#259 - Better Together, DPG joins 20 Groups.

Hello and welcome to the Independent Dealer podcast brought to you by Buckeye Dealership Consulting. We had a great, great conversation just now. Luke with Scott Allen, Rob Fox, the architects, obviously, Scott with NIADA and Rob with buckeye bringing the 20 group programs, the DPG programs, back under one roof and uniting them. Yeah, super cool.

It is. And I have some commentary before we start interviewing. I have been a member of both, both systems. Right. I was in the first NIADA group ever put together and that was before we even bought Lead Them. Okay. That group was a cluster. It was run by Joe Lascoda and it's not because of Joe Lascoda that it was a cluster, but it was just a bunch of groups put together. A bunch of people put together. Don't get me wrong, I've made some of our best friends in the car business in that group. But there was a, you know, Marshall and Eric selling $40,000 luxury cars and $60,000 luxury cars. And there was a buy here, pay here, customer guy selling $7,000 cars. So it was made up with a bunch of different people. It didn't work. And so the only thing NIADA could do was grow. And so Steve Jordan purchased Leadham's groups. And I think you were in a lead them group, right?

Yep.

And so I was on the services board when this happened and I thought it was the greatest thing in the world. And it was. Our groups got mixed up and we, we were smooth sailing for a while. Right, but what was the one thing you kept saying that that didn't happen? Right. Nobody was listening, Nobody was listening to us. Right.

Just reinventing the programs, things like that.

And so, so what, what Buckeye and what Rob did, I really, truly think helped fix the problem. You've been to an all, all group meeting, which I think is very, very revolutionary. And also the data input was so much easier than it had been. And I know you complained about that over the years. What has happened, because I'm not in a NIDA 20 group currently, what has happened to the groups since. Since this fell apart.

So what I think when you talk about any 20 group, I don't, I think there's a certain level of magic that comes from the moderator. Right. A certain level of magic that comes from the format, whether you're a three day format, a two day format, whether your group likes to do destinations, whether your group likes to do hotel in and outs. But I think the majority of the magic is just comes from the blind luck that you have got a group of dealers that you like. Being around and that you have a camaraderie of the core 5 to 8 to 10 dealers in the group, and then you're going to have another five to eight to 10 dealers that are just kind of there for education but don't really participate. Right. So I've been in probably three or four different iterations of a 20 group. You know, the first one had a very, very strong core group that liked each other. They liked hanging out. We all enjoyed going to meetings and spending time before and after. And then you start losing some members, and then you get a moderator switched, and then maybe your group falls apart and then you struggle to regain traction within your group. Because I know Even in my 20 group right now, it's a little bit harder. You know, we're a little low on numbers. It's a little hard to get a solid commitment out of people and kind of have that camaraderie, even though I've got a great group. But I know other 20 groups with the exact same moderator that they would never miss. They're bursting at the seams, and you would not miss that 20 group meeting even for your own kid's wedding, you know, So I think it has. It's. It's a magic that just happens when you've got the right dealers together.

100% agree. And what Rob found out, and he told us as much, is that you can't be everything to everyone. And there you have to have a certain pool of dealers, and if you don't have enough people participating like you talk about, the magic doesn't happen.

And so you're not forced to put retails with buy here, pay here. You're not forced to put 20 million portfolios with ones. And you can have starter groups where everyone's kind of at the same level. So, yes, there's definitely an economy of scale that makes the education better.

And being in a 20 groups, hard work, Jeff. And people may not know that out there, it's not just going to a destination and party and having fun. It is every month putting those true numbers in, making sure you're running your dealership. Right. Because if you don't commit to certain things, they're going to kick you out of a 20 group if you're not doing it properly. I'm so glad they're back together. I commend Scott Allen for his work. I commend Rob Fox for his commitment. The amount of money he spent to.

He's walking away from that.

He's walking away from. He's given back to the niada. I think this is, I think this is huge.

That was the first comment that you said, Luke, when I said, hey, I think the groups might be getting back together. You said, there's no way. Association can't afford it. Well, it changes the economies when you've got a guy like Rob that's willing to just, Here's a gift. I mean, and I don't know that I've even paid that much in pro rates over my 20 years.

So that shows you Buckeye's commitment to the NIADA and to dealers, in my opinion. And that's, that's important here. Rob's done a, done something great and Scott has facilitated it and, and I just commend the board on, on this decision and Rob on what he's done.

Yeah, and, and not that Rob's going to disappear, you guys. Obviously Buckeye Dealerships Consulting, still a sponsor of our podcast. I think they'll be around for a while. Buy Her, Pay Here United. The summit is still going to be an integral part of what Rob's doing for now. You know, we're going to have a Buy Here, Pay Here summit and IADA is still going to do their fall Buy Here, Pay Here forum. Super forum. So what, we've got plenty of education and we will see you at Buy Here, Pay Here United.

Luke.

Yeah, let's talk about that for a second because I think that NIADA could look at maybe joining with Buy Here, Pay Here United. I can tell you this great show. Jeff and I are going to be there and it's at the Bellagio. Super cheap rate. Jeff.

April 30 through May 2 and also.

Just announced, NEO is going to have a one day user summit the day after. So you're going to still get the same pro rate or the same rate at the conference for the NEO User Summit. So a lot of things going on at Buy Here, Pay Here United. You should be there. Jeff and I are going to be there. Jeff just has to drive. I have to fly.

Yeah, I'll sleep in my own bed at night. But to the point of the two conventions, they are different. And to put those two together would take a drastic change from either of them. Because obviously Buy Here Pay Here United is very limited in its vendor. It's limited in its reach. There's only what, eight or nine or 10 vendors that are a part of that. Whereas obviously fall convention, there's an expo hall, there's all vendors you see, all technology. It's open to everything. So there's a bit of A different dynamic from the two by here pay here. United is very much focused on the education through a limited amount of vendor input. So I don't know how they marry those two, but yeah, there's a place for both of them in my opinion. It just would be a matter of which one.

So we got about a 20 minute interview with Rob and, and Scott. So sit back, relax, listen and, and if you have any questions, email us.

You are listening to the Independent Dealer podcast with hosts Luke Godwin and Jeff Watson.

Jeff, you missed a lot of action because you didn't make it to the all the 20 group all meeting on Friday night.

Had only I known it would be so action packed, I would have risked the divorce and gone down and just rolled the dice. But guys, tell us real quick. I think a lot of dealers know what's going on. They've seen the press releases, they've seen the other announcements and some of the interviews you guys have done. Just give us real quick, maybe we'll go to Rob. Rob, I just keep going back to that movie as a kid. It was called Parent Trap where they like get the two guys, you know, the old, the mom and the dad in the room and they like convince them to like, work out the differences and fall in love again. Did this happen, anything like that? Did someone corner you guys, put you in the same room and say, let's, let's bring this together? Rob, give us real quick how this even comes about.

Lawrence Mead got us together. So it was kind of. And it wasn't really a Parent Trap. We knew we were meeting, we had a great dinner, had a great time together, spent three hours. Scott and I barely knew each other that well, but we did agree on that for the long run. The 20 groups and performance groups, whatever we call them, need to be under one tent. Okay? And that tent was niada because that is their mission for training. So we agreed on it. And again, we agreed on this back in June and we started talking in June. We probably talked, I don't know, every other week, once, twice, maybe three times a month till December. And then like Scott and I said basically midway through December, we were like hair on fire. We're doing this by the by our all group meetings. We thought that was a really good place to announce it. We had a really good attendance.

We.

Had really good feedback. Some we wanted, some we didn't want. And, you know, it was a really good. It was, it was, you know, and just Scott and Melanie and Jeremy's, you know, credit, you know, they showed up with Bill Elizondo. I wanted to build there. You know, he publishes everything on Facebook. They all came, had dinner with us and the announcement was made. And then we set up on with Dave Brotherton, set up on a panel and answered questions on.

And so basically let's go, let's go to Scott real quick, Jeff, because I think, I think we need to, we need to dig in. We know the side of Buckeye with, with how this started. Scott, what makes why. And I think we all know the answer. So why did NIADA feel it was so important to get this back together?

Yeah, really? I think that's a pretty simple question to answer. When that happened, when DPG was formed, we as a board and at NIADA and the entire staff and everybody associated with us definitely recognize that we maybe we missed the mark on some things because there were, you know, some great developments that were happening over there on the DPG side. We circled and talked about the importance of the 20 group program, why we got it into it in the first place, why it was such a great fit for NIADA and for our members and decided that we were not going, you know, that we were going to do everything we could at that point to strengthen our side of our 23 program. So we started developing a new platform for our 20 group program centered around an onboarding process and expanding our offerings to smaller dealers in express groups and things like that. While Rob on his side was working with the buyer payer dealers on the composite and the great strides that were made from that side and the all group meeting and all those great things that we saw. So back in June, I mean, I just felt like there was time for us to maybe talk about what we could do together. And that's how it really started. It wasn't really to start one side, put a place at one side or the other, but how can we strengthen this all the way, you know, all the way around for all of our members? And it just morphed into the opportunity to come to this integration. And so then we worked very hard to make that happen. And I think at nida we learned quite a bit about what our dealers really want based on what the dealers told Rob and Rob responded. And we, we see how that, how beneficial that was and, and want to do that exact same type of process with our 20 groups going forward.

Yeah, what's funny, what's funny is, Jeff, you've always wanted one thing out of 20 groups, right?

What's that?

Integration to be free dinner, but integration to be able to, to Seamlessly put.

Your mother and so tuck on my heartstrings, buddy.

I do. And I tell you, there's been great things that have come out of, out of what happened here.

Well, I want to say that, Luke, before you make your point to Rob's credit. And I know, I think the, I think the situation is Rob is handing these back to niada. I mean, I hope that's tax deductible. I don't know whatever you're going to do on that side of it for you, but you figure that part out. But so here's the thing. I've been in a 20 group for, I don't know, 20 years, right? Ever since. Lead them, whatever, a long time, it became complacent, right? Certain moderators, certain formats, certain things became very complacent. And so when something comes in like this and really kind of shakes the foundation that caused the association to say, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, we just hemorrhaged half of our members. What can we do to keep the ones we have and get in new ones? And it caused us to innovate. And just like Buckeye came in and innovated the DPGs, right? So good, bad, ugly, whatever this thing happened, man, it should have caused everyone to look at the groups and say, okay, we have got to reinvent ourselves and take these things to the next level. Which is ultimately great because now you've got two organizations innovating and now you could bring them both back together. And like Luke was saying, I mean, data integration, huge. Rob made it happen and now we get to reap the benefits. Okay, guys, just to jump in real quick, make sure you know about primaland great sponsor of the podcast, great place to go to get your lines of credit to get your financial consulting done. These guys, they jump in, they stand behind the industry and they'll help you grow if you want to grow.

And you know what else they do, Jeff? If you, if you're sitting on a piece of property or see a piece of property that you want to buy, it's a dealership, they will come in and lend you the money to do that. And so there's so many things that they can do to help facilitate the growth of your business.

If you're a dealership and you can justify owning the property underneath your dealership, you have to, you have to, have to buy here, pay here. Maybe you got a portfolio and it's a long term portfolio play. If you're a retail dealer and you're not putting equity away in the property, that you're on top of, I think you're missing a huge part of being.

A car lot anytime. Anytime you're paying rent to someone else, you're doing yourself a disservice. So building wealth can be built with reinsurance, with Buckeye or it can be built with owned property. So either way that's what you need to look at. So we were both when the first lead them purchase happened and I, I guess how long that was? 2017 or 18, I guess maybe I.

Was seven years now.

Yeah, I was on the services board at the time and I thought it was just made total sense because 20 group education, the education dealers get from 20 group is so important. And Niada's mission essentially is to, is to educate a dealer. Right. Can you speak to how it started, maybe happened and where we are now when it comes to using 20 groups for education?

Well, first of all, 20 groups provide an enormous amount of data from some of the greatest operators across the country. And one of the things that we are focusing on doing a better job of is using that to help further our advocacy efforts, our education efforts and everything that we've learned from, from going back to Litum to this point. So before that we acquired the data from the lead them and association from LIDUM, from the data of the 20 groups going all the way back into the late 1990s. We have almost six and a half, almost seven years under our belt with the 20 group program where a lot of that data was not really utilized. And so there's been a refocus now to as NIDA to become part of the, hopefully the source to go to for independent dealer data resources and things for advocacy, education, et cetera. The 20 groups bring besides benchmarks and all that great information. It provides dealers with an opportunity to grow, to profit, to innovate, to, and to do many, many things as a group that really just can't happen without, without that kind of a setting, I believe. So I don't know if that answers your question, Luke, if you want to follow up, maybe I can say some more. But I mean it just naturally is a great fit for NIDA what we do. It pretty much covers the education, the advocacy and the furthering of the industry as we see it.

So Rob, what did you learn from the last 18 months to two years about 20 groups that you think gives you a different perspective on NIADA and a different perspective on your business?

Well, really it's, you have to have a large group, okay, and, and a large group so you can offer more products in more 20 groups. So the bigger your pool of basic 20 groups are, then you can start pulling people who want service, who want collections, who want different things. Because when you're only dealing with eight groups, you're not gonna have enough people to do that or nine groups. So while we had some really good ideas for groups, we now have enough pool, you know, a big enough pool to pull from. And in talking with Scott, they were having the same issues. Hey, we need to, you know, we need to get these guys back together so we can offer F and I, you know, many more product offerings. Again, it goes to training. You know, you might have, I think when this is all said and done, I think there's just shy of 20. 20 groups. Well, you might only have. Out of that, you might only have three. Three service groups and two collection groups, but you'll be providing the training. Going to your question, it's the training that is needed. Go back to the boot camps. You can start them at boot camps, mature them to 20 groups, mature them to collection groups, service groups, and you're educating your dealers all the way through the process. And again, you need a pool of 20 groups to be able to have those offerings.

Yeah. Scott, can you talk to us about. I think one thing that Buckeye did really well, and I've said this before, is. And Rob, maybe you can correct me if I'm using the wrong words here, but you've got. You've got. Rob's got people that he consults with, but there's a dictatorship in efficiencies. It happens. When Rob speaks or one of his VPs speak, it happens. And that's probably one of my biggest issues I've had with Niada and 20 groups is there's a lot of talk and then there's a committee, and then there's a lot more talk, and then we run it past board, and then we have another committee, and then we talk about it again, and then we try to implement, and then it's three years later and we still haven't got a new composite, and we still haven't done these things, and we're barely getting express groups off the ground. And my 20 group is still, you know, not as big as it should be. So Scott helped me understand or get the vibe that maybe we could bring over some of that decisiveness and decision making from DPG to just make these things happen.

Sure, Jeff. I think that that's. That's quite a challenge when you're working from the private sector versus an association sector. And as you well eloquently described and hopefully we're not going from committee to this to back to committees and this, you know, a lot of juggling but it does go through committee for, and then does come to the board for a vote and then it has to be implemented by the staff and hopefully it's just three step process. But y there is more moving parts, no question about it. You get a lot more input from as Rob described yesterday, he's a single operator and he will make those decisions and can make those decisions very quickly. I have a 12 member board, I'm one of 12 that we have to make sure that we're covering all the bases for all of our dealers. We have, you know, as you know, close to 15,000 dealers. Everything from very one rooftop, from 10 employees and less all the way to stores that are selling 4 or 500 cars a month and have 3 or 400 employees as well. So we have to try to find ways to make sure that we're offering programs that can benefit our complete all of our members. And really truly it just comes down to the structure of an association versus a private firm and how decision can be made by one person. And that's not going to change the association level. But yes, we are trying to move quicker. We are trying to see if we could streamline those processes and get them through the pipe much quicker. I think we're on the right track. We've got a lot of great programs in store. We've worked on a lot of things from our side on the 20 grid program while Rob was developing his as well. And we're combining I think some of the ideas of both what he brought with the composites and the all dealer meeting that we definitely want to see a continuation of. And then we want to make sure that we're onboarding our, our prospective members into a process right away so that they don't have to wait sometimes, you know, one, two or three months before they get to the visit their very first group. And maybe the iron is not quite as hot as it once was. So we're going to move them directly into a group A and then a group B where they can begin learning about the composite, how to enter the data, what it means. And so we can begin a training group, a training program for members who are moving into the 20 groups while they're waiting for their next groups meeting that they're going to attend as a visitor to see if they're a good fit and we have a place for them during that period of Time as well. So I think that's important as well as the express groups that I've already mentioned. So I think that we've learned a lot from what Rob's done. I think we've learned a lot from what we're doing. We're going to try to implement it all, and hopefully we're going to move at a much quicker pace. But yes, there's a difference. And there's a difference, vainly, because it's private versus association and nonprofit.

So, Scott, Scott, who's in charge of the 20 groups in Niada now?

Jeremy Beck is in front of the. Is in charge of other 20 groups.

Okay, and what other jobs does he have?

Yeah, yeah. He's also in charge of our. The launch of our new CPO program, our educational platforms and dealer development, including convention.

Can we. Can we please scrap the CPO program from. Oh, my gosh.

Anyway, let's talk about moderators real quick. Luke, we have Ben, we have Bill. We know him, I think it was announced today. David's coming over. Right? And then. Is that it? We have three. Three strong moderators. Ben is mine, David is Luke's. We all love Bill.

And there's a retail. There's a retail moderator as well. Right, Scott?

Yeah. Ed Curry is his name.

Ed. Right, of course, Ed. How can I forget Ed?

Rob, I. I got a question for you. What. What did you. And what did Buckeye learn from this experience?

You know, what did we learn?

Dead air.

Come on, you had to learn something, Rob.

You know, I gotta say that the Buckeye itself can't be everything to everybody. And I think you hear a little bit out with, you know what Scott saying, when you have a lot of clients, you know, we really thought that all 350 of our clients would participate because Buckeye did it and they did not. What did we learn? We learned that it was probably easier for the association to do this than us. Nothing worse than that phone call, especially the person who knows my number who wants to dispute a charge from a dinner where someone ordered a 300 bottle of wine and you're trying to prorate it to all members. They're like, rob, don't you charge me for this. You're like, wrong call. So as far as what we learned, one, we enjoyed it. I'll tell you right now, enjoyed it. But when you're doing business with them, it's. There's needs to be definite delineation. And we didn't have that. We. We just merged it and we thought, well, because Buckeye did it Everyone will do it. You know.

I think. I think independent dealers have that problem too, Rob. I know I have that tried to be everything to everyone when it comes to. To the car business. And it. You're right, it doesn't work. The same. The same question I asked Scott.

What.

What did NIADA learn from this experience?

You know what? I. We shook it up. You know, I think we all should. Is that for me or is that for Scott?

Sorry, that was.

That was for Scott. What. What. What did NIDA learn from it?

I'm okay to defer to Rob at any time, but I will say that, you know, your little tagline for today was Together Again, which is a very true statement. But I think Rob's vision for 2023, Better Together, is even a truer statement. And I think that that's one of the things that we learned at NIADA is that partnerships and relationships and communication about our platforms and the things that we're working on is one of the most important things that we can be working for in 2023, and that we are all better together when we work as integer partners, aec State presidents, past presidents, as a board, as an association, everyone involved, and all the stakeholders that we can accomplish great things when we work together. And I think that's really what we learned mostly.

Scott, what would you say to some of those dealers that during the split, maybe got a little soured to niada? I know there was some, maybe some, you know, harsh feelings or bad feelings that maybe some dealers that are in DPG groups right now might still be harboring, and they could be debating on whether they're going to stick with the 20 group program or whether they're just going to, you know, drift off into the abyss. What would you say to those, Scott.

Can I take that. Can I take that one real quick? And Scott, I'll make it easy on you, okay? Because, you know, let's go back to what I learned, and I want to. And I said this at our thing, you know, we all folk. Instead of focusing on NIAD as an organization and what we could do as an organization, we focused on individuals. We need to focus on NIADA and what it does for all of us, including Buckeye, okay? Including Jeff, including Luke, everyone. And when, you know, we say better together, we're all better together. And we learn that. We learn that. Hey, listen, it's not as easy as it looks. First. Second, you need to listen to everyone, at least be heard, okay? You don't have to do everything everyone says, but you at least Got to let them be heard. I think over this whole period of time that's what we came to understand that, you know what, I sat there and I focused on the wrong things. I was reacting, we all were reacting instead of giving input and maybe it wasn't wanted at that time. Maybe we didn't have the right people in the board or in certain positions that wanted the input or was asking for the input. But what we've learned is instead of focusing on individuals, focus on what NIADA does. You know, it is, I think incumbent upon all of us to get this back to pre pandemic 2019. We need to have a rock show. I don't want to say Chicago because I don't like to go to Chicago, but the Chicago show in 2019 was the best buyer payer show that we've seen. You know, we need to get back there. We need to keep that, go back there and get that momentum, ride that wave. And we do that by focusing on, on the association, not on Buckeye and not on Jeff and not on Scott. We look at the association and say, how do we make it better?

Yeah, let's talk about that real quick if we can. Rob. I know Buy Her Pay here United is happening this year. I'm super excited to go. Are we still going to have a Buy Here pay here United and a fall Buy Here pay here type convention? Is that still in the.

Well, I can't answer. Well, I can't answer the thing about the fall. I can tell you that Buy Here pay your knight is in is going off at, you know, again at Bellagio at the end of April. We're excited. We have a really good lineup. I mean, I can't, I mean, I can't express how excited I am. Some of the topics we're talking about, you know, we're talking about data. You know, we now know how people spend their money. How crazy is that? I mean, if we were talking with some people, you know, in the modern data collection now, they know if the customer says, well, I live in Houston, but they find out they're doing extended stays in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. Crazy things with the technology we have now, we need to share that information. So yes, we are on. I mean, we've got the next four years in Vegas already booked and we plan on having those events.

And Scott, I think there's been some confusion on the last couple of years as what you call the, the fall show and, and, and what's going on there. I assume currently that NIADA is still pressing forward with with the fall shows.

Yes, sir. At this time. Absolutely. The last time was the Buy Here, Pay Here forum. It will be coming. We will have one again this fall. This year, it will be again in Chicago. Maybe we can duplicate some of the things that we did in 2019. I don't. I would love to see you there, Rob. In fact, I've kind of enjoyed so much on these calls with you that maybe we ought to experience, maybe check into. Maybe we could do a podcast together. I'm not sure. I think.

Scott and Rob show.

I think there might be something to that. But no. Yes. We are definitely looking forward to having a great fall show as well.

And you know what made the fall show in 2019 so great was I was on the big stage and I'm just telling you, I just killed it right in Chicago. It was a great.

I don't remember that. I don't remember.

You weren't there anyway.

Anyway.

Downhill ever since.

Is that what you're saying? One thing to your point, Luke, Jeremy has said, hey, can I come? And, you know, back to the better together stuff. I mean, we want them to come. We want, you know, we no longer. No longer as moderators. I would love to use the NIADA moderators to be the trainers to take the. Whatever we get there, the information and get it to the 20 groups, get it to the people who don't show up, get it, you know, onto the web page again. It's better together and it's. It's not just something we're saying.

I agree. And Rob and Scott, both of you, I just want to congratulate y' all and, and tell you how important this is for the industry. Rob, what you did is super important to the industry too, because sometimes you have to have disruption to make things better. And, and we, we've all been vocal about some of the things we've loved about NIADA and some of the things we've not loved about niada. And Scott, I think you've done a great job as president so far. I know you still got several months remaining on that duty and hopefully we can all get going in the right direction now and finish out the job that we all need to do, I think. Anything else?

Jeff, that was awesome. Gentlemen, thank you so much for joining us. We value your time immensely. I know you guys have got a lot going on and this is awesome. We're super stoked to see what the future brings.

Thank you all.

Thank you guys. We appreciate everything you do, you know.

Thank you.

I want to say you guys you know, and I'm. I'm speaking for Scott, but we already talked. He and I talked about you guys already once. You don't know about it because you.

Weren'T in the room.

You know, we appreciate you guys both. And, Jeff, you're not even a client of mine. I still appreciate you.

Okay.

Yeah. I'm excited by a vendor.

I feel like I'm a.

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