#74 - Making The Most Of Tax Season with Bill Neylan

Hello. Welcome to the Independent Dealer Podcast. This week we have Bill Neyland with us. He is going to talk to us a little bit about Tax Max.

I tell you, Tax Max, a wonderful product. I used to use it years ago. Jeff's been using it, but he's been helping dealers for 25 years capture some of this elusive tax money that we call it just quick figures here, Jeff. The average advance last year was $5,500, which is a lot of money. And 90% of that money went out the first day. But here's the kicker. And within 48 hours of getting that $5,500, guess what happened to that money, Jeff?

It's gone.

It's gone.

So, guys, yeah, the consumer spends it all.

You need a way to capture it, and Bill's gonna tell us how to do it.

You are listening to the Independent Dealer Podcast with hosts Luke Godwin and Jeff Watson. Thank you so much for tuning in. Let's do this.

All right, Bill, thank you so much for joining us. Oh, man, we really, really appreciate your time. I know this is the time of year where you are just running around like a chicken with your head cut off, I imagine.

Yeah, we're rolling. Tax season's definitely underway.

It is. Get moving. So, Bill, tell us about that. You feel like we are in the tax season. I mean, it's not what it used to be 10 years ago, but maybe just kind of give us a little bit of a background on yourself, you know, how you got into where you're at now, what you're seeing as far as tax season and how that's changed.

Okay. Yeah. This is my 25th year. I'm the founder and owner of Tax Refund Services, Tax Max. My background, I graduated from the University of South Florida with an accounting degree. And then outside of college, I went into price, worked for Pricewaterhouse, which is now PricewaterhouseCoopers, and I worked in their cash division and just being a young entrepreneur, started the Tax Max program, specifically where consumer can use their refund towards the purchase of a vehicle.

I'm sorry.

Sorry about that, Bill.

Are y' all car specific? I just. I've always wondered that.

We are not car specific. We're in different verticals. We're in check cashing stores, pawn shops, mobile homes, and obviously automotive. Automotive is one of our stronger verticals.

Very good. And what year was it found at Taxpayers?

1995. So kind of what happened was, is that we started out with some brick and mortar stores like H and R Block across the Tampa area, and we kind of did a survey with our customers and say, well, what are you gonna do with your refund? And at least one third of the consumers said they were gonna do something automotive related. So that's kind of how we said, hmm. Well, if everyone's using their tax return to purchase a vehicle or getting caught up on their car payments or fix a vehicle, we also work with auto repair shops as well. So if they need a $2,000 transmission, a lot of times they're waiting on the tax return. So once we reached. Once we figured out what consumers are doing with their money, we reached out to some automotive dealers in the Tampa area, and that's really how it all started. Believe it or not, we went from one or two dealers in 1996. Now we're over 3,000 dealers in 2020.

That's amazing.

And is that the bulk of your clients or customers? Mostly the automotive space?

I'd say we're probably 65% automotive and then 35% insurance companies, check cashing stores, mobile home parks, stuff like that.

Yeah. That's pretty cool. And so are you a CPA?

I am not a CPA, but we do have CPAs on staff.

Okay. And I've used Yalls product before, and I'll have to say it's. It's a great product. I don't currently use it, and it wasn't. It was anything on y'. All.

I got.

Sometimes you just don't have enough people to handle what you need to handle. And I decided just to just deposit for a bit. And I know Jeff's using it now.

Well, it's funny you say that, actually. We've evolved through the years as well. We actually have products now that solve those problems. We have a VIP program where basically you, as the dealer, don't do anything. We do. We work with the customer pretty much and handle everything. So it's a lot easier for the dealer.

That's pretty neat because we were doing people's taxes.

Yeah. So Bill, in that. I mean, since 1995, 25 years. Am I doing my math right? Yes. How have you seen tax season evolve? You know, we all remember it. I mean, I don't know if we're just being nostalgic, but we thought it was this awesome time where from February to April, everyone had $4,000 in their pocket and they were buying up everything we had on the lot. It wasn't really like that. But what's it like now?

It has evolved a lot. In the 90s was really, you know, 90s and early 2000s was really big on the refund anticipation loan or the RALs. And that's where, you know, the customer can get 100% of the refund loan to them the same day. Well, then with the Great Recession in 2008, all those programs were squashed. So what happened was basically the consumers had to wait their full term to get the refund, which at that time was 10 to 21 days. So we kind of got innovative and we started working with dealers on doing what's called a fourth quarter program or even in a regular payment program. And the fourth quarter program is where basically dealers can estimate what the tax return is going to be for the consumer and then actually sell the car in October, November, December, using that refund that's coming in January, February. Then I'd say starting in 2016, we launched our irregular payment program. And what we did was we partnered with, I think, eight different DMS companies. And they actually, in their system, in their software allows for an irregular payment. And the definition of an irregular payment is a balloon payment in the middle of the contract. So let's say it's May and a dealer is selling a car. They can still utilize tax season by estimating the refund in May, putting a $1200 refund payment in the contract for February 28th, and then lowering the term by 20%. So that's been the new wave thing that's been going on. We actually just partnered recently with Ken Shilson, with the founder of the NABD and president of Subprime analytics, and he has kind of blessed the irregular payment program. And we're working on some analytics in the next 12 months to show how independent dealers can reduce their term by up to 20%.

That's interesting. Is that legal in every state?

It is not legal in every state. That's a great question. I'd say it's legal in every state. The states I know that we cannot do it is Pennsylvania and Michigan.

Okay. I know Michigan has.

Is that.

That's also specific to your retail installment or your installment contract? I know I've had some issues with dealer socket trying to get that irregular payment set up. And I've had to do a really funny workaround because they're claiming that the contract, the Walter Kluwer's contract we use does not allow it or something. And that's. I don't want to go down that road. But yeah, check your contracts too.

Yeah. And IDMS is actually one that we partner with and Finance Express and autostar. And it's to my Knowledge that it was working. So I'll have to take this off, take that offline and work with them on that.

Yeah, somebody, Luke, might know a contact over there, because someone's got to get that place figured out. But anyways, I'd love for it to work and not have to do a workaround, which I do for 90 days, I use them for. But yeah, it's great to get those irregular payments. And in full disclosure, I've used tax max for, I don't know, four or five, six years. It's great. I recommend getting that tax money now because, Bill, I guess what I wanted to drive at is nowadays, where does that tax return going? I mean, if people are already pre spending it, they're already getting it. I mean, it's gone before they actually get it. We're kind of back to those, aren't we?

Yeah, you're absolutely correct. Our research shows that the customer will spend their entire refund in 24 to 48 hours.

And they usually still am. 24 to 48 hours, it's gone.

It's gone. Like they're broke.

All right. I want to really understand that the second it hits their bank account, I mean, I know that we're watching at 4:00 or 2:00 clock or whatever when that thing funds within 48 hours. Gone.

It's gone. It's all gone. And the average refund last year was $5,500. So we're not talking like two or $3,000.

You think Luke can do that on like a weekend in Florida?

Oh, I can do it, buddy. But no, I think the statistic I heard years ago and just a couple years ago was 90% of people spend their tax refund within 48 hours. Yeah, the entire thing. And it's just.

And they start spending it in December. They trip over Christmas. It all starts with Christmas. So, you know, any credit they have or any money they can borrow from mom and dad or any money that they can, you know, and dumb enough, they pawn. They do title pawn. They do all kinds of things to get access to cash. They miss their regular car payment. They're behind with their landlords, so they're really in the hole. So come, Jen. And they know that January's right around the corner. So they just put themselves in the hole. They're behind on cell phone, anything possible. And when that money comes, they're paying off all these bills because they've used that money for other things.

You know, that's funny. That puts two. That it connects two dots for Me and maybe you've got stats on this bill, but I do not feel like I am as far ahead at this point this year as I was last year as far as deferred downs and having people on the fourth quarter program where I estimate their taxes and I defer a portion. And I'm wondering if that's because my customers, they already know that their tax return is earmarked for rent and the credit card and the Walmart bill and everything else. They know they can't give me any of that tax return. They've already spent it.

And comment to that though when people need a car, they kind of need a car. So I was asked maybe a year ago something about that and kind of the same comment that you had mentioned, it's that even though customers earmark their tax return to purchase a vehicle, but let's say it's May, it doesn't really matter, I guess if their car breaks down, their car breaks down or if their car gets repoed, their car gets repoed and they just need a car when they need a car. And unfortunately that need doesn't revolve around the calendar. So we're seeing a strong year. Our filings so far, it's really early, are up 10%. So we're definitely seeing a long, a huge rush for this money, for these customers are hungry for this money.

Can you speak to what is being advertised on TV right now with the it looks like we're almost going back to the anticipation loan. What is going on there and what can dealers expect from that?

That's actually a great question. I'm glad you brought that up. So kind of picking up from the timeline that we talked about the Great Recession in 2008. Well, I'd say starting weirdly enough, right before Trump was elected or right as Trump was elected, there was a lot of deregulation. Therefore the bank started loaning against tax refunds again. So now it's called instead of a refund anticipation loan, it's called a refund advance and it kind of acts the same way. A little different though is to appease to the regulators is they have a zero interest product where the customer can get advance in their tax return with paying no interest charges. The other really cool and interesting thing too is that if the ira, it's a non recourse loan. So if the IRS doesn't pay out the refund and the bank doesn't get paid back the advance, the bank cannot and does not go after the customer and cannot and does not go after the Dealer as well.

So this is going to be very, very, very few people who qualify for this advance, correct?

No, actually, it's not based on credit. It's based on their filing histories. The underwriter is Metabank, and Metabank is the largest bank for the unbanked customer. So they've got 30 years worth of data, and right now, our last year approval percentage was 82%, and right now we're running about 86% approval percentage. So you'd have somebody with terrible credit owes everybody. But as long as they get their refunds paid out every year, then there's a good chance they'll get a refund advance and they can get up to $6,000 the same day.

Wow.

Yeah. It's a very powerful product.

And it is something y' all are doing as well.

It's something we're doing. H and R Block is only doing 3,000. I believe Jackson Hewitt's doing 3,250.

Yep.

And we're doing 6,000. TurboTax can do zero. So that's why anyone who partners with us or, you know, another tax partner using a strong bank can get up to $6,000. Like I said, TurboTax can't access this money quick, so they will have to wait till the end of February. So that's why there really is a strong demand for consumers who want to put their tax refund to work and who want a car. If a dealership is offering some type of tax promotion, they're seeing a lot of traffic.

What do you. So for us who do not have tax max right now, where do you see the money hitting this year? You know, we can. They can file now, but what date are we gonna start actually having the money? Or do you have. Do you have knowledge of that?

Yes. So because of the PATH act, and this is why tax season keeps changing and keeps evolving, in 2015, it's either 15 or 16. The United States Congress passed the PATH act, and basically, it's protections against identity theft. And by definition, the IRS cannot process a tax return with refundable credits, such as the Additional Child Tax Credit credit, the Earned Income Credit. They cannot be processed until after February 15th. So February 16th, the IRS starts processing those returns. They quote, 10 days. So we're looking at the 26th and 27th for all the money to hit the street.

February 26th or 7.

Correct.

Okay. And if you're a Tax Max customer, that's when the money would start flowing into your account.

Actually, if you're a Tax Max customer, we had dealers starting printing checks up to $6,000 on January 2nd because y'.

All are partnered with the Metabank thing.

Okay, that's very interesting.

Yeah, very interesting. Yeah.

We did about 100 returns yesterday and like I said, 85% or 85, 86% were approved.

Okay. And for someone who has a previous good relationships with IRS and their refunds get, they don't get held up or anything like that, that really doesn't change from year to year for those customers.

Right?

Okay.

It does not.

Okay. Now my question is this. So we can wait until the 26th and 27th of February and the cash is on the ground and then we have a 48 hour mad dash to get our hands on it, or we do the refund advance program. And if we're not signed up with Tax Max, these people who go through H and R Block or one of these other filers and they get their refund advance, that's an opportunity. Right. We can collect some of that money through debit or credit card. Right. Because they've been advanced from their provider. Now, what about the third option, which is, is there any safety in people who maybe they filed with H and R Block? And I've had this happen is why I ask. They file with H and R Block, they don't do the refund advance, but they bring me their filings and say, hey, look, see here, I filed with H and R Block. They said I'm getting six grand back. Will you sell me a car and defer my down payment for me?

Now, I would call that dangerous because once again, no. As we talked about, the consumer is going to spend the entire refund in 24 to 48 hours. The advantage of the Tax Max program or even having a different, you know, any tax provider is that the money goes to the dealer first. So when a file is filed through Tax Max, a dealer is pretty much 99% guaranteed. They're getting their money when through H and R Block. And if you let that car go, well, now the customer's got the car and they're driving and then that money hits their hands in two months, there really is not that much of an incentive for the customer to come back and make that payment because they already.

Have the car, especially when they're sick of it or it starts acting up.

Right. And also too, you know, they've spent money at best. You know, they keep tripping over the holidays. You've got Christmas, then they trip over the super bowl, which that's the largest day that people buy big screen TVs. So they can say, well, you know what, I got this car on January 20th because they let me file my taxes at H and R Block and I'm getting a $5,000 refund. So now the customer has the car. Now February the second, like, wow, I can get a $3,000 TV delivered to my house for free. Well, I'll just do that instead of making that car payment. Or what happens too is that the customer will get their money in February 26th, 27th, and just tell the dealer, hey, there's an issue. My return, it's being held up for three months. And then the dealer has no way to verify that. So there's a lot of reasons. Yep, yep.

Bill, why do we see waves of money? It seems like in the last several years we'll have this huge four day rush of people getting money and then you have a dead spot and then it happens again. What's going on there?

That's the definition of the Path act, basically. So what happens is that money is all released at once. Last year, 90% of all the refunds were released on February 26th, I believe. And then the last two weeks, the other 10% kind of trickle out. So if you imagine that 90% of your entire US population's refunds released in one day, you can't sell two or three months worth of cars in one day. You want to try, but it's not physically possible.

That's interesting. It's a headache. I go back to the old days to where have documentation of this. I think we were, we sold the first car and this was probably in the late 90s with a actual tax check on like January 20th.

Yeah.

And it would last, you know, until the end of February. And it was, you know, three customers one day, four customers the next day, you know, none the next day. But then one and two. And it wasn't this big rush. And it's really, it makes it hard on dealers to take advantage. So I know, you know, using tax max, you can sure help that.

Yeah, back in the day it was manageable because like you said, as people filed, the money came out 10 days later. Now it doesn't matter if you file On January the second or February 15th, all that money still comes out on the same day. That's the problem. So that's why it's really important if you have a refunded, you know, partner with a tax provider to do the refund advance. And then as people come in and file, you can get money like you used to in the 90s. It's just done a little differently. And then same thing. If you do a fourth quarter program or the irregular payment program, you have people coming back to file and all that money starts printing in their printer. Now the one also nice thing too is as you mentioned earlier, that all the money gets dumped and you're chasing that money all over your city. Well, if you use Tax Max or a different provider, all that money prints in your printer. You don't have to chase these people around. So you just have one busy day. Maybe printing a million dollars worth of checks. Like that's. It's a bad day, but it's not that bad.

I think I had that last year. One of my, I don't know, my boast, my ego post was had about, I don't know, 10 or 15 checks that I had just printed. And that's a good day. You know, it was like 30 or 40 grand that I may not have captured otherwise.

Absolutely correct. And you'd have to chase these people around. It just printed in your printer. That's what's cool, because the control is with you. So instead of you chasing these customers and say, hey, I know you got your tax money or did you get it making all these phone calls, you print all the checks in your printer. Now the consumers are lined up to get their money from you versus you lined up to get the money from them. So it's kind of, it reverses the control factor, which is really nice.

Yeah, we noticed that. I mean, it was nice when we did it. I think we did it two or three years and we were printing the checks and the customers were coming to see us. And it's really good program, it's easy to use. I don't know why we stopped doing it. We'll probably start back on it.

I like the program.

Yeah, maybe we can speak to that just a little bit. Is it too late? I mean, this will probably air on the 23rd or the 18th or something of January. Can dealers get set up and get running with Taxmax or a similar provider?

Yeah, with us. They can literally go to our website@taxmax.com and click sign up now. And it's a two to three minute signup process. They enter their credit card to pay for the product and then they get their user ID and password on the spot so they can actually do deals right then and there on the spot. Now let's say they get a refund advance approved the same day. We will FedEx them checks. So there might be one or two day delay to actually get their money. To that customer. But at least they'll know the money's in the queue ready for them to print. But I'd say that it's too late. Once you get to February, as long as you're in January, we can get a dealer signed up. We signed up 30 dealers yesterday. So by nature, dealerships are late. They're always in a rush.

Hey, Bill.

What?

I know when I did it, I advertised, hey, why pay someone else to do your taxes? We'll do it for you, not charge you. What is the cost for the consumer to file taxes through you? And what do you see dealers doing? Charging the customer or what do you see going on?

That's a great question. We charged about $149 to file a tax return that's about 50% cheaper than H and R Block and Jackson Hewitt. There is a bank fee that allows the bank to advance the money, but that's the same pretty much across all providers. What a lot of dealers are doing, we're seeing all across the gamut. Some will say, hey, we'll match your refund up to $1,000. Or we'll even do your taxes for free and match your refund up to $500. There's all types of aggressive programs out there. Some dealerships will just say, hey, file your taxes here. Drive home today. So it's a matter of how creative. We even have franchise dealers doing the same thing. We'll match a refund or up to $2,000. Now granted, their sticker prices are 20 and 30 thousand dollars. So we work with dealers one on one. So if they say, look, I really don't know what I want. Some dealers are focused on moving more inventory. Some dealerships will say, look, I don't really want to move more inventory, but I want to get more of a down payment so we can work with them on different campaigns as well.

So what do you see when it comes to.

And we.

If you're in the buy here, pay here industry, you have this problem, you see, you know, starting because you were talking about Christmas, taking money and this, that and other. What do you see dealers doing or best practice for the ones who are trying to use tax max also to catch those customers up that have fallen behind throughout the year.

That's another great question. I'm glad you brought that up. A lot of buy here pay here dealers will start reaching out to their past due accounts in the beginning of January. Say, hey, Mr. Jones, I know, I've been calling, calling, calling. You want to pay, you just don't have the means to pay. A lot of those are saying, hey, bring me your W2 and we will do your taxes for free and get you caught up and keep you riding in that car. So especially people who are behind a lot of dealers that say at least 50% or more pick up the freight for that customer because they want to just get them current. The last thing they want to do is repo this car when they know they have a customer getting $8,000 refund coming.

Oh, for sure. I mean, yeah, for sure. What I'm interested in auto repair side, because we, you know, we have a customer pay shop here. And, you know, I wasn't even thinking about it until you said that. What are, you know, how many auto repair shops are doing this? Is it just dealers? You know, how do you advertise that?

How does it work? Now, that's a great question. Especially if you're a buy, I'll do it in kind of two different ways. If you're a buy here, pay here, dealer, and it doesn't matter when you have to make that repair. A lot of dealers, obviously, if they don't fix the car, the consumer stops paying. So a lot of dealers will say, and the best practices for this is, let's say it's May. We'll say, you know what? I will fix your car, set them up on a payment plan, whether it's $5 a week, $10 a month, whatever. But they'll have a balloon payment of February 27, saying, Look, I'll agree to take care of this car, but you need to pay off the balance with your tax return in February. They'll say, mister, the customer, is that something you're willing to do? The customer will say, absolutely. And then they'll go ahead and do that. We have what's called a promise to Pay with your W2 for collections and a promise to pay with your W2 for repairs as well. Now, on the. As far as now, if you're just a repair shop alone, not selling cars, they will just advertise, hey, file your taxes here, get your car fixed today.

That's. That's neat. And can you do that in the fourth quarter as well? Or is that a, you know, a first quarter type situation?

That's pretty much a first quarter situation. Some auto repair shops will say, hey, in the fourth quarter, we'll estimate your W2. We'll go ahead, we'll order your parts, we'll get everything teed up. That way, when you bring us your W2, we'll start the repair the same day. So they can, they kind of can do it a little bit.

When you file the first quarter program, you're guaranteed to get the money because that's a tax filing. You've already got all their forms. The fourth quarter program, it's a little more risky. They still have to bring you back the W2s and as a repair facility, you've already sent the car on the road, repaired. You really don't have much to hang over their head. You don't. Whereas with the dealership, if they decide to not follow through and it's an irregular payment, it's a default in their contract. If it's a straight up deferred down, I can decide whether I want to add that back into their loan or correct.

You have some cloud.

One thing we've done to Luke is we've actually sent out a mailer as a offering a 20% discount on all side notes. So if you're a dealership that does side notes for repairs, I just said, hey, file your taxes with us, I'll give you a 20% discount on your side note to get you caught, paid off current. So good idea.

Do you build a. Y' all have an in house marketing team that helps dealers market this program or how does that work?

We do, we have a marketing staff and what we usually recommend is any TV commercials or any type of advertising is ran. But you know, just run it by us so we can make sure that one, it's compliant and number two, that it conveys the correct and the right message. Sometimes we'll have a dealer say, look, I'm signing up for your program and I don't know where to start. And then once again, usually we'll ask some questions. Well, what is your goal out of this program? Is it more traffic, sell more cars? Is it collect bigger down payments and then we'll gear the message towards that individual dealer.

That's a lot of help because, you know, I think the biggest problem some dealers have is figuring out how to market things the right way and the legal way.

Yeah, I mean if they go to a marketing company, they may charge 5, $6,000 for that advice where we do that for free.

Very cool. What you got, Jeff?

I was just thinking to wrap it up, Bill, tell us a little bit. I know again, in disclosure, I've used tax max for many, many years. I signed up with the buy here, pay here auto trader side. I know you guys have got a relationship, maybe a quick sales pitch on that. What's going on with the relationship with Auto trader. And how is that helpful to us Buy here pay here dealers?

Yeah, with the, the partnership with autotrader, which is really cool, is that they as well saw that the traction that the irregular payment was getting. And whether it's January, February tax time, or whether it's May and June in the summer, consumers still want to put their future tax return to work. So for example, if the refund is $8,000 and they pledge $1,000 in May, there's a good chance the dealer is going to get paid because at eight grand, the customer can afford to pay you $1,000 as well as once you said it's written into the contract. So with autotrader on their buy here pay here center, they've actually included a filter now where they can, the customer can say, hey, yes, I'm looking for a car or a truck and yes, I do want to pledge part of my tax return. And any dealers who are hooked up with us automatically get the autotrader subscription. Now get those leads of consumers wanting to purchase a vehicle. The really cool thing about the autotrader product, which is nice, is that they have a dashboard that comes with it. And it tells you exactly where your custom customers are coming from. The demographics, male, female, whether they're searching by a computer, a cell phone or iPad, it tells you the most searched car it will actually your inventory is actually listed. And one thing learning with this certain other products, you're only allowed to list x amount of cars. With autotrader you can list, there's no fee to list all these cars. So whether it's one car or we have one dealer has 900 cars on their little profile. Each car will have a number that the dealer can see will see how many times a consumer clicked on that vehicle and is looking at that vehicle. So for example, if you see a car that's been clicked on 48 times and it hasn't sold, then that it tells the dealer, hey, we need to look at this vehicle. And it's either priced wrong, the pictures are bad. So it helps the dealer sell more units as well as watch out for what units are getting stale and helps them be aggressive to keep it from not getting stale and moving that vehicle. So there's a lot of benefits and a lot of cool things. Another thing the dashboard will tell them is how many consumers have hit their site. And we're seeing the average buy here pay here site getting 100 to 200 unique customers looking at their inventory per month.

That's interesting. Is this nationwide autotrader Roll it out nationwide.

This is Nationwide. Yes, we just rolled it out in October. So we're still gearing up. Our goal in the next three years is to have over a million cars listed on this site.

It's so funny. I asked Jeff because Jeff was on the phone with Autotrader before we started this interview. I said, what in the world are you doing dealing with Autotrader? But after hearing what you're saying, that sounds like it's a no brainer.

It is a no brainer. And once again, it's, it's matching consumers with dealers who have the car that they want as well as matching consumers with dealers who are utilizing the Tax Max program to help consumers shrink their term by 20%. So it's a win for the customer because now instead of paying 40, 40 months or paying 32 months, so the consumer saving money and the dealer saving money because they don't have all this money on the street, they're collecting it faster.

And your repo, your repossession rate will go down the shorter your term is also. So it should be a good, that's a good program.

Yeah. And we're working with Ken Shilson on actually getting some exact data. So, for example, you know, what we hope to see is that the average buy here Pay here terms 40 months and they know the repo rate is 10%. Well, with an irregular payment, we're hoping that the terms reduce to 32 months, the repo rate drops to 2%. So we're looking at all this stuff. So the cash and deal days in the street, all the numbers preliminary are looking really good. So it's going to take us about a year. And Ken wants to make sure he has got the biggest pool of data possible to make sure that we can once again give the independent buy here pay here dealer the real picture and the right way to do business for the future.

That's great, Bill. We really appreciate you here today. Jeff, you got anything else?

No. Anything else, Bill? Tell us. I mean, how can we get a hold of you people that either want more information about taxes season or information about Tax Max itself? How do we, how do we contact you or your team?

Yeah, they can go to taxmax.com and there's a contact us button or they can call us toll free at 866-642-4107 and then any of our customer service and sales staff will be willing to have that conversation about once again, what would their goals want to be? Do they want to increase sales? They want to increase their down payments? Do they need help with collections? Do they need a conversation with their DMS and give them the right contact to get the irregular payments working? So do they need some marketing advice? We're willing to talk with these dealers at no charge and see if we can get them signed up or at least point them in the right direction. We will always do what's best for the dealer. We're not just going to take their money if their product is not going to work for them.

The one thing I wanted to throw in real quick, I forgot to mention, it's not hard. So when he says you can actually sign up today and start filing the filings, not hard. You don't have to be a CPA to have a customer come in and sit down in front of you and file their taxes. You literally just collect their W2s, their Social Security cards, and you enter the boxes into the Tax Max website.

Right.

And then the Tax Max professionals verify that everything's accurate.

And just to be clear that the dealer is not doing any of the filing, there's no liability on them. They're not signing anything, their name's not on anything. Basically we call like a credit application. They submit all the information to us here at Taxmax and then we formally file the tax return into a different professional system. The online system is a system that we wrote. It's not an off the shelf program. It's specifically geared and programmed specific for the retail establishment, such as a car dealership.

Yeah, you're just collecting documents like you would with any third, any provider. You're just, you're filling out the boxes. It's super easy. But Bill, thank you. Thank you so much for your time today. We really appreciate it. A lot of great, great information and hopefully all our dealers are going to learn we're going to be more profitable and have a better tax season.

Yeah, I appreciate your time. And we'll be at the NIDA conference in June, so stop by our booth especially you guys stop by and see us and we'll buy a drink.

Sounds great, Bill.

Thanks, Bill.

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