Light, Modern Life, and the Biology of Wellness

Welcome to Integrative Medicine with Dr. Leland Stillman, the podcast where we explore the best of East and West, old and new, conventional and unconventional, in search of answers to medicine's toughest cases and most difficult problems. This podcast is for informational purposes only. Diagnostics and therapeutics discussed on this podcast may or may not be right for you, so talk to a qualified practitioner before taking action based on what you learn here. If you'd like to become a patient at my practice, go to StillmanMD.com to schedule a complimentary discovery call. Thank you for listening and welcome to today's episode.

Hello everyone. Dr. Stillman here back again for another exciting episode with my friend Meredith Oak. Meredith, thank you for joining us again. She's been on the podcast twice now. If you haven't listened to her episodes, they're must-listen-tos. Thank you for joining me.

It is a pleasure to be here. Nice to see you, Leland.

So today I asked you to join me to talk about your experience with light therapy. The reason I'm asking you is that you are the founder of the Quantum Biology Collective podcast. You have the distinction of recently being— is it delisted or eliminated or otherwise removed from YouTube, which means you are definitely over the target. That was my email to you when you— did you get that email?

I loved it. I, I'm the dominant response. You know what world you're living in when I'm like, I got deleted off YouTube. Everyone's like, good for you. They actually, we have since been reinstated. They were very cagey. I, I worked around the system and found a way back in, but I don't really. So we're there, we're back there, but got it. It's not the main platform. The podcast platforms are a way better place to find us.

Absolutely. Yes. That's part of why we podcast more than we do anything on the big social media. So today we want to talk about light therapy and I wanted to talk to you about it because you have had a very thorough, extensive experience with light therapy and light in general. So I'm going to kick it over to you. Talk to us about your experience with light therapy. What got you interested in it? How did you start? And what are your thoughts on it now after a long journey into the quantum biology space?

Yes. Well, as we talked about on the other episodes, the main motivating factor for me to research this was that I had chronic fatigue and I had done all the things and I could not move the needle. And it wasn't until I started to understand how fundamental light is to our biology that I was able to get my energy back. Because if we don't have our light environment in a way set up in a way that supports our biology, we cannot have enough energy to live. And I didn't understand that. So the first piece was like, oh, I should stop with the really bright artificial light at night. I should go outside more. Understanding about going outside first thing in the morning upon waking and going outside periodically throughout the day and allowing the sun, which programs our biology, to actually interact with my biology instead of being inside all of the time was huge. And then keeping it nice and dark at night when it's dark outside was huge. And then it was like, okay, but I do live in the modern world. I'm not a cavewoman and I don't spend my, my entire day outside wearing an animal skin in my bare feet and sleeping in a dark cave. Like, that's not my life.

Shout out to all of our friends currently in Central America basically doing that.

Listen, if you can, if you can get that set up, In 2026, God bless you. But I, you know, I'd actually, as much as I've come to understand about how completely detrimental to our health a lot of our modern life is, I also like it. I like going to the city. I like having computers. I like social media. I mean, you know, I enjoy, I don't have, I guess what I'm saying is I don't have like buried aspirations to go off-grid or anything like that. However, I also want to be as healthy as possible. So it was like, okay, if I could be outside all day, I wouldn't need probably a single gadget, but I can't. So then I started to understand that I was what we'll say, like infrared light deficient, right? Like there's, there's that you get when you're outside, you don't get when you're inside. And over time that builds up into a total deficit. And one engineer I interviewed called it scurvy of the 21st century. First century is the infrared light deficiency. It's like, what's wrong with everybody?

I love it.

Why is everyone so sick?

Yes.

Light scurvy. So that's where I, red light therapy has been really helpful. And you recommended to our family that we do infrared sauna. So we added that in. And that was really helpful. So now I'm like stacking things up. I've got morning light, daytime light, evening light. Dark inside.

Why had you not seized on sauna already when I started to recommend it to you?

I just didn't think about it. Like, I'm not— and this is, I know, a bit weird since I host a quantum biology health podcast, but I wasn't really a health nerd. Like, I was not following all the trends and doing all of the things and deep into the world of like, oh, now we do this, and oh, now everyone's doing cold plunges, now everyone's doing saunas. I wasn't really paying attention to that. So I was just adding things as they became needed and connecting with people like you who really knew what they were talking about. So I didn't— it wasn't just picking up a trend-based healing process. It was information as I needed it-based healing process.

Okay. And then after sauna?

So after sauna, and sauna was super helpful, especially if you live in a higher latitude. I find during the winter, it really, really changed my experience of winter, even though I still go outside and walk the dog every day, it's definitely less. So I'd really, that was a big one. Then like, I don't actually use this one, but if I worked in an office where I couldn't open the window, I would use like a light box on my desk. And the only one I like is by this guy at Soulshine. He's a nonprofit and he's just a nerd who's done a labor of love.

Love it.

He used to work with John Ott and he's just over time evolved this like super duper desk lamp that has all of the full spectrum everything. So I think that would be next in my stack, but I work mostly next to an open windows. Haven't invested in that yet. I tried doing lasers for my skin. I did this kind of like, was like this woman who repurposed the lasers that you use for surgery to penetrate down and start your collagen production again. So that was one of the more like extreme ends of the light therapy that I tried. And it was, it was effective, but only for a period of time. And it was like $900.

How long?

So I didn't do that. I did that, like, whatever. I bought a package of sessions.

Was each session $900?

Yeah. But when you bought a package, it was slightly less, but I think I spent like $2,000 on this, which my husband was like, what? But, uh, when you're all of a sudden you wake up and your face is falling off, you're like, sorry, honey, we're, we're doing this. But again, I couldn't, I'm like, I can't keep doing it.

It was not sustainable. Plus you said it, you ran out of what I call therapeutic runway.

Say more about that.

Well, my idea of therapeutic runway, I'm the only person who talks about this, but it was like I found with every therapeutic, I had a certain amount of time, like a window where it would work. And if I didn't address the underlying problems beneath that problem, it would run out of runway. And so it's this concept of, yes, you can take modafinil, let's say. To treat your ADHD. And then next year or the year after, you're going to go back to your doctor, you're going to say it's not working. And they're going to say, well, take more. And then they're going to say, take more, take more, take more, take more, take more, take more. And then they're going to be like, well, we can't give you any more because if we do that, we're going to give you a heart attack or an arrhythmia. And they're like, oh, well, what do I do now? And it's like, well, we have nothing else for you. Good luck. And so, and then you can get into all the other things, right? But at the end of the day, if you do not fix fundamental underlying physiology, you're just tire patching. You're just giving people crutches and there's a place for crutches. Talk to a patient today, had a sprained ankle, he's on crutches, but he wants his ankle back. So that's what I mean by therapeutic runway.

That makes so much sense. And I was actually thinking about a very— thinking about things in a very similar way, right? So it's like with, let's say, reverse aging, there are things that you can do that will make you look younger for a period of time, like injectables or Botox or whatever. Mm-hmm. But then eventually it stops and you either have to pay to do it again and you're also paying a price versus doing something that is actually regenerating your body underneath and has the added benefit of also having a reverse aging effect. Yes. Like there's things like you were saying, like if I have an infection, I'll take antibiotics, but I'm not gonna take them forever and be like, oh, well, it's like, no, once it's done, it's done. Versus going out in morning light, it's like, I wasn't like, oh, my energy's back. I don't have chronic fatigue anymore. I'll stop doing that. It's like, no, that's what my body needs to function properly.

Right.

So for me, with the reverse aging, I'm like, what is exactly what you're saying? I'm like, what can I do to maintain my energy and to maintain vitality and age gracefully or age backwards? Maybe that is not just giving me those effects, but also having a regenerative effect.

Yes.

So that's kind of like my whole grail of what I look for. So most of those things are like eat real food, go outside, get morning light, drink real water, take supplements as needed. But again, I don't even wanna be on a supplement like, oh, I have to take this forever.

Why? Yeah.

Which brings me to the patches because they fit that model.

I'm like, oh, when did you first try them?

So I tried them, it's coming up, it'll be, it's been like a year and 9 months.

Okay. And what did you first notice?

The first thing I noticed was like an immediate alleviation of brain fog. Like it was, it was very quick, like clouds parting. And I did—

if zero is where you were with your brain fog before you started any of this health journey, like the worst it ever was, where were you with your brain fog before you started the patches?

I'd say the worst the brain fog ever was, it was probably a 4 out of 10. And then as I did all of the other things, I act— I actually thought it was at like an 8. But then I put the patch on and it cleared up. It was like, oh, I didn't even realize I still had brain fog. So I would say I probably moved it up to like a 6 or 7. And then with the patches, I'm, I'm closer to like a 9.

So would it be fair to say you went from, if 0 is where you were when you, you were at your worst, you had like a 40 to 60% improvement with all the stuff we talked about in episodes 1 and 2, and then another 4-point improvement up to like 8 out of 10 with the patches?

Is that fair? Yeah.

Okay, great. Sorry. I get really like, I'm like, and it keeps improving. Really?

Yeah. So like my, like it's better right now than it was a year ago. Hmm.

That's amazing. Is it the only change you've made?

I mean, so yeah. I mean, the biggest one. Yeah. Putting the patches on.

Amazing. What other benefits have you noticed?

Yeah, no, I do find the benefits to be cumulative because some people have like an immediate, oh, and some people don't. Other people it's like, You ask them questions and it's like, oh yeah, that is a bit better. Oh yeah, that is a bit better. And so I noticed that for myself as well.

That's so funny about that.

Yeah.

We had a patient who said, I'm 0% better on their end of program review. But then my team went through and they were like, how much better is your energy? Your, your, your sleep, your— and she's like, oh, it's 6 out of 10, 5 out of 10, 7 out of 10. It's like, wait, I, what?

Huh?

How does that make sense? Anyway, she's now 80% better, so we're still winning.

Okay.

So then what else did the patches do for you? Cause you start, you mentioned your appearance with the laser therapy.

Yes. So I feel like it's, I'm getting a similar effect with that. Like I look at pictures of myself from like 3 years ago versus pictures now and like I look slightly younger and like, I'm not gonna say that I don't care or do care, but that's just what's happening.

Well, let's like make it not about vanity. 'Cause here's the thing that I think is interesting about our external appearances. What's happening on the outside is happening on the inside. Yeah. And that doesn't mean that if you're pretty, you might not have some problems under the hood. But mm-hmm. You know, I mean like,, you know, things that you do that are bad for your body, they're going to make you look not so great. So people sometimes I think get hung up on why I need to not be vain about this, but it's also like, well, if you're really starting to look worse rapidly, that might be a sign something's wrong. And maybe we should actually think about it in terms of not, well, I just want to look good, but I want to function well. And I want to be here for another 10 years, not, you know, wind up in the ER or the ICU.

Because I know what the, what the patch is doing. I just see that, yeah, as sort of the external, you know, the external way that the inner, the inner healing is showing up. Cause it's like, like I know my stem cells were all starting to go to sleep and I put a little sticker on and now they're getting wakened up. Yeah. Which sounds crazy, but that's also why I trusted them so much. Cause I was so deep into understanding how light affects our bodies. Understanding how light affects ourselves, understanding that we are all running on quantum biology, not bio, biochemistry. So when someone, so when David was like, well, there's nanocrystals that reflect back the frequency of your body's light emissions at a certain, you know, at a certain frequency, which trigger copper peptide to be made, which wakes up your stem cells. I'm oversimplifying, but you know, whatever. Yeah. I was like, That makes perfect sense to me.

Yes. So I really had it.

I had context for it. It fit right into my paradigm. And so I don't usually talk, you know, I'm not a big product person, but I was like, this is amazing. Like, this is literally technology that I didn't think we'd have for another 50 years. And we have it now.

What has your experience been since you obviously run a practitioner training program at the Institute for Applied Quantum Biology? What has your experience been recommending it to and what is the reception it's received from practitioners and experts who you've recommended it to?

So every single one of them who's looked at it seriously has— so these are people who have a deep understanding of quantum biologic processes. They have either studied it and practiced it and taught it, or like at least two of those three things. Like they really understand what's going on, which is a very unusual knowledge to have. Like, because Quantum biology is not taught at the undergrad level. It's not taught at the grad level. It's not taught really anywhere except for a few like independent places and mostly at the academic level. So to have people who have both clinical experience and a deep understanding of quantum biology is a super rare combo. So I was like, okay, if these people can validate what is going on here, like I'm all in. I was already in, but I'm like in, in. And every single one of them who looked at it seriously and was like, ah, yeah, this is real. This is amazing. And most of them are now using them to some extent, either on themselves or within their patients and clients.

Absolutely. Good to know.

Yeah. Cuz it's, it's like, you know, cuz I know that can kind of stop people, right? It's like, what is this? How does it work?

I know.

It's like trying to explain a remote control to people who only have a radio, right? Like They don't, they're literally like, how can, how can that be? How can that work? How can this little sticker that doesn't put anything in your body have such a profound effect?

Absolutely.

But if you understand quantum biology, it makes perfect sense.

Yeah. Any closing thoughts for people before we sign off?

Yeah. You know, this product is really crazy cuz on the one hand there are a lot of really crazy testimonials from people who have had like profound and immediate responses. Mm-hmm. On the other hand, this is not a miracle cure. It's like, I, I compare it to getting morning sunlight, right? Like if we want our biology to function well, we go outside every day and we don't think about it. And we're not like, hmm, where's the miracle? We're like, this is just what our body needs. And that's how, where I've come to land with the patches, right? It's like, this is just what my biology needs to stay optimal. And even, you know, go beyond what people expect it to be able to do is just, I stick this on. Every day. And that's, that's just it. I'm not like waiting for some, some huge miracle to happen. I just know, and I've had enough time with it now that my body is responding well and it's helping me to function better and it's helping my cells to reverse age. And so it's, it's feeding me. It's not taking from me.

And many people don't track their symptoms or their performance well enough to detect the difference. And that's something that I think is really interesting. You know, I have a guy, who is very serious, physically intense guy, does personal security work, and he's setting a new PR every time he goes for it with the patches. Most people don't have any kind of benchmark like that to be able to judge. And so they're like, well, I feel the same. It's like, well, you're not tracking it. So what you mean is it's not dramatic enough for you to have noticed. And then of course, as you mentioned, you get these incredible testimonies like yours. You put the patch on and minutes later you were at a different level. So, yeah.

And I've heard tons of those, like people who are in pain, they put it on, it went away. People who are in menopause, they put it on, they weren't in menopause anymore. Like, I know all kinds of crazy things. And I also know people like my husband where he is just like, I don't know, but he's, he's like on his third international trip in a month and he feels great.

Amazing. So links to, links to try the patches will be below. This episode. We appreciate your purchases. Thank you for helping us create amazing content through your purchases. Any other closing thoughts, Meredith?

Nope. Just, you know, there's always, there's always a way. There's always something new. Stay inspired. Stay around people who make you feel excited.

I love that. Thanks for joining me. Good to see you.

Thanks, Leland Stillman Stillman.