The Journeymen Collective: Embracing Sacred Plant Medicine for Personal Growth with Rob Grover and Gary Logan

Welcome to the Meaningful Revolution podcast. I'm your host, Shawn Butner, and this is the podcast where we talk about what you nerd out about and what people are passionate about to inspire that in yourselves. Today's guests are the co founders of the Journeyman Collective and they are at the forefront of revolution. The world's perspective on magic mushrooms as sacred plant medicine to use with intention for growth and personal development. I'd love to introduce you guys to my friends Rob Grover and Gary Logan. Welcome, guys.

Thank you. Sean, it's a pleasure.

Thank you so much.

Off the bat, I am curious, how did each of you. And maybe we'll start with Rob and go over to Gary. Could you explain maybe your life before you started plant based medicine journeys and then what caused you to get into that and what you've learned? Maybe so far. So, Rabbit, you like to start?

Most certainly. And that's typically how it goes as well, because I was the guinea pig that first tried it. Yeah. So basically I had lived most of my life in the corporate world, and then in 2015, I started my own coaching business, executive coaching, career coaching, and was more on the practical side and tactical side of mindset work and really helping people get their head on straight. And that was fulfilling, but it wasn't quite deeply fulfilling. And I helped a lot of people, but I still felt like there was something that I hadn't quite touched into within myself. And I could feel it, but I couldn't put my finger on it. And as the world would go, Gary's mom, who lived with us for three and a half years, she passed away in November of 2017. And with the 20 plus years of mindset coaching, personal professional development work that I had taken on myself, I still couldn't shake the depression and the grief that had ensued upon our lives. And so this wonderful woman came into our lives and said, I think you might want to work with the medicine man that I just worked with. And initially I brushed it off so I can get through this. It's fine. Then the topic came up again. I went on a journey with the medicine man and worked with him for two solid days. And the depression lifted, the grief lifted, I found my joy again. And I also recommitted myself and devoted myself to really helping my clients at a deeper level. And when I went on that journey, I thought, okay, this is. I'm one and done. This is the only time I'm ever going to do this. And I had experience with mushrooms in university, but nothing in this arena of actually treating it Like a sacred plant medicine. And that was the game changer. And I came out of that journey and I didn't tell Gary right away, but I came out of that journey and was given the guidance that the next step for my path was to start training how to guide people through the journeys. And so I spoke with the medicine man and he agreed to start working with me. And then not sharing this with Gary quite yet because I wasn't quite ready to open up that box, he decided that he would embark on a journey.

When Robert came home, I had noticed a significant change in his demeanor. He was much happier. We jokingly say he found his joy spot, which kept him very lively and happy. And I thought, if he can shift the depression, the grief, perhaps I should do this myself. So I spoke to the medicine man and timed it right. We spread my mother's ashes on May 5th, which was her birthday. And May 6th was my birthday. And it was the best birthday present I could have ever gifted myself. Transformational. I shifted out of my depression, my grief. I wasn't sluggish anymore. I was happy, I was content. And I really felt into my inner strength. So in the journey, there were visions that did come to me and I spoke to Robert about them and I said, you know, I think this is what we're supposed to do because the visions came through of us working with the medicine. And we both looked at each other. I was like, what does that look like? My background comes from theater school, where in theater school the personal development course starts right away for you at 17. They basically break you down to build you up to who you truly are and to represent yourself fully. So with that fast forward, I moved to England, went to theater school there. So another two year program. And there was a program they offered called the Alexander Technique, which is a mind body conscious awareness training. And somehow I innately knew how that worked because the teacher came out to me two days later and asked me, gary, I think you need to become an Alexander Technique teacher. And I at that time was 24 and I went, I'm here to be an actor. I'm not here to be a teacher. Fast forward to when I was 40 and went back to school for three years, became an Alexander teacher. I've also really dove into metaphysical teaching through Unity Spiritual church. I had an awakening quite a while ago and felt the hands of Christ come my shoulders to release the thorns, burns the crosses that I was carrying. Wasn't a churchgoer at the time, but I had this feeling come over me and I Explained it to a friend and that's when she introduced me to Unity. And when I heard the sermons from the minister at Unity, I was like, I really felt like at home. Understood what he was bringing to us and how to work with the metaphysical teachings in my life. I also embarked on a two year healing touch program. So that got very deep into my healing energy and my spiritual side of being and bringing that all together to where we are now. About 40 years of experience with personal development, spirituality, metaphysical teaching, healing, Alexander technique. We looked at each other and thought, we can do this. We can work together and combine an offering to humanity on how to shift their stuff.

Right on. Yeah, I love that. All right, from here, you guys enter the partnership. You create the Journeyman Collective. Can you explain what that name means in regarding this journey? Because I'm sure that's pretty interesting.

Totally. There's many different layers to the actual name. And so we are the journeyman and the people that support us in our team are part of the journeyman as well, whether they are male or female. And then the collective is the number of people that we work with from all around the world who are people that are looking for a deeper level of connection to the work that they're doing. So one of the things that every single human, for the most part gets up every day is they get up to go to work. They get up to work in some form of business. And part of what was shown in the training, when we embarked on the training of facilitating journeys, was that we are here to help people move from business to conscious business. And so there's an aspect of elevating people into passionate and purposeful business that actually has a true and meaningful impact on humanity. That it's not just there to make money. It's you're getting up and you have fire within you that can't be quelled and you have a fire within you that wants to be shared with people. And you're creating from, not just from your mindset by your actual, your heart set. So your heart brain, your gut brain and your actual brain are all working in concert together. And the plant medicine journey can help you get more connected to those other aspects of yourself. Right.

The actual word journeyman. Because what came to mind for me hearing that is like the old apprenticeship type thing. Apprentice, your journeyman and then master. I'm sure it's way more. That's super simplified. Was that the meaning or is it like you're on a journey and it's like a professional guide maybe is a Better way to phrase it, I'd say it's both.

Yeah.

People that come and work with us, they very quickly move from the apprentice to being masterful of self. And we bring people through that experience. And a lot of people will say, like, I only need to come and work the journeyman collective once. And, and then there's the other aspect that we, we are there to masterfully guide you through the depths of your being, that you probably haven't been given that opportunity as of yet because our culture doesn't necessarily support that and people are weary. They may not really understand what, or who we are and what we're, what's going to take place. And for the most part you're going to discover deeper aspects of yourself. You're going to see yourself through multiple lenses and, and learn about yourself so that you can actually apply it in your life and your business.

Right on.

Yeah.

So I'm, I think talking about culture is a really interesting hook because it sounded like both of your journeys started with grief and a little bit of depression. And I think this is a really interesting subject. The first question is what. What kind of environmental conditions have set up, have set us up as humans here to where we would need a medicine or plant based medicine journey to access and work through those emotions? Is it like exclusive or is it something that we all should have access to, but we need help because of the constraints of society? Or I've just got to, yeah, totally volunteer.

There's a number of different threads we can pull on there and I think one of them is that we've become disconnected. And I think that's the primary thing that most people are looking for. They'll wave their arm in front of their hand, in front of their chest or in front of their heart and say, I don't know, there's something that, that I'm missing. There's something that I haven't quite connected in with yet in this lifetime. And like religion can do that for some people, faith can do that for some people, meditation can do that for some people as well. But we jokingly say that a lot of people are like bodyless chickens and they're just running around and the only thing that's there is the head. And they have no awareness of the full innate potential of what it is to be human. And as a consequence of that, they feel they haven't connected into their deeper purpose or their highest purpose of what they're here to do in life, in a relationship and in business.

Grief comes in many forms, not just Grieving of somebody who's passed. We don't celebrate the losses or the. We celebrate the wins, but we, like you lost a job. Let's say there is a grieving period that some people don't know how to move through. The loss of a relationship, a loss of an animal, that's the passing. But there's a physical loss of like especially work or change in your careers or you've just moved on, but you really haven't celebrated the 15 years of doing this one career. And then you've moved on. It may be a happy move, but you still need to celebrate it. So grieving and depression come in many different forums I'm sure you know of. So when we have clients come to us, they're in various stages of grief and depression, maybe unconsciously too, not knowing why they feel this way. And some of our clients come in very content, where I'm good, but I need to know what the next level in my life is going to be. I've achieved so much. I know that I'm not just going to sit by and just coast till I'm gone. I want to contribute to the rest of the world, to society, and how can I do that moving forward? And this is when they embarked with us on the journeys.

Right on. Yeah. That's such important work. And I think as a high performance coach, I'm also someone that's attacking it from a different angle of trying to align your personal and career and spiritual everything together towards what you want in the world, which works for some people a lot more than others. So I absolutely love that. So I'm. I was struck by a thought. I recently finished this book called Bittersweet by Susan Cain, who did a book about introverts which was really cool. Her idea is that we use art and writing and experience to transform sorrow into this middle ground of holding both joy and sorrow. And I was curious because I imagine the grief doesn't go away after this experience, but maybe your relationship to it changes. Could you maybe explain how that worked for, for each of you or how you've seen it working with your clients?

Yeah. So the grief, let's say it's a, a cord or a rope and it's the size of my hand right now, the grief that you've connected, the story that you're going back and forth with it or the connection of it, it is so strong that you feel that you're never ever to let it go. When they come and work with us, that size of the rope gets smaller because the Connection, the energy that you're sending to it is lessened. You will always remember, but you won't keep going back and telling the story over and over or reliving it. You will have come to terms with it and going great, I recognize it, I honor it, and I'm moving forward because it's stopping me from succeeding or accelerating my life into a path that I want to go for. So you probably could add some more to that.

I think like the thing is, most of our people that come and work with us, as Gary already mentioned, they have their lives together, their careers in a good place. And I think what happens is that there's an aspect of we go through life and we don't have those moments to let go of the past and, and celebrate it and grieve it. And as a result, there's no room, there's no room in our beings. And because we've, we have superficial graduations, but we don't have those initiations in our life anymore. And that's a part of culture that's been taken away. And if you want to reach that next level as a high performing individual, you have to give yourself that time. And it's almost every three, I'd say three to seven years. A lot of our people are going through different phases in their life and it's a way to honor what has taken place and then also to explore what is that next part of the visionary reality that you actually want to create and learn how to. Essentially what you're stepping into there is you're learning how to deal with your, your shadow side. We all have it, but most of our culture have been actually shown how to work with fear because for the most part fear is just propagated like breakfast, lunch and dinner, wherever you go. And as a function of that, our nervous systems get overloaded with fear and then we, we don't know what to do, we don't know how to clear that out of our nervous system. Physiologically, it's backlogged. And then someone is a 45, 50 years old and they don't know why they can't reach that next level within their career, within their company. And it's because they haven't dealt with all of the things that have taken place in the last 45 years because it's, oh, just pull yourself up by your bootstraps, all will be well. But we have to have those moments, those, I would say those initiations to become aware of what side of fear is still dwelling within that is being expressed in the outer world. And we have to know how to work with it so we can learn how to consciously transmute it and shift the fear into some aspect of creation. So we would shift a doubt or a worry that continues to pop up. People are just like this worry or this doubt keeps popping up and it's connected to this. And then we can teach people how to actually shift and transform that into something. So you're basically taking the shadow, which is the unknown. All great things have come from the unknown. And we can move that energy from the unknown into something brilliant that is really deeply called from within us to go and create it. We may have had an idea as a child or as a teenager. I've always wanted to really do this or this is the impact that I've always wanted to make. But something happened along the way. That course. I would usually say course corrected, but that's not the word I'm looking for right now. It's basically knock someone off their course. So a psychedelic plant medicine journey can course correct people to get back on track.

Right on.

So.

And dealing with the fear and the grief. This is probably a good introduction into. You talk about the plant based journey. Psychedelic plant based journey. In the back of my head, I'm guessing that there's some sort of process. Each experience is unique to each individual. But I'm sure there's probably the analytical part of my brain really just wants there to be different phases. It doesn't have to be that way. But could you maybe. Okay, maybe taking a step back, we talked about how we don't have these ceremonies or rituals to progress through different phases of life or phases of loss or phases of, you name it, Change. Yeah, transformation. Could you maybe talk a little bit about the tradition of guiding people through these different changes? Because these are our older plant based medicines.

Yeah, definitely.

And then maybe the process, if there is one.

Yeah. So like the work that we do, it's based in the traditional aspect. Plant medicine journeys, which have actually have been taking place for tens of thousands of years. And traditionally. And it was always there, as I already mentioned, to initiate someone into the next phase of their life and allowed them to cleanse and clear the cobwebs and the baggage of yesterday and yesteryear so that they could actually move more freely into that next phase of their life. Or in today's world, it's in their career, in their relationships. So that's a bit of the. The traditional side. And then with respect to the actual process that we bring people through, there's essentially Three main phases. There's a. A preparation phase whereby we prepare people to come and work with us in person. And so we're helping people create context around the actual experience that they're about to embark on. Again, because a lot of people don't know what this is supposed to be or what it's going to be like. So we're helping people prepare on the four basic levels. Let's do the spiritual, the mental, emotional, and the physical. And then people come and work with us in person. And there's four full days. Two days are dedicated to the ceremonies, two days are dedicated to integration. And then the third phase is what we call the AI, the applied integration and the new AI in our world anyway. And it's using the information that you've obtained in the actual ceremonies to move into some aspect of purposeful creation in your life, in your business. And so that's about essentially weaving all the different threads that have been presented to you. And those threads are in various forms of information that you may not have context for. So the guide, that's the, the journeyman, the guides are there to guide you through that whole entire process of the preparation, the intensive and the preparation or, sorry, the integration.

Awesome. I could you. Thanks for breaking it down that way first. Before we move on, I want to acknowledge that for my brain that makes a lot of sense. Could you maybe talk about the different support people need in preparation during the experience and then in the active creation part afterwards? This is a roundabout way of maybe talking about the community or the collective part.

Yeah, definitely. The support is our onboarding, we'll call it, for preparation for the journey is for four weeks. I think Robert said we're one hour, one and a quarter hour zoom calls with the client or with a small group of three to four people. And that be once a week. There's also information on a portal that they are open to view and study. This helps them prepare them through meditation, mindfulness practice, dietary needs, heading up towards the journey. And then when you're at the retreat center here in bc, it's a luxury we call the boutique retreat. It's not yurt or tent or you're not in the woods running around banging sticks. You're in comfort and in a safe environment that is curated for the client to their needs. People don't give themselves permission to rest. And when they come here, I always say leave all your baggage at the door that you don't want to bring in and just come in and just rest into self, you know, and just be who you are and people are taken back by that is like, how do I relax? And once they're in with us, they relax and they settle in. And after that, the support from us is another one, one, a quarter hour a week for four weeks integration. We are also available during that integration. If something is coming up for you that you want to talk about privately, we can do that. And then after that, it's every other week for another two months. So overall, the offering is four months that we're putting together for you and the support is ongoing. Once you become part of the collective, you're we struggling to say you're with us for life or your new family. And we have clients that we work with six years ago that are just coming back now for a journey. It's very rare that most people come back for a second journey. But this client, she was ready. She was young to begin with and she's still young and beautiful. And they're, they call on us when or we call on them, we get a ping, you say, I think I need to call so and so you must get there yourself. Yeah, it's, it's interesting. The collective has grown and our support team with us will be on site also. If the groups get up to three or four, there'll be an in house chef. There'll be other facilitators with us to provide support during the ceremonies and the weekend.

And I think the other thing that'll add in there too is so for someone like yourself who's never embarked on a journey, like what does that actually look like? So essentially you're in a very comfortable, very luxurious estate setting and someone who embarks on that journey is going into silence, which we train people to go into silence. We train people to go into stillness in the meditation. And you're going to be in a ceremony for about five to six maybe more hours. And essentially what's happening is it's like you're closing your eyes and there's a television show that's being presented to you on the back of your eyelids and it's there for you to learn about yourself. And so we're with you in that experience. We're on the inside, connected mind to mind, guiding you through that experience. And because we're there with you, we can help you have understanding or create understanding for yourself. So it's about empowering you to synthesize and process whatever information is presented. We can help you, but it's, it's ideal for the individual to be empowered to garner their understanding and One of the things I think that Gary's also touching on is that because we teach people how to touch back into the various experiences they have, the different. We'll call them, I guess, the different episodes in their television show that's being presented to them, because there are a number of different stories and thread lines that'll be presented. And it's about learning how to continue to touch back into them and foster your own awareness and garner an understanding from that experience for the rest of your life. And it's something that you can unpack and understand more and more each and every day. And like, the first journey that I went on was about six and a half years ago, and I'm still, to this day, still unpacking and understanding and applying it. And so there'll be different things that are shown to you in your own series. And it's about you asking the question, what am I to learn from this? What am I to understand? And what does it look like for me as an empowered individual to create from that? And it's going to look different for every single person. So whatever is shown is unique to that individual, it's curated for that individual. And then we're there to help you move through that process so that we can gently remind you that there are an infinite number of things that you can learn from your journey.

Right on.

Yeah.

So that's super fascinating. And now I'm wondering, as someone that hasn't gone through the experience, are there any risks involved with embarking on such a journey?

Yeah. Psilocybin, magic mushrooms is one of the safest medicines that you can actually embark on. The only thing it does is it increases the activity in the brain, so there's no physiological issues that can take place with the heart or the circulatory system. So it's one of the safest medicines that you can actually be with. There may be a little bit of anxiety, so emotional stress, because most people haven't embarked on a journey like this. And the key thing is to know who is guiding you, that you have done your due diligence, and know that the people that are guiding you have a masterful awareness and an attunement that they can help you move through whatever is going to show off for you. And that's one thing that we assure our clients that whatever you're moving through, no matter what it is, we can help you move through it. And when the guidance isn't there, because magic mushrooms are readily available for people, basically, people can get stuck in one idea or One story for five, six, seven, eight hours and then not know what to actually do with it. So having a guide is vitally important. Okay.

Awesome. Yeah. Where to go from here? So I looking at your website, I noticed you had a section called Magical Insights, which I thought was an interesting phrase. Are there like common insights that people tend to realize in their self movies or is it all over the place?

No journey is the same. We know that because every human is completely different. What the, let's say the outcome that people speak about? Contentment, peace, more love of self, a better connection to themselves and those around them and to I think humanity to the world, to what they're bringing to their. Their work or their jobs, their environment, their loves, their family. It's just those are the commonalities. The uniqueness is different for every person. Yeah, we can write a book about everybody's unique special visions that they have seen and how they've incorporated them into their lives.

I think I'll also add too that people have an ability to continue to foster their own awareness and expand their awareness. So that's the starting place of everything is the power of your awareness. And when you can start to be aware of self, you learn how to move energy. You learn how to. If you get stuck or if there's something taking place within your emotional being, you learn how to, to work with that at a very deep level so that you can create. So it's a way to empower individuals to move through any aspect of stuck stuff, stagnant energy within self at a mental or emotional level, or even physical and, and learn how to work from it, to actually create new aspects of relationships, new aspects of business and, and typically it's, it's a way to have greater clarity of, of self. And there's a. I'd say there's a conciseness and an authenticity that comes from it that people, people can't sway from their authenticity. And I recently saw a, a video that stated that someone had placed 25,000 people in a room and everyone was. Everyone thought that the highest energy level of the world was love. And it actually turned out to be that authenticity had a higher frequency than love did. So we're noticing a lot of people that are stepping into and out of the journeys with us that have this centeredness within self that they're not willing to give it up for anything.

That actually makes a lot of sense to me that if you can show up as your authentic self, it's implying that you've had to figure out how to Love yourself.

Yes.

And when you can love yourself, you can be more compassionate for where other people are on the journey. So I think that's a really beautiful insight on. And the importance of doing work like that we each do is to help people live authentically. Because I think that ripples out too, so. Well said.

Yeah. And I think there's a piece of that too, that people learn how to be gentle and compassionate with self. And then as a reflection of that, they start to realize that, oh, I can actually extend that to the, the people in my family. And people become more loving and compassionate with their partners, their husbands or their wives and their family, their children and their extended family and their parents. And then that ripples out into businesses as well, whereby people are willing because they've gone to those inner depths within self. They're actually willing to. They're willing to actually be vulnerable with people in the professional world and they're willing to go there and use their awareness of. I sense something's not quite right with this person, with this, with this individual that's on a board or an employee or whatever. And they're actually willing to go there and touch into places that they may not have wanted to or they didn't feel comfortable going there with people. And as a function of that, they start to forge a deeper connection with the people that they work with and they live with. So it's a really beautiful process. And that's one thing that we're seeing more and more in the integration phase, that people are really fostering the connection within themselves and, and continue to work in on self. And then as a function of that, they're able to be vulnerable and more deeply loving with their families. And I think that's a foundation that I think the family construct hasn't been as strong as it could be across I think most of west, the western world. And so we can start to fortify that. Then that's going to change the way that people actually function in business because they're walking into their companies and they're happier, they're healthier, and they're more even keeled as a result of it.

Yeah, that's great.

Sit with that for a sec. Okay. I guess so talking about connecting with people more, how have maybe you've seen your community change or you've seen the community at large change from the work you've been doing, if any.

Yeah, I think we mentioned at the top of the show today in that people are starting to witness that money isn't the answer to everything is it an important aspect of life? Yes, very much so. However, people are starting to recognize that they want to dive into a deeper level of purpose within their careers, a deeper level of passion, and that they have to be. I'd say they have to be challenged, they have to be interested. There has to be some aspect of, I guess, social and environmental responsibility within what's actually taking place. So people recognize that they're connected to the planet and that we only have one planet. And so we have to take care of that relationship as well. And so with connection, people. I just lost my train of thought.

It's time.

It'S gone.

We're talking about the community and how it's. Our community has grown due to. If people come in a group journey, three to four, they've expanded. And then we get gatherings probably once or twice a year online with everybody that's been on a journey throughout the years. So that community grows also and it enriches their lives from meeting other people on the journey and then from there as the ripple effect is occurring all the way out. So the referrals come in from families, friends. It just keeps on growing and expanding because people see the change in you and they wonder what is it that's changed in you? And I want what you've got. That's a lot. And so this is what we do and this is how we do it. And does that tweak your interest? And they go, yes, it does, totally. You'll know when the calling is happening. They just innately know that maybe this is the time for me to embark on self. Deep inner exploration.

Yeah, yeah. And to circle back to the thread that I was pulling on a loss there for a second was that because people are themselves looking for something that they're passionate and purposely engaged in, then guess what? More and more people who are passionately and purposefully engaged come together. And then new business ideas start to form and new collaborations form and they're only willing to connect authentically with people. So as a result of that, the expression of business becomes authentic and then profits take care of themselves and business can take care of itself when we actually put connection first. And so it's. There's a paradigm shift that we're seeing that when people come through an experience like this, or they may not come through it together, but they would connect later on at a later date, that they have almost like a common ground, that they know that the person that's. That they're talking to has been through a journey guided by us, which is deeply challenging. It's all, it's for the brave at heart. It's a, it's a challenging experience to really confront yourself. So when you have more and more people coming to the table that have that deep capacity to move through the deeper levels, the depth that you have explored within self gets to be expressed on the outside, even greater so as a below. So without.

Gotcha. So the next question I have then is as more people are coming to the table and becoming interested, do you guys have a process to vet people to make sure that they're ready for the journey? As a coach, sometimes people come to me and they're like, I want to perform. But this big capital T trauma keeps repeating and echoing in my life, preventing me from moving forward. And I have to quickly identify, be like, I'm not a therapist, I'm not qualified to handle that particular thing. Let's get you the help that you really need so you can move forward and maximize the experience that I can provide. I'm curious, what do you guys, how do you guys think about that for these plant based medicine journeys?

Very well said. It's very similar practice that we implement in our interview process. So you would go online, fill a very short application form, it would be sent to us, we would review it and in that time you would have booked a zoom call with us. We would hop on Zoom and we would basically like an interview, see if you're a fit for us and if we're something, if we're, we have a program that we can offer you. So it's a mutual benefit. We will go deep and find out information that you have to share with us. Not have to, but reveal and let us know where you're at this moment and what is blocking you from moving forward. There might not be any blocks. As we said, there's people that come to us that say there's, I'm ready to go deeper into myself. So once the application's been submitted, the zoom call's been completed, we would review it and then pop on another zoom call, which could take two to three calls to find out if they are really a fit for us. And then we would make the offer and then the next step is they're on the journey. And as we know spoke earlier, there's the four month offering that we put forth, the preparation, et cetera.

And one of the things that we've really recognized is that we have a pretty strong level of intuition and we can typically sense within the first few minutes of a call with someone if they're actually ready for this experience. And of course we're not the ones that are going to make that decision, but we're going to guide people to, to, to discern that within themselves. And actually if we feel that they are better served by someone else, then we will redirect them to other individuals, depending on where they're at. So the service that we offer is it's high caliber, high level journeys for high caliber, high level people. So if there is a major trauma, typically we can. Again, it's very nuanced. We do work with people with trauma. However, it's not our specialty. However, if we feel that we can really support someone, then we will provide an offering. But if we have that deep inner knowing that no, this isn't quite the time that you need to maybe go work with someone else first and then at a later date come back to us and see if we can really support you. And that typically works out best for the people where we redirect them to come back to us at a later date.

Right on.

Awesome.

Thanks for sharing that. I was just, you know, always super curious about how people start the journey. I call it like the call to adventure. We already talked about it with like depression or grief or a calling that. Just the intuition that, hey, I need a change in my life. And this could potentially be. Before we lay that to bed, were there any other entry points where people in their life, they're like, oh, I need an experience like this.

I think sometimes it's like we already mentioned it, whereby someone may have built a company and then sold that company and then be sitting there and they're 50 years old and okay, now what? I've just spent most of my life in this company and I don't necessarily need to work, but there's still that. I think one of the biggest things that adds longevity to people's lives is the fact of having a higher purpose. And so even when all of your needs are already met, that's something that we're starting to see more and more, that people are coming forward and wanting to actually explore what that higher purpose is for the rest of their life is. Okay, cool.

So those transition periods, and I'm hearing it like, for me, in my work, it's been when people's identities have been attacked. I'm the business owner, I've worked on this for 40 years and I sold it. And now what? Or I've been at this job for 15 years. And then pandemic happened. They laid off a bunch of people. I dedicated my whole existence to doing the function and now kind of aimless. That's super, super interesting. All right, shifting gears. If there were a couple of. If there's one message maybe that you've discovered through your work that you could shout at the top of mountains to share with people, that would help them out, what would that message maybe be for each of you? Or maybe both of you? Maybe your guys are in sync. Really cool, too.

Are we in sync? Yes, we are. Simple to get into. Heart, think with the heart, love with the mind.

And I think I would add, learn to how to ask questions of yourself. So if there is something that you're stuck in, if there's. If you find yourself in that transition period and it doesn't feel comfortable, if there's discomfort, then learn to ask questions of that energy that's there within you and ask what wants to be created for the greater good. How can I make an actual impact that I would never, ever have thought of before? And for the most part, that's what we've done. We took that leap of faith and embarked on training, embarked on creating a company, and embarked on this whole entire process of buying our own center. And as a function of that, I wake up every day and I'm deeply fulfilled. And as far as I can tell, I'll most likely be doing this for the rest of my life and will be deeply fulfilled. So I know that I'm living my highest purpose. And I continue to still, anytime that I feel something within self that doesn't feel aligned, I've learned how to ask that energy a question so that I can create something from it.

Well, that's awesome. First off, congratulations for finding that and stepping into that calling. That's what the podcast is about, is talking to people that have connected with that. So that's super, super exciting. Yeah, I agree that, like, the quality of the questions that we can ask ourselves, like, sometimes we can ask ourselves questions, but the next level of quality can be the thing that unlocks us. And sometimes you get stuck and sometimes you need help. That's where we all come into it in our own thing. I did want to ask think with the. The heart, love with the mind. Could you explain what that really means? Because that sounds really profound. I think I get it, but I just want to make sure, for the audience, I'll say, yeah, totally.

It's like it's asking yourself to take a moment, to stop your immediate response to reacting or responding to something or a stimulus. Basically, if you can come into your heart, even put your hand on Your chest and just breathe. It's oh, I can speak language through my heart. So it's taking from here to your mouth from the mind brain coming out the mouth, it comes breath heart then speak. It's oh, I can feel those words because words are energy. So the words that I'm sending out are from love and not just are stinking thinking. Sometimes.

I think to add to that too, it's like breaking the pattern. So the intellect is very strong and the mind is very strong. But when we learn to bridge the intelligence of the heart, mind with the intellect of the brain and the thinking mind, that's where we can actually become a really deeply attuned, powerful individual so we can harness that power. And so it's a blending of the intellect with the intelligence.

That idea of the full, like I think there's a Greek idea of logos, ego, pathos, three ways that we communicate. And I feel like in our society in the west, it's a lot more logic focused and being able to tap into that heart I think is very profound when you can access that.

So that's super awesome.

Cool.

One last question before we start to wrap up and that is, as folks that have been in this industry, right now, you have a business, you're supporting people with the magic mushroom. I don't want to say magic mushroom experience, but plant based medicine experience. Where do you see the industry going? Because we've gone from highly regulated, highly illegal in a lot of places of the world to that sort of relaxing, more research coming in and how these medicines could help like PTSD and other ailments or, or just to help people live better. As you guys have been working on, where do you think things are going to be going in the next 10 years? Or do, do you even think about that? Are you just in the moment now doing what you're doing?

We're in the moment.

We know there is a lot of good that is happening and through universities, through testings, John Hopkins, John Hopkins just.

Completed a five year study about the efficacy of plant medicine journeys and different, different substances that were deemed to be something that you would lose your mind if you touched them. And actually they're going to find your mind in a deeper way. So I think it's, we're at a tipping point in society where people want this, this more and more and they're going to, they're going to find a way to embark on a journey in one way or the other. So I think what is vitally important that people find professional guides and people that can actually move them through that whole entire experience and that have had the training. And like Gary and I, we have a combined experience of about 60 plus years of working not just in plant medicine, but in mind, body conscious awareness training and high performance coaching. And it's making certain that you're going to be taken care of as an individual. So I think that's just going to continue to expand. People want a higher level of care. People want a higher level of high minded thinkers in the world and beings. So yeah, I can only see it expanding. And my hope is that it's done professionally and with a high level of integrity, a high level of trust. And because like for us, there's no greater, there is no greater honor than to guide someone through an actual journey.

Yeah, right on. Okay. With that said, if the folks in the audience are interested in exploring next steps with you or where can the good folks follow up with y'? All, we can put that in the show.

We have a brilliant website, ww.the Journeymen Collective, that's M E N1 word, journeymencollective.com also Instagram and Facebook, same handles.

Okay, yeah, we'll put those links in the show notes so folks can check it out. Rob and Gary, it's been an absolute pleasure having you on the podcast today and thank you for your energy. Thank you for sharing your wisdom and your passion for what you do, and we hope to have you back here soon.

Such a pleasure. Thank you so much.

Thanks, Sean. This is brilliant.

Awesome.

All right, and that's it. We'll see you in the next episode of the Meaningful Revolution podcast.