We're Gonna Need Cake with Valerie Garcia | LeadingLane Podcast | Episode 46

Yeah, I kind of got into that, that cycle of, yes, crush it, show up, grind, put a smile on your face, fake it till you make it. And I kind of did about two decades of that in the corporate space. And you're right, you know, Those sort of 10x ideas, those, those, you know, work hard things, I don't think they're all bad, but I do think they tend to lead us down the path of if you're going to be a leader, if you're going to show up, you know, you really just have to have this giant wall between who you are as a person and how you feel and the work that you do.

Welcome to the Leading Lane podcast for Real Estate Pros by Real Estate Pros, with your hosts, Ashley Frederick and Stephen Burch. If you're looking for an honest, authentic, and raw perspective, you found it.

Welcome everyone, to the Leading Lane podcast. We are excited to have our friend Valerie Garcia as a guest on our podcast today. I met Valerie, I think it was maybe three years ago at a train the trainer session in St. Louis. I think Stephen was maybe a little bit before that. And I've had the chance to follow Valerie. She's a fantastic human and she recently wrote an amazing book that we're going to talk about today. I've now read it twice. So excited to talk about that and some other things. So, Valerie, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself?

Well, thanks for having me. I'm excited to hang out with you guys for a little while today. Yes. I'm a public speaker. I'm a storyteller. I'm an author. I have been in the sales and marketing space for over 25 years and I am, I'm passionate about helping people tell their stories in different ways, whether it's for their business or just for their lives.

So, yeah, yeah, I'm super stoked to have you. So thank you for, for being here. I know I have a ton of questions that I want to ask you, but before we get to my questions, I too have read your book now, twice I've read it, you know, like the old school paperback way and then also listening to you. And I, I love hearing your voice when, you know, telling your, your story. I could just hear the little fun little jokes that you crack in there and whatnot. So I, I really enjoyed listening to it as well. But let's go into this wonderful book. What is the title? Give us a rundown. Share with amazing people out there what you are sharing with the world.

Yeah. So the book is called We're Gonna Need Cake. Celebrating Authentic leadership in a Messy World. And I really wrote this book because I do feel like we should celebrate the mess. I think we are all messy. Every one of us is in the mess every day. It's been really interesting hearing the reactions to the word mess, so we'll come back to that. But really this book came out of my own journey kind of through the mess of the last four or five years of my life and the lessons that I learned and how I, how I relay those lessons into my business and into my relationships and the world. And I just really felt like we needed a light hearted look at leadership through the lens of hey, it's not all hustle and crush it and fancy and all the things that we've maybe necessarily been told for decades in business that it doesn't have to be so black and white in terms of leadership and mass at work.

You know, when, when going through this. And I know you made a post a while back ago about, you know, this kind of cringy and I'm paraphrasing here, so correct me my terminology here, but this cringing words and whatnot that people are using grind and hustle harder and 10x and you know, when I first got into leadership and growing a team, I read the book 10x by Grant Cardone and it really resonated with me then because it was, was exactly what I was doing, being louder than everybody else, you know, going. But then there's also this ick to, to this 10x and you know, I, I think that he serves his purpose, don't get me wrong. But if I would have had your book when I first started in, in leadership and showing that I don't have to have this wall up constantly, this ball of concrete, that my life is perfect and showing vulnerability and emotions. And I want to get into some of this aspect of. You talk a lot about authenticity and being vulnerable and showing emotions. Emotions are not bad in the workplace. Can you elaborate a little bit more on that?

Yeah. So I kind of start out the book, you know, talking about how when I was growing up, you know, one of the things I heard from, from my dad mostly was always, you know, don't get so emotional, don't be so emotional. And I really kind of grew up with this idea like, oh, emotions like shove those down and you know, keep those away. And, and then I, I got into, you know, my first kind of real corporate job and it was a lot of that just like fake it till you make it Leave your emotions at the door, you know, leave that sort of personal mess or drama at the door. And yeah, I kind of got into that, that cycle of, yes, crush it, show up, grind, put a smile on your face, fake it till you make it. And I kind of did about two decades of that in the corporate space. And you're right. You know, Those sort of 10x ideas, those, those, you know, work hard things, I don't think they're all bad, but I do think they tend to lead us down the path of if you're going to be a leader, if you're going to show up, you know, you really just have to have this giant wall between who you are as a person and how you feel and the work that you do. And I kind of wanted to, I wanted to break some holes in that wall and say, hey, you know what, maybe we don't bleed our, our drama all over our work, but we are better at work, we are better leaders with our people when we bring our emotions to the table. Because that is what makes us human. Like, emotions are what make us amazing and thoughtful and curious and hopeful and scared and all the things that make.

Us real and relatable. Yes, right. Like, I mean, that's what we're in leadership, that's what we're trying to do, is we're leading people. But we have to be able to, to have that common connection and relate with the people that we're trying to lead in. The easiest, in my opinion, way to do that is through the emotion and vulnerability aspect of things and being open and honest with them. Right. Open mind and open heart constantly. So, no, I definitely love that.

Well, and I think, you know, you mentioned that it's really that we're not allowed to be successful poor leaders and a mess. And I think that that's not reality. And I think that that's what people see is they only see successes. Right. They only see leadership. And they then try to attain that and figure out that that's not reality. And we've kind of misled everyone by thinking that we are perfect when that's what we're trying to say. But in all reality, we're struggling behind the scenes to make it work. Where if we're just more open with everyone. Right. You kind of talk about, like when you ask for help, a lot of things can happen positively as well.

Yeah, yeah.

So, so I, and correct me if I'm wrong, like your. It appears that your target audience when you wrote this book is primarily to the female world. Right. The Female, powerful women. And there's nothing wrong with that whatsoever. Right.

But I think it's funny that you say that, because my publisher and I had this argument for months. I was like, this is not a book for women. And they were like, oh, you know, it really is kind of. And I was like, look, just because I'm a woman doesn't mean this is a book for women.

And.

And it's so funny because I would say that the most emotional, vulnerable.

You.

Know, kind of passionate responses to this book have been from men. Well, you know, I would say probably predominantly women have bought the book. The biggest responses in terms of emotion or just thoughtfulness have been from men. And so, yeah, I think it's funny that it's this idea of like, oh, women are emotional. But there have been so many men that have reached out to me and gone, gosh, I wish that I had somebody had told me this years ago that I have been doing this and I've been sort of shoving my emotions down, and I don't feel like I can be vulnerable. And I don't know where that idea came from. So, yeah, I think while there is so much of that perspective for women, it's true for men, too.

And I agree. And that's exactly where I was going to go is, you know, I was telling Ashley when reading this, there's so many different things that resonated with me, and then not only just on the emotion side of things, because I think as males as well, like, we're always told, you know, you're not allowed to cry, you're not allowed to do this, you're not allowed to show your emotion. That's, you know, stop acting like a girl. You know, those types of things that are constantly thrown at us. But for me, it resonated in a manner that there's different perspectives that you shared that I did not even think about from a woman's perspective whatsoever. You know, the. The Olympics, you know, being able to. To stick the. The landing. Right. And I know that was something like, oh, my gosh, I would have never put that connection together. So I think that this book should be shared with men and women. And being able to have everybody be able to read this and understand it and from different perspectives, but also understand that when. When we talk about emotions, it's not just because you're a woman. It's not just because you're a man. Right. This is. As a human being, across the board and in leadership, we are leading all types of different people from all types of different backgrounds. So we should not categorize just because motion, it's directly related to a woman.

Yeah, yeah.

So, Ashley, you. You. When you were talking about this book, you and I this week, the stepping back aspect of things, sometimes that you have to step back a little bit to be able to move forward. Let's talk about that a little bit. What are our thoughts on that?

Yeah, I mean, I'd love Valerie to kind of give the example of what she used. I mean, we don't want to give away the whole book, but I think it's important, you know, even I think, you know, with. Not to talk politics, but how some people might feel right about the state of the country. And in general, like, sometimes people have to take a step back in whatever realm that might be, but we all want to move forward and, you know, creating equals, if you will. I think when you talk about the Olympics, as far as a male landing and a female landing, which I never knew. So if you want to share that.

Yeah, it's the craziest thing. When I learned this, I was just like, well, first of all, I was like, are you kidding me? Yeah. I mean, in the book, I talk about Mary Lou Retton and, you know, watching the Olympics as a child and really learning that idea of sticking the landing. So, you know, after you complete a floor exercise or, you know, anything in gymnastics, you sort of stick the landing. And in the official gymnastics rules, there are two rules, one for men and one for women. When men land at the end of their performance, they. They have to, you know, basically plant their feet and are not allowed to move their feet as they land. But women are allowed to take one step back without deduction. And when I first heard this, I was like, what? Like, like, we can't. Like, we're not as. You know, like, I went to all those places of, like, oh, you know, I got very defensive, like, oh, women get that sort of, like, handicap because we can't. But the more I thought about it, the more I realized, like, I'm actually kind of more angry for the men. Like, women are allowed to take a step back without deduction, but men aren't. And, like, in leadership, when we start thinking about when things don't go right or when we don't exactly perform perfectly or when we don't stick the landing and look perfect for everyone, you know, why are there. Why isn't everyone allowed to take a step back without deduction? That should be. That should be the standard. Everybody, you know, take a step back without deduction, realizing that sometimes we have to do that in order to move forward.

I think it's a beautiful analogy. Shitty rule. Beautiful analogy, right. And I think that's with everything because we are programmed. And in your book, you talk a lot about how some of these are unwritten rules that, you know, who's really telling us that we have to work 80 to 100, a hundred hours a week? You know, these are things that we tell ourselves because we have to constantly grind and go, go, go. But this unwritten rule has now put us to where it's completely unacceptable to even slow down a little bit. And I honestly think when you slow down in business and in life, that's where the inspiration comes from, that's where the creativity comes from. And really, that's when I think you speed up really quickly thereafter because you have that opportunity to. To be able to slow down and reflect. So I think it's a great way to explain that. It's not a bad way to be able to do it. But also it's this uncertainty and rule that we are putting on ourselves, while also there's outside influences that are putting these rules onto us as well and limiting us.

So, yeah, yeah.

In your book, you also shared. And let me give you a little bit background here. Like, Ashley and I always talk about these old, rich white men and we, you know, economic development. We're. We're in small rural America, towns, very similar. And we always talk about these old, rich white men that never want to change. You know, obviously I am a male, but, you know, as a female walking into all of these things as well. Like, they definitely don't like that. They definitely don't like a gay man walking in and trying to say something too. So it's. It's ironic that, you know, this is kind of a common theme that we're seeing more and more. Maybe I'm just being more open to this and seeing this is happening a lot of places. But you shared about how there was an opportunity that you were going to be doing your presentation to talk on stage, and you made a comment to the. The company that you were working for is going to hire you. About everybody on the roster are white men.

Yeah.

Can you talk about that and what you put in the book? And I have a couple of questions for you to follow up.

Yeah, so I think that was one of the stories that I was particularly kind of. I mean, I was a little scared to put that in the book as a speaker, but it, you know, it happens a lot where I'll, you Know, in this case, the story I shared in the book, I had signed a contract. I had not. They, you know, they were just building the agenda, the roster of speakers. And when the agenda came out, you know, it was a vast array of. First of all, no one on the roster was below 40. Everyone was white. Everyone was older. It absolutely did not reflect the audience. The audience was there. It was an event, particularly around recruiting. And so when I think of recruiting, I'm thinking we're not all just hiring in a mirror, hopefully, that we. We are looking for diversity of thought and experience and ideas. And the stage did not reflect the audience. And so I went back to the, you know, the client, and I said, hey, you know, this really doesn't reflect the audience. Is, you know, is the content reflecting the audience? Because the speakers are definitely not. And immediately my contract was canceled. I was. I was pulled off of, you know, the event. And, you know, I learned a lot in that event, in that experience, and now I approach it very differently. So I. Instead of saying, hey, this doesn't reflect the audience, I say, hey, I would love to suggest to you a couple of people that are, you know, I think would, you know, really add some depth to this, to this roster. But, yeah, I think. I think it's a. You know, I don't. I know. I love that you say old, rich, white men. I usually say stale, male and pale.

Probably a little bit more politically correct.

You know, I don't think it's, you know, and I know there are probably men that are listening to this that have immediately gone, like, not, you know, like. But it doesn't matter what the group is, you know, there needs to be. I feel there always should be diversity of thought, experience, ideas, opinions, you know, backgrounds, because it makes it richer, more nuanced, more creative. You know, there. You literally cannot get to breakthrough without challenge. It's basic psychology. If we are always in comfort, we are never growing. And so if we are building environments for ourselves through events or education or speakers or leadership teams or whatever, where we are always in comfort because we are never challenged on our opinions, our thoughts, we are never growing. And so, yeah, that was definitely one of those experiences where I learned, rather than say, hey, we have a potential challenge, here is. Here are some solutions. But, you know, it's. It's an ongoing battle.

Did you. Did you find. I mean, I hear, like, some of the. Like, you've learned from that opportunity and. But did you feel empowered, though, that, like, you're standing up for people that maybe don't Have a voice? Did you feel empowered? And how does that move forward to. You know, these are sometimes uncomfortable conversations to be had with people. So how do you continue to have those conversations, even though that, yeah, you know, you have a little bit of hesitation, but we have to continue and be the leader in the room?

Yeah. You know, I think that I've really. I think it's definitely changed the work that I do with leaders around the idea of change in that, you know, really getting us comfortable with discomfort, comfortable with being challenged, comfortable with hearing different points of view, I think has become a bigger focus for me. You know, I think a lot of people are like, hey, I'm just going to surround myself with people who say the things that I love to hear, because then I'm going to clap and they're going to get a standing ovation. And I think we do that a lot in, you know, at bigger events, we tend to book the same speakers because people love them. But I guess my question always is, when you're booking the person that everyone loves, is that person at any point saying to the audience what they don't want to hear but need to? You know, and that's definitely been something that kind of has weighed on me a lot in the last couple years, is that, like, I really want it to be my. My job, my calling to say what you don't want to hear in a way that you need to hear it, but in a way that makes you feel like, thank you needed that. Because I think we surround ourselves a lot of times, intentionally or unintentionally, with echo chambers. You know, like, we can't control the algorithm anymore, and we don't get uncomfortable around the topics that. That we struggle with in work or life.

Yeah, you know, we. My host and Amy and Ashley was here a part of this as well. A broker fast track retreat a couple weeks ago. And one of the conversations, and actually this came from Imran Pilates, which. This is how I met you. And so Imran was here, what, two years ago, and we had this conversation around race. And so then, you know, it's a beautiful conversation. It was extremely vulnerable. One of a couple of my agents, you know, shared their story about being in a. Being black in a rural America type of society. And so this year, that was something that I felt like was extremely important to still have that conversation. Obviously, I'm white. And so I had a conversation with my agent, Andrina. I said, hey, I think this is so important and I appreciate you sharing your story. And she's Been on our podcast and you know, we talk a lot, obviously in person as well. And I asked her if she was comfortable sharing that story again, but coming from me versus coming from Imran. And she was like, of course. So we pulled her chair up and we had a whole discussion about race. And this is in front of a group of people that didn't really know where the conversation was going to go, but very well could be uncomfortable for some of them. But I felt it was so important for her not to only share her story but, but for me to be able to make sure that this is a topic that we recognize that could potentially be happening in our own companies right now. And maybe we're blind to it and we need to be more open to it. We say we're diverse and we want diversity, but how do you really actually accomplish that if you truly don't have that roster of diversity? So I, I, that was very inspiring to hear that you stood up and you're correct. It doesn't matter if it's what room you are with or what group of people you're with, there's always different perspectives. So I applaud you for continuing to do that.

Thanks. I mean, you know, it's important.

Ashley.

Yeah. You know, the thing I was just going to say was you talk about male bosses, you know, and I think that looking back, I can relate to that a lot as far as things that were inappropriately said, you know me now 20 years later. Think back to like maybe probably should have called HR on some of those. Right. Um, and I think, you know, especially since reading your book, I've been more aware of it. And it's not necessarily like male bosses, but more so in my role, like board members, like, you know that you're on same thing. It tends to be the same type of population. And really when I started thinking about it too, there's even some females that are maybe older in age, might have been, you know, prior bosses that say really inappropriate things and nobody says anything. And I think that, you know, that is crushing to a board because I think it changes everyone's input. So I've been really trying to use my voice very delicately, but I just can't sit back anymore, right, and watch the inappropriate comments or the under the breath comments that more than likely are coming from males, but even the females. And it is amazing. Once I just think that once someone can see someone saying something, it just gives this window for someone else to be like, yeah, you're actually right. I kind of was thinking that So I think if we can, like, all just remember that there's probably someone else that's feeling the same exact way that we're feeling, and if we can just kind of crack that door open for everyone to just be like, you know, this probably isn't appropriate, or we shouldn't be talking like this, or, you know, those types of things.

Yeah, gosh, it's so important. There's a group that's using my book for their book club right now, and so I joined a couple of their calls. And for those that are listening to this and haven't read the book, sort of divided it into chapters by emotion. So, you know, there's curiosity and bravery, but there's also a chapter on anger. And it's. It's so interesting how people have kind of gravitated to that chapter. And especially women saying, oh, like, and I, and I talk about that in the book of, like, oh, we can't be angry. You know, that the angry woman, you know, it's a, it's a whole stereotype. But anger is critical in terms of, you know, solving conflict. Anger is critical in terms of moving forward. We, we actually can't solve problems if we don't get angry enough about them to do something. And, you know, how often do we kind of avoid anger? Can't get angry. And I want to show, you know, I don't want to be angry. I don't, I don't want to get. But it's so critical for us to have that anger towards the things we should be angry towards. You know, you should be angry when somebody speaks to you in a way that is absolutely not professional or acceptable. We should be like, oh, anger is my, my body's warning signal to be like, nope, boundary. Right. Anger is a boundary setting. Emotion and boundaries are so important in leadership. So, yeah, I love that that chapter is resonating because that was one of the hardest chapters to write because I kept thinking, no, no, no, like, we can't be angry. And then I'm like, I'm actually angry about saying we can't be angry. And yeah, it was a breakthrough chapter for sure for me too.

And I love how you, you put in there in position that then you grieve. Right. The being able to. I think it. And I'm paraphrasing here, the unfolding, the grieving process. And it's never just a, okay, you're done emotion. This is a forever type of emotion that you're going to be experiencing. And for me, you know, I didn't Realize until I read your book, of the emotion grief, and it was. I had a restaurant that failed, right? And then, you know, I was angry. And there's things that now still kind of spark, you know, this. This anger and. But it's this grief that I am going through, but it's also this experience now that I can turn around and reflect and know that that's where I don't want to go and identify the things that I did do wrong and that I could do better and even identify the things out of that failure that I did extremely well. So realizing that that's not just because of that one situation, I can't package that all up and put a bow of just anger on it forever. This is something that I can pull out on multiple different aspects, and it's something that I'm going to be able to experience for the rest of my life. And just at these. And these. These times that we have no clue when this emotion is going to come through and hit us. So that. That really resonated with me. And I think that these negative fear grieving, they're negative, but really they don't. They're not negative. They're. They're the process they're going through and to get you through your journey and. And I think that's beautifully written. Explain how you go through that and you're never truly out of that spiral. It's. It's always a constant mess at one point or another. Just different unchartered territories.

Yeah. Yeah. So true.

Ashley, what questions do you have?

I have a couple other. I have three specifically that I wrote down that I wanted to talk about. One of the things I wrote down was, you're not for everyone. We'll leave some people behind as we grow. And it just really resonated with me because Stephen and I talk about that a lot, and I think that, you know, you obviously talk about it. I think with leadership, when you change your circles, there is this struggle of wanting to, you know, be connected to the past and your people. But in all reality, I kind of refer to it as the crab bucket, right? Where, like, people are just pulling you back down. So can you talk to us a little bit about just what that's meant for you as far as moving forward and realizing the past is the past for some of those people?

Gosh, yes. Like, this has been a hard one for me. I have been a people pleaser my whole life. I'm the oldest daughter. I have been this person that's always been like, I just want to make everybody happy. I just want to take care of everybody. And when I got into corporate training and public speaking, I tell the story in the book how there's always that one person right in the room that's, like, sitting there with their arms crossed, like, you know, and you can just see it on their face that they're like, nope, I'm not buying any of this. And, you know, early on in my career, I used to just. I used to just turn cartwheels to try and make that person happy. You know, I would Forget the other 99 people in the room, and I would put all of my focus on that one person. Just like, gosh, if I can win them over, I've done my job. And then I think I tell the story in the book about how one day I got the, you know, reviews back from a group, and they, you know, somebody had said, oh, you know, like, she spent all of her time trying to convince that one person that was never going to get it at the expense of everyone else. And I just remember that being like, whoa. That was one of those moments where I was like, oh. And I really had to sit with that and realize, yes, I was doing that. You know, I was like, just, if I can win over the one hater, I win. But no, I mean, I was actually failing everyone else. And, you know, it was this lesson of, I'm not for everyone. And in fact, it's exhausting to try and be for everyone. And, you know, I would much rather be all in with a few people who absolutely, you know, one of the things I always say is, like, you. Your goal is not to be for everyone. Your goal is to be the right fitness, the absolute right fit for. For a few. And I think in leadership, we can. Or just, you know, work or our lives, we can focus so much on just, like, I don't want to make anybody unhappy. I don't want anyone to hate me. And, oh, my gosh, am I feeling that today? Because I've said a few things on social media lately about my disappointment in the way things have gone the last few days, or, you know, my views on how humans should be treating each other. And I've had some people, you know, that have really come back and gone, like, oh, hard line for me. And I'm like, bye. Okay, I'm never going to win you over. And also, I'm not gonna twist myself inside out and pretend to be somebody different to make you love me, and it's okay. You know, I think as leaders, you know, we we have to remember, like, while we're leading everyone, we can't try and change the rules or even our personalities for that one person that's always going to be unhappy.

Right. I think, you know, you mentioned leaders, which leads me to my next point. I recently sent your book to someone who is not, quote unquote, boss in her company. But I've tried to have the discussions of her with her about just being a leader, you know, so you spend some time in there about you don't necessarily have to be a boss to be a leader. And I think that that's really important for people to maybe sit back and kind of just soak in that. Sure, you might not be a boss, but if you can help with morale or, you know, do the other things still say the right thing? It doesn't mean you're the boss, but you can still be a leader of. Of, you know, your friend circle or your company or whatever that might be.

Yeah, yeah. So true. I think we all have that responsibility to lead in whatever circles we're in. I think we have, you know, a responsibility to stand up for what we think is right. And it's so true. I mean, we've all had bosses that were not leaders, and we've all had leaders in our lives that were not our boss. And it's a beautiful thing when it happens to be both. But, yeah, and I've had both as well. And I think it's that reminder to all of us that, you know, I was on a really contentious board. Speaking of boards, Ashley, I was on a really contentious board recently. And, you know, it was like, you had moments where you're like, okay, I can lead this conversation where I genuinely feel it needs to go, or, you know, I can try and bully people into it, which was some people's, you know, chosen path. But you're, you know, leaders. Leaders are always going to get paid more than followers. Leaders are always going to be the ones who people look to. And you don't have to be a boss to do that.

I love that. And one little thing I took out of your book, so a lot of people know that I'm fairly focused in the morning because I just want to get shit done. So I, you know, beamed my office. And this goes back to, like, many, many years ago. One of my reviews was that I didn't say good morning to people.

Oh, I know where you're going with this one.

Yeah, but.

Right.

And it's just so funny how. How we all interpret that differently. Right. So, like, for Me, I just was like, yep, it's first thing in the morning. I got stuff to do. I'm gonna go get my stuff and done and whatnot. And, you know, I've tried to work on that over the years, and then sometimes I think I just forget because, again, my mind's gone 100 miles an hour. But when you mentioned it in your book about, you know, just how. How open people were with that boss, that what could he do better? And it was the simple fact of saying good morning or having a little bit better of a conversation about them of how things are going. And I think that that's like one really big takeaway from the book that I hope that other people would find is amazing. What that will do for morale is just saying good morning or asking how their. Their weekend was. And I just think about how many times that's come up in my past that people say that I don't engage them enough. So it is sometimes personality, right? But it is being aware of how it could be received by others, even though just like in the book was never his intention, you know, So I. I've really worked on that too, over the last two months of saying good morning and asking how, you know, what. What their plans are for the weekend. And it is funny just how it leads to other conversations and other funny things happen. Just because you happen to take that extra 30 seconds.

Yeah, yeah, I. I love that. That resonated. I remember that event so clearly. And, you know, ultimately it was. It wasn't even the good morning. It was the fact that, you know, that boss really took the time to listen to the feedback and took action on it. But, yeah, I think, you know, we have so many moments like that that sometimes we don't realize what we're doing. Like, we just. We think, oh, I'm just doing the thing. Right. It's kind of a beautiful thing to do, that self reflection. You know, I have those moments too.

So I'm going to kind of go maybe a little bit of a different direction. You've been sharing a lot on Facebook, you know, your grandmother and things about, you know, what's going on in life. And I think that. And I can relate with this, and I think it's probably why it's so fresh in my mind because my grandmother, too, is going through some health stuff right now, and it's. It's scary. Right? And so my. My team this week, we're rolling out raise. We're. We're now going to Skyslope from Docusign transaction Rooms, our forms have been a hot mess. You know, NAR lawsuit as a whole is a shit show. Right? Like all of these things that are happening and we have no control. Well, what, what happened is we were asking for feedback about race specifically. Fantastic app. Love it. But there were some negative things that were coming through and we asked our agents to, to email us. Well, when we were getting these emails, my mother, my grandmother was getting admitted into the hospital and I was eating, reading these, this feedback and I immediately got so defensive and like, really, I, I opened up the next day at our actual sales meeting and I was like, look, I was reading these. I'm taking them personally, I should not be. But let me kind of share what's going on. Gave the, you know, synopsis and I said, I want to share what I felt, but I also know that what I felt was not correct and I want to figure out the solution and understand where you guys are coming from versus just attacking and reacting to this. And they didn't know about my grandmother at the time yet. But, you know, I just shared that basically I wanted to tell everybody to fuck off. I wanted to like leave. I didn't care what their opinion was, you're doing it. But really, some of these were valid things. So my point of this is that I think it's important that we do share what is going on in life. We don't need to share everything that is going on. I get that. But people need to understand when we are getting these feedback and this is good, goes both ways, that we don't know what that other person is actually going through. And we are making decisions as leaders constantly and we do need to slow ourselves down and not react. But once I then later on shared about my grandmother, things changed drastically. People, you know, were reaching out, they were caring. And I said, I just want you guys to know that this is kind of why my reaction was. The way that it was is because this is what I was going through. But I wanted to share and be open and vulnerable with you about my feelings and so that I did not make a wrong choice or react and make you feel any sort of way, because that's not fair for take my feeling and deflect it and throw it to you. So can you share a little bit about how, you know. Yes, it's okay to share these things, but you don't have to share everything in life.

Yeah. Oh, so much to unpack there, Stephen. Yeah, you know, I, I talk about this in the book, but I, you know, I go back years ago, and I was deeply struggling with depression. I, you know, I was having. I'll just be honest, like, I didn't have a single day where I didn't think about dying for probably two years. And that, you know, when you get into those mind habits, when you go down the negative path every day, and it becomes a path that your brain starts taking without you even knowing it when you get into that. And I see that happen with people in their subconscious with negativity, right? Oh, the market's terrible. You tell yourself that enough, and guess what? It is for you. And so I was in this really dark place of, like, you know, like, everything is really hard, and that is kind of where I lived. And. And yet, you know, I was on the Internet every day posting happy memes and positivity and things are great. And look at this. And I'm on stage in another city, and someone I didn't know very well asked me to lunch, and we went and we sat down, and she said to me, you know, she started to cry, and she said, you know, my. My marriage is falling apart, my business is struggling. All of these terrible things are happening in my life. And you have seemed to, you know, you seem to have the secret to keeping it all together. And I just kind of want to know what that is. And I just have that, you know, moment where it's like the world stopped. And I just remember looking at her and thinking, also, my marriage is falling apart, and I'm in depression, and I'm. You know, I had all the same things, and yet I was just really, you know, making it look real good on the outside. And I, you know, I kind of came away from that conversation making a decision to do the hard things in the daylight and tell the truth. And. And it's become a habit for the last seven years that I have made an extreme effort to be real and human and tell the truth and do the hard things in the daylight. And. And one thing that I've learned from that is that when I give myself permission to do that, it gives everyone around me permission to do that. So, you know, I think. I think there is also. There is a challenge of it becoming performative. You know, I'm always very careful about that because you can go the other way. It can be like, oh, look how things are hard, just like you say, oh, look how things are beautiful, you know, and. And I think it's really important to. To ask yourself all the time, am I telling the truth? And it doesn't have to be the whole Truth. Like you said, I don't need to pour, you know, every detail of everything out onto the people around me, but I need to be real and truthful enough that people, A, understand where I'm coming from, but, B, have the permission to do that around me as well. You know, I want the people that I work with to say, yeah, look, you know what? I need to cancel our Zoom today because, like, the kid is home from school puking, and I. I got you. Like, I get it, you know, Or I need the. The ability to say to my clients, like I did twice this week, I need to cancel a Zoom because I need to be somewhere else. And when we do that, like, we are. We are better humans, and everyone around us are better humans. Um, and this is probably the one pushback that I've gotten from people about this book is I just don't want to be messy around people. I don't want my people to be messy around me. Who wants messy people? And I'm like, I mean, we're all messy. You're just either compressing it down and suffering the consequences, or you're forcing the people around you to do the same thing. You know, I love what Brene Brown says, is that we should always speak from the. We should always speak from the scar, not the wound. Like, you know, if you were in that moment, like, when I was in that moment when I was laying on the kitchen floor thinking, you know, it would be just really easy to just be done. I'm not sharing that moment in that moment, but when I've gotten to the point where that is a scar and no longer a wound, I want to have permission to tell people because I want people, when they are in that moment, to realize I need help or I'm not alone, or I need to speak about it when I'm ready. I think telling our stories is the price of admission for life. I think it gives people around us permission to do the same. And I really think, like, that is the cornerstone of leadership, is, like, when you get that scar, turn around and tell the story. Right. It's so important.

No, I love it. Yeah. I think it's beautiful. And I've learned because five years ago, me would have just bottled everything up and just would have just kept everything. And I probably was more so than the boss and dictator of, like, this is how it's going to be. And let me lay down the law to where, you know, now that I have learned to be able to share the stories and share the insights and allow people to Be able to see that I'm not perfect. And I'm here to lift people up, and I need people to lift me up, because I'm there to lift other people up too. I think it has transformed the way that our entire company and what I have I've been working in, and I'm still working to grow. And I think that the people now have more respect for me, and they have more of the. The stickiness, if you will. Well, I always get asked about culture. How do you develop this culture, and how do you do this? Like, you don't just have an easy button magic, you know, magically, overnight, you're gonna have culture because you want culture, and everything is great in here. And I actually really hate the word culture because it's something that you just can't, you know, sprinkle in. Like, you have to create it. And you are the creator of the culture because you're the leader. And the more that you can create the culture and pass this from one to another to other leaders inside of your own company, now everybody's being each other's cheerleaders, and everybody's being each other's support team. And that is the culture, I think, is how you truly build it. And it has to start with the vulnerability and making sure that people know that you are a human to create that connection.

Yeah. Two things about that. I've noticed that about you just from the outside watching over the last couple of years. Like, I've noticed, and it's been really beautiful to watch.

Well, thank you.

And I used to feel that way about the word culture, too, but I did a deep dive into the definition of culture. And I'll tell you the secret that kind of changed it for me is thinking of culture as a petri dish. Like, do you remember in high school when we would, like, do the thing where you'd put in a dish and it would grow? So that's. That is culture. Right? And culture, as a definition, is creating conditions suitable for growth. And I loved that. When I learned that, I was like, oh, no more. Is it this just, like, how we look or how it's. Am I creating conditions suitable for growth? I mean, it's kind of a beautiful way to look at it, honestly.

And thank you for that challenge and chin check there, because, you know, I think that, you know, I immediately go to. When you said petri dish dish. Like, I'm thinking of this, like, mold that's growing and everything else. And it very well could be the mold, but it also can be the Positive. Is it just mine? Was it me? Am I the problem? Can you. Can you hear me, Ashley? Do you want me to leave and come back in?

I can.

I know you guys just stopped.

Can you hear me?

Is Valerie there?

Can you see me?

I see the box.

I'm here. Do I leave?

Is there any, like, an error or anything on your side? Ashley?

Everything just froze.

Hell.

Great conversation.

She's amazing. I love her. There you are.

You guys. You just disappeared on me. I was still there.

I don't know. Said toodaloo, I guess.

Are we recording, Brandon?

Yeah.

Okay, we're good.

The last thing that I heard was, Stephen, you were talking about what a petri dish meant to you.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Last thing I heard was when you say petri dish, and then you were gone.

So I'll try to pick up from there. So where was I going? I have no clue. So when I hear you saying petri dish, like, my mind automatically went to, like, growing mold. Right. And like a negative thing. And I think of, you know, when you put moldy fruit next to people or, excuse me, next to other fruit, like, then the mold is going to, you know, go out. It's. But it's. It's so great because the mind shift change there, it doesn't need to be mold. It doesn't mean negative. It could be the positive. And now how that also passes through from one person to the other as well. So I love that chin checking challenge from you. Thank you for putting that in perspective for me.

Yeah.

So, yeah, I mean, what we plant grows, right?

That's right. I love that. Let's kind of shift gears here. I don't know if you remember this conversation, Valerie, but I think we were in Denver. I could be wrong. We were somewhere. We'll go with that in Chicago.

If you're going where I'm going. Chicago, it doesn't matter.

You've been in Chicago because you. You spoke on. On stage, and then you and I kind of chatted a little bit, and then we. We met at a bar. I was at a bar. And I don't know if I messaged you. You messaged me. Whatever else. And I don't remember exactly what the conversations were. I do remember I was drinking a dirty martini with Grey Goose and blue cheese olives, though. And I said, you know, I. I envy. And thank you for sharing your story. Like, I really connected with you, and I wish that I could do that. And you shared some insight of what you need to be able to do or what I should do. And, you know, I. I remember back then I was like, I can never be able to do this. But I want to thank you for taking the time to have that conversation and share your story and. And encourage to share my story, because I'm now doing that as well. So, as you said, you've been watching me. I've been a huge cheerleader of yours and advocate and love watching everything that you do. And over these years, there's so many different things that you have done and posted and spoke about and wrote about that really have inspired me to continue on and share my story. So thank you for everything that you do. But do you remember that conversation?

I do remember that conversation. And it's so funny. I have a lot of those conversations where people come up and go, I wish I could do that. And I always say you can. Just. You just have to start. You have to just start speaking. I think a lot of people think there's some, you know, secret society or permission slip that has to be signed, but it's not true. Like, you just start telling your story. And I'm so proud of you for running with that. And it's been fun to watch because so many people say that and then never do anything about it or never do anything with it. And, you know, the world needs more. The world needs more, Stevens. The world needs more people, you know, that will tell a real human story.

That. And, you know, this. This just echoes what we have been talking about, too, as far as the people that you're surrounding yourself around. Right. You know, because of Imran, I now have the pleasure of knowing Valerie because of Imran. It led me to another connection with, you know, Rebecca Mountain, which then led me to Ashley and these people that you constantly elevate yourself with and aspire to be and what to learn from and, you know, are open to challenges. And you have to be open to challenges as well from them that have nothing but love and want you to do great. You know, these people that we leave behind, it's not that we're no longer, you know, they're not. Not that they're no longer a part of our lives. They just no longer. I don't want to say that they don't serve the same type of purpose. We're just advancing on and we're going on to the next chapter of our own lives. And sometimes we do have to leave some of these people to. To continue. It's not that the connection didn't serve its purpose, did not mean that we didn't learn from them. We don't love them. It just means that we're, we're looking to go a different direction. So for somebody that is trying to get out there and speak more and, you know, do these types of things, you've already done this. How do people get on stages? How do they, you know, write a book? And I kind of have a feeling of what you're going to say, but what advice would you give somebody like me and other people that are out there trying to share their story?

Yeah, great questions. Um, you know, I always tell people getting on stage is actually the easy part. Um, you know, I could make a couple calls today and get anybody on a stage. It's. It's what you're going to say when you get there. You know, I think the more important thing is, you know, people say, oh, I'd love to be a speaker. And, you know, they kind of see that, like, glamorous looking outside of it, like, oh, you're jetting off to another city, when in reality it's a lot of airports and Radissons. It's. And whatever. But, you know, they go, oh, if, you know, I would love to speak. And I think, great. What do you want to say? What do you really think the world needs to hear? And how do you uniquely want to tell that story? And, you know, what do you want the result to be? And when I, When I run into somebody that goes, oh, I'd really love to be a speaker, and I ask those questions, when people have a response immediately, like, well, you know, I would love to tell them this and how I learned this, and I want them to go away, away feeling I'm like, yeah, right. Like you're, you're halfway there. It's the people that say, oh, I'd love to speak, or I'd love to write a book. And I go, about what? Like, what do you want to say? And they're like, oh, I don't know. That's the bigger question. That's always the bigger question. And so, you know, my best advice always is, what do you want to say? What do you want the result of that story to be? What do you want the lesson to be? And how do you want to change the person who's hearing it? And when you can answer that, you just start talking. You know, you just start writing a blog, you just start a sub stack, you start making a video, and you start telling people that that's what you want to do. And you'd be surprised how many people will make it happen with you. Not for you, but with you. You know, when I finally made the decision I was going to write a book, I mean, I got on Facebook and I said, I'm writing a book. Well, guess what? You know, I hadn't started it at that point, but now every single person I talked to, what they said was, how's the book coming? So, accountability. And then I was writing a book. You know, I always tell people, like, if you know what you want to say and you know what the result you want, you know, to be, start doing it.

So we both. We both talk about writing books, Stephen and I quite often. Um, and Steven's pushed me on it a little bit more as of recent. So after our last trip, I. I actually just started writing down like one. Like, it's literally like one word. Like something that happened that would resonate and write. My goal is to empower people with stories and of triumph and whatnot. I think what I struggle with is, like, how to put it all together, like, how that makes sense. Or is that where an editor comes in and how do you find editors? Like, how does it come so that it looks, like, fantastic, like, your book made complete sense from beginning to end. I feel like mine is a scattered diagram.

Oh, I. I could show you my first diagram. It's giant sticky notes with things everywhere. You know, Ali Fallon is an author. She has a beautiful process that really helped me. She sits down and she actually does book mapping as her job with people. But her process is actually so interesting. She starts with a million sticky notes and either a big blank wall or a floor. She actually prefers a floor. And she has you start writing every story you can think of, or every point, every word, every little moment that you think would fit well, and writing them on your sticky notes. And then she starts laying them out on the floor. And so she starts moving them into chapters. You know, this story goes to this chapter and after a while, you know, like, she works with someone for maybe two or three days, they'll map out an entire book on the floor. And I've. I used that process too. You know, I started sitting down and going, I have this little story and I want to share that. And I have this point and I have this quote and I have this. This memory, and I have this thing. And I started just, you know, kind of plopping in them into, like, sections. And after a while, you know, it started making sense. And then I wrote a book proposal. So typically, if you are not self publishing, you're going to need a book proposal and a book Proposal is essentially just kind of a pitch, a resume for the book. This is what it is, this is who it's for. This is what I want it to achieve. And then here's the layout of the table of contents and some of the pieces that are going to go in there. And then here's a sample chapter or an introduction. And that's really where I got a book coach involved. So I worked with a publisher and they set me up with a book coach. And she essentially walked me through that whole process of putting a proposal together. And once you have a good 30 page proposal for a book, your ideas start to get real clear. And I will tell you my original idea for my book. My book coach came back and said, yeah, these two chapters are the whole book. And I was like, no, I've got like 17 ideas here. And she's like, yeah, but these two chapters, whole book. And that's where editors are really helpful because I think as humans we tend to be like, well, I got to put it all in. Well, all ideas do not make the first book. And when you're done, you tend to find, oh, gosh, I could write many more books with all the things that didn't make it into the first book. So start with as much as you have. And then what a great editor will help you do is sort of start pulling pieces out and saying, this is beautiful, but it doesn't fit or it detracts from the message. So, yeah, a great, a great book coach or editor will really help you. But the first step is just, just throw it all in there and start coming up with all the things that you know you want to say. And sometimes it's pulling pieces from like, things you've posted on social media or blogs you've written or notes you've written to other people. And it's going to look messy in the beginning. It's going to look messy for a good long time. That's okay.

Did you have like, like beta readers or like, once it was kind of through, like, did you give it out to people to critique or how did, how did you work through that?

Yeah, in the book world, they call those ARCs, advanced reader copies. And so there's a whole, there's a whole world for ARCs out there where there are people that are professional advanced reader copies so that like, they'll read it and tell you as a complete stranger. There are people that do that, that get paid to do it. I had a couple of people that I sort of floated it to and then I had eight People that I'd sort of hand picked that were really, really important to me and I thought also very objective, I guess. Like, and I. I asked them. I, you know, kind of asked them to read it and then give me some feedback. And yeah, that was scary because, you know, at that point, you're asking people that you really care about to read your words and your thoughts. And. And then at some point you have to let it go and you have to realize there will be people that go, I gave it a two. You know, and then there are people that are like, I read it twice and I loved it. So, yeah, it's. It's an interesting. It's an interesting process, but I think everyone should do it. I think you learn a lot about yourself.

So how did you feel about the, like, the audible part? Because I know that some people, like, I'm like a full on audible. Like, I don't read books, like, because I always. It's like I'm driving or whatnot, right. And I know, like, Stephen is very opposite and likes to highlight in those types of things. So was. Was it automatic that you thought that you would do audible, or did it come during, like, you know, during the process or what were your thoughts around that?

No, my publisher basically told me I had to. I never listened. I'd never listened to an audible in my life. I didn't have audible.

I'm just so glad that, you know, I love that it's your voice, though, because I can't stand listening to audibles of like, so someone else reading someone else's book, like, I could feel like yourself through it. So I really appreciate that.

Well, so that was a question I asked about two years ago on Facebook when my. My publisher was like, all right, what are we doing about audible? And I was like, do I have to? And she was like, yes. And so then I. So I asked on Facebook, you know, what do you guys think about audio books? And I overwhelmingly, everyone's like, oh, I like it when the author reads their own book. So I was like, okay, I'm gonna do this. And I'd never listened to an audiobook before, and I didn't even know, like, there are, you know, some of, like, music and intros and voices and, you know, and so, funny story, I recorded the audiobook in my walk in closet. I. True story. I have this microphone that's just out of the picture here. I, you know, have this, like, small setup. I moved it all into my walking closet, set it up on my ironing board, brought my laptop in there. And the producer was on the other end of the line in a studio somewhere. I don't even know where. And, you know, and over the course of three weeks, we worked together. I never met him. It's just his voice and my voice. And we talked and. Yeah, and it was. It was a humbling experience because you're reading your own words, you're getting emotional or laughing. My cat meowed twice. We had to cut that out. Like, it was a whole thing.

I can totally relate.

It was very fancy ironing board in the closet, right?

But.

But it was actually. I really enjoyed it. It was fun. And when it was over, I was like, oh, I could read audiobooks for a living. Like, it was actually kind of fun. Literally. Your voice is great, but it was. It. There's so many people that have said, oh, I love listening to it because it's your voice. And. And so I highly recommend it. You know, it's. It's an interesting experience.

So looking. Looking back, now that you have went through this process, what would you be. What would you do differently?

Oh, really good experience. You know, I. I fought very hard for the title. The publisher wanted to change the title, and I fought for months. When I said, I really think this book is going to be called We're Going to Need Cake, my publisher said, don't get too attached to that. I was like, no, I really think that that's the title. Like, it needs to be me, and it needs to be a little cheeky. But also, I want it to be celebratory. And they were really worried about SEO and all the things that a publisher is paid to worry about. And so, you know, that's where the subtitle came from. So I don't know what I would do differently, but I am really glad. I kind of fought for the ideas that felt the most authentic to me there. You know, I wanted. I was very specific in a couple of thoughts or, you know, there were a couple of things that I was like, this really matters to me. And. And I'm really thankful, looking back, that I had fought for those things. I took three months off everything to really focus on writing a couple of the chapters, and I'm thankful I did that, too. While that was difficult and, you know, a financial sacrifice, it was really important. I don't know. I think. I think if I. I don't know about doing anything different, I'm excited about doing it again. I'm excited about writing another one.

Can we expect another one?

Yeah, I've already started an Outline for the second one. I think, I think what I've learned is that there's, you know, I know this is cheesy because it's a chapter in the book, but there is no way to do it wrong. You know, whether you do a hybrid publisher or traditional or you publish it yourself or whatever you end up doing, you know, putting your stories into the world, there's no way to do it wrong. So find the way that works the most, you know, the most authentically for you.

Obviously there's a, another book, but what's next from Valerie Garcia? What are we going to see?

I'm working on a few things. I'm outlining the next book. I'm working with some really exciting clients right now, really focusing on authenticity in terms of AI. I think that's been a really interesting topic with a lot of my clients. You know, a lot of people don't think they can believe anything now. And I work with a lot of higher education clients who are saying, you know, our students are coming in and they're just saying, you can't believe a word you hear anything you see on the Internet. And, and what does that mean for the future of, of leadership and authenticity and really every, every facet of our, of our planet? So I'm kind of excited about that. And yeah, I'm launching a fun camp for January and I got a few things up my sleeve.

Awesome. I love that. And then is that I see some camp stuff with Scott Tanya, is that correct? Is that.

I think she's put that on hold till next year. But yeah, she's been working on putting, she's been putting together like an in person summer camp, which is super fun. I've always wanted to do that. But yeah, I've been doing some virtual summer camps. And I mean, the dream is, you know, always someday I just want to bring everybody together and do some canoeing and some campfires and you know, it'll happen.

Well, let me know when that happens.

Yeah, we're down for that.

Let's, let's get us on the list. Okay, so. Perfect. Well, I, I really. Ashley, before I close up, do you have any other, other questions or anything that you want to make sure that.

We'Re super, super thankful for your input and really how meaningful the book has, has been for me personally and being able to share that with other people? I think, you know, your impact is wide.

It's huge. I can't say enough how much you've impacted my life, how much this book has impacted my life and thank you for being a beautiful human and thank you for being true and authentic to yourself and continuing to challenge others around you to share their story and lift others up. Because at the end of the day, I think that this world is in a world of hurt and a lot of negativity. And if you can be a little bit of that light to make somebody's day a little bit better, that's all we can do and continue to impact people's life. So thank you for taking the time today to be here with us and I'm sure we'll be asking you a lot of questions, being a part of your other programs that you're going to be doing. And as always, we're going to be the your hugest cheerleaders for you.

Oh, thank you. Well, I can't be. I can't wait to be an advanced reader for both of your books. Count me in.

Awesome. Thank you. Well, if anybody wanted to get a hold of you for anything of your services or booking for speaking or anything else, how would they get in contact with you?

Yep, super easy. My website is valerie garcia.com youm'll find all my socials on there. Um, yeah, it's easy to find.

Awesome. Well, thank you. And go out and make the world a beautiful place.

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