The MCC Journey | The Academies

Welcome. Hello. Greetings. Welcome to the Academy's Facebook Live event. And we are celebrating International Coaching Week and the ICF, International Coaching Federation's theme this year is Explore Your Potential. And so, as you are likely aware, the Academy provides training for coaches and leaders who want to use coach approach principles to explore and expand their potential. And part of that process in exploring your potential is thinking about where do I want to be as a coach down the road. And so our topic today is the MCC journey, and we are here live with a number of our internal team and instructors. Um, for those who may not know me, I'm Susan Britton. I am founder and president of the academies. I've been in this field for 20+ years. I love coaching. I love changing minds for good. I love doing it from a neuroscience-based foundation. And I love seeing people get coaching and then therefore the, the ripple effect that happens when the people that they lead, serve, coach also receive coaching. So today our conversation, as I said, MCC journey, and we've asked our team members who have that elusive credential, the MCC, Master Certified Coach, to join us. To talk a little bit about their journey, what it was like, why they would go to the lengths to do that, because so many people sort of feel like this is an elusive sort of difficult thing to get. Like, do I really want to go that far? Should I really put in the time and effort to do that? And so we're going to have a just very frank and spirited conversation about that journey. Let me introduce those who have been able to join us. So first we have Brittany McDonald, Master Certified Coach, and she is our new accounts manager. Thank you for waving. Make sure everybody knows which one Brittany is. Yeah. She also maintains an external coaching practice. Clarissa Gay is also a Master Certified Coach. She's on the Academy's faculty and is a coaching educator, mentor coach, and she is president of Courageous Leaders. James Beeman, Master Certified Coach, was one of our first faculty members with the Academies. How many years now, James? Like 10 plus, I think.

We'll go with that.

Yes, we'll go with that. Mentor Coach. And he is president of Clear Career in his external practice. And then Edward McDonald, Master Certified Coach, is also one of our faculty members, and he practices both neurotherapy and coaching. And with the Neurotherapy of Colorado Springs, some of you may have gotten to join the conversation I had with he and Chris Edwards yesterday, about neuroscience. If you might have missed that, find it on the YouTube channel for the academies, and that's quite a fascinating conversation. I myself am on the MCC journey and have audio tapes in the queue to be evaluated, so I, I too understand a bit about what this journey is about. So just to make sure that we're all clear, setting the stage, most people are aware the ICF has a lot of credibility with the, the world in terms of the credentials that it offers. And there are many organizations that want to see those ICF credentials behind your name when you're going and offering yourself and your coaching services. There are the 3 layers of credential— ah, I can speak— there are the 3 levels of credential. There's the ACC, Associate Certified Coach, PCC, Professional Certified Coach, and then MCC, Master Certified Coach. Each has a different and higher level of training hours and coaching hours with your clients. And sometimes people start out really committed to getting certainly their ACC, and some think, then I'm going to go ahead and get my PCC. And yet there are a lot of coaches who, for that final level, it either seems like a nice-to-have as opposed to a need-to-have. There's just a lot of meaning tied up in that MCC. So would love to talk with Brittany, James, Edward, Carisa about your experiences. So conversational, let's just start out. What prompted you to pursue the MCC credential and sort of what surprised you about reaching that pinnacle? Who would like to go first?

Well, as a recovering perfectionist, I knew from the very beginning of my ICF coach training that I wanted, because of my own sense of wanting to be excellent at what I did and because I'm an avid learner, I knew from the beginning that I wanted to do that. And I could also see as a client of coaching at the time with my interactions between PCC and MCC coaches, that there was a little bit of a difference of a level of listening that they were able to do. And while certainly a milestone, I think for me MCC stands for maximizing my curiosity and compassion, because when I remember to remain curious with my clients and even myself, as I point to myself, that's when the best outcomes will occur for them as they explore and unlock their own potential.

That growth value definitely resonates with, with me as well, but I wanted a process that was going to push me to keep growing as a coach and not get stale. And boy, a growth process, it sure was more than I even expected, but Also the depth that it brings to the coaching conversation. Going through coach training from multiple schools, I mean, the academies was some of my first classes. You learn all of these structures and tools, and one of the surprises for me about MCC was it was almost setting aside a lot of the, um, you know, tools, techniques, um, rubrics, if you might say, and really learning to be present with the client. So in some ways it felt scary because it was like, what's the roadmap to this? And getting to just be in the moment with the client.

Well, I'll jump in. I resonate with James a bit, and he was my first coach trainer and coach mentor, so I might have picked up some of those learning excellence vibes, but I also brought a lot of my own, I think. But for me, I fell in love with coaching so thoroughly and so deeply very early on in the process of being able to coach others that I have said almost since the beginning, I'm going to be a coach for the rest of my life. And I happened to get into coaching pretty early, in my early 20s, so I had the opportunity to be able to say, hey, the rest of my life is, is a good bit of time ahead of me, and so why not? Like, why wouldn't I aim for the highest credential if I'm going to be doing this? So I did, and it was quite the journey to get there, but I think in terms of what surprised me about reaching that goal is how much it really, it doesn't, there was a moment of like, aha, I did it, right? There's, there is that pinnacle moment, but it really feels so much more like the starting line feels so much more like now there's just this opportunity to go deeper and to, to play with it, right? Like I've worked so hard to like align my coaching with certain standards and to grow myself to be able to coach at that level. But now what? Now the world's open. Now I can figure out what kind of coach I want to be with this credential and with these tool sets and skill sets and mindsets. And how do I go from here? Like, it really felt more like a starting point than an ending point.

So much of what all three of you have said resonates. There was the frustration and challenge that Carissa mentioned of like not having a formula for how to coach like an MCC, right? It was, it was a lot of unlearning to coach like an MCC. It was honestly pretty maddening at times how much we had to unlearn to coach at an MCC level. I think when I started out on this journey, It was a lot more egoic than where I ended. I was like, I'm going to be an MCC coach. And when I get my MCC credential, I will sit on my coaching chair, my coaching throne, and people on LinkedIn will throng to me for coaching and I'll have it made. And then I got my MCC credential, right? And then people weren't flocking to me from LinkedIn. But what's really cool is the person that I became along the way was was the fun. James actually said to me years and years and years ago, it's not about becoming like an MCC from a skill point, it's, it's the person you have to become to be an MCC coach. And I think he nailed it when he said that. Um, as the person that I am because of the process, that, that maximizing curiosity and compassion that James talks about, like, it— the process changes you. And you realize that mastery isn't about achieving or attaining something. It's about committing yourself to a never-ending process of learning and growing. And that's really fun. I'm a different person because of it, and for the better. And I think as a result, ego is not the gas in the tank. It's the little fuzzy creature on your shoulder, and you pat it on the head and say, good job, fist bump, we did that. It's a different relationship.

Yeah, and because I too, along with James, I don't think you would mind saying, you know, we've been working on this ourselves for a couple of years, and it's not a fast process. What I've also noticed is that being the head of a coach training organization, that it has also impacted my thoughts about What do brand new coaches need to learn? Not that they have to become MCC out of the gate, and I don't think that's quite possible, and that's okay. And yet at the same time, now that you are at that space of MCC, how do you begin with the end in mind when you see brand new coaches, and what do you do differently um, when you're training in classes with somebody who's brand new, um, from that, that level of experience that you now have?

I think for me it's a lot more focused on the who of coaching. Um, Susan, I probably said it ad nauseam at this point, that skill sets, mindsets, heart set thing. Like, you start learning about coaching and you, you learn basic shapes with words inside. It's wheels of life and matrices and pyramids, and we like our basic shapes in coach training. And then you say, well, I can master these and throw in some open-ended questions and we're good to go on coaching. And then you go a bit further and it's, it's like skills like active listening and powerful questions. And then dig a little deeper and it's, oh, it's about me. And the mindsets I take to coaching and how I show up and the growth mindset and a coaching mindset and the whole competency number 2 from the ICF. Is it 2 or 1? Coaching mindset? It's 2, right? Had a brain blip for a second there. And then you get a little further and it's like, oh, this is about capable, resourceful, and whole and the way I see people and the way I see myself and others. So I think that appreciation for the soul of the people in the conversation is really, it's what it's about, right? It's people. So yeah, the emphasis on the who and not the what or the how.

And I would add on to what Eddie was saying about the who, certainly, but also I've leaned into even in the training, like spending a little bit more time Setting that initial agreement, and that connects with the training but also connects with what we do as coaches, like setting that initial agreement, making sure the conversation— there's clarity around what the client wants, what's significant about it, and not just the surface, what's potentially getting in the way or the gap, but getting to sort of the core thing as Eddie was talking about, the, the who, what's getting in the way for this person, possibly even developmentally. So yeah, that's also important, I think.

Well, and I love, you know, we're talking about the MCC journey. I think for any coach, whether their end goal is MCC or something else, I love to emphasize that it is a journey. And I think a part of that process for myself and what I love to communicate to perhaps new coaches or or coaches just starting out, is you're going to unlearn and learn and unlearn and relearn and learn new things and then unlearn something else. And it's not this straight line from here I am, here's my goal, we're going to get to MCC. It really is, you know, when you're just starting out, I tell coaches, we're going to unlearn a bunch of things. We're going to learn how to turn off the little voice in our heads that's always wanting to jump in and talk. We're going to learn to to stop talking and to just listen. But then we're going to learn active listening, and we're going to learn how to deepen that listening and to be able to ask open, curious questions instead of offering advice. But then as you go further, you might realize that it's not even so much about the question, right? It's more about how do we hold that space, and what is the other person experiencing or learning about themselves in that space? And then as you get comfortable sitting in the space, there's opportunity to Sometimes I don't even get to a question. Like, I'll just be so connected to where the client is, and I'll just offer a comment or I'll acknowledge what they just said. Wow, you have a really great awareness of yourself in this space. And they just take that and run with it before I even get to a question, right? So I started thinking coaching was all about asking questions, and sometimes I'm surprised now at how seldom I ask a question. Like, I don't even get there. 'cause I'm really focused on the listening and the space that we've created. And I think that's just going to continue, right? That, that continue unlearning, relearning, and growing. So I love to tell coaches that at the beginning, like, it's not like you're just gonna figure it out one day and wake up and be like, aha. Like, there will be a lot of aha moments in the coaching journey and the coach training process, but it's also just going to continue to be a lot of learning along the way.

That reminds me, Brittany, that who we are as a person is our most powerful coaching tool. And it's easy to want to pull on all these different resources, but just focusing on being present with the client and you're experiencing their emotions and their mindsets, and just by As you said, walking alongside with them, that's going to guide your intuition in what questions to ask or when to pause. And that's one of the powerful things about coaching. It's as much a growth journey for us as the coach as it is for the client to be that kind of person who can just be present with the client.

Locked up or lost connection.

I think we're all here. You froze.

Was it me that froze?

We heard Carissa loud and clear.

Glad you can be present all the way from France.

I'll blame my Airbnb internet from Paris. It's not working. So thanks for hanging in there with that.

Back off that concept of connection and, and presence and being with for a second. Like, Susan, you and I met a little later in my coaching journey, but the rest of us on this call, like, every single one of you played a pivotal role in my journey as a coach and in that journey to MCC. And I think it connects to the conversation we're having, like, Coaching is all about being with and doing with another person. I can't imagine getting that credential without Brittany, James, Carissa. Like, we've been coaching together for years, and you get that. I know, James, you and Susan have been working together on MCC as well, but like that, that doing with is just so— you can't, you know, you want to go fast, go alone. You want to go far, go together kind of thing. Like, going to an MCC credential is going far. As far as you can go in this field. Couldn't have done it. I would have, I would have said forget it so many times if I hadn't had the friendship, the encouragement, the accountability, the being with, the connection. And I think I also learned some of the valuable connection that I needed to be here by doing it with, right? You do by yourself.

Yeah, I would just add that community is a huge piece of the journey and super proud of our alumni community that is being birthed even as we speak here in a much more formal sense. So looking forward to having that launched. Very soon. I have one more comment on unlearning learning because I think, well, maybe a coach is listening thinking, well, wait a minute, we come to you and you train us these things and now you're going to tell me you have to unlearn something? Can you just tell me right from the beginning?

It's a great business model, isn't it?

And the reality is you train, you get that first step, The curriculum is seeded with some of those concepts like the who and the connection that you will have to really master at the MCC level. What I want to add though is that as a coach, what you are walking alongside your client, or as a leader, you're walking alongside that direct reporter, employee, or a team member, you're asking them to unlearn something if they want to grow. And when you walk through that journey yourself and know what it feels like, to have that uneasiness of, oh gosh, this is something new and I've got to figure out how to land it to be able to move forward. There's an interesting, deep, special connection and level of compassion I think that comes when you have learned that yourself and you can stand with other people, your clients in the process too.

So well said.

I meant to say, and I will go ahead and say, so Rebecca, is manning the Facebook channel right now. So if you have a comment or you have a question that you would like to have answered, she can— if you'll put that in the comments, she can get that to us and we can have, have those answered. Let's see, Brittany, you had some interesting statistics on how many MCCs are out there. So little quiz here. How many You can vote.

I like random numbers. Um, so there's a great ICF fact sheet out there that I found, um, from earlier this year that says there are almost 50,000 people as of February who hold an ICF credential, um, but just 4% of those have the MCC. So just over 2,000 people in the world total have that MCC credential, which, um, is actually, I think, more than double when, um, Edward and I got our credential 4-ish years ago. So it is growing steadily and quickly. And I think, I don't know about you guys, I have been hearing from more and more people who come to the academies and say, I want to be a coach. I want to go through coach training. And also like, yeah, tell me about MCC. What is that like? Let me, let's go for it. Like I'm all in. And I think that's just exposure to more of what coaching is and the power that it has and people being excited to, to go there. Great.

Um, just some practical things like what can people do to prepare? What did you all do to prepare yourself to, to coach at this level? I've already heard some things in terms of it's a journey about myself and my own growth. Um, other practical pieces that you might want to share with folks?

I think the listening to one's own coaching is, could be one of the best tools. And also embarrassments sometimes for myself. Listening and reviewing it as well as having a mentor coach listen to it and review it and then talk about it.

We talked a bit yesterday about metacognition and observing and learning. And I think it really connects to what James just said. You have to be looking at the thing. And understanding what you did. And you can only do that if you listen to yourself coach, or you have somebody else sit with you and assess your coaching. So buddy coaching, mentor coaching, get coaching yourself. Um, I guarantee you all of us have spent thousands of dollars on our own coaching, paying coaches to coach us. And a lot of coaches that I meet, it never really had a coach long term. Get coaching. Receive it. If you really think of like, if it's worth investing in an MCC credential, it's worth investing in coaching.

I would totally echo, get coaching. Absolutely listen to and assess yourself coaching, and also listen to other MCC coaches. So if you can find an MCC coach to experience that level of coaching, or if you can find people who are willing to share recorded sessions. I think I learned the most listening to a wide range of recorded MCC sessions and just realizing how broad, like how broad the range can be in terms of what coaching looks like and still be amazing quality coaching. And yes, I know we have several Susan, you mentioned several recordings and sessions at the Academy. So when you join our coach training, there are plenty of coaches to listen to, including MCC coaches and MCC coaching sessions, which is amazing. I think that's probably one of the most impactful things that I did and experienced for my, my coach training journey.

Another practical piece is diving into the markers and just immersing yourself in them. You really just want them to become a part of you, not in a formulaic way, but they really guide you in what to bring to the coaching conversation. And I remember when I first started my MCC journey just feeling overwhelmed at the number of the markers, the complexity, the nuance. And so even going through them and identifying which ones are strong? Do I have a core foundation? And just even choosing a couple at a time that I was very intentional about diving into and bringing them to a conversation. And that just helped me slowly, layer by layer, add in those different markers to the conversation. And when you think of the markers, it's what does this look like at an MCC level? Because we have the PCC markers, but what really distinguishes MCC is adding the depth to it, the depth of connection, depth of partnership with the client.

The ICF marker training is fantastic for that.

So to conclude, I wonder if folks might have a short response to why is it worth it to go for that credential?

It's an investment in yourself and your own personal growth and development, and I think when we're working with clients, that's exactly what we're asking of them. So to let them know that we've taken ourselves and our profession seriously, we've chosen to do the work and do the growth that we're asking them to do, I think is, is unparalleled.

To ask a coaching question, where do you want to be as a coach 10 years from now? And C, does MCC fit into that?

Kind of along the lines of Carissa, like, I don't know, is it, is it worth it? I don't know that any of us are saying it definitely is or isn't. Is it worth it to you? I don't have the answer to that.

That was where I was going with it, was why might it be important to you? Because I'll tell you, in my own journey, I needed to have a clear why, because there were plenty of times when I wanted to turn around or stop or give up. And it was that why for me that helped me move forward.

Love the why underscoring it and the purpose in that process. Yeah. Well, thank you all for sharing a piece of your professional development journey and who you are and having just an honest conversation around how you have changed your own minds for good through this process. Love that. Join us tomorrow. We are on tomorrow, day 3 of the International Coaching Week, Exploring Your Potential. And because we're talking about potential, our topic for tomorrow is why we keep learning. So that's all of us. We've got several faculty and internal team members that are coming to talk about why we keep learning. I think you might be surprised about what that learning involves. Yes, it certainly involves coaching and coach training, but some of the responses that you'll hear about why people keep learning or some of the things that they do to keep learning range everywhere, everywhere from learning to play the drums to learning new languages in their mid and, you know, 40s, 50s, and beyond. And so it'll be fun to see how they tie that together, how anything from learning the drums to a new language to coaching training impacts their ability to coach and be with people and change minds for good. So join us. Thanks, everyone.

Thank you.