Bar Tips: The Hospitality Of Sales with Neil Rogers

Hey, it's Sean. Welcome to the Meaningful Revolution podcast where we hope to inspire you to your purposeful journeys and pursuits by interviewing people that are very passionate about their life.

The things that they do.

And so today's guest is just that. He's an expert in sales that has had over three decades in sales and marketing as a job and wrote the book Bar Tips. Everything I Needed to Know in Sales, I Learned behind the bar. And what I really love about our conversation is just how authentic Neil is in sharing his story and struggling to find out what his purpose was, but realizing he had an interpersonal intelligence that was his strength and that led him into really becoming successful, successful in sales and marketing and how he developed his philosophy of around sales.

Right.

Which is essentially, you're in hospitality, you're always trying to create experience, you always are trying to build relationships, you always need to be organized in order to make sure that you're ready for opportunity when it presents itself. Also on top of that, he has a program called Positive Activity, which is, which is developing the mindset to be consistent to show up being your best in a problem solving, growth focused mindset, which I as a coach love mindset. So it was fantastic that we were able to talk about that a bit. But at the end of the day, I think you're gonna love this conversation as much as I did with Neil Rogers. Without further ado, let's get into the episode.

Episode. Hey everyone. Welcome to the Meaningful Revolution podcast where we hope to inspire you into your passions by interviewing people about their passions. Our guest today has over three decades and career or a three decade career in sales and marketing working in numerous different industries. He's the owner of Rogers Marketing and creator with his wife of Positive Activity process, which helps increase people's quality of life through creativity, optimism and positivity. His recent book, Bar Tips Everything I Needed to Know in Sales, I Learned behind the Bar shows what he learned as a bartender that helped him lead a purposeful and successful life and career. I am really honored to introduce our guest today, Neal Rogers. Neil, welcome to the podcast.

Hey, Shane, how are you doing?

Great. First off, could you share since you wrote the book Bar Tips Everything I Need to Know in Sales, Learn behind the Bar. How did you develop your passion for sales?

As it says, it started behind the bar I enjoyed. So when I was floundering through school, trying to figure out what I was going to do, I took a couple of swings and misses at school and then started working in the hospitality business and had been working in the Hospitality business kept going and I wound up as a bar back and which is the, the slavery of bartending. The guys that do all the work and grab the ice and all that and then decided I want to be a bartender because that looked cool, right? That was the whole criteria for it at the time. At 19 years old and set my sights, I got a bar job. I put down my first drink in somebody in front of somebody and I loved the immediate feedback of giving them what they were looking for and serving them. So I how I got onto the whole making solution, providing understanding their needs and getting them what they want, making suggestions. Maybe you should try this simple things. Right. And. But when I took it, when I failed out of school for the second time, I, I knew I still need people would say with your interpersonal skills, you'd probably be good in sales. So now I still have to, I still have to go get a, you know, a degree. So I, but I went back differently, I attacked it differently. I now had a passion, had a better direction, a vision, if you will. And, and I went back and I became a very successful student. And I did it by accidentally figuring out, doing some sales techniques, which was I showed up, I actively listened, I took notes, paying attention. I took advantage of any of the extra help they offered. If they asked for an answer during class, I would chime in, I would participate. And so it would be my guess if I was on the cusp of getting an A or a B minus, I get the A or B plus, I should say. Yeah. So that's how it counted. Just felt. And then I started selling after, after, right after I got married, I stopped, I stopped working the bar and then I was just full time sales.

Right on. Yeah. So I love that you, when you're explaining that you call out your interpersonal skills and I know you've talked about the different types of intelligence that people have or can have and could you maybe go through. Did you read that book and then it clicked for you or was it something you stumbled on?

It's almost everything in this gig is retrospect. Right.

Okay.

It just all happened and then it worked out that. Oh yeah, that explains that, right? No, this guy actually he wrote the forward in the book, introduced me to the book, the frames of mine. It's a big long book. I'm not even going to claim I read it. I read the chapters I needed to read about the different types of intelligence and it's just one of the things, one of those things I wish I knew back then because I wouldn't have had such a bad feeling about myself that my academics. I always joke that my, my, my class rank and my combined SAT scores have got one thing in common. They were both in the triple digits. So my academic prowess wasn't there. It wasn't that I failed out. It wasn't that I was unintelligent. I just, it just wasn't my, My, the book learning just wasn't my forte and. But I did do well in certain, certain things that were logical and quant and built upon each. On each other. Quantitative methods, math problem math and whatnot. Because I was pretty good in accounting. I was actually, when I did get back to school, they asked me, do you want to be a tutor? Me? Sure, why not? I'll try. So, yeah. Yeah, the. I got derailed there. What was that? What was your question?

Oh, it's just about discovering the, the different types of intelligence.

Okay. So yeah, so what I learned was that now in retrospect that interpersonal skills there is interpersonal intelligence, there is intrapersonal intelligence. So self awareness. And so I had that. I have a little musical intelligence. So it's. And then I do have academic intelligence. It's just, it's more. Most of what I learned was street smarts was doing it, learn by doing so.

Right on. Do. Do you think that discovering. Looking back, you can identify it as that social, interpersonal intelligence, but discovering that, oh, I'm really good at this. How did that shape how you felt about emotionally, about learning it in school? Because from your story, it sounds like you tried school and it wasn't your thing. It wasn't your thing. And then you found your thing. Yeah. And then you're like, oh, I get it now. And everything seemed to align behind it. How did that. Is that correct or.

That's spot on. Yeah. When I went back to school for the final time, I just, you know, I didn't want to fail. I had a reason for being. I knew where I was going previous to that. It was just, it was just giving it a shot. All right. I guess this is what. So when I graduated high school, I was 17 years old and I was the seventh of eight of an Irish Catholic family. So nobody's paying attention. Right. So it's not like it, it's not like it is today where we've got our kids lives playing from DNA right up until. I don't even know. Whenever we let them go, I think we're always way more involved than our parents. My parents were no axe to ground with. My parents I love my parents. But. But yeah. So it's. That's how it evolved.

So I guess throughout that whole experience. How did you mention that one of the programs you run is the positive activity? Did I get that right? How does that come into play with your story coming up? Have you always. Were you always positive and optimistic and creative or was there a time where you struggled with that?

There's a time when I struggled with just about everything about go that get in line. Right. Who we're all had. But until I got to the. To the schooling that I finally figured out what the algorithm is. The par in today's parlance. Yeah, you should show up. Whoa, what is who to thunk that or that you should listen and you should actively participate. So that's really where. Where the rubber met the road, as it were. And I just built upon that. And that's the same stuff I did when I went out on the road. I showed up more than anybody else. I was more organized. I was trying to be nicer, more accommodating, ask better questions, listen better. Two ears, one mouth. Listen. Use them in that proportion. That's how we were built. So. Yeah, so that's. And so we did. I did that in all the businesses that I've been successful in. I've had a couple. I've had a swing and a miss. But when I look back on that, it's because I got away from these principles that you see in the book. Right on.

Awesome. And one of your previous interviews, I noticed you mentioned that the way that you. The philosophy you've developed about sales is really that you're in the hospitality industry. I know it came from a talk that you. I think it was a talk. Correct me if I'm wrong on that.

That was the realization. Right. There was a. The. There was a gentleman who gave the keynote speech at a chamber event where my daughter was being honored. And he was the guy who brought five guys burgers here to New Hampshire. That's where he. His pregame speech to all of his employees when they opened up the shop was we're not in the burger business. We're not in the fry business, the soda business. We're not in the shake business. We're in the hospitality business. And I looked at my wife, who's who I met point of context, as when I was a bartender and she was a food waitress. I looked at it, I said, I've never left the hospitality business. I've been bartending on the road for years. And. And so all those things Building upon, building upon that. And then I did things innately because of. Maybe it was because of that experience, maybe not, I'm not sure. But back to the positive thing I did the I would, when I first went out on the road in the food business, I would tape little notes to myself on the dashboard. Stay out on the road, we're just getting started. Be positive, make more calls. Right? And I don't know why I did it. I just did it. It wasn't like I didn't read any book on it. But in retrospect there's lots of books on it and mine, mine happens to be one of them. But I practice practical application and positive activity is just where you get your mindset right first. Right. So you want to be in a place of positivity. So then you can, then you're in a. Then that takes you into a space of open minded, divergent thinking. Solution providing creativity. You don't see problems anymore, you only see solutions. You're not sitting there all lathered up because somebody did something right. You've got your mind, you're ready to go. And then whatever your productivity steps are after that depends on what you're trying to accomplish. In the book, we outline our business development steps. Thought that would be germane to a lot of people that would write, that would read the book. But I also use those steps in my music, right? And I get, I like to give anything 90 days of, of, of a, of a pro and just say, okay, after 90 days, where's your piano playing going to be? Where's your singing going to be? If you do these five things every five days a week, it's going to be better. It's going to be ex, exponentially better. My Carnegie hall, probably not, but for my own personal gratification, yeah, but if you're going to go to business development and you're going to, you're going to go out and start, start a business, start a sales territory, whatever that may be. Do you know who can buy what you sell? Do you have a benefit statement? What are they going to get from working with you? Can you articulate that on one sheet of paper? Now that you've determined who can buy what you sell, who the heck are they? Let's get some lists together. Who do you know? The group you know the group you meet the group you buy. Group. Group is your network, your, your immediate network. And then they should know what you're doing because they can be what a referral source. And we always want referrals. Much better to tee those up than to. Than the group you buy, which is the last group you want, some listserv or whatever. And then those and those that you meet, what type of networking opportunities are you going on? Are you ready at a moment's notice to give your. Your elevated pitch, your 30 second commercial, whatever that may be, in order to get some sort of feeling as to whether or not you're hitting the. You're hitting the. You're hitting a chord. And then we propose in positive activity that you have campaigns set up for follow up on each of those groups. Right. So you, as an example, if you meet somebody at a chamber event or cocktail party or Christmas party coming up, right. And you tell them what you do. I'm a certified health high performance coach. What does that mean? It means this. That's interesting. Great. What are you going to do? You think he or she is sitting there waiting for, waiting by the phone for you to call? Nope. So what's your process to get them in queue? How are you going to systematically market to them? Because we believe in the seven touch theory, that conventional wisdom says in order to get somebody's attention, you have to hit them at least seven significantly times. Seven times of significance. So something different. Don't sit there and leave them seven voicemails. Not gonna work. Don't sit there. And I did my email marketing. I guess I'm good now. No, no need to send them something. You need to get in, get in. Because now it's difficult to get to meet them. It's like, how are you going to get that first meeting? And that's an art form these days. We used to do it by walking in the door. Can't do that anymore. Some of the businesses that were in, you could. There was a lot of wholesale to retail, wholesale to restaurants, wholesale to sporting goods stores and shoe stores. But now our business for the last 27 years, we used to be able to walk into a lobby. Can't do that anymore. Can't leave something behind in the lobby. No. Nobody wants to see that. What's in this thing?

Yeah.

So that's when we say if you go through that over 90 days, you won't recognize where you've been. I'm like, holy Toledo. I've got momentum. There's a multiplier effect that goes on with that. If you do this every day, if you get in your mind, if you stay creative, if you look at things differently. Okay, so that did that approach. Didn't work. What else could work is somebody. I really Want to meet. I really believe they can buy what I sell. I believe I can help them sincerely. Right. So how do we, how do we get that first meeting and then how do you conduct the first meeting? It's all part of positive activity. It's the last step. How are you gonna, how are you going to set up the 15 minute coffee call where you get it all done? There's a great thing. I'm not big on sales techniques, but one that I really think was good. I've seen it in two, done two ways. One is Sandler Sales. There's something called the upfront contract. So that's where you sit down at that coffee meeting. And we propose, we prescribe that you have your one sheeter, right, that describes your offering and you use those as talking points to get through the meeting. But it's more about them. Right? We want to hear from them. So it's about. Okay. So how much time do we have again here, Shane, today? Oh, 15 minutes. Great. What I'd like to do, I'd like to tell you a little bit about me. I want to hear a lot about you and what the challenges you have. And then I guess we can determine at that point what the next step might be. If there is one. You're not putting it on them. You're not trying to close them right out of the gate. They don't feel threatened. I can tell a closing technique, a quick one out of the gate. It's all mad, really. I'm too old for this. Please don't try to close me on day one.

Fair enough.

Yeah. So, yeah, so that's where the positive activity thing comes in. And so activity begets activity. So you just keep going and doing this stuff every day and following up and doing the process. And like I said, there'll be a multiplier effect. You go, Whoa, I get 10 appointments, I get four sales. I've got whatever it is, my piano. I feel better playing the piano, feel better singing, feel better at racquetball, if that's even a sport anymore. Pickleball, let's say pickleball. I've done something every day in a half hour or so to get better at that sport.

I love the idea and consistency and a lot of my clients, that's what I work on with a lot of the people I coach because half of it is, I believe, just showing up. I think naturally people get bored doing the same thing over and over. You're just naturally going to be like, how do I do this A little bit differently If I'm not doing it at the result that I want, I need to switch it up. And I found that to be hugely effective. So I really do love that call out and that the activity gets activity. I'm a kinesathetic learning also meaning that what I loved about coding is you do it, it works. It doesn't. Computers are very brutal and truthful in that way.

Right.

And so you can always know if you're on the right track or not, or it's maybe not. So in other industries, I'm curious if you were to give like a couple of pieces of advice to a beginner who's just maybe starting in a sales type position. I know we've talked about a lot of things already, but if you could sum it up into maybe two or three things to really focus in on, to start on the right foot in a sales position. Do you have any bits of advice that would come up to mind right away?

Oh, no question. Be organized.

Be organized.

Okay. What does that mean?

You can never be over organized. So I'll give you an example. So when I was in the. So my first job, my first successful job, I should say, where I used the process was I was selling food or a distributor back into restaurants, us back in my gig, right? And. That day ended at 2:30, right? Because you could not, you couldn't. If you couldn't. If you couldn't get the orders in by 2:30, you couldn't ship them the next day. When I had, I had accepted a job to go from, we just started making money, doing pretty well selling for these guys. Took a territory from. I think it was like, I want to say it was 150,000 to a million five in 18 months just from doing the stuff and showing up and all that. But I was asked right after we got married by a friend of mine if I'd like to go work with them as a manufacturer's rep in the sporting goods business. And I knew they were very successful, so I said sure. So I went, now I'm making nothing, so I'm going back. So it was real entrepreneurial venture, I think. I think they offered me a small draw or something, but I had to pay it back. So if I could live without it. And my wife was working at the time, so that worked out. But at 2:30 when the day was done, I go home, I break out maps. And now I'm now instead of just working around Boston, I'm working all of New England or significant portion of Philly, right? So I get on the road, I got to plan my days. So I took blank maps and I plotted all the customers because I got all the, I got all the information from the, from my, my, the guys that I was working with, from the lines that we represented. And I just put them all with phone numbers and all that. And then I, I got all my samples, I organized all my samples. So now I'm still making money with someone else, not doing anything wrong because the day is done. I told him exactly what he's doing. There's no problem. They just want to make sure I was maintaining the customers in my two week period. And so I was ready to go day one to sit there and make phone calls or maybe just get in my car and go. So whatever I couldn't get appointments on, I would just fill them with. Stop it in, drop it up. Now I've started my process. Drop it in. I'm being nice, I'm not being intrusive. I'm with this, I represent these brands, yada, yada yada, when, when's a good time to see. So you just getting a report started, a relationship started. But I was ready to go day one. Now if you go work for a company. So I was working for my man pretty much. I've always worked for pretty much myself the whole time. And I didn't, I. There was no safety net, right? There's no six months of four grand a month and car and expenses and all that. It was like it was me. So I had to get going as fast as I could and I did. So we started out, I think the territory was, I think I want to say it was $250,000 in sales, which equated to about $5,000 in commission, maybe 7. No, obviously, if 250 would probably. Let's say it's 8, 8,000, right? So now I got to pay my expenses out of there, my sample bill, all those things. Four years later, using my little process, positive activity, 10 million.

Wow.

Showing up, being prepared. So organization, I think is the first thing. The first thing, honestly, I think they need all the tips that are in the. They should school themselves. They should get all the tips that are in the. How are they? How do they greet people? You can always be better at greeting people. You're in the hospitality business. Smile, say hello to everybody. When you go for a walk, when you're in a bar, in a restaurant, say hello, how you doing? What's going on? How's your day? Let's get it started. Get that vibe going funny. My Oldest brother. One of. One of my older brothers, I should say that I walk with. He's a retired teacher. He's now 75. Right. He will go walking around our hometown. We split our time between here and another town. And I'll walk with him and I'll say hello to everybody. Good morning. How are you? How's the day? Isn't it beautiful? He doesn't say a word. He's not a sales guy.

Yeah.

You have to like people. You have to want to sit at the bar, sit at the counter, talk to people in various. I went to. We went to. Where you stationed.

Shane grew up in Chicago, now in San Francisco Bay area.

Oh, see, you're out in the. You're on the left coast. So we went to. So this is food. You just. So we went to Nantucket last week.

Okay.

And so we got. We were taking a boat at 1:15, sat at the bar at the Landing Cafe and struck a conversation with the two people next to me and that young couple in their mid-30s or so and great people. And they looked successful. They just ooze success. They were. And they were outgoing and whatnot. And of course, I can't help but ask Weasel in a message about the book. Oh, really? You wrote a book? I said, yeah, break out your Amazon. Order the book. So we got that going. We saw them again over in the island. My daughter winds up knowing the woman she was with us. They played. They had some lacrosse affiliation with. He texts me today because he works in my hometown and he says, got your book today. I want to stay in touch. Let's get it. Can we have lunch? Sure. You got to want to do that stuff. And I want to do that stuff. I want to. I just. I'm intrigued by them. They're nice people. I like to be around young people. I don't want to be a pathetic old guy hanging around with youngins. But. But it's. But yeah. So that's the type of things I think they need to be doing. Being out, even if you don't think it's worthwhile. This meet. This conference never works or this never go and meet. Go to meet people. That's what I think. I'm old school, though.

I love it. I think it can be really. Having grown up with technology and just seeing how aunts and uncles or my parents will act, you go out to dinner or whatever, just like talking to people around you. It's admirable. I think it's a lost art. I think as much as technology can connect people it's also created a weird barrier, in a sense.

So you're segueing right into one of my speeches.

Oh, excellent.

Tech is no threat to me. Okay. So, sure, a lot of good things have happened with tech over the last 50 years. Cell phones that act like mini computers, streaming services for movies, streaming services for music, email marketing, social media marketing. Amazon has changed the landscape of shopping. Explain this to me. Why do people sit in coffee shops and want to talk? Why was Barbie a phenomenon this year? Why did Taylor Swift sell out every major stadium? And oh, by the way, just made it to the COVID of Time today. I saw.

Oh, wow, okay.

There's a shoe store in this town. Alex Shoes. He's busy. On a Tuesday in February. I know February doesn't mean as much to you, but here in the north is northeast. Tuesday in a. February is freezing and it may be snowy. You'll walk in there. And then finally, did you know that direct mail marketing is up in 2023? So it's a metaphor we use that I use. And I actually, I r. Indeed it. Do you know what that means? Researched and developed, ripped off and duplicated.

Same. Ish.

A friend of mine, actually my daughter's friend, he. We became friendly too, wrote this thing on AI and he said, the metaphor we use is. Have you ever seen the movie Good Will Hunting?

Yes. Oh, yeah.

Okay. There's an iconic scene in the movie where Sean Robin Williams character is yet again frustrated with Will, Matt Damon's character. And they're sitting on a park bench and Roger Robin Williams, best Boston accent, he goes, you don't know what you're talking about. You've never been out of Boston. Oh, sure. I gotta ask you about art and you give me the skinny on every art book that has ever been written, but you can't tell me what the Sistine Chapel looks like or it's how it smells. All those beautiful. What those beautiful ceilings look. So the point of that is. The point of the metaphor is that it's not going to compete with our senses. It just isn't. I don't care what they say. And maybe I'm not doing double blind studies and doing all sorts of. I'm talking about just two guys talking here. And again, using logic. That's sure. It's going to enhance our lives. There's going to be things that we'll use, but it's no threat to me in terms of doing a complex presentation. It may aid in that. Okay, Will aid. Maybe help streamline the copy process. Right. It's not going to close a complex deal. No. And it's not going to, it's not going to have anything like this. And the reason why you think back on those things that we were comparing why back to Taylor Swift. Why, why, why is she so popular? She provides. Right. Full experience. And my wife went for the first time she had never seen her before and she came back, liked her music, came back converted.

Yeah, right.

Just. Now I'm not so sure that would happen to me, but I would have enjoyed it. I know, but I'm not a big stadium guy. I don't like. I love 300 seat venues. I like intimate settings and there's a lot of talent out there. You can find an intimate setting, right? Yeah. But one of the things, the nice, nice book for everybody to think about. And if you haven't read this, I consider, I consider, I think you should consider it. It's a book called the Happiness Advantage. Because you like positivity, right?

Do you know of the book it was. Yeah, I've read it before. It's great.

Sean Acor, right?

Yes.

One of the things that Sean, just one of. Harvard.

Harvard, okay.

And so one of the things that he discovered in all this and all of his research is that the depth and the breadth of our social interactions determine our overall happiness and our longevity. Now take that for what you will, but it sounds pretty good to me. And he's the one that determined that the more positive you sells 37% more, the more positive you is 31% more productive. And if you think about it, if you're in misery, if you're walking around and you're not in that place of creativity because you haven't got your mind right, you're negative and all that. Oh, poor me in and nobody ever calls me back and I can't get a deal done. All this. Give me the good leads. Give me the Glengarry leads. Right. See that movie. No, I have not put that on your list to see.

Okay.

Glengarry Glen Ross, one of the, One of the greatest sales movies you'll ever see.

Okay.

And it's with. And it's got an iconic scene in there by Alec Baldwin. He's the sales. He's the sales manager type from downtown. He's coming in to straighten out the real estate office.

Okay.

But yeah, and yeah, I recommend all of your listeners at least watch the Sean A. Corted talk on the happiness advantage. It's 12 minutes. He doesn't get it all in, but it's pretty compelling and it's A great audible book to listen to over and over.

Excellent. Oh, I love that. And I also believe talking about technology very broadly, like, it's all in service to people, I think, like, people use it, people build with it, people maintain it. I differentiated myself in my career in tech and being the person that, like, what are we like, trying to make sure that things were understandable to humans behind the scenes so you can maintain it better, which seems common sense, but sometimes you get some really insane things. So. Yeah, I love that point. And it's reminded me, too, of another guest I had, Dr. Ahuvia, who did a book on the things that we love and just how with Taylor Swift. And that experience that you were talking about, how. Why sales isn't really. Or why humanity isn't super threatened by technology is because we do everything. I think or he postulates for love. It's a proxy for love. You go to the Taylor Swift with your daughter and have that experience together, and that's like a core memory that you have for the rest of your life. So it's really just. Yeah, that's what came to mind for me.

So last night we went to. I don't know if you know this artist. His name is Brett Eldridge.

I don't. No.

He's a country guy, very good, very talented. Not the twangy, I got my beer, my truck, my girl type country on a different level or sphere or whatever. I don't want to diss the country people, but he did his holiday show last night and we went and my daughter bought it for me. Actually, my daughter and wife bought it for. I think it was my birthday. And we went down. We was in a new place in Boston called the MGM Femway. It's right by Fenway park, as you might well imagine. And they. It was a beautiful facility. It was three jackets, $15 to hang them. They get in you. They get you every which way you can. I think the tickets were $250 a piece and. But it was an experience. The three of us went a Tuesday night. Not usually going out on a Tuesday night, but it's a good experience. And. But here's what I would suggest. I've done it. I won't do it again. What I will do is I'll go see Morgan James, who's from. I don't know if you ever heard of postmodern jukebox, but it's where they take. Yeah, so she used to be a postmodern jukebox, and she's doing her Christmas concert right down the street from our place in Plymouth, Massachusetts with a 300 person venue, converted church for 50 bucks. I think it's less. It's 40. And my buddy actually bought the tickets. So it's. But. But that to me. And then. But that to me will be even is. Is a similar experience for $200.

Yeah.

By the way, if you want to get a beer, it's $7 as opposed to 1250.

That's. Yeah, it's important. Oh, that's so cool. So, yeah, my wife and I just last week went to the small theater and saw an acoustic act from one of our favorite rock artists. This guy by the Name of Ty Seagal. 70s classical. Feel like garage rock, kind of weird too. But yeah, we got. It was probably less than 100 people that were in the theater. I got to sit like in the second row and it's just like that feeling of. And I, I love music too. I know you mentioned you play a little bit, but yeah, just being that close. And yeah, they have the theater decked out for Christmas, so there's all sorts of. You go in, it's just tinsel for 10ft or whatever. And yeah, it's just so.

Just always working the experience. So we're doing. Instead of going to the show Saturday night, Buddy of mine did get the tickets. I said, I can. I go to the. I go to the 3 o' clock show for the holiday pops. Then what we do. So what we used to do is we used to all go out to dinner afterwards. So you jam in 12 people or 15 people trying to get a table somewhere. And I said, you know what, why don't we do this? Why don't we do it in our place? I'll have somebody come and serve us. We'll order the food. So it's not highfalutin. It's really just we pay somebody to service and clean up afterwards, right? It's. And we order pans of food. It's not like she's not cooked. She just eats it up, puts it out for us when we get back. But what it did do is it enhanced the experience. So now we get to stand around, walk around, talk to other people. You're not stuck at one side of the table. So this is where the hospitality comes in again. And just always. Buddy of mine's bringing his. Bringing his girlfriend that I've met once. And I said, so I hear she likes old fashions. I said, I got some Maker's mock. He goes, she's a George Dickel guy. I said, all right, I'll find some George Dickel. So I bought her a bottle of George Dickel. She's taking it with her, though, because I don't drink.

Fair enough. That's awesome. I guess to bring it full circle then. So I haven't read your book yet. I definitely want to have. Having read a little bit about or having talked with you today and then doing some research behind the thing. But how much did you learn about creating an experience as a bartender? Because I imagine like that now you see like on Netflix, they have that bartending competition thing that's like British Bake off or it's super flashy or whatever. But that seems a little bit too showy to me. The times where I've really gone to a bar and enjoyed talking to the bartender. They do a really good job with the product. But it's also. You're learning about their family and stuff. And it's just they're telling stories about San Francisco or Chicago or wherever. Did you have that type of experience? Focus back then. Another word to rephrase. The question is how much is hospitality about creating that experience? Because I know that's not something I've studied extensively or have a lot of experience with.

It's more about it. Just a lot of it is an 8. If you're. You can learn to do it. You have to want to do it. You have to like to do it. And that is. So one of the places I. First place I worked at, they had a dartboard. Slow day. Hey, you want to play a game of Doc? So get two people there. It's a small, slow afternoon. And then if I. If I. By the way, if starts getting busy. Hey, listen, could you take over for me? Bill wants to play. Want to keep going?

Yeah.

You guys. Now they know each other. Now I'm paying it forward. Right? Just a simple thing like that. Creating a little bit of an experience. Introducing somebody. This guy. Matter of fact, I was into. I was going to. Into a radio interview and I stopped into a bar where. Restaurant bar where a buddy of mine worked with us 40 years ago. Not in this one, but he was. So he's still doing it. 70, 74. Move. Still. Still moving pretty good too. Angus. His name is Angus Mackay. How about that for a name?

Nice.

So he goes. So he. So I sit down and I said, I'm going to an interview up the street. And he says. He introduces me to this guy who wrote a book called Shotgunned. It was a cop around Boston. And he talked about how he tracked down The BA tracked down a hijacked truck and they come out guns blazing, and so he got shot. So that's where I'm at in the book right now. But it's just like he created a little bit of experience. So we chatted for a little bit and then I had a scoot. I had to go. Had to go do my interview. But it was interesting. So you have to want to. You really have to want. It's. It's not an introverts game.

Yeah.

You're sales support in that. In that regard.

Right. Okay. With that said, Neil, it's been such a pleasure to talk with you. I know that you gave me a bunch of things that I'll put in the show notes. I'm ready. People are. The people can follow up with you. But where would be the best place to buy your book or to follow up with you if they wanted to learn more about.

Well, I like to point people to the positiveactivity.net site because we've got information about the book on there and then the direct link to the Amazon or Barnes and Noble spot that you can buy because their search engines can get a little funky.

Okay, right on. We'll have that definitely in the show notes. Yeah. With that, like I said, I have a whole bunch of notes from this, and I'm sure going back through this, I'm going to learn a whole bunch more. I can't wait to get that book to really get into the process that you talk about. And so with that, is there anything else you want to say before we wrap up?

I know it's been a lot of fun. Awesome. A lot of fun. You're converted. You're a software engineer that converted to hospitality, brother. Welcome aboard.

Thank you.

Welcome aboard.

All right, with that, we'll see you guys in the next episode of the Meaningful Revolution podcast.

See you, team.