But it didn't, in no way did it do what I thought it was going to do. And people still love being able to just hold a book in their hands. So how do you see the landscape today and what do you think it's going to look like over the next decade?

Yeah, those are all great questions and I like how they tie together. Going back to that summit we had back in March, we got to speak with, or I got to speak with a lot of really cool people about the book industry as a whole. And you're right, while there have been changes in delivery, you know, whether it's audio books, ebooks, whatever else, there's nothing like good old fashioned paper books. I love waiting for them in the mail even. There's something about it and it's more than nostalgia. It is, there's there, there is a value in having a physical book. I also like to double up and listen to an audiobook. And while I'm reading a physical book, especially if it's one of my, my books that I revisit every year for My career, my personal development or whatever, where we are. And I'm glad that you mentioned the growth of publishing during the pandemic. It's interesting if you look at the amount of books that are published every year that you can, you can see on a bar chart between 2020 and 2021, there's a, there's an uptick in the amount of books. I don't remember what that uptake was, but one of the talking points that I remember just from talking with investors or whatever else is that self publishing has been growing at 17% a year before the AI revolution that was unleashed last November. So the ability for people to get their story out into the world has been, the barriers to entry on that have been lower and lower every year. Platforms like Amazon have helped with that part and the distribution part. But there is still, David, as you know, a huge bottleneck with getting the story from, or storybook, whatever, from here and here and out into the world. So for me, I also really struggled with that. And one of the ways that I was able to get over it was to start dictating my book into my phone. And I would go on these long walks and I would have so much more success speaking my book into existence rather than sitting at a computer writing it. I think a lot of people were like me that, sitting down to write the book by hand. Even though I actually, I wrote out what I, what I, what I wanted the book to be. So many different times and I had pages and pages and pages of what I, you know, of the book. But it still wasn't, you know, I didn't feel like I was making progress. I feel like I just kept writing out the same kind of pages and like long form notes and I wasn't getting too the book, I wasn't getting my voice, I wasn't getting out and just felt so slow. But once I started to speak my book and go in and take the transcripts from, there'd be these long blogs. I was just using the Notes app and it was super janky, but it was getting the job done and I was able to get the first version of my book out there. And that's where so many people get stuck. They never get the first version of their product, their business, their book out there to get critiqued and torn apart and then to come up with something better. So one of the things that I've been very excitedly watching is how people are using AI not to, not to market the books. I mean, I am excited about that. I'm Seeing I'm personally invested in that. But there are so many more people that are realizing now that they can bring their book to life with AI, whether it's. I've seen a lot of people take mid journey and do some illustration stuff. Other people have been using chat GPT to do whatever to make their book wherever they were stuck, whether it's an outlining, wherever they were stuck, they're using AI to get unstuck. And so one thing that I'm very interested in watching is, and that we're working on is building a mobile app in our case where users can essentially use AI ghost writing. And as easy as you and I are having a conversation, speak to an AI ghostwriter and have a real authentic human story in our own voice, be almost extracted. That doesn't sound like a fun word. But to be prompted to be asked about our story and to kind of tell our book rather than have to sit down and write it, I think that is. And be able to say it in just natural language and then from there to be able to behind the scenes, we don't need to know how all the sausage is made. But just like any other ghostwriting process. And as you probably know, it's so much easier to create books and lots of books if you have a system in place or a team in place. And AI just represents a whole nother level that you can either have your team leverage, you can use AI with your team, or you can forego a team altogether, utilizing a creative mix of AI tools and strategies.

And when we talk about AI, you know, there are things with AI where, like what you're doing, where there is only, there is only really upside in the sense that it allows people to do something, to make the barrier to entry accessible for more and more people. Where, you know, 10, 20 years ago, the idea of getting a book or having a book or publishing a book was, you know, for the less than 1% and you had to have so much in place. And I'm curious though, beyond your business, you know, there are lots of places where I can see AI is, is incredibly useful. I just want you to, as someone who's working in this world and you work in this niche in AI, but no doubt like anything when you're learning, you learn this much so that you can understand the tiny bit that you need to know for, for what you do. So having seen the wider landscape, how do you feel about AI in terms of where the world's going, going to go, in terms of any concerns that you have of Where AI is used elsewhere in the world. How, how do you think that all plays out? And what do you, what do you think it does to the world?

I think that's a great question, David. So much so that the title of my next book is called the Way the World Is Moving the Rise of the Passion Economy. And my book is all about what happens when all of the jobs that can be. I was jokingly telling you about it before the call, but the ones that can be AI'd away are AI'd away, right? So in a world where anything that can be automated or outsourced or a combination of those two things can be and will be, what does that leave us? And my argument is that leaves our passion, and it has now it's more possible, but also more necessary to lean into our passion and who we are and what we really love to do. And I think that it's very important to understand love in its whole form. It doesn't necessarily mean that I always have a smile on my face when I do xyz. A lot of times for me, when I think about passion, it's what is play for you and for other people is work. And yeah, it doesn't mean that it's, you know, 100% play all the time, but there are certain things that light us up and there are certain topics that we can talk on about and our friends are like, shut up. Like. But it's, it's interesting and it's really fun when you get around other people that share those passions and you are, yes, anding each other and you're lighting each other up and, and you're, you're, you're, you're, you're leaning into that. Now is the time when connecting with those other people that share the things that light you up is not just a luxury of the rich and people who have spare time. It's something that we really need to do and need to think about how we shape our lives around. Because I believe that is quickly becoming what's left and not just where we can provide value from an economic sense, but where we can find fulfillment and what, what we love to do. And, you know, what this, what this moment in history really represents. I think we can either be terrified of the things that are going away and the things that are bound to change as a result of new technologies like AI, but if we are brave enough to have a mindset of abundance and think about all of the possibilities, like my job, for example, that wasn't a possibility, didn't exist. Two years ago. So does it matter who you are, what you love to do? The way to create value in the passion economy is what I call the three Cs. Create creativity, collaboration and context. So if you can creatively look around, you see what's going on and you don't have to have all the answers yourself. But if you're passionate about something and you can find your people, whatever that is, whatever it looks like. I just came back from a walk to a local plant. They have a, a nursery and they also have a greenhouse. But the owner, Colin, we, we geeked out a little bit about just having boring businesses and the ability to make your time your own. And at the end of that I asked if we'd be interested in doing a partnership with my side projects. I'm working on getting a power washing website and I know nothing about power washing up and running and doing that, building a business public as a side project, but being able to connect with someone who is a neighbor who ultimately be spending my money with anyways, you know, we're going to buy flowers and vegetables and all that type of stuff anyways. But to have a connection where I can maybe send some more business his way and he gives us a cool partnership where now we can say, you know, the first 10 people that sign up for a quote with Blue Power Washing get a free azalea plan. They're absolutely beautiful. So being able to do those types of creative collaborations, once you can start to think like that and see the abundance of opportunities, there's so many different ways to get connected with the people and things that are right in front of us. So that's cool.

What's the first book you ever read or can remember reading?

Oh man, I'm sure it was some form of the Bible, like as you know, I'm just sure that's what it is. Thinking about the people who raised me, the women who raised me, my mom and my grandmother, I'm sure I had, you know, those cardboard books I remember like chewing on them. I don't know. But a lot of the books that I read, you know, as a five to, you know, whatever you were about sports. And I really love reading about historical sports moments. Old, you know, I love reading about the old Super Bowls and old Jesse Owens, the 1942 Olympics in Berlin, all the different people that I grew up idolizing on the field. And a lot of them actually also loved reading about history in any form. I actually liked reading American Girl books and other books like that that had those kind of historical Narratives that really allowed me to immerse myself in a particular time period. But yeah, I, I definitely don't remember the first book, but I definitely imagine that one of the first books I ever heard read to me or had around was some form of the Bible.

I, I think, I think we're quite similar in, in some of our experiences. You've also got an interest in sport as well, as do. I think your background is also studying around political sciences, which is the, the same as myself as well. I wanted to ask one more question, but before I get into that, just for people who are listening and seeing some of the simplicity that Cameron's able to bring to what is actually quite a complex thing in being able to get your message out to the world and be able to market and publish it, which speaking from not only personal experience, but how quickly times have changed in terms of what's actually possible out there to have someone like Cameron in your corner who can take away so much stress and hassle that you might not even be aware of yet until you get to the moment you try and get your book out there or try to get your message out, then you realize it's this, you know, field with millions and millions of people who are competing and there's a line in what film is it? Interstellar, where trying to get into space but they sort of don't have the out of the box thinking. And one of the characters basically says they're all thinking too small and it says don't compete in the dirt with everyone else. You only have to, you know, get the rocket out of the atmosphere to have your own lane. As to the point you made earlier, which is just having a tiny bit more knowledge or a tiny bit more skill or a tiny bit more simplicity. And I always say complexity the enemy of execution. Tiny bit more gets you out of the, you know, away from the millions who are all doing the same thing and not, not totally sure. So if you've been inspired by what Cameron's able to provide and able to do, have a look at Book Blaster Cameron, tell people a bit more about where they can get in touch with you and tell people a bit more about your book that you've got coming out in terms of the way the world is moving as well.

Yeah, for sure. So I only, I don't really work with clients on an agency side anymore. What I am interested in doing more of is helping people, people build their passion business. So if you want to build your own Book Blaster, one of the things about books and yeah, it's, it's a passion, but, but more I also just have a passion for problem solving and, and, you know, building cool things. So it kind of just worked out. But one of the things that I am passionate about is helping people who don't necessarily see themselves as software developers or tech people, whatever that means. Helping them realize that they can and are almost better equipped to be a software founder than someone who has a hardcore tech background. Building a very valuable thing, very valuable software tool has much more to do with your ability to empathize and understand a problem, be passionate about something. And it's a lot of times the unsexy things that people come to understand from their day in, day out work, that, that understanding is the source of building something valuable. The first versions of Book Blaster weren't very good, but we had a deep understanding of the pain and the problem that authors face. Like you said, when you're facing the daunting tasks of getting your book out there, and so many authors don't even really know what that means, they just have the pain. So being able to take on the tedious and the terrible with, with passion is one of the things that, it's why most software companies fail. Most people build something that they think is really cool and then they go try and find a problem for it, rather than starting with a deep, painful thing. The types of things that people experience, you know, over the course of working a career. So those are the types of people that I really would love to help build a business that I say, you know, I call it a business in a backpack, a business that you can run from anywhere. My next book, like you mentioned, David, is called the Way I mentioned earlier too, the Way the World Is Moving, the Rise of the Passion Economy. And it's all about how we can use our passions to build a business that we love to run. And so if you do what you love to do, as the corny saying goes, you never work a day in your life, but it's really true. And then, you know, where you can get to where I'm at now, where I'm working on lifestyle design and designing my day to be to where I'm, I'm. Yeah, of course I want to build a business that's successful and, and is a really cool thing and makes a lot of money, but I also want to make sure that I don't build a business that I start to hate because it's, it's sucking my time or my energy or it's taking me away from my family or my friends. Because ultimately I started a business and became an entrepreneur for freedom. Money is one thing and that's great, but it was really more about my freedom and having the ability to be the captain of my own time. And the moment that my entrepreneur, excuse me, the moment that my project or business becomes my boss or, or you know, my cage, that's, you know, that's the moment that I gotta walk away. But by building lifestyle and building my, my business with the intention of supporting my lifestyle and not the other way around, I, yeah, I'm, I'm excited to share what I'm learning in, in that space as well. But if you want to reach out, my website is tamaraclarkson.com the title of my next book is the Way the World is Moving. You can hopefully Google that pretty soon and it'll be the first thing that comes up. But if you go to the way, the waytheworldismoving.com I do have that domain so I practice what I preach and it'll take you to my landing page. So we have a pre sale order.

Linked up actually, and that's a useful segue into the last question I wanted to ask you, which is the stuff you've done with Book Blaster but also the many things you've done before that you've ultimately been helping a lot of people. Everyone, everyone had to be quite cliche about. Everyone has a message that they'd like to be able to get out to the world. Some people have the skill or the value but don't know how to communicate it. Some people know how to communicate but don't have the skill or the value. So you've helped a lot of people be able to communicate something important to them or their value to the world. And you've helped everyone else do that and help them get their message out there. And I'm curious to know what's the message you want to get out to the world fundamentally?

That's a great question. This is a great time to be alive and creative and passionate and thinking about how your unique units can make the world a better place. Because that's literally the only thing that is going to be left here pretty soon. So the timing is right for big dreamers and big thinkers. And this moment belongs to the people that are willing to take a few risks and be empathetic, be creative, collaborate and to look around and see what's going on and to dive in.

I think that's a great message to, to leave it on. Cameron, thank you very, very much for your time.

Yeah. David, thank you so much. It's been a pleasure.