Running Downhill While Others Struggle: What Sets Winning Leaders Apart

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They say, well, Don, you know, you're special, you're different. You wrote a book. What, you know, it takes, it takes risk after risk after risk.

From Others Over Self, it's hardcore and at ease. A show about people who are keeping their edge without going over the edge. I'm your host, Shelley Rood, and today's guest is Donald Miller, who completely reinvented himself from bestselling author to business leader and somehow makes it look effortless while the rest of us are over here in the grind. We explore what separates leaders who seem naturally confident from those that are constantly battling to make things happen. We talk about his counterintuitive approach to risk and why perfectionist high achievers might be getting resilience completely wrong. This is Hardcore and At Ease. Picture this. I'm grinding it out on the treadmill at the gym. Sweat is just dripping. I'm trying to push through this mental wall that we all hit around the second mile, and I got my earbuds in. I'm listening to some random business podcast. When this voice cuts through my workout fog, the guy is explaining how building a business is like different parts of an airplane, the wings, the cockpit, and how each component has to work perfectly or the whole thing crashes. Now, as a former military intelligence captain, I've heard a lot of analogies. This one, pretty good. Someone finally explained business strategy in a way that made complete sense. Sense to my military brain. That voice belonged to Donald Miller, and I knew in that moment that I had to get him on our show. Here's what fascinates me about Donald. He's one of those people who seems to be running downhill while the rest of us are just battling uphill. 29 years ago, he started as a writer with big dreams and a Volkswagen van. Fast forward to today, and he's a New York Times bestselling author, with over 10 books, and he somehow managed to completely reinvent himself as a business leader running a company with 35 employees. But it's not just the professional success that caught my attention. After we recorded this interview, I had the chance to attend one of his live workshops in Nashville at the StoryBrand headquarters. I walked into his beautifully designed studio, and I have a background in broadcast television, and I'm a serious gear addict, so I notice these things, but there was clean, healthy food. There was a warm atmosphere. There was even this perfectly crafted bougie coffee, so good that I even took a picture of it and sent it to my husband. That level of excellence was in every single detail. And what struck me most wasn't the impressive setup at the StoryBrand headquarters. It was actually watching Donald mentor our small group of 40 coaches. There was just something different about how he moved through the world and approached challenges, how he seemed to make the difficult look effortless. And so that's what we're diving into today. What separates the leaders who seem to glide through obstacles from those who constantly feel like they're fighting upstream? What do they know that others don't? Now, here's my interview with Donald Miller.

Now, when I was researching who Donald Miller was, my first perception was you as an accomplished businessman, and I know that that's who you are in this decade of life.

Yeah.

But as I started to look deeper into you as a human being, I uncovered this beautiful multitude of memoirs that you have published over the years. Would you tell me about those?

Yeah. Well, that's how I got my start, you know, close to 30 years ago. That's been a long time. I just want— I always wanted to be a writer and read a lot and sort of practiced a lot and didn't know what to write about. So I thought, well, you know, I took this trip across the country in a Volkswagen van, maybe I'll just write about that. I'll reflect on what happened on that trip. And then sort of got hooked on writing this sort of memoir. I was practiced at it, had written one book, and then attended audited classes at the most godless campus in America, Reed College. And the average IQ was a point or two above genius. And so it was a really unique experience. And then wrote another book about that. And weirdly, that book hit the New York Times for like 40-something weeks, and that sort of established me as a memoirist. And then, and just kept writing. And then, you know, 7th or 8th memoir-style book, it was probably time to pivot. And so I took a chance and wrote a book about narrative structures and plot devices that could be used in marketing. So I wrote a business book. And that book took off and gave me a second career. So, you know, I, I feel like I've, I've been struck by lightning twice, but you know, you have a much higher chance of being struck by lightning if you walk around a golf course in the rain. And that's what I've been, that's what I've been doing.

So your shift from memoirs into the business world, was that like what decade of your life?

That was probably a decade ago. So, well, it wasn't probably a decade ago, it was a decade ago. So right when I got married, I got married later than the average person at 42, which I love, by the way. Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't do it any other way. I found the right woman. But the, um, you know, that was the beginning of me being a business writer. And, uh, I didn't— wasn't trying to make it work, wasn't trying to have a second career. It was literally just, I think I'm going to write another book, and I think it's going to be a business book. And that turned into another New York Times bestseller, which, uh, you know, gave me the chance to do some consulting and then start certifying coaches in my frameworks, when all of a sudden I've got, you know, 35 employees and, and life just looks really, really different. And I have loved both careers. I mean, both of those careers have just been an absolute joy. I feel like to some degree the luckiest person alive. I know a lot of that is hard work, but, you know, it takes luck also. And so I've worked very hard and, and also, you know, You gotta work really hard to buy enough lottery tickets to, to win one.

That's a good philosophy.

But you know, it couldn't have got, it could have gone worse. It has for some people, but this one worked out.

It could have. It could have. So we're talking about the word hardcore, and I have gotten to know you on a few different levels, and I'm not sure which way you're gonna go in answering our, our main question here, but what is it? What is the most hardcore thing that Donald Miller has ever done?

Well, you know, I mean, I think, I think there's a part of my personality that does not, does not hyperfocus on the negative thing that could happen if we tried something. It hyperfocuses on the positive thing that could happen. If there's a 2% chance something can work out, I say, let's go for it. I married a woman who, if there's a 2% chance things won't work, let's not do it. And so, we really do balance each other out and it's fun to get her take and she will always figure out what's the worst possible thing that could happen. And so, it's been interesting. She has helped me realize that I'm just wired very, very differently. So, I've taken a lot of risks and writing a book and starting a writing career is a risk. You know, starting a business consulting career when you've never been a business consultant was risky. We live on 15 acres where we've built an event center in the backyard and a guest house, and we entertain over 1,000 people for dinner every year and over 500 overnight guests. We basically run a free bed and breakfast.

That's because—

yeah, because we wanted to live in a place and wanted to raise a family in a place that just wasn't normal. We wanted to raise a family in a place where we were serving other people who were bringing very, very good ideas into the world. Took a risk, brought Andrew Yang, the last Democratic presidential candidate standing before Biden, and Michael Steele, who was former head of the Republican National Convention, brought them here for 2 days to talk about how to fix the country. You know, a lot of people just don't think they can do things like that. And they say, well, Don, you know, you're special, you're different, you wrote a book. Well, you know, it takes, it takes risk after risk after risk after risk after risk.

You didn't write one book.

No, I mean, there's 10 or 12 now. But I think that it's, it's, you know, the hardcore stuff doesn't— to people who take a lot of risks and accomplish a lot, nothing, nothing seems hardcore. It seems very practical to do it. And, um, and it seems like, well, there's a chance we could, we could make it happen, so we should take that chance. And by the way, if it doesn't work out, you, you tend to forget about that in seconds. I mean, you know, somebody said, what are some of the worst mistakes you've ever made? It'd actually be very hard for me to answer that because I don't remember them. Uh, there's been dozens. Talk to my wife, she's got a list. But, you know, I, I can't remember them.

And that's such an incredible mindset to be in because there are so many people that can't look past what they view as the mistakes that they've made.

Oh, and you have to. And if I could give anything to your audience, it's that it's permission to look past. And not only permission, I think you have a duty to look past your mistakes, you know, because if you can save somebody's life or if you can inspire somebody, or if you can encourage somebody, or, or if you can raise a great child or be a great spouse or be a good friend to somebody, then what that says to me is that you are useful. And not only are you useful, you are needed and you are necessary. And if you get taken out by self-talk because you have made some mistake, then you're no longer useful. You're no longer necessary. You're no longer doing the thing that we need you to do to make society work.

Even within your own head, right?

You're taking yourself out. You're the one taking yourself out. Nobody's taking you out. People are actually incredibly forgiving and incredibly kind and incredibly gracious. You're the asshole. You're the one being mean to yourself. Why do you do that? You're your worst bully. Cut it out, you know, and even more, if you've made some mistakes and you've hurt some people, all the more reason to get up and help some people.

All the more reason.

All the more reason, 'cause now you owe the world. And, you know, I just think that the number one trait that will predict anybody's usefulness and success is resiliency. How many times can you get knocked down and get back up? And if you can get back up and keep getting back up, then there's just no possible way you're not going to succeed in life. And by the way, it's go— it happens to everybody. Mistake after mistake after mistake. I remember in business, Jeff Bezos said, we've only— we've really only hit two grand slam home runs, Amazon Prime and Amazon Web Services. That's it. You know, nobody remembers that they had a phone. You know they had a phone? They had a phone. They released a phone and it failed. I mean, on and on and on, mistake after mistake after mistake after mistake, all that hit two grand slam home runs that made him one of the wealthiest people in the world. So, what happens if the 50th mistake he decides to quit? Well, he never creates Amazon Web Services or he never figures out Amazon Prime as a subscription service. So, I think it's the same. I think it's the same. I think when you— and it translates to way more than business. You know, if you tell yourself, I'm not very good at relationships, you're not going to be very good at relationships. But if you tell yourself, I'm learning to be good at relationships, and because I'm willing to learn, I'm going to be great, that is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

It is, absolutely.

Yeah, and so I just think resiliency is the number one characteristic. So, you know, the most hardcore thing I've ever done, you know, it would be hard to know because none of them actually feel that weird to me.

I would say your authorship, hands down.

Okay.

Yeah, I mean, without that, persistent—

without that, we're not having a conversation.

That's true.

But think what that takes. It takes the ability to sit down and assume you have something to say.

Yes. Tell me what it takes to write a book, because I am not a published author, and like many people, that is absolutely one of my dreams. So tell me what that—

two things: delusional optimism You have to be delusional. You have to believe that you are capable of writing something that people would be very, very interested in. Now, that is not delusional optimism. That's just probably the truth about every human being. What's delusional and where it takes delusional optimism is you don't become a good writer. You— I'm sorry, you're not born a good writer. You have to become a good writer. And if I went back and looked at my early writing and have, it's not very good. You know, it isn't very good at all. In fact, it's bad writing. But I was delusional about whether— I mean, I remember sitting down with a professor my first year in college. She gave me a D-minus on a paper. And there was— there were a few lines in the paper that I thought were poetic. And I thought I deserved an A. So I went to her, I got some time in her office, and I sat down. I said, look, people don't write like this. Look at this line. And she goes, well, Don, that's a good line, but you've missed the whole point of the essay. It's actually a terrible essay. And I go, I know, but nobody writes like that. Look at that little line. That's a really good little line. And she's looking at me like, are you nuts? Are you absolutely crazy? I was. Yes, I was absolutely I was absolutely thinking that I deserved an A for a couple little poetic lines when I'd missed the whole point of the assignment. And I think that is, in hindsight, while that might be a very annoying characteristic to be around, I had it. And it's also the reason I built on that. You know, I built on, hey, you know, who cares if I missed the point? This is a really good line. It's a really good way to phrase this. And I've got something. And she would even say, well, you know, she had, by the way, she gave me a B. She said, well, I'm gonna give you—

Oh, look at you negotiating.

Yeah, I'm gonna give you a better grade because you're right, that's a good line. However, I'm gonna hold my ground on the fact that you freaking missed this assignment and you better learn to, you know, so I think that takes a little bit of delusional optimism and, which is the opposite of the voice in your head that's saying you're no good, you'll never amount to anything, nobody wants to read this. That will be a self-fulfilling prophecy. I don't think that you are going to be able to, counter that voice very easily because it's a very powerful voice. But what you can do is turn it off. You know, I learned this cold plunging. I've gotten into cold plunging. Today is like day 300 in a row that I've gotten into sub-50-degree water. And I found early on when I first started doing it that there was nothing I could do to talk myself into it. There's nothing I could do There's no argument I can make for being that uncomfortable and willing.

That is how I felt walking into the gas chamber during basic training.

Oh my gosh, you had to?

Yeah, yeah, more than once. Many people only have to go in the gas chamber once, but I definitely have gone in more than once.

I'm wondering now why you had to go in more than once.

Well, just for training.

Okay.

Sometimes you're lucky enough to be part of a unit that goes more than once.

Well, congratulations. Um, but you probably, like I did, figured out Actually, you just have to do it. You just have to go do it. You have to physically take your body there. And the best way to do it is to not think, is just to go blank. Let your mind go completely blank. Don't think about it and get in that water. And I, and that worked. And it taught me how also to work out, to hit the gym and to, I don't feel like doing this writing assignment. I really feel like sipping coffee and eating biscuits and gravy and looking on eBay for a nice sweater. I don't feel— and you have to just say, stop, stop it. Just go blank and sit down and do it. And I think that's, that's also what it takes to be a writer, is you, you have to actually have delusional optimism about your ability. And then you— it's a writing— what people don't understand is it's a physical, um, exercise. You're physically typing on a physical computer in a physical place. And writers love to kind of live in their imagination and live in their poetry and get sentimental and talk about their favorite Wes Anderson film. None of that is useful at all. But what, what you need to do is actually sit down and do the work and do it every day and do it without thinking about it. Just get down and do it. Because look, for every book that you hold, you know, every 2 pages represents a successful 2 hours of work. Hmm. And so 300 pages is 600 hours of work and extrapolate that over—

That's a successful hours of work.

600 successful hours of work. And by the way, you really— you can't write. People will say, well, I wrote all day. I believe you, you wrote garbage all day. You can write for about 2, 2 and a half hours if you are very, very practiced at writing, uh, if you are very, very good. Professionals can get 2 and a half hours worth of writing done in a day. Amateurs can go all day long because their words are crap. That's, that's not called writing, that's called typing. So, um, congratulations, you typed for 10 hours words that nobody will ever read.

Yes, you're poor.

That's right. So, you know, it takes, it takes, it takes delusional optimism and discipline.

And I heard you say in an interview that you should not try to become a New York Times bestseller when you have young kids.

Oh no, I mean, you're going to ruin your family because you've got—

she's 3 now, right?

Yeah, she's 3 and a half.

And I have a 4-year-old and I have a 1.5-year-old and I have a 15-year-old. So I'm right there with you knowing about—

Well, but what you can get is you can find 90 minutes a day. And if you're really, really— I don't want to use the word discipline because it never feels like discipline to me. It always feels like something I want to do. But if you're able to turn off your brain and immediately get into the zone and go for 90 minutes, You can write a really good book. I think it will take you 18 months rather than 12 months. But you can write. You can write with kids. What you— what kids offer you that's negative is an excuse. You know, as soon as you say, well, I have kids, so I can't write, you're right. You have kids, so you can't write.

That's right.

And a lot of other people can. You know, we say that's the because I'm a mom excuse.

Well, because I'm a mom, you know, I have a friend who's a painter, Rebecca Robichaud. She's a single mom and she's an extremely successful painter and she makes it work. She sells her paintings for $30,000 apiece. And if she can make it work, you can make it work too, you know. And by the way, she has a great relationship with her daughter, you know. So, you know, you can make it work. You just got to figure out how to make it work. You know, Eric Thomas is a friend, the hip-hop preacher., and he's very, very controversial because his most famous line is, it's your fault. And if you actually will own the fact that whatever is happening to you is your fault, which, by the way, isn't always true, sometimes it is somebody else's fault. But if you choose to believe, well, it's my fault, then you can change the 60% of it that actually is your fault. And also, people who bully you, leave, start leaving you alone because they can't get to you. Uh, you know, it's a powerful, powerful frame to see the world and say everything that is negative that is happening to me is my fault. And then you begin to reverse engineer, okay, well, why is it my fault? Well, I choose abusive relationships, right? Yes, they are. That's their fault that they're abusing me, but it's my fault that I chose to get in this freaking relationship. It's my fault that I stay in this job that I hate, right? It's, you know, it's my fault that, by the way, I ate a cupcake last night and woke up feeling like I had a hangover. Whose fault is that? That is your freaking fault, not the country.

You're getting personal.

I choose to blame the cupcake, but honestly, it's my fault, you know? So it's just really, really helpful. It's hard, it's tough love, but, um, but it's love. It really is love when we have time to say, hey, you gotta take care of yourself.

One of my favorite cartoons of all times was Calvin and Hobbes, and there's one, one in particular where the little boy is behind his lemonade stand and he says, I don't understand, Hobbes, nobody's buying what I'm selling and everybody needs it. And Hobbes says, well, what are you selling? And they show the front of the lemonade stand and it says, a swift kick in the butt.

That's pretty good.

So thinking about your daughter I have the young kids at the older age, as you do as well, and they do take so much time, effort, energy. I'm very intrigued in knowing about your personal life. You're in Nashville. Did you grow up in Nashville?

No, I grew up in Houston, Texas. I was there till I was 21, and then I spent 20 years in Portland, Oregon, the opposite of Houston, Texas. Loved both. And then for the last 10 years, 11 years this November, uh, my wife and I have been in Nashville, Tennessee, which we also love.

Is that your forever home?

I really believe so. Yeah, I believe, I believe this is it for me. We've just created such a wonderful community here. We built our dream home and started our family here. I'm proud of the fact that my daughter will be a Tennessean and she will identify as a Tennessean.

You're proud of that?

I'm very proud of that. I've always said Tennessee is just Texas without the ego. You know, it's just Texas with humility. And by the way, the Texas ego is kind of entertaining. It's really fun to be around those folks. But Tennessee has sort of a gentle humility to it and a non-drama aspect to it. It's a very, very well-run state. It's an extremely well-led state. And it's a great place to raise a family and start a business. So I think we're here for a long time.

We do a lot of work in the mental wellness realm, especially with veterans and military. And I've been taking a look at the landscape of Nashville and it's really rising to the top of the country as a hub for mental wellness. And that's a beautiful thing to see because somebody has to fill that position.

Yeah, well, we have a great healthcare system, but, you know, a lot of healthcare is run out of Nashville. And then there's also a great mental health community here. Onsite Workshops is here, HCA is here. So there's a lot of, there are a lot of really great folks in the mental health space here. And also, you know, artists are beginning to talk about it and there's a lot of artists championing the mental health cause here in Nashville, Tennessee.

And it takes a lot of that openness and transparency, you know, and for you to be as hardcore as you are as such an accomplished and published author, if you go too far hardcore in one direction, you're going to fall off the cliff. But you haven't. You've always kept one foot planted, you know, in your faith and your values and your belief system. And for me, that's the defining moment of being at ease. And, and I know that you came to your faith understanding at a younger age. You know, you were doing preaching in college. Is there a different time, or was that the time in your life where you really felt like you were at ease in your belief system?

You know, I think when I was in college and I wrote memoirs that were surrounded with faith, I was trying to figure it out. I was trying to figure out who God is and how do we interact with him and what does he want from us? And I think as I've gotten older, I figured out that we are probably not going to be able to answer that question completely, which is where I separate from evangelicals. And for that matter, Jews and a lot of Muslims, they have, they have defined who God is and what God wants from us and who's right and who's wrong. And I really say, hey, they might be right, but, but I don't know. And by the way, they don't know either. They're just, they just think they know. And so I'm very, very comfortable with God as mystery.

They're deliriously optimistic.

Delusionally optimistic.

Delusionally. Yeah, emphasis on delusion. But I— so there are pillars. I'd love to write a book someday called The Faith I Keep, which is about the faith that I kept and the faith that I discarded. And, you know, the difference between the two. And one of the things that I keep is that God is love and that human beings, all of you, all human beings are incredibly precious to him. And that when we see human beings as precious, we are, we are, we have God's perspective on the world. And to me, that's, that's the foundation of my faith now.

I leaned into this understanding that two humans are two spirits, and it's the Spirit of God in me and the Spirit of God in you that are connecting with each other.

I think there's something to that. Yeah.

If you really genuinely believe that God will put you in touch with God's people, they're amazing. You know, I, I hear people kind of throw that away, but Donald Miller is one of God's people, and there's so many other just unbelievable human beings out there that if you were to be connected with them, you would start to just get a taste of how wide and vast that faith could be.

Yeah. That's absolutely true. I think it's just so much bigger when you just study the physical expanse of the cosmos. That what if there's a spiritual reality that is equally as mesmerizing? Right. And I think there is. And we think we understand it, but I don't think we understand it.

I don't think we're made to understand it.

No, I don't think we're capable. What is it Chesterton said? If you can get all of God into your head, it's a very small God. It's a very small— and a man-made one at that.

I heard you say that resilience was such an incredible value to lean into. What is empowering your resilience? Because you live a potentially high-stress life, but you're not. Every time I see you, I feel like you're the commanding general that has a wonderful presence that walks in the room. You're very calming, you're very authoritative, and I would just love to know how you maintain that sense of command and control. You're stress and how you—

well, first of all, I do feel stress occasionally, although my— I, I saw a therapist once who said I don't and I need to learn to, but I do think I feel stress in some ways. I think if you calculate the upside of me taking risks and getting things done, or that, you know, thousands of jobs could be created, uh, lives could be bettered, uh, you know, the upside is very, very high. The downside of me failing is that I might be embarrassed. That is a very small downside. And so when you start realizing you basically don't have anything to lose and you have everything to gain, you start working a lot harder and you start trying a lot harder at different things because so many people can benefit from you fully actualizing yourself in the world. And if you fail, by the way, people may snicker at you, but what does the world lose if somebody laughs at Donald Miller? They lose nothing. Like nothing. I lose something, but who am I? You know, I mean, why do I matter? I don't matter. You know, it's not like children are going to go hungry because Don Miller fell on his face. That's not the downside. So for me, it's once you get over yourself a little bit and you realize you're actually not that important, but the work you do and the mission you may dream up is important, then you just— yeah, you just get in, go into it.

So I heard you say that you can minimize your stress by leaning into your mission and remembering that that takes precedent over whatever measure of stress you're feeling as an insignificant human being.

Yeah, I think it's— it's— you have to hold two things in your hand at the same time, your complete and total insignificance and your extreme importance. And your total insignificance is that your story really doesn't matter. Your importance is that you can actually help other people live a better story themselves. And that my daughter's story depends heavily on whether or not I show up. Heavily. And that makes me feel important, right? That makes, that gives me a purpose to living. When it's my story, yeah, I'm not very motivated, but when I realize how important important I am and can be in the stories of my friends, my coworkers, my customers, my family, then, you know, where it really elevates, where, you know, where it really elevates, Shelley, is when you realize how important you are to God. When you say, okay, I choose to serve God by honoring the dignity of all humankind and teaching people that everybody is equal. Equal in God's eyes. And that equality is that they are very important to him. If I can elevate that message, then I become a very important player in whatever game God is playing. And I think he'll take me off the bench a lot more.

And it takes the stress off of you because it's not you.

Yeah, it's his mission.

Yeah.

He's already got your steps ordered. You're just supposed to march.

That's right. Yeah, that's right. We know what he's doing. We know what the game is. Get in the game.

And I've heard you compliment your team very, very graciously. And I think that it's wonderful to see a leader who, who can go from sort of this, you know, solopreneur, author, writer lifestyle into building a team and, and having it be done in a way where they're embodying the values forward. Can you talk to me a little bit about what that transition is like going from, you know, really just working for yourself to now you work for the teammates that you created.

Yeah, that's actually very, very true. Well, I don't know that it's very gracious. I think I'm just being accurate. You know, I've hired very, very talented people. They are extremely smart. They do— they have abilities that I don't have. I'm a very visionary leader. They are— many of them are very detail-oriented people. They can actually, I can draw up the play and they can run the play. And so we have to work together as a team. And I think it was a really, it was a, you know, a great paradigm shift for me to understand that I'm going to get a lot more done with other people than I am by myself. And by the way, if you are a solo person who really needs to micromanage every detail and every aspect of everything and you can't work with a team, you don't last very long in our culture. Because we work together. You know, we dream things up together, we execute them together. So I think just realizing, boy, if I want to get done what I want to get done, we're going to need a lot of people. And the morale of those people needs to be high. You know, it always— it bothers me when politicians run for president and they run almost against the government. You know, they'll say the government is inefficient, the government is garbage, the government is this. And then they get elected and they take over the government. Well, listen, if I were going to be CEO of some major multibillion-dollar corporation and I became CEO by crapping all over the employees before I got the job, you're not gonna have much loyalty or much productivity. So maybe part of the reason the government isn't very productive is because people keep saying they aren't very productive.

That's right, it's like a mutiny every couple of years, right?

Exactly it. Like, why not praise the military? Why not praise the Pentagon? Why not praise the people who work at the DMV? And increase their morale. That way, you can inject better systems that help them become more productive. And actually, why not praise teachers rather than, you know, hate the union? So, you know, I think a big part of leadership is making sure, you know, efficiencies are high, productivity is high, throughput is high, and morale is high.

Morale is high. Because at the end of the day, the systems and processes are wonderful.

They're still people.

They're operated by human beings. Yeah, they're operated by human beings.

Well, I want to thank you so much for being a human being in my life.

Well, thank you, and thanks for having a conversation with me.

That was Donald Miller. And wow, this idea of delusional optimism really got to me. I always thought that I was being smart by being realistic and, you know, looking for those gaps. Donald made me realize something.

Maybe I've just been overthinking and calling it wisdom and strategy.

This conversation made me think also about how I take risks and what if we need a little more delusion and a lot less analysis before we act. Here's what I want you to try. Pick this thing that you've been putting off. You know the one, just start it. Turn off your brain. Like Donald says, show up and start to do the work. I'm really curious to see what happens when you stop making excuses. I've been testing that with my social media and even with my podcasting process. It's amazing how much more productive I am, actually. And I've also been testing this 2% thing. When I want everything perfect, I ask myself, what's the 2% chance I could figure this out as I go? And honestly, I always want to do things perfectly or just not at all. But what if good enough just gets me started? It's a game changer. And here's the last thing that's really sticking with me. Resilience is not about being tough and just bouncing back. It's about moving past messy attempts fast enough to try again. Maybe the problem isn't that we mess up. Maybe it's that we remember our mistakes better than our wins. Now, the cold showers thing and the cold plunging— I am nowhere near Donald's 300 days, but there's something that I've been doing that is along those same lines, right? In the shower, I can't even do a full cold shower, but the last 2 minutes or 30 seconds, tossing it all the way to cold, it really does wake up your pores. And there's just something about doing a hard thing every day that makes everything else just seem a little bit easier. Same thing with our 2-hour work limit that he was talking about. I thought that it would be really, really non-doable in my world, but it does work. So both of these tactics are free, which I love. And if you love this episode, screenshot it and tag me at Other others of yourself with #HardcoreAndAtEase. I love seeing what lands with you. And please subscribe. It helps other leaders find these conversations. Now, your question for this week: if you focused on the 2% chance instead of the ways that things can go wrong, what would you start tomorrow? I'm Shelly Rood. Until next week, stay hardcore, be at ease, and trust the process.