The Value of Family Travel: Creating Lasting Memories and Authentic Connections with Lee Friedman of Mango Tree Travel

Hey, everyone, it's Sean. And today we got a really special guest for you. So if you've ever really been passionate about something and then had a big life change and you went, huh? How can I take this with this new life that I have and continue to do the things that I love? And our guest today, Lee Friedman, did just that with her passion for traveling in the, to the Caribbean in particular and bringing her family. Because as she talked about today, it, you know, could be really tricky to find the places that accommodate kids that offer the experiences that are maybe the big resort type experiences and realizing that, oh, if I solve this for my family and for myself, maybe I could turn this into a business. And she launched Mango Tree Travel in 2022, and it's just helped a lot of families plan their vacations, whether it's getting ideas and filtering on hotels and amenities that work for your family or actually kind of doing the old fashioned travel agent thing and planning a family trip for you. So it's just one thing that's just not on your mind. So. So it was a very fun conversation. Lee's very easy to talk to. She's very, very passionate about what she's doing. And so I hope you enjoyed this conversation as much as I did. And again, if you are in life and you don't have kids and you're like, how does this apply to me? It's really a story about being authentic and showing up as your best self for yourself, as a full form human being and not letting the circumstance of life take that away from you. Not that that's kids, but, you know, kids can be a burden when it comes to travel in this particular instance, or they can create some of the coolest moments ever. And so I think that came through in this conversation. I think you're going to love it. So with that, get to the interview. Hey, everyone. Welcome to the Meaningful Revolution podcast. Today's guest is the founder or co founder of Mango Tree Travel, which is a company that helps families plan travel because it can be really stressful and we'll get into what all that means. But she's very, very easy to talk to. And I'm very, very honored to introduce you to my friend, Lee Friedman. Welcome, Lee.

Thank you. What a nice thing to say. I appreciate that.

Well, you know, yeah, you get to know people before the call. I get the vibe. It's a super, super cool vibe. So we started this company called Mango Tree Travel. So I guess initially I'm curious, like, what sparked that love for travel for you? In your life?

Sure. Oh, that's interesting. No one's asked me that in a while. I think my original love for travel probably didn't start until I studied abroad. I don't know about you and your background growing up, but I didn't travel that much as a kid. I traveled sort of locally. I grew up in Canada, and, like, we would go camping and we would take some trips, but I definitely. I didn't travel internationally really until I was in college. And so the first time that I had a big international trip was to move to France for six months to study abroad. And I definitely took all. Every advantage of that study abroad experience to, like, do weekend trips and go all over Europe and, like, do everything that I could. And that really first, I think, exposed me to. To travel. And I sort of never really looked back in terms of when I then got a job. That's, like, where my money immediately started to go and has continued to go for all time. So, yeah, I think. Interesting. I think that's probably where it first came from was like my first big travel experience.

Okay, that's awesome. And from knowing your story a little bit, and we can maybe get into how you started Mango Tree Travel. But you got married, you have kids, and then kids are a logistical nightmare. You know, I don't have any myself, but I've had tons of friends and family. And so can you explain how having kids and this love for travel probably conflicted, I'd imagine for a bit.

You know, it didn't conflict, actually. And that's, I think, why one of the reasons I started Mango Tree Travel is because I think for so many parents, it does. Does conflict. And for me, it really didn't. It really sort of solidified. I think for me, I became much more get on my soapbox type of person about the importance of travel after I had kids than I ever did before. So I continued traveling, you know, after that initial study abroad experience, and I came back after college and moved to New York and went to law school and then suddenly found myself in a law firm job where I had a pretty good amount of disposable income. And as I mentioned, I sort of would spend most of it on traveling. Met my husband, and he also has a big love of travel. So we travel quite a bit together, including to the Caribbean, which is sort of where Mango Tree Travels roots really started. But then we. We had kids and we had. We started with our daughter, and pretty soon, soon after we had her, we started traveling with her, and we had at least one really memorable trip where we had this moment of realization that the trip was better because she had been on it with us. Not just like, oh, we managed to travel with our daughter, but we were in Columbia, which has a very, like, family friendly vibe overall generally. And I actually found, like, people were nicer to us because we were traveling with a very cute three year old and people like, like went out of their way to help us and made sure we were comfortable. And the town, there were things that we did on that trip that we never would have done had we not had a three year old with us. Like, the horse drawn carriage through the center of town that we would have, like, rolled our eyes at is cheesy. And instead we enjoyed it. And so I started to really talk a lot more about why I thought traveling with kids was something that families should prioritize and not be scared of, even if it was more logistically challenging. And then Covid hit and I had my second during COVID And then I did start to experience coming out of that, some of what you were referencing was we started to try to plan our first big trip post Covid with two kids. And then all of a sudden it was challenging. And suddenly with two kids, you need more space and you need that separate bedroom. And travel prices had increased and there was uncertainty about where you could go. And I started to notice that what had been such an important part of my identity as a parent, which was, I am a parent who travels. Right. Like, I'm a parent who does it with my kids, did start to become, like, much harder. And more and more parents were starting to experience that same frustration. And I think that's sort of what pushed me over to the edge into thinking, like, maybe I could do something about this.

Right on. Yeah. I think especially with business, the problems that you solve for yourself tend to be the best ideas because you're usually not alone in them.

Yep.

So that's amazing that you're able to shift that. Okay, I can solve this problem. And like, oh, I can solve this problem for other people. So just about the. I guess the company in general. Why do you call it mango tree?

That came from two things. The first is when I decided to start, I knew I was gonna start with the Caribbean. I knew that was gonna be my first area of specialty. And there was a book called An Embarrassment of Mangoes. That is what led my husband and I to spend six weeks in the Caribbean before we got married. And an island, the island of Grenada, which is my sort of my favorite island. And that Trip really sparked my love of the Caribbean and my approach to travel in the Caribbean, which I think it might be a little different than the sort of the average Caribbean trip. And so mango came from that book, but also it kind of, I think, gives me the flexibility to grow beyond the Caribbean because I, in thinking about it, mangoes are sort of in so many different tropical destinations all around the globe and just sort of bring up different feelings for different people, whether it's their first trip to Australia or Africa or the Caribbean. Like, a lot of people have some sort of like tropical travel feeling of happiness associated with mangoes that are also sort of like lighthearted, which is what I think family travel should aim to be. And so those things all together made the name once it came to me after many, many, many other brainstorming, sort of like an obvious Jo. I won't pretend I didn't. Didn't take me a while to get there. Right on.

Yeah. Naming things is so hard in business. I can't imagine with kids too, but we don't have to go down that route.

Yeah, well.

Okay, so, okay, so you spent six weeks in Grenada. What did you, like, what made you fall in love with the Caribbean? Like, in particular, why not Hawaii or the Mediterranean or anywhere else?

I think I have to blame my husband a little bit for that because he, he actually now works in ocean conservation. So the ocean and like marine life has always been something that's really important to him. And he gravitated towards, like, ocean areas. And before we decided on this big trip, he encouraged me on a different trip to get my advanced dive certification. So we're both divers as well. And so when we were thinking about where we might travel together for sort of an extended period of time, he had always wanted to travel by boat through the Caribbean. And I don't like boats that much. And so I said, and I had been really, really itching to kind of get to know a destination and not spend six weeks backpacking around, you know, 12 different destinations. The. The idea of like planting ourselves somewhere and so that we sort of landed on a Caribbean island that we were both really excited about as sort of the halfway point between a boat and then me wanting to get to know an island. And it was an incredible experience. And Grenada is not the most popular in the sense of like most well known Caribbean islands for most Americans to visit. It remains a little bit untouched, undeveloped, and still a little hard to get to, which keeps like, throngs and throngs of tourists away. And so we really got to know. And it's small enough that over six weeks, we could get to know, like, a lot of it. And we made every attempt to explore, like, every beach and nook and cranny and restaurant and experience and meet people and really get to know the island. I just went back recently, actually last month for the first time since I started mango tree travel. And I. I've since been to so many other islands, but going back to Grenada, I had that sort of, like, am I still gonna love it as much as I loved it that first time? And I did. But, you know, there's just. There are just, like, places or experiences that really stick with you based on maybe when you experience them in your life or the circumstances of that particular, like, moment in time. And for me, Grenada just sort of, like, is that. I think, okay, that's awesome.

Yeah, I think we all.

I don't know. Do you have a place like that? Do you have a place that you, like, gravitate back to?

So, like you. I did not do a lot of traveling or Traveling. A lot of traveling. Travel.

Eating.

It's a new word.

That's a new word. We've made it up.

I didn't do a lot of traveling. You know, I always been in awe of. Just in North America, like, you go to any different part of. I grew up in Chicago. I live in California right now. I've lived in the South. You know, I've been up to Canada a bunch of times. And, like, it's so different in so many different places. For me, though, it's. It's the people, you know, My wife and I just got back from a trip from Hawaii. That was my mom's favorite place in the whole entire world. And I understand why now. You get it. Yeah, it's just. Yeah, Nice, warm. So. But, yeah, I haven't repeated a lot of trips to answer your question.

You know, I'm the same. And Grenada. Grenada is the only. One of the only places I've been back now. That was my third trip that I just took. And you're right. It was the. It's the people that in large part really sort of, like, define the experience for you as and makes it stay. Stand out to you and your, like, sort of heart in a way that other places might not.

Yeah, that actually leads to a good question. Are there other people in your life outside of your husband and kids now that you. You travel with there that influenced your love for travel?

Yeah, I think, you know, I was really lucky when I had kids to fall into a Great mom's group and made some sort of. Now will definitely be lifelong friends of some parents who have similar sort of life outlooks as we do and parenting styles. And my first trip back to Grenada, actually, after my husband and I went that first time was our first big international trip with our daughter when she was one. And we brought that group of friends that we. And. And like I said, I think back sometimes to that trip. Like, we'd only known these families for, like, less than a year, right? Was we met them when we had our daughter and they somehow just sort of like, we're like, yeah, we'll come on vacation with you and we'll go back to this island that you say is amazing. And we went with. There were four toddlers and then parents and a collection of friends. So there were probably like 10 of us plus four toddlers back to Grenada. And I've continued to travel with that group of friends and, you know, either one couple on one trip or all of the group on another trip. And I think traveling with friends with kids is something that I would never have known was going to be an important part of my own personal travel experience, but definitely has become, like, a big part of that is for sure. Right.

So as. As I'm thinking about that, what, like, could you maybe talk about the difference between traveling pre kids and post kids and maybe some more of the considerations? I can only kind of imagine what it is having family members that have, like. Like you travel around with a full truck of stuff to go to the park sometimes, you know, like, I can't imagine to get on a plane and manage all that.

So, you know, I think this is actually one of the reasons I was excited to be on your podcast, because you sort of prioritize thinking about, like, how to live in a way that's sort of, like, authentic to what you believe in and, like, feels meaningful. And I think that travel with kids can sort of polarize people in different directions. For some people, it becomes just this, like, logistical nightmare and this, like, bottle of anxiety and fear about, like, how am I going to get all the stuff I need? How am I going to entertain them away from home? How are they going to do outside their routines? It's just you're adding this big unknown to your trips of this little personality that you then have to, like, manage for and predict for. That also comes along with all this, like, gear and stuff. And. And it's an added expense because you're buying an additional plane flight or additional hotel room. And I think it scares A lot of people away because of those fears of how it's going to be different than the way you traveled before. And I think for me, what I've tried to do, and this is not easy, is to find ways to make your travel experiences with kids consistent with how you traveled before. So what that might mean is if you were. And then I'll. And then I'll also say. And then adjust accordingly. And one might be like, the types of destinations that you pick. Like, I really started Mango Tree in part because of how irritated I was that when I started searching for like the best Caribbean hotels in this destination for kids, the number of times that the Nickelodeon resort, like Punta Cana or like some other cartoon theme or like all inclusive resort that was like all about water slides came up was pretty overwhelming. And I thought, well, why I didn't go to that type of place before I had kids. Like, what makes you think I want to go to it now just because I have children now? Every vacation that I take has to be about water slides. And I like, I. That doesn't seem right to me. But how do you find the places that have the same sort of like, character and style that you would have liked as an adult or that you still like as an adult? Right. As a parent, you're still a person in the world who gets to have opinions, but that also will welcome your kids and also give you the things you need to have a good experience with kids. And so I started to kind of identify for us what those things were. And some of it are things like extra, like, like a hotel room with two bedrooms, or if not two bedrooms, maybe like a unique sleeping space. Like, my babies all slept in big closets for at least like seven trips in their lives. Because a crib fits in a closet and you can shut the door. And it's fine. Like, you don't need a second bedroom if you have a big closet. But most hotels don't show the size of their closets on their websites. And so finding that can be really challenging. Another, I think adjustment is like the speed at which you travel it. When you travel pre kids, it's often like, how much can you fit in? And your hotel is often a place just to like crash at the end of the day. Well, when you're traveling with kids, they can't move at that speed. And you, if you can start to like, get yourself in the right mindset to slow down with them, you can sort of have experiences you wouldn't have had before. I think back to like, A trip to California we took with when our kids were really little, where we spent like an hour throwing rocks in a stream like that. We never would have done that before kids, because we would have been like, off to the next winery or off to the next activity. But I often remember that moment of just being sort of like at peace in a forest, relaxing. And it's like a different reason we travel, right? We don't just travel to see things. We also travel to take a break and unwind and relax and have these types of, like, quiet moments. And if the kids in some ways make that easier in those brief moments where they're behaving the way you want them to be, but that's like a story, but, you know, you also spend more time at your hotel or accommodation. And so I. I was not necessarily like a luxury travel before traveler, before I had kids, I would have spent more money maybe on like, the experiences or the dinners. And over time I've now shifted and maybe it's just my age. But now, like having a comfortable hotel or a comfortable hotel room with space to spread out and relax makes a big difference because you just are. It's a bigger part of your travel experience and so starting to kind of understand that you can travel in ways that are consistent with who you are as a person and find destinations and activities and the vibes that you like. But you can do it in a way that accommodates some of these changes with kids. And maybe that's spending a little bit of extra money on a comfortable hotel room with space. Maybe it's scheduling one last activity, but making the activity one that like, you and your kids can enjoy. Right. So those are some of the, like, considerations, I think, that scare people away, but like how you can think about it and maybe sort of like adjust your mindset to continue to enjoy traveling even when you've got little kids.

I absolutely love that idea of remaining authentic. Like this new big thing happened. You know, kids are all new experience, but you're still you. I think like you said, you're still a person that enjoys things and wants to relax and, you know, having friends. I know friends that travel with kids or some that have your philosophy and they just. The kid goes with them and they're in the restaurant or they're doing the, like, walking in nature and it's great. And there's the kids that are so stressed or kids friends that are so stressed out. They're still kids, but, you know, we're all kids at heart. But yeah. Who are just so Stressed out about managing the newness and are the kids behaving? And they get so caught up in that that they never get to take a look at the forest.

Do it. Yeah, exactly. And I see why, you know, I don't want to, like, be judgy about that because it's a challenge, but it's one that, like, can be overcome. And I think, like, I. This is like, not, you know, talk thinking about the business for a second. I actually launched Van Go Tree with an idea towards it being like a do it yourself sort of resource. I created a website that I wanted parents like me who liked to plan trips and who liked to travel to be able to more quickly find, like, hotels that might intrigue them and that also welcomed kids. But at. At. In the corner, I also put up like a let me help you plan your trip. And I've continued to be surprised in some ways how much response that section of the company got, because there are a lot of parents who start that process, get overwhelmed, and then feel so much more comfortable embarking on that journey with someone in their corner who's thought about these things. Because then they can say, okay, like someone. Like, it's. It's a little bit of the. The mental load that I think parents often think about is you're trying to balance so many different things in your life and in your brain that if you know that the person sort of helping you plan your trip has all those things in mind, you can, like, take a breath for a minute. So I thought that was sort of an interesting service to be able to provide, that I wasn't necessarily, like, setting it out to do as much of as I've actually turned out to do, because it can be really overwhelming to do it, especially the first couple of times that you've done it. But we all, as parents too, Like, I just. I think it's a common theme and discussion about how parents in those first few years especially can remain people and aren't just parents. And at least for me, I think traveling with my kids was, like, a big way. I did that. And like, I find I'm a better mom on our trips than I am at home. Sometimes I find that, like, I just. I don't. You know, it's like you find that thing that was important to you before you had kids and, like, how do you keep it up? And it won't be travel for everybody, but most people have something like that, like, that they really want to preserve in parenthood, I think.

Yeah, no, that. I think that's incredibly profound.

Yeah, thanks. That's what I was going for.

Nailed it. So, boom.

So.

Now I'm a little bit curious, how has this travel business impacted how you think you parent? Because you've highlighted that a couple of times and I imagine there's a perspective of going through these experiences, doing the things you love. I have a bunch of other kind of follow up questions on that, but so you're doing this, you're probably learning more about yourself through this process. You're helping other people, other families in the similar situation maybe take that load off so that they can fully relax and rejuvenate into that experience, which is an amazing service. So. And I'm observing all the people you're helping. Like, have you incorporated any of that or is it just kind of you're in go, go, go mode?

You know, I feel like, you know how I'm going to answer that question. We talked before we got on the podcast about sort of like habits. And one of the things that I think I have to be honest about is I. I've always had a pretty strong work ethic. Like I was, I had a career before I decided to start this business and I'm still engaged in that career because I haven't made this business full time yet. So I'm doing both. But I had the idea for Mango Tree and my husband will tell you, like, I decided to do it and like I pretty much haven't looked up in two years. And I like went all in and I, I did some, I've done some amazing things for me personally and for my family and starting this business like in 2021, the year I really started it, 2020, no, 2022, I went to nine Caribbean islands and I made this big push to go visit all these islands to become an expert so that I could build the expertise to have people actually want to trust my travel advice. And I took my kids with me on a lot of those trips and we had some incredible times together and I've learned some great stuff. And one of the things that's amazing that's come out of it is I've learned that I also really love to travel with just one of my kids at a time. And so I have an older daughter and a younger son and they're very different. They're four years apart. And last year I took a couple of trips just with my daughter and those have turned out to be like, really important to me. So she and I are going on another trip, just the two of us next week. Week And I think we're going to turn it into, like, an annual thing. And I. I don't know if a lot of parents do that, but I now like to encourage parents to consider not just traveling with kids, but, like, what are some different ways you can do it? That might not be, like, the obvious choice, but I will say, to kind of get back to your actual question, I. I struggle more now to unplug on trips, because every trip now is a little bit work and a little bit fun. And I can't. I can't, like, unsee, like, the Instagram content I could make from this experience that we're having or, like, what I want to write about on this trip or, like, every place we go. I now have six hotels I want to go visit so that I can better, like, you know, recommend them to clients in the future. And so there is a. Has been a little bit over the last couple years of. I'm not sure I found the right balance yet of, like, following my own advice to be able to, like, connect with your kids and unplug and really, like, enjoy these travel experiences, because I've now got this sort of, like, other aspect of it that stops you from doing so a little bit.

Right. All right. So the coach in me now is like, Don mask discussion. And that is what would need to change for you to have that. To be able to do all the things right, to have the travel experience, to grow the business, to be the expert that you want to be. And that's a lot of responsibility to take on, as I'm sure you know, as your face. People can't see your face. Your eyes just went by.

I don't sleep very much, let me tell you. I think so. I was never really an entrepreneur before this company started. I sort of, like, fell into entrepreneurship. So I've done a lot of, like, consuming advice and thoughts about, like, how a person can, like, manage a business when there's always more to do. And the one that resonates with me most, that I don't do effectively as, like, boundaries, like, I sometimes think so. And I'm doing it a little bit. Like, I'm taking this trip with my daughter next week for five days, and we're mixing in. There will be a day that is just for her and I. I'm taking her to Disneyland for a day. It's a thing she wants. I'm going to do it. That day is not about my business. Right. And then we are going to go spend two days at a hotel that I'm really excited about that. Is hosting us so that we can kind of, like, explore as a family, as a place that kids might go. And she kind of knows and she kind of. I loop her in now. Like, she never told her teachers what I did as a lawyer, but she loves telling her teachers now that I help families travel. And if I kind of, like, get her buy in on it, it's like, today we're going to experience this hotel. And I want to see, like, what do you love about this hotel? And, like, that is mixing work and family, but in a way that I think will feel good. And then I want to make sure I set aside some time on that trip again, that's like, moments that are not about the business and moments that are about, I'm on a trip with my daughter and we should be able to unplug. So I think it's sort of like making sure you set those limitations. I do this very, very poorly most of the time, but I'm striving for, like, setting boundaries about how I spend my time and, like, where my time is best used. But I think I'm still early enough in my business that I don't yet know what's working and what's gonna go well. And so I still feel like I have to do everything all the time. And I haven't kind of gotten over that. That business hump yet, unfortunately.

Yeah, we all. We all go through it.

Thanks. I hope so. That's right. That's my year. That's my year.

It's always, you never know what you're going to get, and it's always a surprise. I found out. And the emotional roller coaster of owning your own business is pretty crazy. Okay. So the other question I had based on what you were talking about is like, what do we as an audience need to do to help you go all in on Mango Tree? If that's something you want, right?

I guess it is something I want. I use the website, like, take a look at it, tell friends about it. If you find it helpful, like, reach out by email, let me know. Plan a trip with me. Mostly it's like, I'm still trying to get the word out that there's this resource for parents looking to plan trips. Whether it's to hire me to plan your trip or just to, you know, to, like, be on my website and, like, finding the content helpful. I still get those butterflies that I'm sure, like, most business owners get when someone reaches out to me and says, I've been following your Instagram content for a year. Like, thank you so much for sharing all these ideas about, like, how to travel with kids because, like, you know, you send all this out into the world and it's always, like, you don't often get the feedback from most of the people who are, like, seeing what you're doing. And so I think that, like, that's. Yeah, it's always nice to hear that, like, a parent agrees with your philosophy on how to travel and finds your information useful.

Yeah, totally. Totally. Yeah. Like, my. My wife's a therapist that works explicitly with kids and parents.

Oh, wow.

And so I know she's one of the biggest fans of the podcast. She's probably listening right now, and I'm sure she's thinking, like, who can I share this episode with?

Awesome.

That I know.

She also tell me how to get my kids to stop fighting because I also need some diet. I might give her a future client.

I'll let her.

Thanks. But that's actually been the best. Is like, hearing people share about it, like, people have. And I, you know, someone said it first, like, surprises you a little bit that this doesn't exist. Like, mango tree didn't exist before. And it's not that there aren't. There are a lot of family travel, like, bloggers out there who are really trying to inspire parents to travel with their kids. Like, I think there is a lot of inspirational material out there about how to trav with your kids if you're looking for it, but that doesn't necessarily help you in that moment find, like, the hotel you need and, like, the details and the logistics of, like, how to plan this actual trip. Like, it's one thing to be inspired, and it's another thing to actually have, like, the practical help to do it when you're ready to plan your trip. And I think that that is sort of what try. I try to keep in mind as I sort of, like, grow the business of, like, where can I offer a unique value that isn't already out there? And it's combining that, like, inspiration with actual, like, practical tips and travel, like, to. To how to do it in a way that actually works.

Yeah, that's actually. This actually leads to maybe an interesting question. Maybe it's a dud, but we'll see. So the. The way that as I was, like, doing the research on all the great work you're doing, it seems like.

30.

Years ago this business would have been like a boutique travel agency for kids. And then that whole industry went the way of the dodo and then influencers came back, and then the travel bloggers thing kind of came back on. How do you, as a. Maybe as a business, do you see a connection to those days and we were regaining something we lost, or is it completely different?

It's definitely not a dud of a question. And I actually am like, I have a blog post being loaded about this, like, as we speak. I didn't know this, right? Like, I didn't set out to. I. I set out to create this resource. And then when I put up a, like, an offer to have, like, be help people plan their trips, I didn't, I didn't know that. There's actually been this huge resurgence in, like, the leisure. Leisure Travel Advisor is what I'll call it. It's like, what used to be a travel agent is now known as a travel advisor. And that there's been, like, a huge comeback because like you said, we went. We had travel agents and then we went the way of, like, information overload online, where it suddenly became much easier for people to plan trips themselves. And you didn't need a travel agent anymore because you could just do the research and figure it out. But now it's so hard to figure out what content to trust and what reviews are real. And to dig through the noise takes not only so much time, but it's created all this, like, uncertainty and anxiety about, like, am I trusting the right resource? And how many hours do I have to vet the resource and the hotel to feel confident that I'm picking the right one. And then the logistics of travel since COVID have become more complicated again, I think, and prices have gone up. And so all of a sudden the logistics are harder. The information's just like, crazy. And we have. And parents especially, I mean, lots of busy people, but for me, parents have less time to deal with all of that. And suddenly hiring somebody to help you do it has become, I think, more and more popular again. And so I actually affiliated with a proper travel agency six months ago, and I've met this group of, like, exceptionally smart people who are planning, like, leisure travel, often in the luxury space. Not entirely, but that is, like, often the best market to operate in. But now you're not just talking about, like, I booked your airline ticket and I booked your hotel. It's. I sit down with you for 30 minutes and you tell me, like, your hopes and dreams and wishes and, like, restrictions and budget for this trip, and then you hand it to me and I get to go talk to all these industry partners and do the research. I love to do and come back to you with like, here's your itinerary. And then you know, get as much input as you want. And like that curated travel experience that takes away those like endless hours of research is becoming, I think like it's coming back again because there's so much content to sift through that you need somebody to help you do it and do it in a way that like makes sense and that they do as a job. So I think it's actually kind of neat to have learned that that has come back again and that's. That that's not like the space I'm sort of exploring as like part and I'd say in my business right now straddles the line. It's like half blog content, Instagram influence, influencing if you want to call it that or just sort of like inspiration and half like I'm a, I'm a travel advisor that books hotels and like in a cool way that I didn't really know was making a comeback. So that's been fun. So not a dot of a question, it's like a fun question, I think.

Okay, good. Yeah, awesome. So question I was thinking of while you're talking again is like, so how many times is it just water slides? And you're like, okay, got you like.

More than I want. No, no, I think, I think. And you'll notice too like working with business owners there becomes a self selection process if you spend. So I, I am also a little different from a lot of travel advisors because the natural way that travel advisors find clients to plan trips for is like referrals and word of mouth. I get most of my clients through the website who have found like what I'm putting out there through like Google Search or whatever other forum and they like what I'm saying and they think this is a person I want planning my trip. So my, and my website's not shy about this fact that like I'm not going to book you at the Atlantis in the Bahamas for the water slides like that. That's not my vibe. And like no judgment, that's your vibe. A little judgment if that's your vibe. But, but that's not where I excel. And so most people that reach out to me aren't less certainly looking for that are more interested in like a family owned smaller property. And that's not to say I don't have like a few great hotels in my back pocket that have like water slides. A lot of people really want kids clubs because a lot of parents do want to know that they're going on a trip and are going to get a little bit of a break from their kids, which I totally understand. But I still try to find like the smaller properties with a kids club and not the massive resort. Like I do not know the market of like big all inclusive resorts in the Dominican Republic and Jamaica that have water slides. Like that's not what people are coming to me for and it's not where I thrive. So there has been at least a little bit of like a self selection process there which has been nice.

It's good. It's a magic thing in a business when you start to find your people.

Yeah.

And they're starting. Oh things that I'm communicating. Those people are attracted to this offer this unique experience.

So that's one of the most fun things has been getting parents who are like right on the edge. And so like by way of example, I took my daughter with another friend and her daughter on one of our sort of exploratory trips last year. We went to the Bahamas and we spent four nights at this like tiny hotel on like almost a private island that was like one of these like really special places that you want to go to as an adult. But like the kids played with hermit crabs and we drove around in golf carts and it was like such a cool experience for everyone and. And then we flew back through Nassau and spent like a day at a water park before we went home. And like, frankly my daughter is still like, when are we gonna go back to that water park? But I remember like, but I also like, I have the great memories of this whole trip that wasn't just about the water park. And I have another place in Turks and Caicos I love to recommend where families are like we've done the all inclusive. We want something a little different but like we're a little nervous. And so I put them at like a really nice resort for like three or four days. And then I've nudged them to go see this like crazy 7 room hotel that's on like an undeveloped where like you're just like never going to see a beach like that anywhere else. And like spending two days there with their kids for them is like enough. But they come back saying like, we've now had that experience. And also then we went and took them to like the resort with the pools and like so like that like mix where you kind of get a little bit of both is actually something I find really like satisfying and fun because I think you probably wouldn't have made this choice without Me helping you. But you still got that sort of like, traditional resort experience that maybe you thought you wanted when you entered this planning process. Those have been some of my most fun trips to plan in the last year.

Right. On like, half sliding, half adventure.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. I don't know.

I don't know how to categorize the folks. Yeah, yeah, probably dangerous, but.

But it's a little bit of both. Like, get something that's like, unique and different and authentic. But, like, we all know that, like, you can sit and have a drink while your kids are on a water slide. If in a way where like that. That's not just for the kids. Right. That's for parents too. Like, there's a reason that we want our kids to be entertained and it's so that we can, like, look up for a minute and like, have a conversation with our spouse, like, while they're playing on the water slides. So, like, I understand why parents want that, but I also don't think they need to make that their whole trip and like, center their whole trip around it.

Totally. So on these trips, these amazing experiences you plan for families, for parents, and so that they remain human for kids so they get to see the world. Is there any, like, I want to say, secret messages, but is there anything you're trying to impart on the families? Like a message or a way of thinking about the world or living that either you're overtly, like, take time for yourself people, or you're just kind of nudging people into that. Cause I've heard that that come up quite a bit.

But I, I think it's the, like, continuing to remember, even through parenting, that like, travel is about, like, exploring exploration and authentic connections. And like, when we really take a step back and we think about what travel's about, it's a little bit about doing something for ourselves, taking a break. It's a little bit about, like, seeing new cultures and having real connections with places or people. And like, continuing to do that even when you're a tired parent and you think, all I want to do is go and sit on a beach where my kids are entertained. Like, okay. And like, sometimes as a busy working 20 something, I only. All I wanted to do was go sit on a beach with a book. And like, not necessarily I wasn't looking for a cultural experience, but, but I try to impart on people that like, if you were once a traveler that wanted some of these, like, real experiences, you can still have them with kids and you can still do it in a way that feels like easy or easy, you know, easy enough and like relaxing and like that. I think now, sorry, I'm sort of like getting to the answer as I say it out loud. But the message that used to, like, irritate me the most was there's like an expression that floats around the Internet of like, it's not a vacation with kids. It's just like parenting somewhere else. And I, like, my biggest thing is like, I don't think that has to be true. Like, I think you can set yourself up for a way where in each day of your trip or in each experience you're having, you can still feel like it was a worthwhile experience. Whether that's like through relaxation or adventure or whatever it might be. Like, it's not just like, oh, I'm parenting somewhere else. Like, it doesn't have to be that way. That's the one that really gets me.

I understand it like, yeah, it gets me too. And I don't have kids. It's just like, yeah, there's.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's, you know, it's an attitude adjustment. Right? It's like, how do you think about travel? And like, why does it have to change because you have kids? Like, why can't you show them the way travel should be?

Yeah. How do you think traveling has impacted your kids personally?

Because I imagine spoiled.

That's awesome.

No, but I think one other thing to sort of like, remember, and it's something my kids have learned, is that like, travel, like anything else is a learned skill. So I have a 2 year old who does great in airports because he's been through them so many times. Like, he knows, he understands the security line. He understands there's like annoying periods where you have to be patient. He also knows that he's going to get his iPad, like the minute he gets on that airplane and he's excited about it. And like, you know, like, it's like you sort of like the things that stress you out about travel. If you have the means and the time to take multiple trips, then it just gets easier and easier and easier. And my kids, I think now are great travelers because we have done it so much, starting with when they were a baby. And I think I'm trying to think about what my kids have learned other than that travel and experiences should be a regular part of your life. I mean, look, the reality is my kids are growing up in a different way than I did where they take for granted that traveling is just like part of the life that we live. And I hope that one day they'll look back on that and understand that, like, that's not true for everybody. And we try to always sort of make sure our kids appreciate, like, where they are, like, benefiting and where they're getting, you know, having great life experiences. But, but part of being a kid is that they shouldn't have to like, totally understand, like, the seriousness of what they're experiencing. And like, they get to take it for granted a little bit. I wish my daughter could tell apart all the different islands she's been to. Like, I, like, sometimes people will be like, where's that? Where's your favorite place you've been to? And she like freezes and so she'll just be like Disneyland. And I'm like, oh, like, you know, fine. It's magical. I get it. But. But yeah, I think, I think. And I think also I'd be really, really proud of watching her learn. Like, she's seen me try to start a business and she's seen that I'm doing it about something that I'm really passionate about and she likes to talk to me about it and learn from it and is excited to help me show other families what they might enjoy. And like, that's been really neat. Like, that's been a cool thing to experience with her pair for sure. My 2 year old is just a monster of a little boy, but he, he adds like comic relief, so it's funny.

Right on.

Okay, that's good.

Well, yeah, it's so it's super cool to have that mindset of I'm role modeling what it is to follow your. Everyone says find your passion, dive into it, follow it. And so few people take that leap. And that's part of the whole reason for this podcast, is to explore those people that have found their path or on the path and take that jump. Because that feeling of being super authentic and connected to the meaning you're meaningful pursuits you're putting out in the world is so important.

Yeah. It can feel so scary and can.

Be so scary to do, you know, but yeah, 100%. But you could be scared and not be doing your passion or you could be scared and doing your passion.

That's a good point. Yeah.

Might as well take that shot. So, yeah. Is there anything you hope. I guess just from like learning and I don't know so much about the Caribbean, so maybe this is a little ignorant, but culturally, what do you think your kids are picking up? Just be getting outside the States.

Yeah. Yeah, I think that that's an interesting Point, I think that they will, they are exploring like new foods and new people. And you know, I was talking to my daughter today when we were, we were in Jamaica last year and we had this really awesome experience. We went to a very community oriented hotel that really worked with local providers to offer like great experiences for travelers. And one of which was Captain Joseph, who took us out on his fishing boat and he provided like a water based tour. And then he and his wife cooked lunch for you on a deserted beach. And when I told him that I was in travel and liked to explore new hotels, he said, you have to come over for dinner. We're opening this little hotel and we're launching a restaurant. And we were like the only guests in his hotel that night. It was me and my friends and our three little kids and they treated us like kings. Like they gave us our kids fresh coconuts in the pool and cook us a dinner. And you know, my daughter doesn't remember everything, but she, she remembers that. And I said something about Captain Joseph today and she said, yeah, he was trying to start a restaurant and like we were one of his first guests. Like he really wanted to see if we liked it. And, and she has this memory of him wanting to like build something and do something. And that was like a really neat thing for her to be able to experience. And those are the types of like personal connections that I loved making while traveling before I had kids. And when you're with your kids, you're often so focused on them and their needs that sometimes when you travel you can't make those personal connections quite as easily with the people you're encountering in your destination. And it stood out to me that she, not only did we have that while traveling with her, but that she remembered it as much as I would remember that type of like interaction. And so I do think that she is like seeing what people look like in different places and what like their homes look like and what their food tastes like and how different that can be. Because we, we really try not to just, especially because we're in the region so much like not to just stick to like big resorts. Like I'm a big fan of. Even if you're staying at a nice resort, you should be going to an, to a destination to experience it. And so that might even just involve like an excursion or two. But it, it often should involve getting out beyond a resort because that's not always going to be like the place you're experiencing even in the islands. And so I have had a lot of experiences with her where we've gotten to do that and. And like, we've gotten to do some really. I mean, I took her to St Thomas for her fifth birthday last year when we were starting this, and we went ziplining because, like, ziplining is only a thing you can do when you're five. And she really remembers, like, that. And so there's been some adventure in there and all sorts of different things that I think have been really cool experiences for her to get to have and see outside of, like, Washington, D.C. where we live.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, that. That's awesome. I can't imagine ziplining at 5. It probably was super awesome.

Like, it was super awesome. It was like. I also can't imagine I've ziplined like one maybe once. And then like that time with her, but it was. Yeah, it was super awesome. And. And like, other things too. Like, she can snorkel and she's 6. Like, I didn't snorkel until I was 20 something. And I see how excited she gets when she sees like a fish. Like she saw a big stingray underwater and she knew, like, that was a thing. And now when I go snorkeling, I came back, I can come back and I can tell her, hey, I saw this thing. And she knows that that's like, whoa, that's incredible. And so she's getting to sort of see some of those, like, natural wonders that, like, not a lot of kids get to experience. I mean, many do, but. But not all. Okay.

Yeah. All right, so before we start wrapping up, I have a couple of rapid fire questions.

Okay.

I thought this would be fun. I'm a big coffee drinker. Which island in the Caribbean is the best coffee?

Oh, my gosh, Probably Jamaica. But I really enjoy the coffee. I just got from Grenada when I was there last month, so you can find it in most, but probably Jamaica.

Probably Jamaica.

I'm.

I'm sure it's great everywhere. I don't want to make it, like, seem like it's. There's a number one.

Probably. Yeah. But probably Jamaica. I think it's Jamaica.

Probably Jamaica. Best airline to travel on.

None from Washington, D.C. you know what? JetBlue from New York has actually really great Caribbean flights. Direct Caribbean flights. And I have always really enjoyed it when I've managed to get myself on one of those flights instead of American airline, which is what I normally take.

Right on.

Best travel airline to travel on with kids, though, is sometimes Southwest because there's no assigned seating and family boarding is really good. And I actually really like traveling on Southwest with kids.

Okay, awesome. Favorite. I was gonna say hotel, but you don't do a lot of change, so it's probably gonna be like, you know. Yeah, I would say cool, but. Okay.

It's hard to do like a favorite, but I think the hotel that probably most encapsulates the Mango Tree like brand and ethos is Mount Cinnamon Hotel in Grenada, where I was one of the first hotels I put up on the website because Grenada, but not only that, it is family owned. It has a sense of luxury to it, but also a sense of character. You get the beach resort, but you also get, like, full local experiences. And I think it really, to me, shows how you can find a great hotel where you can be comfortable, where you can spread out with your kids, where you can really, like, be connected to the experience that they're having. There are lots of other hotels like that around the Caribbean, but that one, I think really, like, if you can wrap up the Mango Tree brand in, like a bowl, I think that one is the one that like, really sort of hits all those buckets for me. Okay.

I was going to ask what would be the signature Mango Tree experience, but you jumped ahead.

That's the one like Mount Cinnamon and Grenada. And then I have like, you know, a few other similar sort of things like that. But that, that one is one I just like. I love to recommend.

Right on. How much travel is too much travel? Like, in an ideal world.

Would you.

Be traveling the whole year round? Or is it like three months at home? Is it six months at home? Or is there. Is that a fair question? It's probably not a fair question, but.

I. I am traveling too much. And I did not know that I could feel that way, because I do think you have to acknowledge that with kids there is like a wind up and lead down and like the sort of like, you know, clearing your plate to travel, getting home from a trip, readjusting everyone to their schedules, like, that's a real cycle. And right now, or last year especially, I think I was traveling almost once a month or once every other month. And it sort of felt like that cycle was never broken. And so I do think, I think in an ideal world, I would take like a week off every quarter. Once every three months I would take. And like, I think that. And that would be. I think that would be like, the perfect amount. Right.

Lastly, number one piece of advice for traveling families or top, maybe number one is a little too much pressure. But the one that comes to mind.

I think my biggest piece of advice is to be honest with yourself about what is stressing you out. What's stopping you from taking that trick? Is it the money? Is it the like fear your kids aren't going to sleep? Is it the flight like traveling? Like the parents are terrified of flights with kids because you're just like stuck there and like figure out what that one thing is and try to solve for it. Whether that's getting help in that aspect. But if you're scared of the flight, spend more money on the direct flight or and, and then, and then save money on other things elsewhere to make it fit within your budget. If it's the budget, like talk to somebody who might help you figure out how to travel on your budget that like if you can pick the biggest stressor and if often again it's sleep, like find a hotel where your kids have a second room and maybe that means less of a luxury level. But you're all spread out. If you can figure out what the one or two top stressors are for for you and solve for those, then there's always gonna be things that go wrong and there's always gonna be like issues. But if those big ones are kind of like managed for you like it'll make the whole planning process this much more enjoyable.

Right on with that. Lee, thank you so much for the rapid fire question answers.

Thank you beautifully.

Where can the good folks at home listening follow up with Mango Tree Travel and yourself?

Yep. Mangotreetravel.com Easy to find. You'll see the all our we have all these detailed hotel profiles and why they work for families across the country Caribbean and they can be searched and filters by like what parents are looking for. So two bedroom suite, kids club con beach, babysitting, whatever sort of like family focused amenity you might want. You can filter for hotels that have those features and then there's a lot of blog content too. That's where you can find our travel planning services and everything else we offer or contact me. And then I'm also on Instagram at Mango Tree Travel and I'm on there a lot. Always happy to respond to messages with questions, feedback and that's where we sort of share our own trips and like sort of more inspirational content about traveling with kids.

Right on. So if you're a family thinking I go on a family vacation, definitely check out Mango Tree Travel. Lee, it's been fantastic having you on. Thank you so much.

Thank you. This was so fun. I've enjoyed talking to you about all this stuff.

Yeah, likewise. So yeah, with that hopefully you'll come back sometime soon and we'll see you on the next episode of the Meaningful Revolution podcast.

Awesome.