How to Receive the Support You've Been Building for Everyone Else, Sarah Merwin, Holbrook Farms

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From Others Over Self, it's Hardcore and At Ease, a show about people who are keeping their edge without going over the edge. I'm host Shelly Rood. Today we're talking about the gap between how clearly you can see what someone else needs and how long it takes to see it in yourself. My guest Sarah Merwin co-founded Holbrook Farms, a retreat community for military widows. She planned the first one entirely for others, sat down at dinner on night one, and she knew. We explore what it takes to finally receive the care that you've been building for other people. This is Hardcore and At Ease. The caretaking wilderness does not look like crisis from the outside. It looks like competence. It looks like the person who already handled it, who already figured out what everyone else needed, who shows up consistently, and the people around her stop wondering if she's okay. She's not asking for help. She looks like she has it covered. And underneath that, it seems like the whole system is built around serving everyone except for her. Welcome to the wilderness. Today we're talking about the caretaking wilderness. That's the terrain that we named in episode 41. The caretaking wilderness accumulates before we can name it. The thousand small silences, the things that we stopped asking for without noticing that we had stopped. There's a slow shift from measuring what we were receiving to measuring only what we were producing. And by the time most of us recognize the terrain, we've been standing here for a very long time. Now, I want to be clear about something as we get into today's conversation. You're going to hear Sarah's story, and her story includes loss, real loss. It's significant, the kind that does not resolve. It's the kind that you carry forward and you learn to live alongside. It's important that we don't build a wall around this conversation because It's woven into who she is and how Holbrook Farms came to exist. But I also need you to know that grief is its own wilderness, separate from caretaking. The grief wilderness has its own criteria, its own root pulls, and that deserves its own teaching. And so that episode is coming. It's taking us much longer to dig through it because I want it to be really good for you. I promise to give it everything it needs when we get there. But today we're still focused on caretaking and what the caretaking wilderness produced uses and the leader who is paying attention. Sarah walked into the first retreat she helped plan. It was for women she genuinely wanted to serve, and she had the logistics organized and the itinerary set. And when the women sat down to that first dinner and the walls started coming down, something shifted. She realized that she was one of the women at the table, truly one of the women at the table. She realized that she needed what she had built, and the needs that she had named and structured and organized for everyone in that room, well, it had been quietly living inside of her unnamed for years. That's a caretaking wilderness moment. The third root pull working in real time. The thousand small silences. The one holding the container discovering that she also needs someone to hold her. What Sarah found at that table, what Holbrook Farms has been proving for 12 years now, is that peer support is not a step down from clinical care. It's a different category entirely. There's something that happens when you sit across from someone who already knows the terrain, someone who doesn't need to listen to context, someone who doesn't need you to build the case for why this is hard. She already knows. And in that knowing, something in you exhales that you don't even know that you've been holding in. It's about others getting it without you having to explain. So hold on to that phrase. Sarah says it today, and I want you to feel the weight of it because I know there's a listener today who's been doing a lot of explaining to people when they're really just trying to understand it for themselves. Here is my conversation. With Sarah Merwin.

Holbrook Farms is, uh, it's a special place. I, I, I don't think I'm super biased. We get that feedback over and over, but it's a special place, uh, up in Minnesota near Detroit Lakes. Small town feel, um, sitting lakefront. And 11 years ago, we saw a need to just bring people together to find support and community. And our retreat guests have lost a spouse in the military. We also added retreats for women who've lost a sibling, um, in the military. But basically we build community. We bring people together at Holbrook Farms to laugh, to cry, to, uh, leave things in the past to bring new things into their future. But yeah, that's our mission, to serve military survivors through wellness retreats. And we do that on a little slice of heaven up in Minnesota.

Why Minnesota, Sarah?

So our founders, Matt and Michaela Broncato— Kayla is from Fargo, North Dakota, and so am I— claim Fargo South Bruins at heart, went to the same high school. And so for us, Detroit Lakes is about an hour away, and we grew up going to the lakes. Our grandparents had lake homes. That just— it was simple, you know, nothing fancy, just running around, getting in the water, having fun with cousins and friends. And so Matt and Michaela ended up buying a property up there And that's, that's the setting. It's really just because that's our hometown. Those are our roots. It's what we know, the community. And it, it was a series of, some would say coincidence, but I think it was all sort of happening for a reason that Matt and Michaela ended up in that property, in that area, in that setting. And then that property ended up being our home for the nonprofit, for Holbrook Farms.

That location of being lakefront speaks to me very, very deeply. I also was raised on lakefront property, and then I purchased the lakefront property, and I'm growing my family here. So my kids are the fourth generation to grow up in our home, and it is so incredibly special. The healing processes that can come out of just being in nature, but a lake, right? There's just something really special about having access to the water that's there. What kinds of things do you do in and around the water as part of the process of your work?

Yes, there is something about the water. We always say it. I actually lived near the Pacific Ocean when I was young, young. And so the ocean, the lake, a river, a waterfall, there's something there. And so we do, we try to spend as much time outside on the water. Enjoying nature as we can. So we open our, our opening morning of the retreat is paddleboard yoga. And a lot of people immediately say, no, thank you. I don't paddleboard. I don't hardly want to swim. I don't go in lakes, but you bring the women down there, you ease into it a little bit of, if you're sitting on the paddleboard in the water, You're succeeding. That's it. You're doing it. Uh, if, if you're actually able to paddle and get somewhere, cool. If you strike a yoga pose, totally nailing it. Uh, we get out on the water for paddleboard.

Is that you? Are you on your head?

I have maybe briefly been on my head and then very soon into the water, probably the next moment. I'm somewhere in the, uh, slightly above average category, I think. I would give myself credit for.

Um, paddleboarding is no joke. We've done some paddleboarding events ourselves, you know, with women, and there's a serious hesitation to touch a paddleboard, to get on it. I mean, even just that simple act of doing it, it can bring so much fulfillment and so much fear. Is that what you've seen?

Absolutely.

The— it—

we call it You know, we started it just because we had a local instructor willing to do it, to bring her boards. And I had been to her classes and she said, I love what you're doing at Holbrook Farms. Can I come? Can I teach? And what we didn't realize is it's almost a team building exercise, you know, inadvertently. We— and so women are helping each other, encouraging each other as they're walking down to the beach. They're saying, not me, I'm just going to stay on the shore and take pictures. And over the course of even just 30, 60 minutes, they get excited. They say, okay, I'll try. I'll just sit on it with someone holding me. Okay, maybe I'll get on my knees. Okay, maybe I'll stand up. Okay, take a picture. I gotta show my kids. They're not gonna believe I did this. So there is, there's achievement and victory in something as simple as just getting on a board, floating in the water.

So you start as someone really needing this experience yourself and getting it going right from the founding beginnings, and then actually attending the retreat yourself, and then moving through being able to facilitate these retreats. And now you're up there serving as the executive director and running the whole operation. Walk me through when it hit you that you needed to be the recipient of this work as much as the women that you're serving? Because that's, that's not what we're trained for, right? We're supposed to be the ones that have the answers for other people.

That's a great question. And I, I, it's an easy answer. It was 2014. We decided to try this thing, start a retreat. It was a group of 5 of us who had met just through Facebook. We had all lost our spouses and said, hey, wouldn't it be cool if we could meet in person? Matt and Michaela and I sat down and planned this itinerary and went through the logistics and the schedule and the planning and sort of dove into that. And the whole time my perspective was, I'm doing this for them, I'm doing this for these other women who need this. And the minute they walked in the door that first evening, I knew I needed it. And I tell people all the time, it filled a need I didn't know I had. I felt like my needs were being met. I have a wonderful family, some wonderful military friends. But when we had that first retreat and the group of 5 of us sat down for our first meal together, it was like, oh wow, this is— it's another level of support. We could talk and just, you know, the walls came down and we connected and supported each other in a way that I think is really unique, that we weren't— that we couldn't get anywhere else.

I want to take that a little bit deeper because I work with a lot of leaders who think that asking for help means that they're not capable or that they can't do it on their own, or they're not, they're not strong enough. Now you've, you've been working with hundreds of military widows throughout this process. Now help us understand what, what's actually different about sitting across from, say, a grief counselor versus sitting around a bonfire with another widow who gets it without having to explain things.

That's it, what you said, getting it without having to explain. I think, you know, our, our, the women who come to Holbrook Farms come from all over the country, and obviously there's differences in every way. They live in different cities, they have different family situations, their, the way their spouse died is different, their life experience is different, but they all know certain things they have in common. And when, when they come to Holbrook, it's just about finding community and connection and how they can support each other and understand the things you have in common don't need to probably be said. We know certain things about each other. We understand each other day one, and The relationships can develop from there, but the foundation is just, it's just so different than sitting down with a grief counselor for the first time and trying to build a relationship with someone who may or may not really have walked in your shoes.

I would imagine that this type of work, it's so life-changingly important for the women that come there. And it's— you're— you've been running retreats for how many years now, Sarah?

Since 2014. So this will be, yeah, year 12.

Year 12.

And it—

I'm sure you've got some kinks figured out, but the stakes are high, right? I mean, when you get this type of high-risk demographic together, they could so easily trigger each other and find themselves lost in an overflow of memories. I mean, all, all of the rabbit holes that the human mind can go down. I'm interested in the structure. So you're, let's unpack that structure for just a moment. Your retreats are a full week, everything is covered, and you're very deliberate about the structure. And that's, there's things that happen on day 5 that can't happen on day 1. Could you kind of talk with us a little bit about that and, um, and what it takes to actually get into the real conversation so that healing can happen?

That's so true. I— our retreats are usually 5 days, sometimes 6, and the structure, a lot of it has stayed the same over the years because we found very early that it, that it did. It just, it just kind of worked and there's two things we try to keep in mind. So tools, wellness tools, and that different tools resonate with different people in different ways. So a variety of things to dive into the physical well-being, emotional, social, financial, even providing counseling in that area. So figuring out tools that are actually helpful long-term, not just have fun for an hour and leave it behind, but tools that can resonate over time with people. And the other thing we've always maintained in our retreats is space. And there's physical space. Holbrook Farms is set on 47 acres of maple trees and dirt roads and little trails. So there's, there's physical space. You don't feel cramped. It doesn't feel like a rushed cityscape. And then there's space in the time that we spend with these women. That space can— is what makes it, I think, a personalized experience. That there's people, if they have 2 free hours, they need a nap. And there's people, if they have 2 free hours, they want to refill their coffee and chat. With someone and just sort of let it out and get their thoughts and feelings verbally expressed. There's people, if they have a free hour, they want— they ask exactly, you know, where the running trails are and how far it is if I run all the way around the lake, because that's their release. So we found it really important to leave that space, and then women use that space how they most need it, and we let them know up front This is for you. Our volunteer team that comes in, we have a team of volunteers at every retreat. They are there to serve. They are there to provide for your needs and so that you can enjoy this experience and make it what you really need it to be at this point in your life.

Sarah, I would imagine that there's a lot of training that would have to happen. With the volunteers, the words that they choose to use and how they interact with the women. I mean, that can make or break their experience.

Absolutely. We are very intentional with who we let into the bubble, if you will, you know, who we, who is a part of our retreats. We're, we're very intentional. We wanna make sure people understand that it's It's not about them. Uh, it's about these women coming to Holbrook Farms and their experience. So a heart of service and understanding that it's not a volunteer's responsibility to come up with the perfect words, cuz the perfect words don't exist. There's no sentence that magically heals grief, but a listening ear. And just a caring response and being able to hear someone's story and just simply respond, I'm sorry you went through that. I can't fix it. I'm not here to tell you how to live your life, but I'm sorry that happened to you. And that sounds hard. So yeah, we want to make sure our volunteers are understanding the space that they're in, the privilege that it is, and the responsibility that it is as well.

And you said it, the privilege that it is even to just be able to be in the presence of of the participants there. When the women are coming, are they coming by themselves? Do they bring children? Do they bring loved ones? What does that look like?

For the most part, women come on their own. Occasionally some of them might know each other from over the years, but most of the time we bring in a group of 12 strangers and it, it goes from there. Uh, we have over the years offered a partnership with a YMCA camp that's nearby because we understand for military widows, often, um, they are single moms and childcare can be a barrier to being able to take 5 days for themselves. So we have, uh, several years partnered with the YMCA camp and we've brought over 50 kids now. They get to come up with mom, they get to see where mom's gonna be. And then they get dropped off at camp and they always have a fabulous time and they know mom's taken care of. Mom knows kids are taken care of. And, uh, and then they meet back up in time to fly home.

It's a really important point here because there's the world of clinical therapy and a lot of grief healing can or needs to happen in a clinical therapy setting. But peer support is just as valuable, but it's a different type of care. Can you share with us if clinical care has a purpose or a place at Holbrook Farms or how you negotiate between the two types of support?

Great question. And I think you're totally right. The benefits of regular Contact and help from professionals are, uh, have a huge place in a lot of people's lives. We have, I would say that we're advised by professionals, but we don't bring them in for the day-to-day. So we do have a trained counselor on our, one of our committees, and she's involved in our training and basically advising our advising us how to train our volunteers, how to best support the women who come to Holbrook Farms. But some of the feedback we've actually gotten is they particularly enjoy not being told to sit in a circle and share their feelings. And again, there's a place for that, absolutely, and there's a lot of resources and organizations that provide it. They're listed on our website. We point people there whenever possible, if that's what they need. But during their time at Holbrook, we found that the feedback we get is they actually enjoy not being told when and where to share their feelings, that when it happens naturally and those peer-to-peer relationships are being built, that's one of the biggest takeaways is I didn't even expect to share so much. And I found myself at Lunch on day 2, I just, it just all came out sitting across from Marsha at lunch. So it, it seems to happen naturally at Holbrook Farms. And like I said, we don't have professionals there day to day during retreats, but we certainly are advised and guided by them in the background.

And I'm sure a lot of these natural friendships get created and cultivated while they're there. Does the program provide follow-on support or do you have, um, it sounds like you have the alumni option to become a facilitator, but like if you come to the, to the retreat once, I guess how do you keep those women who've had a special moment in time together? How do you keep that special?

Yeah, it, I think it's really important. I think. That early on we were so focused on retreat, the retreat experience, that we probably didn't focus on what happens next. But in the more recent years, I'd say honestly since COVID since the year that we couldn't bring people together in person, we found and really focused more on maintaining the connection. So some of it happens informally, the group texts, you know, I'm on a group text with everyone. Just to get their logistics figured out, airline tickets and all that. We're texting about that, but then I'll find, you know, 6 months later someone posts on the text, on the group text, my daughter graduated, or you guys, I'm really struggling today. I just took out my notes that I got at Holbrook Farms and I looked over them and I thought of you. So some of it's happening informally with the relationships that are formed. We had a group a couple years ago book a follow-on little get-together, and about 5 of them flew to Nashville just to see each other again, just to stay in touch. So it happens informally, but we have added what we call our alumni retreat. I call it our family reunion. So all alumni are invited back every other year, back up to the farm. We usually do it in September, tie it in with sort of a community event. So our supporters in Detroit Lakes get to meet some of the women who they've supported over the years, and they get to see each other, reunite, do a service project, just get back to Holbrook, remember their time there, connect with other women who've been there. So we love our alumni retreats. Just had one last September. And, uh, and then we also are looking at virtual offerings, bringing people back together because they're geographically scattered all over the place, but have a game night on Zoom, have a little— make a mocktail, have a little mocktail hour, that kind of thing, just to keep people in touch and, and plugged into those relationships.

Do you find that the women are open to connecting with one another? Is there a lot of isolation and hesitation that exists?

It is all across the board. There are women who come in just open book, ready to share, ready to connect. And there's always some that just take a little bit longer and it's just as meaningful in both situations. I think it's all across the board. And what we find is the way, again, creating that space not putting pressure on, okay, by noon tomorrow you need to finish your journal. Just leaving space, leaving room for people to open up and share or not on their own pace is, I think, what ends up making those relationships that much deeper. And when those conversations do eventually happen They're, they're just better. They're deeper because it's not forced. It comes out when someone feels safe and comfortable enough to then eventually open up and share.

Nancy, I wonder if that feels difficult for you, because that feels difficult for me to, you know, be a facilitator of a retreat or to kind of be shepherding a herd, if you will, and not have those requirements of completing assignments with deadlines and bringing the groups back together. Like, this just feels so different than corporate leadership training, which— or military professional development. Um, do you have any words of wisdom or can you share kind of what you're thinking on that?

First, I just wanna say I'm having so much fun just sitting here on the sidelines enjoying your conversation, Sarah. What you've been doing is so wonderful and I have so many questions. I don't wanna interrupt, but I think to answer your question, Shelly, that yeah, I mean, we're brought up to start what you finish, right? Especially as military members, like you don't leave things unfinished. You have to, you know, you have deadlines, you have suspenses, and to just start something and finish it or not finish it just seems so foreign. But it's all part of the process, right? It's part of the healing. So maybe I don't need to finish that. Maybe I need to, You know, start this, move on to something else. It's an interesting concept for me, one that I don't do very well, but yeah.

And that's super common. A lot of— I said we've almost had plate tug-of-war. So our volunteers, night one, we tell them, you're here to be served. The volunteers are here to serve you. You're not gonna do your dishes and you're not gonna do your— you're not gonna have to change the sheets on your bed or wash your towels, or, um, and there's women who really struggle with literally letting go of their plate. They're walking to the kitchen and they're like, I'll do it, I got it, I'll do it, I got it. And I've seen a literal plate tug of war. No, let me take it. No, I got it. No, let me take it. No, I got it.

And well, it's funny, I told you that's being a good guest.

Exactly. And we're not brought up to let go. We're brought up to, to do it and to finish it and to fix it. And so, um, it's, it's a— I mean, it's always funny when it happens, but it's this metaphor. It is, it's representative, and it's this metaphor of, no, really, for the next 5 days, we really want you to be you and enjoy your time here. And whether it's a plate, or whether it's a resource or a breathing exercise, whatever we can do to help you heal, we're gonna do it. And you gotta give up the plate. You gotta let us, you gotta let us serve you and, and let that happen. And even that is sometimes it makes a big shift. You can see a shift in someone when they really let go and are able to accept help and being served.

Circling back to your guests at the farm, um, I know you said they're widows. What are the selection criteria, I guess, for that? Does their spouse have to die while in the military, while serving in peacetime combat? Can you give us a little bit of how you select your guests?

Yep, good question. So we started with widows, and we actually added a retreat for sisters, women who've lost a sibling, in 2021. So We've had 5 of those retreats, and then this year we're adding mothers, so women who have lost a son or daughter in the military. But selection criteria, we pretty much open it to anyone whose loss was related to service in the military. We give priority to those whose loss is within the last 5 years while still serving in some active capacity, whether active duty, guard, reserves. So if there's women that meet both of those criteria, they get priority. And then beyond that, we take our registrations and it's a lottery system to fill the rest of the spots.

Imagine you get quite a few applicants. How many sessions do you have? How many retreats every year?

This year we started, started small, one, one retreat a year our first few years, and now we hold 3 to 4. So coming up in 2026, We will have 3 retreats, one in June, one in July, one in August. Focus on the, the warmer summer months up in Minnesota. We might do the winter eventually, but for now we're sticking to summer seasons where you can see the water and it's not frozen. Frozen.

It's so hard to make the decisions of expanding your scope or shifting direction from one group to another. How do you make those decisions?

Yeah, so that, that, like I said, having a good team, and it's changed over the years. So initially we thought expansion looked like more locations. We were thinking California, Colorado, expand, get bigger, get bigger. I think what we found is we want to just get better at what we are doing, and it's okay. That we're a small nonprofit based near a small town in Minnesota, and we serve 3 to 4 groups of 12 women each year. And I think we got to a point where maybe expansion geographic or more retreats, maybe that's in the future. But for now, the right path feels like getting, just getting better at what we're doing. Making sure our training for our volunteers is as good as it can be. The retreat experience is as good as it can be. We support our alumni in whatever way best serves them. So I think we found that the growth doesn't have to be bigger, more, more. It's okay to just focus on what you do and do it well. So that you're best serving the people. And, and at the end of the day, that's the mission, is serving, serving those who we serve.

You might be a small nonprofit, as you can— how can we serve you? How can the listeners help Whole Book Farms and whatever you need?

Yeah, we always say we, we want to, we want to spread the word. We want to serve, uh, as many women as we can. HolbrookFarms.org is our simple website, but spreading the word, letting people know that we are there. We really find, I think the impact is the greatest the first 5 years after a loss to really introduce people to resources and connect them with people earlier in their grief journey. So helping us reach people within that, you know, anyone who's lost someone in the military, connecting them to us so that we can be a resource. Um, and then we're always looking for volunteers with time, talents, or resources to share, bringing in those experts, like you mentioned, professionals who are willing to share their expertise with our groups in any aspect of wellness. And, and just looking for people to come serve who would want to be a part of the retreat experience on the, all on the volunteer side. So yeah, all those ways we're always just trying to get the word out and bring people who are aligned with our mission.

What keeps you at Holbrook Farms? What is it that you're getting there that you're just finding that you can't find, you can't get it anywhere else?

I get filled up every time a new group walks through the door. People say, Gosh, it's, it's so much work. It's, you're just so busy. You're, you're giving up some of your summer time, but it's, it's a net gain by far. Well, I might be tired and I might be busy leading up to a retreat, but the first night when we're sitting down and having dinner and people start sharing their stories It's just total validation that this matters. What we're doing at Holbrook Farms is meeting a need, and, and it, it just matters. And connecting with women and being able to help them, it's just amazing what a small— what feels small, 5 days out of the year doesn't seem big, but The impact can be absolutely huge and life-changing. So being a part of that, we're tired at the end of the 5 days, seeing the van drive back down the road and the house gets quiet. It's, it's sad. And it's, you know, we're physically, you know, maybe a little worn down, but I'm just so filled up by, by serving, by helping. By hearing what a wonderful time they have at Holbrook Farms, hearing the impact, hearing the difference that it's going to make, hearing what they plan to do differently when they get back home. Just being around every group at every retreat fills me back up and then some.

So our, um, our podcast is all about living out hardcore while also being at ease internally, and What I'm hearing from you is that your sense, your ability to be at ease is being drawn from the women that are coming in and experiencing the retreat. It's coming from the service mentality. How would you rephrase that for me? What helps Sarah to be at ease?

That has changed a lot over the years, and I've learned a lot and how to do that. I don't think I knew I don't think I knew how to be at ease until I was, I suppose, in my 20s a little bit. And then I think it was after Eric died, it was just like, I can't keep going at 100% with every single thing. Like, there's just gonna have to be some priorities. And so I think I've learned to put— I kind of say you have to do some things, right? So do the things. And that having an infant when Eric passed away kept me doing the things. I had to get up in the morning, I had to make sure she had diapers, I had to make sure there was food in the fridge. I, you know, you have to do certain things just to keep the wheels turning. But then after that do the things that matter. And I think that's different for everybody. And for me, my work at Holbrook Farms matters. The time I spend with my kids matters. But some things I'm just gonna say no to, and I have to be okay with that. I've never been the, uh, you know, the soccer mom that makes the super cute matching hair ties for everyone. It's not my skill. I don't have the time to devote to that. There's other women who are, and it's fabulous when they show up and it's done and it's beautiful. But I've just learned to set priorities and find— and, and it doesn't have to be a, uh, it doesn't have to be a 5-day retreat. We can't do that. You can't just hang it up for a week at a time, day to day. But I can go in my room and read for 5 minutes and get a reset, or I can do breathing, you know, going to bed and I'm just fighting that overwhelming, stressed out, maxed out. Okay, box breathing sounds simple, they teach it to kids, but box breathing as I go to bed, you know. So I, I've just found those simple resets to be at ease, and then The other things, you know, they're going to get done and they'll work themselves out.

Thank you for sharing that with us. And I don't want to answer this for you, so what is it that makes Sarah so hardcore? What is it that you are so intensely dedicated to or passionate about in your life song?

A good question. I, I say my found— I have a foundation for me personally, it's faith. Family and friends. And that foundation, I think, has kind of always been there. So I feel like even when things are at their lowest lows, I still have a foundation to fall back on. And then I think it's just— I've found a way. After leaving the military, I found freedom with my time, that someone wasn't telling me where to be. 12 to 14 hours a day, 70 hours a week. And I think I didn't want to waste it. And so finding— being intentional with my time, and that doesn't mean I'm productive like around the clock. Taking an intentional with my time might be I'm going to just absolutely turn my brain off for the next hour, put on some show that I don't have to think about, and just that's what I'm doing for the next hour. But I get to choose it, and that's a gift. That the time we have on this earth is a gift. And so I think just being intentional with my time, and then when it is time to, to work, to do Holbrook Farms, even if it's stuff that's the busy work that doesn't feel fun, you just, you do it. You go all in, you do what you've chosen to do, and kind of just give it 100%. But yeah, I think having a foundation, whatever it is for, for each person, and then just, just being intentional with your time and knowing what helps you get where it's best to spend your time. It sounds like an easy decision, but I found that it can be a difficult decision.

Very well said, Nancy. Any questions for Sarah?

I just want to say thank you for being intentional and sharing your time with us. I've learned so much and what you're doing is so phenomenal. Like you said, it's a small nonprofit. It's only a week. I've heard a lot of comments like that, but it's so much more. So thank you so much.

It is so much more, Sarah. On behalf of all of us, I wanna just give you a heartfelt encouragement that you're obviously called to do the work that you're doing. And, um, it takes a special person to really fill that unique need. So however we can be a source of strength and encouragement for you, please, you've got some friends over here in the Detroit area and you got a friend in Florida too, I guess.

So, uh, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

Sarah said something I've been holding onto since we recorded this conversation. She said that when she first walked into that retreat in 2014, she had the itinerary and the logistics, every detail planned for the women who were coming. Her whole posture going in was what she was going to do for them. And then they sat down at that dinner table and everyone's walls came down, and Sarah realized something that she had not planned for: she needed it. That need that she had named and structured and organized for the other women, it was inside of her, living quietly the whole time. I also have been in that room— not that exact room, But that moment, the one where you thought you were holding the container and helping others, when in fact you find out that you really need someone to hold you. This is what the caretaking wilderness does when it's been working on you long enough. It doesn't announce itself with a crisis. It works through accumulation. The thousand small silences, the moments you stopped asking for things that you used to, and the way that you get so good at reading the room for everyone else, but we forget to read it for ourselves. And so here's what I am taking away from Sarah's story. Underneath the retreat logistics and the paddleboard yoga and the beautiful Minnesota lakefront, there's something that shifted for her on that first night of Retreat 1. It wasn't a program. It wasn't a curriculum. It was sitting across from someone who already knew. No explanation required, no context needed. No building the case for why this particular season is hard. She already knew that, and in that knowing something, she was able to exhale, and it was a feeling she hadn't had in a very long time. The grief wilderness is its own terrain, and it has its own teaching, and that's coming. What we're talking about today is the caretaking wilderness, and they're not the same territory, even though sometimes they can share the same address. So here's the question worth sitting with this week: where are you the one holding the structure right now? The one who reads the room and handles the details, who keeps it moving for everyone around you? When's the last time that you sat down across from someone who already knew? Someone who you didn't need to explain, where you didn't need to be the first one to be okay in the room? If you can't remember, ever a time like that, then maybe that's your answer. It's worth paying attention to. Holbrook Farms is at holbrookfarms.org. If you know a military widow, a woman who's lost a sibling in service, or a mother who's lost a child in uniform, that's your go-to resource. Take the light that you heard here today and pass it along to your friend, because that's the others-over-self move. And that's also all for today. I'm host Shelly Rood. Thank you for your time and your attention. You could be anywhere right now and you're choosing to spend it with me. So thank you. As promised, I'll be back next Tuesday with another leadership lesson for those of us ambitious types when we feel like we just don't quite fit in. That's okay. I'm here to tell you that I like it that way. So keep it up. You don't have to fit in. Until next time. Stay hardcore, be at ease, and trust the process. You're listening to Hardcore and At Ease.

Keep the conversation going at join.othersoverself.com.