Core Protocols for Autoimmunity: Foundational Healing Strategies with Dr. Leland Stillman and Amy Arp

Welcome to Integrative Medicine with Dr. Leland Stillman, the podcast where we explore the best of East and West, old and new, conventional and unconventional, in search of answers to medicine's toughest cases and most difficult problems. This podcast is for informational purposes only. Diagnostics and therapeutics discussed on this podcast may or may not be right for you, so talk to a qualified practitioner before taking action based on what you learn here. If you'd like to become a patient at my practice, go to stillmanmd.com to schedule a complimentary discovery call. Thank you for listening and welcome to today's episode. Good morning everyone, Dr. Stillman here with Amy Arp. Today we are going to be talking about core protocols that we use at the practice, specifically with regards to some very special supplements that we use. These are the vitamin C protocol, the MSM protocol, and the high-dose iodine protocol. So we get a lot of questions about these from patients. We wanted to provide a little bit of background on why we use these protocols and how we use these protocols and why they are created or formulated the way that they are, because what people notice about them is they're not simple. It's not take 2 morning, noon, and night. It's, you know, take this much, dissolve it in this much water, take it this way. And that I think gets in the way of people doing the protocols. But if you understand why we do them the way that we do them, it makes sense why we do them the way that we do them. And then you'll also understand why other people don't talk about these supplements as much as they might, because if you understand how they really work, you, you really don't see how to use them other than this way, frankly. So Amy is going to get to interview me today, which is fun.

Yes, this is really fun. Yeah, we've had a lot of questions about this recently, and so we figured we would just jump on and do a podcast about it. So first question, why did you decide to do the vitamin C protocol?

So my training, I went through a lot of different mentors and teachers, and I read an incredible number of books and papers. And I don't really think I could have told you this when I started, but I, I was sort of unwittingly or subconsciously looking for like the most foundational elements of medicine, which not surprisingly turned out to be the periodic table. I wanted to see what is foundational to health. What is the most important, or the most important things that we do and choose each day to create excellent health and recover from illness. In what we start everyone on, which is nutritional balancing based on hair tissue testing, we also test blood and sometimes urine levels of heavy metals and nutrients. We create these very sophisticated, very comprehensive protocols for people where we are taking into account all their lab data and putting together a supplement protocol that's got almost all of the minerals and elements, I should say, that they could possibly need. And then the rest of the protocols that I put on top of that, that I start usually after we get people their customized personalized supplements based on their HTMA, are to address other elements in the periodic table, but also vitamins. And we do include vitamins in the, in the mineral balancing or nutritional balancing protocols that we use because they synergize with the minerals. But these three protocols had to be formulated outside of the mineral protocols because What people don't get is that the dose is really important, and it is not practical to put the doses of these things in the mineral balancing protocols that we end up using. So we have 3 specific protocols for them. They also, by the way, will cause a certain amount of people to have pretty significant reactions, detoxification reactions. Sometimes they're actual— they just can't tolerate it. They may have an allergy. And so I didn't want to put them in people's supplement protocols because I wanted to know if they were reacting to them specifically so we could just stop them individually. Likewise, some people would do amazingly well with these protocols and I wanted them to continue just this protocol without anything else in it. So that's essentially where this came from. And, you know, it's also based on just experience in the world of what has historically been called orthomolecular medicine, which is— it came out of the 1960s and '70s and Linus Pauling and these early pioneers of nutritional therapy. They found that using these big, big, big doses of things like particularly vitamin C would give people these amazing results. And if you don't get to these big doses, sometimes you just don't see those results. And it was just passed down to me from multiple mentors that these are 3 supplements that are incredibly powerful. And then I just said, well, these are so good, but I also don't know who's going to respond to them. So I just give everyone the protocol and the supplement and see who responds. And that's something that I think— I don't know if it frustrates patients, but it sort of frustrates me. A pretty typical story in the practice is 12 weeks have gone by, 18 weeks have gone by, 24 weeks, 6 months have gone by, and someone is 99% better. And we are not really sure what did the work, but they did these 3 protocols and the mineral balancing and the lifestyle changes that we recommend, and they're all better. Very consistent. So consistent that the number that people report in terms of percent improvement while they're with us in a program or membership is 68%. They say, I'm 68% better now than I was when I started with you. And with 100 piece— with 100% being where they'd like to be. 95% of patients or more see a greater than 50% improvement. So almost no one fails this protocol. And when I say this protocol, I mean the nutritional balancing plus these 3 protocols.

Okay. Let's talk about each one a little bit more in specific. Vitamin C protocol. Let's talk about what is the vitamin C doing? You know, why the vitamin C in specific? Why did you pick vitamin C protocol?

Let's go back to the history of vitamins. It was Albert Szent-Györgyi who said, "A vitamin is something that makes you ill if you don't eat it." And this concept of making you ill if you don't eat it is very interesting because on the flip side of it is if you take more and more and more and more of it, it may make you healthier and healthier and healthier and stronger. Now, there's always, of course, the law of diminishing returns. You cannot just take infinite amounts of any nutrient and continue to get improvement. In the early days, though, what people saw with vitamin C was nothing short of miraculous. So my favorite work in this is from a guy named Frederick Klenner. Klenner was an MD in North Carolina. He was working around the area that, that Duke University is, and he was giving patients very high doses of vitamin C through injection, and he combined it with high-dose IV thiamine to treat, at the time, what they called polio. Today, I think they would probably call it transverse myelitis, MS, etc. His protocols used very, very high doses of these, and he said— and I think about this, and this is part of we give people the vitamin C protocol typically first. He said the physician should give the patient vitamin C while they contemplate the diagnosis, which is to say, while you're figuring out what's going on and what exactly you should do, you should just go ahead and start vitamin C. So this power of vitamin C was very widely reported, very much championed by Linus Pauling, who wrote a great book on it with a guy named Ewan Cameron, who together they did these studies in Scotland, I believe it was, in a cancer ward. Great book, Vitamin C and Cancer, and they just saw these amazing, amazing results. To this day, vitamin C infusions for cancer remain a very thriving part of integrative practice. There's tons of doctors all over the country giving high doses of vitamin C to cancer patients who see value in terms of how they feel, how they function. I had a patient who ended up passing from her cancer, but she said that she doesn't know how she would have made it as long as she did without the vitamin C that she got. So in any event, we saw these really profound results with vitamin C and this then, you know, of course with the supplement industry as it took off in the '70s, '80s, '90s, last couple decades, vitamin C has been one of the most popular supplements, but this is where things get really interesting. So quality suffered. Almost all the vitamin C on the market is derived from corn and a lot of it is not actually vitamin C. It's something like vitamin C. And the result is that people are not seeing great results with vitamin C like we see, pun intended, I guess, plan words intended. I know, right? We're coming out with our own. I'm using plus in the names. I was going to, it's like Dr. Stillman's Omega Plus, Dr. Stillman's Digestive Plus. I was going to make it Dr. Stillman's C Plus, but then I realized that just didn't, didn't quite sound right. Anyway, people don't see these great results with vitamin C because they're using bad product because unfortunately it's one of the sort of quirks of consumer mindset. I mean, we all want to economize. We all want to shop for a better deal. We all want that, but this has created this race to the bottom in the supplement industry. So I knew we needed high doses because of what we saw with guys like Klenner. But I also knew we needed a really high-quality product because what you really saw was that people saw great results with IV vitamin C. And to this day, I have not ever had a patient come in and say, this vitamin C from so-and-so, such-and-such knockoff big-box name-brand supplement company is just so amazing. And it is, it is so common that it happened in the practice. So Eva, our nurse, confessed to me recently that she did the vitamin C protocol with a vitamin C that we don't recommend, and She did the protocol and she felt horrible and she didn't get a benefit at all. And then she came back and she said, you know, Dr. Stillman, I did do that. It didn't work. I'm not happy. I said, well, what did you use? She said, I used this other company. I said, well, look, here's a bottle of ours that we recommend and know is great. Try it with this, completely different result. So I knew we needed a high dose. And this is another thing about the high dose. In a physiology textbook, they'll tell you that the human bowel can only take 6 to 8 grams or some arbitrary number like that. That's just a lie. We've got patients in the practice who can take 15 grams without having a loose stool. And that's what happens when you take too much vitamin C, you get loose stools. So if somebody can tolerate 50 grams and feels worlds, worlds, worlds better on that, it implies they have a deficit of that much and they need that. So what we would see is that the greater the deficit, the greater the benefit. And sometimes even though there wasn't a big deficit, people would see this massive benefit. And the benefits are really quite remarkable. They run a huge range. So I knew we needed a high dose. I knew we needed a really, really high quality product. And I knew that if we didn't get to the high dose in some people, we wouldn't see results. And that was where the protocol came from, is the mentor handed it basically to me and said, this is how you've got to do vitamin C because otherwise you're just not going to get to the doses you need. He didn't use a very high quality vitamin C. And so I don't even know if he understands how powerful it is to this day. But we do because we ended up meeting, you know, Russell Jaffe, whose vitamin C we've been using now for years. So you need a high dose. You need to tailor it to the patient. And with vitamin C, what we see is constipation is relieved first, which is partly because at the dose you tolerate, it will cause the stool to be a little bit more loose. We will use it to treat constipation regularly. The body needs vitamin C in order to make collagen cross-links. So collagen is what holds you up. It's your main structural protein. So you need vitamin C to make collagen. So without it, you fall apart. That's why with scurvy, what happens is teeth fall out, gums get loose, people start bleeding, bruising, they may have even spontaneous internal bleeding. They can have strokes, heart attacks, all kinds of terrible things. And they'll also get like joint displacements, or I should say, and get like fractures, or they can get joint injuries or ligamentous laxity, things like that. In any event, we need the high dose. We need to tailor it to the patient. We need to use a really high-quality product. It's creating this structural protein cross-linking in collagen. It helps the immune system destroy bad things, take out the trash is how I put it. And that's cells that are gone awry, could become cancerous. It's, you know, all these viruses, bacteria, you name it, occult infections, and then the The other thing vitamin C does is it's really important actually for the creation of certain hormones and neurotransmitters. That's why guys like Paul Marik and Peter Kory, who I've never talked to them about this, but I wonder if they read Kleiner's work. I imagine they must have. And most people probably don't know this, but Kory and Marik got a lot of their early notoriety for a study or series of studies in the ICU where they looked at high-dose vitamin C with thiamine and hydrocortisone, and they saw these amazing results. I believe they must have based it on Kleiner's work because I don't know where else they would have gotten the idea unless it was just first principles. And so With high-dose vitamin C, people, people, they just feel better. They have a generally improved sense of well-being. They have more energy. They feel better about life. They have a better mood. They have more stamina. And with inflammatory processes, it can sometimes be really profound. You know, I've seen bug bites with vitamin C shrink by 50% in a matter of, you know, minutes to hours. I have seen and heard patients tell me that their back pain or their pain went from 8 out of 10 to 2 out of 10. That is not reproducible. It's not consistent. It's just a correlation in some cases. So that's how we use it. That's why we use it. And it is, I'm convinced, one of the most important things we give patients. Even if they don't notice a huge difference, I really believe that it's having a huge impact behind the scenes.

Love that. Okay. Next, MSM. Tell us what it is, what it's used for, and how we use it in the practice.

Methylsulfonylmethane, MSM for short, is a combination of carbon groups and sulfur. It's sometimes called DMSO2. DMSO2. MSO is like a wrecking ball and MSM is like a sledgehammer. So sulfur is a very important element in the body. Levels tend to decline as we age. Our chief sources of sulfur are green leafy vegetables and meats. And as digestion deteriorates, which it does in most chronically ill sick people, their ability to absorb sulfur and utilize sulfur deteriorates. Sulfur is very important for the water bonding networks that really life depends upon for energy generation. When sulfur levels decline or deteriorate within people, they just see this overall decline in their vitality. And that's what I love about MSM, is it's a very fast, very powerful way to replete sulfur. You also get this methyl group from MSM. That's why it's methylsulfonylmethane. And those methyl groups can feed into the methylation cycle. And so with these high doses of sulfur that we get from MSM, What you generally will see is people have more energy, they have a better mood, they sleep better. Sometimes it will just knock out issues with poor sleep. Aches and pains tend to go away. Inflammatory processes really can be significantly impacted by MSM. The book on this is by a guy named Stanley Jacobs, who is arguably more famous for his work on DMSO, but to my knowledge, he never wrote a book on DMSO. He only wrote a book on MSM. We use MSM in just about every case because of all these benefits, but also because it's a lot simpler than DMSO. DMSO has a bunch of downsides. It makes your breath smell like cream corn, which is not how you become the most popular person in your workplace or school. It's such a good solvent that it, if you put DMSO on your skin and it's too near some ink on your clothes, it will suck the ink into your body. If you put DMSO on skin where it's contaminated, you can really get sick from pulling whatever's on the skin into the body. But one of the cases that caused DMSO to really be, I guess, human use discouraged was some kid in, I think it was Texas, who had had an injury in a football game, used DMSO to knock out the pain, but he inadvertently sucked the debris from the field into his body and he died. So DMSO is really powerful and I would not just throw it at patients. They have to be very carefully coached, educated, and, and understand the risks and benefits of it. MSM, on the other hand, is very, very simple, very, very safe, very benign. I look at it as not only repleting the body with sulfur, which it needs for energy generation, but I also look at it as as improving membrane permeability. So things can come out faster and things can go in faster. And that can be a double-edged sword because you can push people too fast with MSM, as in they're, they're re-nourishing so quickly that they start to feel worse, or they're detoxing so quickly that they start to feel terrible. And that's very anecdotal, very much just my sort of opinion having used it in a lot of cases. You will get some people who cannot tolerate sulfur. The book on this is The Devil and the Garlic by a guy named Greg Nye. Very interesting read on sulfur intolerance. These people have issues usually with molybdenum, but I'll leave the rest of it for Greg. His book is terrific. If you, if you want to know more about it, check it out. These people who can't tolerate sulfur, they cannot tolerate MSM. We look for underlying issues, we address those, and then hope to move them back to tolerating sulfur. That can be a bit of a tricky issue, but I would say that's not more than 1 in 10 patients in the practice at most. Most people tolerate the MSM protocol very well. The issue with the MSM protocol is really that it tastes very bitter. And because I don't want people to dose too quickly on it because of these detox reactions people can get, the taper up is very slow and it takes about 4 days. So you have to sit down, read the protocol, learn it, understand it, and then do it. And that's not just take 2 twice a day for 8 weeks. Right? It also means that it's not very practical to keep doing these protocols month after month, week after week. You know, I end up using my vitamin C daily because I just have it on my desk and I think it's delicious, but I think my MSM is somewhere in a drawer over there, and I haven't used MSM in months. And so what we'll also tend to do with these protocols, particularly MSM, is rotate it in and out. So people will replete their sulfur stores, they'll see this great lift, they'll feel much better. Pill burden, supplement burden, treatment fatigue will set in, they'll stop using it. I understand, I stop using it too. Then they'll come back to it in 6 months, often at my prompting. They'll say, hey, this is worse, that's worse, what else can I do? I say, when was the last time you took MSM? They say, you know, it's been a while. I said, great, pull it out of the cupboard, mix up a batch, and get after it. And that often is very, very impactful for them.

This is so helpful. I think this is really helpful to hear the backstory for people to understand each product and what it does. I think it's fascinating. Some of these books I need to read. I haven't read all of them. This is wonderful.

To put this in perspective, the amount of time, energy, education it took me to get all this background— years, years and years and years and years and years about reading some of these things. And some of these things you just don't hear about because of the economics of the supplement industry. So vitamin C, I think my friend in the supplement industry texted me, he's like, that should be $4 a kilo. Your price for that is insane. I was like, well, it's corn-free, soy-free. Dairy-free, major allergen-free, totally 100% vitamin C. So I mean, I guess if it's too expensive for you, good luck with whatever you're taking. People are like, oh well, that's too expensive, I'm going to buy the knockoff version, which might be 50% vitamin C or might be derived from corn, and maybe you unwittingly have a corn allergy. We've seen that happen in the practice. We've had people get 100% better just by eliminating corn, which we figured out with an allergy test. And then with the MSM, the economics behind that is that MSM is like dirt cheap. It is one of the most inexpensive supplements on the planet. It's so inexpensive that a lot of the main supplement manufacturers don't even carry it. And then to get a therapeutic dose, you have to go to basically 2 grams, or you might as well not even bother. So most of them will, will pack it in 1,000-milligram capsules and say like, take 2 twice a day. Okay, great. That's a good start. We use 20 grams a day on the protocol, and that's what rocks people's world. And even if you go through mountains of MSM, which you might, you might find that valuable, doesn't pay anybody's bills in a meaningful way, which means that no one talks about it. So they're always talking about these high-margin supplements, these like designer supplements, which is sometimes great. But I just want people to understand in the real world where we actually see patients and we don't just write newsletters to sell supplements. And I'm not discouraging you from buying supplements that we sell through a newsletter. It helps us make more educational content so you understand how this actually works so you can get great results. But you have to like just deal with the fact that if you're not ready to take 5, 10, 20 grams of MSM a day, you might not get any lift or any benefit. And so anyway, I'm going to get off my soapbox.

Amy, it's so true. So true. Okay, last but not least, the iodine protocol. So tell us a little bit about why the iodine protocol and what you see in your practice.

So I learned about this from David Brownstein, and I read his book on iodine, and I was just sort of working through the periodic table, like, what's this element? How much do I give people? Why? When do I give it to them? What happens if I use too much? What happens if I use too little? And I just got to iodine, and read Brownstein's work on it because it's the best work on it. He's seen thousands of patients, measured countless levels. I mean, the guy knows more about iodine handling in the human body based on real data from real patients than probably anybody else on planet Earth. And if he doesn't, he's probably really close with the person who is. He just said, look, in my practice, we start everyone on iodine, we go to a high dose, they feel better. We get some of our most incredible testimonials and results with it, it chases out all these toxic halides. And this is where the historical background on this is we probably didn't need high doses of iodine 2, 3, 4, 500 years ago before we started spraying fluorine and chlorine and bromine into everything. I mean, bromine is in bread, it's in fire retardants, it's in furniture, it's in your clothes, it's everywhere. So these things are just all over the place and they're constantly coming into our bodies. They're very, they're very good at penetrating the human body. And so what you end up having is these high, high levels of these toxic halides and they chase out iodine, which is very volatile. Iodine is so volatile. If you drop it on the counter, it will evaporate, which is wild. Think about like if you dropped a half teaspoon of vitamin C powder on your counter, some, something would come by and eat it before it evaporated, but iodine will evaporate. And the crazy thing about this is you will actually breathe out a non-zero proportion portion of your body's iodine. You'll just exhale it, it's so volatile, which actually means that levels of iodine in the body drop very rapidly once you stop giving it. And back in the day, when most of humanity lived by some body of water, because water is so powerful for efficiency and it's so important for our biology, we ate a lot of seaweed, we ate a lot of seafood. You go back and— I was just reading the Book of Luke the other day, there's no mention of meat. Jesus is always eating fish. And today, you know, just in our modern world, people don't eat fish and they have good reasons to. It's contaminated. It's farmed in ways that are not good for it or the environment. It's more expensive. It's not as delicious as steak, just saying. And seaweed, only the Japanese eat appreciable quantities of seaweed. We in the United States are just not on, I mean, we're just not, we're not doing that. I actually cook with seaweed because I think it's delicious, but also out of this conviction that I need more iodine. But anyway, so we, we had these high intakes of iodine and as iodine iodine intake has deteriorated, thyroid disorders have increased in prevalence, chronic diseases, cancers, brain disorders, all kinds of things, all in tissues that are dependent upon iodine for optimal function. So, as we started to ramp up supplementation in the world of integrative medicine, we just saw these great results. People would say, "Oh, well, you're going to give people hyperthyroidism." That isn't borne out. We don't see that in clinical practice. You will have people on high-dose iodine potentially develop hyperthyroidism. That can happen, but you can't prove it. And how could you prove it when we've got 180-some patients on it or who've been through the protocol. And you might have one case of hyperthyroidism the whole practice, the whole time. It's a great protocol. Some of my happiest patients and most glowing testimonials are people who responded well to iodine. And so I take 50 milligrams myself every day just because I don't want, want any of the problems associated with low iodine levels. And we ramp people up to 50 and then we usually ramp them back down to 25, which is the average dose people need, but they may stick with the 50 milligram dose.. And we may, if we have a lot of pill burden and people are just looking to sort of take a break from taking so many supplements, just, you know, drop that off the list and focus on other things that are more important. It just depends on the case.

So powerful. We see it every day in practice. All 3 of these, I feel like people get phenomenal results. I think the one last thing would love for you to touch on is, you know, what can people experience in terms of detox symptoms as they're taking them? Because I think that someone might listen to this and think, oh, I'm just going to try these things. And we would advise against that without practitioner, please, guiding you on these. And so just explain why and kind of the potential downsides of it.

Yes, please consult a qualified practitioner. So what I look for in detoxification or healing reactions is— and I look for two things, because generally speaking, one of two things will happen. Scenario A: patients have what I call therapeutic honeymoon. We put them on the nutritional balancing protocols that give them what they're missing, and they start to replete their body with nutrients, and they start to feel amazing. This happened very, very— it was uncanny, this, this happening to me this past week. I think it was a woman who, she said, in, in 6 weeks or something after our initial consult on the initial round of supplements, she was 80% better after struggling with the issues she was struggling with for 5 years and seeing all these doctors and trying. And she's a health coach, so she knows a lot of things herself. And I tell patients that the therapeutic honeymoon, which is this, this period of, oh my gosh, I feel so much better on this protocol, is about 6 weeks usually. And I asked her, because she came back to me saying, I feel terrible now. I'm at 20% of where I, of where I would like to be after being at 80%. Let's get back to 80%. I was, I was liking that. And I said, well, how long would you say after you started your initial round of supplementation did you start to feel worse? She said about 6 weeks. And I just said, that is just so uncanny. That is exactly how long the therapeutic honeymoon, I tell people to expect it to last. So scenario A is therapeutic honeymoon and then slipping into some kind of detox reaction during the program. We also have people who don't do that. They just take all the supplements and all the protocols and do all the things and they just get worlds better, which is great. So what I'm looking for and what happened with her is usually symptoms they've had before will worsen. So they'll flare and they'll worry that they're going backwards and that it wasn't working. Generally speaking, what will happen is we cut doses of things back and we try and figure out what's driving that. Because I look at it as that we're just driving them towards better health too fast. And it's this balance between, well, I want to get the patient all better right now. And I also don't want to push them into these reactions where they're feeling worse because they're actually getting better. Right. And that's very much a conversation we have with them. Do you feel like you can handle more or not? You know, what do you have time for? Because we'll be more cautious in people who just can't afford to take a day off. Busy moms, full-time, you know, employees. If they just can't take a day off, we get it. We'll also have other people. I've had people who took 6 months off of work to just focus on their health. They want to just get, get the job done and they don't care if they feel poorly during the day. So I tell them to look for a resurgence or recurrence of their symptoms. It may even be worse than before, but the big difference is there's subtle signs of improvement. Something is better. They're not back to square one, they're at square two or three. And so that's what I look for. And like I said, I'll usually cut these three protocols— C, MSM, and iodine. I'll usually just cut them completely for a few days, let the nutrient wash out of the them and then start them back again at a half dose, if that. And with the mineral balancing or nutritional balancing supplements, I'll usually drop those out for 3 days and then bring those back at a half dose. It just depends on the severity. It depends on other factors. And then obviously we'll use medication, supplements, other interventions as needed to control symptoms while people go through this. But generally speaking, once they get to the other side of one of these reactions, they feel better. And they're often, their labs look better as well. And, you know, we'll see it in the hair. You know, just the other day we had a patient with MS who's second hair test came back and he had doubled his cadmium level. And, you know, he feels better, but he doesn't feel all better. And the reason why he's dumping more cadmium into his hair is that we've given his body what it needs in order to detoxify itself and to eliminate the cadmium. So he's getting rid of these heavy metals from his body thanks to the protocols we have him on. And I can't remember which of these 3 core protocols he's on. It might not be even any of them, but he's certainly on the nutritional balancing protocol, and that's part of why we start with that. It's very powerful. If people want to ask questions for the weekly Q&A, there's a public link below. Public link questions get last priority. If you want to upgrade to support the work we do in educating people how to be healthy, go ahead. There's a private link for you to submit your questions that you get in every Substack email now, and that will be in premium-only posts. And we appreciate your supplement purchases through our online store, which is very nearly done. And we really hope you will support us in educating you because because I just don't see anyone doing this kind of education. It's, it's all just kind of thinly veiled. I mean, I res— I respect my colleagues and my, my fellow physicians, but I just look at a lot of it as just thinly veiled marketing, and I don't see it getting patients really great results like we want them to. So that's that. We also are gonna be putting all the protocols out behind the paywall. I just have to have some time to edit them. If you'd like them faster, subscribe to the premium so I can afford the time. And what else? We'll also have the protocols available in school, which is our new online community, the Autoimmunity Recovery School. We look forward to seeing many of you there.

All right.