MCC Coaching Demo with Debrief

Hello everyone, it is Susan Britton with the Academies and we are celebrating International Coaching Week, the ICF's International Coaching Federation's annual event. And today Carissa Gay is with us, who is one of our faculty members at the Academies, and we are going to be doing a live coaching demo in vivo. So Carissa, I'd love if you'd just take a minute and introduce yourself to Thanks, Susan.

It's such a pleasure to get to share this International Coaching Week with you. I'm Carisa Gay. I'm an MCC coach based in San Antonio, Texas. Founded my own company, Courageous Leaders, and it's also a privilege to be an instructor with the academies and get to be sending out coaches into the world to bring that connection and inspiration inspiration into organizations wherever they go.

Thank you. And I will say, to coach someone live with others listening is obviously an indication of your mastery and your commitment to this profession, and we are super grateful that you would do that today.

Well, likewise, for you as a leader to, to step just into the openness of coaching conversation. I'm looking forward to what unfolds here.

Yeah, and so that we can give people a bit of a roadmap for today, we will spend 45 minutes together. We'll have about 30 minutes for our coaching session, and then after that we will do some debrief. And we welcome you to participate and engage in the conversation, meaning that as Carissa is coaching me you can be listening for the ICF PCC markers as a way to be able to identify what coaching competencies are happening, which PCC markers are being demonstrated. And so in the background is one of our team members, Jessica Burdette, herself a PCC coach. She has popped in the ICF PCC markers, so there's a document that you can see there in the comments. Feel free to open that and keep an eye on that as you listen to the conversation, and then perhaps Perhaps when you hear something that Carissa says, you might say, ah, I think that's ICF PCC 3.4. So you could stick into the comments 3.4 when she said X very briefly. So we don't want to distract you, but if you'd like to kind of notice what's happening or be curious about what's happening, please do. All right, so Carissa, anything you want to add before we get started on the actual coaching session?

As you're listening, you know, pay attention to what might be unique about this conversation from an MCC perspective. MCC really focuses on coaching the whole person, so look forward to your observations of what stands out to you.

That's a good point. So even though we will be doing the debrief on the PCC markers, there are many people on the call that are aiming for MCC, and so if you're wanting to notice some of those things as well, please, please do. And I will just say that Carissa and I had a brief conversation. To be able to do a demonstration and keep it to 30 minutes took a little bit of planning to consider the space, the timing, etc., and those boundaries that, that we're working with. And so I do come to this conversation with a bit of an idea about what I want to have some coaching on. So, but that's as far as we've gone. So this should be very, very real. All right, so I'm going to take a deep breath and arrive and truly be here and be grateful that I get some coaching from a masterful coach. Thank you, Carissa.

Susan, it is a pleasure to have this time with you today. Where would you like to focus our conversation.

So I, I gave some thought to that, and I had mentioned to you that I am sort of in heading towards the final phase of my master's program, my executive master's in change that I'm doing with INSEAD over in France. And we're heading into thesis time, so we have our, our last of 8 modules, uh, in about a month. And then after that, we have 4 months to be able to write a thesis. And so that's been just feeling like it's kind of looming large for me, and I'm noticing a sort of kind of a, that red zone tension that's coming up for me around that.

Quite the adventure to be nearing the end of this thesis, France and all that, yet the thought of actually accomplishing it is, is looming large.

Yeah, it is. Um, it just feels like I live a very full life already, just as a human being, a manager of a company, a coach, a wife, a adult child mother, but, you know, and my own personal things. And it just feels like the vessel is pretty full already, and to try to put something more into it or make space for something more, it feels scary, actually.

Hmm. What is scary for you about this fullness with all these different roles?

I feel like I'm going to drop something and it's going to break. Um, I, I, I really notice, um, thinking, and I can feel it coming up as I even talk about it. Um, I don't like disappointing people. I feel an emotional responsibility towards doing my responsibilities, especially in, at the academies. And the reality is to be able to take time, as I've already experienced, you know, traipsing off to France, jet lag, all of those things, it's impacted my ability to be there and present for the team. Um, I, you know, in a way I feel like some of my responsibilities have slipped a little bit, and I'm, I'm just nervous that the thesis is going to be like steroids, um, during that, that 4-month period when I also feel very committed to this beautiful company that I love being in and running and being a part of the team and Yeah.

So there's a lot of responsibility that you carry for yourself, for others, for the company. And it seems like there's this tug of war. If I invest fully in the thesis, what's going to be the impact?

Yeah. Yeah, and I don't want it to be a war, you know. I, I— that is not how I like to operate. It's not like how, you know, I don't like to approach things with sort of a scarcity mindset. I want to walk my talk. Um, And so, but there's so much uncertainty associated with it in terms of like the topic. Do I have the right topic? And the amount of time that it's going to take to research and actually execute and write.

Um, yeah, but a lot of different threads here as you think about the thesis. How am I going to be able to do it? Am I going to let other people down in the process? What in the world am I even going to do to write about? Are there any other questions that are simmering?

Those are, those are probably the big rocks. For me.

Yeah. So as you look at our time here together, what are you wanting to resolve for yourself in the midst of this tug of war?

So one thing that I do know is that tensions are just a part of life, and I'm not sure if I can resolve it. Uh, I like that word though. I like— I can have resolve in it. So I think I want, like, I want a resolve that I would come away from this conversation with, like a resolution resolve. That says there will be tension. It won't always be perfect and pretty, and it's an invitation for me to, to walk my talk about communicating where I am, expectations, what I need, what I can give, you know, it's to not lose that connection with my team. I think that's, you know, and that spills out to not lose connection with my husband and, you know, my personal life as well. But I'd really like to focus on, I think, that resolve or intention about how I want to walk through what I know is going to kind of pull at me in different directions, if that makes sense.

You've got kind of the two-pronged approach with resolve. It's the resolve you want to have for yourself, but also resolving, resolving your approach. When you use the word resolve, what does that mean for you in this context?

It, uh, I can feel the word maybe better than having words for the word. It, it feels like I'm solid or stable and grounded, um, or that I have ways to get back to being stable and grounded. And not wobbly, uh, and not second-guessing. And not, you know, if I start second-guessing, I can get my little narrative going that you didn't do that well enough, or maybe you should have done this, or whatever. So some kind of like, um, I'm just making a note here, something that makes me feel more grounded is how I'm using that word.

So you're wanting to come away with something that grounds you in the midst of all of these unknowns of jumping into the thesis?

Yes. And, and especially as it relates to the, the human relation piece of it with my team.

What are your concerns with jumping into this and your team?

I want to be there for them, with them, together. I want to, I want to support as needed. I want to carry my weight. I don't want to put extra pressure on them or cause extra stress for them. Yeah.

What is carry your weight? There's a lot of weight in this conversation.

There's a lot of weight in this conversation, yes. And it does feel heavy, right? I guess carry my weight. You know, that's— that probably stems way back to my agrarian upbringing where, you know, you were just independent and did your part and you know, made sure that you didn't let anybody down. And I, I think I have this story that, that says, I'm gonna start this thesis and I'm gonna let people down.

Um, yeah. That, that's a huge, huge weight, letting, letting people down. How does that impact you, carrying that?

Um, I think that I, I get sort of off focus with not doing the things that are most important. Um, like, I can, I can have a tendency to kind of get into, like, jump in and I don't like rescue mode. I'm not quite sure that that's the right word, but instead of, instead of actually, you know, touching base with somebody and saying, this is where I am, this is what I need to get done, this is you know, relating, let's say, to the thesis. And instead of saying that and kind of renegotiating some agreement about what I can do or can't do, I have this tendency to just jump in and try to do everything. And then I end up not doing everything well and probably robbing, you know, team members of the ability to have their own piece of the puzzle in a way, if that makes sense.

So what do you want to do with this weight?

I don't want to carry it. It doesn't feel good. Um, I want to be aware of it. And just know that I've got patterns that I would like to kind of shape, let go of, shape differently, you know, recognize that it's an opportunity to, um, to grow and lead differently, be different. Yeah, and I want to be aware of it before it starts snowballing, and then I, I get into some kind of a routine and I don't even realize that I'm doing it, and then by the end of the day I'm too tired to— or I look back and think, did I really do what was most important?

Kind of.

If that weight wasn't there How, how would you see yourself differently going into this thesis?

Probably, um, The word buoyant comes to mind, but probably more able to, um, like see possibilities more easily. Like, I, I think I'd be able to see things that I could do to continue to make it lighter. Like when I, when I'm carrying this weight, it's so heavy that I don't even see, I'm not even aware that I'm not seeing things, if that makes sense. And so I feel like if I were lighter, I would just immediately be more creative, probably be more connected with the, the team I guess that's what comes to mind.

Even as you say those words, buoyant, lighter, more creative, there's a different, a different energy that comes through in those. What are you sensing?

So it's like I know that, but getting there is not— it's doing it is a different story. Like, I know that I'd be better. I know that I'd be lighter. I know that I would, you know, not carry all of the— this just mucky narrative going on in my head. Um, and yet making that shift is sometimes easier said than done. And then I— then, then I say, Susan, you teach this stuff, right? You should, you should be able to do this. And then I— well, you know, and then I go— then I have compassion for realizing that it's easier said than done.

What do you think is the real challenge with letting go of this weight of caring at all?

Probably massively intertwined neural connections that say you should be able to carry it all. And, um, you know, I just think it's years of, of patterning, and I, I have re-unconstructed, deconstructed, reconstructed a lot of that. And I've made a lot of progress in that, and I, I think it's just the simplicity of saying I've got to keep making progress. And now this project has come up with the thesis, and it's really going to require that I continue to make progress. So it just feels like, wow, big new chapter of getting to practice what, you know, how I, how I want to continue to evolve and change.

So really, this is much bigger and deeper than the thesis. It's this laboratory to step into what you teach of Letting go of the weight.

Yeah.

What is the new perspective about that weight of doing it all well?

So immediately one of the concepts from my program comes to mind, which is good enough. So, um, the concept of good enough being that you cannot have perfection in change or any number of things, but, um, I think that's the perspective that it's not a brand new perspective, but it's a perspective that's helped me. Um, I even have— it's out of reach at the moment, but I have like a 5x7 little note card that just has big black letters, "Good enough." Um, and again, it's easier said than done. It's like, I know it in my head But getting my heart to feel it sometimes is— that's funny. Maybe there's like a good enough for my heart or something. I don't know.

There seems to be meaningful emotion just as you talk through giving yourself this space, what is that emotion of good enough for your heart?

Uh, I think that's compassion. I think it's, it's definitely like a human, a humanity. The word humanity comes to mind. Common humanity, compassion. To get out of that identity of excel, excel, excel, be perfect, be perfect, do it right, don't disappoint people, and get towards— like, I think I just— this idea is coming to me is that I'm going to disappoint more people, including myself, if I, if I don't change, if I keep trying it, if I try to do everything and I don't, um, if I don't have some, some grounding around the realities of the tension that are going to be associated with this project. There's something there that I think is important.

Staying the same will cause more disappointment.

Yeah, I like that idea. Yeah, and I don't— yeah, I don't want to stay the same, you know. That's I cherish evolving. It's one of our core values at the company, right, is evolving.

Um, yeah.

So what's becoming clearer for you about how you want to see yourself going into this thesis?

It's about— I think the good enough idea is a piece of it, but I think the other is just really having a curiosity about Who am I disappointing? Um, like, I'm going to disappoint myself if I don't change. I talk about this— I don't want to disappoint the team, but I think I'm going to feel for myself disappointed if I don't continue to, you know, make some of these shifts. I think that's, that's it.

How does the compassion you mentioned relate to that disappointment piece?

That's a good question. It's funny, it's like, uh, I want to have the right answer. I also just flashed on a reminder of, hey, people are listening to this. I was kind of really deep in the conversation. I just went out here like, I should find a good answer for that. Um, and I think the reality is I don't know how the disappointment and the compassion sort of interconnect, but I believe they do. And because I just had this flash of self-awareness, you know, people are listening. I think the most honest answer is I don't know but I want to know and I want to think about it.

Your authenticity and vulnerability, even in having this conversation, is so profound, and you're finding your path to be compassionate with yourself. In this big, big adventure that you're on. As you think about good enough going into this thesis journey, how do you want to incorporate that perspective going forward?

Okay, so I just flashed on something. Um, the— some of the, the clearest idea that I have right now about the topic actually has to do with a balancing of how someone leads. Um, and so it just struck me that, like, if I could use some of the concepts I'm thinking about writing about for the thesis if I could balance them. And, and balance to me means that sometimes you're going to have this, sometimes you're going to have that, um, as opposed to it's always perfect here and it's always perfect there. Um, and so, and, and the, the balance is just, you know, the obvious dilemma that every leader has with, I've got to connect with people, and I've got to get stuff done. And with those two concepts, if I could balance the recognition that it's not always going to be perfect with people and it's not always going to be perfect with getting the stuff done, um, and, and in a way, somehow it's a little muddy in my, my thinking just yet, But in a way, I think it's going to be kind of like a representative of what I'm actually writing about. It's like I almost get to live it, what I'm writing about, in some ways.

Your own learning laboratory of what is it like to be a leader balancing caring for the team with your own needs and responsibilities.

Yeah, and, and you know what needs to be accomplished. Um, so I think there's some meat to that. That feels like I can do something with that. Um, Like I talked about, it's interesting, I talked about wanting to be grounded, and it— and I think to myself, but when you're walking, there's like this fluidness. It's this step, that step, it's this balance, that balance. And maybe grounded is really just balancing. I think there might be something there for me to to, to think about balancing.

How would, how would balanced feel as you head into this journey?

Movement is the word that's coming to mind. Like, um, I don't want to get frozen, I think, is the thing, because I can get frozen if I, you know, start to feel overwhelmed. So like a movement And, you know, maybe it's just if I think about the balance or the movement, the fluidity of taking steps and walking, I could maybe just tell myself, where are you now? Like, what are your balance— you know, how balanced are you? What do you need to focus on now? Or what needs attention over here? As opposed to trying to get attention on everything all at once. Yeah, which is impossible for me and anybody.

So when we began the conversation, your, your focus was on a lot of these external pieces. How will it impact my team? Will I be able to keep all the balls in the air? And this balance you're talking about, it's almost like there's an internal calibration of where, where do I focus right now to keep the momentum.

Yeah, I love that phrase, the internal calibration. I love that because if I'm internally calibrated, balanced, fluid, whatever I'm going to have a much greater capacity to show up with others. Yeah, I like that.

As we wrap up here, anything else you need to have that internal calibration?

For me, it's usually some sort of like a simple, like, visual. I know whether it's— I'm seeing one of those silly games in my head. Not silly games, but, um, they're those, like, there's like a whole bunch of little, like, 5 different little balls and they're all on these strings and you do you take one and, and you get it going and it, you know, makes the other ones go, and there, it— there's just a fluidity or a momentum because one thing has been moved, the other things move. Um, and I, I think if I— I'd like to find a picture of that or even get that little game, um, because it makes me feel like if I move one piece, I can trust that other pieces are moving even though I may not feel like I'm specifically paying attention to those pieces. That makes sense in my, my, my heart.

Yeah, you know, that movement is happening in the big picture.

Yeah, even if I can't clearly, clearly see it, you know, right there in the moment. I don't have to be omniscient. I don't have to be all-seeing. And do my, my little piece.

There's tremendous courage and compassion in your approach, that you are accomplishing this huge project and yet giving yourself that space in the midst of it to just focus on what's right in front of you.

Yeah, thank you. And learn something in the process.

What are you taking away as your nugget from this conversation?

That coaching is just such a beautiful discipline, you know, to, to give people the space to think and ponder and notice. Um, so I do truly feel like, like coming up with that image is going to help me quite a bit. Um, and that, you know, the, the internal calibration piece starts inside. So I'm really holding on to that, and the rest of it, I can trust that the pieces are moving.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Thank you for sharing yourself with all of us today.

I'm grateful that I did. All right, so we will conclude our session here, and we've got about 7 minutes to do some quick debrief. So I'm sure there were comments in the text there, and I was— I think I glanced over and saw one, and I thought, that's going to distract me if I keep looking over there, so I just didn't keep looking over there. But I would love to hear, Carissa, you your thoughts on some of the competencies that you were being proactive about from the coaching perspective. And I do see a question out here, so let me also kind of look over there, but if you'd like to answer that to start with, anything that was coming to mind for you that stood out as a starting point.

Yeah, you brought such a juicy topic with many layers to it and really staying in that curious space so that you could explore what was most important to you. And in that setting the agenda phase, being able to pull out those different themes and offer them back to you and let you determine what is it that I really want to focus on in this. And the beautiful thing is multiple of those themes circle back at different points in the conversation, and you came up with a potential topic as well as this is really about my own growth in this thesis project as well. But one of the competencies that really stood out was the 7.1 marker of exploring the client's current thinking. This concept of weight came up multiple times, and what's the current perspective on that? And then what, what difference would it make if that weight wouldn't be there? And to be able to explore that perspective as well.

Yeah, yeah.

I'm just kind of— I can see now some of the comments. I'm scrolling through some of these. There is a question about if you'd had more time, would you have visited these last questions, concepts of balance, internal tensionality, calibration through the body, perhaps via mindfulness or embodiment exercise?

Those were such rich terms. Yes, if there had been more time that would have been worth unpacking more to have Susan really identify for herself what do those mean, what are the emotions connected with them, and even for her to identify what's really most important to focus on as she creates this internal system for herself.

Okay, uh, and then they ask, um, would you— Susan, would you have been open to close your eyes, be guided to feel the question rather than think about them, to answer from a different intelligence center? I absolutely would have been open to that. Um, and yeah, so hard to say because we're doing it live. How much that influences what we do or don't do. But yeah, I certainly would have been open to that. Um, let's see, other questions? Are you seeing any specific questions, Carissa, too?

Um, we answered the questions that were on there. What was most impactful for you as a client, Susan?

The comments that came back, and sometimes you used my language and sometimes you had a different phrase that may have been your language, the— and the pieces that you fed back to me, somehow it felt like a chain link. It it absolutely gave me a chance to see things just a little bit differently. Like, and I don't need a sweeping 180 kind of new perspective. Sometimes just give me a millimeter more, that helps calibrate that. And so I think the fact that you didn't try to fix it for me You listened. There were questions for me within your responses, um, that helped me really own it and dig a little bit deeper about what, what really is happening. Because I, I honestly, I came to the conversation knowing that I've got this tension that I'm concerned about. I don't want to disappoint people, how I'm going to do it all. I knew that much. I did not know. So the thing that came on totally online new for me was that, like, that whatever the heck that game is called, like, I'm gonna move a piece and it's not just about me. Other people are moving pieces. If I just keep that fluidity, the balance of, of going here, you know, back and forth between people and project that, that, that's a big thing that, that really came online for me in a deeper way.

There was definitely exploration and discovery taking place where you were pausing to step back and see things from the 10,000-foot view. We weren't looking at the nitty-gritty of the project, but really Exploring how do you want to approach this as a person, as a leader, and that gives rise to questions that are the type of questions that keep on asking.

Yeah, let's see. And then there's a comment here, uh, important to offer the client with non-attachment. Yeah, I felt like you were very non-attached MCC is absolutely client-led. Focusing on techniques or tools, we do fail, and I didn't feel like that that was happening.

So following the client's processing.

Yeah, and I think the other thing that was reflective of the MCC is being able to see the bigger picture. You just mentioned that as well, but it's, it's easy to come in and think it's— we're talking about this thesis and how to navigate that little piece of it. And at the MCC level, you broadened it to this is about identity, this is about who I really am, and I am, you know, where my evolving is. So somebody says, I appreciate your presence and trust in the client. Yeah, I felt like you you knew I had it in me, um, to figure out what that next piece was going to be. So that felt good. I didn't feel judged, even though I felt vulnerable. So good. All right, um, so we are at the conclusion of our time, and we'll try to go back and visit some of those comments and answer anything that may not have gotten answered today. Again, I just want to thank you, Carissa. Coaching is an intimate conversation, and to do that here with other people listening, that, that takes quite a bit of courage yourself. Your, your own business name, Courageous Leaders. Um, and so much appreciation for that. Much appreciation for the people that joined us and added a number of comments today. Um, tomorrow we're going to be talking about something that you saw Carissa demonstrating, which was Creating Space and Giving Silence and Space into the Conversation and the importance of that. And we'll have that conversation with another MCC coach, a member of our faculty, is Edward McDonald, who does that beautifully. So hope you can join us tomorrow on that. All right, happy International Coaching Week! And if you'd like to find out more about the academies, we'll be, I think, being able to post these on YouTube, and there's also on LinkedIn, and you can visit us at our website as well, theacademies.com. Thank you, everyone.

Thank you all. Happy International Coaching Week.

Yeah.