#154 - The Vehicle History Report w Kirsten Von Busch

Hello. Welcome to this episode of the Independent Dealer Podcast. First off, Luke, we want to thank everyone who has been listening to the podcast. The popularity has been growing. Our downloads get higher and higher, and every single week we want to thank you guys for our reviews on itunes and sharing this with your dealer friends. I mean, honestly, the exposure, the growth of the podcast has been just way beyond what we could have ever imagined. And today we have a very, very special guest with Experian. We're going to talk about vehicle history reports. And today we cover everything from selling cars, how history reports are going to help you sell more cars. We talk about why you need to be doing it. Luke and Kirsten actually convinced me that I should be pulling history reports here at my dealership. So if they can get me on board, they can get anyone who. Kirsten, introduce yourself to the podcast community and tell us a little bit about what you do.

Yeah. Thank you, Jeff. My name is Kirsten Von Busch and I'm the senior product manager at Experian. And specifically I support the auto check solution in the commercial markets.

Awesome. Thanks for being here, Kirsten.

Welcome to the Independent Dealer Podcast with hosts Luke Godwin and Jeff Watson. A podcast by dealers for dealers. Here we go. Autocheck is a vehicle history report solution. And simply put, we are aggregating the historical detail for a specific vin. So any information that we are able to provide regarding title registration, accidents, damage, auction announcements, perhaps open recalls, service and maintenance history, third party condition reports, putting all of that information in one single place. So a consumer as well as a dealer has the opportunity to see what the history is of a vehicle that they may be evaluating for trade or for purchase.

Dealers know what vehicle history reports are, you know, in general, because we've. It's kind of been thrust upon us in the last 20 years, and some dealers have accepted it and some dealers really don't like it. What can you say to the dealers that don't like it? What? Why is it important to. To the consumer? Why is it important to dealers to have this?

Yeah, well, as a whole, I mean, vehicle history reports can really help dealerships sell more cars, and that's ultimately what any dealership wants to do. Right? So how can vehicle history reports do that? Well, there's a number of ways that we can help achieve that, and I'll cover off on three of them today just as kind of high level overviews, but first of all, rebuilding a dealer's inventory. So 2020. Right. The phrases of the year were pandemic and unprecedented, but the Industry certainly has experienced inventory shortages. And I mean, that's across the board, right? I don't think anybody disagrees with that, both from a new and a pre owned vehicle perspective. I mean, I've been in the auto industry for over 20 years and seen the auction houses closed right where I mean, doors were actually physically closed. And we went to a completely virtual environment. Absolutely unprecedented. But now that we're seeing auction houses reopening, we're beginning to see the used vehicle inventory rebound, which is fantastic. Of course, the auction is a fantastic resource for the dealers to boost their inventory. And I mean, just to give you an idea, some numbers and perspective on that. So we experian, we produce an automotive market Insights dashboard. And one of the things we measure on that is auction activity. So just as a comparison, for the week of December 14th, there were nearly 150,000 units at auction. Now that's in comparison to the week of March 30, 2020, and. And there were less than 50,000 units. So I mean, that inventory just was so constricted. So we're seeing that opening back up. So as dealers are at the auction and as they're working to rebuild their inventory, it's so important they have a plan and they're vigilant about choosing the vehicles that are right for their market mix and their organization. And VHRS can help dealers manage that. So knowing the history of the vehicle allows them to make an informed decision. So they can make sure that they have the appropriate inventory available for their market. And they're also managing their risk tolerance for the vehicles that they're taking in.

I think that's very key. I've been buying virtually for years now, and it's amazing how much we rely on, when we're purchasing virtually, how much we rely on the history report. I don't necessarily use auto check, but the other day I was trying to buy cars and one of your competitors went down for about an hour. First time I'd ever seen this happen. I couldn't buy cars. I was like, oh my gosh, what happened? And so it's just really funny how it's changed our industry.

Yeah, Luke, let me jump in there. I want to ask that question of you. I know, Luke, that you're a history report guy, right? Every car you sell, I see it on your website, you sell the history report with it. I, on the other hand, don't. I never have. I'm like, you know, we have a little lower price point than you do as well. But maybe Luke and I mean, you guys can kind of tell me, like, where am I missing the boat in not giving out or having that provided a history report? Because I would say, like, hey, you know, is that carbon in a wreck? I'm like, yep, yep, probably, like, most likely, like, so maybe it's as I am I ashamed of. Like, if I had a history report on every single one of these cars, I'd be like, oh, my goodness, that thing was like at the bottom of a lake once. And that thing, like, had 15 accidents and 23 owners. Like, am I just trying to, like, hide from that or, you know, where am I missing the boat, Luke? Because I love the fact that you're not bidding on things with three accidents because that means I can get them. So I want you to use the history report, but I don't want to use it.

And Kirsten may speak to this, but to me, it is a. It's a price point thing, I think. And the higher you go, the more the customer wants to know about the history report. But some customers could care less. So you can. Sometimes you can buy a cheaper unit with a couple of accidents for value buyers, because there are a lot of people out there searching for a good value. But I think it's just a sales tool. And I think either you got to go all in or you got to be all out. I don't think there's a middle ground where you could say, I'm going to provide some vehicle history reports, I'm not going to others. So, Kirsten, is that something dealers should focus on? Either you're in or you're out? Is that a type of situation you need to be in?

Well, I mean, certainly I would always recommend that you're in, and I would recommend that you're in for twofold reason. First for yourself, you know, minimizing your financial impact and exposure. So just as a whole, I mean, four vehicles in operation, based on the Experian research that we've done, about four out of 10 vehicles that are on the road, cars and light duty trucks have been in an accident. And that's just a single event. More than 20% of those have been in multiple accidents. So, you know, four out of 10, 20% have been in multiple. Those are just overall percentages. But when you actually start looking at the numbers, so I'll give you a specific here. For quarter three of 2020, there were 281.6 million vehicles on the road. So just for easy Math, let's say 280 million vehicles in operation. Well, if 400. If four out of 10, excuse me, of those have been in an accident, that's 112 million vehicles that have been in an accident. And I mean we talk about financial impact, but even if a vehicle has been completely repaired, just the fact alone that it was in an accident indicates then it has diminished value. So that vehicle is going to have a lower value point. So knowing that history, I mean, and overall, you know, we sometimes reference Mitchell's number, but I mean I think it's a fantastic number. And in 2019, their quarter two average diminished value record was $3,151. That's for a single event. So I mean the risk exposure for the vehicles in operation on the road, I mean $330 billion. Right. So having that vehicle history and using it yourself just helps you make good financial investments. Right. What is the history of that? What is the potential diminished value? Where can you position it for your market? At what price point?

Yeah, you know what that makes me think about is maybe I don't, you know, if I'm trade ins, like if I'm taking a trade in from a customer, I typically, I mean I don't pull a history. Like I said, I don't have access to history reports. Cause I'm not pulling them on the trade in. And I am missing out on a lot of negotiation power to go in there and say hey yeah, I know you want ten grand for this thing, but check this out. Like did you know, you know what's funny?

Yeah. You talk about the trade in and I find extensive value and evaluating trade ins that way. And because you know, when you sell a car that's cheaper, let's say your, let's say your price point is under 10 grand, you know, your normal selling retail price where your trade in is going to be fairly low, low end. And what I find in a lot of cases that we're evaluating trades, their total losses, they've got significant damage history. And so it takes that the value of that car maybe, let's say that, let's say the highest value of that car at any point before you look at the vehicle history report was let's say 1000 to 1500 dollars. Well if I see it's a total loss or if I say it's got major damage history or whatever, that car is literally worth nothing in my opinion. So it's a thousand dollar swing right there a lot of times. So I think evaluating trades is huge. Is there, Kirsten, is there another way? I'm sorry, go ahead, go ahead.

No, that's okay.

To expand on that mitigating risk, is that where we, is that as dealers, how we mitigate risk using the, using the history report, Is that where that comes into play?

Yeah, absolutely. Mitigating the risk for yourself, I mean, and also providing that transparency to the consumer, allowing you to build loyalty and trust with them. Of here is what the history is for the vehicle. Now that's on the sales side. But just to expand on the conversation about trade ins. Using a vehicle history report in that, that trade in process and conversation is absolutely recommended so valuable there because just as you said, what has happened with that vehicle and knowing that allows you to better position and negotiate of taking it in on trade, what are you going to offer for it? Are you going to retail it? Maybe, you know, immediately you'll wholesale it because there's a lot of information on the vehicle history report. But one thing we specifically done in auto check is we've created a patented auto check score. So the auto check score is a simple single numeric value and it provides the likelihood that that vehicle, that specific vin, will be on the road in five years. But most importantly, it compares it to similar vehicles of age and class. So you get a score for the vehicle, but you get a range that you're comparing it to. So, Jeff, in your scenario of taking it in on a trade, I can immediately see that this vehicle is scored at a 76. Okay, cool, that's helpful. But more importantly, I see similar vehicles have scored between a 72 and an 84. I know it's right within the range, or maybe it's below the range. And then I can even have that conversation with the consumer of, you know what, I'd like to give you more, but I really can't. I mean, this is scoring lower than similar vehicles. I'm taking this in on a trade and of course you're going to sell it. So it just supports that conversation and building the. That trust and transparency with the consumer as well.

I'm glad, Kirsten, I'm glad you brought up that scoring mechanism because that's a lot of, I think in the dealer community there's a lot of, let's say, hocus pocus around that. And so can you walk us back through that, the scoring scale? Because I don't think as dealers, we really know how that thing works.

I would love to, and I mean, the score is very near and dear to my heart. I mean, we could have an entire podcast conversation just around that, but at a high level. So experian we created a model so based upon the vehicle data, kind of in concept, it's similar to a credit score. So it summarizes the auto check data into an easy to understand score and it provides the score range as well. The range is on a scale of 1 to 100. So simple and easy to understand. But the score predicts the likelihood that the car will be on the road in five years. So as you said, Luke, there's been some confusion in the market about what this score is and what does it mean and how do I use it and how do I explain it to someone else. And we've taken strides over the last few years to really eliminate that confusion. So about two years ago we redesigned the report as a whole and when we did that, we reintroduced the score with an automotive center gauge layout. So it now provides a visual in a simple gauge that, you know, everyone in the automotive industry can immediately and easily quickly understand. Where does this vehicle score? Below the range, within the range or above the range. And we've also enhanced the text to really take out some of that more elaborate, I'm going to say data language and just make it really simple and easy to understand where the score is. The likelihood the car will be on the road in five years. The range compares it to similar vehicles of age and class. It's that easy.

And the factors it takes in, factors like accidents, owners, like, I guess that would be the thing. You could go to the customer and say, hey Mr. Customer, I know you've got this thing, but you've got the redheaded stepchild of all Dodge Chargers. Like this thing has had 10 owners and it's been to 50 different states. Like why, you know, mileage events.

Absolutely. All of that goes into the model.

So is a, so I'm just going to use simple statistics here. So if, if, if the car somehow scores 100, that means it's pretty much 100% likely it'll be on the road in five years. Is that where we're going? And if it's, it scores a 50, that's a 50% chance to be on the road in five years. Is that, is that where this gory model works?

No, I mean I certainly would see vehicles scoring in the 90s, but I'm in a pre owned space. I'm not going to see more than likely 100. That's definitely a unicorn. But yes, let's say 90, a 90% likelihood of being on the road in five years. So more than likely it is a pre owned vehicle. That's a couple Years old. Right. Lower mileage, Not a lot of events. And by events, I mean auction announcements, damage, accidents, title brands, et cetera. All of that goes into the detail. And it perhaps has fewer than the expected number of owners, because over time, of course, we expect that a vehicle is going to have more than one owner, but how many owners does it have in comparison to the expected number of owners? What is the mileage in comparison to the expected mileage? So taking things like that into comparison. But Luke, as you said, if it scores a 50, it's a 50, 50 chance of that vehicle being on the road in five years.

That's very interesting. I did not know that's how that. That score. I've seen the score a million times and didn't know what it meant.

So that's like the credit score for cars.

Yes, yes, yes.

So, I mean, could you have not done this with, like, when I was single? If you could have done that with all the females in my dating pool, it would have been. What is the likelihood that this. Okay, so my wife doesn't listen to this, so that's fine. Thank God.

So if the. I would assume certain cars are more likely to be in accidents than others. So all of that data is aggregated. Is that what we see?

So we aggregate that. And I mean, we have done a lot of research and analysis on this, and we're constantly updating the model. And one thing is with the breadth and depth of data that we experience have, we are able to validate the model. So based upon that vehicle of vehicles in operation data that we have, we can see like, yes, it actually was still on the road five years from now. So the model is patented, I mean, proprietary to us. It has been proven over the years to be accurate.

That would be interesting, Luke, to know which cars people hold onto. Wouldn't you love to see the backside of that? To be like, hey, these specific year make models do not change hands often. So when you get them, you know, you can sell them. Especially with my buy here, pay here situation. I know this isn't, you know, so I'm about to.

I'm about to ask a question. We might get bleeped out here. Okay, so if you know this data, if Experian knows this data, which I think is a very, very interesting data point, do lenders use that number when it comes to financing certain cars for certain individuals? Do they use the auto check number? Because I know that lenders have direct, you know, relationships with Experian. Is that. Does that.

Does that come into play it does, absolutely. So lenders use auto check data, whether it's individual elements of data within their loan origination systems for decisioning, you know, not necessarily for the consumer. Right. But looking at the vehicle and is this a vehicle that they would like to finance or not? Right. And then also the score is an element that absolutely lenders can use. The score and the range go hand in hand. And we actually did a case study with a lender that we released this fall and we analyzed the results of 3 years and 7 million loan applications and how things played out from a prime subprime franchise independent, you know, make, model, class, all of those perspectives. And we even took it a step further to look at then repossessions and vehicle drivability and how the score and autocheck data influenced all of that.

Hmm, that is so makes me think like, why do. Why is that not a product? Why can't I get that like, I know we have like zoom, right? Zoom scores or what is that what it's called, Luke, that underwriting model?

Auto zoom.

Yeah, yeah, Auto zoom. So like if I could have an Experian product that's like, hey, I'm going to punch in my customer and I'm going to punch in the car and they're going to give me the likelihood that this car, this customer with this credit score and this car with this score is going to.

Actually I bet Experian has something like.

That, a good loan to do. Like tell me the likelihood this customer will still be driving in pain in two years, three years, five years. Well, you know what's interesting to me.

Carson, is that you're using a five year likelihood because as we see. I mean, I think I read somewhere that 84 months was almost a standard when it came to new car financing at the moment. And used car financing I think is around the 60 month range. So which hits the that five year mark. And I know there's a lot, there's a lot of people out there financing used cars. 84 months. Is five months where we're staying or do you see? Because I think cars in general last longer. You think it would ever move to a little longer time frame that that scoring model?

And I certainly wouldn't rule it out. Right. I mean we're constantly evaluating the model and constantly updating it based upon data additions that we have based upon the changing environment. So we're always looking to make sure that the model is relevant and accurate for the market. So as vehicles reliability improves as well as ownership times. It's certainly Something we would consider looking at. I mean, 5 is kind of a nice, easy math number. Right. Where, you know, when you talk about like, six or six and a half or seven, it just adds a little layer of complexity. But absolutely, we're always open to evaluating the model and how we calculate it.

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Back to the podcast. So, Kirsten, tell me this. Are there any states that require a history report? Like, is that a thing? Is that, like, a way this industry is maybe going like, hey, let's just make this standard. And as a dealer, maybe that's a smart thing. Like, hey, I'm completely transparent. And here's everything I know about, like, I didn't build this car, I'm not Toyota, but here's what I know about it.

Well, I can give you one specific example, Jeff, and the state of California does require a Nimvitas vehicle history report for any vehicle that is retail lease sold. Now, with that being said, Experian, we also are a Nimvitas reseller, but we would certainly always recommend that a dealer use the auto check report in conjunction with that because while it provides great information, it's not going to have all the data that auto check may have. So for example, damage information, auction announcements, accident insights. You're going to get that with AutoCheck.

I got a question. I think that's, that's interesting. I think we will see that more in the future. You keep saying auction announcements and I, we find that sometimes. And dealers, I think this goes across the board. Dealers find sometimes that the auction announcements are made by people who don't seem to be fully qualified to call some things they call on cars. What does experion do to try to prevent bad data being reported from auctions or from anywhere, I guess.

Mm. Well, I mean just overall, from anywhere, we go through hundreds of checks for data quality as we add it to the report. If anyone does have a data item to be disputed, of course we would review those disputes as well based upon what the dispute is. You know, we may require specific documentation and detail to make an edit to a vehicle history report, but absolutely, that's something that we handle and we address.

Is there.

But specific.

I'm sorry, go ahead. I was. Well, is there a way to. I guess what's the process of a dealer wants to, let's say, dispute that auction has called frame damage or something like that. Is there a way for a dealer to go out and, and get this disputed and get it changed if that was the case?

Yeah. So. So let's talk about auctions just specifically so autocheck. One of the advantages is the auction announced information. So we have 95% of US auction houses reporting information to us on our report, majority of them providing exclusive structural damage detail. Now for that damage to be reported, it does have to follow the NAA guidelines, rules, regulations. So there are standards in place for, you know, what can be reported and how. And what we've done is we also have taken broken information out into a more granular level of detail. So you know, is there a structural change or is there structural damage? So we want to really make sure that we are accurately reflecting the detail that is reported to us. And you know, that may be something that if you haven't had the opportunity to review Autocheck recently, you haven't had the chance to see. But we want to make sure we are providing all of the detail that's provided to us.

Sure. So but is there a way to if, if we feel that auction has incorrectly labeled something, is there a way for us to challenge that auctions label of that through Experian, through Autocheck?

Yeah. So we would more than likely refer back to the auction at that. I can, I have to double check the exact documentation that we would require. But that's something our client services team would handle and provide appropriate details.

You can't essentially challenge it or say, hey, this isn't accurate. You know, it's funny, Luke, I found out that my shop, I use Omnique software, they report what I do to the vehicle history reports. So like we, I don't ever pull history reports. Except for the other day we sold a higher end car and we pulled it up and right there it's like Four Seasons Auto oil change. This like the most absurd stuff that we like. Oh my goodness. We need to be careful what we're saying in these, in our, in our software because it's showing up on history reports. I could say like you know, jokingly found a cat inside the alternator and it would like show up now that car is labeled as a cat house.

Does auto check provide that? Are they linked with software, server software for that?

Kirsten, we do have a number of data providers and in fact we recently required a large volume of historical service and repair activity from independent repair shops. So just in January we added over 330 million historical service and mileage records.

I think that data is so important, especially when it comes to that five year score, that the data from repair facilities or maintenance facilities should be, should be key to that data, don't you think?

I think as we capture more and more of it and as consumers demand more and more of it, then you will see that continue to evolve and be incorporated into the model.

Yeah, my argument. And what about the missing, like sometimes when I have a customer come in and they're like, whoa, you know, has it been in an accident? I'm like, yeah, it probably has. What the history report is showing you is where the car was repaired. It was in an accident, it hit a pole and it went to a reputable repair shop. What about the times where the guy hits the pole and then takes it to his buddy who slaps on an aftermarket bumper and rattle cans it? I'm like, that guy's not gonna be on there. So like.

Exactly. And I mean, that's where no vehicle history report is going to have all of the information. I mean, in that exact same scenario you just provided, there are unreported accidents. So we always recommend consumers and dealers have a vehicle inspected by a licensed mechanic. Of course, we can only report on what is reported.

That's what's so hard is the customer thinks that like, this is the Bible, this is the end all, be all of this car. And you're like, no, this is what I know and this is the most transparent thing I can give you. But it doesn't mean that there might not be something, you know, if the accident isn't reported. Right.

Now that's where a lot of the data sources though, because we are aggregating this information from so many different sources. Where let's say it did go to a body shop or if it was labeled a total loss by insurance or it went to auction and then they noted the frame damage, there's opportunity for it to be reported later. But if I took it to my brother and he repaired it in his garage with spare parts he had, then that's where again, we would always recommend the vehicle be inspected by a licensed mechanic.

Kirsten, I know that in the forums there's always a debate between which vehicle history report you should use and I don't think that AutoCheck has the national public notoriety as maybe a competitor in the marketplace. How do you recommend dealers overcoming objections to someone asking for a certain type of vehicle history report? And you being a user of AutoCheck.

Mm, yeah. And. Well, certainly, Luke, I can't comment on what the competition has or doesn't have, but I can tell you about Auto Check. Right? And we are proud of the Auto Check report and we believe it has fantastic data and we recommend dealers lead with it. So as someone comes in and if they ask for it, are they asking for a brand specific item or are they looking for a vehicle history report? And AutoCheck has tens of thousands of unique accident sources. We have 95% of U.S. auction houses reporting to us based upon vehicles in operation. We have 99.82% coverage for open recalls. And we talked about the score at length, but that's a great score summary, both for a consumer and a dealer. To understand all of that history in one simple value for the dealer or the consumer. So lead with the auto check report. You know, provide that to them and say, hey, we use auto check. Here's the vehicle history report for the vehicle you're interested in.

Leading with the Experian name is like. It's like, everybody knows that, especially in my region, that's the standard for credit scores. And so making that connection of like, hey, you know, you trust them with your credit score. Here's your car score.

It does. And you may have noticed on our report that over the last few years, you see more of that Experian brand reflected where the Experian logo is right on the report. The color, the tone, the overall packaging of the report is reflective of that Experian message. And there's more and more experience Experian advertising in the marketplace. So dealers are certainly familiar with Experian from a credit standpoint, but consumers are more and more familiar with Experian as well. So as you said, that brand recognition of Experian adds to the overall experience as well.

I think that's key. When you, when you were talking earlier about redesigning your report, I remember years ago, your report looked like a credit report. It was. It was white paper. And, you know, I mean, you know, it was just so simple. And it, you know, when y' all did make the jump to the new style, I think it did create a better, better look and feel for dealers when presented to customers. So I think that's.

And they did the same with the credit score, right? I mean, even the credit score, I think, has the little dial now as well. Those are both similar. So one more silly question for you before we wrap this up now. If. If you guys can do this for vehicle history reports and, you know, 99.2% of all vehicles out there and all this stuff, why can't you guys do that for titling? Why can't we just put Experian in charge of all vehicle titling and go all digital? You guys have every vin, you have every owner, you have every transaction. Just attach the title to the darn history report and let's stop all this paper titling and cross state nonsense and take that, I don't know, run that up the flagpole.

I agree. That's.

Kirsten, if you guys don't just own that, don't call Biden. I don't know who's in charge of.

This stuff, but turn it on over to us. Sure.

It just blows my mind. Like, you guys can track every Oil change on every 280 million cars out there and every time they've run over a cat. But somehow we cannot get on the same page when it comes to transferring a paper title from one human to another human.

You've got a. You got a. Mail it here, mail it there, mail it there. It gets lost in the mail.

Oh, my gosh. And all of them look different and act different and just. It's crazy. Anyways, how do we get a hold? Do we get a hold of you? If any dealers out there want to get on the product and want to add it and start pulling their auto checks, is it just best to call in through the 800 number, go to the website?

Yeah, both are viable options. I mean, feel free to stop by. Right. I'm working from home these days. I would appreciate the company. I mean, maybe they can bring me something warm to drink. I am in the Midwest and it is freezing, so come on over. I'm happy to chat, but. Yeah, absolutely. We would love to have the opportunity to talk to any dealer about Auto check and specifically in the independent space. So we have a channel relationship with Now Comm. And they are our exclusive reseller for independent dealers. But franchise dealers, independent dealers, we love to work with all of them. And most simply, someone can go on our website, fill out a contact us form, and we'll get them routed to the appropriate salesperson that can call us as well. So. And if anyone listening is going to be participating in the Virtual Nada conference, we will have a virtual booth and we'd love to chat with you there, too.

Very interesting. I got an email like 5 minutes ago from NADA show. That was an experian.

Oh, did you?

Yeah, like, while we were doing this. So it's kind of funny.

We timed that, Luke. It was.

Yeah, I was like, what?

They know everything about you, Luke.

That's right. Well, thanks for being here.

Thank you for your time.

Thank you. I appreciate it. So glad you joined us. Please take a minute to leave us a review and share this podcast with a friend, the independent dealer. Podcast Dealers Helping Dealers.