#142 - Tax Season Boom or Bust w Bill Nylan

Hey, everybody, we've got Tax Max here again. Bill Nealon is going to go over. Did I say that right, Bill?

Yes.

He's going to go over the best strategies to make Tax Max work for you and also debunk some of the myths that we've been hearing about tax season. So great episode, a lot of insight, and I think it'll make a lot of us happy. Thanks for being here, Bill.

Thank you. I appreciate it.

Okay, here we go.

You are listening to the Independent Dealer podcast with hosts Luke Godwin and Jeff Watson. Thank you so much for tuning in. Let's do this. Hey, thanks for having me. I appreciate it. My name is Bill Nealon. I'm the president and CEO of Tax Refund Services, Tax Max. Basically, we're a nationwide company in all 50 states, and basically, simply put, what we do is we give the dealership the ability to access a customer's tax refund up to eight weeks before the IRS releases it. And we have programs from the retail space where, just simply put, they use the program for January, February, and March. Then we have programs for the buy here, pay here dealer where they can actually utilize Tax Season and the tax program all 365 days a year. We've been in business for 25 years. We've processed over a million tax returns, and we're very proud of our Better Business Bureau rating. We've had an A rating for the entire 25 year history. So we're very good at what we do, but we're really focused on the dealer and the dealer's customer.

Yeah. And I want to make two notes here. A good for you for even being within arm's length of the irs. I don't. I don't see how you could ever look at that business model and say, we want to work with the irs. Like that's. You're absolutely a saint for that.

B.

Any dealers out there that are starting to tune out, because when they hear the word tax Max and tax refund, they start thinking, only buy here pay here. Right. Obviously, it's a very, very strong benefit for buy here, pay here dealers. But just real quick, let's talk a little bit about the retail type dealer that's using an outside source, a credit union, a bank, cash sales, even some of the third parties, like CAC are starting to allow some deferred downs for a certain period of time under certain restrictions of certain amounts. Right?

Yeah. So it depends on the finance company and how it works. But with the retail space, there literally is zero risk. They literally starting January 2nd can process a customer's W2 through us or any tax season partner within one to two hours can get access up to $6,000 printed in their printer or even loaded on a prepaid Visa card that we provide. And that literally is the down payment. So for retail, most denials in some form of fashion are because of lack of down payment. A lot of dealers say, no, no, no. We turn people down because they have bad credit. Well, they have bad credit and they came up with $6,000. You think you can get them approved? And they said, well, of course. So in theory, really, most denied are due to lack of down payment in some form of fashion. So with a tax program or a tax partner, we give the dealer the ability to come up and access that tax money as early as January 2nd and get that customer approved. Now, as you guys know, as well as the more money down, that money, in essence, is like profit for the dealer. So if they sell a car for 10,000 and they can get 5,000 down, they're only financing 5,000, then maybe they're getting $0.65 to $0.70 on the dollar on the 5,000 versus 1,000 down and financing 9,000 and getting $0.65 to 70 cents on the dollar on the 9,000. So for retail, and like you said, it's very well overlooked, is that the more down payment they get, the more profit they make on that deal, and there's no risk, no recourse. They literally just ask for the money to say, I know you're getting a $10,000 refund this tax season. Let's access some of it right now.

So, Bill, I got a question, and I think it's kind of on everybody's mind, and you're right, that, Jeff, what you were talking about, it doesn't matter what part of the automotive industry you're in. That tax money helps buy here, pay here, whatever. It doesn't matter. So that kind of comes to this question. We know a lot of people got stimulus checks earlier in 2020 for Covid, and I always thought that that stimulus money was going to probably be taken out of their tax refund.

Is that the case?

Is there anything, you know about that? Are we going to have a tax season this year because of all that?

That's an excellent question. We've been getting calls from our dealers. We have 3,000 dealers we work with every year, and that's their number one question they've been asking. So the question is, does that stimulus money affect the tax return? The answer is absolutely no. That literally was a grant, a stimulus check that has no bearing on their tax return. It was not in advance of their tax return. It's not. They don't owe it back. It literally has nothing to do with their tax return. So the second part of your question was, is there going to be a tax season? Absolutely. So this coming tax season, we're calling it the most important tax season ever, and that this is going to be the next form of stimulus for these customers.

Wow, that's great news. Because I don't know where that came from originally, but it seems like when that money first started rolling out, it's like, yeah, but it's gonna affect their tax refund. I'm glad to hear that that's not the case.

It definitely not the case. So that if anyone takes anything from this tax season is expected to be stronger than ever. And all that money, some people got up to $4,000 in stimulus. Yeah, money's not owed back, so.

Wow. And it wasn't an advance on their 2020?

No, absolutely was not an advance.

Misinformation, man.

So they got a point.

Exactly.

Misinformation. So these people got a $4,000 stimulus in April and May. Come this tax season, they're still gonna get a 10 to $12,000 tax refund.

That's great.

So we're out of work for four months of the year. That's gonna affect it, right?

Yes.

Or unemployment.

Yes and no. One thing going on right now with the Republicans and Democrats, they both agree that something needs to be done in regards to the amount of unemployment that people received. So there's actually some proposed bills in Congress right now where they're actually looking to expand the child tax credit from $2,000 to up to $3,600 per child. With the current $2,000 tax credit, only $1400 of it is refundable. So, meaning if they only made $10,000 for the year, they can only get 1,400 per child. They're looking at making the entire $3,000 or $3,600 fully refundable. So if someone made $20,000 a year, had three kids, they get $3,600 per child, plus the earned income credit. We could possibly look into tax season with refunds 25 to 50% higher than they were last year. Yes. And there will be a lot of news coming in the next two to three months on this subject.

You think that could happen before tax filing deadline, that they could make those kind of changes and adjustments?

I think there's a Good chance we'll know more once we see what the political landscape looks like. But once again, that's one thing that they both agree on, is that these folks that make less than $50,000 a year may need some relief from the unemployment. Now, we've ran a bunch of models on our side using the average demographics of a tax max customer with the average type of dealer. We came up with the average customer makes around $22,000 to $24,000, has 2.2 children. So let's say if they made $22,000 2019, well, that 22,000 for 2020 may look like 10,000 of it is unemployment, and 12,000 is a wage. The earned income credit on the wage of 12,000 is actually higher than it was the year before at the 22,000. And with all the credits will make unemployment either muted, where there'll be no effect on the refund at all, or some models show that maybe an $8,000 refit fund check may drop to $7,000. So there is, once again, misinformation, a lot of noise about stimulus is not taxable, and unemployment's gonna wipe out tax season. That's so not the case as well.

All right, so I've got a question. It's kind of specifically for, I guess, the car business when it comes to this. Cause I know y' all do some other. And it may even affect those other business, but. So that stimulus money was used across the board for a lot of different things. Making car payments, buying new cars. Because we know that most everybody. Not everybody, but across the board, it seems like we've had a really good year when it comes to the car sales and collection side. So should we be thinking that maybe some of, you know, with this money they're going to get from their tax refunds in early 2021, you think it's going to be used for cars, or do you think there's something else in the economy that it may be useful?

I think there's gonna be a lot of other things that money's being used for. What people are not talking about right now is that there's been a lot of moratoriums on evictions, so. Meaning that landlords cannot evict anyone because they're behind on their rent, because they can just say that, hey, I'm damaged due to the COVID and I can't pay my bills. The same holds true for electric companies, the water companies, cell phone, cable. All of those companies have made policies internally saying, hey, we're not going to shut People's phones off. We're not going to shut their electric off because of being behind. So a lot of people on purpose are behind on their bills. And like you said earlier, car sales have been at a record high. Another thing that people are talking about, same with boat sales. Boat sales are through the roof. Motorcycles, ATVs, people are using their money that they would normally make their electric bill payments and their rent are spending it on toys. So now we expect things to kind of rear its head in December in Tampa. Tampa Electric said you had till the end of October to get current on your electric bills. Otherwise they're going to begin disconnections the beginning of November. AT&T has come out and said that they're going to start shutting people off now for people who are behind in their cell phone payments. So the national moratorium on evictions ends in December. So there will be a lot of people that will either have to a come up and get current in their rent or they will be evicted.

Yeah, good luck with six months of rent. Yeah.

So what happens is, if they get evicted, they still need to find somewhere else to live. They will need to come up with a deposit plus the first month's rent. So it's still going to be cash negative that month of December, January, as these evictions happen. So we anticipate that delinquencies and some of our channel checks are showing. This being the case, delinquencies are starting to edge up in the beginning of November, and we anticipate that to spike as we get towards the end of the year.

Yeah, that's interesting. I think that we are going to have a tax season out listening to you, but I just wonder if it's going to. Either they're gonna be paying their bills or they're gonna be buying new cars. I think there's gonna be. I think it's gonna be kind of a 50, 50 deal. You know, it's definitely not gonna be all car money and all.

Luke, what do you think about those. What do you think about those people that are gonna drop their $700 a month payment with the subprime lender that they got over the last two years because things get tight. And then they're gonna come to us in February, March and say, hey, I got this thing. It's an $800 payment, but I can't afford it anymore, and I need you to get me into something.

I think.

Do you think that that squeeze from rent and utility and cell phone and the car payment, that's way Too high. You think that'll drop people into our market?

I think that happens a lot, Jeff. And I think people use that tax money a lot of times to get out of a car that, that, yeah, they're done with, they didn't need. And I think we definitely will see that, especially with if people were having to use, having to pay their electric bill and their, you know, all this. You see something like that maybe happening, Bill?

Yeah. And Jeff, you bring up a good point. You know, we've been doing this for 25 years, and this is starting to mirror the Great Recession in 2008. 9. And what happened? That's exactly what happened. That people were overextended with credit, had too much car payment, and they were dropping all these new cars off back of the dealerships and then coming back down into the subprime buy here, pay here market. So this is replaying itself exactly on the consumer side. The different from the difference from this epidemic and the Great Recession on the dealership side is that dealers still have access to credit. During the Great Recession, credit was completely shut off for the dealership. So they were kind of, you know, they were screwed. So one thing now is that the consumer is screwed, but the dealerships are in healthy situations. So with this tax season coming, let's say these people are going to get a $10,000 tax refund. They may owe $15,000 in bills. So that's why we are expected to have one of our best seasons ever. We're signing up new dealers every day because they're recognizing the fact that with a tax season partner, the tax refund goes to the dealer. So the dealer will be able to take what money is owed to them, whether it's for a delinquent account or selling a new car or getting that extra down payment that they need. The then they will take what money's due to them and then give the consumer back the difference. And then the consumer may have 8,000 left to spend still $15,000, bill. So that's what's beautiful about having a tax season partner is that the dealership's in control of the money, not the customer.

That is so important. And I've been customer of yours before and it was so great to be able to print that check and actually have it. So I agree with that.

So.

What right now, I guess, has.

Your fourth quarter program started?

What? Okay, so right now, how can a dealer use it to really, you know, to have a great fourth quarter?

So that's a good question. So for the buy here, pay Here, space. Obviously they are the bank, the lender. So we have. There's two ways you can utilize from the buy here, pay here. Side one is the traditional fourth quarter program. That's where a customer will come in. And we suggest some advertising and marketing. One of our strongest advertisements is drive now, pay later. And a dealership will advertise that. And obviously a lot of people come onto the lot and say, hey, I want to take advantage of this. I want to get a car and buy it now and drive it off and pay it later. And what in essence that means is that the consumer still needs to put a down payment down. So let's say a dealer said, we have one dealer, we work with, dealer group, that they require 15% down no matter what car. So let's say it's a, you know, a $10,000 sale. The customer only has $600 as a down payment. Well, most dealers I talk to say, well, I'll take $600 right now as a down payment, extend the term. Well, our dealers are doing is they'll take the $600 down, they'll estimate what the future tax refund is going to be for this coming season, and then they will schedule a pickup payment or defer down for the difference. So if they require $1,500 down, the customer only has 600. The deficiencies, 900. And the dealership may say, well, you know, you're getting an $8,000 refund. Let's take $1,200 out of that refund, if that's okay, instead of that 900. And now they're getting the 1,200 plus the 8 or 600. So now they're getting $1,800 down, as opposed to the 1,500 they were asking for and opposed to the 600 they were willing to settle for. So that's one way to do it. Now, with certain DMSs that dealers have that we partner with IDMs, Wayne Reeves, a bunch of others, Autostar, Automaster, they're able to use taxis in all 365 days a year. So let's say it's June 1st and same scenario, dealer requests $1,500 down, customer has $600, they're able to schedule an irregular payment in the contract for that 900 or $1,200 down for February 28, and they're able to reduce their term by 10 to 20%. So if you have a dealership with a term of 40 months, if they're willing to take $600 down, and extend the term. Now, the term goes from 40 months to 45 months or 46 months. But if they're using a tax season partner, they can take that 40 month term, take a down payment, schedule a tax season payment for February 28, reduce that term now from 40 months to 33 or 34 months. So it's a huge win for the dealer because imagine what your P and L and your cash flow statement looks like by collecting your money early. It's also a benefit for the consumer because they're paying less interest and they're, you know, sometimes their car payments lower as well. So it's a win, win for both. And we've been doing the irregular payment or we call the tax season all 365 days a year program. We've been doing that for about six, six or seven years now. And the data is strong because the consumer has equity in the car so much faster. These consumers are more likely and willing to make it to the end of the race and make that last payment. So we're seeing the success rate being doubled on the irregular payment as well as once again, if you collect, say you sell 50 cars a month, that's 600 cars a year. You collected an extra $1200 for every car that you sold. You're looking at 720, $20,000 as extra cash flow in your bank account every February, every tax season. This isn't paper profits or funny accounting tricks. It's real cash. So it's been a game changer in the buy here payer industry. Ken Shilson's been kind of working with us as well on some of the analytics and it's very early. But once again, anytime you can reduce your term from 40 to 45 months to 33 to 35 months, it's a win, win. It's a game changer for sure.

Sorry to interrupt the podcast, but great news. The independent dealer podcast has its official first sponsor, Luke. Our very first sponsor. The great guys, Tim Taylor Byrd over at Dealer Re, have stepped up and said, hey, we're gonna sponsor the podcast that allows us to continue to make the episodes. It allows us to increase our production value, expand our exposure, get the word out to more people. Our promise to the podcast nation, Luke, to our listeners, to those that tune in, is that we will not turn this into some sort of paid ad nonsense. We are only going to accept sponsors from companies that we use in our own dealerships and that we stand behind and know will benefit those that listen. Dealer Re is definitely one of those companies right Luke, for sure.

And I, you know, the history I have with Dealer Re goes all the way back from 2011. I've known Taylor probably since he was in high school, and I've known Tim for all that time. Really good people. This is a quality company. They've been doing my reinsurance since 2011. And for dealers out there don't exactly understand what reinsurance is, go back and listen to our podcast on it. But if you understand to a point what reinsurance is and you want to investigate it, you need to contact Dealer Re. That is the single best decision I've made in the car business was setting up my reinsurance company. And I know that sounds like a huge statement, but it is the truth. It will change your life, it will change your business and change the way you do business, and it'll help your customers as well. So, Jeff, I can't recommend anyone more highly than delore.

Yeah, it's a great first sponsor for us. That's episode 19, if you want to go back to 19. That's May 16th of 2019. We spoke with Tim. We talked all about reinsurance and how it's going to benefit your dealership. Tune into that. Give the guys over there a call, explore your options. They're doing a special for our podcast listeners. So if you do call them and you say, hey, want the podcast special? They're throwing in the College of Automotive Management. It's a federal compliance ethics course that's done online. So this is so that you can stay compliant inside your dealership. You can teach your people. It's like a $500 value that they're giving to the podcast listeners when you get signed up with them. We had to have something to sweeten the pot. And also they know that we sent you.

Yep. And it's going to be you get this done. You won't regret it. I promise you that.

All right, back to the episode.

So, you know, I was thinking about last time you're on and you were talking about, and I wasn't even thinking, but you partner with other people in the industry to repair shops. And I can't remember, there was like a couple other companies, but I was thinking, you know, is there a way for us to partner with other people around town that are doing, you know, they're using tax max to try to get some sales, you know, that way.

Can people partner up or how does.

That, you know, is there any opportunities there?

I guess, yeah, we've got a couple other brands. One's the Drive Down Network. And since we've been doing this for 25 years. We saw a need about seven or eight years ago that consumers were calling us directly and say, hey, I purchased a vehicle in Tennessee using my tax return. Now I moved to Arkansas. What dealers do you work with in Arkansas? To where I can utilize my future tax return to buy a vehicle. So we created the Drive now network, and it's a system where if a customer goes online and Google's I want to buy a car with my tax return or buy a car with my W2, the Drive now network shows up 1, 2, and 4 on Google. And basically it's just a network of us pairing consumers with dealerships looking for that product.

Nice repair shop, too, Luke. I mean, you got a repair shop and someone's got a $3,000 engine, they can't cough up the money. Money. You're gonna put them on a payment term with a balloon payment when their tax check.

Yeah. Strangely enough, we work with repair shops. We work with pool builders. We work with anyone who's looking for money to help. We've worked with realtors in the past when there was a big boom in the real estate business where they would just say, hey, bring your W2 and we'll put you into a house. Anyone who has something to sell and needs money or needs a down payment or, once again, like Jeff said, there's a lot of people who may have a blown transmission and they gotta wait till tax time to get their car fixed, well, it's really simple. Just have a repair shop utilize the tax program they can, especially if the car's paid off. They can put a lien on the car as well as ask the customer to come back with their W2 and satisfy the obligation. But they can repair that car right now.

Yeah, and that's kind of the rub, Luke. And for people that are listening to this saying, wait a minute. This isn't guaranteeing me any money as far as the fourth quarter program goes. And that would maybe be my apprehension this time around. Bill, I've used your program for eight years or something, and I'm a little anxious to say, okay, it's November, December. I'm gonna roll you in a car with a $3,000 deferred down. You've got to come back to me sometime in January with your W2 so that I can actually file your tax returns. Because between now and then, it's just kind of a promissory note that says, I'm deferring. You're down. Bring me your W2s so I can Actually file them. And then I'm guaranteed to get that money once we physically file. So there's a little bit of a risk between now and getting that customer to come back with the W2s in hand that they might not show up. And we've had that, I don't know, maybe one a year. Out of the 15 to 20 to 30 deals we do, where they look at and they say, wait a minute, I owe four seasons three grand. If I take them this W2, they're gonna yank it from me. Or I can just run down to H and R Block, do my own taxes, and just tell them to take a hike, you know, because they're so desperate for money at that point. So that's what I worry about, is they'll say yes. Now January, they're gonna be so desperate for money, they're gonna say, screw you guys.

Bill, how y' all got to know what the percentage of that is? I mean, what do y' all see?

Yeah, there's a couple comments. So one, your numbers are kind of spot on. We usually see that 90% will come through and satisfy the obligation and 10% will not. And most times of that 10%, the deal unravels before tax season. So let's say you sold.

Probably true. If I look at those ones, I probably knew they were coming. Yes, they missed their first payment because I still have payments come due right. Right before that time. So, you know, and I look at it and say, and I think this is the key statement. Sorry to cut you off, Bill. I want you to go back to what you're saying. But would you do the deal without the deferred down? If the answer is yes, then do it. The deferred down is only the icing on the cake. If you're making the deal with that deferred down and it's the only reason you would do it, don't do it. You gotta be willing to tuck that down payment back into the amount, keep them going. And if they've made you what you're gonna have, six BI weekly payments by the time their W2's hit. If I did one today, you know, every two weeks, I'm gonna know if that guy's spot on and making his payments or not. Then I just say, hey, let's just put that two grand on the back of your loan and refinance it.

Yeah, and that's spot on because what you just said, if you were gonna do the deal anyway, a lot of people will stop me and say, look, this is too Risky for me rather just take the $600 down and extend the term. Well, if you're taking the $600 down asking for extra money out of the tax check, there's no additional risk in doing that because 90% will pay out, 10% won't, and 10% that don't pay out. Some dealers do get really focused on that and said, well, they didn't make their payments in December. Well, a tax check had nothing to do with that. So it was just a bad deal anyway. A second statement too, is that what we recommend is never take more than 30% of the refund. So taking 3,000 or 4,000 as a special tax season payment technically may be hurting you. Another thing we recommend too is, you know, whatever, down. For example, if someone's filing their taxes fresh, and most dealerships in February will require $2,000 down. So we always say, well, then don't make that special payment more than that down dollar amount. So, for example, if it's gonna cost $2,000 to get into a new car, then only ask for 1700 as your tax season payment because now the customer is gonna pay you the 1,700 because it's cheaper than paying another dealer 2,000. So that's something to be mindful about. That makes sense.

I think that's a big deal, especially if you're, if you're not selling a higher end ACV car and you, you know, they can give that back and go buy something else. You know, you got to make sure the car's running, you got it right. This isn't a silver bullet. So, yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

So we have an underwriting checklist that comes along with when we have a dealer doing these types of deals. So we give them guidance. Our system also generates a statement says we recommend not to schedule more than X dollars for a special tax season payment. So that's something new we actually started two or three years ago. So, Luke, you may not have seen some of our newer features, but we actually have underwriting criteria built into the tax program now, assisting dealers and steering the dealers down to scheduling the correct dollar amount. So we're actually seeing our success rates go from 90% to some dealers, up to 95 and 98%. Now. It's not foolproof. I mean, buy here, pay here. By definition, 28% of your deals are going to go bad. With the tax program, we've been able to actually steer These numbers to 90 to 95% of your deals will go good, meaning obviously 5 to 10% will go bad. So we're able to better the industry. So when doing some of these analytics, looking 12 months later after the tax season payment was made, we're seeing that 90% of these consumers are still active and current on the books. So these are good deals and they're good deals because there's more equity in the vehicle. The consumers, like I said, have that equity and the term is lower and the dealerships making more money on this. So let's say you Fast forward to 2 years, maybe these customers only have 8 to 10 months left versus 15 to 20 months left of their term. They're able to trade up into another vehicle before that car craps out. I mean that's really the name of the game, right? Is the customer going to make the final payment or, or is the car gonna crap out or is the consumer gonna have a life changing event where a divorce or something like that? So that's usually the buy here.

Parts. Sorry, Bill. Where I've been on the program before is those same people come back to me the next year or two years later. I know what they're gonna get. They got six grand two years ago, they're getting six grand again, like we're getting them another car. It's gonna happen. So that's one of the beauties of the history of this too is, you.

Know, with, with the collection side of it. Let's say I'm, I'm signed up and I'm in after the first, after the first year, normal. And I sold them a car last year and did their taxes and they were happy with it. And they come back to me this year and want to do, want me to do their tax preparation again and pay payments out of that. Can you set that up as well? Is that, is that something a lot of people do or not?

Yeah, that's actually excellent question. We have dealers who actually give them like a flyer and say, hey, if you may, if you put an extra thousand dollars in principal towards your vehicle, we'll give you free car wash and free oil changes. If you put $1,500 down towards principal, we may give you new tires or you know, so that they start giving incentives for the more money down, the more the, you know, if you put $2,500 down, maybe we'll rewrite your loan, lower your payments. You put $3,000 down towards principal, maybe we'll trade you up to a newer vehicle. So there's a lot of ways that our dealers are doing to capture their existing good paying customers who are not Delinquent and like Jeff said, that may want to trade up or make it. This program generates repeat business and generates cash.

I mean, is there a. I know we talked about this before, but you know, if I were, if I wanted to market this, I know that y' all have marketing. Is there a. Is there y' all have a good marketing for that? The customers who've already bought, no need to buy, but want to pay. Do you have some good marketing material or can you help dealers go down that path as well?

Yeah, we work one on one with every dealer and we say, you know, what are your goals and what do you want to achieve? And we will literally, and there's no charge to do this. We will work with the dealerships and we'll actually help them put the email campaigns together, texting campaigns, flyers, posters, we'll help them design everything and we'll make sure it's got the right message to achieve what their goal is. And we always tell them, look, lean on us. We've got 25 years of experience doing over a million, you know, in essence, really millions of car sales. So I know what works. We've got the 25 years of experience of what didn't work. So if you're a new tax max dealer, ask us, what should we be doing? Because I'll tell you, I know what not to do after doing this for so long. So it's excellent for, like I said, shrinking term with new car sales, getting bigger down payments, collecting on past due accounts, people who are current and just want to better their car situation, get money down for that, change their term, or just good financial sense say, look, I have a $12,000 refund and life's good for me right now. You know, some people it's not, and I'm not going to, you know, belittle that. But for some people, they got the stimulus, they are working, life's good, and they want to put some extra money towards the principal, then let's let them.

Yeah, I agree. Jeff, you got anything else?

No. That's one thing I would chime in on that is just that they do have a great marketing program. They've got all the materials on their website. Take any of their slogans and put your own branding on it and make it yours. And the beauty is they pick up on the first phone call. That is one thing that I can say about them is if we have a question and we call, they instantly pick up and you talk to somebody. I don't know if that's still the situation over There?

No, it is. We don't outsource. We have a call center, about 50, 50 people and it's all in house. It's not outsourced. And that is our goal. You must pick up on the first ring. If it goes to, honestly if it goes to the third ring, I may pick up the phone. So myself as the owner of the company as well as all my senior managers and senior staff, you know, this is what we do and this is all, this is only thing we do. So we're active, actively involved and I will answer the phone and help consumers and help dealers sell every car. Our goal is to help every dealer sell a car and we're in it. We don't get paid until the tax return money is actually sent to the dealer. So we are in the trenches with the customer, helping them get their refund and helping the dealer get that check and that's when we get paid. So if the dealership doesn't get their check, we don't get paid. So we're kind of in it together.

Awesome. Thanks Bill.

How do you get you.

Basically they can just call us or go to our website. You know, I don't want to be a commercial here, but they go to taxmax.com and they can schedule a demo. They can read all about the program. Like I said, we have collections programs, repair programs, taxis, all year round programs for retail dealers, finance companies. We now have a new collections product for a centralized finance company for delinquent accounts. So Buy here pay here solutions. So we've come a long way in the last. We've launched by four new products in the last 12 to 18 months.

Very good.

So one last thing. The new product we just released maybe about four weeks ago is our tax Max reminder program. So now Jeff, if you sell a car to a consumer using a deferred down, we have you work with the consumer and have the dealer or the consumer text a certain code word to a certain number. I don't want to put it out here. And then we will actually send them text reminders reminding them to go back to the dealership and make that special tax season payment. And it's a number that the customer opts into. So it's not like the dealership does it, it's a voluntary. And we also will text them reminders saying hey, it's December. Make sure if you've moved in the last several months, you contact your employers to change your address. So we give some tips to the consumers on how to be successful as well and make sure they get their tax documents and get their tax money. So the Tax Max Reminder program, that's no charge for that. That's part of the program. And that's something new that we do and once again, should help that success rate go from 90% to 95 to maybe 96 to 97%. So, always working hard for the dealers and for the taxpayers.

Very good.

Awesome. Thanks, Bill.

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