Balancing Global TA Sourcing and Mentoring | with Gui Neves

Welcome to episode 131, 131 of the shortlist. I'm Johnny Campbell, your host for today and the CEO and co founder of Social Talent. And today on the podcast and live broadcast, for those of you joining us live on YouTube and LinkedIn, we're going to be talking about how do you balance global talent acquisition, sourcing or candidate acquisition and mentoring with regard to a global team? The war for talent, it continues to rage on. It's early 2023 when we're broadcasting, and for those of you in the recruiting or talent world, you're well aware that despite an unsettled economy, the scarcity of talent remains. It's really hard to find talent and arguably even harder to find talent right now because. Because the great resignation ended really suddenly last year. Attrition is way down. People are nervous about moving jobs, so there's not enough talent. They don't move as much and the demand is still there for new talents. And to couple this, if you're an organization hiring on great scale and hiring across the world, how do you balance that global approach to hiring and how do you build a reputation for hiring where your employer brand perception is, is going to vary so much from country to country as it does, particularly if you're a consumer brand. Joining us today to chat about this is Guy Neves. Guy is the global talent acquisition, sourcing and solutions manager at Nestle, a company hopefully most of you are familiar with. Guy has been working with Nestle since 2005 and has spent much of his career to date in hr. During this time, he's not only progressed through various different HR job roles, but he's relocated from Brazil to Europe, initially in Switzerland, and stayed joining us from Barcelona in Spain. And today he is responsible for Nestle's talent acquisition processes known as TA Solutions, as well as managing TA sourcing across three different regional centers. When lockdown hit, he also somehow found the time to set up LGBT mentoring and not for profit with over 60 mentors providing support to those people in search of jobs in the LGTBQ community. And I'm dying to chat with them about both of those areas. Guy, thank you for joining us. You're very welcome. Perhaps you can shed some light to our audience a little bit. You personally and then maybe you as a professional and some context as to your role within this.

Hi Johnny, thank you very much for the invitation. Very happy to be here. I've been known the company Social Talent for a while and it's. Yeah, it's a very Great pleasure for me to be here with you guys today. And yeah, so working with Nestle for many years. As you mentioned, Nestle is a worldwide known company. For those who are not that familiar with the company, it's been over there for more than 150 years. And it all started in Switzerland. And the founder, Angie Nestle, he was looking at solutions to improve the nutrition of kids. So that was the main driver at that time. Nowadays Nestle has over 2000 brands and at least 31 brands that worth more than a billion Swiss francs with more than 350 factories all around the world. I started working this company when I was in Brazil. So I was born and raised in Brazil, 300km away from Sao Paulo city, the big metropolis. And when I started Nestle, I joined to work in the shared services for human resources. So that was actually my first contact with human resources. I studied international affairs. I wasn't actually thinking of human resources to start my career, but that just happened that I had an internship opportunity where it all started. And then just a few years after I couldn't see myself working with anything else other than human resources.

So yeah, how did you go from there guy from working in a shared services center in broader HR to end up in talent acquisition? And was that your choice? Was it just again where your career went and would you go back?

Yeah, that's. That's so interesting question. So I, I normally tell when I'm being interviewed or even in my mentoring program that for many, many years of my career I would let you know, lucky define where I would go next. So that happened that I started working in a payroll area when I first joined the shared services. And I was always proactive and curious and trying to find out more and do more than I was intended to do at the time. And then opportunities came for me to move to the headquarters and working with HR services. So I was then broaden my scope a little bit more and getting to know a little bit of other areas in human resources. But Nestle also trusted me and trusted my potential to learn and acquire new skills. So then I was offered a chance to move to work with compensation in total rewards. I also worked with benefits as HRBP for field sales. And my last position in Brazil before I moved to Switzerland was head of talent acquisition. And I would say up to that point, many of the opportunities that came, I was just taking and welcoming all the opportunities to learn different things. And then from that moment on, the moment I learned about talent acquisition and I started work in the area I Loved it so much. Because one thing I. One thing I always tell is that the candidates will not hide anything from you during the interviews. So I fell in love with learning and understanding about businesses. So they, yeah, during the interviews they would tell me everything about the different companies, how they will do their job. And that just amazed me so much that from that moment onwards, I was in charge. I was really in charge of my career. And I was making all the decisions not only based on the. On luck, on what was being presented to me, but I was really defining where I want to go next and where I would see myself in five and ten years in the future. But that's just because I found something that I was really passionate about.

Your story reminds me of my early career in recruiting. And I used to get in trouble in the staffing firm I first started with because I would spend so long in interviews because like you, I think I just loved asking questions about how businesses work. Tell me about how that manufacturing process works. What do you make? I remember interviewing somebody from the Coca Cola bottling company. Be fascinated to understand how Coca Cola works as an organization worldwide. How they have separate entities, how they manufacture concentrates in different markets, how it's sent to bottlers, how it all connects. Maybe I didn't need to know all that to help this candidate, but I, like you, thought this is a business degree. This is fascinating to understand how the world works in different industries and different roles. And you're right, it's exciting to have that interaction with real people, do real jobs and to find out their stories. But talk to me about scale, because Nestle is a big company. You mentioned the scale of operations in terms of brands, their value, their factories. Roughly how many people does the organization employ globally?

Almost 300,000.

Wow. And so what does that translate into in terms of hires a year, then let's say last year. What kind of hires would the organization have made?

Yeah, so I would say around 60,000 hires per year. A little bit more than that is on the factories is really where the magic happens, is in the production, those areas that are so important for producing and taking those food solutions to houses everywhere in the globe. But there are still a huge amount of recruiters and recruitment hires that happens for the positions that are very hard to fill. So it's a very different approach to when we are looking for those positions that we need to hire massively to those that are more niche, more hard to feel. So we need to have different strategies for both. But Overall it's around 60,000 hires. And we count with a team of at least 550 recruiters globally. So it's a huge recruiting team and it's not easy to. To keep everyone updated and upskilled with the challenges we are facing every year. It's a complicated one, but I'm very happy that I got a chance to do this guy.

I'm going to go back to my early recruiting career and treat this like one of those interviews where they have to kick me out of. Because I'm fascinated to understand a bit more about that. What I always did as an interviewer in recruiting, and I'll do now, is I always like to understand from the top down how it all works. So walk me through how 500 people facilitate 60,000 hires. You know, is it a centralized process? Is it a. Is it. Is it, you know, decentralized in the country? Do you have a center of excellence process? Tell me how it works, why it's structured that way.

Of course. Yeah. Well, for that I need to go back in time a little bit. When I was still working in Brazil and back in 2016 when I moved to Switzerland, we were implementing this global project that we call Hire to Retire. The intention there was to simplify our processes that we have and then standardize across the different markets, the different businesses, because they were not really standardized. And then share, and by share, we mean how can we collaborate better between the different entities, between the different recruitment teams, sometimes in the same market. We had a recruitment team for one of the business, another recruitment team, doing very differently the process for another businesses. So that was some of the opportunities we saw. And at that moment in time, we were not even using the same applicant tracking system globally. So we had Taleo that were being used by maybe 50% of the markets. And the rest of the markets, they were using either local solutions or the market was so small that they didn't even had the budget to acquire a solution for talent acquisition. So that was when we started this journey of trying to standardize and collaborate more with all the markets. And yeah, so we implemented this project. So we identify what was the. Roughly the process that each market was falling at the point, even in the same market, there was lots of differences and discrepancies. So we understood that and where they were coming from. And then we designed what would be, what the ideal process would look like. And we did that with a number of workshops. So we brought people from the markets, people who were working as recruiters for factories, recruiters for headquarters, and all different businesses. And together we designed the Best approach. And after that we just needed to find a technology that could support us in that journey. And that's what we did. So we started with understanding their current process design, the best for the future. And at that moment, of course, we had to make some adjustments in the process and alignment between all of us, because what we were trying to achieve was not simple. We wanted to standardize and have the same tools and conduct the process as much similar, as much close way as possible. So it was a difficult challenge to face, a very difficult one to convince all the people to get on board and show them the benefits that this approach would have. But we managed to do that. So we accomplished this standardization in terms of technologies and process for most of the jobs and almost all markets where we are operating today.

And is that done through more of a center of excellence approach, where there's guidelines and templates, but still local management and control? Or is it more centralized, where everyone reports to a global head and goes down? Or is it a hybrid between the two?

Right, yeah. So Nestle has grown because of its decentralization. So Nestle has been decentralized for the past 150 years and more. So it wasn't our intention to centralize everything, but we wanted to make it global. We wanted to globalize things. And the way we found to do it best was by standardizing the process and still allowing markets to handle and to decide what's the best approach for them, because they are closer to the business and we want their business to succeed and we want them to succeed when supporting the business. So how we are currently organized, we have talent acquisition teams in each one of our countries. We are operating in more than 180 countries. So they have the recruitment team supporting the business there. And we do support with, well, first the global processes and technologies. So it's the same tools that they have to conduct. And of course, I would say the backbone of talent acquisition, our applicant tracking system, is the same. But then where we find different realities, where markets are struggling with particular pieces of the process, then they will find local technologies and plugins so they can be efficient. So they still have this huge local piece where they can innovate, get better and improve themselves. But what we're trying to support is the basic, the foundation to be the same. And we did create our regional center of competences that didn't exist before. So now we have three talent acquisition COCs, plus the U.S. so the three are one in LATAM, based in Sao Paulo, with people based really anywhere in Latin America. They the other one is based in Milan with people spread in all Europe. And the third one is in Kuala Lumpur with people spread in Asia, Africa and Oceania markets. So those three organizations, center of competence as we call them, they are there to support the markets and those more niche and very hard to fill type of jobs.

I suppose to me it's similar to the consumer perspective. You look at a. A candidate and a consumer. A consumer who's purchasing espresso, she doesn't want to have a very different taste when she purchases Nespresso in Sao Paulo versus Dublin versus London. She wants consistency of experience. Although locally they may operate differently, have different channels to market, have different vendor agreements, and the packaging may be slightly different, localized to each market. But at its core, the core experience needs to be similar or close to identical. I guess that's. Is that the same way you see it in Canada experience? Certain things, of course, can be localized because it's appropriate. But from a candid perspective, you need to have a global experience that needs to be consistent across many of those areas, experience processes, maybe the interviewing format, et cetera. Is that the approach you've taken as a global talent acquisition organization?

Yeah, so I would say so. It's the minimum standards of the key messages that we want to share as organization. It's a company that is. Our values are rooted in respect. So those messages, they are the same throughout the globe. So we need to, to take those messages in a consistent way. How we deliver those messages can be slightly different also because it aligns very well with the, with the brand and company perception in each of the locations. So we need to be always aware of that. When we are positioning Nestle, our consumers or our candidates, perception of the company changes very much in one area, one continent to the other. And that's also connected to the brands we have in the location. It's very strange to say that, but in some markets, even like in Brazil, there are still many consumers who thought Nestle was a Brazilian company that was created there. And that shows us the extent of the brand and reach the families and how it's connected to people's heart for so long time. So it's. Then we take, of course, we take advantage of that connection that was built by the brand and we bring it to the selection process and to the way we implement and we provide this experience to the candidates. There's always has to be a touch with the brand because the brands are the ones that people are really close to and they, they know since they were born, since very young age. Their family knows the brand. So that's, that's the thing I would say it's. We need to, to stay connected and close to the brands. And some of the brands, although some of them are iconic brands like Nescafe or KitKat or Nespresso, many brands are also local. It was created in a local context and people in that, in the area, in the region, they know it very well. So we need to also get close to our brand.

I'm keen to discuss with you the challenges of the multi brand approach and how you go to market as an employer. But firstly, maybe if you could share with me more about the decisions that you made as an organization around those processes. Because in talking to many of our customers, I know that many would look, when they look at centralization, of course, they start with an ats, a candid CRM system. It's like centralization of the software tool, the backbone, the infrastructure is the first thing you do. They'd often then look at perhaps standardization of interview process and assessment process. They'd look perhaps at some centralization of things like employer branding, maybe even campus recruiting. It might be exec recruiting. You might look at areas such as your general approach, assistance and enablement for the team. So there's certain kind of core processes that often find themselves being centralized first or that there's a need to develop a center of competence around. What did you find when the team went to do that? What did Nestle prioritize? What were the things that you looked at that you know, needed to be done first and perhaps walk us through why the decisions were made in that way.

Right, yeah. As I mentioned, Nestle was very decentralized and the process were very unique. The way they were conducting it, sourcing and employer branding wasn't part of how we would handle recruitment in many of our markets. So also because the needs of the markets and how they attract talents were happening very differently from one another. But because of that, we wanted to introduce a more modernized view to talent acquisition. So we started with designing the core processes that would happen everywhere. And that's very basic. So we start with requisition creation. We wanted that to be fully integrated into the other systems that we were also launching with talent acquisition at the same time. So data for the position would come automatically, really just a few clicks for the hiring manager to raise a requisition, then it goes to the talent acquisition team and then they start, they kick off the process by posting the job. So those steps were at least the very minimum basic step that we wanted to globalize and to standardize the piece. Where we didn't feel the need to standardize that much was the selection how we select candidates. Because Marcus had so, so many different ways of, of selecting so many different tools as well. And also we wanted to give also the markets the, the part of the process where they can innovate and then they can do the best. So all the posting, the employer branding, how we do that in the beginning of the process and also in the end with creating an unified standardized pre boarding onboarding tool that was kind of the core. But then the middle of the process when they were selecting, assessing candidates, that was giving more flexibility for them to define. What we did though was we wanted to understand what parts, what was the specific steps that was taking a lot of time and consuming the time of our recruiters so we could also introduce tools to make it easier for them. And we found that for example, the scheduling was one piece of it. Scheduling was consuming a lot of time. Imagine if you are hiring 60,000 employees a year, imagine the number of interviews we had with candidates and how many interviews we were organizing, right? So you can multiply that at least per 10 or 20 and you'll find gigantic numbers of candidates that were being interviewed every year. So also the scheduling part is something that we found was possible to standardize. But yeah, not easy because of course we understand the differences in the market. Some of them had, they were using different tools of communications. For example in the US they use more SMS as first communication tool. While in Europe or in Latam there was massive usage of WhatsApp and in China they use even a different tool. So finding a solution WeChat. Exactly. And finding a solution that was able to address those different needs for the different audiences is, is not easy. But we managed to find something that could be used by 85% of the markets.

Did you find, did you find any resistance within any particular type of process more than other processes to the change.

When you did this in every part of the process? If I'm being very honest, yes, yes, we did found because at the beginning there were, they didn't know what was going on. What is this change? I've always done the process my way. Now we have those people, those guys there in Switzerland telling me how to do my job. So that was part of the initial feeling from the markets. But we included them in the decision making process. We invited them to participate and they designed the process that they, they thought they believed was the best. So that's how we dealt with Those resistance. But, but yes, we had A lot of people were feeling scared, were feeling afraid. Now I'm gonna lose my, my empowerment, my ability to innovate. And that was not what we're trying to do. They can still innovate, they can still do things differently. It's just that we want to provide at least the very basic foundation to all of them. So then it, it will allow us to share and collaborate much more from one market to another. And when I look back, I think the decisions we took was the right one. We had to do it for facing the challenges we're facing right now with much more international recruitment happening, at least for us, Nestle, after pandemic, the business are no longer interested in defining the location we want to hire that candidate there in Barcelona or in Switzerland or in Germany. They're much more open to find wherever the talent is. And if we didn't have those basic foundations in place, you wouldn't be able to be, to be doing this today in the way that we are collaborating between the markets because the processes are similar. They know, they all know how to, to handle the system is the same system they are using in Germany or in the US or in Brazil. So that allowed us to be in this. I would say it's an advantage that we, that we have this standardized now. And I think it was, yeah, it was the right, the right thing to do.

So this is interesting because it wasn't until two and a half years ago that most companies began to have this conversation about hiring internationally and dealing with the challenge. You know, we are more progressed. Technology providers have emerged to begin to solve some of these problems for companies. How is Nestle approached that, that, that, you know, at a local level, when a hiring manager could be me coming to you saying, yeah, I don't care where they're, where they're based, right. I want my team, I want the best person and they're going to pay whatever. So what are some of the challenges both in terms of legally hiring folks in the right OPCO salary levels and equalization the equity that's involved in that. You know, what are some of the solutions you've come, you've come up with and what does that look like today, guy now two years on?

Yeah, I would say some of the challenges are first we need to understand what's the best decision in terms of legal and fiscal for the company. So where we will have better tax advantages by locating people, where it's going to cost more, where it's more expensive, where we are less likely to find top talents. So those the HR business partner are supporting the business with. But once they have discussed and understood those points and they, they raise the need for us in talent acquisition. Well, we started first defining a common approach. So for example, if one of the business, they, they have a need to recruit a scientist and they can be anywhere in Europe or at least in those three or four cities. How we have agreed to work is first let's understand where the talent exists. So we are going to, in that case we are going to run some reports and understanding where there's more availability of talent and where the demand may not be so high. So we understand that to have a first recommendation to the business and once we identify that primary location, the talent acquisition partner in that area, in that location will take the lead on the process. And then the second thing we did is creating an expert network per function or per business if you will, so they can connect easily with other talent acquisition team members in those different locations. So imagine I have someone in Germany who is leading the process because that is the primary location. That is where talents are more available. But we are also searching for candidates potentially in the United States or in Spain or in uk. So that person will connect with the recruiters in those other locations because we put them in contact, they are part of the same network and they will get the help of how to best attract where are the companies in the location we can potentially source candidates from. And at the very end of the process when we know where the candidate will be based, that's also when they make the most use of this connection. Because then again the local team, imagine in that case the candidate hired will be based in Spain. They will connect then with the local HR team in Spain to help and complete the hiring process, onboarding process. And yeah, so that's, that's how we are handling this today. So there is, we built a network of, of talent acquisition experts who are supporting each other. They know who to contact. And for us, of course it wasn't that complicated because as I mentioned, the company is very large and we do have offices and recruitment and HR teams almost everywhere. So that was one of the advantages that we are such a large organization so we can make this use of this network.

So from an advantage. Let me go back to the topic of employer branding because you mentioned that the organization over 150 years has grown through this decentralized approach. And obviously you mentioned that there are brands that are global for sure, but there are a lot of local brands I think and Again, as you said that the local market might think are very Brazilian or German or American brand, but they're actually Nestle. How does one go to market from an employer brand perspective when you have an organization that may not be known for the organization but are likely very well known for the individual brands? How, how do you balance that? How do you balance the fact that you're recruiting for the group company potentially versus, you know, trying to leverage a more localized brand that maybe is not associated with Nestle? How does that work on the ground in how you execute?

We build this link between those brands and our corporate master employer brand. And at Nestle we say we are be a force for good is our key employer brand strategic way of presenting us. And we use that in the market more and more and in just a few places. This is translated when the also Nestle Good food, Good life is translated. We also translated the BIA for us very good elsewhere it's all in English. And what we do in our processes that we always bring the brands to, to be part of the process. So we create landing pages that will capture candidates, that will capture candidates who are interested in working with us. And we do that connection there. So we present our iconic brands that are, that are local, that are also have a local impact and we always know our message. You will see that we try to work locally and making a global impact while doing that. So that's one of the way we partner with the marketing managers in different markets to build this connection. If I give you one example, we did or we do every year in many markets. But one of the examples we do a trainee program and for the trainee recruitment program we have different steps and stages of the selection and each of those stages was sponsored by one of the brands. So we had the assessment that was sponsored by KitKat or we had the online interviews that were sponsored by Nescafe. So that's how each of the markets find the innovative ways of linking the master brand of Nestle with local iconic brands that are so important for the consumers.

I love that, I love that it's, it's a really good way to connect the two and leverage the, the, the, the as you said, the global iconic brands but still leverage those local brands with what, what the local consumers and customers and potential candidates are going to be recognized. I want to move topic for just a second guy. I know that you're extremely passionate about diversity and inclusion in the talent space. And in fact more so than most guests, you've gone one step further and created your own not for profit. Talk to me with that passion and talk to me about what you've been doing.

Yeah, no, with pleasure. I would say that passion has. Has grown. And since the pandemic, I would say I Much more. I'm much more interested in working and supporting other organizations and other people because I also identify as a gay man. I'm. I married for 13 years almost with my husband, and he relocated to Switzerland and then to Barcelona with me. And, yeah, that being part of my story as well, of how I came. Came out to. To the company, to my family. So that was also important for me personally. And I. I would say during the pandemic, we were all working from home. We didn't know what was going to happen. We were always scared, afraid. And I was looking at some numbers, specifically in Brazil, about unemployment rate going up, but for the LGBT community, it was growing twice as much as the non lgbt. And that really catch my attention because I've been working with recruitment. I know how to recruit, and that's one of my skills. And I wanted to do something to help people that was facing that situation. So perhaps I could just give them a support in reviewing some people's CVs or giving some tips about how they can perform better in their interview process. And that's how it all started. So I created a website. They had my agenda only with a few different slots where people could. Anyone actually that was part of LGBT community could simply request to have a session with me. And it started like that. It was July 2020. And I remember, I still remember the very first mentoring session I had. It was someone who was looking to become an entrepreneur and didn't know how to manage and lead people. And that's also something I've been doing for a long time. So we had a lot to exchange there. But I think the uniqueness of this program is that I was in touch with people from different companies that come from very different backgrounds. So I was also learning so much about them, about different. Different cultures and different challenges that most of the people were facing at the time. And, yeah, just a few months later, I would say maybe three, four months, other people saw that initiative, saw the website that was published, and they asked to join. And then that's how it started. So slowly more people are interested and they asked to join. I would interview them and see if they were. Yeah, if they were able to support other people by mentoring them. And, yeah, so we started in a very informal way to reach now around 60 different mentors in Latin America. We have Mentors in Brazil, in Costa Rica, in Peru, Mexico, in the United States, here in Spain, at least with me, one in Switzerland as well. And, and they speak, yeah, we together speak four languages, Portuguese, English, Spanish and French. And we gave to all these mentors some training about how to best handle very difficult conversations, how they could address some of those issues, to what extent they are able to support and when it's time to give an advice to look for other type of professional help. Because we're handling with very vulnerable people who sometimes came very hurt from other, other things they faced in life. So that was also one of our concerns was to, to train those people, skill up them to, to, to provide the best they could. So that was something I was very, I still am very passionate about. I still work as a mentor. Um, and it's not always very easy to conciliate that with my professional life and also my personal life. But as it's very important to me, I do make time. I do find some 2, 3 hours at the end of my day, end of my journey. It's still early there in Brazil. So I still provide these mentoring sessions to those who need.

If any of our listeners are listening and thinking, I'd love to take part, I'd love to be involved, I'd love to maybe be a mentor and try and help this group. How could they get in touch and what kind of individuals are you looking for? What would be the criteria, Ivani, that you look for for someone to become a mentor or coach to the community?

Right, yeah. So just check out our website, it's www.lgbtmentoring.com. it's available in all those languages I mentioned and there they will find out more information about how to apply to be mentored. There is a recruitment process that we of course been working recruitment for so long we could not have a recruitment process. And yeah, what it takes to be a mentor, I would say we teach how to mentor and how to best, how to best guide the person. But the person needs to have a personal story to tell, needs to tell some, needs to have something to tell about how they've grown and how they've achieved something in their personal lives and in their careers as well. We do not select based on seniority. We believe even though some people may not be that senior in terms of years of experience or in terms of role that they have in their current organization, they might have been exposed to such tremendous experience that they, they acquired the seniority and, and the skills for that particular area. So yeah, today we, we count with mentors in different areas in hr, also in finance, marketing, supply chain, project management in any different area, all size of organizations. And yeah, people are welcome. Of course, as it's a nonprofit, we do have a team that collaborate with us at no cost that they are not making any money out of it. So it might take a little bit while to to engage with all those candidates who are applying to be mentor, but we will come back to them and then initiate the process.

If you don't mind me saying, you come across to me, I put my recruiting hat back on as someone who's very wise, very kind and has great wisdom and three attributes that shine through and have shone through in the last 40 minutes in our conversation. And I want to say well done and congratulations on all three of those. They are admirable qualities. And I'm going to ask you to close on, when we close to lean on one of those, which is your wisdom as you've shared much today. And I thank you and appreciate that you're sharing that wisdom with others through your not for profit community as well. Can you perhaps leave us with one last piece of advice to our audience? We ask every guest on the shortlist to leave us with that piece of advice. Perhaps you can share something that has been passed on to you from others who were wise and gave you advice, or perhaps it's something you've gained from your own experience. But if you were to just leave one extra piece of advice with our audience, what would that be?

I would say stay curious. Stay curious to search and find out more about things you, you have no idea. And you might, you might find out something that you are really passionate about and go for it. So staying curious for me means.

You.

Know, going deep in that topic and, and searching and, and learning and absorbing all the information you can. When I started this journey with LGBT mentoring, I wasn't at that point consider, I didn't consider myself being a LGBT rights activist. I didn't know that much in terms of concept and what was the, the latest studies about the topic. But I had to learn if I wanted to do this. So I had to study, I had to read, I had to, you know, to have this curiosity and watch every little thing about that topic matter to me. So staying curious, I would say, was the, was the key attribute for me going one step forward and creating this. But also at my role at Nestle, think curious is, is that thing that allows me to understand the struggle that different recruiters, different markets and their realities are going through and help them. If I'm not curious enough to understand what they're going through, I don't think I'll be able to help them. So staying curious for me is the, is the key one.

I love it. It came through in one of your first stories at the top of the hour when you talked about how you became passionate about by recruiting and interviewing and you know, that's the word, curiosity. That's what I loved. I had a curiosity for what people did and I recruited accountants guy, which most people think is the most boring topic in the world. But in that topic, by being curious, I found fascinating information. I agree. It's great advice. I think anyone listening who takes that advice can only be successful. Thank you so much for taking the time out of your I know amazingly busy schedule to join us here today. It's been enlightening. You're a credit to your parents, your family, to your friends, to, to your colleagues for, for, you know, your success, both in a professional context but also the personal context. I'm jealous of your, your situation. Being in Barcelona. I wish I could join you there from, from cold autumn Dublin, but next time I'm in town I'll be sure to give you a shout. And thanks so much. And likewise, when you make it to Dublin next, be sure to come and say hello to us.

I will. Thank you, Johnny. Thanks for all the social talent team as well for this invitation and for the work you guys are doing. It's amazing. It's needed and I believe this is going to make a lot of difference for having more fair recruitment processes and treat people with respect and delivering the best, the best business and brand experience for so many companies. So thanks again for the invitation.

Thank you so much. Thank you and thank you for listening this week. I really hope you enjoyed that chat. Go back and listen to it again. You're going to get so much of the second and the third listen and share it with others. It's so much appreciated. Come back next week. We're going to have another great show. It's going to be 1st of March live at 4pm UK Irish Times 11am east coast of the US 8am on the west coast are in your Spotify, Apple or wherever you get your podcast. I'm going to be joined by a good friend, Michael Matrick from Cisco. Michael is going to be talking about diversity in the C suite. Really important topic. I know one she's very passionate about Anna's work with Cisco on scale in terms of trying to drive more diversity in their C suite which has led them into a very successful organization, both in talent and every other part of the organization. So come back first of March for that live show or check out the podcast that evening wherever you listen to your podcast. Until then, thanks for listening.