How Sanofi is going beyond DEI to transform its business | with Raj Verma

At the same time, I was hearing reasons why people wanted to join a company. It was because of their diversity, equity and inclusion. It was because of their culture. It was because of the experience that they were seeing and hearing about in the workplace. So for me, those three areas, De and I, culture and experience, are so wholly integrated that you can't do one without the other. And they, for Sanofi, are huge enablers for our overall transformation. So if we don't get that right, we are not going to be as successful as we can be.

Hi and welcome to Work Smart, a podcast from Social Talent. It's all about becoming more work smart. I'm Johnny Campbell, CEO and co founder of Social Talent and this week we're talking with Raj Verma about how global healthcare giant Sanofi is going beyond DEI to transform entire business. Let's do this. Raj, you're very welcome to the show. It's great to have you on and I was hoping you could perhaps give our audience a little bit background on yourself, your career, where you're joining us from today as well.

Great, thanks, Johnny, and delighted to have been invited. Look, I'm Rajvam. I'm 20 plus years in the field of human resources. I've lived and worked all over. Most of my career has been global. I started many years ago as a generalist HR and have been fortunate to go into specialist roles, country roles, regional roles, business unit roles. And part of what I've loved about my career is the that fact, fact that I've had variety. I've worked in financial services and insurance, in manufacturing, automotive services and now healthcare. Today I'm at home. It's a Friday. I'm working from my office at home. But normally I'm based in Paris, which is where the headquarters of Sanofi are. And when I'm not there, I'm somewhere around the world traveling and meeting patients, customers and our teams around the world.

Raj, I know for you this isn't just a job. It's never been just a job. And as we're talking today about diversity, equity, inclusion, I know that's not something you just stumbled your way into, it's something you feel very passionately about. I know for me, you know, I share a similar passion for the, for the topic and I've often examined or tried to look back and figure out why I have this passion. And I have various reasons, some of them woven in coming from a perhaps, you know, not quite a lower low income family, but a family that really struggled to put money on the table. And they ended up having fortune to get a scholarship to go to a, a private school and so on, so forth. And ended up working as a young child for two women who ran a business in the 1980s when women didn't do that. And I was highly influenced by very strong female role models. And I kind of always had a chip on my shoulder surrounded by people who came from higher income families with more opportunity, kind of felt I was an outsider, didn't belong, and kind of had a chip my shoulder about that. And I always focused on equity and fairness. I probably still today maybe go a little bit overboard on the equity piece, but that's me and I've always pushed for that. And that kind of led me to where I am today and some of the agenda that I bring to the social talent curriculum. I'd love to know your story. I'd love to know if you've ever reflected on why you ended up in this role again, as you say you started in hr. It isn't that you started your life saying I need to work in dei, but what led you to this and what fires that passion in you to make this change?

Look, I think growing up with the lived experiences of where I was brought up, sort of an immigrant family working class for me at the time, and I always use this anecdote. I went to a school that was predominantly black and brown children up until the age of 11. And then I went to a secondary school where it was predominantly white children. So coming from a majority group to a minority, I think that that was when it was my first experience of being different. Because the school I went to was all of the children, their families, they all lived in the same four or five streets. So you knew everyone and that was normal. I hadn't even heard of De and I or any of that work. And I guess many people haven't until they're sort of into the world of work in particular or in academics. So for me it was really, I didn't feel different and it looked different. I was like everyone else growing up until I hit, you know, a 1200 pupil school and I was the only Asian turban wearing boy in secondary school in my class. And everybody else seemed to know everybody else. And you know, so that was my first sort of, oh, okay. Things aren't necessarily going to be the same for different reasons. And that's when I started to take a bit more of an interest in the why and why not. So I've always been very proud of where I've come from. And I think that's really important. And when you think about the work of DE and I, what does it mean to you? For me, it's about making sure everybody gets fair chance. And why would they not get fair chance because of where they were brought up or the diversity strand that they have or where they are currently today. So it's about bringing it all together. And that comes through experience. And the lived experiences that I've had over the past however many decades has been very much about listening, learning, being curious, and really continuing to understand what makes us all different, how we can connect. I've never done a role in DE&I before, you know, 20 plus years in the work of HR. I've always done stuff around DE&I. I've, you know, I've presented, I've been in conferences, I've set up employee resource groups, I've been out in the community, I've started to help with talent and mentoring, et cetera. But I've never had to create a strategy from almost scratch, a global one at that, as part of a major transformation of a huge pharmaceutical company. So that was all new when I joined some three years ago. But I think what keeps me engaged is when I think about the patients, when I think about our customers, when I think about our employees and how different they are. When you're a 95,000 plus organization, a diversity is going to be there. And it's our job to make sure that inclusion is where it all starts from. And we could talk a little bit more about that. But as I've grown through my career, I guess I felt sometimes different, but not different enough. I was lucky to get a university, I was lucky to get a scholarship. In many ways I've got huge privilege, huge. And in many ways there are tailwinds that potentially have not afforded me some opportunities that others may have got because they weren't brown or because they weren't whatever. So I think part of that, you know, you talked about having a chip on your shoulder. I'm sure we all have in one way, shape or form. But for me it's about the humility that you bring to the conversation. You know, I'm forever grateful for where I've got to through sometimes luck, sometimes hard work, sometimes serendipity. But essentially it's about learning from what I've picked up growing up and how I can share and help others so they don't have to face similar or dissimilar scenarios. And I share quite a few stories about the world of work and growing up and how it's influenced and impacted the way I think and feel about things. And I think storytelling is such an important part of getting people involved so they can find their own.

Why, Raj, we've had many fantastic guests on the show who share an equal passion for DEI for various different reasons. And many of those folks hold senior roles as DEI officers, chief D and I officers, heads of D&I, etc. Consultants. But oftentimes, despite their passion, the company they work for, even they don't mean this. Have DNI as a function to kind of decide, I don't want to say tick box, but not far off a tick box driven by maybe an outcry from their shareholders or the public or gosh knows what. And then when times get tough, it kind of gets shrunk a bit and the budget gets pulled. It's never really part of the business. I was most fascinated when we first spoke about how different Sanofi's approach to this seems to be. Could you tell me maybe the story as to where DEI fits in within the overall culture, business and structure and strategy of Sanofi and why that's different?

Do you know, one of the reasons I joined Sanofi was my meeting with our CEO. And you know, he's a white, middle aged man and you know, he's so determined to be a leader of an organization that is fair, that's equitable, that's open for all. And that inspired me, you know, to have those conversations which were, you know, how serious are you about the work of De and I? You know, where are the gaps? What? You know, it's not often the CEO is going to be intervening for a Chief Diversity officer, but the conversation we had was really beyond just De and I. He joined in 2019 and he set the tone and I think his leadership and executive mirror that tone, which is we are trying to integrate this into the everyday. So the work of De and I, for me in Sanofi is not about bolting something on, it's about building it in. And by building it in, it means that you're thinking about the policy, the process, the practice, and making sure you're creating it by design, designed around the individual, designed around equity, you know, designed around the experience. So the role that I do in Sanofi, and it goes beyond just De and I, it is also around culture. So I lead the behaviors that we're trying to really practice every day as part of our, our cultural transformation. But equally it's about the everyday experience in the workplace. And Beyond. So as I was joining, we were sort of 3/4 through lockdown, and I was listening and hearing a lot about the reasons people were looking to leave organizations. They were leaving them because of the experience of DE&I. So you had the Black Lives Movement, the Me too, all happening at the same time. They were leaving because of the culture of that organization, whether it was pertaining to flexible work or policy and practice. And they were leaving because of the experiences in the workplace that didn't resonate with them. And at the same time, I was hearing reasons why people wanted to join a company. It was because of their diversity, equity and inclusion. It was because of their culture. It was because of the experience that they were seeing and hearing about in the workplace. So for me, those three areas, DE and I, culture and experience, are so wholly integrated that you can't do one without the other. And they, for Sanofi, are huge enablers for our overall transformation. So if we don't get that right, we are not going to be as successful as we can be. And you know, my boss will always say to me that I've got license to interfere in anything and everything because part of what my team does is to pull the red thread and see where that leads to. You know, what can we do more or different, Looking at the different employee experiences and the moments that matter for individuals, right? It's a holistic approach about connecting the dots. And that's really important for Sanofi because what we're trying to do is to sustain what we're building, right? It's not about headline management. It's not about winning awards. It's about really ensuring that our people feel they belong. So we measure, we manage, we monitor, we engage, we co create, we take a very agile approach to things. We're learning as we go. We're embracing technology and the digital experience. All of these things are part and parcel of the conversation I had with our CEO before I took the job, because it's a holistic approach that you have to take. You know, these are not swim lanes, right? We're in a big pool. And we've all got to figure out how the different leaders move. So for me, taking on this leadership position at Sanofi was a huge honor because a no one had done it before. I built a team pretty much from scratch. And really, you know, when somebody, when I was joining, somebody asked me, how many people have you got in your team? Because you've got a massive agenda. So I've got 100,000 people in my team because Every single person in Sanofi has a vested interest in their own diversity, in the diversity of others, in the culture that they are helping create and the experiences that they're helping make. So we're all one organization, so we think one Sanofi, and that's really important.

My understanding is, Raj, though, this goes beyond doing the right thing, that there is a firm belief across the entire organization and from the executive, from the shareholders, that this approach, being an inclusive organization, provides better patient outcomes, which inevitably leads to better profitability and outcome for the business. So whilst, you know, those of us working in this space are massive believers in the cause, this is also top of the agenda from a business perspective, which is a beautiful coincidence that this is the right thing for the organization and right thing for shareholders as well as it will deliver the best outcomes for the business. Is that correct?

100%. Look, you know, I always lead that this is about the impact we can make with the business for our patients and for our customers. Because if we can get it right, there's a ripple effect in society. So when we were building, you know, our diversity strategy, we call it Diversity Edge, it was built around the workforce, the workplace and the marketplace. So three clear pillars and it was co created. I didn't bring in a consultant to help tell me what we need to do. We got 35 people from around the world to come and help shape what should our global strategy be and feel like in this organization. What are we trying to solve for? What are you seeing as gaps? And one of the things that everyone had said was that we've done some great work around gender in Sanofi. Fantastic work. And, you know, we've got a moonshot of getting to parity for our senior leadership by 2025, you know, and we're already hitting gender balance. So it's about taking it that step further, really pushing ourselves. And they said it's great that we're doing work on gender, but what about everything else, you know, intersectionality? What about people of color? What about people with disabilities or members of the lgbtqi, a community? What about the different generations? So part of that, listening to the organization helped us shape our strategy so that it was built by us, for us. And that's really important because people had buy in. And I can remember sharing the first draft with our exec about, you know, what we'd created and great feedback. But what I was hugely, I was overwhelmed by the sheer amount of engagement we got from people around Sanofi when we launched it internally, our internal yammer just lit up because people were so interested because they could see a little bit of themselves in every bit that we've talked about. And nothing ever changes in the world without the majority. So allyship was part and parcel of everything we spoke about. It's not about them, it's not about us, it's about how do we start to move the conversation with activity, actions and the so what's so allyship became a fundamental part of what we did. So building that approach to D and I was as inclusive as it could be. And that in itself is a story to share. It wasn't something being done to people. And I think that's exactly how we want people to practice the different behaviors that we have here at Sanofi.

Often companies focus on gender as it's an easier one to measure to focus on. It's an important one of course. And then perhaps close second people focus on kind of call it ancestry or origin, race, whatever you want to term it, particularly in the US and perhaps northwestern Europe. You mentioned five categories, you expanded out into three more as a minimum. Talk to me about that approach. I think that's a little bit different. It's a lot more expansive. To your point, it was co created, this was the business speaking, no doubt. How does that play out in an organization the size of Sanofi with a global footprint in many different markets where you have to acknowledge the fact that in different countries there are just different priorities as to what which is the burning issue for those employees and for those patients that you serve in those markets.

Look, the reason why we chose those five, not only through the lived experiences of people who are on the group, but also typically in the majority of countries they tend to be the protected characteristics that it's illegal to discriminate against. So we had to start with that premise. Not every country has all five in the same vein from a legal perspective, but majority. So when we set the strategy, it was a transversal strategy. So we had a global, very clear approach to, you know, sharpening our diversity edge. And these were some of the areas around representation that we really wanted every country to really think about. So what we did for the top 10 markets, which is roughly 70 odd percent of our of our employees, each of them had to create a diversity plan. And that plan was specific and unique to their country, their culture, the legality, what they can and can't do. And twice a year, the chief people officer, myself, we sit down with the country CEOs and their leadership to really understand the progress that they're making, so we hold them to account. And that's really important. You can't have this stuff sat in the center and you have to get it into the organization. You know, we're at 80 plus countries, so you got to make sure every country has a plan. So we're looking at the top 10 markets and making sure that they're delivering that. Now in the U.S. you know, the dynamic, the maturity of the conversation changes. With SCOTUS only a few months ago, and the impact that's had on affirmative action, you know, things are changing on an everyday basis. So, you know, I have a DNI team there that really focus on the US and there's some things we can do a lot more of. We can measure demographics, we can ask different types of questions. So they have built their plan specific to what they need to deliver in the US In France, I cannot do certain things. I cannot measure race, I cannot measure faith. But what I can do, I can talk about disability, LGBTQI plus, I can talk about gender, I can talk about culture and origins. So the country plan for France will be different. So they dial up and dial down what's most relevant. So transversely, we've got clarity of direction for local execution. It very much is based on what they are able to do right. And we're always going to be pushing the needle. We're always going to striving harder to try and influence opinion, to try and put forward perspective. You know, we have an embassy model in Sanofi, so you feel safe when you're within the remit of Sanofi right to be whoever you are. And I think that's equally important that people feel that safety, both physical and mental, is what they get when they work at Sanofi. So that local execution piece is so important. There's two other things that we did as part of our strategy. One was to set the tone from the top. So we created a diversity and equity inclusion global board. This is the first in pharma because we've actually got external D and I leaders on that board as well. So I have our CEO, I have five members of our ExComm, I have one of our global ERG leaders on rotation. I have a young generation. And the whole reason we've done that is so that we can hold ourselves to account. We can bring the outside and we can challenge ourselves and make sure that our strategy, the work that we're doing is progressing as fast as it possibly can. We're learning from our mistakes and we're getting and really taking some leapfrog action by learning from other organizations at a grassroots level. We launched last year a global ERG strategy. You know, we had over 50 ERGs plus around the world, so we've again now got five. And each of those five ERGs which link to our five diversity strands has an executive sponsor. Right? So there is nothing, there's no one on our exco who is not taking a leadership role when it comes to the work of DE and I. And that was a commitment Paul, our CEO had made. He said every one of my team will be involved visibly around the work of inclusion in Sanofi. And they all are. So you've got the tone from the top with our board, DNI board, you've got the grassroots movement. In the middle, you've got the global D and I team who are bringing everything together and working through policy, process, practice and starting to really generate the dynamic that we need to keep things moving and joining everything together. And I think that's really important. You know, at ergs, we've invested a lot of time to select the right leaders, the right deputies, helping them create a strategy, a plan, making sure that they've got that endorsement from their sponsor, give them airtime, giving them the resources, recognizing and rewarding the work that they're doing. You know, it's really important that we know these are volunteer led groups, for example, as employee resource groups. So there's so much more we can do with them and the value that they bring to our organization is phenomenal. Right? We can ask them about marketing, we can ask them about helping us with talent and education externally or going into the community, bringing forward ideas that maybe we haven't thought through yet. So they serve the great arm of consulting for the organization because they have their lived experiences and all of these things, when you start to link them up, make absolute sense. Because we're trying to move the tankard here, right? Sanofi is a big organization. We're halfway through our first set of transformation. It's called Play to Win. And it's really important that we do things in a sustainable way. We're being bold with what we're trying to do. You'll hear our leaders talk about the digitalization of being the world's first fully digital healthcare organization and leveraging technology and AI and really allowing everyone to feel that the data has been democratized so they can bring the best of themselves into the workplace and all of these things. When we're thinking about them, we always go back to the why. There's Nothing that we will do that doesn't have a so what? And there's nothing that we do that we can't go back to, say this is why we're doing it. And that's really important to be taken really seriously as a business transformation, not just de and I work.

I love your analogy of an embassy. I think that's fantastic. Very difficult to do in a company that operates in 80 countries with very different legal responsibilities and requirements in those regions. But notwithstanding that, notwithstanding that you're an organization of nearly 100,000 people, you've also brought in some fantastic change in real policies that really matter to people, not just in markets where perhaps it's expected or mandatory, but across the business. I wonder, could you discuss some of those big initiatives? I think there's something to be very proud of, and they're not usual in a company your size. Raj.

I think we're super fortunate that one of the things that we think about is the consistency of the employee experience. No matter where you are in Sanofi, why would you have a poor experience if you're in a country versus B country, Right? So we're setting a minimum standard. So there's a whole raft of things that we've done that are globally consistent. So when we looked at flexible work, you know, we were still in the midst of lockdown. We were thinking about, you know, what are we hearing out there with fully work from home, be remote in and out. So, you know, we launched a flexible work policy to give people reassurance. And we launched a hybrid model of two to three days on average each week in the workplace, consistently across the organization. So at least we knew that that was the standard that we set. You know, things like pay equity. You know, we have a global approach to pay equity with local tools for countries to determine where and if they've got gaps and how do they bridge those gaps for anything that they find. And that again, is consistent in terms of approach. In fact, for a global gender plus erg. The genesis of our parental leave policy came from there, right? They were looking at how we could do something in Europe. And actually the question was asked, why Europe? Why not the whole world? So we tested and we worked through it. We got the right engagement and we launched our very first global 14 weeks parental leave. Regardless of your family makeup, from day one, day one of joining Sanofi, you're eligible, right? In any country in the world. And we learned from that. So for, for example, because I treat everything as a business project, I think about the KPIs and how do you know whether you've been successful? Because there's a little point having a policy that nobody uses. So we measure how many people take parental leave and we have a quarterly dashboard and we make it quite visible. One of the things that we learned was that even though men could take the full 40 weeks, they weren't. Right. So the question then becomes, why aren't they taking the full 14 weeks? So, you know, we then deep dive and try and help with awareness and education and reassurance. And some of the feedback was, well, you know, I might miss opportunities for projects, I might not get promoted, I'm not going to FaceTime, I'm too much out the office or miss key things. And you know, and that was an aha moment for many when you realize, but women have no choice if they're going, they go for three, four, five months on maternity leave. So all we're doing is making sure that everyone has equal chance. And you know, you've got to be equally assured that you're not going to miss out on the opportunities of projects and promotions, et cetera, just like women won't. Right. So that storytelling really helps and having people share their experiences of being there for the first 40 weeks of their of their child. Right. Makes a huge difference. Accessibility, another big one that we'll be launching later this year. We've been working for the past six months on a global accessibility approach, both digital and physical. And the reason for that is that we have to ensure that we can't just talk about being an inclusive employer. We have to show it. What does accessibility look and feel like in Sanofi, from the workplace to the software that you use? You know, so we've got clarity on that. We've got engagement from the business. Our chief digital officer, you know, is fully supportive and involved, as is our chief people officer, our head of real estate. So we're bringing people together to make these things happen. Right? So the pragmatist in me is always thinking about how do we land this? What impact is it going to make on individuals lives, right? How are we going to get the very best talent that we possibly can reach out to? Because they can see that we are an inclusive organization. Another great experience that we launched was onboarding. So we had this whole notion of when you join a company in any country, you've got your induction and it's like six to seven hours worth of. When I joined Zoom back for day two, I'm like, good God, you know, seven hours of Zoom of All things healthcare. It was a bit too much for my small brain. But you know, the feedback we were getting, we need to really think about it in a very different way. And you know, one organization's innovation is another organization's business as usual. Look outside of your industry. So you know, we worked and co created a virtual onboarding program so that, you know, the minute you sign up to join Sanofi, you'll get a download to an app and that will take you through a virtual journey wherever you are in the world. So everybody who joins has the same understanding. On day one, you can order your laptop, your phone, you'll know what your leadership looks like, you'll know what the strategy is about, what our behaviors are expected, etc. Etc. So everybody in the whole world has that same experience and then you have to stop the inductions, right? You're not looking to double up, you're trying to optimize the experience. And that is a change management effort. But again, it's a global standard that we put in and what we're working on and still hot off the press, but we're working on our very first cancer and work policy. So being a healthcare company, we have to think about the healthcare needs of our employees. So we will be launching earlier next year. We've just shared it internally this week to huge interest and engagement about creating benefits, financially support emotionally, creating affinity groups, giving people reassurance. Whether you're a patient, a caregiver, or a manager of somebody who's impacted by cancer or other critical illnesses that you have the same across the whole world. You don't get more in one country versus the other. So again, we're raising the bar because that is what being a bold organization is all about. You know, you've got to take risks with policies and process and practice, but you've got to listen to what's important to your employees and to your teams. So you'll hear a little bit more about that in January, February, next year. But these are just examples of things that when we're building anything like this, we co create it with the organization and we have a very clear thread that goes throughout and that's to ensure that there's a consistency of experience for every Sanofian in the organization.

I know, Raj, you've done more than even those examples and change hiring processes and interview panels and lots more change to make a more equitable organization as commendable. When you look to the future, when you look to the things that you just probably aren't going to get round to before 2025. Or you just look in the wider business, maybe outside Sanofi, and you look at what organizations generally probably should prioritize. What are the big topics? What are the big kind of mountains to climb, in your opinion, for not just Sanofi, but any organization looking to be more equitable, looking to get the advantage out of a more inclusive organization. What are the other big things that you think need to be fixed or improved or made more equitable?

Look, I think there's always a new issue every single day around something that you have to be on top of. So you have to be tuned to what's happening to the world outside the social impact, the different things that we learn about different abilities, disabilities, different diversities. And how do you keep on top of that? And that's by being connected to what's happening around you. I think the world of digital and AI is right here. And how can we leverage that to ensure that, you know, we're de biasing any of those algorithms and nuances that are there that maybe we haven't quite thought through. What does that look and feel like? The feeling of belonging? You know, the work of D and I is never going to stop. It's continually part and parcel of your everyday growth as an organization. You know, your culture is embedded in your organization. And the work of D and I is a big enabler of that culture. So you can't take your foot off the pedal ever. So this is work that's never going to be finished because there'll be iterations of things that you have to keep thinking about. Right? So, you know, when I think I saw somewhere the organization of a manager who's got maybe three bots working for him or her and two people sitting next to each other and somebody remote and that world of work could become a reality. And what does that mean in terms of team dynamics? What does that mean in terms of microaggressions and inclusivity in that environment? How do you create that psychological safety and maintain it? There's a lot of things that we're doing today that I think are going to be 10x'd the more we get involved in technology for many more things than we are doing today. That for me is the biggest learning I think we need to be totally cognizant of. And again, it has to be led through the people experience, because there are some things that you could do but you wouldn't want to do. Right? Other things that actually makes more sense to automate. And what does that Mean, in terms of reskilling and the different generations, demographically, we know that we're gonna, at some point, switch so far to the right. Retirement may be a very different perception in the future. Right. So when you hit 65, 67, or whatever age in your country that you retire, I'm not so sure that's gonna be the case. And I think the third career is gonna be a key part of how you grow and get the best of. Of everyone. So I think there's a technology aspect, there's a social aspect, there's a political aspect. Right. You know, the work of DEI is polarizing. We see that in many countries around the world. So how do you start to engage in some of those conversations and the social issues that are. That are out there, you know, and then you've got environmental. There's a lot of work that we do in DNI that's connected to CSR and that social responsibility, the S of esg. Right. How do we make sure we're far more prevalent? You know, last year, Sanofi had their very first ESG, or CSR Investors Day and a quarter of that was dedicated to DE and I work because it's such a big part of the S, you know, and I think there's a huge interest, but we have to be able to storytell what we're doing, why we're doing it, how it's going to ultimately support our purpose of chasing the miracles of science, to improve people's lives. That's what we're all here to do. And I think everything we do has to ladder up to that, and we have to make the experiences that people have the very best that we can. And I think all the work we do today will just be amplified in a slightly different way every year, every decade, because the world's changing around us, and we've got to be right at the top of the curve on that.

Raj, I've loved hearing the story, your passion insights, and just the kind of direction you see it go. Amazing. Folks might think about, oh, we fixed this, we fixed that. But you're right, there's so much that's next that's on the horizon. It never stops. This challenge of bringing equity to the workplace is in a workplace that's ever changing, constantly changing around us. It was constantly new challenges. But no doubt you're up for the fight. Raj, we've reached the point of the show where you have to run. We should run you through whatever quiz the social talent team has cooked up for us, which, yeah, I Have no idea what to expect today. They're changing every week. Are you ready to go?

This could be painful, but I'll give it a go.

Let's do this. We finished our last section talking about the impact potentially of AI in the future, in the workplace and working side by side. So our producers have an AI themed quiz ready for us today. Raj. So we've asked ChatGPT for five examples of obscure business acronyms, and you and I have to guess what they stand for. And I promise you, I know nothing in advance of these.

I have not seen them.

I am as naive to them as possible. Right, so are you ready to go?

Let's. Let's go. Let's look at number one.

Okay, so our first acronym or initialism is TINSAFL T I, N S T, A, A F, L. TINSAFFEL. Do you want to make a guess of what the heck tinstaffle stands for?

Are you sure that's not a word in a different language?

I'm sure.

I have nothing rash.

Oh, trust in nobody says them. I have no idea. Right. I don't need a clue. I gotta ask our producer for a clue. Producers, give us a clue. What does this stand for? What do we think this might stand for? Give me a little bit of a hint. Tin Staffel. We need a hint. They made this up and they're gone.

Right.

Not sure what to give here. Tin staff.

Right.

I got a pass on this. Right. Okay, Raj. I know. I didn't know this was. So let's have a quick reveal. There is no such thing as a free lunch. There is no such thing as a free lunch. Okay. This might warm us up. Rise. Do we see the pattern? Emphasize everything comes with a cost, even if it seems free at first. All right, that's giving me an indication as to how this works. Let's try number two, Will we? Bog sat. Bog sat. B, O, G, S, A, T. I.

Was gonna say, you know, buy one, get one. Three. But it's not quite the same, right?

No, the bog off or whatever is not quite there.

B.

Bring own.

No.

B. I think it's a verb. Action word to start bringing.

Being, being, be.

Be of good standing at tea time.

Being our greatest self at something. Maybe.

All right, so our hint from our producers is it's often used to describe unproductive meetings.

The meeting could have been an email. I like that.

That's a good act. That would be the type of thing we're looking for. Right. Biggest of good time. Time at the end. Big. I have no idea. What the OG size. Last chance.

Oh, these are really hard.

They're really hard.

I was thinking like three letter acronyms, like TMI or something. This is, this chat pt, it's too big for us, right?

Let's see the answer. Bog stat. What is it? Bunch of guys sitting around talking. Look, it's, it's, it's got bias all over it. Often used to describe productive meetings. Okay, could be gals, you know, it could be. Yeah, you're still, you're still, you're still being exclusive now, right? Let's go over the next one. Swat, SW o t. The obvious would.

Be, I guess, Strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, threats. Too easy. Yeah. Is that. Well, it is.

Strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, threats. What do we think? I'm gonna guess it's not. That might be too easy for us. It is not that. I'm being told by our producers. Such a waste of time.

Ah, yeah, no, that's, that's not bad. That's not a bad guess there, Johnny.

That's my guess. Such a waste of time, is it? Such a waste of time. Producers, ah, see more. Tom Morrow start working on tomorrow, a play on the SWOT analysis. Okay, I'm lost.

I think we're halfway there, Johnny. They should give us half a point for that. Half a point.

Come on, let's go. We got to blame chat GPT on this one, right? Last one. KPI. So we know it's performance indicators, but it's not going to be that.

What's going to be? I see. I always get this mixed up with that YouTuber boxer, what's his name?

Is he KPI?

KSI? That's okay.

Okay, so key. Know people intimately. That's probably gonna get you arrested being.

From the sublime to the ridiculous now, isn't it?

Okay, we got none of them. What is that? Of our misery producers? Key penguin indicator.

What? Okay, that doesn't even make sense, but ChatGPT can't be, right?

Gosh, for the listeners who are left. And there aren't many listeners left at this point. Our producers have just said, sorry about this. You can't win them all, Raj. And we've just proven that ChatGPT cannot take over every job. For sure, Raj, I'm sorry for putting you through that, but I'm sure you've learned absolutely nothing from those business acronyms.

So I've got my therapist tomorrow. I'll be fine.

You'll be okay, Raj. A real pleasure to have you joined us. Thanks so much. Really looking forward to hearing what's next from Sanofi. Really excited to hear about the new initiative around cancer and how it impacts your staff and the benefits being a foreigner to everyone. That's going to be announced a little bit early next year. Keep up the hard work. Keep up the amazing work. You and the whole team. As you said, the 100,000 people who work in Di in Sanofi, you're doing an amazing job and thanks for sharing it with us.

My pleasure. Thanks, Johnny.

I thank you for joining us this week. We'll be back in two weeks with another great show. Until then, make sure to share this show with a friend and spread the love.

So they can bring the best of themselves into the workplace. Right. And all of these things, when we're thinking about them, we always go back to the why there's nothing that we will do that doesn't have a so what? And there's nothing that we do that we can't go back to, say this is why we're doing it. And that's really important to be taken really seriously as a business transformation. Not just DE and I work.

I love your analogy of an embassy. I think that's fantastic. Very difficult to do in a company that operates in 80 countries with very different legal responsibilities and requirements in those regions. But notwithstanding that, notwithstanding that you're an organization of nearly 100,000 people, you've also brought in some fantastic change in real policies that really matter to people. Not just in markets where perhaps it's expected or mandatory, but across the business. I wonder, could you discuss some of those big initiatives? I think there's something to be very proud of, and they're not usual in a company your size.

Raj, I think we're super fortunate that one of the things that we think about is the consistency of the employee experience. No matter where you are in Sanofi, why would you have a poor experience if you're in a country versus B country? So we're setting a minimum standard. So there's a whole raft of things that we've done that are globally consistent. So when we looked at flexible work, you know, we are still in the midst of lockdown. We were thinking about, you know, what are we hearing out there with fully work from home, be remote in and out. So, you know, we launched a flexible work policy to give people reassurance and we launched a hybrid model of two to three days on average each week in the workplace consistently across the organization. So at least we knew that that was the standard that we've set. You know, things like pay equity, you know, we have a global Approach to pay equity with local tools for countries to determine where and if they've got gaps and how do they bridge those gaps for anything that they find. And that again, is consistent in terms of approach. In fact, for a global gender plus erg, the genesis of our parental leave policy came from there, right? They were looking at how we could do something in Europe. And actually the question was asked, why Europe? Why not the whole world? So we tested and we worked through it. We got the right engagement and we launched our very first global 40 weeks parental leave. Regardless of your family makeup from day one, day one of joining Sanofi, you're eligible, right? In any country in the world. And you know, and we learn from that. So, for example, because I treat everything as a business project, I think about the KPIs and how do you know whether you've been successful? Because there's a little point having a policy that nobody uses. So we measure how many people take parental leave and you know, we have a quarterly dashboard and we make it quite visible. One of the things that we learned was that even though men could take the full 40 weeks, they weren't right. So the question then becomes, why aren't they taking the full 14 weeks? So, you know, we then deep dive and try and help with awareness and education and reassurance. And some of the feedback was, well, you know, I might miss opportunities for projects, I might not get promoted, I'm not going to FaceTime, I'm too much out the office or miss key things. And you know, and that was an aha moment for many when, when you realize. But women have no choice if they're going, they go for three, four, five months on maternity leave. So all we're doing is making sure that everyone has equal chance. And, you know, you've got to be equally assured that you're not going to miss out on the opportunities of projects and promotions, et cetera, just like women won't. Right? So that storytelling really helps. And having people share their experiences of being there for the first 40 weeks of their of their child. Right. Makes a huge difference. Accessibility, another big one that we'll be launching later this year. We've been working for the past six months on a global accessibility approach, both digital and physical. And the reason for that is that we have to ensure that we can't just talk about being an inclusive employee. We have to show it. What does accessibility look and feel like in Sanofi, from the workplace to the software that you use? So we've got clarity on that. We've got engagement from the business. Our chief digital officer is fully supportive and involved, as is our chief people officer, our head of real estate. So we're bringing people together to make these things happen. Right. So the pragmatist in me is always thinking about how do we land this? What impact is it going to make on individuals lives? Right? How are we going to get the very best talent that we possibly can reach out to? Because they can see that we are an inclusive organization. Another great experience that we launched was onboarding. So we had this whole notion of when you join a company in any country, you got your induction and it's like six to seven hours worth of. When I joined Zoom back for day two, I'm like, good God. You know, seven hours of Zoom of all things. Healthcare was a bit too much for my small brain. But you know, the feedback we were getting. We need to really think about this in a very different way. And you know, one organization's innovation is another organization's business as usual. Look outside of your industry. So you know, we worked and co created a virtual onboarding program so that you know, the minute you sign up to join Sanofi, you'll get a download to an app and that will take you through a virtual journey wherever you are in the world. So everybody who joins has the same understanding. On day one, you can order your laptop, your phone, you'll know what your leadership looks like, you'll know what the strategy is about, what our behaviors are expected, etc. Etc. So everybody in the whole world has that same experience and then you have to stop the inductions, right? You're not looking to double up, you're trying to optimize the experience. And that is a change management effort. But again, it's a global standard that we.