Shaka Senghor on the Traumatic Events Leading Up to Him Killing a Man

We have New York Times bestselling author Shaka Senghor with us.

It's such a pleasure to be here, man.

Appreciate you pleasure for having us, man. Big fan of what you do.

Thank you.

For some of our viewers who don't know your story, I kind of want to tell your story from beginning to where it is now. You grew up in Detroit, and you were actually an honor roll student, and you wanted to be a doctor at one point.

Yeah, I mean, that was my big dream, you know, growing up and, you know, going to the doctor's office with my mother. Just the way that she interacted with the doctor and the respect that she had for him in a way that other people reacted to him, you know, and it was like, wow, that'd be an amazing occupation to really be able to help people, but also to have that level of respect that comes with, you know, having a job, like being a doctor or a career as a doctor.

Now, things were going good until around 11 years old. And that's when your parents split up, I guess.

Yeah. So that was the first time my parents separated, and it was devastating for our family. You know, my father's, like, a real dope guy, and, you know, having that lack of stability in the household and his presence, which balanced out my mother's presence. And, you know, when he. When they told us, like, we didn't even have, like, real signs that their relationship was coming to an end. And so when they told us, like, we didn't know what that meant. You know, what do we mean that y' all separating? And so my father moved to a city that's, like, almost like, within the city of Detroit called Highland Park. And so we ended up staying summers with him, weekends with him, and then the rest of the school year, we was with my mother.

Okay, now, at one point, you said that your mother became abusive and you ran away from home at 14, right?

Yeah. Yeah. So my mother had been abusive since I was a kid, at least to my older siblings. And as I got older, that abuse continued on with the rest of her children. And when I got 14, by the time I got around 14, I was just like, you know what? I don't wanna be subjected to this no more. So I decided to run away.

Okay, so when you ran away, is that when things started to really go downhill for you?

Yeah, I mean, like, the first couple of weeks, I was so naive about where I was going. I just thought somebody would see this smart kid and be like, you know, all he really needs is love and nourishment and the care that all children deserve. But instead I found myself sleeping in garages and basements and, you know, hanging out for days without being able to change clothes and, you know, hustling food from the store. And that's how, you know, I ended up getting seduced into the crack culture. Because what happens in these and the reality is what happens in the hood all too often is that kids who are vulnerable are seized upon by more veteran street guys who know that if you offer food, clothing, shelter, that the likelihood of a child choosing that over being on the streets is real probable. And that's what happened in my case.

Okay. And this was right when crack was hitting Detroit.

Yeah, this was when crack was first hitting the city of Detroit. Prior to that, like, our neighborhoods were beautiful. I'm from the east side of Detroit now, if you ask somebody about the east side, they'd be like, yeah, I ain't. Yeah, that's the place you don't want to go. But back then, like our neighborhoods was beautiful, tree lined streets, manicured lawns, working class, middle class. And crack just came in and devastated that community in one of the, I mean, I guess mind blowing. When you go back and look now where you see one or two houses that's left on the block, they used to be full of life, love and laughter.

So at the time, people didn't really know what crack was. So they didn't see the long term effects. Like there weren't a lot of crack heads and there weren't movies about crack and everything else. You know, New Jack City hadn't come out yet.

Yeah.

You know, so people didn't understand the long term ramifications of what was happening.

Yeah, when it went, when crack first came, it was the sexy drug. You know, it was like, you know, like Molly. Right, right. Our clientele was like, you know, doctors, dentists, lawyers, teachers, you know, people who had, you know, money for what the terms in the hood. So it was still sexy. It was people partying and having fun. But I mean, from the moment I stepped into that culture, within six months, like it was mind blowing, like how devastating the drug impacted our community in a real way. And I mean, like teachers who, you know, we grew up respecting and looking up to are now coming to the spot exchanging oral sex and sex for drugs. And that was our introduction to the sex world. It's like, wow, we these young guys, we 14, 15 years old, and we getting our first shot at having sex with a grown woman because of this addiction and she's still Looking attractive. Because it's not like. Like you say, it's not what you see when you look at Public enemy night at 11 base here, you know, it wasn't that yet, you know, so, yeah, it was. It just had a devastating impact on the community.

Yeah, I think Biggie talked about that in one of his interviews, about how sex just came easy because they were basically having sex with the users.

Yeah.

With, you know, not only people their own age, but the mothers, the grandmothers, whoever just needed money.

It's real. And I think. I think when I look at, like, how do. How do we go? Like, I grew up with hip hop. I grew up alongside of hip hop, which is, to me, one of the best experiences in my life is to know that I was there from the beginning to where it's at now. And when you really go back and look at how the music changed in terms of misogyny, you know, that came from that culture, you know, because there was a definite shift between having this level of respect. Like back in the hood. You weren't calling women bitches and hoes back then. Like, you get your ass whooped all up and down the block, you call a woman a bitch. But once that crack epidemic hit, that respect for women changed, you know, that respect because of the sexual dynamic. When you're a young kid and you can get sex for $10 from a grown woman and tell her to do anything you want to do, that diminishes her in your eyes, you know? And so it played a pivotal role in terms of the respect in the community and misogyny and music. Even when you go back to the NWA when they was like, you know, Strawberry is the neighborhood hoe.

Right.

Like, that comes from, you know, crack. Crack, you know. Yeah.

So you're homeless and you start messing around with the crack game. So at this point, are you selling or are you using?

So I started off selling. And like a lot of young kids, you're around older guys who hustling and selling, and they doing blow and they doing, you know, lace joints, and they're like, oh, this. This ain't. You know, this ain't harmful. You be all right. It ain't like you smoking a pipe, and before you know it, six months in, I'm smoking lace joints. And so I went from making a lot of money every day, and I'm fresh. I got all the fly. You know, Fila was the thing back then. I got all the fly apparel. You know, I got all the looks of a young drug dealer. The jewelry, the you know, the moped. But then I look up and I'm spending all my money on lace joints, you know? And the deepest part about me, that I always go back to this moment, the guy that introduced me to that, you know, and like, what. What type of sickness do you have to be dealing with to introduce a child to a drug that, you know, is devastating, you know, because you. You've experienced it in your own life, you know, but fortunately, I had the will of spirit to be like, you know what? I'm. I'm. I need to get back to the money, you know, so the. The attraction to having fly gear and. And being like, you know, that guy that was known as being fresh, like, that was more important to me than getting high. But most people don't. I know people who are still addicted to this day. And you're talking 30, 40 years later.

Yeah, me too, actually.

Yeah. Yeah. So.

So you're in this. In this hustle, and then you end up getting robbed and, I guess beat up really badly.

Yeah. So on one occasion. And this is what happens when you're a naive kid in this really volatile subculture. You're so naive. You're so trusting. That was me. I was that trusting kid. And a guy I knew from the neighborhood prior to him being addicted, which is a whole different thing. It's like you knowing somebody before they're addicted and then understanding the addiction and how that changed them. And basically what he did is he lured me out of the crack house and. And set me up to be robbed. And the guy who robbed it was him and a couple other guys that robbed me. And I remember this moment, man. I mean, I'm in the building on the east side of Detroit on the street called Jefferson. And this was always the seedy part of the hood. So I'm down here, and I just remember this guy with this gun in my head, and all I could see is the stairwell. This is what I'm looking down at. And he's just like, you know, bitch and all that, you know? And it's just like the aggression that he had to a kid, you know? And I remember thinking to myself that I can die at 14 right now in this moment. And then when that moment passed, it was this moment where I had to make a decision. You know, am I gonna bitch up and, like, go home, run home, my tail sucked in my legs? Or am I gonna fake this toughness and act as if, you know, okay, that happened. Now we gotta get some. Get back. And that's what I opted to do, you know, because I couldn't go to my guys and be like, yo, I'm really scared. You know, which is the case for a lot of guys in the streets. And that's where you see that toughness, that hard shell. It's a mask, you know, it masks the fear that you can die in any given moment over something that really doesn't amount to anything.

So you end up getting robbed and then they what, pistol whipped you?

Yeah, well, he basically just put the gun in my head. And then the beating you're talking about happened on a whole different incident, okay? And that was over some money. Like when I was smoking the crack, I was messing up money. And the guy who I was selling drugs with, he brought, you know, two other grown men over and they literally like beat me like I was nothing, you know, and left me on the bathroom floor in the back of the crack house. And this was the guy who brought me into the culture. And basically what he did is he cultivated a level of trust because it was like, oh, this is my little brother, you know, when he went shopping, I went shopping, you know, and that's kind of how young, when I say seduced into the game. Like a lot of people don't really understand, like how that works when you're a young guy and you're just looking for acceptance, you're looking for love and you're looking for respect. And then you had these older cats who just like, yeah, come on, little homie, I got you. You know, let's go get fresh, let's go get money. And when you making them money and everything is all good, it's all love, but when things go the opposite way, they kill you like they'll kill anybody else, you know, and so that's what happened at that age. And then I became that guy where, you know, I got young guys working for me and I got guys who messing up money and we gotta, you know, penalize them for messing up money, you know, so that's the cycle of violence in that environment.

So were you actually in a gang at this point or was it just a crew of dudes that were just doing their thing?

So Detroit culture is different from like, you know, LA or Chicago. @ least back then. We didn't have like the organized gang structures during that era, like the era before us, they had like neighborhood gangs, like our, you know, our uncles and all that. But Detroit is more neighborhood based or centered around your hustle. And so we just had our little crew of guys who was getting money, you know, and this came. We came up during, you know, the era where all the notorious, you know, drug dealers, you know, all from the east side of Detroit, Maserati, Rick, White Boy, Rick Chambers, brothers, best friends.

Okay.

All of us all grew up alongside each other.

So BMF came later.

BMF came later. Yeah. I was in the joint when bmf, like, right. Rose to their height of fame. And then that happened. Actually, they're from Detroit, but most of what, they came when they was in Atlanta and everything.

Yeah. So you're hustling and you're getting caught up in various things. But then the shooting happened at 17. Yeah, you're mixed up in the drug game as a dealer and a user, and then, you know, various situations happen. But then at 17, you get shot. So talk about the situation that led up to that.

So I got locked up the prior summer and stating this. This lady I was dating, and me and her used to do business together and hustle and all that. And so when I got out, we had got into a conflict. Me and her got into a conflict. And then that led to me getting into a conflict with her new. With a new guy she was dating. And it was real superficial. It wasn't like nothing. I felt like it was like real beef. And so it was March 8, 1990. Standing on the corner, me and one of my guys, we just kicking it, talking, having a conversation, and a car pull up, and I realized the guy we had, you know, we exchanged some words. So I'm thinking, this is old school. Like, you really got a problem, get out the car. We can just, you know, scrap it out, you know. But instead he pulled out a pistol and shot me three times. And over a girl? Pretty much, yeah. Basically superficial argument.

Where'd you get shot?

I got shot twice in the leg and once in the foot.

Okay, so it wasn't exactly life threatening, but you're still shot three times.

Yeah, no, it wasn't life threatening at all. But the reality is, at 17, getting shot, period. Whether it's in your finger, foot, back, whatever. Just the thought that somebody would shoot you over something so superficial and attempt to take your license. Reality, he's just. With a bad. He just had a bad aim because he was close enough. He could have shot me anywhere. And, you know, it happens all the time in the hood. You know, guys get into minor conflicts and get shot. And guys not like guys going to the gun range and just like practicing with a suit. They just wilding out, shooting anywhere, you know.

So when you get shot, does the ambulance come right away.

The ambulance never came.

Never came?

Never came.

Did anyone call the ambulance or.

We called the ambulance, but the ambulance never came. I was actually bleeding pretty bad. And so my friend who had got shot the prior year, he ended up taking me to the hospital, dropped me off. They basically pulled two bullets out of my leg, left one in my foot, patched me up, and literally within a couple of days, I was right back. Back on the block.

Okay, now, you said this is sort of the start of your ptsd.

Yeah. So at that point, both of my brothers had been shot. My childhood friend had been murdered. My other friend had been shot, and then I got shot, and a couple of more guys on my block had been shot as well. And after being shot, you know, up until that point where you actually get shot. Well, I'm gonna say this. Up until that point prior to me getting shot, I still had that sense of invincibility, you know, Like, I was the man in the hood. I'm the man on the block. So even though my guys got shot, I didn't feel like I would get. I mean, we had gotten a lot of shootouts that I had never been hit, you know, and it was after that moment where you realize that anybody can die out here. Like, it don't matter. It don't matter how tough you think you are, how much money you making, how much you think you the man. Like, anybody can get killed out here on any given day. And, like, that shifted everything inside of me, you know? And so from that moment forward, I never left the house without a gun. You know, I had a gun even when I was in the house. Like, that's just what I was on. And I started making it up in my mind that if I find myself in a conflict, I'm shooting first. And 16 months later, that's what happened.

So you basically carried a gun every single place you went to?

Pretty much.

You would. You'd walk around the house with what, the guns? Just around somewhere.

Using my hoodie. Yeah, using my hoodie waistband.

Okay. You would go out, you'd go eat, you'd go hang out with friends everywhere you went.

Yeah.

So basically, if you had to go to a place that didn't allow guns, you just wouldn't go.

No. Either. That we were sneaking them in. Okay. Yeah, it was. It's like a lot of plays. Don't allow guns.

Well, I mean, you can't go in the club, you know, like, where there's pat downs and stuff like that.

I don't mean nothing. In the hood. You can get in. In any club you want to get in, you know? Okay, that's. That's the thing. Like, when you caught up in that culture, it's ways around everything, like you in survival mode. So you know how to, you know, make it happen. There's nothing to pay the guy at the door or the guy at the door is your guy already, you know? So anywhere we went, it was always a gun. If not on me, it was definitely nearby.