From Setbacks to Success: Mark Shipp's Transformative Journey in the Insurance Industry

What can you, as an agency leader or sales leader or producer, learn from a multi, multi million dollar producer. In fact, a producer who is fired early in his career only to have the success that he has now. Well, we're going to talk on this podcast episode in my interview with Mark Shipp about mindset and what that really means, about consistent processes and about the fact that everything he does is not about him. It's about serving the needs, the wants, the desires and the outcomes of the other person. Enjoy today's Agent Leader Podcast. Welcome to the Agent Leader Podcast. This is the podcast for agency leaders to learn, to grow, to develop and ultimately become their best version possible. On this episode, I have a fantastic guest with me. Someone, in fact I told him before we started recording officially that I hear a lot about. I feel like I know this guy because he's been part of our organization different ways, long term relationship with our founder and CEO Roger Sitkins, and has grown a very substantial book of business. And I'm sure we'll talk about that. But welcome to the podcast, Mark Shipp. Mark is the executive senior Executive VP at Hub International. So Mark, welcome to the podcast.

Thank you, thank you. Thanks for having me.

Absolutely. Well, again we're going to talk about a lot of different things with Mark's experience and successes and challenges. And I also know he's someone who has accomplished a lot but wants to give a lot back. And I know he'll be able to share some of that on this podcast. But Mark, before we get into all my extremely challenging questions for you, please provide the audience some background, maybe your history in the business, a little bit about your book, your specialty. I'd love to share just some, some background information on, on you, what you do.

Sure. Well, insurance is a family business for me. My mother was in the insurance business her whole life. I worked my way through college with a variety of jobs, specifically one in construction that I really, really liked. Towards the end of my college career and you know, I was pre law and thought I wanted to be a construction lawyer. Decided after doing an internship at a law firm that I needed to pivot and do something else. So to work for about six months. My mom looks at me and she's like, Mark, I think you'd be really great insurance farmers. Supposed to have a decent training program. Why don't you go check them out? So I begrudgingly did and went over there and kind of, you know, was there for a year, found, found insurance to be fun and challenging and rewarding and got my first Insurance job, commercial insurance job. After working for farmers for a year, working with my mother and the agency that she was working for and started off somewhat successful, but not really ended up getting fired because I didn't produce. I had a, I had a, you know, a desk and a phone book and go sell kind of, kind of support. And my mom, you know, she was very technical, but she wasn't a sales oriented person. She didn't know really it was all about the coverage forms and being a super coverage guru geek. And that was kind of her thing. And that's how she would say, I'll just go, I'll make them hurt and show them where they had been misinformed about their current insurance program. And that's not the skill that I could have starting as a new producer and didn't really have any, you know, management and didn't really have any kind of support structure. It was just that, you know, here's your, here's your desk, here's your phone book. Go. And you know, started to really, you know, become a student of insurance at that time and you know, really, you know, but really the focus was how do we get new business. And after I lost my job with that firm, I worked in the car business for about six months.

Okay.

And it taught me professional selling skills. You do, you know, feature advantage, benefit presentation, all these strategies and tactics for selling cars to people that didn't know they were going to buy them that day and you know, different ways to approach strange people and to get them to entrust you and you know, get them excited about the, that car. And I found it to be somewhat fun for, for the period of time I was doing it. And after getting fired, you know, I was like, my, my ego was bruised. You know, going into the car business. By the second month I was there, I was their top salesperson. I sold like 30 cars in one month and got the biggest cash bonus you could get that time. And I was on, I was on fire. So I was like, yeah, this is time for me to really start looking at the next insurance agency. Right. Went to another brokerage, American Pacific Insurance Brokers at the time and they were small agency marketing oriented. And they gave me a tiny, tiny draw and said, said, we've got these programs, we've got this and that. We'll give you this marketing support. Go. I read this book that time called Insurance Commander. It's written by a guy named Baxter Dunbar. And he talked about having a process, having, you know, doing a diagnostic risk questionnaire, having a process And I, I followed this book to a te and it helped me just absolutely explode at the time. So I decided to focus on tree, tree care companies at that time. Just had the marketing support of that agency and I was a road warrior. I just wrote all kinds of business and had a great time, had great success with, with my process. And then what I discovered at that time was it was good to have a couple of areas of specialty at that time. It was meat, meat distributors and processors and tree care companies. And I had a, I, I could, you know, it would. Because me being a little bit ADD or a lot my, my wife would tell you so made it so it was more interesting to have a couple of different markets to, to play with and have fun with and dominate and have, you know, so you could really build out your process for each of those. That agency got into financial trouble, ended up finding Ogilvy Hill Insurance, was a producer there and they provided equity in the book. I turned equity in the book into stock in the company. Came ended up becoming a third owner of the agency. Two brothers I had were, that, were my partners. Didn't get along that great and one left and, and I became the president of the agency. We sold to Hub, you know, almost 15 years ago now. And it's been, been a great success story working with Hub. It's just, it's the, you know, we kind of have a moniker of, you know, having a boundaryless agency. And that's perfect for me because I'm able to extract resources to the benefit of our clients from all over the country. And it's, it's so fun and just great people. You know, it's a, it's a people business and I love working with great insurance people that, that love their clients. And that's, that's really been my focus.

Yeah. Fantastic. It's, and as we get into stuff, I hope that you, the audience heard like, oh yeah, I started insurance and I got fired. Because where you're at today is, is pretty incredible. And again, I don't know how much that you want to share Mark, but I, I, I, you know, I've mentioned you, you built a substantial book of business.

Right.

And, and you've talked about some of the, the failures already or at least early on, the learnings you have and couple. So I'm, I'm going to ask this question maybe in two parts or however you want to do it. First of all, I'd love for you, if you want to share with the audience kind of what you've been able to grow into because I think it would say a lot of people that I talked to earlier, like, well, I don't know if this is going to be for me. I don't know if it's going to work. I don't know if I'm good enough and, and what's possible. And then I also want, if you would. We, we, we talk all the time in our programs. I mentioned Roger Sitkins talks about you and the mindset shift and the story of Grande Gringo, which is from your trips you had Nicaragua and the fact you've had some mindset shift changes. So, hey, I guess put these together. I'd love to hear kind of what you've grown to like, what it looks like today based on some of your, your past situations you just mentioned. And a little bit about the Grande Gringo story because Roger talks about you guys having chicken wings and talking about life and business. And I want to get your perspective because I always hear Roger's side of it. I want to hear how true that is. So share some of that if you would, Mark.

Sure, sure. So, so I, you know, I think that if. I'll start with the Grande Gringo stories. Gringo. Grande. Okay. So, you know, we were part of the Sickens 100. Roger put together with Mark Rollins, a group of interested agency owners that were part of the sickens 100. And what an amazing opportunity that was to give back to and you know, really start of the start of becoming a global citizen and really understanding the plight of other cultures, other. Other countries and just the people and how absolutely awesome they were. Well, the average Nicaraguan is about 5, 2. And they see me walk in the door, I'm 6, 7, and they're like, you know, they're bewildered. And you know, we're out here, we're, you know, we're in 90 plus degree heat with whatever humidity index was, and we're, you know, hand mixing concrete and throwing brick.

Well, right.

We're throwing brick with these, with these, you know, Nicaraguans. And I don't think they ever saw Gringo work that hard, you know, and I'm, you know, and I'm able to, to throw them, you know, hand them bricks very high. And they're like, they were just amazed by all that. And it was, it was super fun and just really rewarding from their perspective of what kind of impact you have on the family. So, you know, your ticket to the game to go to this trip was to support the organization there at Bridges to Community and building one home. And you'd build a home for this Nicaraguan family and it would provide them with shelter that was hurricane proof for generations and keeps them out of the dirt, keeps them out of, you know, disease infested, you know, areas and you know, just some much more clean, clean living. So that was, that was extremely rewarding. And they came up with the name Grando Gringo for me know and it was, it I would go back there today and they would still remember me.

Wow. Yeah, we, and just again the audience won't know this, but we do our, our producer Fit program which is our sales training. The very first session, Roger opens with a story because it's about changing your thinking.

Yes.

And he's clicks and he has a picture mark of, of you standing there with you know, a Nicaraguan child, I think, but you, the size difference of, of him on your shoulder. And it's a really cool story. And so now I gotta, I gotta ask the next part. Did you guys actually have chicken wings somewhere and talk about your next click of business? And what does sound like?

So, so this, so this Roger story is two faced. So I talked Roger into going fishing with me before one of our training camps and when we went fishing and I was just kind of about close to 900,000 in revenue in my book at the time.

Yep.

And I had some kind of like internal like head trash about well what when I get to the million, what am I giving up in my life? What can I, will I still be able to have that balance and blah blah. And I started having all this, you know, am I, am I trading this for, you know, balance in my life and yada yada and you know, really it was, it was just getting through the, the fear, the, you know, the false evidence appearing real, you know, and, and once you take the borders off and your limitations off and you really focus on others and what you can do to make a difference to not only your agency, but your clients. What is it that you can do to, to be a resource to them that they can't live without and then understanding their business better than anyone, you're able to assist them make those businesses better. If your focus is to make the business better, everything else changes. It's like you're connecting them with resources that are not insurance related. You're connecting them with things in the focus is about, you know, when you have an industry like the tree care industry, my focus is very simple. Let's keep companies from killing people. And to me that's very simple but very, you know, it's Very impactful.

Yeah.

And what can we do to make. And I know the work I've done, a lot of it's, you can't, it's not measurable. But you know, the work, a lot of work that I've done in supporting the industry in tree care has prevented that. You know, different programs I've helped create with, you know, industry associations and different, you know, things. And it's, it's what we say is our goal is to, to utilize both our internal and external resources for the improvement of your business. And if we can't do that, there's no reason for you to talk with us.

Yeah, yeah, it's well said and it's interesting, you know, and when I would talk to very successful producers like yourself, Mark, and again, part of this is building multi million dollar books of business. You know, it's like, oh, and you talk to some people that are struggling, it's like, well, if I just do enough of this or this or this and they get stuck. And there's part of that. And what you're getting to is the mission.

Yes.

The why behind it.

The why? Yes.

Like, why does this matter? Because. Well, if I make this connection, and I want you to speak into this, not me, but if I make this connection or this extra touch or build this relationship, I can help this person, this organization to accomplish things and move them forward in places they couldn't without me.

Exactly. Exactly. But back to the chicken wing.

So it's yes, please.

So, yeah, the two face. So we're having chicken wings together in Fort Myers and we're having this conversation after fishing. But the, the, one of the most memorable times over chicken wings is after we were there with our week. We're over this, you know, at this kind of palapa style restaurant and they're with the whole group of agency owners and it's overlooking like the Nicaraguan volcano. And you would have thought we were in the Sahara desert for a month. I mean the piles of chicken wings that we ate, I mean just absolutely so hilarious. And you know, the, the 60 cent beers that we would have there. Just, I mean it was like you, it was such an amazing afternoon to kind of just like relax in this palava style restaurant and gorge on chicken wings and beer. It was so fun. I mean, it was such a memorable time.

Great.

That's great.

Yeah, it's, it's funny. I mean to hear that again your side of it, because Roger talks about it, it just, I mean the impact that had on him and obviously, you know, the Multiple conversations, but that one. But I think, you know, you, you hit it and I, I don't know if you agree with this or not, Marks. I love you. You know, I think you've kind of said it in different way. I did a podcast a while back and the way I expressed it was it's not the thing, it's how and why you think about the thing and meaning that the thing is important. That could be the action or the specific process. Those things are important. But how and why do you think about it? Because that ultimately to me is what's going to drive the behavior. Without that belief in it, you're going to get tired, frustrated, worn out, feel like it doesn't matter. And I think to your point, have a whole bunch of self limiting beliefs or excuses of why either it didn't matter, it wasn't important, any of that. So what's your take on that, Mark? Agree.

I totally agree. And I think really, what's really like having an agency like Hub has allowed me to think more globally and to act more globally for the organization and for myself. So removing all borders, anything is possible. It's just, it's up to your imagination on how you implement it. And that to me is an exciting thing every day that I, that I look forward to. And you know, and, and really it's being, it's having. It's a different model of servant leadership.

Yeah.

And really it's a, it's about serving the clients in a different way. It's not about selling them insurance. The focus is making a difference. And how can we do that with what we do? You know, it's, and it's having a process really. So we have a very defined process that we utilize with our clients that help us to, you know, make the process easy for them. And you know, being an industry expert, it's, it really, you know, we're able to collaborate with clients in a completely unique and beneficial way.

Yeah, that's fabulous. And you know, we talked a little bit before we officially started recording, but I would like you to speak in this a little bit, if you would. You talk to like high level producers and agencies that say, you know, is it about money or is it about winning? Of course, winning can mean a multiple, multiple things. And every time it's like winning, Winning.

Yes.

And you know, we talk before and again, part of this. And there's other producers that are in this, this boat too that you know, at this point, writing another account's not going to change your life. No, but so let Me ask you, why do you do it today? Why are you still seeking and learning and asking and growing? What, what's, what's the mission and purpose behind what you do today, Mark?

Well, it's, it's, it's, it's about being of service of others. It's about looking at the legacy that I'll be leaving behind in the insurance industry one day. It's about, it's about a mission, the mission of, you know, supporting cat reduction of catastrophic injuries and death. And then just overall, it's impacting lives of people that you are doing business with and putting people in your consciousness that you want to make a difference with and just really focusing on them. And it's, it's very rewarding and it's, it's way beyond, you know, the financial piece. It's just, it's really just, hey, let's make a difference here. And we have, we have a platform to do it.

Yeah.

And there's a little bit of nobility in our profession that says, hey, I know the actions that we're leaning towards are preventing people from dying and those families being impacted. I know. I, I saw a, an article just yesterday of an, of a company that hired a brand new employee that was not trained that ended up becoming a double amputee. You know, and that's what you think about, you know, hey, if I see the characteristics and the behaviors of a particular company that I think is going to kill somebody, I'm going to tell them flat out, I'm not going to do business with you. I'm not you. I'm sorry, you don't get a ticket to the game with that, with that. Without behavior and really. And, and the number one characteristic I look for with an organization that matches up well with us is how do they treat their employees. If the employees are happy, if the employees are going to pull the oars in the direction that they want to have happen cooperatively, they're going to perform better. They're going to embrace changes, they're going to do what's necessary to make that for men. They don't have to have everything right. But they love their employees and their employees love them. That, that's the number one characteristic I see that makes them better.

Yeah, it's, yeah, I think it's, it's again, so powerful and it's again, it's interesting to me, not surprising anymore. It probably used to be years ago. I'm like, oh, wasn't he focused on the next account and the next. No, I'm focused On my mission and my purpose. And I love the fact, like what you stated. I think I forgot how you said it. Like it's let's keep companies from killing each other.

No, let's keep companies from killing their employees or their employees.

Yeah, yeah, their employees. And, and part of that's like, oh, well that seems pretty, you know, basic. It's super powerful, super impactful.

Yeah.

And there's meaning and purpose behind it. So I think there's so much to learn from, from everybody, for myself and hearing that. Well, I'd like to go to next Mark is that I know that on your road to success and you continue to evolve in that there's probably been a challenge or two or a frustration along the way. So I'm not going to ask a list all of them. We'd be here for a while. I know you've got things going on, but if you would think about a top challenge or frustration either you've dealt with in the past, maybe you're able to overcome it or maybe you're dealing with it still today and you're still working through it. What jumps out at you? And again, obviously the audience we have here, what could they learn from it?

So, you know, we take the mindset that I've had about serving others, serving the industry itself, and then one of the things that, that has never happened before I launched this three years ago was a homogenous group captive for the tree care industry. And that, that is something that really took dogged determination, over 20 years of trying. And, and what I'm saying is if you have a purpose, if you have a passion and, and a direction and dogged determination, you don't give up. You can accomplish those things. And you know, now it's, you know, it's been existence for almost three years. It's a tree care specific captive called Ascend. It's the best insurance facility ever put together for the tree care industry. And it's, it's for the benefit of them and the industry itself. And so that's what I'm talking about is giving to them, giving them a platform to be able to achieve higher profits, to be able to achieve, you know, you know, and, and really it was what kind of a side thing that I really didn't realize how powerful this was going to be. But when we have the meetings, the information sharing, the, the togetherness, the camaraderie, the, the learning, the relationships that are being built because of this and we get to have these meetings, you know, once a year with all of our clients in this group at one time. And it's a. It's. It's so fun. It's great. It's rewarding for everybody. It's. It's a dream come true. And that's really because of dog and determination and focus, because I knew it could. Could happen and just needed to happen. The. The things that needed to happen were changes in attitudes from industry owners, mechanization and better safety records. That took a time to develop that. But, you know, we're having generational changes in ownership, different changes in ideas about how they treat their employees, and, you know, they're seeing better results than they ever have in this. In that industry because of that.

Yeah, there's, again, going back. I mean, this. There's certainly a tie in to all of this, and it's just back without a mission or purpose. And what really hits me is a mission and purpose about who. It's not me, it's right, it's them. And, yeah, you know, this quote's been around forever, and it's probably overused, but I love it from Zig Ziglar. If you help enough people get what they want, you can have anything you want.

Yes.

And, you know, I think I first heard that quote when I was like, you know, kind of starting my career. I'm like, oh, yeah, that's cool. Yeah, help.

My favorite Zig Ziglar, and I use it all the time. Is this your attitude, not your aptitude that determines your altitude? Yeah, because we can get punched in the face every day in this business. It's a hard business, but if you're focused on the service of others and you are. You are sharpening your craft, you understand. Always take into consideration how you are being perceived by the person on the other side of the zoom meeting or the desk. How. How are you being perceived? And if you were talking to you, what would. How would you perceive yourself? That, to me, is insight that to me is, I'm a CEO. What do they want to see from me? And how. How do I calibrate myself to that understanding the cycle psychology of a CEO or cfo. You know, we talk about matching a mirror, we talk about understanding, but really, it's. It's, you know, I'm able to say when we're, you know, being a former business owner that, hey, I understand what it's like to walk in your shoes, and I don't want somebody to come here and sell me insurance. My really, my focus is about what can we do to make your business better? Doing what we Do. And how can I connect you with some, you know, my internal and external resources to help you achieve that goal?

Yeah, yeah. It's. I mean, the central theme comes back again. I'm. Everything I'm doing, I'm creating, I'm building. Is all to serve someone else.

Yes.

And you know, some people. Oh, that sounds basic. It is. But how many people do it?

Right.

And I think there's, there's, there's so many lessons in that. I want to add one more thing because what you said hit me on from a leadership perspective. I heard this quote years back as well, said leaders see more and before others. And part of a leader's job is to have that clarity and vision of. I see it. I don't know actually how it's going to all work out yet. I don't know. Yes, but I see it. And you talked about 20 years of determination and persistence. My guess is you probably got kicked in the teeth or punched the mouth or whatever term you want to use.

Yes.

Many times.

Yes.

So how did you. I mean, part of it might go back to your mission and purpose, but what, what helped you persevere through that? Because most people do quit, right?

Well, it's just knowing that that's, That's a temporary obstacle and that if you really believe in what you're doing, it pushes you beyond that. I mean, if you look at any kind of. And what. I categorize it as research and development. If you can. If you can categorize it as research and development, and it's like, oh, well. And then you take a backwards look at what did I learn from that failure? What can I use from that failure to make it better the next time? But, but that's what research and development is. It's a, It's a series of failure after failure after failure after failure after failure until you get to the success.

Yeah. I, I hope, hope those that were listening, that weren't driving wrote that down because there is such power in that mark of, you know, the difference of. And I'll use my terminology here, I made a mistake. And my people go, oh, I suck. I'm not very good. This will never work. Versus, wow. What a great learning experience.

Yes.

Wow. And I heard. Go ahead.

When you turn it into the learning experience, it takes. It takes a negative and makes it a positive.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was going to share. I said this to an earlier call.

To someone I said. I remember.

I forgot who said it. But like, you know, some people see me today after all these years and they go, wow, this is the guy standing on top of the mountaintop. He goes, if they only knew this entire mountain was cut. Was basically poo. That's what it is. I just decided to stand on top of it instead of getting inside of it. That's the only difference. I just kept climbing out of it.

Right.

And. And it does go back to your.

Your.

Your thing on attitude. Right. That all comes back to attitude and beliefs.

Yeah.

One of the things, because I want to get this next kind of some of the learnings that you got from Roger and the Sitkins experience. You mentioned the 100, but one thing Roger always talks about, we talk about as a team. It's beliefs, behaviors, results. And a lot of people talk about, this is the result I want.

Great.

Okay, what are the behaviors? I'll do this and this. Okay, but what do you believe about those behaviors? Because if you don't believe in them, we said this earlier, you'll probably up and quit or find something else or find a reason to, you know, be discouraged in some way.

Right.

So. All right, so I want to. I want to ask you, because you've known. How long have you known Roger officially, then? Because they go back to some of your. Your trips to Nicaragua.

It's gonna. It's like 25 years. Yeah.

Okay, so 25 years. Okay. What are the behaviors? I'll do this and this. Okay, but what do you believe about those behaviors? Because if you don't believe in them, said this earlier, you'll probably up and quit or find something else or find a reason to, you know, be discouraged in some way.

Right.

So. All right, so I want to. I want to ask you, because you've. How long have you known Roger officially then? Because they go back to some of your. Your trips to Nicaragua.

It's gonna. It's like 25 years, if not long. Yeah.

Okay, so 25 years. And obviously, you know, just being associated. You know, I've been with Sitkins for seven years, so, you know, way longer and more than in myself. But I'm always interested and curious. From your perspective, what have been some of the biggest principles? Or maybe it's a strategy or maybe it's mindset that Roger or the sitkins100, the sitkins process has taught you over the years.

So it's really about having way. So to me, it was how to. How to cultivate business and really utilizing the sick and systems for business cultivation. That was much more in keeping with a professional mindset. And that to me, and having the previous knowledge that I Had from reading and adopting the book, the Insurance Commander gave me kind of the insight and I was, I was, I was ready to have, you know, something like that for, you know, for, for me and our agency. So when I became a partner at Ogilvy Hill, we. We needed some kind of a, you know, a track to run on that was very succinct and specific and was focused on growth and retention and all those things that we talk about. And it was a perfect plug and play for us as an ownership group at the time to, to set us in a strategic direction that really worked for my principles, for their principles and made us kind of made us better. And having the group that we had to. To make friends with and to share ideas and, you know, it's very similar to that thing I talked about with, you know, the group Captive. You know, it's, it's. It's really about, you know, sharing. I mean, I, you know, made so many great friends through the stickens 100. That. That was absolutely amazing. And, but really it's, it's having a defined process. It's having, you know, having. Look, being different, you know, who wants to look the same as every other insurance shill that's trying to sell insurance. And really, if we're focused on really, you know, used to call it the risk reduction approach, we had a. The risk reduction approach was a, A selling tool that was basically what we call the set offense. You know, that's, that's morphed and changed over time, but it, but having a set offense, you know, that's. That was really key and critical and then really focusing on what every other insurance shill that's trying to sell insurance. And really, if we're focused on really, you know, used to call it the risk reduction approach, we had a. The risk reduction approach was a selling tool that was basically what we call the set offense. You know, that's morphed and changed over time. What's your role? What's your role in your agency? What's your role in the development of new business? But having a set offense, that was really key and critical and then really focusing on what's your role? What's your role in your agency? What's your role in the development and. And, and of new business and retaining business and making sure that there's a final, there's a, a line between sales and service, because how many people get stuck in the service trap? They don't have an understanding. And it simply, it was the greatest thing is, and retaining business and making sure. That there's a fine line. There's a diverse. A line between sales and service, because how many people get stuck in the service trap? They don't have an understanding. And it simply, it was the greatest thing to come back to the agency after we talk about doing takeoffs, landings, and in flight emergencies, you know, that's what I'm doing. And like, oh, what is that? Well, you know, let's figure that. Let's figure out exactly what that is. And to come back to the agency after we talk about doing takeoffs, landings, and in flight emergencies, you know, that's what I'm doing. And like, oh, what is that? Well, you know, let's figure that. Let's figure out exactly what that is. And having that attitude and then really, it all of those things having that attitude and then really, it all of those things together just have really made a huge difference on my career and. And I wouldn't be here today if it wasn't for Roger. Yeah, together, it just have really made a huge difference on my career and. And I wouldn't be here today if it wasn't for Roger.

Yeah. Well, I can. He speaks obviously, so highly of you, and just from this discussion, he speaks obviously so highly of you, and just from this discussion, I was talking before started recording. I'm like, I feel like I know you, but I don't. And obviously everything you're saying here resonates right with the beliefs and the things that you're doing. And yeah, I mean, the set, offense, it's interesting. However that's. That's executed. I. I use a Washington. I was talking before we started recording, like, I feel like I know you, but I don't. And obviously everything you're saying here resonates right with the beliefs and the things that you're doing. And yeah, I mean, the set offense, it's interesting. However that's. That's executed. I use a lot of sports analogies, probably way too many, but, you know, you can go out there, the sports analogies, probably way too many, but, you know, you can go out there to the court or the field and be like, yay, we're gonna be great. And I'm so excited. Like, what are we doing exactly? Just do your best. Yeah. And you know, by the way, you know this. Could you get away with that a little bit? Sure, sure. It's just really hard to repeat and replicate and continue to grow upon it. It's like, exactly. The court or the field and be like, yay, we're gonna be great. And I'm so excited. Like, what are we doing? Just do your best. Yeah. And you know, by the way, you know, this. Could you get away with that a little bit? Sure, sure. It's just really hard to repeat here and win here when here. And I think too, you talk a little about the, the idea of this high performance team or sales or service and, and replicate and continue to grow upon it. It's like exactly here and went here when here. Another thing too, you talk a little bit about the, the idea of this high performance team or sales or service. And you know, there's so much of that that we see still. I mean, and you know, there's so much of that that we see still. I mean, in the industry of yeah, I can do everything. And you said in the industry of yeah, I can do everything. And you said the word knowing your role. Can you speak into that a little bit? Because I think some people still struggle with that. Like, well, shouldn't I still be doing more of this and more of this?

And you learn, I mean, so still, I mean, I still grapple with it. It's, it's. But you know, it's, it's something that, where you're checking yourself about what it is you're doing on a daily basis and really, where's, where's the impact that you can have on, on your clients and your team by focusing on the.

Word knowing your role? Can you speak into that on your.

Unique abilities and put it having people around you that have different unique abilities to support you where you're not strong?

Yeah.

And to me, I'd rather be my, have my heads up in the cloud thinking about what's the next big problem I'm going to solve.

Yep.

And if, if I can do that, it gives me that, you know, satisfaction that gives me that, you know, real, you know, enjoyment of this business. When we get, when you get drawn down into tactical little things, it's like Roger goes, it's an energy sucker, you know.

Yeah.

How many times have you seen Roger do that? You know, it's like, you know, take away the energy suckers and actually feed yourself with those activities that, you know, you're really great at. And it's not service for me, you know, so having great people around me that, that are focused towards, you know, serving our clients, making it a great experience for them. It always, you know, everything, everything works well.

Yeah. And when, you know, you say heads up in the clouds and thinking, like part of that is you're thinking and devising big picture solutions on some things that are critically important to these businesses.

Right.

And part of that is because you freed yourself up. And my last silly sports analogy, I used too much. I said, you know, I've never seen, at least so far on a football team where the person snaps the ball to themselves and then drops back and throws it down the field and runs and tries to catch it themselves. Right. And could you do it? Well, I don't know. Maybe. I don't know. I could try it. But there's a reason. There's specific roles, and there are people that are really good in football. You got these big, big offensive lineman. Like, they're really good at that. And you've got skilled people that are really good at that. And guess what? We're all accomplishing the same goal. Let's get to the end zone. But very unique in how we do things, and very effective and efficient versus I'll just figure it all out, Right? Yeah. Which could be really, really, really difficult. All right, Mark, I have one final official question. And anything you want to add.

All right.

My favorite question, I ask every guest on the podcast, and I don't know how far you want to go back. It's up to you whether you start your career or at some point, your younger version of you. Okay, so we can go back to the beginning, but you can tell me if there's a certain spot that you like better but the beginning of your professional career. You're walking down the street today, and you happen to bump in to the younger Mark Shipp, who's just kind of getting started in this career path, and he looks at you today and says, okay, I've only got 30 seconds. You've been through this. Can you give me one piece of advice that would be most impactful for me today? What would you say?

I would say don't be focused on the commission. Focus on them. Everything else will come come to you. And if you've, even if you, you know, you're not going to pay your grocery bill this month, if they smell you needing the account, you're gonna, you're gonna act in a way that's not in accordance with what you need to accomplish, like, you know, selling a client on cheap price, you know, whatever. The, the focus needs to be different. And if I learned that sooner, it would have been very helpful.

Wow. I love that. And I, I get so many variety of answers that there's probably more than one. But I, I, I love that. I, I just wrote down, like, no matter what, do what's best. For them.

Yes. And, and sometimes and this is something that, that I learned from my mother on the first day I was in commercial insurance. And she said, mark, you always do what's best for your clients, even in spite of them, sometimes.

Good ones. That's fantastic.

If you lose a client because you know you were doing the right thing for them, so be it. You can sleep at night.

Right. Right. And somehow the universe works for typically that also lends a success somehow. I don't know, like it's like just do the right thing.

Yes.

People that you care and serve. Right. Novel concept. I'm glad we got through 45 minutes to get to that point. But it's, it's true and so powerful and I think it Diggins sets example to have a conversation with someone like yourself that's been through that had success to come back to go, hey, don't, don't complicate the simple.

Right?

Don't complicate the simple. Well, before we depart, this is up to you, Mark. I'll leave this open. Anything goes. Anything you want to add to the audience or want to share before we officially depart on this episode.

So, so I talk about specialization and I've got, you know, a couple of different areas and there's a reason why you don't want to focus just on one thing. I would suggest focusing on, on two, two that disparate markets because you can have down cycles in, you know, revenue generating activities. Like, you know, when we had, you know, there was a, you know, when we had the market turned down, the construction industry just kind of went away side and then we had people that were focused in construction that basically lost all their income. So you need to have kind of a look at your book of business in a way where you've done a little dollar cost averaging yourself. And the focus is to me, I've got three different pots. I've got precare, I've got casinos and I have what I call custom accounts. Custom accounts are anything I want to write that fits the behavior model that I want to do business with.

Yeah.

And I would say, you know, what is it that you can't do, Mark? And it is nothing I can do anything. Give me, give me an insurance problem, I'll solve it. That's, that's that it takes longer to do. It's not the same as doing tree care and casinos. But it keeps my insurance noodle wet. It keeps, keeps us, you know, sharp with the whole marketplace and it's fun to see how we're going to do that, but it really, it's, it's having a couple of different areas so that you're, you're, you're making yourself risk. Risk averse.

Yeah, I. So that's fantastic advice and it, it really help. It reaffirms even something I heard from a very successful broker a few years back. Again, maybe you could comment on this briefly, but it doesn't have to be this exact. But he said a very similar thing. He said, you know what, what we try to build isn't this perfect, is I love to have 40% in niche 1A, 30% in niche 1B, and 30% in what I call general accounts, which means I just run because I want to.

Exactly. That's the same thing.

Yeah. And I was like, that's really interesting because. Yeah. Because I think it's important to have a focus, but you can have some fun. Yes. While you're doing it. So.

Exactly.

You hit, you hit that. Perfect. Well, Mark, again, thanks so much for being on this. This was, this was great. I took a ton of notes. I know leaders, producers, anybody in this profession can get so much out of what you just said. And although so many things would be considered, I'm putting in quotes here, by the way, basic, they're incredibly deep and powerful and I think it's been obviously the catalyst to your success. So thanks. Thanks so much for coming on and sharing that today.

You're welcome. Thanks for having me.

Absolutely.