#275 - Oh Captain My Captain w/ Jeff Martin

You are listening to the Independent Dealer Podcast with hosts Luke Godwin and Jeff Watson.

Hello and welcome to the Independent Dealer Podcast, brought to you by Buckeye Dealership Consulting. Luke, it is convention season. I feel like I say that every podcast. Is it always convention season or these things just come up faster and faster?

Is that like wedding season?

Yeah. Well, it is the best time of the year, I'll tell you.

Best time of year.

We just came off Buy Here, Pay Here, United, and it reminds me of how much I really do enjoy these things. It's just a lot of fun to get together with other dealers. It's a lot of fun to bounce ideas and just get motivated. Because every time I go, I realize something I didn't know. I didn't know. And I find someone who's doing a different business model and it just. It blows my mind.

And you find people that tell you how they are doing it, and you go, that'll never work. And they've been in business for 25 years. And you go, well, okay, maybe it does work.

And you just.

Yeah, we go, okay, all right. But we met. We met a lot of people, and we meet a lot of people at every convention we go to. And NIADA is definitely, you know, my. Typically my favorite convention of the year. And we've got Jeff Martin here, the CEO of niada, to talk a little bit about this year's convention and then talk about how. How the progress of the association is going. Nice to be here, Jeff.

Thank you, Luke and Jeff. I certainly appreciate the invite. Looking forward to it.

So first off, Jeff, everyone that's listening to this right now, the clock is ticking. We're behind the eight ball. You're behind the eight ball. If you haven't already registered for convention June 19th through the 22nd in Las Vegas at the Wynn, correct?

That's correct, yes. Now, we'll tell you, Jeff, the early bird registration has passed, but you can still get the discount for the hotel rooms. And I believe that ends. It's. It's late next week, so make sure and get your hotel room. But you still have time to register for the event.

Yeah, Crazy. Yeah, that's.

The win is great. I've never. I've never been there, never stayed there and saw the rate was great. Jeff, is it going to be there for the next couple of years or what's. What's the deal there?

Yeah, actually, this year we have a contract next year to be at the Wind, and then we do not have a contract in place for 2025 at this point.

So that's what I was going to say. I mean, when I booked my room just two days ago, I thought I hit something wrong because I looked at the total and I was like, well, that's crazy. That's got to be one night or two nights. So I went back and looked again. I'm like, no, the room rate is 174, plus resort fees and taxes and all that crap. But anyways, incredibly cheap to stay at the Wynn just to get into the convention, I think, what, your regular attendees, like 500, 600 bucks or something, right? Yeah, Airfare. Who knows what that is these days, depending on where you come from. But anyways, guys, we break it down all in. You're going to be a couple thousand dollars into this, but it's 100% worth it. Jump on, book it right now while you listen to the rest of this episode. It's not too late to come out and join us in Vegas here in June. Jeff, what are dealers going to experience for those that have been before, for those that have never been to a national convention? What are they? Why should they be there?

Yeah, and you know, Jeff and Luke, you guys are seasoned veterans as it, as it relates to the convention tour, certainly the networking, the education, that's very important. You see that a lot at the various conventions that are out there. But the thing that really sets NIDA apart from a lot of the other conferences is the fact that we're going to have the irs, the cfpb, as well as the FTC all there offering education sessions. It's going to give you an opportunity not only to hear directly from those agencies, but also we're going to have a Q and A, and they'll be talking about some of the things that may be coming up in the future. And to me, I think that's one of the things that really sets NIEDA apart from some of the other conventions that are out there. But look, guys, the education, the networking, you guys know that's absolutely key when it comes to the conventions.

Yeah, I agree. And I loved when those FTCs and all those people were there. We've had that a couple years at the policy conference. Very educational. And they're not as aggressive as you think they are. They're really there to help dealers, and hopefully that's what they're going to be this time, Jeff.

Well, and not only to help the dealers, but I always say too, I mean, they have to learn our industry. You know, these are the guys that are writing the rules and regulations that we're going to have to live under. And very few of them, if any of them, have ever worked in a dealership. And so it's important for us to be able to go out there and. And kind of tell our story. You know, I say all the time, you know, nobody loves our customers more than we love our customers. And we've got to make sure that those agencies understand that. And I'll tell you guys, and you know this, we're going to set a tone, and we're going to send a message to those agencies. And the message is either going to be, we're a group of people that don't care that much about the industry because we don't show up at our conventions, we're not actively participating, or we're going to send the message that I feel confident that we're going to send this year. And it's that we do have an active group of people. We're a very loud voice, we're organized, and we're here to help them with any regulation that they're considering. We want to be a part of that conversation. And setting that message or setting that tone is very important at these conventions.

Yeah, for sure. You know, another thing I really like about convention is keynote speakers. And you actually have somebody I really look forward to seeing this year that's Sugar Ray Leonard. You know, that's the fun part. Don't you enjoy that?

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, you know, certainly keynote speakers can set the tone because they usually speak at the beginning of the convention. And Sugar Ray Leonard, obviously, you know, who can. You just can't deny the success that, you know, that he's seen over years and years and years, not only as a boxer, but, you know, also as a business, as a businessman. But one of the things that we really liked about Sugar Ray Leonard was his message. And you guys know this is a tough industry, and there's a chance with some of the, you know, what we're seeing right now in the economic makeup, there's probably some adversity that is coming. And his message of overcoming adversity and developing a winning attitude, I feel like that just. That really sets the tone for what we want to do, not only as an association, but also for the members of our association.

And, Jeff, I saw you y' all mix things up this year with the NQD Award. What's the deal with. How's that going to be done this year compared to previous years?

Yeah, it's a great question. It's one of the things that's new we heard from our members that, you know, doing the dinner late in the evening, toward the end of the convention, we started to see the numbers wane and we didn't have as much one, we didn't have as much participation. And then the other thing, Luke, is I don't feel like we brought enough attention to those National Quality Dealer nominees. And you guys know, I mean, I'm sure you've seen the lineup over the years. It's just unbelievably impressive the people that the states send as their nominees. So we're doing two things. One, we're going to continue to, to promote the nominees throughout the event and you'll see, you'll see videos at various places so that we can learn who those nominees are a little bit more before we come to the day of announcing who the winner is going to be. But then on the day itself to try and attract more attention and hopefully have more attendance at that event, it's going to be a little bit of a keynote address to the attendees. We're going to again introduce all of the nominees and then we're going to crown the winner probably around 4 o' clock on Thursday. This will also give people an opportunity who are looking to get out of Vegas by that time. They can still catch a flight and get out of Vegas on Thursday. One of the things that we've been hearing is that the NIEDA convention is too long and so we're trying to find ways to maybe shorten that up a little bit. But also we want to make sure that we're, we're giving the attention that is needed for those National Quality nominees. I shouldn't say that's needed, that is deserved for those nominees.

Yeah, I think when, when I was participating in the, in the award ceremony, it was, I was so humbled and thankful to, to have won the Carolinas. And when I got to national it was like, okay, you're not winning so you can just go set aside. So I'm glad to see that maybe a little bit more is going on. And I tell you, some of the dealers and what they do for their community is mind boggling. I went out there, you know, oh yeah, I got a chance and after, after about me about two or three, three of these deals, I think there's no chance I've got. So anyway, I'm glad.

But Luke, to your point, it's just a great story. We have so many great operators in our business and you know that. I mean, I don't know how many times I through that event. And every time someone's name comes up and they talk about the accolades or what they do in their community, their philosophy on running their dealership, working with their customers, working with their employees, every single time one of those videos plays, I go, oh, well, that person's obviously going to win. Well, you know, after you say that 18 times in a row, there can't be 18 winners, but there are certainly 18 people or 20 people or whatever the case may be that are deserving of it. And I think it's just a great, It's a great day for us as independent dealers to celebrate all of the good quality operators that we have.

Yeah, for sure.

Yeah. So one of the things I saw on the agenda is the amount of service, service conversations that are going to be had. So I think that's really cool because I think all of us agree that, you know, recon service, we've got to find a way to do it better, cheaper, faster, because it's just getting harder and harder and harder. So I really, I look forward to a lot of those sessions and I, I kind of look forward to the expo hall too. You know, I know there's a lot of new technologies being kind of, you know, founded, brought forth that are coming out right now, so to be able to go to the convention hall and kind of see who the new guys are and, and who's going to make our life better, easier, more streamlined. I like, I like that stuff too.

Yeah, no doubt. And we're going to have over 200 vendors in the Expo this year. And I think you're spot on, Jeff. There'll be a lot of new products and services that are out there. You know, we always talk about that as being kind of one of the kind of organized networking, if you will, which is very important in these inventions. But this year we're also going to, we're going to offer what we're calling service bays, which is just a unique learning environment. It's going to be in the Expo, they're going to be about 10 to 15 minutes long, and it'll be an opportunity for vendors to talk a little bit about the service or to talk a little bit about the product that they have. And part of what we have found is, I know this is going to be shocking for you guys, but dealers don't have very long attention spans and sometimes what? Squirrel. Squirrel.

Squirrel.

So we're looking for some other environment or some other platforms to be able to provide education. And we feel like that that expo does that not just in the kind of the sit and get education. But walking around and talking to, as Jeff had mentioned, you know, talking to some of the new service, some of the new providers and some of the new services that are out there. So it's something obviously we're very excited about. And look, the vendors are a big part of the success, not only of the conference or the convention, you know, they're a part of the success of our dealers on a day to day basis. I mean, everybody uses some vendor for something and so we, you know, they're very, very important to our kind of entire ecosystem, if you will.

Jeff, I've been to TI88 conference twice and I just want to tell you, you do an amazing job at putting on a conference. Now. I know a little time strapped this year to from time you started to the, to this time, what are you bringing from the Tiada convention that we will be able to see here? I guess your flavor. What's different?

Yeah, it's interesting, Luke. I mean, I think some of the stuff that you probably see ends up being work behind the scenes. And so I'll just kind of tell you on a structural level, we're putting detail sheets together so that we can make that conference flow really well. And it's not something that you would ever think about seeing on the front end. But the smoother you can make that conference conference run, the better experience it is for all of your attendees. And then obviously we talked earlier about the CFPB and the FTC both being there. I really do feel like these conferences are the opportunity for us to build platforms to make sure that we're showing the voice of the association. But the other thing, Luke, is, you know, we've got to make sure that we're listening. And I think that we're probably taking more staff members to this conference than we've ever taken from niada. And I've communicated on more than one occasion. We're going to be doing a lot of listening. If we're going to be the voice of the members of this association, we've got to make sure that we're out there listening and we're going to have staff and our team is going to be out there doing a lot of listening. So that might be something that you wouldn't necessarily say is a. You may not see that necessarily as an attendee, but I'll tell you over time you're going to start to feel that.

All right, Sorry to break in here, but we got to talk about some sponsorship, Jeff.

Yes, absolutely.

So Buckeye Dealership Consulting. So I use for my, all of my now Jeff, all of my reinsurance products. I tell you, I've learned so much more about reinsurance in the last four months. Switching everything from my old company to my new. I'm still trying to get it sort out but you know what? I am learning things and I'm learning how to do it and everybody at Buckeye is so freaking nice and knowledgeable and they help me do it. You know, what else can I say? I use them, they're the best. What else you want to know?

You can teach an old dog new tricks.

You can, especially one like me. I'm just a know it all. So you know then I didn't know it. Oh my goodness. But anyway, Buckeye Dealership consulting, cpi, vsi, vsc, all the V's, all the P's and they'll help you get it done. So give them a call.

Yeah, so.

So Jeff, I want to transition a little bit into, you know, you talk about the staff of Niada and it's no, you know, secret that there's been a handful of turnover and kind of a lot of motion going or whatever and I don't even know the details, this is just from the outside, but talk to me about kind of settling into the position. You know, for you it's been 60 days obviously like I mean to hand pick someone to take that position. You of all people are like the most qualified individual that could get on a sinking ship, find the holes, seal it up and get us back afloat. Hopefully. I don't giving you too much credit or whatever, but what do you give us your vision? Like where are you, where are you taking this ship now that you've patched the holes?

Yeah, well there is certainly some work to be done, but I'll tell you that NIADA has a great history and we want to build on the things that NIADA has done well historically. Are there some things that we probably are going to do different? Yeah, we're going to do a few things different. I don't know that I can divulge all that right now. But just as a philosophical difference, I will tell you that we're going to be significantly more committed to being the go to entity when it comes to compliance and that's really at the federal level. But we also want to be able to help support our states because most of the rules and regulations that you're going to see that are going to affect your dealership are going to happen at the state level. And I want to make sure that NIDA is in a position to be able to support the states that need support, but also to be aware of what's going on in the states where if we don't have a state association, that we're actively involved in the process at that state level as well. So I would say philosophically, that's one of the things that will certainly be. Will be very different than what we've seen just maybe in the most immediate future. But a big part of that, you know, Jeff, is kind of making sure that we, I say this all the time, but kind of building the platforms to give members an opportunity to be actively involved. You know, nonprofit associations are. I really think they're pretty easy. I mean, they're member owned, they're member governed. You know, the first step I would tell everybody is, you know, join your state association. Then you've kind of taken care of the member owned part. The member governed part is a little bit more, it takes a little bit more effort. But we would encourage everyone to at least find a committee to be actively involved in, come to the convention, be active in participating. When the association has those opportunities to participate in. Luke had mentioned earlier, Washington, D.C. when those opportunities come up, certainly take advantage of those. And that's kind of the member governance part. Then the last thing for me is growing the influence of the association. I really feel that is the primary responsibility of every association. Sometimes you can get all. Or we can get sidetracked with some of the other projects that we have going on. But I feel like if you kind of hold the mirror up every time and you say, are we growing the influence of the association? And you can do that in a lot of different ways. You can do that by growing your membership. You can do that by being more educated as an industry. You can do that by being more active with the. Whether it be federal agencies or state agencies. And so I think every time that we start talking about what are we going to do as an association, what's important to us as an association, it should always be about growing the influence of the association.

You and I discussed a week or two ago about the size of associations. Jeff and I thought it was. You had an interesting take on it. I assume our association is probably around how many people? 15,000 around there. Do you see a need for our association to grow any bigger than that or what are your goals when it comes to membership? Because that does help affluence in our numbers, no doubt.

Yeah. And certainly we want any license, any licensed dealer, independent auto dealer to be a member of the association. But I think that what we have to do, Luke, is we have to make sure that we're actively recruiting, you know, dealers who ultimately are going, are going to be around. And you guys know as well as I do it's, it's a tough business. And you know, I know that when we were in Texas, when you got your license, a third of the dealers would go out of business in the first year and then another third would typically go out of business in the second year. So we have to be responsible with our members money and make sure that we're not going out and spending a significant amount of money recruiting members who ultimately, by no fault of their own, are not going to be members in the very near future because they're not going to be in business anymore. So I think for us in Texas, we used to call it responsible growth and we're going to deploy that same tactic here at Nieda. I think that we have to make sure that we're growing the association responsibly because you know as well as I do, if it cost, you know, let's say it costs $500 to join the association, well, if we're spending $501 to recruit that member, then it's going to be hard to keep lights on around here.

So that is such an interesting point. I was sitting in a committee meeting probably six or eight years ago in Vegas and NIADA had done this big push that one of the presidents decided to grow the membership and they were doing all this anyway. At the end of the thing, we had spent, I'm just going to use a number. We had spent $10,000 to do this. It was way more than that. And I think we had gotten $9,000 back from new membership anyway. So I love that idea of responsible growth because it really, it is our money, so we need to use it properly, right?

No, 100%, Luke. And you know, I believe that this is, I understand that we have a responsibility and by we, I mean the board, the employees. A member joins that association, we're managing their money and I want to make sure that we're responsible with how we use that money.

We talked about the National Policy Conference earlier and actually I remember the first time I ever met you that I recall you and I went on a run in Washington, D.C. and that's been a couple of years ago. I had more hair and Jeff, I'm not sure you had any more hair, but you know, is that old for.

This year or what's. Yeah, absolutely. Not only is it on for this year. And I think it's September 18th, 19th and 20th or in that timeframe. And not only are we planning to have it, we're also planning to go back to the Hill this year. The offices appear to be open. I'm really excited. This is one of the things where I feel like the partnership between NIDA and the states is so important. And this is one of those areas where it's just, it's imperative that we work together and we find NIDA strengths and we find the state's strengths and we, you know, work together to benefit from both parties strengths. So having the dealers come in from the various states and you know, Luke and Jeff as well as I do, I can go in there all day long and talk to a congressman or talk to a senator and at the end of the day, you know, I'm a hired gun. I'm paid to go in there and talk to them. But if you're a constituent and you go in there and you have that conversation with them and you can talk about what's happening on your street or whether the local restaurant closed down last week or whatever the case may be, it's so much more impactful. And so you as dealers play a significant role in that. And our states, our executive directors who do yeoman's work out there helping to get those dealers to Washington D.C. and get them actively involved in that process. We've got to continue to find ways to work together and build a successful campaign that's ongoing. It's in fairness, you know, there's probably nothing that hurt the momentum more than the policy. I mean, Covid didn't hurt anything more than the momentum of the policy conference and I hated to see that happen. But we're going to get that back on track this year.

Good.

That's really good. You know, everything was always done great at that thing and I'm glad that's getting back going.

Yeah.

So. So Jeff, so the influence of the association, growing membership, things like policy conference are kind of on your agenda and your hit list now that you're in charge of this show. What about obviously conventions moving forward and you're going to continue to put your kind of taste and your preferences into convention as we move forward to make it better for the dealers. Are we still going to have a fall buy here, pay here, show out of the association?

Yeah. So Jeff, let me say this. We have a contract right now to have a, an event in Indianapolis and we are planning to.

I'm sorry, where is that?

In Indianapolis.

Not on the East Coast.

Yes. Have you ever.

I don't know. I've never heard of it.

Yeah, you're gonna have to. Yeah, it's going to be a long trek for you.

That's random. Was that like we pulled that out of a hat or was that just like the scratch Jeff?

I think Jeff inherited that one.

It was the best opportunity that we had at the time.

We got. We got two for one at the HoJo and the buffet downtown is doing this real solid on the food, actually.

So let me ask you, how many times have you been to Indianapolis?

I'm kidding, I'm kidding. I've never been there and everybody there is going to hate me.

I'm sorry.

I've been. I've been once for 20 group and I had a good time, so. But it's going to be November. It's going probably cold in Indianapolis, Jeff.

It could be. We've got our fingers crossed. I anticipate that we're going to have good weather, but even if we don't, I will assure you that the JW Marriott has heat and. Perfect. Yeah, we're going to be perfectly fine inside that hotel room. So it's going to be an awesome location. We actually did a site visit there last week, I believe, and Indianapolis has a lot to offer. Admittedly, November might be a little bit chilly, but I do want to emphasize that the JW Marriott is phenomenal property and they do have heat there. Just in case it is a little chilly outside.

Is that one right near the Lucas Oil Stadium? Right, right.

It is.

Okay.

Yes, it is. Indianapolis will be playing in Germany that weekend, though. Yeah. Yeah. The Colts are going to be Germany that weekend.

So on top of that, so policy week convention, we're still going to do a buy here, pay here in the fall up in bfe. What else are we. Anything else on the. On the dock at the horizon things you're doing? I mean, our 20 groups. Can we talk about 20 groups?

Yeah, absolutely.

What's new there? What are you hoping to accomplish or what's going to be kind of new and exciting as far as putting the DPG and 20 groups back together again?

Well, let me say there were a lot of moving parts with that. I'm very excited about a number of the new dealers that we have coming into the 20 groups. And you guys know as well as I do that the success of those 20 groups really had to do with dealers sharing information with each other. And so bringing new blood into those 20 groups certainly is very beneficial to the success ultimately, of the 20 groups, we have a couple of ideas in that particular area. We're looking at maybe allowing some other speakers to come in and present to those 20 groups, if that's something that the 20 groups want. But you all, you two have both been very actively involved in 20 groups in the past. And I think the main thing that we need to do, I'll say maybe, admittedly, maybe do a little bit better job, is to make sure that we're listening to those 20 groups, understanding what their expectations are, and then doing what we can to make sure that we can meet those expectations. So anything that's new on the horizon, Jeff, I'm not trying to dodge the question, but it should be coming from the wants and the needs and the desires of those 20 groups. You know, we've got to make sure sometimes associations can get into a position where we kind of live in the ivory tower. And it's nice for us to go and tell you what you need to be doing. And that's really not the way associations are built. We need to be listening to our members and meeting the needs of our members. And that is the exact same thing that we need to be doing in the 20 groups as well.

So, Jeff, my pushback to that is going to be my biggest qualm. And I have said this to you before, is.

Oh, here we go.

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Yeah, it sounds painful, but I'm there. I'll do it.

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Let's all listen. Let's have a committee for another committee to have a committee about. A committee that's going to talk about the Committee that just had a committee. And then we're going to discuss this topic and beat the horse until it's dead. And then once it's dead, we're going to beat it until it's just dust. So, Jeff, talk to me about the balance between let's get shit done and let's do something and let's talk about it and promise it and promise it and talk about it and talk about it. And then stuff never happens and it's status quo. And all of a sudden, I mean, this has been going on. Obviously, it's nothing new. This is just the way it's been operating from the beginning of 20 groups and composites and changing things and adding new things. And it's always like it's a 36 month project to ever add a new, I don't know, a button or anything. So how do we just get stuff done? Like, hey, it's a good idea, let's do it. Like, am I just, am I crazy?

Well, you're a little bit crazy, but that doesn't have anything to do with that question. So let me ask you this, Jeff. Are you talking specifically about 20 groups there? Are you talking about in totality, the association?

Well, I would say in totality, it's obviously a thing and that's probably my issue, that's my own fault from an association standpoint. But let's just talk 20 group because. And my argument is this, right? Like DPG and when they went in, it was like a dictatorship, right? And they say, hey, this is a business. What we say goes. And it needs to be done by Friday, right, Or by this quarter. This is what we're going to do. We're going to go paint this red, we're going to make this yellow, and we're going to have it done by Friday in the association and in 20 groups. It's like, well, we could do this or we should do that. Let's put, you know what I'm saying? So. Yes. Are we going to have one composite? Well, I don't know. We have these people's feelings to deal with and we have these people's feelings and it's not that easy. And we do this and we do that and it's like, well, if we decide that the best thing for the program is that we have integrated composites that are automatically pushed over, then can we financially do it? Yes. Okay, then let's do it. And yes, we're going to break some eggs. And yes, some people might be hurt because they no longer get this one Little piece of info they thought they had, but for the overall growth of the group, it's better off, you know, or. I don't know. There's just a million little teeny examples, and I don't need to get in the weeds. But is that. Can we, like, make. Can we just, like, do it?

Hey, well, aren't you on the. Aren't you on the committee?

When was the last time we had a committee meeting? Yes, I am on the 20 group committee, and we had a meeting, and then we had another meeting six months later. And then we haven't had a meeting in 24 months. And even the things that we said we were honored to do. I think we have an express group now.

We do. Yes.

Okay. That's exciting. All right.

What else do you want?

So, you know, Jeff Watson is complaining a lot right this second. And, you know, he does that every once in a while, but I do.

That all the time. I'm an internal critic for.

I say this 20 groups are great.

But I want you to tell me why. I just want you to put me at ease. Like, hey, things are happening, and under a Jeff Martin regime, we will move faster for the good of the groups, because we know that these things need to be fixed, and we need to fix them before we have more attrition. Because I go to a meeting and it's promised, I go to another meeting, it's like, well, by next meeting, this will be better. I go to that next meeting. Oh, by next meeting this will be better. And it's like.

Yeah, no. So let's. I'm gonna. I'm gonna probably answer it more in the totality answer as opposed to specifically the 20 groups. But. But I'll. I'll share with you so some conversations I've had with Scott Allen, the current president, and. And Gordy, the. The incoming president. We have currently about 19 committees, and the committees are. A number of the committees meet every month. And so what. What we. What's happened a little bit is that we're spending all of our time putting together an agenda, getting the agenda approved, scheduling the meeting, having the meeting, writing the notes for the meeting, and then turning around and scheduling the next meeting. And it's hard to get things done when you are basically. When you're spending that much time meeting, because then you can't go to your point. You can't go get the stuff done. Right. And so part. So part of what we're going to do is we're going to look at decreasing the number of committees that we have out there, it's probably going to look something more like seven. And we're going to decrease the number of times that we're meeting. But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't be listening more. What it really means, Jeff, is your expectations should change, that stuff should happen faster. Right, because we've had the meeting, we understand what it is that we need to be working on. And I'll also say, Jeff, most of those committees are. The actual charge of the committee is an advisory role to advise the board and then the board ultimately makes the decision. But if we have a clear five year strategic plan on the direction that we want to go, the staff, which is our responsibility, is to make that stuff happen. But if you feel like things aren't happening, sometimes what you end up doing is saying, well, we need to have more committee meetings. And I feel your pain in saying, God, all we do is have meetings and have meetings. And you're having so many meetings that you can't make something happen. So I will say this. Keep your expectation where it is as far as things should should be happening. Maybe temper your expectations just a little bit on the number of meetings that we're going to be having. Because meetings don't necessarily mean things are happening. It means that you're setting an agenda, you're scheduling a meeting, and that's time consuming. And what we're doing right now, we're spending a lot of resources at NIEDA on managing the meetings. And we got to get a little bit away from that and executing the, you know, the directives or whatever it is that's coming out of the meeting. And so I'll tell you, it's something that I'm passionate about. But you also, you guys know, you know, we've got. There's a little bit of a confidence issue right now, too. You know, we haven't had a lot of stability with the association certainly in the last couple of years. Luke alluded to this earlier, that we've had a lot of turnover within the association and that kind of erodes the confidence of the staff, you know, of members of the association. And so we've got to create some stability and start building that confidence so that someone feels like yourself, Jeff, that once we have a meeting, I probably don't need to meet with you for another quarter or another six months or whatever the case may be, because I believe you're going to be working on those things that we discussed that you should be working on.

Yeah, I 100% agree with that. I think that that's probably something coming from the private sector, being an entrepreneur and kind of like, hey, great, I love all the input. Yes, blue's great, but we're going with red. Make it happen, you know, like that kind of a thing. I get that. That doesn't really happen. Or, well, associations.

I think when you have strong leadership, you can do that. And I think Jeff Martin is a strong leader and. And can help us get past these.

Bureaucracies to that point, too. It's like, not to put the expectation on Jeff, but we all argue, like, if we had a presidential candidate that could actually fix that, had the guts to just fix the things that are wrong, whether it be Social Security, immigration, blah, blah, blah, tax reform, they'd be hated by everyone. Right? You would be hated by everyone. So, yes, if Jeff came in here just wielding a sword and was cutting up stuff and making all these changes, sure, I get it. You'd probably piss off a lot of people. To have the guts to do that, to know that in the end it's going to turn out better for the association as a whole. That's hard. That's a hard thing to do, you know, just not going to come in and just start cutting the burn.

Jeff goes.

He's got a hard job.

Well, I was going to say, I mean, at the end of the day, hey, look, man, I know exactly what I was signing up for. I'm super excited about it. I think they're unbelievable, unbelievable opportunities for us as an association. I'll tell you, you've got a board that's unbelievably committed to doing the things that we talked about, you know, Jeff, and you're right, they're not always easy decisions, but it's not a dictatorship. We know exactly what we signed up for. We represent the interest of the members of the association. And ultimately, I work for a board. You know, I've got 12 bosses who at any time one of them can raise their hand and go, I don't think that knucklehead knows what he's doing. Let's talk about whether we're going to keep that guy around or not. And so certainly there's some politics in there, Jeff, but. But that's the part to me that, you know, is like, I would say that's part of the challenge that I really enjoy. You know, you're not going to make everybody happy, but we're going to do everything we can to make the masses happy.

Yeah, see, I push back against that, too, Jeff. I hate that.

Quit pushing back. You're big.

I hate that you don't have a boss thing. Like, you've got advisors. The board are advisors. Like, Jeff Martin, you are the professional.

But they can fire him. Him, you know, but that's what's so stupid.

But they sh. Oh, man. I don't know. I guess that's my problem.

Oh, he's going down.

Just keep everybody happy. Anyways, what I reference it to is like a different board, like, like a private sector board that runs like, we advise them as like, hey, you're the professional. You know how to run this.

I think that's an entity. So.

And we're going to get common sense to guide you, but in the end, and we're just here to make sure you don't go off the rails.

But, Jeff.

Yeah, I totally agree with you, Jeff. And that's why I think it's responsible to have those conversations. And I will tell you, the NIDA board, you know, they get that 100%. There's a fine line between governance and management. Right. And I should not. I should. I should be in the role of advising the board when it comes to governance. But that's not my responsibility. That's the board's responsibility now. I've got to make sure that they're getting. Getting good information so that they can make good decisions. But then once that decision is made at a very broad level, it's my responsibility to execute that. And whenever I see. Whenever I feel like either party is kind of crossing the line there, I think that hopefully we're professional enough to be able to have that conversation with each other and say, that's kind of getting into governance, or, you know, that's getting a little bit into management. And that's the, you know, look, that's what nonprofit associations are about, and that's how they're. They're run effectively, is that people know what their role is inside that association.

And I think, Jeff Martin, you and I, we've been working on that thought process for the last three years that it's very possible that people who are on the board in the past didn't understand there was a line there. And association pays you good money to make sure you implement what's going on. I've got. I mean, I don't have any reason to doubt. You can't get it done.

Yeah, like, they should just be cc'd on everything. Like, hey, just cc. Jeff's gonna get done. Like, get out of his way. Let him do it. I'm just gonna CC you on this stuff. Like, let me know if you have a problem with it or, hey, by the way, this is something that I did or I'm going to do. Cool, cool. Like, that's like the kind of like you could run circles around these guys. So just let Jeff. Just let him go.

Just let Jeff go.

Probably. Probably a little bit more to it than that. Just like Martin.

Take the reins, guys.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, at the end of the day, I don't own the association. This is a. And I. And I certainly recognize that my argument.

Always was, we pay the CEO a good income, we should let them do their job. And. And I think that's where it is. Get out of the way, Jeff.

Anyways, man, I don't know if I'm making a better case for you, a worse case for you or what we're doing here.

Jeff Watson has been on a tangent this afternoon.

I don't know, listened to this episode this far long enough to even know.

What you're talking about. We had too many energy drinks on the golf course today. We apologize to Jeff Martin and to the people listening. Thank you. Thanks for being here, Jeff Martin.

Thank you very much, guys. I certainly appreciate it. Look forward to seeing you out at the convention. And yes, 30 days.

Get signed up, guys. Get signed up. Now. Be a good time.

Yeah, Very important. Thank you guys for having me. Really appreciate it.

Thank you.

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