#175 - Using B.A.T. To Find A Niche Buyer w/ Jack Handegan

Welcome to the Independent Dealer Podcast with hosts Luke Godwin and Jeff Watson. A podcast by Dealers for dealers. Here we go.

Hello. Welcome to this episode of the Independent Dealer Podcast, brought to you by Buckeye Dealership Consulting. Luke, we have a special guest from your neck of the woods this week, don't we? Yeah.

You know Jack Hannigan. Did I say that right, Jack?

You did.

You did.

Okay, so Jack's down in Charleston, South Carolina. Been in business four or five years, something like that, and very specialized. And I think it's be a cool episode of what we're doing here. Jack, say hello to everybody.

Hey, everybody. How you doing?

So, Jack, let's start at the beginning. What industry did you come from? What got you in the car business?

So going back, we'll go back to high school. Always loved cars. Loved four wheelers, loved anything with an engine, loved taking apart left, buying and selling them. And basically, when I was 15, I was offered a 1997 Silverado for $2,000. That was all the money I had at the time for play money. So I bought it and I sold it for $4,500. I remember thinking I scorched the earth. That kind of got that going. So all through high school and college, I bought and sold cars. I was actually a historic preservation major at the College of Charleston. I was working for a design firm and found a warehouse near my house for lease, realized it could be zoned for this, and kind of dove in head first. Had no idea what I was doing. Never worked in a dealership, didn't know. I remember the first car I bought at Manheim. I didn't know how to get the car out. I didn't know how to pay for it. I remember my, you know, just feeling like I was gonna throw up after I won the bid on simulcast. And then that just, you know, fueled the fury.

I still feel the same way every time I win a bid on simulcast. I feel like I'm going to throw up.

What did I do?

What did I do? I'm the last idiot.

Yeah. Especially right now. Especially right now.

Yeah, that's. That's interesting, Jack. And I think originally when you first started, you really had a. You like Mercedes and higher end cars.

You still.

I mean, is that still part of your jam?

So, yeah, definitely. So, you know, the first car I ever bought, that car I was just talking about was a 2010 Mercedes GLK out of Mannheim, Fort Lauderdale. Never forget it. And so for two or three years, I did a few classic Mercedes because I knew them really well. But my main bread and butter up to Covid was off lease Mercedes. I was using Mercedes Benz on demand, which some of our listeners may know about. Oh yeah, but I'd get on there and I'd buy Gle's C300 cars that were under warranty and that didn't need much recon and then I'd buy some that did because I could take the time to find the random little pieces on ebay and stuff. So yeah, that was my main thing. And put prior to Covid, I was selling just me doing. I was doing like 120 to 130 a year, which is very small. But for me it was huge and it was a lot.

Well, in a single, you know, if it's just you and your overhead low, selling 10amonth is great, right?

Yeah, yeah, it was. And it was, you know, the first year I opened it in October, I think I sold four cars during that two month, two or three month period. I didn't really make any money, but I was learning and I had to learn quick because I didn't know what. I didn't know any of these words, psi. I mean all the, you know, the stuff that we now know is so normal, having a dealer software. So it was learning quickly. And it's like I say, every time I lose money, I call it paying for car school because I learned best when I touched the stove.

So, you know, yeah, sure, yeah. Well, that's, that's interesting. Did you. Because the whole aspect of a warehouse dealership, that's fairly new. Did you know that's what you want to do initially or.

It is, it is. And you know, I'm 29, so I'm a millennial, but I saw how many people were going online. Personally, I would go online and look for a car and I'd go on auto Trade, I'd do 500 miles out and that's calling on cars. So I realized that I didn't meet a Charleston real estate on a main thoroughfare is astronomical. I could never afford it. So the warehouse thing was nice because it's by appointment so I could be flexible. And yeah, it worked out. And I think they're getting a little bit tighter on that, you know, as far as allowing that. But hopefully I'm grandfathered in or something.

Hopefully with Charleston then. So are you still selling a good many of the Mercedes and higher end cars?

So Covid hit and like everyone who's listening this knows the inventory went like this and no sale, no sale, no sale. And then suddenly you know, everything was selling MMR over, over, over. So I kind of pivoted during COVID I sold a few cars on Bring a Trailer and did fairly well. And I kind of just had a wake up call. I was like, this is what I really like. I like old stuff. You know, it takes a lot more effort and a lot more recon, a lot more specialty stuff. Takes a lot longer to get listed, but I like it. And that's all I'm doing now. 100% no retail sales, just bring a trailer and the occasional ebay.

Well, I mean, I've seen some of the things you've, you've run on there, and I'm sure your grosses on there are a little bit better than the other.

It is, it is. And you know, some you, you hope for something and you don't get it, and then some, you hope for something, you get way above it. So it's like everything, there's, there's mediums to it.

How did you know? I mean, how do you. It seems like pivoting like that is you're going up against guys that have been doing it for a couple decades. And if you're specializing in, say, Mercedes still, you've got these guys that are just like, they eat, sleep, drink and breathe it for the last 50 years of their life. And you're trying to battle against them to not only source these from private parties or auctions, but, but also know what it's gonna bring on the open market. How does that learning curve happen? Where are you getting that knowledge?

Well, so I did this always as a hobby with classic Mercedes doing kind of, I wouldn't say restoration, but making them nicer. And you know what I realized on Bring a trailer? It's all about the seller. It's all about their vibe, how happy they are. If they start to smell blood, the trolls will eat you up like a shark. So you have to learn to answer the questions you need to have the answers. But yeah, that pivot was just. I don't really know how it happened. I just suddenly had a bunch of old Mercedes, you know, I just started looking for them.

Yeah, and how, you know, I don't want you to give away any of your secrets, but we know that giving away secrets, nobody ever uses them anyway. So how. What's your primary way of sourcing? I mean, don't get me wrong, there's a lot of money in Charleston. There's, there's a lot of those cars around. Is that your main focus?

So I truthfully, I probably source 90% of my stuff out of state. So one thing I did do during COVID is I canceled my auto trader. I had car gurus, I had autotrader, I had cars.com and then I had one other lead source generator. So I was paying all those guys monthly. So I canceled all that and I said I'm going to take my money and put it into local advertising, Facebook targeted ads, you know, and I just put some pictures of older Porsche, older Mercedes, and I said, I buy classic cars. I've got a Silverado that I use for random stuff and I have a big sticker on the rear windshield that says I buy classic cars. So a lot of that and then a lot of word of mouth, but definitely not needing that. Auto trader, not needing that. Cars.com allowed that money to go towards other advertising. Sit on Craigslist and Facebook and ebay and hemmings for 10 hours a day.

Yeah.

So what was the first car you got listed on? Bring a trailer. Kind of walk us through that and that first experience and how it worked.

So the first car was actually as I was starting my dealership and I needed to sell it to fund the dealership and it was the 72 Mercedes. And bring a trailer was a little bit, a little bit easier and they weren't as popular then. So you, you know, you'd submit a car and it would get listed in two or three weeks. Right now it's about six to eight weeks. And I don't get any.

What?

Yeah, it's.

I don't understand how this website works. I don't even think it exists in Utah. But what you're telling me, you send a car to these people and it takes 60 weeks for them to.

So what happens? So say you have a 89 Mercedes 560 SL. So you go on to bring a trailer. You'd hit submit a vehicle. You put the vin, you put the history, original paintwork, they send you through a bunch of questions and then they ask for a picture of the title. They usually want videos and photos and that kind of stuff. So it is pretty detailed. And I will say, you know, based on their popularity right now, they're probably turning down, I don't know, I don't probably have any right to be saying this, but I think they're turning down a lot of cars. So what I quickly have learned is if you're going to submit a car and bring a trailer for people who are listening, if you're going to do it, don't half ass it. Get really Killer photos, really good videos, detail it way more than you think you need to. And have the car 100% ready because if it's not ready, it's. Yeah, you get fed to the sharks.

How many pictures are you submitting?

I think I'm at probably around 100 to 150 a car. And then what I also like to do, and this is just me, I put up paint meter reading photos. I do a cold start video, a walk around video showing interior, exterior and, and then I do a driving video with a GoPro.

How long do you figure it takes you to put that together, that package to submit?

A long time between detailing aside the photo aspect of it and then uploading the photos and making sure they're the right ones. That's probably four to five hours. And then the videos maybe another three hours. So maybe eight or so hours spent on that. And I wait for the lighting to be right. Like today would be a bad day for it. I'm just really OCD about stuff and I think that makes a difference on the sale for sure.

I know we send cars at classic car auction and we, I don't really deal with any of the Mercedes and cars of that nature. It's just not, we don't know those, that stuff. So what I like about classic car auction, we get it ready and sometimes they're not 100% ready and you can see the difference in what they bring and, and sometimes they're ready, ready, but all I do is I put them on a truck and I send them a classic car auction, which is to me a lot easier. But we don't get the gross that you get on there.

The one thing, a nice thing about the bringer trailer is I love meeting the people I sell the cars to. I've never met them in person. Every car gets shipped out of state, but they're always good connections. The other good thing is I pay $99 to list the car and that's it.

That's, that's, that's a good problem because I've had some, some cars at classic car auction that cost me $6,000, $7,000 to sell it, which is, you know, is a big number.

So yeah, 10 or 15%. And then, you know, transporting the car there and stuff. So I kind of, I enjoy it. And you know, frankly the six weeks gives me time sometimes, you know, sometimes I'll get the car ready, photograph detailed and submitted and then I'll go have the services done, have the tires done. So it gives me some time being one person.

That just surprises me, you know, I guess in a classic car, it's only going up in price over those six weeks and not necessarily down, hopefully, huh?

Yeah. Right now, I mean, you know, truthfully, there's some cars that I've sold on bring a trailer just four or five months ago that I think now are probably worth 10 to $15,000 more than they sold for. And at the time they would sold and it was like, whoa, that's strong.

Now I've got a 2010 Ford Fiesta.

That has the same story. Yeah, exactly. Right.

Luckily, that's the case with everything. But that is super interesting to me. It sounds like you would have to sit on a handful of money or flooring line, things like that. Do you ever get. You buy into something it seems like that would eat me alive if I had to sit six weeks knowing that I. Either maybe I know I paid too much and I'm putting it on there and I'm not sure. I mean, I've got some cars that give me anxiety and I. They're like, I got to have this thing gone by Friday because I just don't want to look at it anymore. Like.

Yeah.

How do you deal with that?

Well, so the way I deal with that, and trust me, I buy a lot of cars sight unseen and I kind of roll the dice. There are. I probably get, you know, out of every 10 cars, maybe two or three that I just instantly kick somewhere, whether it's a buddy or a friend, because, you know, it's still a good deal and there's money to be made, but it's not worth waiting six or eight weeks, you know. So luckily I've been pretty lucky in that sense that I haven't gotten a total dog. But, you know, it'll happen.

Jack, how do you. You know, the reason we've been successful a lot of times in the classic car auction genres because my dad grew up during the era of muscle cars that we're selling. Okay. So he can remember when the car was new. My grandfather was a Ford dealer when the car was new. So we have a lot of information already that he's obtained over the years. We've probably owned 150 classic Mustangs. We know that. We know the Broncos. We know the F150s. We know those things. How can someone who didn't grow up during that doesn't have that knowledge? How do you gain that information on the cars you're listing?

You know, so that's a good point. And that's one thing I'll say is I specialize in older Mercedes because I really know those cars. I can look at one and say, that's the wrong deck lid or that's the wrong handle, that's the wrong clamp. But I've learned, just for example, I just bought a 67 Mercedes 230 SL. I, I've always loved that generation of car, but I didn't know much about them. Well, I quickly learned that I paid too much for the car. And this will be, this will be a good way for me to learn in the future what to look for. Down to little things like having the correct fender welds, having the right textured dash pad, and if it's incorrect, the guys lose their mind on it. So I try to stay really safe on the stuff I know. And the reason I know those cars is because I've owned them over the years. I'm on the forums, I'm on, I'm on YouTube, I look at other bringer trailer auctions. So I've learned those cars. But for example, I bought a Chevelle ss. This was before I was a dealer.

And I was, that's something I know.

It was a 66, it was a 138 code. It was butternut. It was, it was the real deal. But I had a guy come look at it from a Chevelle form. I put it on. He said that the markings on the control arms aren't right. And you know, it's little things like he goes, and that's been switched from that little stuff that you look at and you go, that's a beautiful car and it's perfect. But those things are a 10 or $15,000 swing in value. So I'm, I, you know, I try to stay in my lane and stay with what I know. And I know there's guys who know everything about every single car. I don't see how you can. But for now, I try to stay safe because you really have to, like.

You'Ve got to say, I'm only going to deal with Mercedes in the 1960-1970 era. And I'm only maybe even going to stick with this, these couple models, because it's infinite. I mean, it's just you cannot know everything about every classic car. And if you try, I imagine, I mean, it's like dealers, right? I'm a buy here, pay here dealer. And the second I start stepping out of my realm of what is a good buy here pay here car, that's when I get my hand slapped and I lose money because I'm trying to like be everything to everyone.

Right. And to your point about just sending cars to collector car auctions, that's a great way to make good money. And the good thing about it is, you know, that car is available for one day for a preview and then it runs across the block for 45 seconds. Well, I'm bringing a trailer. Your car's up there for seven days. And frankly some of the people that are on there, they're in their parents basement and they're looking through every photo, can't afford nothing. Yeah, they'll go, they'll go. In photo number 78, it appears that the trim has been replaced. Can you confirm if that's an OEM part? I mean you have got to have an ironclad vehicle and you've got to know what you're doing. If not. I just watched a car yesterday, it was a 280se and the guy bought it on bring a trailer for $28,000 a year ago and he put about $7,000 more in it in the auction. So he relisted it, enjoyed it for a year. Relisted in the auctions. The people came out of the woodwork noting every little thing. The seat belt anchors were incorrect. He lost about $15,000 on that car. Because you know, you make money on the buy, of course, but because those trolls came out. Better not say trolls.

Yeah, I've got this written down. Trolls on bat. So yeah.

They have no intention of buying. They have, they don't have the money and they have no intention of buying it. They just want to tear it up to prove how smart they are.

Exactly. And there's no doubt about it. These guys are absolute knowledge mills. I mean if you look at some of the air cooled Porsche, I would never list an air cooled Porsche on there because there's just no way. I mean these guys know so much little minute stuff that it does matter. The stuff they're pointing out does matter. But unfortunately you will see a lot of guys, they'll have zero. They'll, you know, it shows you when you click on a username it'll say they bought X amount of cars. They bid on this. They'll have zero bids and they'll have 8,000 comments. And you do get a lot of guys who don't really know. And they can screw an auction up by going those whole. For example, I had a 560SL and they drill in the rear, the rear fascia for the European tail or the European license plate and the American license plate. So there's there's eight holes on the rear. And he said, unfortunately, this car appears to have been drilled. This is a common mistake and should never be done as it can cause rust. And I had three other 560sls. I said, that's on every single car that's original. But if a seller was not knowing that, he might have said, oh, I'm sorry. Then people read that it can ruin your option.

Yeah, that actually happens at classic car auctions, too. You know, you'll go out there and somebody be checking your car out, and they don't know that you're the owner, and they'll start talking about your car and they'll say, well, you know, this car has been. This has done to it. And then finally you just gotta go stop. You don't know what you're talking about.

Right.

You know, I've had tons of these cars or, you know, I've done it to people, too. Like they're advertising a GT Mustang as a GT Mustang, and I crawl underneath it. Cause there's three or four specific, you know, bolt holes. It has to be a gt. And I go, that car is not gt.

Yeah, it is.

I bought. I bought it as a gt. You got screwed.

Yeah, but you paid for it. You didn't get a gt. But yeah, so there's. I use the word trolls endearingly. It's not, you know, horrible flight to them, but there's definitely some really great information on there. I mean, stuff you would never know that you should know. And then there's guys that just sit on there trying to comment on everything. And some people really get off on derailing an auction. I mean, you know, it really, you can tell. They went there, they came, they saw, they conquered, and they pointed out everything wrong with your car.

Hey, guys, sorry for the interruption in the podcast, but we need to talk about Buckeye dealership consulting there. Jeff.

Yeah, yeah, the great sponsor of the podcast. Great guys over there for your reinsurance needs. So whether you buy here, pay here, or retail lot, I'm sure if you're selling classic cars on bring a Trailer, there's probably some opportunity to reinsure there as well.

I would assume so, because there's always a chance to reinsure a risk that your dealership's taken. And that's what Buckeye Dealership consultant wants to let you know. They have all kind of products from PSI to vsi, CPI guys and gals, to build wealth in this industry and to do it the right way. Reinsurance is the only way. And these guys can help you out there. Right, Jeff?

Yep. Yeah, talk to Buckeye. And now back to the podcast. So what I find is interesting, Jack and Luke, we've talked about this before, but we say this all the time. Like if I were to start another dealership right now, maybe with my, the one I have or a side project, I would do a very specific dealership. And that's what I think is really cool here. Jack, you found a niche and you found money inside of that niche. You know, like, I may do an electric vehicle only dealership, or I might do a Jeep only dealership, or I might do a Mustang or a Corvette only dealership. Because you're becoming valuable to that group of people. You know, you're not trying to be everything to everyone. And I find that super interesting how when you become that expert, man, there's still a lot of money in those tiny, tiny little niches.

There are, and there's so many of them. And I'll tell you, once I get on something like I just sold a bunch of really low mileage Silverado Z71s and you know, once I learn them, I'll start buying them. And one thing I did in college is I bought and sold a lot of low mileage Crown Victoria police interceptors.

Oh yeah.

So I would find them with, you know, 10, 15,000 miles and buy them and put them on ebay and they sold like crazy and the margins were huge. So I've always enjoyed those little weird niche stuff that you're like, really, someone's into that, you know, but they're out there. You just gotta find them and then you gotta know them.

I've found that about really low mileage cars is, and this is for everybody, no matter what type of car it is, if it's super low mile and it's got a story behind it, that car usually makes money, right, Jack?

Someone wants it. The stuff that you're like, why would someone want a low mileage Eagle Tower? You know, some. There's somebody out there and they want it and they want it bad. I just sold a 4200 mile F150 and it's going to Australia. And this guy has a warehouse full of low mileage 80s trucks and he had to have it.

So that's, that's interesting. How many, how many countries have you sold to, Jack?

Just in the past few months, I sold A, a W111 Mercedes coupe to Sweden. Sorry, I'm getting a phone call. Let me ignore it. To Sweden. I sold a 56 Plymouth to Norway, I think it was. And then that one's going to Australia. So over the years, a lot of countries and you know, truthfully, usually those are the cars I don't make much money on for some reason. I don't know why, but it's nice to see them leave. I've sold it.

So back in, I think in like 04, so we started selling a lot of cars on ebay and it was just interesting to see the market and how it was evolving. And I really wish I wouldn't have stopped and I just didn't have enough time. Like Jeff says, you can't be everything to everybody. What I should have done was open something like you had on the side and did that. You probably. You weren't selling cars back then. But what has changed from the ebay form of selling cars? Cause you said you were selling cars on ebay to the, to the bat. What is. Is it the comments on the photos? What else is there that that's different.

One of the really nice thing about bring a trailer sales, if somebody bids it, they're buying it. I mean I think there's sale ebay.

Oh yeah.

Oh, you know ebay. I think I read somewhere their sale follow through is like under 60% I believe. And bring a trailers is above 98% if not 99 point something. So everyone who's on there is the real deal. You know, they don't just go dark or say, you know, my mother told me I couldn't buy. You know, they buy another thing. Bring a trailer, charges the fee to their credit card the minute the auction closes and they are not getting that fee back if they don't follow through. So.

So.

I was so frustrated about that on ebay. So many times where I sold cars and just never people ghosted. They bid in the last second and then ghost you. And that's just horrible.

Yeah. Oh yeah. I had it happen to me three times on a car this year that I didn't want to send a bringer trailer. Three times. I mean, not a good batting average.

Are you still selling cars on ebay then?

Yeah, occasionally. Like I said, some of the ones that I don't feel like waiting on, bring a trailer. I get the car in and I go, this is not something I'm going to put on. Bring a trailer because it's not going to do well with the crowd I will send to ebay and you know, occasionally get a good experience. But there are few and far between you.

Are you helping anybody with financing on these? Are these some People that are having to finance or is this really just bring a check, bring a trailer, Bring a check, bring a check.

Yeah, bring a trailer, bring a grocery bag of money? No, they're every seller or every buyer that I've sold to pays cash. And I will say that the buyers on Bring a Trailer are extremely wealthy. I always google my buyers just because it's fun to see where.

So Jack, let me ask you that. So I think a lot of people are scared of this. You know, sell the car, ship it across the country, ship it internationally. Give us just real quick your like litmus test for taking. Does bring a trailer facilitate payments or do you have to buy everything out? Has to be done outside of it. So you're taking wire transfers? I mean when you say cash, these people aren't, they're not FedExing you a box of cash?

No. And that. And I will only take wires. You know, there's just too many check scams going on right now. So I would say more than 50% of the cars I sell to the buyer has an LLC set up for their collection. And they'll just send me a wire and then I send them the paperwork and they get it notarized, which is something I've started implementing. And they sign the paperwork and send it back and set up transportation. So I've never had issues.

So when you say do a wire, you're taking this random person who just won your bid, you're giving them your routing number and your checking number and saying, wire me my money.

We have, we have a special account for wires. That's what you gotta do.

Okay, you have like a zero balance account for wires?

Yes, it's like, yeah, it's like a clearing account so that you know, before I send them that they send me copies of their driver's license or the business license. So you know, I do a little bit of googling and stuff, but yeah, I mean some of the people that have bought cars in there are billionaires. I've had a few on there that are very, very, very wealthy and you know, if they want it, they buy it. And their secretary, pretty crazy. I mean it's definitely amazing.

Do you develop those relationship as now in your Rolodex of like, hey, I know you're interested in Mercedes this year, I'm going to contact you the next time I have one?

Yeah, sort of. And a lot of people who bought cars have said, hey, I'm looking for this and I've got a frickin notebook on my desk of people's names and what they're looking for. And, you know, so I have some people that I've made good friendships with off of bring a trailer. And then I've had some people that they've sent a wire and I've never talked to them or that's been a second degree situation. So those are not new. I mean, it's, you know, it seems.

Like that's the ultimate kind of pinnacle of this, of this avenue you're in is becoming the, you know, just having that Rolodex of people where you know exactly where to offload a car the second you buy it and who to call and, you know.

Yeah, and it's nice because, you know, with bring a trailer, the buyer has seven days to do their due diligence. You know, and I provide pictures of any flaws. I'll put a picture up with my finger pointing to it, do the paint meter reading. So that's another thing is I learned. I mean, you know, when I was in high school, when I would flip cars, it wasn't always 100% honesty, you know. You know, there was, you know, I quickly learned within like two or three cars, like, not worth it. So I either fix everything I can. I mean, everything to like, some people are like, that doesn't need to be do it or just disclose, disclose, disclose. Because then when they get the car, everybody's happy. One thing I've always wanted first.

The first car I ever sold on ebay. Never forget this, y'.

All.

I'm sorry. It was the third car. First car I ever sold was like a 92 or so Volvo station wagon. They were hot back then. And the next one, I can't remember what it was. But the third, I think it was. The third car was a Saab. And you know, Saab's in South Carolina. Nobody wants them, and nobody may want them anywhere anymore. But. So this guy, this guy drives up from Atlanta, I think, and he gets here and he tears the car apart. I mean, he was the ultimate SOB buyer and just berated me on how I had listed the car. And back then, as I recall, you can only put about 25, maybe 30 pictures on eBay. It may not even been that many. It may have been 16.

I think it was. I think it probably was 10 or 15.

Yeah, the guy just tore me up. And I. And I was just like, what you're talking about right then. I said, you've got to be. You've got to over describe everything you're doing. And that's the only way this is ever going to work.

Yeah. And I tell you, I've had. So since I started my dealership, I've always strived for five stars. And there have been times where I've given people concessions where on, like, some of our dealer groups, I've said, what would you do? And everyone says, tell them to go F themselves.

Yeah.

But I've always been about, you know, even if they're wrong, if it cost me $500,000, I will do it just to keep people happy. And one of the first bring a trailer sales I had, I sold a car to a guy, and I could kind of feel the energy that it was gonna be a headache. And he got the car and started complaining. I said, I'll buy the car back, plus your transport, plus whatever else you paid, plus your fees and everything. And he didn't want to do it, and it became a nightmare. And he wouldn't sign a repair agreement, which I learned about through one of the groups. I mean, I can't tell you how much of this business I learned from these Facebook groups, you know, down to just the smallest little thing. So I have had one deal like that, and you try to cut them loose, and you'd offer them above and beyond, they still won't take it. I mean, what do you do? You get a bad review from it.

So, yeah, Jack, what happens when you offer? Because I've had this. I've had this happen before. Offer to buy the car back plus transportation, and they don't want to do that. Is that someone just being, you know, what's going on there?

That. That. That's the one time I've ever had a real upset customer and that everyone else. I've never had a bad review. I had one fake one. I don't know who did it, but I tried everything. And so we eventually came to an agreement, and he had found some rust under a spare tire that was hidden under a compartment. It's something I would have disclosed because I would have disclosed or had somebody fix it. It was a $300 thing. So he got a body shop quote for $800, which I thought was absurd. And it was. It was in Ohio, and it needed to be flatbed. So I said, let's flatbed it so it doesn't rust or whatever. And I said, I'll pay you $300 for your time. So I was offering him $1,500, just signed the goodwill agreement. He wouldn't do it. And the same guy tried to buy the car back. So eventually, I just Said, you know, I just said, listen, I can't make everyone happy all the time, so cut my, my losses and just kind of moved on. It still bugs me to this day, but I mean, I don't. I wouldn't have changed how I handled it, that's for sure.

You know what I find is so interesting? I was laying in bed last night actually thinking about this, and we all have these auctions, right? Well, made me start thinking about it was these middlemen, right? There's a lot of middleman wholesalers, right. They buy from one dealership and they run it to the auction and flip it and they've made great money doing it. But as technology evolves and it's starting to cut out the middleman and not only, I mean, the wholesalers, but technically it could cut out as dealers at some point. Right?

Right.

Yeah, but. But what's evolved is these auctions, right, Like ACV and backlots and things like that that are now trying to go dealer to dealer. You know, they're trying to cut out that wholesaler and just say, hey, I can list something in my lot here at my dealership and sell it directly to use and use this ACV as a middleman. It sounds interesting to me that if you had something like bat for dealers, you know what, BAT is just a very, very strongly vetted group of buyers and sellers. Right. It's really hard to get in. It's once you're in, you don't want to get kicked out. Like, if you had a platform like that, that was a dealer to dealer platform, where it's like, you know, like, you know, you had all these very specific requirements and it's like, it's only the best of the best. And once you get in as a seller, you do everything to keep your reputation, and once you get in as a buyer, you do everything to keep your reputation and stay in there, that would be a super interesting kind of organic type website to set up where dealers can sell to other dealers. And it's a like complete, above board on your honor type network.

Yeah. And to your point about vetted sellers, it's kind of, you know, not to sound cocky, but I have a little bit of a reputation on bring a trailer, where I feel like if I put a certain car on there, it'll bring more than most sellers would be able to sell for. And to put it in, you know, terms that people understand, it's like when you're buying a car from Robert Hollinshead, you're willing to pay a little Bit more from a car that's coming from his lane than one that's coming from so and so used car lot in the middle of nowhere. You know, you just get a little bit more comfort knowing that, you know, someone's gonna stand behind it in that sense, talking about, you know, who you're buying from and what you're buying.

Yeah, you're exactly right. Because he, you know, he developed that over the years. And that's the reason he is who he is, which is, you know, and that's kind of how it is on the retail side. You know, the reason we can still do business, because we've been doing it the same way 35 years, and we do it the right way.

And what dealers need to understand is it builds on itself. Right. So, Jack, when you started and you had to front that guy the money on that bad buy or the bad sell, it was probably hard for you to be like, okay, I'm gonna make nothing on this car. But what I'm doing is investing in my future. And I think what, you know, the bad dealers in the community do is they're looking to take advantage of everyone. They're not looking to give anything. And then it's just this slowly kind of downward spiral of their dealership, where a bad reputation and then they start having to cheap sell stuff just to get it out, but then they don't make money and then they get a bad reputation. Whereas someone like you, you're like, I'm going to spend some money to keep my reputation good, which actually in the long run, is going to make me more money. And same with Lou. His dealership has a reputation where, like, he can charge a premium because people want to buy from him because they know the car is going to be, you know, so it's kind of that upward.

Yeah. And I think, you know, if somebody was new listening to this podcast, thinking about starting a dealer who's never done it, try to make everyone happy. You'll never do it, but, boy, if you try, it goes such a long way. And I look at it from a retail standp. I just bought a car for myself personally, and everything in the auction was super high. And, you know, I was calling around dealerships all over the country, and I'd look at their Google reviews, and if their Google reviews were in the can, I wouldn't even call on it just because, you know, that's enough. And I like to think that I still think as a consumer, even though I'm a dealer, I mean, those good reviews are worth Their weight in gold. I mean, fight for them if you can. If it's a $300 alternator, my God, do it.

That's, you know, it's something to be said also and to go down this rabbit hole, but there's something to be said about making sure when you open up a business that you are capitalized properly to make, be able to make those decisions. Because if you're not, if you go out and, and you don't have the money, it's hard for you to be able to help people. But the problem is, is if you don't make those right decisions up front, you're never going to make it. And that. Yeah, that sucks.

Yeah. Yeah, definitely. It's worth it.

Jack, is there. Are you seeing another course of like another trend that you. That you want to get into another car? Maybe you want to start focusing on it. Do you see something coming up?

You know, I don't. I try to keep my eyes open, trying to find stuff. And you know, it's so funny because I see a lot in the car groups. They go, man, these Acura NSXs are really on fire right now. And going back to your point, it's like, yeah, my 99 crown Victoria's on. Everything is on fire. I mean, every muscle cars, Japanese cars, hybrids, everything is through the roof. So I do think a lot of guys on bring a trailer right now are buying cars, hedging against inflation. I think a lot of people are, you know, like your money in the bank right now is losing every week, it seems like. So I think a lot of people are buying cars, classic cars, to hedge against that end because they're fun Covid. I think a lot of people were Covid. Were bored bought projects and hopefully that'll keep going.

Yeah. What's that tipping point, Luke, where I hold onto a car long enough that it actually starts appreciating? Because I've got some of these out here that I've had for a minute or two, and I'm just hoping that I hit the bottom of that. That thing and start going back up.

In 20 years, that 03 Honda Accord, somebody's gonna want that promise ya.

So what was. What' is in the last two months we've seen 17% consumer index pricing increase from the automotive used automotive side. So we've never seen this before. And I would probably argue within the last four months we've seen close to a 30% increase in consumer price index. So what we're seeing right now is not going to continue. And it's not going to be here forever. So we got to figure out how to make money the right way.

I mean, I'll never forget being in the group and learning and reading your post. And thank you so much for all the questions you answered because you know that stuff means a lot to me and there's a lot of guys in the group who answered my questions. You know, there's a lot of those groups. You ask a question, they're like, really? You know, you just get roasted. And I'm like, but there's a lot of people in that group that made a big difference in my life. And that stuff sounds cheesy, but it means a lot. And yeah, so definitely thank you for all that.

Well, we appreciate that and we're hopefully putting these things out here like this. You're out there helping somebody now, so that's, you know, that's what you're supposed to do. Right, Jeff? Yep.

Yep.

All right, Jack.

Hey, appreciate your time. This has been super, super informational. It does make me realize then like there's those niches. Stay in your lane. Don't, don't get too excited by the shiny pennies because you know that's sometimes when you can get hurt, man.

So yeah, yeah, get on, get on. Bring a trailer and check it out. It's a great website and some of the stuff on there is just so cool. And it's anything from million dollar Ferraris to like a, a Saturn, a 2001 Saturn with 140 miles somebody found.

So it's every that they still want a million dollars for.

And you know, that's the stuff that I like. I like a 4200 mile Ford F150 from the 80s. A newer Ferrari. I don't, doesn't do anything, you know.

And just I don't want to prolong this because I know we were wrapping it up but where like is this not dying? How can these still be out there? It just blows my mind that someone's like, oh, I just happen to have this 1980 F150 sitting in my barn and it's got 100 original miles. Like how is that even. I just don't get what rocks are these cars sitting under? I just don't get it.

It's crazy.

And especially now everything's bringing so much money. A lot of it's coming out of the woodwork because we were like was the time to sell. But yeah, yeah, definitely, that's a good point.

I could see an upswing in used cars. They've Been sitting on dad's Mustang forever thinking that it's only worth $5,000. And then they stick their head in the forums and find out it's worth 20, and maybe it changes things for them.

Yeah. And unfortunately, a lot of people, it's. Somebody put in one of the groups the other day talking about classic cars as investment pieces, and somebody was talking about, I think it was a Grand national and how it sold for 140,000. But then somebody did the math. If you took the money from the grand national and put it on and like the NASDAQ or something, you'd be worth, you know, 5 or 10 million. Something crazy.

Yeah, that's. It's, you know, collecting classic cars really is fun. There's, you know, there's a little bit of investing there, but we've had cars that's appreciated a lot, that we've had them, but for five years. But then when I think about, well, if I'd have had that in the market, the return. Yeah, I don't know.

Yeah, if you had bought dogecoin with it. Right, yeah.

The one off. Nonsense. So tell me this. Do you ever have an ethical issue? And again, I started to keep dragging this out, but when you show up to that old lady's house and she is selling her granddad's whatever, and she had it listed at like five grand, and you know, you're about to turn this thing for 25 on bat, do you ever have like an ethical thing where it's like, sweetheart, I can't give you five grand for this. I got to give you ten? You have no idea what you have. I just can't take advantage of you.

That's an interesting, that's an interesting idea. I'll try that next time. But one thing I've learned, there's two things. Well, somebody, a friend of mine told me when I first started, he said, profit's not a bad word, you know, so don't feel bad about making profit. But I'll tell you, if I see a good buy, I don't has. I don't haggle. I mean, if the money's there, even if they're a little over and it's an easy deal, just do it. You know, I don't, you know, it's like, I try to watch pennies when I can, but I've gotten to the point where it's like, let's just do it and do it right. So I haven't had any of those situations, though, where I feel really bad. I will say I drive a Lincoln Town Car. When I go look at cars. I did daily and driving S class, I drive a Genesis G90. But my going to looking at cars vehicle is a Lincoln Town Car.

Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

All right.

Well, Jack, thanks for being here, man. We learned a lot today.

Thank you guys. Yeah, this is awesome. I love this.

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