Israel’s First Official Wine Region Map

Welcome to the Kosher Teruah. I'm Simon Jacob, your host for this episode from Jerusalem. Before we get started, no matter where you are, please take a moment to pray for the safe return home of all our soldiers, If you're driving in your car, please focus on the road ahead. If you're relaxing at home, please pour yourself a glass of wonderful kosher wine. Sit back, relax, and enjoy. On September 7th, Israel published its first official map of its wine regions. 8 regions, 18 sub-regions. The Ministry of Agriculture, The Ministry of Health, and the Wine and Grape Council all put their names on it. People in the industry have been talking about a map like this for 30 years. 30 years of opinions. And if you know Israelis, you know that every winery, every region, every winemaker had one. What finally moved it, and you'll hear this straight from someone who was in the room, was a decision to stop arguing about the labels and blends and marketing, and to look only at the terroir— geology, climate, soil, elevation— what the land actually does to a vine. Now, here's the question a skeptic in a wine shop would ask, and it's the first thing I asked: Israel is smaller than New Jersey. Why isn't Israel enough? What does a map give a wine that the word Israel doesn't? I'll let my guest answer that properly. But it's worth listening to because it's a very interesting answer. If you've been with the show a while, you'll know the voice of Noamah Oz. She was here in season 2, episode 45, in September. 2024. Noah is an agronomist and a viticulturist from Merom Golan, 11 years inside Golan Heights Winery, a Master of Viticulture from Australia, and now works with growers across the country and directly through the Wine and Grape Council on the problems the whole industry shares. Last time we talked, it was about rootstocks, site selection, and the fight against leafroll virus. The hard, unglamorous work underneath the vineyard. This time we talk about the entire country, the entire state of Israel, because Noah sat on a 6-person professional committee that drew these lines, along with Professor Shivi Drori. And the specialists from the Ministry of Agriculture and the Ministry of Health who brought the soil, the climate, and the mapping data to the table. I'll say it now, but I can't say it enough, that they keep handing Noa the problems nobody else wants, that other people really can't solve, and she keeps solving them. She's amazing. Without further delay, Here is my interview with Noah Moes. It's really a pleasure to talk to you. You're a returning guest on the Kosher Terroir.

I am honored.

No, no, this is from season 2, you know, episode 45. It was September 2024 that we spoke last. So it was, things have changed so, so, so much since. And we talked about vineyard site selections and rootstock and leaf roll virus fighting. And everything else that was going on. And I was pleasantly surprised to see the release of wine region map for Israel, which is just amazing. So I'd like to talk to you about that today if I can.

Yeah, sure.

Okay, great.

Love to.

All right. So let's start with a question a skeptic in a wine shop would ask. Israel is smaller than New Jersey. Why isn't it enough to just say a wine is simply from Israel? What does the map give a wine and the drinker that the word Israel doesn't?

Yeah, it's a good question. I don't know New Jersey that much, but in Israel, in Israel, it is very small, but the changes that we get in geology, climate, soil types. All of these things happen really rapidly in a very small area. I assume this is because our location, we're sitting on the Syrian-African Valley Rifts. And we have, we go, you know, I guess people who know Israel know that we have elevations from -400 in the Dead Sea up until 2,500 in the Hermon Mountain. So, and from that, you can see that obviously there's a lot of changes. And we have a coastline which is extremely affected from the Mediterranean. And then we have a desert. So, in a very, very small area, there's a lot of changes going on that influence eventually how vineyards grow.

It's amazing.

So, that's why we need— yeah.

It's absolutely an amazing thing. New Jersey is almost Monoclimate. Though it's on the coast of the ocean, it really is. And it even has some hills, nothing like Israel, but it's pretty amazing how diverse the climate and everything else that's here is. Okay, next question.

Absolutely. Yeah.

People in the industry have been talking about redrawing the map for at least 15 years. The IPEVO even published its own version in 2020. What finally broke the logjam and why did it end up taking 8 years in the process?

I don't know. I don't have a really great answer for that. I just know that it's true. People have been, you know, talking about this map way more than 15 years. I think at least 30.

Yeah.

And, and As we are, you know how Israelis are, we have many, many opinions. And so every, I don't know, wine region or winery had their own opinion about how the map should look like. I think what happened with the publishing of the IPVO map, that this was the first map that looked only on terroir. So We put aside, they put aside all the interest, let's say, of wineries in different regions and how you make blends in the winery or what would you put on the label, you know, more of commercial thoughts, let's say.

Right.

And they looked only at the terroir, which means the history, geology, climate, you know, vegetation, all of these things that define a a while. And then they made that map. And as soon as it was out there, we can— we could talk about the map again, but in a more, let's say, professional perspective. And there's still things, you know, you still have to consider, obviously marketing, and what will be the options for wineries to write on the map. And how do— what do we do if we blend areas and stuff like that? So we still, we still have to consider all these things, but I think it kind of pushed the map to be a more professional map, a more committed to terroir, let's say. And the idea of the, what we did with the sub-region and the top regions, I don't know if you define it in English.

You're doing a great job.

Yeah. Yeah. So it gives just, it gives the wineries options. Okay. If we blend 2 areas from a, a, a general region, you can write that on the label. Or if from a few regions, so you just write Israel. You have more options on what you can do with the wines blending-wise and what you can write on the label. And of course, if you want to highlight the area that you're proud of or getting great wines from or even working in, you know, some wineries will be, let's say, in the Golan and will produce only grapes from the Golan. And some wineries will be in Judean Hills, et cetera, et cetera. But some wineries will be, I don't know, sitting in Petah Tikva, and they're making wines from the Golan and from Judean Hills, and they can label the products by that area or not. They can choose what to do.

Got it.

So eventually, this, it just came to that, that everybody, there was more options and everybody could see that more clearly and And yeah, that was the result in 2026. Okay.

So you're getting to the— you discussed very well the, you know, how it was built, the committee and the criteria. Walk us through who was actually in the room. I know you were there and Shivi Drori was there. They were named, you were named as authors, but who sat on the committee and what did each person bring?

So, there were 2 committees. One was a wider one that had representatives of the Ministry of Agriculture, Ministry of Health, some legal people, like lawyers from both of those government departments.

Agencies.

There was Adam Montefiore, for instance, that gave more the marketing aspects. There was a few wineries. And winemakers that were used to be in the industry, like Ed Salzburg, if you know.

Okay, sure.

There was the lawyer that helped made the Negev and Judea appellations. So there was a lot of people that gave— everyone could give their perspective. Obviously, Tsachi Dotan from the Wine Board, and et cetera, et cetera. And that was the wider committee that discussed, let's say, more things of regulation, maybe marketing, maybe general borders, stuff like that.

Yeah.

And there was the, let's call it the professional committee, that was only 6 people. That was me, like you said, Shivi Drori. There was a guy from the Ministry of Agriculture. Actually, there are 3 guys from Ministry of Agriculture. One that is professional, his main business or work is soil reservation. So he gave us all the aspects Of the soils, there was one Mark Mark Perel, which is very known from he's giving forecasts for the for the agriculture industry. He's from the meteorological side, so gave it all the climate data. And there was a guy that is head of the GIS department in Agriculture Ministry. His name is Omer. And there's a guy Shimon Perminik. He's um he's uh. again from the agriculture department. He's a, let's say, wine— not wine guide, how do you call it? Like, he's a viticulturist that works for the government. So he's basically helping wine growers all over the state. So he knows vineyards as well, very well. Yeah, that was the professional committee. And we were sitting and discussing, like you saw, I don't know if you saw the presentation that I gave on the conference. So we were discussing very deeply soil, climate, where the border should be, where does it change, and et cetera, et cetera.

Okay. A question, and I don't know whether, well, Shivi Drori is best known for resurrecting the indigenous grape varietals from agricultural seeds, for archaeological seeds, I'm sorry, archaeological seeds. Did that perspective have anything, kind of the deep past of the wine in this land, did it do anything as far as setting borders?

No.

Okay.

I was curious. No, because first, we're looking at what's happening now, where the industry is going now, and you can see from the map where is the main interest for the industry, where the grapes are actually growing. Again, in my presentation that I— you can find it on our website. You can see the percentages of how many vineyards are in every area are growing. So we're really looking at today and maybe actually of the future where wines will grow in Israel in the future as well. But Rotshivi, you can talk to him about it, obviously, but they found indigenous grape all over the country from the Golan, Galil valleys, all the way up to the So, or down to the desert. So there was wine history all over, all over Israel.

Got it.

So it kind of correlates, but we did not consider that in our discussions.

What was the single hardest argument inside the committee? One that took the most meetings to settle? Any of these questions that you don't want to answer, you could say, you know what? I'll pass.

I don't know, actually. I'm trying to remember. I don't think we had— I think in the professional I didn't— don't think we had major arguments because we all know the industry pretty well and the country again.

Yeah.

If there were any arguments, they were really about where exactly the line should go, you know, if it's 500 meters or 550. Okay, we discussed a lot if the central mountains should end at 500 or 550. So it was things like that, you know, it wasn't something major that is— and eventually we made the decisions, but it was nothing too dramatic. It's not like I can give you news headlines. No, no.

Okay.

Yeah. But we were pretty much in agreement. What was important for us is that we will be able to explain every subregion. Why was it defined? Why did we choose to give it a subregion? What are the characteristics of that subregion? It was more, that was the work that was done.

Okay. Is there a way you can give us kind of a tour of this, the 8 regions and the 18 subregions, and take us from north to south and tell us for each region what makes it different from its neighbors? Is that possible?

That is like a 40-minute, 45-minute lecture. Okay.

Is there a way to go over it lightly? No?

Yeah, actually it's not in front of me, but I can try to do it from my memory. So the general areas, yeah, generally there's the Golan, the Galil, Carmel, Central Mountain. I also need to remember that in English. You know what?

I'll help you. The valleys, you called them, like Jezreel Valley, then Carmel, the hilly Shomron and the Negev Valley, then the mountain slopes.

No, Negev Valley, no, that's a subregion.

That's a subregion, no, but Carmel is the main region.

Yeah, exactly.

Carmel, and then mountain slopes.

Yeah, and the coastline and the Negev, coast of central—

Central Highlands and then the Negev.

Yeah.

Okay.

So yeah, so that's the general regions. You can see again, if you open the presentation and the maps, you will see that every area has its own characteristics. So mostly we consider the elevation. For example, the Golan and the Galil are ending on the lower sides at 300 meters. In the Golan, it's the south and the west side, and the Galil, it's the east and the west sides. Central mountains again ends at 550 from all of the sides.

Mm-hmm.

The foothills is 550 to 150. Then the coastline is the coastline, obviously, the coastal plain we call it.

Right.

And the Negev. And the Negev is mostly where it starts to be extremely dry and no more rain. And the soils are obviously different as well, but that's the most dramatic issue over there. And then the subregions, again, it's not a fast conversation to talk about it, but Every subregion has its own characteristic. If it's again soil or climate, elevation. We looked a lot at what we call— we call it Penman in the professional language. It's the potential of the— it's like humidity basically, but it's a combination of humidity and wind. And then that's the potential of the vine to lose water.

Okay.

So that's So that's a main issue as well. And again, you can look at the map and it's all written there, all the main characteristics. And then again, in the presentation, there's for every subregion the specifics. The other things that happened in this map that, you know, before this map was published, there was 2 appellations that were already—

Established.

Defined, established in Israel, which is the Negev and the Judea. area. And we had a discussion about that, if we are ignoring them or not. Basically, the decision was— eventually the decision was to leave those sub— those regions as is. So it means to adopt them. I don't know how to call that in a way.

Okay.

So, so we, so we won't confuse the consumers and actually the winemakers, the wineries as well. You know, they can be in a situation that they don't know what to write. Should we use this or that? And We didn't— and again, the consumers were the leading factor here, that again, we don't confuse the consumers. So basically, the Negev borders are exactly the same as the Negev appellation borders. And the same from Judean Hills and Judean Foothills, which are also two— it's Judea appellation, but that's divided to two, Judean Hills and Judean Foothills. And we again adopted these borders. as well. So this is identical in this map and also in the appellation. And then all the rest is just go around them. But it's still very loyal to, again, to the principles of defining the area. So even if— even in Yatir, we have Yatir Forest and Yatir Highlands, okay, that is divided into 2. The border there is the border of the Negev. So they're divided into 2 because of the Negev border, but they do have differences. So the highlands are higher. There's no forest there, obviously. The soils are a bit different. So it still made a lot of professional sense to divide them. So it wasn't just because of the Negev borders, but it was also.

What about what about wineries that are that are in the Negev that don't seem to be covered by it? I guess they fall into the Negev, but you know it seemed like the map was focused on Arad and you know that that area of the Negev. What about something like Yerucham with Yerucham?

Yeah, that's still that still didn't get a subregion. So for subregions, the definition was. First, that it has 500 dunams, at least 500 dunams in that subregion.

Okay.

And again, that you can define the characters of the region. There are, we know, we know that there are still more developing areas in the Negev that might, I know in the area of Beersheba, there are some, Yerucham, like you said, a little bit. Now there's a little, some planting in actually the northwestern Negev, like the Otef Aza area.

Yeah.

So things are still going on. The map, from as it was defined, that it's not static. So subregions can be added. Of course, we have to write the criteria for that. But there will be an option to add more subregions. And the next step as well is to make actually I don't know how to define it in English, like sub-sub-regions.

Okay.

So for example, we know that in the Judean foothills, there's a famous area that is called Elah Valley. Okay? That can be defined as a, again, it's like a sub-sub-region of the Judean foothills. Or in the Galil, you can look at the Kadesh Valley or whatever. Every region has their own examples of unique teruah inside that region. So that also will be the next step of the development of the map.

So is the group still together developing? Is there a timeline for reviewing it?

Yeah, I don't know. We didn't set a timeline, but after the Chagim, after the holidays, the Jewish holidays, we will sit again mostly to define How again the the the criteria for sub-subregions, and the idea there is that people will it won't come from the committee; it will come from the from the farmers, from the growers, from the wineries. If like again in the Galil, there will be a group of farmers that will say okay Kadesh Valley or wineries or winemakers doesn't matter. Kadesh Valley is unique, and we want to to make a petition for a sub-subregion named Kadesh Valley or. La Valley or whatever. That is the idea. And I don't know the timeline, but we're supposed to meet after the holidays and to define that more and publish it, of course.

How did the rule of 85% come up? Why isn't it 100%? Why isn't it 75%? Is there somebody who actually checks it?

I don't— yeah, they're supposed to check it. I think it's just a common number.

It matches the US.

Yeah, exactly. That goes in a lot of GIs and also, you know, also in varietal. When you define the varietal wines, it's also 85%. So, and again, other countries that have similar systems are also using that. So I think they just adopted it. We, we in this, in the professional committee, we didn't talk about that. It was more in the wider committee, but it's just— Makes sense.

Got it. When a shopper in the United States is looking at a wine, or a shopper in Jerusalem is looking at a wine, what should this map be able to do for them? What will— what is going to be different this week than, you know, a year ago?

I hope— what we're hoping is that the map will encourage the wineries and the professionals, again, the winemakers, the viticulturists, to discuss the place more. It was already happening, okay? Again, Negev, Judea, the Golan, obviously.

Right.

Most of the wineries in the Golan use the grapes from the Golan and say it on the label. It was already happening in Western Upper Galilee. People were writing on their label. So it was already happening as is, but now it's also, of course, now it's a legal thing. And if you say it on the label, you will be checked and you have to be committed to the truth, let's say. That's the first thing. And I think, I hope that as much as we put it on the label and the consumers and wine lovers will start getting to know the influence of the place on the wine. Because in many wines in Israel at the moment, you're drinking it, but you don't know where it's coming from. The wine can be— can have certain characteristics, but you can't say if it's because of the place or because of the winemaking process or the barrels or whatever.

You're right.

So like in every other place, we want the place to be To affect the wine taste.

100%. You're 100% right because people have a tendency, no matter where your winery is, that you're pulling in wines from the Golan or you're pulling in wines from here or there. Even some of the wineries in the desert actually bring grapes from different parts of the country. So it's being able to define that is actually really useful. Really, really.

Yeah. So now, if someone in the Negev is bringing grapes from other places, of course, it's okay and it's fine, but he won't be able to say Negev. And if he will say Negev and they will be tested and see that there's grapes from the Galilee, that's an issue. So that's the purpose of this, that if you say Negev, it's really from the Negev, or if you say Golan, the grapes are from the Golan, and et cetera, et cetera.

Okay.

And then we can start developing a language that is speaking and talking about the character of every area, what it brings to the wines.

So is the next step to go down to a real appellation system with quality tiers and permitted varietals and yield limits?

Not at the moment.

Or is that not what Israel should go down?

I think it's too soon for us. I think the industry here is so young. Like, you know, let's say the new industry. Of course, there's wines being made here for many, many years, but the professional industry, the one that is stocking, you know, varieties and terroir and stuff, is basically here for the last 50 years.

Right.

And we are still— I can tell you as viticulturists and also the winemakers, we are still learning what goes well where. So we still haven't figured out varieties, you know, what's the best varieties for us and where Is the best to grow? I don't know, petit syrah or whatever, or chardonnay. Where is the best place? So we're still kind of learning it, and and I think we're still a very young industry to start saying you know you can plant only this and this in the Golan or in the Galil, and you have to put it three years in barrels and stuff like that. I think we're not at that stage. I'm not sure that we have to be, you know, at that stage in it. Yeah, but. But we're far from that.

Even that you want to be. I mean, even the, as an example, some of the new Israelis who have opened a winery in France are particularly not going along with the definition, the appellation system, because they're trying to do what Israel does best, which is be creative and work on it and innovate 100%. It's great.

Yeah, I agree.

Okay.

I agree.

Okay. The last time you were on the show, we talked about the vineyard rootstock and the site selection and leaf roll. This time it's the country. Looking back, how does the map connect to that work? Is a clean, healthy, well-placed vineyard a precondition for a map? You know, like this?

I think, I think the map kind of, at this point, the map spreads out light on what is happening in the industry. For instance, you can say that you can see from the data that the Golan and the Galil, so basically half of the vineyards in Israel are located in the Golan and the Galil, for example.

Okay.

So you could see what is happening and what people are looking for, what the wineries are looking for. They want specific elevation maybe, or specific soils, or some conditions that it may be easier or give them better results. So I think I don't want to say anything, you know, dramatic, but I think what we can see is where is the industry going and what it's looking for. And if you can connect that to site selection, again, when you want to plant a vineyard, where do you think the best place will be? And again, what will be the characteristics that you will get from the wines if you plant it in the Negev or in the Galilee or in the Judean Hills? So it's a start. It's just the first steps, and it's really baby steps in our industry to try to understand where should we put what. But again, there's still a lot of work needs to be done to have good answers for these questions. But I think it's a first step.

At least it gives us structure to work around, which is incredibly important. I know there's a number of winemakers like Erhan Pik who are very focused on terroir. And this is, you know, this is like an ideal for that. You know, it's a structure that you can, you can actually build things on. So it's very special. I know people have been talking about this for years, and it's, it's exciting that it's come about.

Happening.

It really is. You know, it, I just, I want to say one thing about yourself. They seem to throw the most difficult problems at you, like the leaf roll problem and what have you. And I don't know whether they threw it at you thinking, well, at least, you know, if she can't do it, it won't reflect on me.

No, no.

And this as well is something that people have been talking about for years and years. And to see your name associated with it, and that you're one of the movers and shakers in getting it done, it just, it's incredible. It's incredible to see you. You're really super.

Thank you.

Really special. I'm serious. People should know that. People should really know, know your name because it's important. One last question. If, if give us one bottle, if a listener wants to taste the idea of this map, one wine that tastes unmistakably of its subregion.

Wow.

That they want to open on Shabbat? I know I'm only asking you tough questions.

Wow. That is difficult.

Is there a bottle that somebody could open and think, hey, that is that subregion?

I definitely think that whites from the Golan, so Chardonnay, Sauvignon Blanc maybe, and Cabernet as well. You can definitely taste the Golan, but the same in like Syrah from the Galilee, or I think Merlot from the central mountain, or Samaria mountains. If we go deeper into that, I don't want to name wineries, but I can tell you that there's definitely difference between if you taste these things, a wine from the Judean Hills, like you mentioned, Tzohar, Oran Pik, you taste his wines and you taste I don't know, a Bordeaux blend from the Golan, it would definitely taste different. So try it. I think it's a nice try.

Nice game to try. I'm telling you, this is going to be— this map is going to open up a whole challenge of trying to taste differences between— one of the best ways to drink wine, at least for me, is to compare. When you just drink a wine, It's, it's very hard to, you know, to— some people have an incredible memory of wines. I'm not one of those people, but I can compare from one glass to another what I'm tasting. And this, this map lays out a structure that will be fantastic to actually go through and be able to taste through and compare things back and forth.

I think we will see soon tastings in wine shops and restaurants that are doing Exactly that. I think it will be— we will start seeing it soon. You know, wine lovers will come to tastings that taste same variety or same blend from different wine regions, and I believe they will see a difference.

Yeah, 100%. So I agree with you. I really agree with you on that. One of the problems with wine tastings today is you'll go into a winery And they'll give you a white, a rosé, you know, a, a lighter red, like a Rhône red, and then a Cabernet. And, you know, so you're tasting across their, all of their offerings, but there's nothing really to connect to. There's nothing really to hang on to when you taste wine that way.

Mm-hmm.

But if you taste 2 Syrahs from different areas that have very different terroirs, It's, you know, you can taste the difference. You're actually learning. So, I think that's— you're right, 100%. I think that this lends itself to really be able to be an incredible tasting tool in the future. So—

I agree. Noah, I have to say goodbye. I'm sorry. It was really interesting to talk to you.

No, no.

I need to get my kids from school.

Go, go, go, go. I know kids run this country. Kids run this country. Please be well. Thank you very much for spending so much time with me.

Yes, thank you very much.

Be well.

Have a good holiday.

Bye bye.

Thank you. Shana tova.

This is Simon Jacob again, your host of today's episode of the Kosher Terroir. Please subscribe via your podcast provider. to be informed of our new episodes as they are released. If you're new to The Kosher Terroir, please check out our many past episodes.