Should You Diversify Your Real Estate Portfolio? | with Mariah Kamei from AirDNA

Foreign.

Hello. Hello. Tim. Tim Hubbard.

Hello. Hello.

How are you? Welcome. Welcome to the STR Data Lab by Air DNA. Happy to have you.

Excited to be here. Excited to be here.

All the. All the way from Colombia. And what city in Colombia are you in right now? Forgot to ask.

In Medellin. Medellin.

You'd be surprised at how many people I talked to actually were in Medellin. I have an employee that lived there forever. It's crazy.

It has grown a lot. And it's for good reason. A lot of. It's a great place to be for lots of reasons.

It's on my list. It's on my list for sure. Well, Tim, let's talk about a little bit about who you are. You are the founder and CEO of Midtown Stays, which of course is a short term rental accommodation company.

A few fun stats about you. I think you own 69 properties. Roughly you manage 45 STRs. And this is my favorite fact about you, my friend. 27.5 average hours worked a month. We're going to talk about how you accomplish that because I'm going to confess, I work a lot more than 27.5amonth.

We can get into that for sure.

Yeah. I need all of your pro tips, please.

That's why I'm here. That's why I'm here.

I know you've also parlayed into being a great mentor for folks that are looking to get into the business. A lot of people have great things to say about your advice and tutelage, but what else should our audience know about you before we get into some of. Some of my burning questions?

Well, thanks for the introduction and thanks for having me too. I am excited. I'm always excited to talk about short term rentals because there's just so much opportunity and it's such a big part of a lot of people's lives now. But what else to know about me? I've been a real estate investor for the bulk of my career. Although I did work for a software company for about eight years as I was building my. My real estate portfolio. And so I do really like using software programs as well as air DNA. So that's kind of my background.

And I've. I have tried, you know, multiple types of real estate too, and I still invest in multiple types. I just personally think there is the most opportunity I've found with short term rentals. And I also like investing in short term rentals more than just other types of properties.

Oh my goodness. Well, I definitely need to know why, but I Love what you bring up because I think that's a really interesting point. I always joke with Jamie Lane, our VP of research, that I did not go to economy school. He's like giving me a crash course on some of these things occasionally. But that diversification even just within your real estate portfolio. Right. Like, so it's interesting to hear that you're not just, maybe not all of your eggs are in the str basket. You have sort of different places and I think you're invested in different countries as well. Is that correct?

Yeah, yeah. Brazil and Colombia, where I am right now. Mainly in the US though.

Because of ability to have bank loans, which really helps real estate investors not really available for foreigners living outside of their, their home country.

I was, I was about to ask about that.

Yeah, yeah. So it's definitely different, but there's, there's a lot of opportunity outside of the con out side of the US too. And, and the really cool thing about short term rentals is that if, if we set up a way to manage them, we pretty much manage them the same way no matter where they are. We have maybe some different regulations and have to work with different housekeepers. But the actual guest experience, there's pretty much.

One way to do it, to make sure your guests have the best experience with a lot of little components in there. But that's really what it comes down to is the guest experience with short term rentals. And so that part is the same no matter where your properties are or what type of properties you have. Because there's so many different types of short term rentals now too, which is another thing we can talk about because I think they all have their own unique risk profiles and they all have their own opportunities, they all have their own risks just based on the actual type of short term rental that it is.

Right. Oh my gosh, you're giving me so many good. You know, I, you know, we just talked about setting an agenda, but now I'm like, we may turn, we may turn the agenda a little bit on its head. I think, I think we should, we should go back and start real quick on, you know, why, why short term rentals? Like what was your aha moment? Because I know like you said, you've been doing this investment brokering thing. Brokering thing for quite some time. What was that aha moment for you, Tim, where you were like short term rentals, that's a space I want to go into.

Well, I've always really liked residential real estate.

People need a place to live. Right. And that's not going away. Of course, every market's different, so some have different opportunities. And I'm from California originally and I started investing in California and when the numbers started to change and I wasn't seeing as good a returns as I was when I first started investing there, I started looking in other markets. So I went to a handful of other states around the US and visited with a lot of property managers and went to a lot of different markets and did a lot of research on long term rentals. So I wanted to get some passive long term rentals and just kind of, I had done pretty well already and so I was looking to invest some money and just let it work for me passively. And while I was doing the research, I was staying in short term rentals and one of the markets that I found some opportunities in, I was looking at the returns that the long term rental opportunities had and then I just looked up the price of the property that I was actually staying in and I knew what I was paying because I was staying there and I'm like, oh my gosh, this property is just making way more money than these other ones could. So from then on I just started looking for properties that made sense as short term rentals. And that was quite a while ago now. So expanded quite a lot since then in multiple states and yeah, multiple countries now.

I love that. So a lot of it was driven by sort of that ability to just make more. Right. To just increase your profitability.

Yeah, I mean, I'm a real estate investor and so I'm looking for the best returns, risk adjusted.

Up until now. I mean, it's not to say that markets can't change and society can't change and regulations can't change. Those are all things we have to keep in consideration. But for me, at least the last seven years, I guess I've been investing almost specifically in short term rentals. I found the most opportunity with them. But I should add Mariah though, that I have a backup plan for most solid properties that I invest in and that is to put a long term tenant in there.

Right.

So I was looking in these markets for long term rentals that also happen to be good for short term rentals with sometimes the same properties. So I have that as a backup plan. I like finding a market that has good fundamentals just in general for a real estate investment. And then if I can put a short term, if I can change the long term rental into short term rental, then the returns can go much higher. And if something changes in the future you know, whatever happens, I can always go back to that long term tenant. So that's sort of been my strategy in a nutshell.

That's a good nutshell and I love that sort of. Yeah, like your ability to have sort of a plan A, plan B and probably even a plan C for, you know, your investment properties that you're doing. And also certainly the ability to have that flexibility. Right. Like, helps that you have experience both in long term rental and short term rental. Uh, so you talked a little bit about the other thing you brought unpacked that. I was like, ooh, we gotta talk a little more about. This was sort of how you've been able to achieve this process at scale. Right. Like, so that consistent experience. Right now you have a property management company, Midtown Stays, they have, you know, obviously a brand associated with them and an experience that you're delivering. So what has sort of been key to you? I know this is something, you know, Steve Milo, our friend at vtrips, talks a lot about is. Right. Like how do you deliver that consistent experience? What are some, some tips and tricks you might have for people that are trying to scale up their business on that department?

Yeah, it's a good, it's a good question. And I guess at first I would say that it depends, you know, depending on where we're at with our portfolio, we have like, we can't hire a full team of 10 people to help us manage our. An individual short term rental, for example. And so as you scale and as you get bigger, you have to change your management style a little bit or at least have more people helping you out, because we definitely can't do it all by ourselves, so.

Well, not if you only want to work 27 hours a month.

Yeah. So that is, that number is based on actual management and operations, which I do hardly, hardly anything with the actual operations. But I think the first piece of that is, is outsourcing the operations. And a big piece in the short term rental world are guest communications. Yeah, we have guests coming in and we have to communicate with them and we have to be available to communicate with them. And so that was the first piece that I outsourced to a third party receptionist team. And so almost from the very beginning, maybe, maybe three months after I launched my first rental, short term rental, I started outsourcing that part. And so that allowed me to scale a lot. And then I also worked with, you know, found housekeepers. And as I grew, some of the housekeepers I worked with and still work with me today and have worked with me in various states and we've added a lot of management responsibilities. So I guess I've tried to grow with the people that have been really good on my team and then just add in more people. I have a lot of my team's virtual. Another cool thing about short term rental management is a lot of it's virtual.

That's very cool.

So I have a lot of my team in the Philippines and then also Mexico.

So I think outsourcing and delegating.

Yeah, delegating is one of those things that always sounds logically good and then it's like, yeah, how do I actually accomplish it? And, you know, make sure that we're confirming things. I love that.

Thought process that you had and that you did it probably early on was probably a benefit to you because it wasn't like you'd been doing it all yourself and you felt like you had to like, let go. It was like. No, I know from the jump that this is something that I don't want to do myself and I want to bring in experts to do.

Totally, totally.

Go ahead.

Oh, sorry. Go ahead.

No, no, you, you first.

I was just gonna say I see a lot of people get intimidated when they maybe have their third, fourth short term rental and they are doing it all themselves. It's almost like it becomes so overwhelming that they don't want to think about scaling anymore. Whereas if, yeah, if you start that in the very beginning and you take away a lot of those things that maybe you don't like doing anyways, it just makes it easier. Easier in the long run. The cool thing about short term rentals too, is that if we've chosen the right property and it's a good investment, we're earning a lot more than we are with other traditional real estate investments. Long term rental, for example. And so we can afford to pay other people for all the additional help.

I love that. Yeah, right. You have a little bit more room in your margin to add in some overhead. And the other thing that I heard you say that I thought was really cool was that like, as you grew, some of the people that you've hired were able to grow as well. Right. So they were able, maybe they started as housekeepers, but then they were able to sort of grow their own businesses. And so there's this sort of all boats, rise of the tide. And of course, so much easier to reward. Like if, you know, you've got great housekeepers and they can scale their business up and you can keep that consistent guest experience.

Experience. Totally, totally. Yeah. It Takes a, you know, it can take a lot of work training someone. Right. And so if we already have good people that we're working with, let's just make sure we take care of them and grow with them because yeah, having someone leave your team and having to retrain old, that, that, that can take a lot of time.

Oh my gosh. Well, we have a thing around air DNA, it's called snaps. I'm going to give you some snaps for that because I think that's exactly what it's about in this business is like taking care of the people that are taking care of your property and your guests. Not losing that component. I think that's such a wonderful thing. And what I'm also getting from you, Tim, is just like the level of trust you've been able to put in others, which again, hard life skill to learn sometimes.

Yeah. And I'm not saying it's always been easy. I mean there's definitely been some challenges, you know, over the last seven years. Covid, for example, you know, you name it, there's, there's been a few challenges. But yeah, if you don't want to do all the work yourself, you have to trust someone else to do it. There's just not another way around that.

No, no. And I think that's like the only way. You know, it's like somebody wise, smart once told me, like if you want to go, you know, fast, go along, if you want to go alone, if you want to go far, go together. Right. Like you have to bring others with you. That's so, so cool. Well, the other one that you, you talked about is just sort of the different types of STRs and different ways to get into this business. Which is another one of the reasons why I love this business to your point is like there are sort of lower barrier to entry, right. Like you don't always have to have a huge amount of capital or you know, need to take out a huge loan.

So have you dabbled in any of those sort of other types of ways to get into short term rental? What's your perspective on sort of like how people should consider that? Which type people consider?

Well.

So I guess I got started with small multifamily apartment buildings and those were what I was investing in as long term rentals too. And so it was a little more familiar with me. But not just any small multifamily property. Right. To be a good short term rental, it has to attract someone that wants to stay there. And so most all my properties are historic properties and they're in midtown areas, hence the name of my company, Midtown Stays. And these are areas that are between downtown and the suburbs. And so most of the time you could characterize a midtown area as an area that is near restaurants, it's near entertainment, it's walking distance to a lot of places. You don't necessarily need a car. And now with Uber, you know, you can just take a quick, quick Uber ride. So those are the kind of areas that I was looking and those are traditionally a little more expensive than maybe a suburb would be. And so you got to factor that in. But for me, I've been able to find really good returns there and also still have that backup plan that I can put long term tenants in there because most of the properties I've acquired had long term tenants in there already. But then you've got the. All the other end of the spectrum. Right. And what most people think about when they think about a short term rental and that is a vacation rental, you know, on the ocean or you know, a cabin in the woods. And I do have, I have property in Brazil that's right near the ocean.

And sign me up.

Yeah, I love it down there. I've been spending about half the year down there for the last last few years and it does really well as a vacation rental. But a vacation rental versus an urban short term rental is totally different. There's, you know, the vacation rental for example, very likely going to be more seasonal most of the time versus an urban area where is in a bigger city. I also like to be in slightly bigger cities because if the city's slightly bigger, there's more reasons people are going to go to that city. You know, whether they're visiting family, whether they're there for work, whether they're exploring, living in a new place, like maybe they're just moving to a new state or if it's for medical reasons. So there's the more reason to person has to go stay in a specific market, the less risky I think that that is. As long as you have a good backup plan, I guess. So, yeah. Gosh. And then everything in between there, you've got yurts, you've got giant potatoes and all that stuff. So it's almost impossible to lump short term rentals just under one category and say yes they're risky or yes they're oversaturated or it's, it's like, it's, it's almost. To me, it's like I do have a background in commercial real estate, so I used to be a broker which is essentially commercial real estate. We call ourselves brokers versus a residential real estate, usually called an agent. Right. That's really.

Okay. Okay. I was going to ask you to break that down for me. I was like, help the lay people such as myself understand.

Yeah. That that's all it is. I mean, it's, it's basically just another name. But we're working with commercial properties, so I worked with apartment buildings and shopping centers and, you know, warehouses and I learned a lot, a lot working on that team that was in Northern California. We just analyzed properties and so really, really good experience. But it's almost like, you know, all those different types of real estate investments, they're all real estate, but they're all different. Just like all short term rentals are all real estate, but they're all different based on a whole bunch of things. So.

I kind of just went on a rant there. I don't know if it was a great rant.

I love that rant. It absolutely answered my question. And again, I just love that you're sharing some of your wisdom because of course, that's what the intention of the podcast is, is to give people some insider knowledge from people that have just done really innovative things in this space. And so this sort of Midtown unlock for you, this ability to have real estate that's flexible, this ability for you to leverage sort of your background in real estate, commercial real estate, and how you would analyze an area sounds like that all sort of created a great trifecta for you.

I know this, this is always like the potentially a third rail topic, but just when you, when you mention Midtown, of course the first thing that comes to mind for me is regulation. So I'd love to know how you're sort of weathering the regulation storm. You know, what advice would you have to give? You know, somebody like me who's maybe like, oh, Midtown, that makes a lot of sense. I actually, I have a property in Midtown I could try to rent out right now, but do I want to deal with the regulation component?

Yeah.

And super important one. Right. If we're, if we're investing in a short term rental that we can't legally operate, then it's not, not going to work out too well. So that is a big one. And every market's different. Right. So every Midtown area is going to be different based on the city or the state's regulations. But as we know, regulations usually come down almost to neighborhood level, or a lot of times they do on a neighborhood level. Some of the things I like about Midtown areas, in terms of regulations is that a lot of times they're sort of mixed zoning. So. So it's not fully suburban, like a suburban neighborhood where everyone's just living there. You're not living next to a restaurant or a liquor store or whatever it happens to be. And it's also not downtown where it's super dense and a lot of times the housing is so expensive or there's a shortage of housing in the urban area to where the restrictions are quite as tight. So it's in a. Usually it's in like a mixed area where. And again, also not being next to a lot of longtime neighbors or maybe a few, but you know, it's kind of scattered. You have less neighbor issues and that can be, you know, a deal breaker out in a neighborhood if someone's lived there for a long time. So that's part of it.

Yeah. So some of my properties have commercial zoning which doesn't necessarily allow that allow me to rent them as a short term rental if it was regulated there. But it does make it easier for me in the future to apply for a transient occupancy license if I wanted to.

Got it. Okay.

I would say just, you know, it really comes down to the market, though. Like, you don't want to go in a market and invest in short term rentals where you can't legally do it. And you also. I would say it's probably more risky too to go into a market that doesn't have any rules set up because you never know when they can change them. So I think it's best to be in a place that's already got rules set up. And a lot of times I've found that those are areas that have less of a housing shortage supply issue, like San Francisco, Manhattan, Seattle, these types of places.

Right. No, that makes total sense. And I think that's something that, like, we certainly are galvanized around over here to a certain extent because it does help. Right. Like if the regulations already in place, there are rules. I think we all just want a level playing field. Right. So like, if we know what the rules are, we want to pay our taxes, we want to have consistency with hotels and other lodging, you know, avenues, then it is nothing but, you know, a benefit to the entire community.

So I think that's great wisdom. Well, what. So turning that sort of on the other side, I would love to know, because you are giving me such great advice and giving our audience such great advice, if you had any advice for people that have been operating for quite a few years now. They've sort of seen the business sort of grow pretty extensively. Before COVID obviously. Covid hit.

We.

We thought that was going to be a huge hiccup. It ended up not being a huge hiccup. Right. It almost ended up having the opposite effect. Listings have grown quite extensively. I think quite a few people have sort of jumped on the bandwagon, so to speak, of short term rental investment.

I think you and I both were talking about Airbnb bust here a few minutes ago. So what. Yeah. What's your hot take for people that are like maybe a little tenured and wondering what the future of short term rental, you know, operating and investing looks like?

Well, I am. Yeah. A lot of cash. A lot of rabbit holes we could go down here.

Sorry.

I think one of the most exciting things for me is that people are living in short term rentals now. So it's not just that we're traveling. I just mentioned I sold my property here in Colombia and I'm staying in an Airbnb right now for a couple months while I'm working on another investment here. So I'm living in this Airbnb. And it's not just me. Lots and lots of people are. And we've seen the average reservation length grow just across the board. Right. So I think that's one of the most exciting pieces for me and I've been exploring that more this act, this, this midterm stay.

Versus a short term one. Also, another way that most of the time you can get around regulations, because most time regulations regulate you or your property if it's a short term rental, which the definition changes a little bit, but it's pretty much 30 days. So if you're renting more than 30 days, you could do that even in a city that doesn't allow short term rentals. Right. Because it's not a short term rental anymore. And so that's. There's some really good opportunity there.

Gosh. Like, it's so many ideas in my head. I just. I know.

Well, I was like, I just gave you the broadest topic in the world, which is what advice?

Yeah, the Airbnb bust. So I would say if we go back to midterm rentals for a little bit, again, that's going to depend on the type of property you have. Someone, in my opinion, is not going to want to live in a large potato. We've seen that potato on Airbnb. Right. So it's not going to want to live there for three months.

I don't think But I don't think it has a window.

No.

Yes.

Yeah. So different types of properties are going to lend themselves to longer types of reservations. And.

While, you know, a lot of, during COVID a lot of people went out and they bought with short term rentals, they bought vacation rentals and nice luxury properties.

Okay. Yeah.

And for me, my opinion, you know, we're in some rocky economic times here. And during rocky economic times, especially with inflation high and a lot of the middle class getting squeezed and not having as much purchasing power.

Yeah.

I think it's, it just makes sense that less people are going to be spending high, high.

Amounts of money on travel. So I could see, I think that that sector of short term rentals will get hurt more than the urban type properties, for example, that someone might want to live in. But another side of that too, you know, as interest rates go up and less people are able to afford to buy properties, every little point that the interest rate goes up, less people can buy properties and it's, they've gone up a lot. Right. And so all those people are renting or staying with family. And so that, that creates more demand on the rental side, which can be good for short term rentals as well. And if someone was hanging around waiting, you know, waiting for the short term or for the interest rates to go down because they want to buy a property, then maybe they are staying in a short term rental for three months or so, but they, they might not be staying in a luxury villa that costs $10,000 a night.

Yeah, I think that's such a good takeaway. And again, I think it comes back to sort of that core component of what I'm seeing in your strategy, which is the diversification. Right. Sort of like having a plan A, a plan B, like having that flexibility in your portfolio and what you're investing in, so that if you need to pivot based on what's happening in the economy or what's happening with travel demand, you, you know, certainly makes it a little bit easier for you if you have that diversification. So I think that's great advice, Tim.

If I could just add one thing though, Brian. For those of, for those like when we're investing in property, we really need to know what it is that we want. Right. We have to have our own investment philosophy. Is it to just make passive income so I can go travel the world? And in the short term rental space, a lot of short term rentals are second homes for people. And so for anyone out there that can fully afford their second home as a short term rental and maybe 60% of their decision to buy it was personally based, then that's great. They can buy, they can buy a vacation home. They can also make money off of it. But for those out there that are looking to just find the best returns and the most secure returns, you know, there's certain types of properties I think that'll be less. Less risky.

I love that. That's a great addition.

Well, Tim, I mean, first of all, you. I was listening to your podcast. You also have a podcast, so. Big shout out to Short Term Rental Riches by Tim Holt.

Thank you very much.

So my loaded question for you, my friend, is what is the biggest fail you can make as an Airbnb host? You just covered this topic and I think people need to know. People need to know.

Yeah. So, yeah, thanks for bringing up. The podcast has been a lot of fun. This is the third year now and they're just bite sized, actionable episodes. And yeah, if you just listen to one. Recently I talked about what I think is the biggest fail, an epic fail, really. And it just happened to me as I was in Europe staying at another Airbnb is when an Airbnb host.

When a guest going to an Airbnb can't get in, that is, that is the epic fail. If your guests cannot get into a property and no one's there to help you get in, that's. That's a. That's a fail. So that happened to me, unfortunately, one night in Bulgaria a couple months ago. It was middle of the night. I luckily had a good friend there that lived nearby and he had a spare bedroom, so I went and stayed with him. But that is the worst. That's the biggest fail in terms of hosting. But there's other things we can do in terms of actually investing that are would be very epic fails too.

I like all these cheat codes. Yeah, that's a really good one. We do have somebody on our team from Bulgaria too. So that happens again. We'll just have Alex call his family. We'll figure it out. Like, don't worry, we got you covered.

It's good to be connected. Good to be connected.

It absolutely is.

Well, Tim, I have so, so enjoyed getting to know you. I like to end these interviews with just a little game we play at the end. So it's who, what and where? The first question is besides yourself, of course. Course. Who would you recommend new people that are new to this business, listen to for advice?

Good question and really important question, so. But a hard one to answer because there are so many good resources now with YouTube and podcasts. So I would say if I can just give a few.

Absolutely.

The real estate guys radio, they've been around for over two decades and I love their podcast because they talk about all different types of real estate and they also bring in some macroeconomics and stuff like that. So it's a very well rounded podcast and they're solid guys. Really good advice for macroeconomic advice, which I think is just really important right now. George Gammon is fantastic. He also happens to live here in Medellin most of the time, so he can go very deep on macroeconomics. So maybe not one of the channels you want to Speed up to 1 1/2 times.

But really good advice. When I was first getting started, I listened a lot to Jason Hartman out. I also think he has really good advice. He doesn't talk so much about short term rentals, mainly focused on long term single family residences. But he talks a lot about markets and making sure you're in the right markets. So those are good advice.

A couple books. There's one called Emerging Markets, which is a fantastic book that talks about markets because they're always changing. Right. So yes, that's a good one. I'll stop there. I could go on for forever, but those are a few good.

Add some more to the show notes. We'll just be up the show notes with them. I love it. Thank you. Those are all great. Now I know what I'm listening to on the way home today. All right, the next one is a what question. So what do you wish you knew before you got started in this crazy short term rental business?

What I wish I knew before I got started in the short term rental business. Hmm.

This is a tough one.

I guess. You know, my very first few short term rentals were very. I did a lot of renovations and I guess I wish that I knew that I didn't necessarily. You can add a lot of value to properties if you're doing the renovation, but that's a lot of work, can be a lot of stress and especially if you're in a market that you don't know anyone and you're starting over. So I guess I would say that there are lots of opportunities that fit more with your specific investment philosophy. So if you don't want to spend a lot of work or do the construction or do anything like that, that there are other opportunities that are going to fit more in line with what you want. So I'd make sure if I was doing it over again, I Would spend more time thinking about exactly what it was that I wanted out of it and look for opportunities that fit that better.

I love that. I love that concept of coming up with an investment philosophy. Right. Or an investment thesis. Like this is the intention. This is what I want to get out of this effort. And this is sort of how I will proceed from a tactical perspective. All right, all right. Just one more for you.

What I love about real estate is like, we all wish we had the crystal ball to know where we should have invested.

So where do you wish you had invested when you got started that maybe you didn't, you didn't invest in? It could be the place you did invest. Maybe you nailed it.

The marks, they've done, you know, they've done pretty well up until now. But I guess I would probably just go back and look at where the biggest returns were, which I could say pretty confidently are probably most of them in either Florida or Texas. But again, it comes down to the individual market and then really the individual neighborhood, because you could have two neighborhoods right next to each other. And again, I don't like to invest for appreciation, but if I had this crystal ball, I like to invest just for cash flow, make sure things make sense when I buy them. But if I could go back with crystal ball, I would look for the highest appreciation. And that's surely probably in, you know, certain parts of Texas and Florida and you know, like the Nashville's or Austin. Those places just really, really blown up.

I love that. Yeah, that's where it's always like. So like I went to school in New York and I'm always like, why didn't I make my dad buy like a loft in Williamsburg, Brooklyn before Williamsburg, Brooklyn was a place that people wanted to live. Yeah, like just a warehouse. That would have been fine anyways. Oh my gosh, Tim, I've had so much fun getting to know more about you. I'm sure I'm not the only one that wants to hear more from you. So where can folks find you if they'd like to get more of this great advice from you?

Thanks for having me on. It's been a lot of fun. Well, I have a podcast, Short Term Rental Riches, and you can find it on all the podcast outlets. And then I have a website with a lot of additional free resources, software that I use, and a free ebook on what I think makes the best market for investing in short term rentals. And that website's restmethods.com.

Love it.

Either one.

Love it. Awesome. All right, well, we'll definitely put those in the show notes. And just big congratulations to you. It sounds like you've been able to sort of fulfill your dream of a life lifetime of travel and getting to enjoy all the best parts of life. So I love that philosophy that you also have as part of your investment strategy.

Oh, and thanks again for everything you guys do, because your data, you know, investing comes down to data, and you guys do a really good job at making that data accessible. So thank you for that as well.

I love that. Well, I think it always makes me happy to hear because that is, of course, our mission is, is to make that data accessible to everyone and really democratize the opportunity that short term rentals provides for folks. So appreciate the shout out, Tim. Thank you so much.

Thank you. Yeah. Until next time. Ciao.