Shaka Senghor Talks New Own Show, Oprah Wanting A Interview + Writing A Letter To Kalief Browder

Spot 151. My. My friend and one of my. Honestly, one of my favorite interviews last. Last year was with my friend Shaka sang who are in the building.

That means a lot. I feel the same way.

Do you really?

Seriously? Yeah. Definitely one of my favorite, like, the most genuine, real, and heartfelt.

Thank you, man. So if you don't know the history, you should. First of all, you should watch our last interview, because we wrote. Really broke down Shaka's background. Well, let me just say Shaka is a criminal reform, justice reform activist. Is that the official activist? Best author of Righting my wrongs Now. Television producer.

I know, right?

Is that the title?

Yeah. Consulting producer on release that I'm super excited about.

But we really. The last time he was here, we really told your story. We really talked about how you even got to this point, spending 25 years in prison.

19. 19.

19. Oh, sorry. 19. So I didn't want to add on. Nobody wants to add on. Nobody wants to add on. 19 years in prison, getting out, writing this book, really telling the story, really putting eyeballs on just what's wrong with the system, and getting on the radar of Oprah Winfrey.

Yeah. Which was just an incredible experience of, you know, I look at it as an experience of thinking into existence the things that you want in your life. And I knew when I started working toward turning my life around, I started writing that I wanted to have that conversation and to have it come full circle was just an incredible experience.

So take me back just a little bit till we get to here so we can see how amazing this moment is. Right. So just to give you a little backstory. So Shaka was writing in prison as well. Right. In prison, you started writing, developing the talent. The gift came out, was hustling books out the back of a car.

Out the truck with it.

Yeah, out the truck. Like, he was moving books out here in the street.

Yeah. I mean, and it was. It was one of those things where I knew coming home from prison, that job opportunities was going to be very slim. And, you know, I realized I had the skill set while I was in prison. I actually started writing, taking it serious while I was in solitary confinement. And when I was writing, I would start writing down what did I want my goals to be. And I personally believe that you have to think into existence the things you want in your life. And I just started writing it down. I was like, one day, Oprah Winfrey's gonna read one of my books.

Oh, you didn't write that? I didn't Know that.

I seriously wrote that down. I was like, one day I wanna be a New York Times bestselling author. And when I would share that with people, they would be like, well, that's kind of ambitious. And I just would explain to him that the universe is abundant. And I believe it bestows upon you abundance when you open up your heart and mind to receive it. And so that's how I live my life.

So you wrote that down?

I wrote it down.

You come out, you're hustling books out the back of the car. Somehow the book makes its way to the home of one Oprah Winfrey. It sits around her home for like a year, right?

Yeah, Literally. She said she moved it all around her house. And this was like. Because the COVID the original cover was a little gritty, you know, it was me, you know, standing on self published. Self published.

Yeah.

And that's one of my proud. That's one of the proudest things. So the proudest thing for me is that she actually read the self published version and was inspired by that, which is just like a testament to the quality of writing and storytelling and, you know, the compelling narrative that I was able to create.

There was no pretty cover.

No pretty cover. No professional editor. The mother of my son, she edited the book and we just put it out there and we got out and hustled and grind and, you know, just sold out the trunk and wherever we could.

Amazing. That's amazing. And then so it got to her house. Somebody, somebody, a producer or somebody found it first, put it sentence out.

A producer who's now a really good friend of mine named Andrea. She ended up giving it to Oprah after she read it. And she just moved it all around her house. And one day she was like, you know, I'm going to just crack this book open and see what's happening. She said she was about 60 pages in when she was like, I want to interview this guy.

Changes your life.

Surreal. It was so surreal.

And the interview was phenomenal.

Yeah. Thank you.

Oprah even said it was one of her favorite conversations ever in her life. Which, by the way, could you imagine the conversation, the list of conversations that Oprah has had in her life?

I mean, you talking about Nelson Mandela, Maya Angelou, President Obama, Beyonce, Jay Z, you know, New York's own. So yeah, that was just super humbling to have that.

Yeah. I was gonna say, what does that feel? Is that weird?

It was wild. And here's the thing that was really interesting. About a year prior to that, every year at the Beginning of the year, I write down what I want to happen in my life. And I had wrote down everything that I accomplished. And I was like, the only thing I hadn't done was have that interview with Oprah. And literally the following year it happened. So I believe in being intentional about what you want in your life.

You should write down the lottery numbers.

For me today before we leave. I got.

If you wanna do that for me, maybe that could work out good. So then you do the interview. It's incredible. Oprah says it's one of her favorite conversations. And then you build the relationship. Right. She keeps in touch with you.

Yeah. And it was so crazy because I'm like, you know, in my humility, I'm just like, you know, I've done this incredible interview. You know, I'll ride off and finish work, doing my work in the world. But she reached out to me, and it was literally just like, we started building a relationship and a friendship and have so much respect for her.

Amazing story. Really just an amazing story. One of the things too, and I've kind of, like, lightly said said, because Shock and I have become friends and I have shared this with you about Oprah is like my all I write in my book, I call her the Almighty. Oh, Oprah. Right. Because to me, as a person in this field, she, you know, she was everything to me. And the one, the couple of times where I was like, either not angry, but like, come on. Oprah was when I felt like she wasn't really connecting with hip hop, with the streets, where she kind of just was like, auntie about it, you know what I'm saying?

Where she wasn't.

And I felt that, that disconnect from her, it always, it bothered me as somebody has so much respect for her. But I feel like that conversation that she had with you shifted something for her.

Yeah. And I think that happens a lot in life. Sometimes you have to have kind of an on ramp. Like, what is the on ramp to issues that you care about and may just not know how to connect to, you know. And so when her and I were talking, you know, we just kind of talked about, you know, problem solving. I was explaining to her when I was in prison, when I started turning my life around, like, I had to figure out a new way to resolve conflict that didn't include violence. And what I did is I started being able to see the little boy, and every guy got into a conflict with or a potential conflict.

While you're inside.

While I was inside. And what I realized is that If I can see the child in them first, then it made me more empathetic and compassionate. And I think her and I having that shared value really opened her eyes to, like, you know, let me look at these guys in a different light, you know, and it's just. It's a super humbling experience to know that not only that she value what our interaction, but that she trusts, you know, my instinct when it comes to this space and know that, you know, the work that I do is really about that type of empathy and compassion.

Amazing. And so now you're doing this project with ownership.

Yes. Yes. Super excited.

What is your role? What do you have to do? What do you do?

So I'm the consulting producer on release.

Wow. He's a producer.

Add that to the list, to the resume. Amazing. And when they reached out to me, the own team reached out to me. I got an opportunity to work with John Sinclair over there. Incredible. Incredible. Gifted, just humble person. And Dara. And we just really sat down and was like, oprah really wants you to work with her on this project. Because we want to make sure we get this right. We're delicately dealing with the humanness of people who are incarcerated, and we want to make sure that we're getting the stories out the right way and connecting. And then we got an opportunity to work with Kierra, who's an amazing talent. She was the showrunner and executive producer as well. And it was just humbling to watch these men and this one woman story just unfold as they came home to their families.

What it is, is. So it's called Released, and it's the story of six people who were incarcerated. And it shows them from release day.

Or before, from their release date coming out, the first 90 days of their release. And one of the things that we really wanted to focus on was that part of their story, we didn't want to focus on what happened in prison, what they went to prison for, even though some of those things do merge. But we really wanted to focus on the family dynamic, the community dynamic. How do you help welcome men and women back to society? And more importantly, how do we humanize this issue? And there's nothing greater than to be able to see somebody reconnected with their family. And these are men and women who have been going away for a long time. 1. I think the longest is 26 years, and I think the shortest time is like, maybe six years or so.

Yeah, I saw clips of it. I saw a piece of it today. So I saw the first man's Story. He was away for a long 19 years.

19 years?

Yeah, for, like, selling clothes and, like, a scuffle, like, because it was his third offense. He was, you know, a victim of that.

Of that law.

So 19 years, he comes out 48 years old. He's not the same person he is when he goes inside.

Not at all.

And then to see his family welcoming him and him getting his first. I don't know. It is. You know, it. It just crept up in my heart immediately. I was like, I. I was watching it here, and then I was like, I can't watch this here. I got to watch this. I got to watch this when I go home because it's heavy.

It's like, heavy. Heavy. It's. It's. You know, so the first guy that you're talking about is Kevin. And Kevin spent 19 years in prison for literally stealing $150 worth of children's clothes. And it was associated with his addiction, you know, and, you know, when you really think about that, like, 20 years for petty theft that completely disrupted this man's family, his life, when in reality, we could have been getting him some type of substance abuse treatment as opposed to, you know, punitively dealing with it. And so, you know, a lot of that comes through, and I think that when people watch it, they'll have a different understanding of how dysfunctional our prison system is. And largely because we just haven't been able to humanize people. You know, we just attach, you know, stats and data and criminal. And we just forget that these are human beings whose lives are completely devastated. That $150 from a retail store, that's a tax write off at a minimum, whatever the case may be.

Yeah.

That literally cost this man 20 years of his life.

And it's not just his life who. It's his kid's life. It's his family's life. It's, you know.

Exactly. And I mean.

Yeah.

When you think about, you know, this is a father, you know, this is. This is somebody's son, you know, he has two. Two children who literally grew up with their father being gone, and now he's. He's reuniting, and it's not an easy reunification process.

Yeah. So what is the hope when you put out this show? Just to let people humanize it.

Yeah. The hope for us is that people will really see the humanity in our incarcerated brothers and sisters. I think it's so important, you know, and one of the things that's really been touching to me in this experience is that after people have viewed the screening. I have so many people come up to me and say, you know, I have an uncle that's incarcerated. I have a brother. I have an aunt. I have a mother, and I don't know how to connect with them because I'm ashamed of. And so the more I thought about that, I was like, wow, this is deep. That this deep level of shame allows us to not address the issue. And so it continues to grow, and the population continues to grow. And now we're offering up this opportunity for people to really connect from the most human perspective, which is why we really wanted to focus on what is life after, you know, and it's just amazing to see these families connect. You can see the void that's left when a parent is taken out of a family and what that does to community. I mean, we know what's happening with our communities throughout the country, and it's largely because so many of our men and women have been disappeared due to the punitive nature of the criminal justice system.

It's infuriating.

Unbelievable.

Did you watch the Kalief Browder story?

I did, and, you know, that story just.

That must have been tough for you specifically, too, to watch somebody who's so.

Hurt, you know, this young life with so much potential, you know, falsely accused, abused while he was in, you know, solitary confinement. Like, that piece resonated. I ended up writing a letter to Kalief, like, you know, dear Kalief, here's what I would have said to you. And it was, you know, I did seven years in solitary confinement, and I know the torturous nature of that environment and the heaviness that he came out with that he had to try to cope with on his own, you know, so when I found out that Jay Z was doing that documentary, like, I was so excited to hear that, because people need to know these stories, and they need to know that this is happening to our kids, you know, and had Kalief been, you know, Corby from the suburbs, that wouldn't have happened, you know, and so I think it's important for us to really highlight how these things are really impacting our communities.

Yeah. Did you say Corby?

Yeah, I was trying to think of.

Another the go to white kid name.

I just had to, like, I had to come up with something, Right?

No, but you're so true. It's so. And it's funny because when that. When that show came out, I remember thinking, I know this story. I've read this story. I've seen it. But it's different when it's brought to like television or film where you see the family and you see the mother and you see. It really just hits you in a different way. And so, you know, I could see that also happening with this show that you guys are doing where you get to see the family.

And that's the power of it. I mean, these families are so resilient. The women in the family are just unbelievably courageous. And it's typically the case in our communities with so many males who have been taken away and hauled off the prison and the women are left to hold everything together and hold it down. And the way that these women show up, you know, the daughters, the wives and you know, even grandmothers, just like, you know, it's one story. I can't wait. And this is an eight part docu series. So it's not just one night, it'll be eight weeks of it. And there's this on own.

On own starts on when?

Starts this Saturday, September 30th, 10pm Got it. East and West Coast. And so, you know, you see this beautiful grandmother that's just been waiting on her baby to come home and she leaves his room intact. And it's literally like watching somebody go into a time capsule. It is unbelievably touching and just stirs her soul in a real way. And I think that the power of that moment is one of the things where you realize what 20 years look like. You know, what does it look like when you send somebody away for that long and then they come back to a different society?

You know, I can't imagine.

Yeah, yeah, it's deep.

Yeah. I'm so glad you guys are doing this. So it's eight weeks.

Eight weeks. Eight. Yep. Eight part docu series.

I know you do a lot. I mean, you do a lot of work, you know, are a voice for this, for these issues. What is the thing that, like, what is the main thing we're fighting to change out the gate? Like, if we could make two changes, what would that be?

I think if we can make two changes, like me personally, I would focus on decriminalizing mental illness. The way that men and women who have mental illness suffer in prison is unimaginable. And it's really a shame to me, I think is one of America's greatest shames is that what we do to people who have mental illness inside prison. And the other thing is that you introduce real comprehensive substance abuse treatment for people who are dealing with addiction as opposed to just punishing them because they are Dealing with this disease that leads them down this particular path. And so those are things that are really fixable. Working on reentry initiatives that actually are reflective of the world that we live in. When I walked out of prison, they had me going to this very anemic reentry program with all this old outdated information. And so I came home. It was just like, you know, you've been gone for 20 years now here, go out and figure out the world. And it's like coming out as a newborn and navigating a whole new language and technology. All the fancy things that, you know, we just take for granted in our day to day lives. So those are areas I would really focus on. I think it would make a major difference in the world.

How long have you been home?

I've been home seven years now.

How do you. Do you feel? Adjusted.

There's areas of my life where I'm still adjusting. Like I discover new things about me as a man now. Like, you know, when I came home, I thought I was an adult and I realized that I still, I had like this arrested development, you know, and I had this moment where when I first got out, my first car was like a 96 Caprice classic straight hood mobile.

You thought it was still popping. You thought that was still.

The crazy thing is it came out after I was locked up, but, you.

Know, so that was the new joint.

Yeah. And then when I got home, it was the old school joint. Right. But I literally went and put some music in. And then one day I'm at a streetlight and a young guy pulls up in the same kind of car. In Detroit, we love our old school cars and, and we like almost playing the same music. And I'm like, this guy gotta be like 18 or 19. And I'm like, I'm almost 40. What am I doing? You know? And that's when it hit me. Like, I mean, at first I laughed and then I got sad and I was like, there's areas of my life where I really haven't grown up and matured and I'm not opposed to loud music' cause I still listen to loud music.

Yeah. By the way, I was never locked up.

I'm in my 40s and still rap. But it was just a combination of things that really just hit me. And so, you know, you'll see that manifesting in these guys as they're coming home and they're trying to navigate life. And you know, the woman in the show K, who, her storyline is just so deep, you know, and just to connect. The way that you'll connect with her immediately is like, dang, that's my auntie, that's my sister, and that's my friend. But, yeah, so, you know, you have these real human stories, and that's the.

Power of it, you know, I'm excited to see it.

Yeah.

How many are you getting? Like, I don't know. I'm, you know, I'm obsessed with Oprah. So when you do, like, this big thing and you have this project with Oprah, do you get to meet. I'm sure, like, you've met some incredible people in this process, and are they, like, now as enlightened as she is? And do you feel like you're being effective to those type of people, people who can affect change?

You know, definitely. I mean, I've been very fortunate in my work, you know, obviously, to be able to work with Oprah, but also have done a lot of work with Van Jones. Love Van Dreamcore And Jessica, that cut 50 over there. And, I mean, I've met some incredible people who really want to change the system. And the thing is just figuring out how to do it. And so with Van. What I love about Van is Van is really smart about these things, and he realized legislation without humanization, we couldn't get the job done. And so being able to work alongside him and just meet so many courageous people, you know, Russell Simmons always, you know, shout them out. You know, the godfather of hip hop and how he's used this platform to allow us to tell these stories and connect with people, and it's just incredible. I'm blessed to work with some people who really care about things like this.

I feel a little hopeful. Do you feel hopeful?

I do. I mean, it's, you know, the work that I've been able to do in terms of. From a bipartisan perspective, it was, you know, and I'm not a political. I'm not like a super political guy. I'm just an everyday human guy. But I also realized the policy is how you change things. And, you know, I have been inspired by people. You know, when President Obama was in office, the work that we were able to do at the White House, and despite what's going on in the current administration, we still have people working from a bipartisan standpoint on this issue in particular. And I was shocked to see that conservatives were really stepping up to the plate and saying, you know, we need to reduce the prison population now. What their motives were for that, you know, you never really know. But at the end of the day, when it's your friends that are incarcerated, you don't really care who signs the bill to let them out. We just want to bring our people home.

And what about people inside? Are you getting a lot of reaction from people who are, like, hearing you and hearing your message?

Definitely, yeah.

I gotta imagine that you bring people hope.

Yeah. I mean, the brothers inside, they keep me hopeful. They mean, they write me some of the most beautiful letters about how proud they are, men I've served time with. And even when I go inside prison systems outside of where I did time at, when I go in there, like, the level of respect that the men inside show me is so humbling, you know, And I get it, because I know, like, when I read Malcolm X's autobiography, like, I revered that book, you know, and I really put him on a pedestal as a person who demonstrated what it takes to turn your life around. And so to have that type of response, and I'm not saying, like, a Malcolm X response, but to have the type of response people are really saying, you know, I'm hopeful and. And I'm really looking forward to doing something when I get out of prison that adds value to the community. Like, that. To me, that's, like, one of the greatest parts of my legacy. So I feel honored by that, you.

Know, and moving forward.

Moving forward. So much happening right now.

Come on, Shaka. What we doing out here?

How change the world, Change the world, change the world. But I mean, like, right now, I'm really in this space, this creative space where I believe that, you know, you create highly entertaining content with deep social impact. You can move the needle on things. You know, I think that's the magic of hip hop culture. You know, me and you had this, you know, this conversation all the time about, you know, me being such a big fan of hip hop because it's empowered us in ways that I think sometimes we take for granted.

Yes.

But it really liberated voices in communities that didn't have a voice. And so I always believe that art has the ability to change culture. And once you can shift culture, you can produce different outcomes. And, I mean, like, with release, this wasn't like, an artistic interpretation of people's lives. This is their real lives. Yet we're using an artistic platform to share these real lives. And I just think that's the power of it all. And one of the conversations Oprah and I had during Queen Sugar's first premiere, when she was introducing me to Kofi, who plays Ralph angel in Queen Sugar, and part of that character is based on my story.

I was gonna ask you about that.

Yeah, it's crazy. When she introduced us, she was like, you know, this is how you do it. This is how you use art as a change agent. And, you know, that's the power of intention that she believes in. She lives her life in that manner. And so just moving forward, I'm looking forward to collaborating with her again on something magical. We're really looking forward to this landing really well with people and the conversations we're excited about having online. And I'm engaged in this. It's not just pushing the show, but I really want to connect with people and figure out ways that we can really continue to have this conversation.

Yeah, I think after people see it, too, there's going to be so many more conversations to have about what it takes to help not just them, but everybody else that's in that position that they're in.

Yeah, definitely. And what I'm really excited about is just people reconnecting with their families, freeing themselves of the shame, you know, that comes with having a loved one locked up. Cause, I mean, and there's people from all walks of life. Like, I meet people from every space you can think of, and sometime they'll pull me to the side and whisper, I got a loved one locked up. You know, my stepson or my daughter is dealing with addiction, especially with opioid crisis right now. So there's just so many people who are hurting in this space, and we just haven't created a safe space for people to have these conversations.

By the way, if you're just joining us, Saturday, it premieres right?

Saturday, September 30, 10pm Released.

I can't wait.

Yeah, I'm looking forward to it.

Are you gonna do another book?

I am.

Good.

Yes. Yes.

By the way, if you haven't read his book, I. I highly, highly recommend it.

Thank you so much.

It is a New York Times bestseller and rightfully so. And you're gonna do another one?

Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. So I just met with my publishers and started talking about ideas I have. And basically the next book will be about the life lessons I learned along my journey inside prison and how those showed up in my life on the outside. So super excited about that. Looking to get a break at some point and to get started writing on that. And while we. On the subject of book. Are you going to write another book?

I knew you were going to ask me that.

How to turn the tables.

I need help. Shaka.

I got you. I got you.

I have Some thoughts. I'm just waiting for the thoughts to overflow so that then I have a reason to. You know what I mean? Because writing a book is a. It ain't a light thing. It ain't like a blog post. It is. No disrespect, honey. No disrespect. I'm just saying it is a process.

It is. It truly is. You got to carve out the space to be honest to your writer's voice.

And so.

But, you know, I just think that your voice is such a tremendous voice. And even in this space, like, I'm deeply appreciative that we're able to have these real conversations. And, you know, the way you and I connected was, like, the craziest thing ever.

The craziest story. We talked about it in the last interview, but you should go watch that.

Go watch that old interview, and you'll see how we met. But, you know, ever since then, it's been 100. And I appreciate it. And the way you've picked up the mantle for this issue, like, that really means a lot. Cause your voice is so powerful in this space.

Thank you, man. Thank you for everything you've taught me so far. I really do appreciate that, too. We met just to tell you, if you haven't seen the interview. We met at the White House at an event for criminal justice reform. And I was a. I was a baby to this issue. I mean, I knew of the problems. I knew of people I knew of, you know, just. I didn't know what was happening in terms of reform and what was possible and what some, you know, I didn't know. And so that was the beginning for me. And I shared. And we shared that day together. And then we were, like, there. We didn't know each other. We were in line, and we just started talking.

For me specifically, you was in line to meet the president?

I was in line to meet the president.

To take a photo.

I was in line to take a. I had just seen Van Jones. Van Jones had just said this amazing story about his friend who was this activist, and they won't let him in the building because he's a. You know, he was incarcerated. And. And he. And. And Van telling the story, he got so choked up. And so then I'm in line to meet the president after. And Shaka's in. In the hallway area.

President Obama, to be specific. Let's be clear about that.

Yes, please. I would not wait there. I wouldn't wait, please. Anyway, so we're standing in the hallway and. And we just started talking, and then he asked me what's been the best part of the day so far? And I was like, the best day is Van told me the story about this guy named Shaka. And it was you and you right there. We've been friends and connected ever since. But I've really learned a lot from both you and Van. And, you know, in learning it, it makes me so. A lot of things make me angry, but then it also inspires me to want to talk to people like you even more.

And I mean, and that's the part of it like Van. In that moment, Van humanized a person. I wasn't a statistic or a number. And it touched your heart, and it opened up your heart space, and here we are. And so I think that's what release will do for people. Like, it's really going to open up the conversation, open up hearts, and people are really going to see the humanity of this story. And it's, you know, and at points it can be really sad. And, you know, sometimes it's funny and enlightening and, you know, it's just such an important part of the conversation, and I think it's going to move the needle that much more.

I can't wait to see it.

I'm looking forward to it.

Congratulations. Shaka Sanghor, Activist, best selling author, television producer yeah. Release on own. Everybody, check it out. Must see. Must see.

Thanks so much, y'.

All. Thank you, baby.