Tammy McSimov with Shane Mac

Hello everyone, welcome to the Ask Interview Series. I am so excited to have my mother on the show today, and we talk about everything from her career— 39 years still at the same job— how she's grown, learned. She started before they even had computers and she was on a typewriter. We get into love, divorce, family, and really finding what makes you happy. I hope you enjoy this. Here from LA, not Illinois.

That's right.

Big move.

Yeah.

How's it feel to be a California lady?

I love it. Yeah, absolutely love it.

It's been raining ever since you've been there though.

Yeah, but it's still 60° and rain is better than Illinois weather.

My mom just moved from Peoria, Illinois to Laguna Niguel, which is Laguna Beach. Do you have your local bar yet?

Oh yeah, I got a couple of them.

Yeah, what do you got?

Well, I have the little Signature Sports Bar. That's like my little comfort zone. It's 5 minutes from my house. They have great food, great soups. Go there at least 2 times a week. Order my food, sit there and talk to the locals there. Have like 2 beers there while I'm waiting on my food, then go home and I'm in for the night.

So. So I have one question. So here's what I'm— you've been at Lonza where you've worked for 30-some years?

Be 39 years this year.

39 years. So in a millennial world where all those young people switch jobs every 4 hours, that's kind of crazy. 39 years.

39 years at the same company. However, I have had, you know, I was trying to figure this out last week, how many different positions I've had.

What did you start as? How old were you when you started?

I was, I started in September, so I turned 21 in October. So I started right before my 21st birthday.

So you couldn't even drink the day you started?

Yeah, but I didn't drink back then at all anyway. No. So yeah, so I started there when I was 21, basically. And what is Lonza? Well, Lonza is a huge biotech company, but we also have several other divisions. And I work in the specialty chemicals division, which is like health, hygiene, personal care, nutrition, and then we also have, you know, water. We have a huge water division. So, Lonza's huge. I mean, we have like 12,000 employees.

Don't you also make the base product for most cancer drugs?

We have. That's in our biotech. So we like, we partner up with like the Eli Lillys of the world and Eli Lilly is a pharmaceutical company, correct? Yeah, they're a pharmaceutical company, but, and then other biotech companies. But we do a lot of the R&D work for the cancer drugs, but we don't actually market the drugs. We do a lot of the research and development work to find the cures for cancer and other.

Got it.

But then we also have the manufacturing facility that makes the drug. So like we are contract manufacturer for the, the companies that actually are marketing.

So back to you, first job.

Oh, first job. So when I first started, I worked in the engineering department as the engineering secretary.

Where were you at?

Huh?

Pekin, Illinois?

Mapleton, Illinois. Yeah, Mapleton.

So which is outside of Peoria?

Outside of Peoria, yeah. So when I first started, I I started in the engineering department, so I was in charge of keeping track of all the capex, you know.

What's capex?

Capital expenditures.

Oh, got it.

So capital expenditure projects at the plant, I tracked all the expenditures, you know, did all the reporting for that. At the same time though, I was actually going to ICC and to Bradley.

ICC is the local community college.

Local community college, yeah. But then I was also taking some classes for data processing back in the day.

Well, like SQL, like what was data processing back in the day?

It was, it was all— it was— now you put me on the spot here because I'm trying.

It was all good. Just talk.

It was computer program. It was programming. Got it. Yeah. So I took like 3 classes in computer programming at Bradley. And actually, I was at Lanza when we got our first computer.

So, no, no, wait, hold on.

No, no, we didn't have computers.

So when you started, so you were typewriting?

Yeah, we used typewriter.

No way.

No. Yeah. And actually, I had files, you know, I had these big files. So like if we had a project, you know, like I logged in the invoices and, you know, you had, you had your starting capital money and then you had to keep track of it on a on a balance sheet and then monthly report what we spent. It was all—

And you made the balance sheet by hand or with the typewriter?

No, it was all by hand.

This is insane. That's amazing.

We used to have these blueprints. We had like a 5-year, 10-year, 20-year plan for the facility. I used to color with colored pencils. I'm not— I'm fucking serious.

I love when my mom cusses.

It was like, you know, blue was the— is somebody listening? No. Oh, blue was like the 5-year plan. I don't know. So, and you know what? On that plan, from the time I started, we had an office building. They just built the sucker 2 years ago.

So 39 years later.

39 years later, they finally got it.

Did they use your colored pencil reporting?

I have no idea.

So what was the first computer? Hold on. What was the first computer?

Okay, so the first computer was a Hewlett-Packard and it was the old touchscreen.

Wait, the touch— like, now is— I thought today's touchscreen.

Yeah, but this was the, this was the old touchscreen. So we— and here's, here's the deal. So we got one computer, one computer. Okay, so we had, we had a room and we had a, we had a schedule. Okay, so back then we were using, uh, WordPerfect, um, so So I was taking classes for WordPerfect and classes for, wasn't Excel back then, what in the hell was it? Lotus.

Lotus Notes?

Lotus Notes.

I remember Lotus.

No, it was Lotus, yeah. So, but anyway, we had to schedule our time.

To use a computer.

To use a computer. And we didn't even have any programs. Everybody was just like trying to learn how to use Word. We used to have Twix machines. Do you know what a Twix machine is?

No, what's Twix?

It's like an old, it was a typewriter type thing. So like I'd have to send, monthly reports to Basel, Switzerland. And so I'd have to type everything and then you hit this button and it transferred the information to Basel over this TWIX machine.

What does TWIX stand for?

Hell, I don't know. It's a transmitter, whatever, wire transfer or something.

And that's how you would send it back to corporate?

That's how we would send our monthly reporting. I'd have to sit there and type it all up.

So a lot of logistics involved with your business, obviously. Transporting chemicals across the United States, the world.

Right.

How do— without a computer, are you just on the phone doing logistics all day, like scheduling?

Yeah, actually I wasn't in logistics at that time, but I can tell you that I remember back in the day, and these guys that did like the production schedule, I mean, everything was manual. Everything was manual.

And so a computer to you is like changed the world.

Oh yeah. So let me go on with my story.

Yeah, yeah. No, but so what did you do next?

Well, okay, so we had the— got the first computer. So, you know, I was like the most knowledgeable person. So we were getting our first large computer, which was an AS/400.

AS/400.

Hewlett-Packard. I think it's Hewlett-Packard.

Is that a touchscreen as well?

No, this was a huge, huge—

like supercomputer.

This was like a mainframe.

And what was it supposed to do?

This was— we were going to have all of our financial— we had all kinds of programs corporate was putting in. OK, but we had to build a room, probably the size of this room.

The size of the room we're in is about 10 feet by 8 feet.

But we had to build a room to hold all the equipment. It was that big. And it had to be air controlled. It had to have air conditioning. We had to have a lock on it, blah, blah, blah. I used to have these great big tapes, tapes that I would do the backup. Every night I had to do the backup tapes for all the information that we put in through the day. And then once a week I had to transport those to Pecan Hospital for outside storage.

At the hospital?

We rented a room there to store our stuff offsite.

And then what did you do? So after this, you have your first computer.

All right, so yeah. So did that. Then from there, I actually— let's see, what did I do next? Okay. So I was in charge of the computer systems.

And you just got that job because you were interested in computers?

I was interested. I was the only one that knew anything about them.

People at the time were like, this is computer stupid.

Yeah. So I did that. And then from there, I was like the administrative assistant to the plant manager. But also I was in charge of accounting.

Did you take accounting? Did you know accounting?

Yeah, but at that time then I went to ICC and I took some accounting classes and cost accounting classes. So, you know, it was kind of like I didn't really have a career, like a path for education, but every time I got into a new job, then I went and took classes to to learn how to do it.

So you never like— you didn't have— you weren't like, I'm really passionate about this in school and then I'm going to go do this. You're like, I'll just be curious and try new things and then learn on the go.

Yeah, pretty much.

Cool.

So, so I did that. And so I did that for a few years and then I actually was kind of like the, the— well, they would call it like the executive administrative assistant to the plant manager, plus then I had all the administrative people reported to me.

Got it.

So, so that was my next, and then I went to, I was an HR manager.

For how long?

I was up for 10 years.

Okay.

Then they put me, we never really had a logistics manager, but when we brought on a new product, our Carbocot line, which was going to increase our production by 55 million pounds a year. We, you know, so our inbound raw materials, outbound shipments was going to like, I mean, it was more than double what we were used to doing. Oh, but prior to that, let me back up. I was on the SAP implementation team when we actually brought SAP online on our mainframe computer.

So, and you were— so now I was an agent. All technology is now SAP.

Huh?

So all the technology is now SAP. Yeah.

Well, yes.

This is how these big companies out here became big companies because they convinced all you guys to use a bunch of shitty software.

Yeah. So SAP is horrible.

No, it is.

But it's what we have and it's all we have.

Yeah.

You know what I'm saying? But we have a lot of offshoot programs now like Workday Business Warehouse. You know, we've got all these.

So let me back up a little bit. So In 39 years—

I forgot to tell you one thing.

Oh, go ahead, go ahead.

But now I've lost my train of thought. Oh, when I was the HR manager, I was on the SAP implementation team. So I was actually writing SOPs for operators, how they were going to input the information. I did training throughout Lonza during that time. We had 2 plants out here, one in Long Beach, one in Compton. We had plants in Pennsylvania, Texas. So I was like doing a lot of traveling back then, doing training and writing SOPs for that. In addition to that, then—

What's an SOP?

Sales Operating Procedure.

Oh, sorry.

I don't— Or System Operating Procedure.

I don't know what that was.

So it's kind of like, you know—

I got it.

How are you going to input your information step by step directions on how you were going to do stuff. And then the other thing I did was we actually were the first plant to do like self-directed work teams. So we took away— we took out supervisors, like off-shift supervisors. And this was like something back in the day, it just was unheard of. You didn't have people working weekends and night shift without a supervisor. So we implemented that.

So unsupervised work?

Yeah, we actually had a work team leader, you know, that was, but they really weren't a leader, a work team leader. It was just, but anyway, so then I was on a kind of a, me and another guy in the organization, we were actually doing training, this is when I was in HR, for the other sites trying to get them to that point, you know, getting, giving people more, voice in their day-to-day work and trusting them to do their job and not have to be told what to do.

A lot of things that are happening today, like really trying to push culture.

Yeah, but I was doing that 20 years ago.

Nice. And did it build a better culture? People stayed longer, people were happier?

Yeah, I mean, people just didn't leave Lonzo.

Amazing.

Yeah. And to this day, we don't have supervision.

Fascinating thing. It's interesting because that's like kind of what everyone preaches today. It's what a lot of people that I've interviewed kind of preach of give control, don't take control, etc. So in 39 years—

and I actually worked with two professors at Bradley for that, with on that.

And what would they— what was the kind of class about?

Their role was—

their—

no, they actually came down and assisted, you know, with how we do that. You know, they were very interested in that concept as well. So We— they actually, you know, they were learning from—

remember their names?

Yeah, Dr. Chuck Stoner and Lori Russell-Chaffin.

Cool.

Both PhDs. And they were what, um, at Bradley? Like, Lori, she has her own, uh, psyche.

What were they doing with you? Sorry.

Oh, so they, they did like management training, you know, together.

Yeah.

Um, they kind of had their own gig up on the side of being there. Being professors at Bradley, but they were also trying to learn from being in a real environment of how you can implement something like that. Cool.

So you weren't in charge of it all. In 39 years, you come across tons of people, obviously.

Yeah.

Who in your life do you think has impacted it most or changed the trajectory of your life the most that you worked with?

Stefan Troeger.

Stefan, and who's that?

He was my boss. He's from Switzerland.

Yeah.

Yeah, he was my boss for probably about 6 years. But—

And what did he do that stuck out?

He was very, very passionate about people. Very passionate about, you know, his position and just very encouraging. I mean, he was the one that told me This was what, probably 12 years ago, 9 years ago, probably 10 years ago. Okay, somewhere around that. When I was a logistics manager, it was like, you know, he was the one that was always pushing me. What are you going to do next? Because really I had tapped out my positions at the plant. So unless I was willing to go to corporate, which I did have a couple of opportunities, but I never wanted to move to New Jersey.

Got it. That's where corporate was.

Yeah. But anyway, he was the one that said, you need to go into sales. I mean, you would be great in sales. And so, I mean, that was— he had that on my career path for the 3 or 4 years that I worked for him. And he was very passionate about that. And I don't know, he was a very honest person. I mean, you— everybody, I can tell you that everybody at the plant respected him because he was just a person of honesty and caring, but very passionate about business and safety and all those types.

Do you think radical honesty is like one of the best traits?

Yes, I do.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

And so You get into sales. Do you have any stigmas around sales? Like salespeople are slimy and sales— I'm not a salesperson.

Like, I don't. I don't at all. I don't. But there are a lot of people that do.

Yeah. Did you have any of that when you just thought of sales? You're like, I don't do sales. It seems kind of like slimy. I always felt like I don't want to be a salesperson, but then it's like, well, you know, there's different, different types of sales.

I can say if you talk about A car salesman? I would say yes.

Yeah.

I don't know. I guess maybe I knew a lot of our salespeople throughout the years.

And so sales to you always had great relationships and it was really just taking care of things.

Yeah.

And people.

Yeah.

Got it. So now you're in Illinois.

Illinois. Oh, no.

So you're still in Illinois, Lanza? So my bigger question is this. How do you get the confidence and not have fear to by yourself move to LA? How did you do it?

How'd I get the confidence to do that?

And not be scared after 39 years to pick everything up by yourself.

Oh, I was ready.

No, I was ready. And move to the West Coast. Because you moved by yourself.

I moved by myself.

And you were ready. You're just—

I've been ready for 4 years.

40?

4 years.

Oh, 4 years. I was like, 40, shit.

I've been handling the West Coast, you know, for the past 3.

So you started coming here and you were like, this is amazing.

Yeah, seriously, there was really— I loved the area. Every time I came here, I seriously, even though I was only here for a week, I felt like a different person. I love the territory out here. I love the customers that I was getting to know. And for me, it was my next step to go to a larger, you know, like a senior account manager to take over a whole territory. I had a lot of distribution, which is— it's not easy to manage distributors. But, you know, this here has given me an opportunity to work with the bigger companies like the Cloroxes and the, you know, people that You know, so I'm going to have to do like— I'm going to have to get up to speed on like sales agreements and contract negotiations, which I did contract negotiations at the plant in a different, you know, in a different environment. But, um, it's all just negotiating.

Yeah. What were you scared of? Were you scared of anything moving?

Was I scared?

Or were you so ready to move you were just like, I'm out?

I wasn't scared of one thing.

Really?

No.

It's so weird because I feel like some, you know, we're from a small town. It's so many people I talk to, the idea of moving is such a scary big thing that even when they're like, I just want to move, I want to get out of here, this place sucks, they're paralyzed by this false fear that it's hard or like, once I move I can never come back.

Oh God, no, no. I got to be honest, when I found out back in April, you know, because when my boss left up here, when he left, that's when I called RVP. I called RVP and I said— well, I got to pull this up this way.

You can pull the mic towards you a little bit. There you go.

I called Mike DiGennaro and I'm very— not to brag or anything, but I'm very well respected within Lonza.

Yeah.

Just be— I think because of the different positions I've had and how I—

I mean, you're there for 39 years.

And I've excelled in those positions.

Yeah.

I haven't just been the, you know, and I've always been the one that's been on like the implementation teams like Salesforce, you know, kind of. I'm always the one stepping up and saying I want to learn more and I want to help and I want to be the one to, you know, fix the processes and or help fix them. But anyway, when I called Mike D 2 days after my boss left, I said, "I don't know what your plans are for the West Coast, but I am gonna tell you that if you are gonna put somebody out there full-time, that person should be me." And he goes, "You wanna move to the West Coast?" And I said, "Mike, I've been telling you for 2 years." And he goes, "I didn't know if you were serious." I said, "I'm ready to go." How did you let him know you were serious?

It's like you had to step up and tell him without being asked.

Huh?

You had to tell him without being asked.

Yeah, I told him.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And you weren't scared to be like, yo, listen, I want to do this.

No, no. The only time I had a little bit of anxiety, I have to be honest, is because when I said that, he's like, so when can you go? And I was like, well, I got to figure some things out because I have a house to sell and I have, you know, I have to— there's just things I have to get work through. You know, he said, He said, "Before you give me your final answer," he said, "I want you to take a couple weeks and then come back to me." I couldn't wait for those 2 weeks to get there so I could go back and say yes. But I was still like, I don't really know exactly how or when. So that's when they came back and they said, "How about we do this? We're going to write you a contract today, you know, right now. And the way the contract's going to read is that by the end of the year, you will be relocated to—" California. And he was like, and if something happens or doesn't, you know, you know, we can extend that, but we can't extend it too long, you know. Yeah.

So where do you think you got all this from? Where did you get the innate curiosity or drive or always willing to step up and just get it done, no questions asked? Like, is it, is it Grandma Naylor? Is it Grandpa? Is it a mixture of both? Is it your brother?

Is it your sister?

Where does it come from?

I know where it comes from. Yeah? A little bit of it was from my mom, to be honest with you. My mom was a working mother, you know, back then when, when a lot of mothers did not work. My mom put herself through beauty school, you know. She cut hair for her whole life, right? Her whole life. And she actually, to be honest, before my dad went to work at Caterpillar, he was a barber and Did all kinds of odd things, sold tires, sold hairspray, sold the— Just did a bunch of random shit. Just a bunch of random, worked at the gas station, you know, and mom was actually like the breadwinner of the family. And so me being the oldest, I have to be honest, I was like the mom. I was cooking, I was doing laundry, I was doing, you know, Saturdays watching the kids and while mom was working. How many siblings? 3.

3. And then you were in charge of all that and she worked all the time, grandma?

Grandma worked a lot of hours, yeah, trying to, you know, so.

And were you middle class, lower, like just scraping by?

Like we were, I would say we were considered, well in Glasser terms, um, We were definitely middle class.

We were not— Glassford is a town of about 1,000.

It was 1,000 people. Yeah, we definitely weren't the low-class people in town, but we were not the higher class either. Yeah, got it.

But so Grandpa's a drunken barber.

Yeah, you know, I wouldn't even say my dad was a drunken barber. My dad was just a— he just was, and he's always that way. He just Dad did what he wanted to do regardless of the fact that he had 4 kids or whatever. And Grandma was always cool with it? Well, no, not really. Not really. But she dealt with it, you know, all those years. So, but you said, you know exactly where you get it from.

So you think you get it from Grandma in that situation?

I think I get some of it from Grandma. I was just, I was a, my mom would tell you this. I just was a perfectionist from the time I was little. And I don't know if that's because they forced me to grow up and they forced me to be, you know, if mom made me be that way. But I don't know. I just think it's just part of my nature and just I was never, I'm never satisfied. I get to a certain point and then it's like I need to do something different or I need to do more. I need to— you know me, I've always been a list person and gotta check things off.

You're never satisfied, you always want to do something more. Let's go there. If we had to say that, do you think it affects your personal relationships or relationships you have? Well, yeah, that you always want more in personal love, marriage. Do you ever think about it? Oh, yeah. That's what you gave me. I was never, never, never satisfied.

Can't settle down. What? Like, yeah, no, that— there is a lot of that. I mean, I'll go back to like when, you know, your dad and I were married. I mean, I felt like my parents have been divorced for how long? 2006. Since 2006. 11 years. 11 years.

And you were married for 20? Almost 25. Wow. Go on. So you can think back.

No, I seriously, I felt like I was the one that wanted to do something different. I always wanted to try something different. I was expanding in my career, which gave me self-motivation. It gave me enjoyment. But your dad was very content with just being at Caterpillar and doing really the same thing. Yeah, same house, same lawn, same whatever.

I mowed that fucking lawn 4 times a week my whole life.

Yeah, you know, and that's like what that— how houses and stuff like that. I mean, I like nice things, don't get me wrong. I really do. I love living in like where I'm living right now, but they don't mean to me what they used to. You know what I mean? It's not like— Huh? Say more. Oh, because I used to be like, kind of like your dad. I mean, I loved our house and then you wanted a bigger house and then you wanted to— But really, since I got divorced, I mean, I loved my condo. It was my own place. I didn't have to answer to anybody. Yeah. I could do my own thing. I love that freedom. I love that freedom.

But what do you mean by you value different things? What do you value now then? You don't value the house and the stuff and the car and the—

I value my freedom right now. Yeah. And my peace of mind. And just, I am so much more relaxed now. I was so high-strung for the last few years. And I mean, I actually can sit down and watch the whole Netflix series of Breaking Bad. No, I'm really—

Which is crazy, by the way.

Oh, it was crazy. Crazy. I had to go back and watch that fucking end like 4 times. I was like, what?

What about, is it season 1, last episode when it all goes to like just completely crazy?

Oh, it was crazy. I had to keep going back and watching scenes over. Sometimes I'd fall asleep.

How did you watch that by yourself? It's kind of—

It didn't really bother me.

I guess it's not that scary.

It's not scary, it's just—

You can't believe shit's happening.

Yeah, it's just like you I can't believe that their life went that bad, you know. But I think that's the real world in those kind of situations. You get in with those people, that drug scene, you're going to be dead. For sure. So, no, I really— I like that kind of stuff. I don't like the scary, scary stuff. But also I've been reading, you know, my—

What are you reading right now?

The Doctor on going to, he wrote a book, you know, it's a healing of the mind and the body. And it's all these— it's very, very interesting because he does not believe in like all these, you know, he's very much against— he's not a traditional doctor, he's very much— he used to be, he's very much against like the— all the opiates, the mood-altering drugs. So he's more into, well, just working on healing yourself, you know, figuring out why you're not well or why you're not feeling good and trying to heal that way. But there's also, and I don't know, I'm not taught, I haven't got through all the book yet, but there's also a real relationship with the mind the, and the body, you know, and if all your neurons aren't, aren't working together, there are drugs that you can take that help bring, you know, make those work together. Yeah. Which then makes you actually feel better, you know. Yeah.

So yeah, I mean, mental health is one of the forefronts of the world right now.

Mental health is, is the, the biggest problem we have, and there are treatments for it. But what doctors are doing today is not the right treatment because what they're trying to treat it with are just drugs that are very addictive. And then the more you take, the more you have to take. So there's never really a cure. 20 years later, you're still taking the same drug, but you're taking 2 or 3 times more of it. And you're not really addressing the whole problem.

It's funny, I was talking to a friend of mine in New York. His name's Michael. He's the— lead singer and guy behind Passion Pit, which is a big band, and he has mental health, bipolar disorder. He has a lot of depression, and he quit taking all medicines about 4 years ago, and he's been in New York University study for 3 years now, and it's all around electromagnetic therapy. And these electromagnets they put on your head, and then they like trace your eyes going back and forth, and over time it trains your brain to come together with those neurons. Oh, and that's fascinating. He thinks magnets in 5 years will solve all mental health, and he won't have it anymore. He won't be bipolar anymore. Like, he's one of the— there's 3 New York University doctors working on his brain, and they think that without drugs they can actually cure the brain, right, from that disorder without any drugs.

Just fascinating. That'd be fascinating. Now, Dr. Corona, the one that I'm going to, there are a few drugs that that he knows will make those work together. And that's what he typically, you know, tries to give his patients and, you know, based on what their symptoms are or whatever. But anyway, back to, you know, so I'm working hard, I'm enjoying my work, I'm relaxed, I'm comfortable in my house, my home. I enjoy, you know, watching a movie now, which I never did before. Why do you think you never did it?

I was just so busy.

I was just always running around. I don't know. Just always had to be busy, you know?

Yeah. And so now you just have this newfound freedom.

Well, and the reason I can say, like, the last few years, the reason I didn't is because I can't stand to sit down in the living room and watch fucking sports all day or something. Yeah. I mean, I could never— I never had a TV that I could actually control or have the controller, and it was just all stupid shit you watch.

And what are you most excited about right now for the next year or a few years?

Well, right now, over the next year, talk about the short term, I'm really very, very focused on my job because I've been put out here to do— to grow this business. I mean, there's expectations on me And so that's my primary focus is, you know, making— doing the job that I know I can do here. And that will bring me great satisfaction to be able to prove that I can do that. But the other thing is just trying to find what I really like to do. Because I don't— I've never really had any hobbies, you know. Yeah, I work, I clean, I work, I clean, cook. I used to cook. I don't cook.

Did you find all these new services when you moved to LA, like Instacart and food delivery and people that can come to your house and fix things and you really don't have to do anything?

You got it. Yeah, I do go to the grocery store though. I don't really— I haven't cooked since you guys were there at Christmas. I really Cooked me— I cooked something on New Year's Eve and I was like, yeah, I said I'm gonna do that. I can go somewhere, I can go to the China— we got a great China place, I can go there, I can $15 get me a sweet and sour chicken or a cashew chicken, it lasts me 2 meals. Yeah, I love it. I can have something different every night, you know, and it's not like I'm eating junk food. I'm not going through McDonald's or You know? Yeah, yeah. I'll go get a nice grilled chicken salad or, you know, so yeah.

So what do you, what are you watching now if the Breaking Bad's over?

I just got done with that. Yeah, so there's a couple other ones people have recommended. One was Mad Men. I don't know. And another one was Shameless. I heard it. So I don't know, but I want to do a little research. I'd like to do, I'd like to watch actually like a kind of a documentary, but I got to figure out which, which one. Yeah, you know, I mean something that's real, you know, that is of interest to me.

So when you think about finding hobbies, where do you, where you even start? What do you think? What do you think you'll love? You're on the West Coast, so you can do anything. You have tons of interest in LA. Mm-hmm. You could be on the water. You can be like, what are you, what are you thinking?

Well, one, I really just love to go down to the beach and just kind of like even just sit at the beach, you know what I mean?

So maybe just go down there and— I mean, meditation is a huge thing in the world.

Maybe read at the beach. But, you know, and also my neighbor, she walks a lot, her and another girlfriend. And they, you know, I told her, I said, I need to get a little more— not that she's in really great shape, but they love to walk and they walk, both of them. So, and when the tide— when it's low tide, you know, during the summer and stuff, they do a lot of walking on the beach. So I told her, I said, I need to do a little walking around the subdivision here to get myself kind of up to speed. But, but also getting into some, you know, there's a couple organizations out here. One for work is the Society of the Cosmetic cosmetic industry. It's part of the chemical industry, and I heard they have a, like, a tremendous, tremendous chapter right in my area there. You know, a lot of, a lot of social events you go to, and, you know, just meet people in that industry.

So what, what is something else that 20 years ago you believed was true but you don't believe today? Something that you changed your mind about. That 20 years ago you thought, this is, this is how life is, this is what's— this is the right answer, this is what's true. And then today you're like, I was completely wrong. Or you've just changed your mind on what drives you or makes you happy.

I don't know, that's a hard question. I'd have to think about that.

We don't need easy questions. We have all the time in the world to think. So think about a moment in time. It's much easier to think about where you were 20 years ago. And something. Do you believe in marriage?

Do I believe in marriage?

Do you believe that you need to be married to be happy? One. Two, do you believe that marriage is something that everyone should aspire to do? No. Why?

Because I, I, because I guess because it didn't work out for me.

But now that it didn't, it's like Do you need to be married to be together with someone? What do you get from it?

Like what? Well, at this, at this point, at this age, at this point in my life, there's, there's no benefit to getting married. Okay. Absolutely none.

Yeah. Okay. Like, what would you get from it?

No. What would I— I wouldn't get it. In most cases, I wouldn't get anything, but I'd give up a lot. It's close to home. So, no, and you know what? I just, I gotta be honest, since your dad and I got divorced, when I moved in that condo, I had this freedom that I hadn't had for a long time, and I liked it. Yeah. And you know, that was how many years ago? That was 11 years ago. I've never remarried. I don't care. There's a lot of people that say, "Oh, I'm just so in love," and they get along. Maybe there are people like that. I don't fucking believe it. There's too many compromises. It's like, "Oh, you got to compromise." And then I always was the type of person that I was always the one that wanted to please everybody. Well, then I became everybody's caregiver, and no matter what relationship I get into. Yeah, I'm not doing that again.

Is it because you were always so caring and you were always the one doing all of— making sure that everything was right for everyone? And that's completely exhausting?

Yeah, no, it's exhausting.

You know, I think that's where— is there a hybrid approach to relationships called Mare? That's like, hey, half the time we spend together, half the time we don't. I mean, I'm looking for that right now. I'm searching around.

Yeah, I still think there's that still when you're together with someone. There's still— there becomes this— I don't know, it's just like there's expectations.

It's so interesting to me, like jealousy. I don't really have it, but when it does hit, it's like this powerful drug that you hate, and it's the worst emotion ever. It's terrible. And then you go further on that and like you do like and believe that there would be someone that like we both do our own things, we both make each other better, we both have our own passions, own beliefs, own things we love, and we let each other do that and not like stab each other for like, oh, play another show, do another thing. Like, you're like, oh God, I gotta like make— I don't want to tell this because like now, you know, in my life everything they loved about me is everything they hated in the end. Yeah, it's like, oh, I love that you play music. And 3 years in, they're like, play another fucking guitar. And you're like, oh God, what the fuck? Like, I just want to play music.

No, you're exactly right. And that's, that's where—

where does it— where does like the hostility always come from? Like, how do— maybe we just suck at relationships. I think we do. I'm like, how does—

you know, well, I think, I think, but also I think a part of it's my—

part of it's my fault because for me, huh, for me you mean, or for yourself? For myself.

Oh, probably for me too, but Because I'm the type of person that when I do something that I know is very self-centered because I want to do it, I feel bad. I feel guilty.

Interesting. I do. I have the same drug.

I feel guilty.

So then I just ignore it so I don't have to deal with it. Well, but it's actually why I think I've been good to work with is because when I'm caring about other people, I make sure that I always get it done. But it's draining in personal life, so I just don't do it.

It's good in the work— and you're absolutely right. It works great in the work environment. It works great. But in relationships, for me, you know, if I— you know, and I always was this way, you know, like, just to like go shopping or something, you know, I couldn't even enjoy it because I felt guilty because I should be home doing something, or I shouldn't be leaving your dad alone, or I shouldn't be leaving Mike alone, or, you know, I can't be me because of this thing.

Exactly. And your whole life is just drained by never being able to be yourself.

And for me, I think all the years of, you know, I think the last few years, yeah, 8 years, you know, trying, trying to to fix the situation with my dad and my mom and my sister. And I'm just to the point where I'm not gonna fucking fix anybody anymore. I gotta fix myself because what it was doing, it was killing me. I mean, inside I was dying because I could not fix it. All these things. All I can see is that I'm in another situation where Tammy's not going to be able to live. Yeah. I'm not going to live because I'm going to be miserable.

So leaving for you is almost saving your life.

I would say leaving for me was saving my life. Wow. I have no guilt. It's time I live my life. And do what I want to do. That's amazing. Yeah.

Anyway, that's my life story. What else? And you want to— what else you have to say? Anything?

No, I'm, I'm so excited to be closer to you. Yeah, I really am. Me too. I'm excited to be closer to—

one hour flight away.

Yeah, I'm excited to be closer to Max. Um, but I'm really excited, uh, Taylor's coming in a couple weeks. You know, so I'm kind of excited to have her come out.

She's 20 now? 20. It's my sister's niece, my niece, my sister's daughter. Right. Is she bringing her boyfriend? No. No. What are you and Taylor gonna do?

Well, I'm gonna work. I told her, I said I can't take the whole week off, so I'm gonna work mornings and I know we're gonna plant, We're gonna plan things that girls want to do, you know. Cool. So get your nails done. Uh, why? She— I have her a hair appointment one day, but I want to— if it's nice, I want to go to the beach. I want to go down to Laguna Beach, walk around there, go to the beach. Um, you know, we can do some shopping down in Dana Point. I know she wants to go to, you know, that big— the big mall, um, Fashion Island. Mall one afternoon. So cool. We're just going to do stuff like that. All right.

Anything else?

Go out to eat.

Just living the life. Just living the life. Laguna Beach, LA life. Yeah. All right. Well, thank you for the fun little podcast session. Any other— any parting words?

But went back over all my life. I'm surprised I remember half the shit. No, it's great. So it's my life to say I want— was that to say you want to change?

Is that Bon Jovi? Yeah.

It's my life now or never. Yeah. Love my Google Home too. I just play those, all those songs that make me feel good. As soon as I get off work, I go down and say, okay Google, play me this. And I'm dancing around my living room and I'm I do.

What do you use your Google Home for?

Huh?

What do you use it for? Just music?

Oh, hell yeah, just music.

I just have music going all the time. That's amazing. All right. Well, I love you. Thank you for doing this. I love you too.

Bye.