Going Viral By Redesigning Canva Logos Featuring Super Lunar Design Co.

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Welcome to the Unapologetic Designer podcast where we chat controversial design topics and expose the raw truth about life as a designer.

Welcome back to the podcast. I have a special guest today who I'm literally just talking to for like, the first time ever. So, Christina, do you want to further introduce yourself?

So, I'm Christina Hall. I'm the owner of Super Lunar Design Co, which is a branding and web design company. And I'm super excited to be here. Thank you for having me.

So since I, like, know nothing about you outside of seeing your, like, canva redesign videos that I think are hilarious and also your comment section is just fun to look through, which we could talk more about that in a second. But can you share more about, like, how you got into design and like, your background?

I. I got into graphic design. I went to college for graphic design with a focus in web design. So I did it like the good old way that people expect you to. And I'm still a little bitter about it, but it's okay. So I actually, like, when I was a kid, I have a video about this that went super viral actually. And I, I took it off because I felt like it wasn't attracting the right audience. But when I was little, I actually like almost hacked a website called Neopets and stole thousands of the currency in the thing. And my dad found out what I was doing and was like, don't ever do that again. So I've been really into web design and building since then, 12. And when I was little, when I was like, I was a smart kid when I was younger, up until fourth grade, and when I would finish like my test before everyone else, I would, like, my time spent would be copying like posters on the walls, like those cute elementary school posters. So I've always been extremely artistic and then also very technology inclined. So it just made sense for me to go into like digital graphic design of some sort. And I really love everything, I really love branding and just the way it connects with people and it's not just making pretty things. And then of course, websites has always been a passion of mine, so that's how I got into everything.

Did you like, work somewhere else before starting your own business or like, what was your path to becoming an entrepreneur?

Oh, yeah. So when I graduated college, my first job, I, first of all, I refused to get any job that wasn't in my industry because at the time it was so common for people to like, get a job at a bank or something until they found their dream job. And I was like, I refuse, like went into debt waiting to find a good job that was actually in the field I studied in. So my first job was for an app company and I was there, it was a startup and I, I was there digital marketing and graphic design associate. So I was doing essentially everything from building their website in WordPress, creating graphics. I would do all of their social media, which like doesn't. Was not really supposed to be my job description, but startup life. And I eventually moved up because I could code because I had been doing it for like 15 years at that point. I eventually moved up and got promoted to be their, one of their front end designers and developers. That's an interesting story, but I'll give you the short version. I got laid off alongside like 20 other people because the CEO and COO committed securities fraud. So that was a super fun way to start my career.

Oh my God, what does that even mean, security fraud?

I like, I think I'm allowed to talk about it, but I'm not naming any names or anything. But they essentially like they were being investigated by the sec like when I was hired, just nobody knew about it for like their past job. And because they both. There was so much nepotism, but they were both from the same company. And then they moved on to start a company together and hired a bunch of people from the old company. So again like just.

Yeah.

And basically at the old company they, they created like a scheme of selling. I won't mention what it is, but like selling a huge part of their business for like a lower cost than they were documenting it for. And so they were like bluffing on how much money they were actually worth and lying to investors.

Okay, yeah, you got laid off and then where did life take you?

I was so at the time I had been doing. I got into this from an ex boyfriend. We don't need to talk about him. But I was actually already like doubling my income, which was not very high, not very hard to do. But I was doubling my income doing branding, social media graphics and resume design for the motor, like off road motorsports. So that was my first taste of like freelancing. So I did that until I found another job. And like my next two jobs were pretty like, you know, run of the mill. But I was front end designer and user experience designer for my next two corporate jobs. So yeah, I had always been doing that sort of like freelancing gig because it was easy money, so that was good monthly income. But when Covid hit that all shut down. So that was kind of what sparked me Starting to freelance, that was like going to be my way out. And my goal was to make enough money that by the time they wanted us back in the office, I could quit, which didn't happen, but at the time at least, but it was, that was kind of my start into starting my own business and taking things a bit more seriously.

And when you like went full time, were you having like consistent clients or like what was your income like?

It was, it wasn't great, but I was in a pretty good spot. My, my boyfriend's me army, so we were splitting rent and I had saved.

Up quite a bit.

So it was.

I can't even remember where I was at, but it was like I. It was scary, but it was fine.

So.

So I think that's kind of why I was just like rolling on a, on a hunch that I could do it.

Yeah, I was kind of the same way. Like I graduated fully self employed and I had some money saved because I had been working like since high school part time and like I had some money back there because I had gone to school on a loan. So like that I graduated right before COVID So like after I graduated I only made 20, 20 grand my first year full time. But then like every year it started like increasing more and more and more. I'm curious to know, how much did you make your first year full time?

Oh, probably only like 35 or 40,000.

Which isn't bad. But I was living in California at the time, so it was bad.

It was bad for them.

Yeah, it was bad for California.

Well, I like that you share that because I think for a lot of newer designers, if they go full time and they don't hit like half of six figures, they feel like they have to go get a part time job. And it's like, I think during that first year is where you build a lot of resilience as an entrepreneur because you're probably not going to hit your revenue goal and like trying to stay, stick through it and like have faith in yourself and like just pushing yourself to do everything you can to get your next client is like what propels you for future success. Because my second year I doubled or tripled. I don't even know. I like quadrupled maybe what I made. And then like my third year I hit six figures. So I. Did you have like a similar experience?

Yeah, so actually like I was working alongside, like I was doing like burning the candle at both ends thing because I worked for a really long time in tandem with my full time job because I was working fully remote and I was like, matching my income. And that was really freaking cool to see. But it was also scary to be like, okay, now do I quit and then lose half of my income? And that's the thing is, like, I actually didn't do as well, and it was scary. But I purchased a course.

I.

Or not a course, a membership with a business coach, which I think has already. I mean, the information I learned from that, which I feel like not a lot of creatives tend to think about, like, their. Their creative business.

We talk about that actually in the last episode. We talked about that a lot. But, like, that's one of the main issues is, like, creatives can be so good at what they do. They can make great work, but if they aren't willing to push themselves to learn the business side of things, there's going to be somebody else who's probably not doing as good of work but is succeeding more because they're learning that side of business.

Like, I don't even feel I'm the world's most amazing designers. I don't think I'm as amazing as I could be. But I have always had a knack for speaking to people, and it's always been so. I'm a very competitive person. And so, like, I view everything in a manner of, like, how can I win this? And through user experience, design, I learned, like, winning is like understanding the people and giving them what they want, basically. And that's what business is, essentially is like. And I talk about that so much on my content, on the strategy side of things. And yeah, like, I, like you said, like, I don't think creatives. I think that's where, like, the Starving Artist concept comes from, is because it's such a misconception, not even just for creatives, but to think that your work should speak for itself and it just doesn't work that way.

That's a really good point. I feel like a lot of creatives, they use the excuse, well, I'm an introvert and I'm not good at talking to people and I don't like networking. And it's like, well, I didn't either.

But I wanted my business, like, so.

Bad that I was willing to do that.

Exactly. Yeah. And it's. You have to want it. You have to want it enough. Like, it's never been a question for me. I like, even if it's like, oh, my God, like, I especially, like, after I've. I started those Canva redesign videos and, like, I started going really viral and getting good leads. I was talking, I was booking calls. I had four calls yesterday to talk to clients. And like, that's exhausting. And I cannot like it. It mentally drains me to talk to people so often and so many times. And you have to, your brain has to switch gears for their particular business each time. And it's so mentally exhausting. But that's how I close a sale. Like, that's how I put bread in my cabinet. So like you, there's never been a moment where I'm not like, no, I don't want to learn how to sell better. I don't want to learn how to market better. So I think you have to really want it.

Yeah, I feel like a lot of people think that they want it, but the reality is most people don't want it bad enough to do what they have to do. Especially as a design coach, I've seen that countless times. Like, I can identify after working with someone for multiple months as like a design coach and them being my student or having multiple students, I can see who wants it bad enough and who doesn't have that thing within them that they need to propel forward. Because, like, I think it's almost something that you're born with and if you don't have it, it can't really be forced.

Yeah, I was talk. I remember when I was really struggling, like, with my business before I, like, got a coach and everything and learned the business side of things, I was like, I know my. I was talking to my boyfriend. I was like, I know my life would be easier if I just quit my job and found, like, I was good at finding, like, I more than doubled my income with each new job I got. And when I was in the corporate world, I was good at doubling my income. When I quit a and got a new one, and I was like, I know I could easily get six figures and like, just apply for another job, but I don't, like, I don't know what I would do when I'm not working. And like, I'm even really into fitness. Like, I go to the gym and stuff and I have hobbies, but, like, it's like, my brain needs to be occupied by that, that like, all encompassing entrepreneurial thing. I can't, like, not do it.

Yeah, it's kind of like.

That'S funny you say you go to the gym. Because I go to the gym too, and I'm really into fitness too. And I. People will be like, why do you work so much? Or like, because I have so much going On I can barely make time for people. And like, the women I know in real physical reality, like, a lot of my friends that really get me are from the Internet. And like, the ones that I know in my life on a daily basis have so much time to like go hang out during the week. And like, they're always planning little events and things like that. And I'm like, I can do one event a month. Yeah, maybe one hangout a month. And like, that's my max. Because I have so much entrepreneur. Entrepreneur. I can. You know what I'm saying? I know like, stuff going on that I don't have that same mentality. It's almost like a different way of living.

It feels like a waste of time. Almost like, not to say that like hanging out with people you care about is a waste of time, but like, I know what you mean. I'll be sitting there and being like, oh my God, like, I could be updating my, like on the weekends. My happy place is waking up really, really early on a Saturday and like optimizing my automations for my business. And like, that's my. I can't wait for the weekends to do that. And it sounds absurd that I can't wait to like, because it's. No one's messaging me or emailing me and I'm not expected to post. And I'm like, I can just wake up in the morning and drink coffee and do this stuff for my business. And it's. It's funny because that's how I'd rather be spending my time. Of course I need to like, be around humans and stuff. I get that. But it really is, it's like a part of you.

Yeah, I have to make a conscious effort to like, plan time for me to do social events or like, do other things on the weekend that like, don't involve business. And now I'm much better at it than I was when I had first started. How long have you been running your business?

I have technically.

Like full time by myself. It has really only been since like, well, January of this year.

Okay, so do you think that at some point because. And here's something else, one of our employees at the Brief Collective, she recently became full time and she was working like all the time, working weekends. And we're like, you need to make time for yourself. Do you feel like you're approaching a point where you're gonna start, stop doing that on weekends because it's going to cause you to burn out?

I. So that's a really good question. And it's something actually, like, I don't want to tell myself that the weekend cannot involve work if that's what's on my mind at the time. Because like I said, like, it's something I look forward to. It's not something I feel like I have to do or I'm like almost compulsed to do out of anxiety, which don't get me wrong, I'm compulso a lot of things for my business out of anxiety. But. But that stuff is like, I look forward to it now. I do like limit myself. Like this weekend I was like, you can work until 10:30 in the morning and then you have to do like chores and go out of the house and like walk the dog and stuff. But.

I don't know, like, I would actually love to not think of my work week as like Monday to Friday. And then the weekends are for enjoying my. I want to look at every day as like an opportunity to do whatever I want, basically. And if that's work, I want to be okay with that and not feel guilty about it.

Yeah, I feel like that's actually a really big thing in our society is if you work on the weekends, people make you feel shameful about it. And I think that if that is what you enjoy and like that's what you feel like doing and that's what makes you happy, then you should do that thing. It just so happens that for other people, the thing that makes them happy is going to the park with their kids and letting their kids have a playdate. Like, you know, but our society use it so differently because our society views work as a whole as something negative. Whereas for a lot of entrepreneurs, it's something that they enjoy.

Yeah. And. And that's the thing too is it requires a lot of self awareness. Like I will physically realize when I'm starting to feel like, oh, I've been sitting on my couch, like I've gone into a loop. I've been sitting on my couch for six hours straight working on something, anything, a hundred things. And it's. I'm like, it's a Saturday, Christina. Like, come on, have a little fun. But like, I. I think improving my self awareness has really helped with that.

Yeah. And I have also been trying to incorporate, kind of going back to what you said is like, you don't want to just have like Monday through Friday work and then weekends are for enjoyment. Like incorporating the fact that I am an entrepreneur. So any given day I can do anything I want and I make my own schedule. So If I want to work Sunday, I can work Sunday, or if I want to have more free time Monday, I can do that. And I just had an employee for the day in my office yesterday and we had like a nice long lunch break, we went for a walk and then afterwards we like worked out together and it was literally like friend time combined with getting work done. And it was a really cool, like collaborative experience of those two things coming together.

Yeah, my, yeah, that's my dream is just to have a very fluid schedule and like, of course, like I have to give myself deadlines for sure. But I mean, as long as I'm hitting them, I don't care what I'm doing in between.

Exactly. And so your Canva videos, that's how like I first saw your profile and like saw you and I was like, yeah, podcast guest.

What, what made you think of doing that video first of all, like your first Canva redesign video. And then what have you felt like having the reactions that you've had? Because I've gone through the comment section and like your comment section is ruthless.

Is so like, I do a lot of talking to people in my videos and I really couldn't find my groove with doing the designing on camera thing. I could never remember to record while I was designing. It's such a pain to like actually record your like, what, six hour stretch of designing something and then cropping it down to like actually the bits and pieces that are interesting. And so I couldn't bring myself to do it. It felt like a time suck. But one day I actually went live on TikTok and was like, I'm gonna just show you guys how much better you can make a Canva logo as a professional without even trying. Because like you and I know brand design is intensive. It takes a lot of time to get it right in communication and you'll ideate like a whole frickin brand and then realize it doesn't work, have to do it all over again. And so it was kind of like a. If I can do this in 20 minutes, imagine what I can do on a real brand project. And on the other side of the coin, like canvas my Canva logos. Not Canva in itself, because I love Canva for like marketing use, but Canva logos and the way they present them to people and the way they're marketed to business owners, I think is predatory.

Because I've literally said something along the same lines.

They don't realize the impact of branding, they don't realize how cheap they look. Like if I'm being honest. And it's predatory to present and be like, look, you can make your logo in five seconds and it's not going to bite you in the ass later. Like, and it's just not true. So everyone knew at that point. Everyone who followed me was like, she hates canva logos. So I was like, why don't I just stack one extra layer on this and show them like, how much better a canva logo can look even with extremely minimal effort. And so that's kind of how they were born. And one of them took off on Instagram, actually way more than it did on TikTok. And I started getting really qualified leads from it, which is surprising because you would think it would target mostly canva users who most likely or usually wouldn't be in my price range. But it like really struck a chord with some people and they're like, wait, like, all of that made so much sense. And I was like, this is actually something that can generate leads for me, like on a sales side. And then also I just. The comment section, oh my gosh. You know, everyone's a professional on the Internet. But it's so funny the amount of people who. My favorite things are the people who think this is a real brand when they watch me screenshot it off of Canva and they're like, you didn't even do what the customer wanted. And I'm like, there isn't a customer.

This is me playing around for a couple hours. And like, of course I have to limit myself, right? Like, I can't spend hours and hours on content creation. So I'll usually just end up putting out like the least worst thing that I created in a two hour span. And like one of the one that went really, really viral, I was trying to make a cake slicer and it looks like those like fancy cheese slicers. And everyone was like, it's a cheese slicer. I buy cheese.

Doesn't that piss you off?

I'm like, dude, chill.

Like, it's just like, you know, you, you know, you understand that's. You commented on my video with the crochet thing.

Yeah, the.

Okay, so I knew they were going to react like that. So that's why on Tik Tok, I presented the video the way I presented it, because I was like, I know they're to say something about this, so let me just go ahead and address it instead of being on the side of like, oh, I didn't know well.

And it's also like genius marketing tactic. We know the more information or the More like engagement we get, the more our content is going to get pushed out. So it's almost worth it. Like, I. Oh, my gosh. I didn't even do this on purpose. I'm like a lazy Midwesterner, so I pronounced Godiva chocolate Gadiva because I'm an idiot, right? So whatever. Like, no one's pronounced it correctly in front of me, so what am I to know? But the, like, a big bunch of commenters were people just commenting on the fact that I mispronounced that. And I was almost like, I didn't do it on purpose. But now I'm going to say something stupid in every video so that I get more comments and engagement. So it's. It's funny the way it works out. And even the people. Like, my comment section will be full of people who hate it. But I'm still growing and getting inquiries, and that video in and of itself has made me, like, multiple five figures already. So I think that's something too. Like, being in the TikTok space, it's so vulnerable to post your work as a designer. And, you know, you're supposed to have thick skin as a designer anyways, because critique is part of the process, but doing it on social media is, like, just a whole other level. So I'm really glad that I do have that thick skin because my sister saw some of the stuff that they commented. She's like, I would be crying. I was like, no, it's funny at.

This point, yeah, the. That crochet video, I positioned it differently on Instagram because I feel like there's a different audience. And now that it's, like, taking off, it's at, like, 65,000 views, and I think it's brought in a few new inquiries here recently. But on Instagram, I got a lot of good comments. And then anybody that said it reads like Cratchit, I just deleted their comment and blocked them because I was like, that's not the vibe for Instagram. You can do that on TikTok, though.

Where I asked on TikTok for sure. That's funny because for a while my nicer audience was on TikTok and the mean people were on Instagram. And it has. But I. I also, like, amassed a pretty good following on Instagram for being on Instagram for such a. Like, I'm. I mean, I've been on it, but I didn't take it seriously until maybe like, four months ago. So it's grown pretty rapidly since then. And now that I have that audience of people who actually like me. It's much nicer. But when you go viral on TikTok, you're really exposed to, like, just everyone. People who are just angry and, like, you can tell they just hate the world. They're taking it out on you.

I see that you have the Instagram subscribe feature. How many subscribers do you have?

Oh, my God, I just started it, so, like, probably five. It's not. It's not great. Well, I'm trying to, like, I want to. Eventually people have asked me, me to do like, a course on brand strategy, and I don't think I want to do a course, but I'm like, almost piloting a membership because I feel like strategy is like a big, ambiguous beast that business owners don't really understand. Like, they hear about it, but it's really common that they don't understand what it is. And I think even when they get strategy points, like, they know what their mission statement is and who their target audience is, I don't feel like they effectively know how to use it then afterwards. So I'm kind of working on a membership for that and I'm like, testing it out in my Instagram subscribers because it feels like an easy, lightweight way to do that.

Yeah. I just started the subscribe feature on the Brief Collective account after I had an incident with somebody, like, doing some outlandish things after I posted a video because I'm so transparent. So I was like, well, you know what? Let me just turn on the subscription feature and it'll be a good little, like, recurring revenue thing for people who care about that extra content. And the only reason I was asking, because I don't see a lot of people use that feature.

No, it's. I don't think it's, like, really picked up. But I was like, you know what, I'll just. I don't care if nobody joins it. It'll be like a nice little test phase of, of what I plan on doing in the future.

Yeah. And it's like you're. You're already creating content anyways, so it's like really easy to just. Just.

Right. It gives you an opportunity too, to, like, talk longer and, like, those people are more likely going to listen and actually get value from it. So if I've. I've given value to five people, that's fine.

So what type of clients do you typically work with?

Oh, that's a good question.

So.

And I do this on purpose and a lot of my contents around this, but I'm obviously, like, very bold and brash I have a very direct tone of voice. People think I'm yelling on TikTok. It kind of really is just the way I talk. I don't know how it's going to sound on this podcast, but it's. It's just the way I talk. I'm very direct. I don't. I don't like to think I'm actually an. But I know it can come across.

As rude to people.

But most of the people, like, I don't. I have a lot of photographer followers, but I've only worked with two so far. But I get really interesting clients. Like, I don't want to drop what they're doing because some of them are in, like, the beginning phases. But every project, I'm like, that's so freaking cool. I would have never thought of that. And.

But I like the. The common denominator is all of them love how direct I am. And they're like, no, I want some, like, I know you're not gonna lie to me. I know you're not gonna, like, bullshit me. And that's what I think is the best part about, like, people disliking my personality is I will only attract people who are like, I want to work with that girl. She sounds cool. She sounds like she's not gonna lead me astray, and I. And I won't. So it's really cool. I. I don't think I've attracted a single, like, customer who just straight up would never work with my personality, which is awesome that, that, like, TikTok and Instagram can help me qualify people that way.

I feel like you are probably one of the very few designers I know that I would say niches almost by personality type, because that's actually what I do. So, like, people always think that you have to do, like, by industry or by style. And I'm like, no, you can do it by personality type. And that's how I always work with different industries, is because I'm targeting people based on, like, personality and values.

Exactly. Yeah. I can't tell you how many people comment on my stuff. And, like, you're marketing yourself all wrong. You come across so arrogant and rude and no one would work with you. And I'm like, okay, tell my books that, like, let me. Let's talk to my bank account and see if that's correct.

No, I saw one of the comments today when I was looking at your profile. It said, I don't think that on other business, marketing is a good strategy or something like that. And I was dead yeah, that's the.

Thing is, like, I don't actually on anyone. Like, especially the fact that these are not real brands. Again, like, none of it's real. We can all calm down.

Yeah, it's the Canva lovers. Canva lovers.

That's what it is. The best is too. Like, maybe this is a little catty, but the people who really come at me hard and are like, you don't know what you're talking about. I will look at their profiles and they have the most, like, classic Canva logo. And I'm like, okay, so you're just. It's just hitting you where it hurts. Then, like, I get it. I see where you're coming from.

Exactly. I. I have a lot of profiles on my stuff that are like, it's either men or a lot of times it's people who don't even follow me and I'm like, block. Don't ever look at my content again.

Oh, I block so hard. Like, if I just don't like the vibe, I will like, boom, you're blocked. I delete comments. I block comments.

I.

And, like, it's not to say, like, I don't delete or block, like, actual critique, because I think that's important. But if someone's just like, you sound like a piece of shit. I'm like, okay, blocked.

Do you find that most of your clients now are coming from Instagram or, like, what's your biggest lead generator? I think so. It very much ebbs and flows.

And it's interesting because I will take my top performing videos on TikTok and repost them on Instagram maybe like three days to a week later. And sometimes it will, like, do decently okay. On TikTok and then explode on Instagram, and sometimes it'll explode on TikTok and then not do that great on Instagram. So it, it depends on, like, the performance. Honestly, like, you can very much tell, like, oh, my notifications are blowing up now. I'm getting a lot of sales call bookings. Like, I know exactly where this is coming from, but I'd say it's a pretty even split.

What is your process like when working with a client? Like, what do you use? A project management system. I know you said you're big on automation. Can you share a little bit about that?

Yeah. So I'm. I don't have it in yet, but I'm working on an automation where, like, I literally push a button and it does the whole onboarding process without me doing anything else. And that's going to Be cool. I have, I use Trello as a project board, but I'm working on getting everything into like a client project dashboard on my actual website. So they'll log into my website and have contract invoice.

Their project board, link deliverables throughout, like the design process and all of that for them to see the most recent thing I've completed or whatever. And then I want them to have a chat feature with me also.

So that's what I'm working on right now. It's not quite where I want it to be, but everything's going to be super automated there. But as far as my client process goes, like for a brand design project, let's say they get strategy and design. I'm booked out through September right now. So it's first I like have they have to wait until their date actually comes. I invite them to their project board and then they have links to like schedule their strategy call. Kickoff is essentially the strategy call. I develop the strategy, turn it in, they give me feedback, I tweak, turn it in and then we start brand design. And I will start with usually three mood boards. They choose a path down the mood board. I'll design two concepts. I really can't help myself but design them like almost completely to where I think they're done. So I give them two pretty much full fledged concepts and they will then take a look, tell me which one they're moving towards, ask for tweaks. I give the tweaks, you know, then a little bit of back and forth until everyone's like this is great. And then I put it into a brand guidelines booklet for them and then I update the brand strategy document because I try to get them that as quickly as possible because it's so important, it's such important information. So I'll update both documents to be on brand for them and then get them their assets in those two documents. And that's how that works. It's very collaborative.

In your words, what would you say brand strategy is?

Oh, that's a good question. I think brand strategy is the key to understanding who you are as a brand and how that interacts with your customer.

A good explanation. I just feel like a lot of people over complicate what it means and then they also oversimplify it at the same time.

A short sentence that like, like actually made sense because it's, it's really important to me to explain things outside of like industry jargon and make sure it makes sense to most people. But it, it can be such a complex like beast. And it can, it can give you so much insight to so many different things and, and it's so. It's hard to really put it in one all encompassing sentence.

I think for me, I think what really helped me understand what strategy meant in terms of working with clients was the experience for customers and how that experience and those different touch points that they have impact their reputation and customer loyalty and all those different things that ultimately like, build up a brand's reputation and make them good.

Yeah. And that's something I try to tie it back to like their current reality. And so right now, like, I think most people relate to the fact they're like, I don't know what to say, I don't know what to post, I don't know what to put on out there. And like a brand strategy document I believe can tell you and guide you on how to show up. I say that a lot, like how to show up as a business, as a brand. Especially online these days, like, there's so much content out there.

A big problem is people walk away with like this really nice brand identity. They have a strategy, they have like values and things. But then when they go to implement it or maintain the consistency, that's where they go south, especially on social media because then they don't, they don't go hire the social media person and they want to do it themselves and then it ends up looking shitty or falling off the brand guidelines and the whole strategy that we as brand designers and strategists have provided for them. And it's like, what are you doing?

Oh my gosh. I just had, I love this client, but I just took a look at their website again because, like, you know, we go look at their stuff and see how it's faring out there in the wilderness. But they like updated some things on their site and I was like, no.

And it was, it's like, I don't know. And there's something like the. To be fair, I always empower my clients to not need me after I'm done working with them. Especially, especially my website clients, which is almost like a backwards way. Like most web designers and web design businesses will tell you to like latch them in as a monthly. But I hate doing that. I need, I need.

No, I'm the same way. That's like how you, that's how you get scammed. Really. That's scam selling. Yeah.

And I, and I, it's unfortunate that that's an edge of mine. Like, I will tell them, like, no, I'll Give you a library of videos of me showing you exactly how to do everything you have to do for your site.

But.

But on the same end, it's like if you're updating something big, I would hope that you reach out to me because you want to maintain the integrity of your brand and your website visuals. And when they don't, it's like heartbreaking because I look at it like, no, this could have been so easy. I could have done this in 15 minutes for you and it would have still looked good.

Is your name on your client websites?

On the ones that I like, yes. There are some. Oh my gosh, I just did one. I won't say anything about like their industry or who they are, but they wanted a 2010 website and like, there was no way around it. And I was like, okay, you know, I'll give it to you, but please, I didn't say this, but it was basically like, don't tell anyone I made this for you. It was painful. I had already signed them by the time I realized what they were looking for. And so I was like, crap. So, I mean, I went and built it, it was fine. I knew what to do. But I did not put my logo down in the footer. I didn't put created by. And I was basically like.

I didn't tell them this, but I think it was pretty clear. I was like, don't tell people I did this.

I have this one client right now. And I learned this lesson over and over. Like, I knew when they inquired, the industry wasn't really that much excited about and I should have been like, you know what? This isn't a good fit for me.

And I didn't.

And now I built this website that's just, I don't know, it's not exciting, it's not elaborate. I don't plan to share it on social media, don't plan to put it in my portfolio. And on top of that, even the most basic animations I've added because, you know, like, we're in 2023 at this time. They wanted no animation on anything. And I'm like, so you want a boring, basic website? Okay, got it.

Understood. Thanks. That's why I really want to.

I really want to start doing website templates. Not just to be more accessible, but for the people who really just don't, don't want the whole shebang, but still need like a nice sales driven designed website. I'm really playing with that idea. I need to carve out time for it. But I like it. It's tough to recognize that some people do just want stuff that looks bad.

It's like, oh my God, this person, this client, it got worse too. Like, I. They have their brand guidelines and like, the site was pretty much good. And then they send me the last round refinements and they're asking for some weird, like, put the image in a Polaroid and rotate it. And I'm like, this doesn't go along with your brand at all. It's gonna look weird, it's gonna look random, it's gonna look ugly. Yeah, but whatever, get out of my hair. I'm gonna do it. I'm tired of trying to make this good for you when you like ugly stuff. Like, I can't. And then it's scary.

Like, you know that your clients, if they're happy with your work, even if you're not happy with your work, they're gonna recommend you. And it's like, doesn't it just like make your skin crawl thinking about them showing their friend and like, look, Christina made this. And then their friend looks at it, is like, oh, they made that. Okay, cool. Glad you like it. And I'm like, no, it's such a, such a, like double edged sword. Like, do I, like, I can easily do this. I can make the client happy and I can make money, but do I want people to ever know I made this?

No.

And how do I stop them without being rude? Like, from telling anyone I ever worked for them.

I have this one client who, she still hires me for ongoing stuff here and there to this day. But something she did that killed me is that I told her to use like, I was like, put this mission statement at the top of your site and we're going to do this button here. And she requested for me to not do that. Wanted something else. So I go and do it. And then she asked for another designer on TikTok to review her website. No. And then they, they point out that specific thing and I'm like, are you effing kidding me? The thing that I told her to do that she didn't want to listen to me and do is now being critiqued by someone else. Yeah, that freaking sucks.

I. Oh my gosh. I have such a similar story. I actually just fired this client and I. I've been working with them for over three years. Ongoing. It was decent, like, sustainable income each monthly, each month. And I had to finally like cut it off because they were just not respectful. But they did the same thing. We had weekly calls and I had just redesigned their site. And I was like, I really think this image should be, like, your main hero image. It speaks to the customer. It shows them the experience they're gonna get. It shows them the transformation they're gonna get. And it's a beautiful image. And they were like, I don't know. I really don't want it associated with that. I don't think that's a good picture. I just want to see something really, really pretty. And so I switched it out and gave them what they wanted, basically. And they bought, like, a website service audit and this website service redesigned, like, the first three scrolls of your homepage or something to try to entice you to purchase their redesign. And she showed me the audit one day and was like, this is what they said. Can you please redesign the homepage to look like this? And it was exactly what I had been trying to do. And it used that image. They found it on another page of the site, pulled the image, and cited the same exact reasons I said for why it should be up there. And I was like, you are joking. And it's like, I don't know. It's just like, why'd you hire me if. If you don't think I'm the professional?

Did you address that?

I. I kind of jokingly and very tactfully was like, oh, interesting. They chose that photo. And, like, I had enough of a relationship with them that I was like, do you remember me, like, telling you that, like, in a joking way? She goes, yeah. Oh, my gosh, I should have listened to you. And I was like, okay. But it was still just, like, the fact that they went and got a website audit. And I was like, I aud I can audit your stuff for, first of all, cheaper than what they did because you pay me hourly. And second of all, like, what are you doing?

Well, it just makes you feel like crap. It's like, yeah. Not only are you being misrepresented because the client wanted things that you didn't recommend, but then it's also reinforcing the fact that obviously this person doesn't have enough confidence in you to trust your expertise, and they're going and seeking it out elsewhere. Like, I don't want to work with you or be your designer. If that's the case, like, go hire the other person that you are seeking advice from, since you appear to listen to them and not me. Yeah. No.

And that's something that's so common with business owners. Tell me if you've noticed this, especially with, like, difficult clients, but they come from such A almost micromanagement fear based mindset that they cannot let go of things. And that's when it crumbles and that's when it suffers. And when you meet those clients who are like, no, you're the professional, like you do what you think is best. Those are always the ones that thrive and succeed when they like release the power and like give. They're like, no, I, I know you're the professional here. I don't know what I'm doing. That's why I hired you.

And let me tell you the client that I was referring to a second ago about wanting the Polaroid thing, their refinements are so ridiculously organized and so detailed that it's actually like too much, which is what my employee for the day was doing yesterday. And I'm still so glad that I hired her and I didn't have to do it because just as an example, one of the things was on the FAQ section when they click one of the dropdowns and they click another one, the previous one should automatically close.

Oh my gosh.

And I, first off, I'm not doing that because it would require a bunch of code. And second off, that's actually bad. Like sometimes people want to have the questions open to compare them. Also accessibility issues, like why are you making such dumb, pointless changes? That's not going to impact somebody hiring you or not.

No, it's so crazy. And it's, it really is. Like you see it. I have a friend who does TikTok coaching and she has worked with like multimillion dollar entrepreneurs and she's like, it's so clear as day. The ones who are very successful just want to hire as many people to take care of the stuff that they are best at and they want to focus on like truly just like content creation. And then like they're, they're master within their business. And she's like the most successful people let go and hire good people and put their money where their mouth is essentially. So it's so interesting to see the people coming from that place of fear and like micromanagement and trying to be in control are actually shooting themselves in the foot.

Yeah, I've learned that as well as like being a designer but also having a second business. Like my co founder is the one that has like a whole agency and a whole team of people and now we've hired people at the Brief collective and like just being able to let other people work in their zone of genius and have like delegated tasks take not only so much like you know, work off your plate, but it also allows you to have extra energy because like even doing little tasks like that, like it takes away your energy. Like you were saying, even just like talking to people, like it takes so much energy. And as creatives we have to have that energy bar filled to be able to actually work.

Yeah, exactly. And it is, that's. I'm glad you brought that up because I feel like I don't want to, I don't know, like, say that what we do is harder than anything else. But it, there's something else you have to tap into in order to be creative. And it's, it is like it's energy draining as much as it is like amazing and fun and inspiring, but it's like another level of energy rather than just doing like admin tasks and stuff like that.

Yeah. And that's something else people don't understand about entrepreneurship. Like, average person from my experience that I know who has a 9 to 5, has more energy and wants to do more things because they show up to work and they get told what to do. Whereas in entrepreneurship we have to think about what we're going to do and then we have to actually do it. And like, we have to think about how we're going to benefit from the thing that we did. And like we have to think about all the working pieces. And that requires so much creative output that people don't understand how, yeah, we might sit in a chair, but it actually drains your energy that you physically have.

And then as a business owner, like prioritizing like what is the money maker among all of these things that I do, like, what needs to go first in order to like sustain the business and keep it running like a well oiled machine and all of that. And it's usually not the thing you really want to get started on.

Yeah, I can definitely relate to that. Well, it has been really good having you on. This was a great conversation. Where can people connect with you online?

So TikTok and Instagram are my main platforms. They're both at Super Lunar design and website is superlunardesign.com if you're interested in anything. I've. I haven't really talked about my packages, but go check me out and thank you so much for having me. This was truly such an awesome conversation.

Thanks for listening to this episode of the Unapologetic Designer podcast. If you'd like to submit your Unapologetic design opinions, head over to the link in my description to submit yours anonymously. If you'd like to support the podcast. You can follow our Instagram page, or you can sign up to make a monthly donation. I'll see you in the next episode.