#173 - Creating Your "Preferred Experience" w Michael Cirillo

Welcome to the Independent Dealer Podcast brought to you by Buckeye, dealer Consultant. Today we have an amazing guest, an amazing podcast, Michael Cirillo of the Dealer Playbook podcast.

Michael's a huge, huge advocate of the used car industry. New car, I mean, his consulting, everything. So this episode was awesome, guys. We get introduced to a term called preferred experience. I'm going to write that on my wall. Michael talks about the preferred experiences, dealers. What is our preferred experience? We have the ability to drive that in our dealership. Our culture, leadership in the dealership. He just covers so many great topics in this podcast, so hope you guys enjoy. Here we go.

Welcome to the Independent Dealer Podcast with hosts Luke Godwin and Jeff Watson. A podcast by dealers for dealers. Here we go.

When you. When you have, like, you have a large platform in the dealer Playbook, what is the agenda there? Like you said, you've got so many dealer. So many auto professionals in there, from dealer principals to salesmen to porters to. You cover such a large scope with your podcast. And I have noticed lately it's not about car dealers anymore. Like, you have so many great episodes about mindset and culture. Like, you're going into a general business and mental health type topics. You know that that's obviously by design, right?

Yeah, 100%.

It's not just your board with like, hey, we're going to put stickers that are blue instead of red and where are you going buying your cars from? And Luke and I have that problem all the time. It's like, let's talk about how hard it is to buy inventory one more time. Like, yeah, you're like, okay, I've done that for the first 700 episodes. Let's get into some more substantial stuff. If you want to know about color coding your employees, go. Go back to episode two.

But yeah, yeah. And look at the challenges that consistently come up or the frustrations that come up. They really have nothing to do with the industry. For example, I had a phone call with a client of mine, a dealer principal has two different stores, and he said, I see so much potential in this individual on my sales team. But for some reason, they're not wrapping their head around it. Well, what does that. So let's just say that guy's selling an average of 12 cars. How is helping him get to 20 cars going to solve what is clearly a mindset and a heart issue?

It might change his life. You know, that's. Some of us don't remember that.

Yeah, exactly. And so I'm. I. You're right. And what I will also say Jeff is. I'm a marketer, but I'm not a great marketer for myself. I tend to downplay, like, everything that I do. And so I say that to preface that the agenda, to answer your question of the Dealer Playbook podcast has always been and will continue to be exactly what I say at the beginning of every episode. Right. I don't read that. It is just part of, you know, like, I'll show you right now.

Ready?

You guys ready for this? Yeah. Right.

You know, did you make this track?

I know we. We licensed it.

Okay, ready?

But here it is. Hey. Hey. Welcome to this episode of the Dealer Playbook podcast. I'm your host, Michael Cirillo. We talk about creating a thriving career right here in the auto industry. Today. I'm talking to my pals Jeff and Luke, all about leadership, mental health, what we're going to do to change the car business for good. Here we go. Right? Like, it's recorded live every episode. But that's the agenda. We explore what it takes to create a thriving career right here in the retail auto industry. So why do we talk about leadership and culture and. And maybe there's a car sales episode mixed in and a marketing and a social media. And why do I want to talk to car sales professional? I want to talk to everybody in this business and hopefully rally us all around a campfire where we can have an open conversation about. Okay, but when the dealership closes and you go home for the evening, whether you're married or not, living alone or not, can you look at yourself in the mirror and say, yes, this is my preferred experience in life? Because, like, one thing that really hits me deep is none of us get to choose time. Time just happens and we don't know how much of it we have. What we do get to choose and what we do get to create is our preferred experience inside of that time. And so I think about Joe Whoever in Dog Lick, Nebraska, sitting at his workstation going, I frickin hate this. How do we shift? What can we do to perhaps inspire and shift his mindset, get him excited or her excited about something that they can do to see the bigger picture and perhaps, maybe even map what they're doing that maybe they will continue to hate. But if we could just help them map it to a bigger goal and see how it's a stepping stone, the game changes.

Michael, that was, you know, my first question to you was gonna be, what is leadership? How do you define it? We talk about it a lot. What is it?

Yeah, well, you know, there's a lot of fancy and fluffy terminology that we could use. For me, I tend to rely on a word that I think goes a little bit further than just this. Leadership. Right. We've all seen the memes where we're like, oh, it's a picture of what is it like bosses. It's like boss versus leader and the boss is like cracking a whip and there's a bunch of like slaves in front of him and he's, you know, and then it shows the leader side and it's him in the front pulling most of the weight. That's fancy. Is there merit to it? I think so, but I think it goes a little bit deeper than that. And you can't depict what I believe leadership is in a two dimensional image which comes back to the word stewardship. To be a steward for someone or something means that I accept responsibility for the well being of whatever it is I've been given responsibility for. Whether that's a human being, a building, you know, grounds, whether I'm a, you know, if I'm a groundskeeper, let's say I am the leader of those grounds, but I am a steward. I have a responsibility to maintain and, or help flourish the property in business. I don't, I don't see it as, oh, I go sit in my office and I'm the visionary and you follow my vision. For me, it's about demonstrating a way of life that they can incorporate to perhaps enhance the way that they live. Does that mean I'm perfect? No, far from it. Like extremely far from it. But it means that in the back of my mind, I am constantly thinking about how to demonstrate behaviors and patterns that have worked for me to help my team do the same thing. It means that there is a whole layer of tenderness and care that is required, patience required, to let them also learn lessons that need to be learned on their timeline.

That's really. I'm sorry to interrupt you, but.

No, that's great.

I really understand that it's about a stewardship of whatever you're over. And I think sometimes as dealers or as employees or whatever that we, we forget that the first people we should lead is ourselves. How big of a problem do you see that just in, in general with people and how can we get better at stewarding the body that we have here?

Yeah, I love that you brought that up. It's something I agree with wholeheartedly. How can I? You see, everybody and social media, by the way, has perpetuated this. I often joke that the Internet has transfigured, transformed us to an alternate reality where stupidity is the norm. Because, oh, man, he's got so many followers. If I don't get followers, then I'm not worth it, dude. Everybody wants more followers, but haven't figured out how to lead themselves. What exactly do you want them to follow? Somebody who doesn't keep their word. Somebody with no integrity. Somebody like. And this is, you know, very much me speaking to myself. How I would look inward and say, do is my word, my bond. Have I developed patterns that I can maintain consistently? There's a lot of simple things, like think of the morning routine, you know, or whatever your waking routine is. Maybe I won't call it a morning routine. You might be a night shift worker, and your morning routine actually happens at midnight, you know, sort of a thing. Or, you know, 11 in the morning or whatever. But what. I guess where I'm going with this is that I believe that your behavior gives us a lens to what you actually value. Sure. Is that, you know, you guys can probably tell I'm no chomsky here. Like, you know, I'm thinking through these. These kind of words because I'm really trying to, you know, I guess, just be authentic to what I believe. But I just think, you know, so many people this day and age are falling in love with individuals who have impressive words, yet their behavior contradicts all of those. And I just think, you know, I had this conversation with my son, who. I don't. I don't know why kids do this. They. They know. They know. Their parents know when they're lying, but they still, for some reason, choose to go. Go down the lying path.

Right.

So I had this conversation with my son, and I said, look, buddy, I'm just gonna be straight with you. You're not a good liar. And I said, because, buddy, your. Your lips say the words, but your behavior tells me the truth. And he's like, what? And I'm like, your lips are telling me stuff, but the way you act, the way your face looks, the way you behave, that's what's actually telling me the truth. And so it's the same thing. Everybody wants to. Everybody wants followers, yet they haven't figured out how to consistently lead themselves. Are you consistent at anything? Is coming into the office and cracking a whip on your team and being the proverbial boss, the only thing you're consistent at? When's the last time you sat down with the members of your team and said, I care about you. I'm here to support You. How can I help you? Better. Better. Where am I missing the mark?

Yeah, I think that leads it. Go ahead, Jeff.

Well, as I was saying, do you think that the hypocrisy in dealers, you know, as the dealer owner, do you think the hypocrisy is the underlying or one of probably the underlying flaws in a dealership's culture? Because we all talk about that and of course I say it all the time here in my dealership. I'm like, guys, we spend more time with each other than we do our own families. You know, I want to be with people I like to work with. I want you to enjoy it here. If you don't come talk to me, I'm either going to find you a new position or I'll send you a great letter of reference to another company and we'll find you somewhere where you're happy. Is it dealers that get up there and preach that whole thing and say it and say it and say it, but then when it really comes down to it, they're the ones not coming in with a bad attitude or not willing to lend a hand or not willing to do the things that they need to be doing. I mean, is it the disconnect from the dealer that creates that culture in the dealership?

I think so. I think that has something to do with it. And a perfect scenario is this. So you say that to your team member and maybe they don't have the courage to talk to you right then and there. Maybe this was like, whoa, you know, they have to go home and process. They're like, whoa, you know, my leader just sat me down and said, like, I'm concerned about your happiness. And I didn't know what to say in the moment. I was taken off guard. So they go home and they process it. But here's what happens. They gain up the courage and they come back to the store saying, I am going to talk to Jeff tomorrow and I'm going to. Yeah, yeah. Where's Jeff? Oh, he's golfing. Where's Jeff? Oh, no, he's at his house in the Palm Desert. Where's Jeff? Oh, he's flying his airplane to wherever. The problem is the whole back end scenario here where you said the words, but then you as the leader behaved in a way, you didn't create any space, but you go and pat yourself on the back, you go home to your wife or your husband, you say, say it was a good day. I let the team know.

Yeah, but you don't actually have an open line of Communication with them.

Exactly.

Is that the biggest void of leadership in dealerships that disconnect from your porter to the principal or from your salespeople to the principal?

I think we get so caught up in corporate structure that we think we are doing a service to our people. So the porter reports to who? And then they report to who? And we go, oh, great. Well, we've got leaders, we have senior leaders, we have mid level leaders, we have, you know, team leaders. We've done a good job. We've set up a structure by which things can function and flow. But the reality of it is this. Your team leader, you can have the best relationship with your team leader. And maybe they're the only reason you're coming to work every day because they've just formed a bond. But something magical happens when the person who is steering the ship acknowledges you, lets you know that they see you, that you matter to them. I make a habit and I'm not perfect at it, by the way. I don't want anybody thinking I'm jumping on a soapbox here. But to give you a glimpse inside of our organization, I mean, my team members are all remote. I have team members in Utah, in Toronto, you know, all scattered throughout Toronto. Toronto is a really big city, you know, like 11 million people, and they're all scattered about. And we've got people here in Alberta. I do my best to make sure that every Friday, in addition to constantly being in the communication with the team, I make sure that every Friday before we shut down operations, that I say something to the effect of thank you for all of your contributions this week. I see them, they're recognized, and I'm grateful.

So many of us forget to do that. Is it, is that part of the culture we should be building? Is that what distinguishes the culture of 20 years ago in the car industry to, to what people expect today?

Yes. We also have a different generation coming up and I think the older that we get. Let's just speak in the context of the three of us. Every year we get older, we become more out of touch with this new generation coming up. Sure. So they're just like, they've just. What is it scientifically? I think your frontal lobe is fully developed after 25. I think that's when your frontal lobe is fully developed. So, you know, like when your kids, you ask them like, why'd you do that? And they go, I don't know. It's because they actually literally don't know. There is just a void. I don't know. Well, think about that, that part of your brain that controls that whole element hasn't fully developed till you're 25. So we have this younger generation coming up who are just being exposed to the issues of the world, issues that have always existed but now they seem so heightened because this new millions and millions of this new generation are coming forward, just realizing that racism is a thing or that diversity and inclusion is a thing, or like whatever it is. And the more out of touch we become with them, it can become really difficult for us to get on their side unless we proactively let them know that it matters to us as well, that we are on their side, that we are here to create an experience, to facilitate an experience that they can grow to whatever their goals, dreams and aspirations are. Now let me back up because when I started our company, I was the boss. I was raised by an Italian immigrant entrepreneur who at one point, you know, my father, at one point, he had 100 employees. He had a beautiful office building in Vancouver. I remember running through it as a kid. It was just awesome. It was so cool. However, my father, who, and this is not a knock at him, he was just doing the best that he could with what he knew at the time, he was still doing everybody's jobs because he never proactively trusted people on the front end. And so then he always got burned on the back end. And that just created a distaste like, no, okay, if this thing's going to work, it has to be me, me, me, me, me. I am the reason the business succeeds. Well, a lot of that fixed belief was kind of, I would see it. He didn't physically, you know, sit me down and say, now, son, don't trust anybody. He never did anything like that. But I saw the way he ran things. So when I started the company, attrition was high. I couldn't keep people. I couldn't understand why people couldn't just flip flipping, do the job right. It took a lot of self reflection for me to change the way that I think the KPI for me today, which is heartwarming for me, is the fact that the team that I have here now frequently say things like, I'm here for life, I'm a lifer. I would lay down on train tracks for you. What? And the reason I think they feel that way is because they know first and foremost I feel that way. Like if we're charging into battle and the arrows are flying, I'm the first one taking an arrow kind of a thing.

You know, Michael, I had that question and Statement, I guess, was most dealer principles are like what your dad was, you know, the genius with a thousand helpers, and we know that doesn't work. You talked about a little bit of a way to improve it. What's the best way? How do we train our staff properly and to get ahead of what we are?

I think first and foremost, we need to step back from the grind that we constantly put ourselves in and take the time needed to pause. This is really hard for a business owner to do because, look, even today, I feel like there are elements of the business that if I am not present, things might explode. I still struggle with that. Right. Crap. I can't take the day off today. The minute I leave my desk, Murphy's Law kicks in and things are going to erupt. I still struggle with that mindset to a degree. However, we need to take time. I don't care. And honestly, like, let's get real. I don't care if the only time you got is sitting on the john. Bring your. Bring a notepad in there with you and. And reflect on what is my preferred experience. I come back to prefer what is my preferred experience with what I'm doing here and from there. How does that map to helping? I use the word facilitate because I can't create it for them. People still have responsibility for themselves. But how can I facilitate a preferred experience for my people? Now, here's where it gets real, Luke. Perhaps, like, being truly honest with yourself is a tough thing. Yeah. Have you ever done, like, a personality assessment where you answer the questions, you catch yourself answering the questions the way you think.

Scared of it.

You want to be perceived lying to.

Yourself on a personality test. Yeah.

It's weird, right? Getting honest with yourself is really difficult. But I would submit this for the dealer owner or the general manager, whoever's listening, if what they actually believe is a preferred experience is that I created this company so that I could enjoy a lifestyle that includes. And they list out those things. Playing golf on Friday, or here's one that nobody's ever willing to admit. I got into this for the real estate. You gotta be honest with yourself. It's no more painful for a dealer than it was for me running an agency. I had to get honest. Like, what am I actually here trying to do? Because then that set me down a path of a choose your own adventure novel, essentially, that has allowed me to live my preferred experience. Here's an example. My preferred experience is that I will never, ever, ever sign a deal to do business in a strip club. What does that mean. What does that mean for agents? Flex for flex as an agency? It means I may never, ever get into an OEM program. I'm not sure anybody if strip club is a year deal.

I didn't know that.

I'm not going out to preferred experience. I am not a partier. I will not go out to party while at Nada. You know where Cirillo's at at Nada? Back at his in law's house because they live down the street. Or he's in his hotel room facetiming his wife and kids. I've made a choice, and I have to now own. What is the pattern that. That. What's the ripple effect of that choice? That ripple effect means that I likely won't meet the reps for the companies that I need to meet in order to get into one of those programs. Well, what does that mean if I don't get into one of those programs? Well, it means my business model has to shift. Well, how does my business. And then I map those things out. You see how one choice of a preferred experience creates a compounding ripple effect of choices. Most people go through life looking back and saying, well. Well, hindsight's 20 20. Screw that. We have the ability to create some foresight and map it. So what does the leader need to do? They need to get honest with themselves. What? Why am I doing this? Wait. I don't even really want to be a dealer. I just took over for mom and dad. Okay, well, be honest with yourself, and let's figure something out. Well, I don't know what I would do. Figure it out, but you got to be on. That's where it starts, guys. It starts with getting clear on, what do you want? Why are you doing this? And then you can map that to. Okay, well, then how do I create that preferred or create an environment by which my people can thrive, helping them live their experience?

Is that something we should sit down with each employee and say, hey, what is your preferred experience? I mean, would that help map it out for them and maybe build something that we don't currently have?

I never find harm in having conversations. You know what I mean? Yeah. Is that a great question? I couldn't tell you. I think you know your people better than I do. Or hopefully you do. You know, one thing that we do here as part of our onboarding is we actually do include a personality assessment. And something that we've just started doing is something called a COBE assessment. Have you ever heard of a COBE assessment? A COBE K O B E assessment is different than a personality assessment because it assesses how you execute work, not your attitude or mindset about work, how you actually work, how you execute. Those two things combined, a personality assessment and a work execution assessment really paint a picture for whether or not you're actually even hiring that individual for the right position to begin with. And it also allows you hopefully to approach them with much more, I guess, approach that they would resonate with. Like if I know, for example, my lead designer is a lone wolf personality, he's not gonna, he's not gonna do well with tenderness and like, you know, sentimentality and he's not going to work well. He's going to be like, leave me alone, leave me alone, just leave me. What would make you happy? Leaving me the heck alone. You know what I mean? So those things are really crucial. Do one for yourself, like be honest with yourself. You're going to, you'll find out perhaps, or maybe you've done one. But you need a refresher. Knowing the people on your team to a greater degree is going to help, you know how you should be approaching them.

Yeah, it makes me think so much. You know, we talk about this all the time, but so many dealers, again, we just get so caught up in working in the business, we don't ever work on the business. And what Michael is saying just makes me think, like, man, even you, like, you spend time onboarding your people and you have communication. And I think sometimes I fight so much against like, hey guys, we're talking too much and we're not doing. Whereas talking is good, especially the right kind of talking. We should be having sit downs with our employees. We should be having check ins daily or weekly at least to make sure they're doing okay. I mean, I hire a kid and I'm like, well, do you know how to turn the machine on? Okay, clock in and go to work. Like, that's pretty much it. Like, can you stand on your feet for eight hours a day? All right, you're hired. Like, go do that. And because we feel like we have so many other things going on and then when our turnover is crazy, then we just get so frustrated. Like, well, why is everyone flunking out? Why am I hiring people all the time? And it's like, well, you didn't onboard them, right? You didn't set them up for success or you hired the wrong person because you didn't get the personality profile or. And so yes, you're in this continual turnover wheel. Bad culture, bad employees, high turnover, more headache.

Yeah, Think about this like as part of your self reflection, writing down what do you actually value? If you go to flex flexdealer.com if you go to our about page or sorry, our values page, we make it very clear that we only hire and or work with people that are compatible with our core beliefs. That's a huge guiding light. So imagine as the dealer now you're, you're not just reciting the fancy things that you've had decaled on the wall, you're actually saying, but what do I value? What do I believe in? What are my non negotiables, what do I stand for? And inherent in that, what do I stand against? That is going to shine a real interesting spotlight on your, your hiring process, how you onboard, how you keep in touch with your people. Because now all of a sudden you're not just hiring anybody. You know, a body is not better than nobody. You're able to, it's going to reflect in how you position your job postings and the wording and the messaging. Everything trickles down from this inward reflection that we need to give ourselves time for. Now look, it can be easy in the automotive industry especially where it's a bit of a shark tank to not show enough grace. And I think sometimes we talk about these leaders without much empathy because they're the ones with the risk or the money or in control. But I would just say to those leaders who are listening, show yourself some grace. This exercise of self reflection, of writing what you value, of getting clear on your preferred experience, you deserve that as much as anybody else does. You deserve that. You're not just here to be trodden over by your people and to sacrifice your, your entire being to these people. It's, it can, it can be a really interesting, nice symbiotic relationship. But if you can't show back to the whole point of demonstrating your values or what you believe, if you can't show yourself grace and tenderness, how are you going to do that for others? How are you going to do that for your team? So sitting down and taking the time, I would say those are the first two or three questions that need to be answered on a sheet of paper documented. You must document this. What is my preferred experience? Why am I running this business? What do I value? What are my values?

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Absolutely.

Back to the podcast.

That's just hard. I mean, you know, it's. Especially when you're in a small dealership to make sure all this is done. I was actually having this conversation with Alexa a little bit earlier today. And it's like we're in this catch 22 where we know everything we probably need to do, but we don't know how. We don't have enough staff to do it properly. But if we get too much staff, it might, you know, it might be too much on the balance sheet or on the P and L, you know, in a small dealership. Michael, how do you, how do you do it in a small business? I mean, I don't know how many employees you have, but I mean, you probably have some of the same issues that all of us do.

Yeah, look, there, there are 15 of us, including me. So we're not the biggest team. We're not the smallest team. Here's what I would say to you, though, if you can find time, which, by the way, right now, even having conversations like this, I'm seeing you and Jeff are writing things down. Maybe it's not you like actually setting aside an hour if you don't have the luxury of time right in this moment, but maybe it's during a conversation like this or you're driving home and you leave yourself. A thought comes to your mind and you leave yourself a voice memo. It can come together over time, and as you move on it, you will get even more clarity. You know, I remember and I can't remember who said it, so I'll preface with that. But I remember hearing a statement about how clarity never comes while sitting under the shade of the Cherry tree. It only happens when you put your shoulder to the plow. Like, in other words, get out and start doing something. So maybe you've had some thoughts during this conversation. I know I have. You guys know me from the podcast. I'm a ferocious, like ferocious note taker, right? I'm constantly. Maybe it's a word that comes to your mind. Maybe you wrote down the word honesty and you're like, huh, I'm having some feelings or thoughts about that. Well, guess what? Maybe two weeks from now you're like, oh, huh, okay, here's what that means to me. And you just jot that down, you know, and you keep revisiting that sheet in your binder. That's how maybe it can work. But here's what I would say to those that are like, man, how do we have the time and we're hiring all these people and all this kind of stuff. I've successfully proven for myself and with my team that a team of five people, when onboarded properly, when involved in a culture that they love being a part of, can accomplish more than 20 people and they can do it more effectively. They can actually do more. Like, I'm just blown away by my team. They could be doing the job of five people and they don't know it yet because of the onboarding. And by the way back, just touching on onboarding, onboarding does not end in our organization. Once you sign that employment contract and you do your few days of shadowing or whatever it is you're going to do, we let them know very clearly. Here's milestones. You've just embarked on a three year journey. In year one, here's some milestones. In year two, here's some milestones. You might receive a pay increase, you know, based on inflation. You're not coming to me in a year asking for a $50,000 raise. We make it so, so clear what you are getting yourself into that contributes to people sticking. That contributes to people learning their jobs more better, more efficiently. That contributes to buy in. And to your point, it's, I believe my opinion, based on what I've experienced, more people is not the answer. In a lot of instances you were more able bodied people is.

That's a hard, and that's a hard thing to wrap your head around because what you see is that I'm not getting, I'm not getting done what I need to get done with the amount.

Of people I have.

What I need to do is add more people when really maybe you need people. Yeah, get the right people. You know, I think. I think that's. I think that's a lot there, Michael.

I totally get it. And. And. But here's the thing you keep saying. You keep saying this, and I want to touch on it, because I understand it, too. We're not getting done what we need to get done. Okay, can you articulate that for me? What exactly is it that we're trying to get done? Well, I mean. Well, no, no, no, no. Pause, pause. Can you please articulate for me what you feel is not getting done? Oh, well, I just, you know. Hey, so you haven't figured it out yet. How do you expect us to? Yeah, and, like, more often than not, that's the case. If you, as the leader, can't articulate what you need to get done, you expect three years of experience, fresh from their job at wherever that, you know, they were working at Target and now they know how to push. They got experience. How do you expect them to know? And so this comes full circle into how do I have followers if I can't even lead myself? Leaders can articulate where they are going in a similar way that you would punch in the coordinates into your gps. I know that's kind of an overplayed analogy, but it's the. It's the most simple. The same way you get into your car, you plug into CarPlay or Android Auto, and you punch it. You go to Maps, and you punch in your coordinates. You need to have clarity to that degree so that you can articulate to your team members. And, by the way, be able to articulate your vision and desired destination to them at the level they're at and in the language they understand. If you really care about them and you really want to get all of this stuff done, speak to them in their language in terms that they'll understand, Luke.

And what it sticks out to me that when we talk about these things like, that is time, right, Michael, like you, your training manuals, your onboarding processes, your, you know, your expectation, your task lists, all these things do take time to build out in a dealership. You've got to get clear and get that on paper. But like you said, Luke, when am I going to have time to work on my dealership instead of in my dealership? I think it gets to the point where we have to prioritize it enough, right? And you know what? I'm not going to do this because this needs to be done. But if we got a phone call right now from our banker and said our account was overdraft, we're Going to drop everything and get that handled.

If we get a phone call that.

Our kid's sick, we're dropping everything and we're going to handle it. So if it was really that important and we really believed in it, yes. We would not go golfing on Friday. We would take those four hours and build out our operations manual. We would not, you know, have a podcast interview with Luke and Michael. I would be working on my onboarding process, you know what I'm saying? So I think it's not about time, it's about priority.

Yeah. It comes back to what we're talking about, which I. Which I keep, you know, saying because it just keeps coming to me. So clearly I've been thinking about it a lot lately. So you guys kind of get my verbal diarrhea stream of consciousness. But it comes back to preferred experience. If onboarding isn't your preferred experience, well, then just keep going the way that you're going. But if your preferred experience is actually something bigger and better, it goes. You know, it's like what Jeff's saying. I wholeheartedly agree. It's. Well, as creatures on this planet, we have an interesting wave making time when it's something we really care about. And so I guess what I would say to put a bow tie on that, as far as what I'm thinking about right now, somebody Jeff will know, somebody that I looked up to tremendously. He's now passed. His name was Robert Hales, and Robert Hales was a captain of industry. He was the CEO of Max Factor and all of these big corporations. College football player in his prime. All of these things. Well, when he was on his deathbed, just a lot of different ailments. He's in a wheelchair. He was visited by one of his colleagues, and his colleague basically asked him, hey, I'm curious. You've done all of these things in your life. What's it like now? Kind of being confined to the wheelchair, not being able to do any of those things anymore. Do you look back on that with some level of frustration or anything? Robert Hales replied with, when you can no longer do the things you've always done, you can only do what matters most. So the preferred experience loop, Jeff, like for all of us and myself included, I said it several times. I don't want people to think I fully figured this out. Progress is never a straight line. It's side to side. It's up, it's down. But what I would say to that is we have to get clear. Not just in this industry. Any leader who hears this? We must get clear on what matters most so that we can create the preferred experience. I refuse to believe that the only way to tackle the car business is to do things the way that they've always been done. Every business is busy, everything's got going on my phone. Just like I imagine your phone is dinging like crazy with stuff happening. What matters most you will create time for. And it's about creating space. That's what leadership is to me. It's about creating space for the things that I believe matter most. And I get to choose my adventure, just like we all do. But we must also take ownership of wherever that adventure leads us.

I tell you, that is, that's really great stuff, Michael. And I know that there's probably a lot of dealers out there that want to hear more of what you had to say. Where can we find you?

Yeah, so, hey, I mean, you can check out my podcast. Got this little doohickey of a podcast called the Dealer Playbook. But you know, connect with me on LinkedIn, LinkedIn.com. i think you just search Michael Cirillo and I'm, I think the only one right now that pops up. So I'd love to connect with people on LinkedIn. We can keep the conversation going. And of course I'd love for people to check out our little agency where we're helping dealers kind of break through the clutter and stand up and stand out. That's over@flexdealer.com.

That'S great. Michael, I've known you for years. How long have you been doing that podcast now?

We just passed our seven year anniversary. Wow.

How many podcasts is that?

That is.

He stopped it. He stopped counting at 203, four years ago. I think if I look back in.

The history, yeah, it's gotta be over 500 at this point. We started, we kind of shifted. I was like, oh man, I don't.

I can't keep track of these numbers.

Hundreds, Hundreds. Let's say hundreds.

And Michael, are you still on Clubhouse Daily?

No, no. In fact, that that kind of ties into this whole thing. I mean, once I discovered where what mattered most to me, I stopped attending Clubhouse in the mornings because I realized very quickly that my preferred experience in the mornings is to do my morning routine help and spend a little bit of time with my kids and wife before they go to school and do all of that. And I wouldn't trade that for the world. And by the way, if I didn't do that, then I also would not have the right to look at my. My tweener children and their cell phones and be mad about their cell phone usage if what I demonstrate to them is, first thing, waking up, pulling out my cell phone and sitting on it for four hours. So it's. And that's not. Hey, that. That's just me. But no, that's why I'm not there every single day. If, when you do see me on Clubhouse, it's been planned, and I know why I'm there and what my intention for being there is.

Yeah. And side note, not important to this conversation, but that is the fatal flaw in Clubhouse is, is it's. It's actual design to be spontaneous. Spontaneous. Spontaneous and kind of organic is its flaw. Because guess what? I don't want to sit on there for four hours to get the 15 minutes of Michael's insight. I want to go listen to his podcast for 30 minutes when I'm ready for it. And that was the big turnoff, I think Luke and I had to it. It's like we got to get everyone on board at the exact time, and who knows going to be there, and we're going to chat for two hours, and it's going to be like, yeah.

Yeah, it is tough. And I mean, really, at the end of the day, you could do that same thing with a conference call. Yeah, yeah.

What it is? And Michael, tell me, Flex Dealer, what is it? What do you do for dealers?

Yeah. So Flex Dealer is a marketing technology company. What we do for dealers is everything from powering inventory. We have our own inventory management system, which we, you know, early on in our conversation when I said I have kind of a deep affinity for independence, we built the platform in our early days strictly for independent dealers, and it's evolved over the years. So we have our inventory system. We have a content management system built in where they can manage their websites. So now they manage websites, inventory. And then we have the agency side of it, where my team will work with the dealers as their virtual marketing manager. So everything from ads to content creation to planning and strategy, that's usually the big thing that most people fall short on in our industry is there's no strategy. Everything's kind of cookie cutter rolled out. We like to really pay attention to your dealership, your market, what makes your customers tick, and then develop a strategy that will touch on the things that actually matter most. So that's what we do at Flex.

Awesome, guys. You know how to get ahold of him. Michael, thank you so much for your time. I mean, so cool. Probably the top celebrity we've had on the podcast, right, Luke?

I think so.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

We.

We've peaked.

Oh, shucks. Now you're making me blush. Well, thank you so much. Thank you for, for doing this and getting a message out there. I think it's tremendous. I think, you know, I would just encourage anybody that wants to get a message out there that they follow in your footsteps. They. And they just do it. They just get it out there. I think it's so important. Appreciate it.

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