#95 - Who's Going To Pay For This w/ Cecilla Fournil

Hey, everyone, and welcome to the Independent Dealer Podcast. Shaking it up a bit today, Jeff. I'm doing the intro and then you can talk. So a good friend of mine, Cecilia Fornell from Vista Insurance Group, is really going to nail down Insurance World for us, for us dealers. What'd you think about it, Jeff?

Oh, man, I hope I asked so many questions. I hope it makes some sense. Guys, we cover everything from types of coverages you need to have to holes in your coverage to what constitutes your premium, and just a ton of great information. I feel like it's something the dealers, we don't quite understand because it's such a confusing, complex product, but Cecilia breaks it down really well for us.

Yes, she does. And she's one of the most experienced agents in the country at this. So sit back, relax, and listen what she's got to say.

You are listening to the Independent Dealer Podcast with hosts Luke Godwin and Jeff Watson. Thank you so much for tuning in. Let's it do.

All right, Cecilia, give us real quick just your background. Where do you fit in this crazy auto industry that we're in?

Absolutely. So we are a agency based out of north and South Carolina, but we are part of a $8 billion buying network that is nationally based, licensed in about 25 states. And my 20 plus creators career has got me into the garage insurance world. And it is a very interesting policy, probably one of the most complicated ones out there. And we are the exclusive agency for the Carolinas Independent Auto Dealers Association.

So how many car dealers do you cover, Cecilia?

In north and South Carolina, we have over a thousand used car dealers we cover.

Wow, that's amazing.

You've seen it all, huh?

You know, I am not gonna say that I am always surprised every week it seems. And then obviously this, you know, this day and age thieves are thinking of new and different ways of stealing cars and money from people. So that's interesting.

Can we set the context? Sorry, Luke. Insurance is state specific, so. So when we're talking about South Carolina, North Carolina, how specific is it? So the dealers that listening to this conversation will try to keep it pretty broad, I imagine, right? To try to cover all states. But are there specifics to states?

Yeah. So really all insurance has two parts to it. One is there is a standard platform for all insurance across all states. Okay. So your garage policy, your homeowners policy, your auto policy, all have a basic standard platform. From there, the state creates laws and then the insurance company has to conform to it. Okay, so it may be state specific, but that's really Neither here nor there, how coverage works per se.

Okay, cool, cool, cool.

So let's get a big overview. And when we talk about a car dealers insurance and we talk about garage liability, can you kind of just give us a big overview on what that policy is and what it looks like for a layman's term?

Sure. So a garage policy is basically a automobile policy, a general liability policy, a physical damage policy and a professional liability policy all wrapped into one. And this is the number one conversation we try to have all of our clients to get them to understand this is not like buying auto insurance. You're buying way more than that. And it is going to cover your entire entity and it's going to cover all your vehicles, whether for sale or with a dealer tag on it or a regular tag on it, as long as the dealership owns it or the owner owns it. And it's going to cover all employees or customers, contractors that you use. So it is a really broad, scary policy that has a lot of moving parts, but that's kind of it in a nutshell.

So this is a policy that covers me if I wreck a car, Right? It's a, it's a policy that covers me if I get sued because of a liability issue with a car. Correct?

Correct.

And also if like an E and O policy also. Is that correct?

Yeah, absolutely. So different states have different laws as to how finance companies are handled, whether you have to have a separate corporation or not. But within that garage policy, you're going to see a truth in lending professional liability, a federal odometer professional liability, and a couple of other professional liability add ons. But those are the two big ones that you'll see.

So what as a car dealer affects the rate I'm paying other than the amount of inventory I carry?

Right. So you have, and this is the part that I think everyone gets really frustrated. Different carriers rate policies differently. So you will have some carriers that will rate the liability portion of the policy based on number of people and whether they're full time or part time and what their jobs are. And then you'll have other carriers that rate based on true payroll numbers and what their jobs are. So to take one of the big boys out there in garage auto owners, they have both ways. And most agents do not do a good job of explaining the way that it's being rated so that someone understands when they hire somebody new or fire someone, they need to let us know as it will directly impact your premium.

Yeah, I think, Jeff, you've dealt with.

That right now, right Maybe I should ask that. Cecilia, do you represent auto owners or how, how freely can I talk?

I do not, I do not represent auto owners. Well, we have access to them, so.

I don't want to say anything bad.

But yeah, my network, we, we have them. Yeah.

Yeah. So I've used them for 10 years, never had a claim. But of course we get the annual audit from auto owners and this last year they wanted essentially doubled my premium from what they quoted me to the audit period. They wanted to double. I mean the audit came down, was like blown away. And so I've dealt with my agent and I said this is ridiculous. And we fought some stuff. Apparently the audit was calculating my employees wrong because it thought that every employee that was ever on my payroll was a full time employee for the entire year, I guess. So it showed I had like 30 employees and so they wanted to. And so I had to go and spell it out to him.

Now.

This guy was here for six months and then he left. This guy was here for six months and so super, super frustrating stuff. But, but I understand how that kind of can factor in.

Well, and there are, you know, you, you're doing a podcast and I don't like to give away too many secrets, but I think this is one that I would love for my industry to do a better job and Luke has experiences with us, is that the agent for any garage policy has to be proactive. Your business is ever changing and if you do not touch base with, with your client quarterly, and I mean it, then you're going to do a disservice and run into what you just ran into. Because I know you would have loved for your agent to have called you three months in and said, hey, how's your headcount looking? And let's start tracking that.

Yeah.

And then you wouldn't have been surprised by something end of the year that got super frustrating.

Well, and it would have been very helpful to, I mean, obviously I put it back on him to fight this audit, which was nice. And he handled that. And, and it was a long, drawn out process of. And it, the audit went to some collections company and I got a letter from a collections company. It was just the craziest thing in.

The world, but it definitely got me avoided. Yep. All that could have been avoided.

Now the garage liability, it doesn't cover my, my, my building and all that stuff, does it, Cecilia?

No. No. So the garage liability policy is. The only physical damage coverage in there is for the vehicles themselves. You will see, depending on the state, you will See some carriers that can package the property side together. Auto owners is one of them. AmTrust is another. Zurich Universal is another. And then there are a few more that will package it together. But property insurance, building content, sign coverage, fence cover coverage, all of that has to be on a property policy. That's the only way to get that coverage.

Yeah.

So maybe.

I think that's very important.

Yeah, yeah. The difference between your garage keeper now physical property coverage is another one. What other types of coverages do we need to be aware of?

Sure.

No, there's like I have guys that have these huge umbrella policies, you know, two or three million dollar umbrella policies and data breach and all this weird stuff. Are there important stuff and is there junk?

Sure. So I'm gonna hit on one word you just used, which is garage keepers. I want to be real clear on that because garage keepers only is only a coverage that repair shops need. So when you're talking about a dealer policy, you're only talking. You're talking about a garage policy. When you mention garage keepers, that is a specific physical damage coverage for repair shops or towing companies. So don't use that word unless you are like Luke. Yeah, unless you're like Luke who's got a separate repair business and he. And it makes sense. Garage keeper. You're keeping someone's vehicle.

Okay.

Right.

And so that's separate from my car lot.

That is a. Correct. That is called dealers open lot. That is a separate coverage. You'll see it line items. So. Yep. So I would tell you there are definitely some biggies that everybody, any size dealership should consider. Obviously the garage liability policy and all that comes with it. A workers compensation policy. And I can tell a crazy story if you want to hear it on that. And yeah, Luke knows this one. And employment practices, liability and cyber policies should be considered. Everybody's gone to a computer system. Cyber is huge. Your server can be hijacked and it will help pay for that. Employment practices, liability deals with hiring and firing people. And if you were sued for hostile work environment, improper firing, you know those scenarios. Those are. Attorneys are loving those lawsuits right now. But workers comp is the main one I get a lot of pushback on from our guys writing your garage liability policy. We obviously know how many people that you have, whether they're your eyes W2 or 1099. So employee or subcontractor, we know that the count. And basically every state has a three to four person rule that if you have three or four people, you must carry workers compensation. And I get the answer of all my people are 1099. Well that doesn't matter. Workers comp. Are you paying them to do work for you? Yes. Then they must be included. And my crazy workers comp story is a repair that was being done at my house where a gentleman was basically a foot and a half on a ladder on the first day of construction and ended up we found out later had a heart attack and fell head forward into the corner of a room and snapped his neck and died in my house.

Oh my goodness.

And yep. And luckily I knew that that contractor had workers compared to that can happen anywhere. And if you don't have it doesn't mean you're not going to be sued.

Yeah.

Attorney.

In that situation they're at your house. So it's probably a little different. But if we have contractors that are truly independent contractors coming on our property to do work we need to be named on their policy. Is that right? Or have a certificate.

You should always ask no matter whoever's coming onto your property you should ask for a certificate of insurance. And if you want to be extra careful you ask to be listed as additional insured. And that will if the contractor let's say and I'll great example is putting up a new sign for you is painting the building and the spray gets to your next door neighbor's property. Everybody gets sued but that contractor's policy will defend you and now you won't have to access your liability.

Yes. And I would think people if you have independent contractors that are regularly doing work for you on your property, you know with people are outsourcing their details or their bodywork or if they're subbing out a little repair shop one of their bays like be aware of those. Cause those are the ones that are. Yeah, you've got some exposure.

Absolutely.

Now you mentioned errors terrorism. I'm thinking of a couple of these. Any other types of writer they call riders?

No. All those workers compensation employment practices, cyber. Those are all separate policies.

Okay.

You're not, you're not adding that onto your garage policy. There's a rule of thumb in insurance that and not everybody does this but if you start lumping too many things on the one policy that means all your claims are going to affect everything. So you don't, you don't want that. There is no such thing as multi policy discounts and commercial insurance. It does not exist. There are a couple of carriers that make you think that it exists. Auto owners again being one of them and a couple of others. But all they're doing is just Reducing their premium slightly to try to get the rest of your business. And you could get that as an agent. Yeah, you get that as an agent already.

It would also take your liability limits too.

Right.

If. If you had all these on one thing and all of a sudden you get sued for four or five things in one year, it could eat up your limits. Correct, Cecilia?

Correct. Yeah.

So are you saying I should have my. My open lot with one company and my errors and admission and workers comp with another company?

No, the open lot and the liability, that's all one garage form.

Oh, yeah.

The errors and emotions. Yeah. There's an emissions also on the same form.

Okay.

I'm talking about the workers compensation property cyber.

Those should be separate.

Yeah, those are all separate. Yep. So can we policies.

Can we run through what an umbrella policy is real quick? If people out there don't understand that.

Yep. So garage auto dealers especially there was a carrier universal that caused this shift about right in the beginning of my career about 20 years ago. And what they were doing is they took an umbrella coverage, which I love, and morphed it into almost a frontline coverage. So a commercial umbrella for just about any business is an additional limit of coverage starting at a million dollars over all of your other policies from a liability perspective. So imagine an umbrella that you hold over your head and it is above you. It will. It is there for the catastrophic stuff. So that's what an umbrella is. It does not give you truly any additional coverage. And I'm speaking from a commercial perspective. Okay. I'm not talking personal lines commercial perspective. All it does is an extension of the current liability that you have for a million or 2 million or 5 million, whatever you choose. And no, there is no right number. You getting an umbrella you're already head and shoulders above, in my opinion. I can't say that to me they're inexpensive, Luke. But, you know, I would say at a minimum, they start at $700. But it's gonna be different for everybody.

Annually.

Think about it. If you're. Annually, if you are a two person mom and pop shop, or if you're a 20 person shop, obviously your premiums are gonna be different on your base policy. The umbrella is based off of your base premium. Following me.

Yep.

So everybody's umbrella is going to be different. And again, that's kind of my one little thing that always kind of cracks me up, y'. All. Every single car dealer is different. The number of dealer tags you have, the number of employees you have where you are. Coastal interior, you know, Tornado prone. Everybody's different.

Let's get, let's get into that in a second. But let me touch on one thing that I had a question on. When you're saying commercial umbrella. Now, if we take that a step further, us as dealers, is there any need for us to have a personal umbrella or is there any way that any of these lawsuits could reach into our personal home, our personal business, our other LLCs, our other things? I always wonder about that when I'm, when I'm taking a youth group in a car of mine that has a dealer tag on it, you know, or my wife is driving around the neighborhood, kids, where is that there any use for a.

Sure.

Personal umbrella?

Yeah. So I'll use your example and I have to do this disclaimer. I am not an attorney, I'm just an insurance agent.

We aren't either. Yes.

Exactly. I could tell you how the insurance policies are going to respond. I do some expert work, so I'm pretty knowledgeable on all this. But your youth group conversation, you know, question claim scenario, if you are in a dealer owned vehicle, but you're obviously not on dealer business, what could happen? Well, what could and more than likely would happen is everybody's going to get sued. So you personally are going to get sued. And let's do the. You hit the back of a school bus, right? You get, you're going to get sued and the dealership will be sued. So both your personal policy and your commercial policy will be affected. And by personal you mean your audit.

Personal.

You personally. So if you have an umbrella policy, okay, if it has been written, if your personal umbrella, if it has been written correctly. Because not all personal umbrella companies will cover dealers and dealer vehicles. On, on. Correct. On private, you know, personal business. But if it's been written correctly, your personal umbrella will react and defend you if your umbrella is not written correctly. No, because there is a definition within an umbrella that all business related acts are excluded and a lot of carriers will argue you were in a business vehicle, therefore it is not covered. So it's scary. No, insurance is not a commodity. It just isn't. So a personal umbrella policy is, you being the dad, you know, the church guy, you know, whatever, you're going to get a jug of milk even though you're in that dealer car. Your personal umbrella is what we're talking about. That's the big main thing you need to have.

All right, so, Jeff, we briefly talked about a tornado. So kind of what spurred our conversation about this and getting an insurance person to speak on this was the accident that happened. Not accident, but a natural disaster act of God that happened in Manheim, Nashville. And so. So yeah, we've got a quick question. If I own cars and they're sitting wherever. Okay. But in the course of my business, not just sitting somewhere, because. Because I left them there, but if they're sitting at an auction that I just bought, it comes through and takes out five cars I just bought that day, am I covered? Is my insurance going to cover that or is the place that's sitting going to cover that?

No, your insurance should be primary. I give that. I give a caveat to that. But let me explain why I say it should be primary. Your insurance is there because the regulations of the state that you're in, and basically all states have this regulation says that if a vehicle is owned by a dealer, it must be covered by a dealer. So therefore, your policy is primary and by own. That doesn't mean.

Yep.

Sorry. By own you mean. I think dealers are confused. Like, you don't physical have possession of it. The title hasn't been transferred. It means that hammer dropped. And yeah, when it came in the door at the auction, you didn't own it. And when that hammer dropped, now you owned it when it went out the other side of the building. Right. Okay, that's. People need to know that. It doesn't mean you have the title in hand. It means that hammer dropped. Okay.

Yep. You purchase that vehicle, you own it. I. Any carrier. And this is one of the problems the insurance companies have with car dealers. Any carrier has to cover all of your vehicles, no matter where they are in the continental United States, period.

Okay. So there's no limit on range or anything like that?

No, the only thing that's going to happen in that scenario is at the time of a claim. And again, this is part of that standard policy form. I was telling you, at the time of the claim, you're going to have to submit an inventory form because all dealers open lot policies have a coinsurance clause. And that coinsurance clause states that you must carry 100% more of the value of your vehicles at any one time. And so again, my industry does a very poor job in explaining that to dealers when we sit down with them every year and ask, hey, what's your max inventory? Because that hurricane happened or tornado happened, what, two weeks ago?

Yeah, something like that.

Right. Okay. Isn't this when everybody stocks up between January and February? I mean, you, you know that. That was high limit scenarios.

Yeah.

So if just use, you know, quick, easy Math. If I have a million dollars in inventory and I'm carrying half a million in insurance and I have a co insurance penalty. Yeah. 50%, I'm gonna lose 50%.

Wow.

Let's break that down real quick for some of our slower dealers. So if you, if you, if you want to lie to your insurance agent and say you only have $200,000 worth of inventory and you have $400,000 worth of inventory at a given time and you, and you have a, an accident where you really have a lot of stuff damaged, they're only going to pay 50% of that claim. Correct?

Correct. And it is specific. Yep. It is specific to car dealers only on this.

That would only be even on a one off. Right. So say you only had one car auction in Tennessee and it was completely totaled out and you're like, oh, it was only a $10,000 car. I have 200,000 worth of coverage. No, no, no, you have half coverage.

Yes, yes, sir. I have had, I've had numerous, numerous scenarios where even though I've asked, I still don't, I still get fib two. And of course the BMW gets stolen $35,000 and they get a 17, you know, 17 five check. That's all you get.

Wow. So we get a lot of people on dealer forms that try to compare their rate of insurance, which I always say, say, hey, you can't do that because you can't compare what limits you have and what state you're in and this, that and other kit. You know what, what is the difference in limits? What are some key things that dealers should look for in their policy? What's the main limits we're looking for?

Right. So there, there are only so many levels of limits, which is good for your audience. You basically will have your minimum limit by state, which is typically $40,000. And then from there you can purchase basically in 100,000 increments. It really is. The next limit is 100,000, the next one is 300,000 500,000 and then a million. Then you can obviously go above that with an umbrella. But those are the standard limits that basically anybody has access to. I would highly recommend everyone go with 300,000 as a limit, as a minimum.

And that's a liability.

That's liability. And uninsured and underinsured motorists too, because remember those liability portions, uninsured and underinsured motors cover the dealer and its employees.

Okay.

That's a big. People love choosing low limits on that. And I'm like, why, are you stiffing yourself? Yeah, that's the coverage for you. You know, and Luke, I don't think you might mind me saying this one. You are an example of the employee that got hit by someone who had. Who was driving drunk.

Yep.

And wasn't insured. Shocking. And thank God we had high limits for you.

Yeah, for sure. Because we. I mean, we. One of our key employees was in an accident. She. I mean, almost got killed. And I mean, that $300,000 limit went a long way to help her get back on her feet, which is in your car. In my car. That's the reason we no longer have demos.

So that would. I don't want to go down that road just yet. I want to go down it. But let's talk. Just finish up Luke's thought of those other factors. Why we can't compare us. I compare my rates to Luke.

Absolutely.

Of those coverages because of the number of employees. Because of the fact that he's in the frickin, you know, hail capital of the world. Or because they're in a hurricane. I mean, what are the other factors.

We'Re dealing with here, the other major factors on dealers, if you take out geographics, okay. You're going to deal with people's driving records, your employees, because all employees driving records are pulled every year. That's why they want to see their driver's license number. You're going to bring in full time and part. Full time and part time. And then also what they do. So salespeople will have a different rate than your detail guy than your clerical person. And people love to say that the clerical person shouldn't be brought in. And I'm like, hold on a second. Isn't that clerical person the one that's helping you file everything with the dmv? Aren't they doing your paperwork? Don't you want them covered by your professional liability and your general liability if they screw up? Yes. We have to count them. Your limits of coverage that you choose and then what type of liability and professional you want. There are a ton of moving parts and a dealer policy, and there's no way to compare because everyone's different.

Yeah. And also, I guess it depends on the. I mean, the biggest thing is not the biggest thing, but one of them is the amount of inventory you carry as well.

Right.

And every and Everybody should have 100% of inventory coverage.

Yeah. So inventory is, believe it or not, the big portion of your policy. I would say it is probably 30% of your premium. Unless you've had a lot of claims, you know, claims Is another huge factor in all of this. And I hate to say it, but obviously with 1,000 car dealers, you know, plus that we insure. We have seen some scenarios where people had so many claims that no one would write their insurance. But there is a. There is a carrier. Every state will have a carrier that they've told them you have to write them no matter what. But it is very stripped down, about as minimum as it gets coverage, and hopefully they'll clean up their act and you can get it. But physical damages is obviously going to fluctuate by dealer.

So then let's talk about that when we're talking about not getting sideways with our insurance companies. What are some best practices? And like Luke said, so he's done away with demo cars. Help me understand where and when a demo car is. Okay? Because I'll see these big, big dealers, these new car stores, They've got plates all over the place. They've got courtesy cars running around on dealer plates. They're even putting the college football coach in a demo car with a dealer plate on it because that's part of their advertising package or whatever. And I'm just blown away.

Like, what.

What in the world?

Right? Yeah. So the college football coach won. I can. I actually insured our local university. They did not put dealer tags on theirs. They put regular tags, and the university covered the vehicles. That's kind of standard. If you're actually seeing a dealer tag, I'm shocked by that, because remember, most state laws. Yeah. Most state laws say if it is owned by a dealership with a dealer tag, then the dealer's policy is primary. Period. End of story. Don't pass go, don't collect $200. You're. I mean, that's it. So you're out there even on test drive. Mm. Doesn't matter. Yeah. So the. The big no no's to me are. And. And you got to remember one thing. Used car dealers and new car dealers are two different animals because a new. A new car dealer has access to numerous carriers that will not write used car dealers. Y' all cannot access five of the major carriers in the United States because they will not touch used car dealers. So they have completely different programs that allow for. And they charge for demo vehicles, rental vehicles, and those scenarios. So they could have.

They could have their dealer tag on a demo, or they could have some sort of a demo policy that makes that totally fine. Right. That I don't have access to. Okay, okay. Okay. So they're not. They're not putting their major lot Insurance at risk necessarily.

No, because the demo car, unless it is on a test drive. Okay, so I'll use an example. My husband did purchase a vehicle brand new for the business and he gets it serviced and he drives the demo car, you know, that they give him. That is actually a subs. That is a substitute vehicle scenario where our auto policy would be primary for that demo car in the case of an accident. So there, there are ways you can supersede it. But from a used car dealer perspective, my biggest thing and Luke does this practice now is you need to rent the vehicle to the person because if you rent it to them, then their insurance is primary, even if it's for a dollar.

And you need to have that on a simple. But you don't want to do that with a dealer tag, do you?

You could if you wanted to. I would not suggest it.

Okay.

More likely I would say a paper tag, you know, you could do that. But if you rent it and you have a rental contract and that will actually trigger their personal auto insurance to react. Now again, caveat. Not every state has great insurance companies. So be careful who their insurance is with.

Yeah, that's. That's big for us. In the buy here, pay here world, most guys have got absolutely to no coverage. What's best practices for employees? Because I think about it and I have. Or at least I. Yeah, maybe I shouldn't admit anything, but say an employee did take a car home. Like a mechanic was test driving it overnight to see if it was still acting up. Or my manager gets to take a car home at night as a perk. How do I stay covered in those situations?

You're covered. I mean, that's your pilot, is your vehicle. There's no question about you being covered. The problem is, is you hope that that mechanic doesn't decide on New Year's Eve to go Joy riding at 70 miles an hour and hit a building.

Yeah.

So I'm 100% covered, but I'm also 100% exposed.

Liable. Yeah, you're 100% liable.

Yeah, you got it.

So you got it. A quick thing. If we do, Cecilia, if we do get sued for some reason, how quickly should we call our insurance company and let them know about it?

So you should, you and your insurance agent. And I am a believer in trusted advisors. You should everything. Yeah. You cannot hold back with us on stuff and let us be the one that guides you through the process the moment it occurs. You know, I want all my clients texting or calling me. I do not care what time it is so that I can at least calm you down if it's a bad scenario and tell you next steps. But it should be immediate. There's no question the longer you wait, that means the longer we let the insurance company know. And the insurance company can really give you a hard time for that. There is language in your policy that says you have responsibilities because you have entered this end of this contract with us and you need to let us know timely of any issues because they.

Can deny coverage if you wait too long. Correct.

I think from a liability perspective, depending on the scenario. No, not really. Because most states have a three to five year statute of limitations. From a physical damage perspective, yes, you could run into some problems if let's say you say the vehicle had a tree fall on it, you take some pictures and they're questionable, and you've already gotten the vehicle fixed, nobody's seen it, we might have a problem.

Yeah.

You know, there's no proof.

Is there a point where you need to assess with your insurance agent whether or not you're gonna make a claim? Because maybe dollar amount you don't wanna. But if I tell you, does that automatically get it on the radar and now the insurance is gonna be freaked out about me even if I don't follow through with a claim?

No. Remember, you have a deductible. You have a deductible. I always tell all my clients, really, honestly, it doesn't matter what the claim is, whether it is auto liability or physical damage. But you can always settle something yourself. I never recommend someone to settle a liability scenario where someone is injured. Right. You need to let the insurance company be your friend. But if it is the. Hey, you know, I backed into CZQ in the parking lot, which happens a ton, and I want to pay the 500 or $1,000. Is that okay? Absolutely. That's okay. There's nothing to that. There should be some documents your insurance agent can give you to help you do that properly, though. You want to have things documented so that she doesn't come back and say, oh, you never paid me. So.

Very good.

Are there other best practices or faux pas? You see, dealers step in that we're not doing or should be doing.

Sure. I think one of the first top ones is not pulling everybody's driving record every year. You should do that. That is highly important information to have. Couple of things about that, though. Driving licenses are a privilege, so therefore it's protected information. So you must get your employees permission to pull them every year. There are usually some forms out There that you can, you can just hand out to every employee. And if you've got an agent that really wants to help you, your agent can help pull those driving records or point you in the right direction with permission. A lot of agents, though, will refuse, and that's just their practices. So you're going to see half and half on that one. But you really have to have that form and that client or that employee's file and make sure. But doing that will help you a ton because the employee, even anyone who has a suspension of their license for two, three, four months or more, that's not a good employee for you. If they're not willing to be the smart, upstanding citizen for themselves, you know, how are they going to handle your stuff better? Yeah, that is definitely a head shaker for me. So pulling those driving records is important. That's my big.

Is that on every employee or just the employees?

That every employee.

Every employee.

I would say every employee. Because a driving record will show you basically the history of employee. Do they pay things on time? You know, things that can hit a driving record are not paying child support, not paying property taxes, you know, serving under underage minors. I mean, there's all kinds of stuff that's on there that's not driving related, which shows you who this person is. If it's clean, then boom, you know that they're a good, good person and that they care and they're gonna protect it. But you do have to have that permission to pull it because all that information's on there.

Cool. All right, Jeff, you got anything else?

I mean, that's so much. It gives me a ton to think about in my own insurance. You know, I think one thing, and maybe this is my final question for you though, as dealers, and this is something I've learned, and I don't mean it to sound bad, but go with the insurance, go with the broker or the agent that serves a thousand car lots. Don't go with your buddy's uncle that's down the street that can write for these companies, but doesn't specifically write a lot of dealerships. Right.

They don't understand a policy for sure.

It is a. The one comment I make about that, I 100% agree with you, obviously, but. But the one comment I make about that is you want that. That agent who has the history to help you during the bad claim. And if you have an agent who's never been through the bad claim for a car dealer, you're going to be lost. So it's not Just, hey, I want to help my buddy. And I get that. But is that the person who's going to go to bat for you against the bad scenario or help you through the lawsuit, that is crazy. And how to handle it and talk to the adjuster and if they don't have the knowledge, they won't be able to talk to the insurance company. They won't, they'll just kind of put their hands up and go, I don't know.

Is carrier hopping is that bad? Like, I look at mine and I've been with auto owners for 10, 10 years. Do I just need to hunker down and stick with them because I paid them so much and maybe they'll, they'll step in if I have an issue or if I jump to another provider that's cheaper, Is it sixes or.

So? Commercial insurance, and this is all commercial insurance, there's some rules of thumb. Carrier hopping is not bad. What you need is to stick with a good, with an agent, an informed agent who can tell your story to the carrier and take it from there. Staying with a carrier for 2, 3, 5, 7 years can be the right thing. Are you going to lose or not get credits because you move? No, commercial insurance doesn't work that way. We tell a story, we show your claims history, we show how great your employees are, and that's how you get the good pricing. So if you wanted to move from one carrier to the next, you should get pricing based on your history. So, no, I would not tell you you need to stay with auto owners that they honestly, a claim is a claim, whether they've had you for 10 minutes or they've had you for 10 years. That, that doesn't. The claims department and the underwriting department do not talk at all. Oh, and now it is an A.

Are those carriers? I mean, there's got to be different levels of carriers, right? I mean, obviously if you have a claim, it's like, maybe this company will treat you better and make the process smoother and less of a hassle, whereas this bargain company will still pay the claim, but it might be a hassle or headache. Is that the difference in carriers?

No.

Real difference.

Yeah, no, not in the garage world. As we said in the beginning, garage is the most complicated policy. So if they're writing garage dealer policies, they're in. There is no such thing as a bargain bargain policy. Not for that coverage.

So if I find a cheaper version, it's the same as if I stick with who I'm with.

Now if you find a cheaper or less expensive version and it matches all your requirements, then you've found a better price. Yeah, but be careful. I'd be careful. Yeah.

Being careful about what you need to.

Make sure that agent. Be careful as to what is cheaper.

It's cheaper because they stripped out some coverage.

They stripped out stuff and there. I'm not trying to get in the weeds, but there is more to this. There are. So there are exclusions that some carriers have on policies that limit things and it really can get complicated.

See, and that's what I really can. That's what I'm trying to shed light on is I feel like dealers get stuck with where they're at or maybe paying too much because they're scared to shop or, or they don't know enough. Like me, I'm scared to make a jump even though it might save me three or four or five grand a year because I feel like I'm going to this other policy that might leave me exposed, you know, or it might not be as good.

It might be all the same. Yeah, yeah. That my advice honestly on insurance is I'm not going to be the cheapest, but I'm going to make sure I'm there and you're covered. And if that to me is what helps you sleep better at night, don't stress about spending a little. Don't stress about spending a little bit more money to have peace of mind. That is to me the most important thing.

And in your opinion, that falls on having a better agent or having a better underwriting company?

I think the agent for your industry. The agent is everything.

Okay. That's.

Underwriting companies are all the time.

Yeah, that's. That. That I think drives that home to me when I look at my current agent and maybe some miss non attention to the situation that I had as opposed to going with someone like you that is very specifically in the auto industry and is attentive.

So let's get to that. Cecilia, if you can pretty much write in any stage. Right.

Correct.

All right, so let's put it out there. How to get in touch with Cecilia Fornell. Vista Insurance Group.

Sure. Vista Insurance Group. You could go on our website www.vistainsurancegroup or go directly to our garage arm, which is dealersriskinsuranceservices.com our phone number is 800-277-0900. And that would be the best way to get a hold of anyone in our three offices. And happy to discuss coverage with you. Thank you for joining us today. Hope this episode inspired you to take positive action. Remember to subscribe so you get each episode the day it comes out, and we would love your help spreading the word. Leave us a review and share this podcast with your dealer friends. Dealers helping dealers learn and grow together.

That was educational.

Geez, yeah, man. I feel like I told you, I have, like, a ton of questions. Hopefully it was coherent.

I was, I think, awesome.

Okay, do you want to you do the intro this time? I'll just chime in. Look, I'm getting sick of hearing my voice at the beginning of these things.

All right, I got it. All right, everyone. Welcome to the Dealer. One more time. Jeff.

I screwed it up.

That's why I do the intros.

I got it.